Update: Opera Browser for Linux 170
S7 writes "Opera Software has indicated that it is currently diversifying its browser to accomodate a wider flavour of Linux distributions, not just RedHat and its derivatives. Hope they finish soon!" Yeah, I know Mozilla is going to have wonderful features like instant messenger and changeable themes and I don't know what-all else if and when it ever gets end user-usable, but Opera is a plenty good enough browser for the likes of me; it's fast, compact, simple, and reliable, all of which are software qualities I admire immensely. In fact, the only two things I really miss from Windows are Opera and NoteTab, which is IMO the worlds's finest text processing tool for online journalists. Now that Opera's on its way to Linux, all I need is a Linux version of NoteTab or something like it and I'll be in PC heaven!
New browser (Score:1)
Although netscape really hasn't crash that many times for me.....
Opera Browser for BeOS (Score:1)
Explanation :) (Score:1)
Speed of Slashdot (Score:1)
has anyone else noticed this?
dave
Roblimo (Score:2)
I find that kind of lame, when all of those who post Slashdot stories thus far have seen fit to simply announce the story with a little bit of Slashdot spin, Roblimo thinks everyone needs to hear every last detail of his opinion on the news item on the stories he posts (maybe not all the time, but much more than other posters).
Keep the noise down, Roblimo!
I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla... (Score:2)
Will Opera give distros discounts to bundle Opera with their boxed versions? Will they count on being lighter than Mozilla? How will they differentiate themselves? What can they possibly do that Mozilla can't match?
As much as I like Opera, I wouldn't give much for their chances.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... (Score:2)
In the early days when Netscape and Microsoft first started heading up the bloatware path, Opera had a nice market opportunity, but I think it's been squandered. Nobody's going to pay for a closed-source browser, however spiffy, when there's a reasonable selection of respectable open _and_ closed browsers, all of which are free. It's time the Opera folks started a new project.
- -Josh Turiel
Re:Roblimo (Score:1)
That being said, I certainly have read news postings by him in the past few weeks that have been a bit too long-winded.
Linux needs a modern browser (Score:1)
Regards,
January
Re:Explanation :) (Score:1)
Re:Explanation :) (Score:2)
From the Opera URL listed in the parent:
And besides, you may get something 'free', but then it's mostly 'cheap' and of inferior quality. 'Free' and Opera don't go together - and never will.
The Opera folks clearly don't grok "Free" (speech) software. Just wait 'til mozilla's been out for a year or two--they'll grok then. I may buy a license anyway if I think it will be worthwhile for testing my HTML for compatability, but I don't think Opera will ever become very important unless they free the source. Not because I object to paying for a license, but because I don't think they will be able to keep up with mozilla.
Why I can't support Opera (Score:4)
From their own literature: "Nothing is really 'free'. It is merely subsidized by other products. It is done in the interest of market share and domination, but not necessarily in the interest of the user. "
They further claim that the only reason software is given away free is to "tie in" users to buying software later. To those of us backing free software, this is obviously a gross overgeneralization at best, and complete ignorance of what we stand for at worst.
The following bothers me even more: "And besides, you may get something 'free', but then it's mostly 'cheap' and of inferior quality. 'Free' and Opera don't go together - and never will."
If this is really what they believe, they need to do a little research before they even think about pushing their way into the Linux market.
---
Consult, v. t. To seek another's approval of a course already decided on.
Re:Explanation :) (Score:1)
Re:I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla.. (Score:2)
But they might get some sales merely by being in stores, something Mozilla may not do. Linux users aren't very used to going to stores for software, but new converts from Windows may be different. They could also play the bundle game, with distros, or apps they play well with.
They may also have a shot at the browser market for embedded Linux devices if they are light enough.
I'm attracted to their tables-capable text only browser as well, I don't think Mozilla has done that.
If they want desktop market though, they better get out there well before Mozilla releases officially. Without being buggy. Ouch.
Opera is WINEable (Score:3)
--
Re:Explanation :) (Score:2)
At $17.50 (student price), it's almost worth the hassle of getting rid of the afore mentioned shop button and the netscape communication screen when you fire up netscape's email...
And to think that they spent time adding the shop button instead of fixing bugs... netscape crashes regularly on my machine
And finally, I feel that opera must not be swallowed up by anyone... see what happens when a perfectly good browser gets bought by an on-line service (delays of releases to integrate instant messaging) or an OS company (I'd try using IE for Linux if microsoft developed it).
