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Linux Software

Windows Domination May End Next Year 231

Posted by Roblimo from the Linux-under-the-Christmas-tree-would-be-nice dept.
Non-Newtonian Fluid writes "The Register has an interesting article which explains exactly how Linux could rise up and defeat M$ by taking advantage of the Easy PC specification and Micro$oft's own inability to keep pace with the demands of new hardware. " The article also mentions BeOS and other possible Windows competitors. A good "makes you think" piece.
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Windows Domination May End Next Year More

Windows Domination May End Next Year

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  • FUD crap (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Dude, if you can't see the difference between KDE and Gnome 1 year ago and KDE / Gnome today and then extrapolate that to 1 year from today, then you are a short-sighted nit picker.

    Whats with the terminology "rogue Linux developers"? You are a fudding stupid sh*t. The well organized and highly productive team of KDE and Gnome have surpassed MacOS and Windows both in a number of areas and are rapidly catching up in others.

    And because we have these highly competitive, productive forces, crap GUIs like MS consumer OS are quickly looking less attractive (they have always been less stable).
  • Uhhh... I guess you just haven't been keeping up. As far as GUIs and usuability are concerned, I suggest you check out some of the recent commercial distributions such as Caldera, Red Hat, etc., etc. And as far as motivations for creating open source software, doesn't the quantity and quality of existing open source software speak for itself? Check out "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond. And lastly, apparently you aren't aware that our army is bigger, more motivated, and more qualified than your army. Therefore, REVOLUTION!!!
  • Intuit developers have a rough enough time keeping up with the Win/Mac platform as it is. I've met some of Intuit's developers, they laughed when I mentioned Linux. In their eyes, Linux is a hobbyists OS, and has no place in the corporate(capitalistic) world we live in. As far as Intuit releasing source code for anything, I think we had best not hold our breath. The wheels grind very slowly in any corporate environment, and as shaky as Intuit can be with free alternatives to their software available( MSMoney), I don't see them doing anything potentially risky anytime soon. They are still unsure year to year whether or not they will continue releasing Mac stuff. Even if they did port to Linux, the chances of such a company considering Open Source would shake their stockholders to the core of their being. And at Intuit, the stockholders are really the ones in charge when it comes right down to it. If the stock is rising, we must be doing good seems to be the mentality. To add more to this pot 'o' soup, they have approximately 20 developers for Windows, and 3 for Mac. They do not have the time to finish what they code now, and do you really think they would hire developers to work on porting software without being able to guarantee the numbers beforehand ? To sum this up, in order for Intuit to consider Linux, the main control and motivation of the organiztion would have to move away from the idea that the bottom line is money. They would have to believe in writing good software that appeals to many people in the belief that the quality of their coding would sell itself. That is a far cry from living a a slave to the stocks.
  • blather blather blather
    History will speak for itself.
  • If linux won't run on any of your boxes, you don't know what you're doing.

  • I use:

    Section "Pointer"
    Protocol "MouseManPlusPS/2"
    ZAxisMapping 4 5
    Device "/dev/mouse"
    EndSection

  • With EnergyStar, you don't need to turn off your PC...therefore leaving it readily available for use (no startup to wait for...not wear-and-tear on the HD, either). You don't unplug your clock radio once you know the time, do you? No, you leave it on so that, later, you can look again without having to plug it back in and reset the time and alarms (which I guess defeats the point, but you get the picture)...

  • The thing with the floppy removal wasn't so much that they removed it, but that they didn't include a replacement of some sort (be it a Zip drive or whatever). And somehow, this is supposed to be a "feature". At least that's how I read the issue. It's not like anyone has a great love for floppies, it's just nice to have some sort of removable storage that pretty much any computer can read.

    And besides, nobody in the PC industry really planned to support legacy hardware ad infinitum. It's gotta go at some point, after all. The industry was just waiting for the new technologies to be a little more mature (mainly for the hardware makers to make more USB devices for the USB-enabled PCs that have been around for years now) The difference between the PC OEMs and Apple being that Apple touted themselves as being revolutionary for doing what PC makers did two years ago - include USB :)

    Apple did do a good job of timing their switch to USB to match when the USB hardware was becoming widely available, and as usual their marketing folks did an excellent job. But it was the people making devices for Wintel machines that are mostly responsible for USB and its growing popularity. So in this case, it is Apple following the industry, not vice versa :)

    Apple does have the lead in incorporating FireWire, though I suppose that's to be expected since it is their technology.
  • Linus has expressed some opinions on replacing the old fashion VGA text modes on the x86 with Frame Buffered text console modes, like almost every non-x86 platform out there. The facts, are that frame buffered text mode is almost as fast as the old fashion VGA text modes, and how often do you really test the speed of hardware VGA text modes versus frame buffered modes in day to day work? Not much.

    There are obvious benfits to using a frame buffered console, for one you can include graphics in it, such as when the system boots. Also if you are using a frame buffered console you can actually possibly run graphical programs without X11 (like Mac-on-linux or XF68_FBDev, a frame buffer based X server based on XFree86). This saves some of the bloat of X when you don't need it.