Too little too late (Score:1)
Before Netscape made their announcement that Mozilla would go open source, Opera, I think, could have had a good chance at becoming the browser of choice for Linux users. There were a lot of people clamoring for a port back then.
However, instead of jumping on it, they made the absurd demand that people pay up before coding even began. Obviously, not many took to this. (The fact that a few did actually shows how desperate people were for a good browser.) If Opera had seized their opportunity, there's a good chance a good portion of us would be using it today. But, history being what it is...
Like you say, they're gonna have a tough time in the face of Mozilla now, as the lizard is just on the threshold of being ready for everyday use. Besides, the fact that Mozilla is free/open source software gives it a huge edge, and Opera doesn't appear to be budging on that issue. (Not that I blame them, since the browser is their only revenue. Of course, if nobody uses it, they'll have trouble getting money whether it's closed or open.)
Latest Mozilla quite useable (Score:1)
NoteTab for Linux (Score:2)
Amen to NoteTab (Score:1)
A unix version would be greatly appreciated. And don't talk to me about EMACS! EMACS might be good for solving the Towers of Hanoi, or as a LISP platform, or for whatever new feature that they've piled on the heap, but it certainly isn't lightweight like NoteTab.
Waiting (Score:2)
Attention Opera Software: stop announcing new projects and just port the damn thing already. Geez. How can a company diversify a product that doesn't even exist yet? As an aside, there's an old joke about Microsoft promises. The punch line is "My husband's a Microsoft developer and he just sits at the end of the bed and tells me how great it's gonna be when I get it." Sound familiar?
directed more towards IE (Score:1)
opera is cool (Score:1)
Re:Linux needs a modern browser (Score:1)
NoteTab clone for linux:) (Score:2)
Works wicked nicely for me, and i've had pleasantly few problems with it:)
-blarg
Shameless NoteTab plug (Score:1)
I've used it as the ideal HTML editor for a long time, just downloaded the LaTeX2e clipbook libraries and it's good to see how well NoteTab and dvi viewer from the MIKTeX distribution work together. :)
In support of Opera (Score:1)
I don't think that this should have been posted as a story, as it s not news for nerds. I also don t think we should all team upand criticize something for not being open or free, when there is no free & stable alternative yet. Just my 2 yen.
Opera will never be a big player (Score:3)
1) Their HTML rendering is quite lame. It doesn't render most simple HTML correctly, so things look 'weird' compared to Navigator/IE. If they can't even get that right, they've got no chance.
2) The interface to the program is, well, 'weird'. It's not intuitive; it's way too complex and hard to configure the way most people are used to browsers working (and yes, I realize some people may not like the way Navigator/IE work interface-wise, but that's what people are used to).
3) It costs money. Duh. Remember how Navigator started losing the browser war in the first place?
And lastly, c'mon, the name of the thing! The only thing worse than Opera is Country & Western!
Linux needs a new browser (Score:1)
So anyone want to take up the call? To make JUST a graphical browser and not a full featured internet (cr)application?
Magnwa
Re:Amen to NoteTab (no, Nedit...) (Score:1)
Nedit is light, know html, and is very configurable. I love it. I've never tried the Windows app, but if you are looking for a killer unix X11 editor, nedit is excellent. Try it.
Opera - I'll believe it when I see it (Score:2)
Well, a few kept promises would be a good thing, I think.
I give up, and will simply stick with Netscape for now.
Re:Explanation :) (Score:1)
Will it do PNG files? (Score:1)
I probably will never use Opera; if I need pages tested with it, I get a net.friend to look at them and report back.
Besides, Communicator 4.7, despite its "Shop" button staring at me, has not crashed yet.
--
Re:New browser (Score:1)
Opera isn't a new browser. It's been around for windows for at least 3 or 4 years. It's small (2MB), fast, configurable. It does follow the standards.
The only setback is that you've got to pay for it. But, I gladly fork out $35 or whatever the price was for a browser as good as Opera.
--
Cross-platform concerns (Score:1)
Will this "diversification" include any hardware architecture besides x86-PC? Will it include any Unix other than Linux? The Opera web page says that they are "experimenting" with FreeBSD and Linux/sparc support. When will we see the results, and why such a small range of platforms?
The advantages of free/open software go beyond cost, stability, and features. Nearly every major open software project (with a few notable exceptions, such as FreeBSD) is portable to a wide variety of hardware and software systems. I don't deny that commercial software has certain pros, but almost all of it has one huge disadvantage which completely cancels out any of those advantages. Closed software for Linux is fine, as long as it is for Linux, and not just for Linux/x86, or RedHat Linux, etc.
Can I install Wordperfect 8 on my PowerPC 603e box? How about Opera? [No; neither the BeOS or Linux ports have been compiled for PPC.] Heck even free (beer) closed-source projects---like the MIT Scheme interpreter, which runs on Linux and NetBSD---are distributed in x86 binary form only.
I don't have an Intel box, so I haven't even had the chance to test these programs. In the meantime, I've gotten along just fine with free alternatives. With open-source software, I don't need the maintainers to develop on my specific platform; I can simply compile myself from code if no binaries are available. In the rare case that there is a problem, I can work with the authors to fix it.
I applaud anyone bringing software to free operating systems. But until they unlearn their old habits from growing up in the Wintel duopoly, they will never compete with open source software.
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
Quick replies to your three points...
CT
Re:Explanation :) (Score:1)
Heh, You've not tried Opera I guess. Opera is small, fast
--
Opera? More like Roseanne singing. (Score:2)
As far as I'm concerned, Opera is nowhere near the browser that Netscape/Mozilla is and is only getting recognition because they're an 'alternative'. When they concentrate on making web browsing as painless as their competitors, then they'll have a product they can market.
Re:I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla.. (Score:1)
Ever tried Opera for windows? After installation the entire thingie (without cache) took 2MB. It opens in a second, the cache is extremely configurable
--
[...] So? (Score:1)
2.) Eh, it's different, but it's not like it's absurdly difficult. It still has back/foward buttons and all, they're just... smaller...
3.) Yep. I agree... that's why I'm not using it right now. I would pay money for it, actually, but I don't have any right now.
I'm not sure what direction they're going to go for Linux (if it's as straight a port as they can do of 3.60/Windows, YESSSS!!!), but (as much as the Opera people might like it that way) I don't think Opera is meant to be "God's next browser". It's "the alternative", sort of what Linux is. Linux has enough hype behind it that it's going farther than that, but one can't say so much for Opera... That doesn't make it a bad alternative. As long as it exists, those of us who don't want a browser that wastes code on things as varied as washing the dishes will be relatively happy. At least, if we can afford it. Otherwise, we'll hope the next version of KFM is a doozy...
(Note: The above opinions are not necessarily that of the author... he wasn't meant to post stuff right after he got up...
Re:Linux needs a new browser (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah... (Score:1)
Linux needs lots of good software, both free and proprietary. Every good product like Opera that becomes available for Linux makes it a more viable platform for business and home desktops.
Re:All Other Browsers Are Hopeless? (Score:2)
No, I don't think all other browsers are doomed to failure. Star Office, though, is free (as in beer), and the browser also is also bundled as part of a larger product. As long as people keep using Star Office, the browser can ride on the coat tails of the suite.
KDE is open source, which means that as long as somebody, somewhere is interested in it, it can continue to be used and updated. This is not the case with Opera. If the company goes under, gets bought out, or decides the Linux product isn't profitable, development stops even if it has a core of devoted users.
Opera, being payware in a market where people are used to getting their browsers gratis, has a steep uphill battle. It can't just be a little better in order to thrive. It has to be a LOT better. With the slimming down, modulization, and standards adherence of Mozilla, that's going to be a tough bill to fill.
I don't think all other browsers will die out or cease to be developed, but those that are proprietary and require a fee for use will be hard pressed to survive and make money.
Re:NoteTab for Linux (Score:1)
However I suspect that someone will get a X11 NoteTab clone long before I really master vi...
Roblimo... (Score:3)
Netscape will be themeable but that's just a spin off of their XUL user interface language. The fact that all the interfaces are written in XUL means that it can be easily themed as well as customising the user interface to the way you want.
As for integrating Instant messaging with email. No one at Mozilla.org said that and even if Netscape does do that you can easily get a copy that wouldn't have this feature.
Mozilla is here now (although in pre-alpha form). You can't see a current build of Opera on Linux so I believe Mozilla will be along sooner rather than later. Even if you don't like Mozilla their rendering engine is good and someone can use it as a base for another browser with a different interface.