    And yes, since kernel 2.2, x86 machine also support frame buffered consoles, but you have to spefically enable them when compiling your kernel.

  • Yea, and if that happens the people running the "servers" will be able to charge by the hour for app usage.

    This would be a Bad Thing(TM).

  • That's what Windows Update does for the most part now...
  • It may be annoying, but for many USB is annoying. Linux is made by hackers(people who know computers). Everyone knows that USB is inferior. So less people are likely to be intersted in writing the drivers. It is slower(than SCSI). It puts a huge load on the computer. For things like a modem you don't need anything faster than Serial. That goes for Keyboard and mouse also. It's not annoying its just the way it is. The command line may be annoying but its still there. I would like to see USB suport(out of principle) but I would much rather better SMP support.

  • (1) It crashes very rarely: important for people who depend on their computers (NOT casual users)

    Actually this is important for a casual user. They want a box that, to borrow a quote, "just works". They don't want to have to deal with the fallout from crashes all the time. Even if they don't depend on it, they simply don't want to have to wonder if it's crashed after having been left alone and untouched for a week.

    (2) It's a tinkerer's dream -- if you don't like something, go and change it! Again, the casual users couldn't care less.

    Again, they will care because of one thing: they don't care to tinker, but the guy who set it up for them does. If the box can be tweaked, I can sit down, tweak it to exactly what's needed, lock it down so they can't touch things and duplicate the result 200 times for 200 different people.

  • Windows != Easy to use (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I spent the weekend installing Win95 on a spare partition so that my nephew could play his video games when he visted me. I have never installed Windows before. I have never even used Windows before. Installation was more difficult than any Linux installation. After hours of getting it to recognize the ethernet card and configuring the network I decided to install Win95 drivers for the sound card. Big mistake. After what looked like a successful install of the drivers Win asked if I would like to reboot so the drivers would be seen. Big mistake. The computer shutdown ok. But It would not reboot. No matter what I did. The solution? Start all over from square one and reinstall Win95.

    Later, when my nephew asked why sound didn't work when playing his game, it was all I could do to keep from swearing at him.

    Conclusion: anyone who thinks Win95 is easier than Linux must have a hole in their head.

  • Agreed. Isn't it great that we're getting rid of all the legacy hardware like ISA and Super I/O (which free OSes support fairly well) and replacing them with hip plug-n-pray USB devices? What a coincidence that the central peripheral connection in EasyPC isn't well supported by Linux/*BSD.
  • They'd have to hire 3-5 more people for a full Linux port, but it would be worth it to them.

    They'd probably sell 20-50K copies in a year or two. Much more down the road as Linux gains in popularity (and it will).

    And supporting Linux would make all the sense in the world for them to do. Right now they're barely managing to stay ahead of M$ at its own game (Win and Mac software). It's highly unlikely that we'll see a M$ Money for Linux for a LONG time (we will, of course, when Linux achieves Domination(TM)), so Intuit could have a couple years' head start.

  • Suppose Windows dominion does end next year. Without the platform holding people back ....

    Keep in mind that operating systems are no longer truly applications; they have descended into the realm of infrastructure.

    Thus a great benefit of the dominance of the x86/Windows platform has been that it has provided a common infrastructure. It benefits the market if programmers don't have to spend precious resources porting the same program to every architecture under the sun (Mac, alpha, linux, Win9x, NT, BSD, BeOS, etc). Those same dollars are invested in a single product for a single platform, and the quality is higher because of it. Consumers benefit. (Of course, it often makes for cleaner *code* when one has to write it so that it compiles on Solaris, BeOS, linux, BSD, MacOS X, and all the other unices, but this is tangential to my point.)

    So Microsoft has been greatly beneficial in providing a platform that almost all computers can be assumed to have. It has gone a long way in making Win32 (be it 95, 98, or NT) a required infrastructure. Where they have failed consumers is that their infrastructure is bad. The UI is currently unparalleled, but the internals are a mess!

    So though your analysis of potential OS fragmentation may be accurate, I don't think it will be A Good Thing. The software market needs to be able to write for a common platform.

    OTOH, the processor market can fragment and competition will actually be beneficial. Especially if Open Source applications become the norm, compiler writers will hide the processor differences from the software developers. One can even envision a self-compiling program, much like a MS setup.exe or an rpm that would be distributed in source form and would automatically unpack, configure, compile, and install itself for the host environment just by double-clicking. When we all have 10GHz machines on our desk, compile time will be negligible.

  • God the MacOS is a horendus peice of shit, even windows can do that. and windows dosn't crash every 1/2 hours (dispite what pure linux users seem to think)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • 1)X11 slow

    I had a lot of problems with this when I was using vid cards with non-accelerated drivers (Rendition Verite 1000 / 2100 ). When I moved to a video card that had accelerated drivers, my linux ended up being as fast as windows. Actually I really think Netscape is faster in linux, but that might be an optical delusion.

    2)Installation Sucks

    To date - something like 30 windhuuhs installs
    To date - something like a dozen Linux installs

    Linux is always easier. Finding drivers and getting them to cooperate under windows can be a major hassle. I remember installing Slack 2.0, that was a pain. Modern linux installs are easier than windows IMHO.