If Opera had started porting (although to be fair they didn't have much money when they started) to other operating systems before the Mozilla announcement I believe they would have got a good share of the market but now their browser is likely to follow behind Mozilla and so is unlikely to succeed unless they can offer something special.
--
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:3)
I really hope you believe that every software for linux should be 'gratis'. There are lots of non-free software available for unix / linux. Opera will be an addition to this.
Linux will never become a big hit, if we (the linux users) demand that every piece of software for this OS should be free. We need companies like Adobe to make programs for us -- so that more webdesigners move to linux. Don't give me the stuff about gimp - since gimp its current state cannot compete with commercial alternatives for windows.
The point is - for the commercial vendors to support linux, they need to make a profit. And to make a profit, they need to sell software. At least they think so. They won't bite on RMS hook and start making Free Software and sell support and so on. They want to sell their software.
I greet Opera Software welcome to the linux market, and I look forward to buying their browser when it does become available.
--
Re:Waiting (Score:1)
The developers of the linux version are diversifying it so that it's not dependent on one particular linux distro.
That's how.
--
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
Yeah, they follow the standards - and therefore they are lame. Learn to code html, and Opera will be your friend. I promise.
2) The interface to the program is, well, 'weird'. It's not intuitive; it's way too complex and hard to configure the way most people are used to browsers working (and yes, I realize some people may not like the way Navigator/IE work interface-wise, but that's what people are used to).
The interface is *great*. You can have multiple windows in one instance of the browser, you resize them inside the 'main' thingie. It really can't get any better. And 'hard to configure'? It took me 15 minutes to learn, configure and start using it -- coming straight from netscape (3.x at the time).
3) It costs money. Duh. Remember how Navigator started losing the browser war in the first place?
They've got to earn money some way. Netscape is dying. InterNet explorer has won the regular browser war. Opera on the other hand is making lots of money, and they are winning market share slowly but steadily.
--
Re:I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla.. (Score:2)
Re:I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla.. (Score:1)
Re:Opera is WINEable (Score:2)
If you've gotten it to work, details would be appreciated.
Joe
The advantages of Opera (Score:1)
I only have to type "a", and it goes to Altavista.
In addition to www.*.com, it searches www.*.net, www.*.org, or whatever you want it to, in your prefered order.
I can select if it should load and display pictures, only display already loaded pictures, or not display them at all. Very nice when I'm using a modem.
I often order stuff online, and when filling out address info, all I have to do is select the right fields, and paste in the info
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
However, Opera certainly do need to sort out their attitude. It does not make sense to insult the platform you are porting to and expect people to buy your product.
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
Linux does not need closed source programs as much as you say. To have popular desktop operating system, you not need $100000000 3d apps, or photoshop, or some other funny apps becuase most people don't need them. Linux need Office suites, web browsers, e-mail clients, and it already has those, and it will have free+open source versions available by mid 2000. In fact, the only closed source apps that Linux needs are games. As of now, there aren't many good and finished oss games (yes, the card games that come with the desktop envirements are fun, but I am talking about glitzy games like Q3).
Ohh yea, gimp can compete with some commercial software, like PSP.
Re:NoteTab for Linux (Score:1)
Failing that, you could always use VMware.
I can't imagine NoteTab being so complicated that WINE couldn't run it.
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
MDI, among other things, obscures all the information I want to have access to in my other windows. In the broken windows interface, MDI is almost necessary, or the taskbar becomes unusable, but this ISN'T WINDOWS, last time I checked, and I won't use a product that uses MDI. Star Office is right out, and if Opera continues with this bad bad course of action, their browser is something that will never be on my system.
Why should I pay to have the information in my other windows covered? I can live with Netscape's problems if Opera is going to make such a stupid mistake.
Aliasing bookmarks?! OOOOH! (Score:1)
(Maybe KDE hotkeys?)
Re:I'd like to see how they compete with Mozilla.. (Score:1)
I'm attracted to their tables-capable text only browser as well, I don't think Mozilla has done that.
I thought that was interesting as well. But I get the impression that it was just a toy one of the programmers hacked together. It sounded like their marketing people (if opera is that large of a company) couldn't wrap their heads around a piece of text-mode software.
Re:Opera? More like Roseanne singing. (Score:1)
Opera is exactly what I expect from a browser. It is small, fast, configurable, W3C-recommendation compliant (more so than either IE5 or Netscape 4.6), and reliable. The ease of use, a nebulous term at best, is excellent. Others in my office have downloaded the shareware edition after witnessing my use and some of them have continued to use it.
I was, and continue to be, willing to pay for this in the face of free alternatives for the simple reason that the free browsers do not meet my criteria. If Mozilla matches up, I'll use it. If it doesn't, I'll drop it. When the Linux edition of Opera is released I will test it and if it's as polished as the Windows edition, I will fork over my money and be glad that someone wrote a browser with someone like me in mind.
To continue this Offtopic thread.. (Score:1)
Actually, I've found a distinct increase in noise lately. Most of the articles are pretty boring (AFAIC), and I often find myself equally disinterested in those articles which accumulate a modest 50 or so posts and those which acquire well over a couple hundred or so.
I have noticed a few comments to the effect that this "Roblimo" person has been posting an incredibly large amount of articles the past few days, but I'm not sure if that causes this paragraph to correlate to the first.. (and I wonder why the moderators don't appreciate my more-than-slightly off sense of humor..)
And strangely enough, I haven't really noticed any marked increase in posts. In fact, I've gotten quite bored the past few days waiting for an interesting topic, or even a topic I feel is worth talking about to come up.. usually becoming rather.. disappointed.. Maybe I'm just bitter because all of my story ideas get shot down (not that I don't understand why with most of them.. hee hee..). ;)
Oh, um, wait.. "the past few weeks"? Ah, sorry.. My attention span isn't generally that long. I thought we were talking about the past few hours or something. =L
Re:wherez the code? (Score:1)
Re:Too little too late (Score:1)
I was ready to pay before coding began, but I just about begged them to consider using the gtk/gnome libraries for the browser. A couple years passed, and then they said they were using qt.
I now have qt on my system, but still would have liked having a gtk version.
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
You need to understand something. You need to understand that Opera only is available for Windows at the moment. And, what good windows-software is free
--
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
Not a good example, since Quake3Arena will be released on Linux (and win32,mac). But games are still why I boot win98. Check out the free demo of Madden2k if you want to be blown away. I play about 5-10 free demos a week, and I can't think of 5-10 major games that are out in Linux. Add the 3 click from net to gaming experience that you get with win and Linux has a loooooong way to go as a gaming platform.
Re:The advantages of Opera (Score:1)
(For an example, check out my listed webpage: if the top-left most PNG block doesn't come out as purple on transparent, it's bugged.)
Also, anyone have any ideas on how commercial it'll be? It's hardly as though I *want* to pay to use something, on linux, but if it's very VERY good and the only one in its field, I'll consider it...
Open Source?
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
You don't get the point. Regular Joe want to make his own homepage. Then he want something that can compete (or preferrable the program itself) with his pirated Dreamweaver -- that he can (pirate and) use in Linux.
Regular Joe don't want to relearn all the programs. He want to be able to swap to linux, and have all the software he normally uses available to him in the new OS.
And - GIMP can compete with PSP -- but it cannot compete with photoshop.
--
Re:ROBLIMO SUCKS ASS!!!! (Score:1)
Excellent ... a careful and reasoned argument.
I must say I am starting to agree with you, I am starting to think Cmdr Taco has gone mad what with the buyout and all and his new handle is Roblimo (yup Rob in a Limo).
CC
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
Actually, I suspect that game engines will be moving into open developement sooner or later as well.
The problem with games is that they are so much more than they code. They need a story, lots of artwork, motion capture or video clips, music, sounds etc, all of which can usually not be produced by someone with gcc and emacs (though, maybe as the open source philosophee proliferates in non-tech society...)
Provides for some good question to put to Carmack tomorrow.
-
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
I on the other hand, totally disagree.
MDI, among other things, obscures all the information I want to have access to in my other windows. In the broken windows interface, MDI is almost necessary, or the taskbar becomes unusable, but this ISN'T WINDOWS, last time I checked, and I won't use a product that uses MDI. Star Office is right out, and if Opera continues with this bad bad course of action, their browser is something that will never be on my system.
Well, I for one love the Opera interface. I really like Opera's interface with multiple windows within the main one.. You call it MDI - a word I've not heard before (Multiple Display Interface or something?). But, it's great to use. It's not reinventing the wheel, it's making everything much more easily accesible within the browser.
But, this is a matter of taste, and my tastes may not suit yours.
--
Opera's nice, but... (Score:1)
Is Mozilla GPL? (Score:1)
One of the biggest problems currently facing all operating systems, perhaps *the* biggest, is the lack of any decent open-source graphical browser that's under the GPL (or a decent variation of it). Considering how incredibly important the browser is (I'd consider it now the most important application) this is mind-boggling!
--
Chris Long, Departments of Mathematics & Statistics, Rutgers University
Re:Aliasing bookmarks?! OOOOH! (Score:1)
Install khotkeys, and asign command like this
kfmclient openURL http://www.slashdot.org
to some shortcut.
Amazing (Score:1)
Am I the only one amazed to see a 100 thread discussion about a Windows program on slashdot?
If so I must be in the wrong place.
CC
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
Hook. Line and sinker. I'm biting on far too much bait.
It's about Opera beeing ported to linux.
--
Re:Aliasing bookmarks?! OOOOH! (Score:1)
How about a good comparison? (Score:1)
It's time for another comparison. I want to see the goods. Screen shots of some pages, reviews, etc. I don't have time to do it myself. I'm content fudging around with Netscape and trying to avoid crashes.
I don't see myself using Opera.. since I can't bring myself to pay for a browser when MSIE runs well under VMWare, which I paid for and find useful.
I never liked Netscape's text handling. Text handling in all the nix's is quite bad... but even Netscape for Windows (come on Adobe! Do what you did to Windows to Linux! Bring us some nice engines!) looks drab.
Text is all the wrong size too.. maybe it's because people write for MSIE... but even
[OT & FB] TANSTAAFL (Score:2)
A lot of posts here that Opera doesn't understand what free is, or otherwise complaining about Opera not being free. I think that most of these posters are still grossly confused between gratis and libre. Opera is neither but this hardly makes it satanspawn.
TAANSTAFL was first coined in the Great Depression of the US. Signs proclaimed "free lunch", but those seeking freebies during that hard time soon realized that "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch", since they had to "endure" sermons. Sometimes I think the preaching and gnuspeak on slashdot is the price paid for free software. Yeah, you don't have to pay money for Mozilla, but you have to endure endless sermons on how it is morally superior to Opera, how its developers are altruistic saints, and how those
Re:Amazing (Score:1)
I know I should cut back on the bait, but a well stuffed hook is required when you fishin' for windoze wienies, they don't usually see a normal sized bait.
The Opera port has been in the works for quite a while, they just twistin' in the wind trying to figure out how to make $s here.
This forum has gone from a place for nerds to hang to ... the post sellout thing, a place for wannabes to hang.
CC
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
There's a port of GCC for windows.
---
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
However, it makes the broswer the only thing that IS accessible. If web browsing was ALL I did, then I probably wouldn't have these 20 some odd windows open on the rest of my screen, hmm?
If all you're doing is web browsing, maybe it works for you. But I know that when I'm browsing, I'm often doing something else, too. Watching logs, chatting, etc. If you're using a WM that uses some braindead construct like a taskbar, then another braindead construct like MDI will probably do you fine. However, if you hate taskbars, and thus don't use them, then MDI is just going to hinder productivity.
That's the only reason I put up with MDI on Windows, and why I do not put up with MDI on any other system.
Re:Lynx sucks (Score:1)
Regards,
January
Tables-capable browser (Score:1)
Find it here:
ftp://ei5nazha.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/w3m/
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
Re:Linux needs a new browser (Score:1)
Re:NoteTab for Linux (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah... (Score:1)
Nobody's going to pay for a closed-source browser, however spiffy, when there's a reasonable selection of respectable open _and_ closed browsers, all of which are free. It's time the Opera folks started a new project.
I gladly paid $35 for Opera's Windows version, because it was the best performing, fastest loading, most reliable browser for this OS. I think some Linux users will make the leap for the same reasons, regardless of Mozilla's supposed future dominance.
Re:Opera will never be a big player (Score:1)
1) Their HTML rendering is quite lame. It doesn't render most simple HTML correctly, so things look 'weird' compared to Navigator/IE. If they can't even get that right, they've got no chance
Most cases of poor Opera rendering are due to malformed HTML on the Web page you're looking at. Netscape and Microsoft have created browsers that are extremely lax in enforcing HTML syntax, and as a result many lazy Web page developers like me don't make sure our pages are valid HTML.
Opera, on the other hand, is less forgiving of bad HTML. For this reason, it's a great browser to have around as you are developing and testing a Web site. (Another good tool: The W3C HTML Validator [w3.org].)
I've been using Opera as my main Windows browser for several months, and the only poor rendering I would blame on Opera is how the browser displays numbered and unnumbered lists. The renderer puts a lot more vertical space between list items than any other browser, and I hope the developers will address this in a future release.
Re:Opera? More like Roseanne singing. (Score:1)
Their HTML compatibility was awful (this was the 3.0 release). ... As far as I'm concerned, Opera is nowhere near the browser that Netscape/Mozilla is and is only getting recognition because they're an 'alternative'.
Early versions of Opera were terrible, but version 3.60 for Windows renders HTML well and supports standard HTML better than any other browser. It also contains more support for Cascading Style Sheets than any of its rivals.
There are dozens of alternatives to Navigator and Internet Explorer. The reason Opera is getting attention now is because it's getting good.
Re:Shop@netscape (Score:1)
Netscape have an option I understand in prefs.js (was that the file) to disable the button... just haven't got around to doing it yet...
Re:Is Mozilla GPL? (Score:1)
"Linux will never become a big hit..." (Score:1)
"You Free Software people can't build a usable UNIX replacement"
Oh, wait, we did - GNU/Linux, a modern cross-platform POSIX OS
"You Free Software people can't build GUI tools for end users"
Oh, wait, we did - Gimp, used by plenty of experienced digital artists and newbies alike.
There's always someone who says the next mountain is an impossible climb, and they've been wrong EVERY TIME so far. Why would it be different this time?
Re:The advantages of Opera (Score:1)
(For an example, check out my listed webpage: if the top-left most PNG block doesn't come out as purple on transparent, it's bugged.)
Windows 95 platform,
Netscape Navigator 4.08: Purple square
Opera 3.60b3: White square with a purple big-cheeked face
These are of course older versions, but does that answer your question?
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:1)
We've sure got a sackful of features (the alternative I suppose would be to hang around in #warez all week scrounging Kai's add-ons, since PS ships with hardly any good add-ons)
The interface is only "hostile" if you're insistent on treating Gimp like MS Paint. IF you want a kiddy finger-paint package, write your own, this is a serious job and it has a serious tool.
Much of the more glaring inconsistency is gone in the forthcoming Gimp 1.2 (try 1.1.10 now to see what's coming), and
If you're one of the zillions who can't find their right mouse button (doesn't Windows have one of those these days?) Gimp 1.2 adds an explicit GUI menu selector too.
For those of us who've tried PS recently after using Gimp, it's annoying to have the One-Picture, One-Menu, One-Process method. I'd like to get some WORK done here.
Of course, since it's Free Software you're free to fix all of your perceived problems and see if TigerT et al prefer your "easy" version.
Re:Explanation :) (Score:1)
Re:Opera? More like Roseanne singing. (Score:1)
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:4)
My problem with the Opera people is that they seem to think anything free is shoddy, and the fact that their software isn't free is some kind of incentive to use it. It just sort of flies in the face of everything that created the OS they've decided to port their browser to.
---
Consult, v. t. To seek another's approval of a course already decided on.
Re:Why I can't support Opera (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, yeah, yeah... (Score:2)
Not.
Come on folks. At this rate, they MIGHT finish their port of Opera to Linux and the Qt widget set (blah. I dont care so much about the license of Qt - I just think it's ugly. Give me Gtk or give me death.) before Mozilla gets a final version out.
Also, it's kinda funny how Opera claims their browser is more up-to-date than anyone else's... Hmm. They don't support HTML 4. (Netscape and IE do.) They don't yet have support for CSS 2. (IE supports it, albeit somewhat brokenly, and Mozilla is aiming for complete CSS2 support.) Do they support DOM?
Come on, Opera. Lets see some progress here. You've been working on ports to several different platforms for how long now? And have any of the ports been completed? How many new versions have you released for Windows while the different ports have languished? Was the original source written with any kind of portability in mind AT ALL? Or is it being completely rewritten because it was too Win32-centric?
I think an explanation of this is in order.