    3) Applications

    Not a boatload of them, but they're getting there. I spend the majority of my time in Linux doing things, not futzing with my backgrounds. Gimping, programming, running newsbot programs, looking at pics, surfing, CivCTP, putzing. Your right that there is not a lot available for Linux currently, but it is changing, and rather quickly.

    4) I don't have trouble generally with this, PNP is supported fairly well in Linux now, USB is starting to be supported, it's getting better.

    5) KDE is not bad at all, what are you missing from windows? Blue screens? Actually I have those also thanks to jwz & xscreensaver :)

    Basically, I like it, and so do 10-15 million other people. And it's growing, soon enough I will be able to play games and run the whiz-bangiest software available.

  • VGA (Score:1)

    by delmoi ( 26744 )
    the VGA must never die!! it's the only thing you can count on *at all* to be on every machine. actualy it *should* be on most Macs to that use the ATI chipsets. almost all Graphics cards keep VGA silicon, to remain compatable. getting rid of the VGA would serve no purpose, break *a lot* of *software* backwards compatability (including windows safe mode)

    as far as hardware accelliration for text, it probably dosn't do much on pIIIs, but still :)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Can you say "Linux for Windows"?
  • pssst! Let me tell you a secret: Office 2000 writes and reads XML. It also writes and reads the .DOC and .XLS formats. But the new default is XML.
  • actualy, MS-DOS has supported framebufferd text for a *long* time, just put your video card in whatever weird mode you want, and DOS will put the text up for you :)

    actualy, i'ts pretty slow, even in mode 13h(320x200x8) on my p200mmx
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Or, as it will eventually be,
    Windows for linux, with that silly cga flag running with svgalib :)
  • No NT workstation CD is bootable only NT server.
  • I don't know why, but I've always preferred external modems, and I REALLY like my USB modem. Consequently, I can't wait till the 2.4 kernel comes out. Hopefully, it will support my USRobotics(3com) USB modem. Meanwhile, I'll just have to keep surfing on Windoze. :(
  • I always wonder if certain companies promote these flamewars to scrounge for new ideas and insights into our thought processes. Oh well. Let the sun shine in.

    (Yes I know this is off topic.)
  • local pr0n cach
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Does that mean that Intel is developing an entirely new CPU and chipset for it? Is this supposed to just be some kind of interenter appliance with little in the way of memory or storage?


    Who am I?
    Why am here?
    Where is the chocolate?
  • > Yea, and if that happens the people running the "servers" will be able to charge by the hour for app usage.

    > This would be a Bad Thing(TM).

    Would it, really?

    I'm sure that there would be more than one company running these "netserver-apps"... with competition like that, we could watch for the prices getting very low very fast.

    You'd probably see stuff like:
    Subscribe to OneNet (TM)!
    OneNet (TM) offers you 5 applications in One (TM)! WordOne (TM), ChartOne (TM), PaintOne (TM), DataOne (TM) and MailOne (TM) all for the low, low price of $2.99 per month! Assumes a 50 hour limit. Unlimited time for as low as $4.99 per month! Say good-bye to low disk space, upgrade hassles and End User License Agreements! Subscribe to OneNet (TM) today!

    Well... okay, maybe not quite, but you get the gist. Comapnies would make a killing off of stuff like that due to multiple clients, and yet when you get right down to it, the end-user would probably end up paying less than today (compare $5 per month to $500+ every couple of years to buy the software yourself (don't forget the upgrades!)). Simple economies of scale.

    And given that the primary OS'es will be Open Sourced (in this hypothetical future), I see no reason why the Application Servers shouldn't be as well.

    Hell, if you're really concerned about the cost, you can shell out a bit of money up-front and run your own.

    *shrug*

    Call me an idealist, but I actually see that situation as much preferable to what exists today.
    --
    - Sean
  • Clue: those video drivers that were a major struggle before were still lurking in the shadows. Oftentimes you can go into the Control Spaniel "System" area and find that it's shoved your video card into the "other" category because it didn't know what to do with it (duh!) and you can "install drivers" for it.

  • If...If...If... (Score:3)

    by Suydam ( 881 ) on Thursday July 29, 1999 @06:49AM (#1777031) Homepage
    While this article is an entertaining read....it overlooks a few problems with the "Easy PC's with Linux will overthrow Windows".

    First, while I'm sure consumers won't care if their "net-only" box runs Windows, I disagree that the Net-only box is going to be popular enough to dethrone Microsoft. There just aren't THAT MANY WebTV boxes out there right now for me to believe that this is the wave of the future. People will still want office apps (at the very least a word processor) that work as well and as easiliy as MS Office. As a long time user of Star Office, Applixware, KLyx and more recently Abi-Word, it's my opinion that we're not there yet. We're getting there...but we just aren't there.

    Stop right there oh ye of the itchy flamethrower trigger finger

    I'm not not not saying that Linux won't over throw MS in the near future (although "near" is up for debate). I'm merely saying that Internet-only boxes based on Intel's sketch "Easy PC" roadmap is not the way we're going to over through the giant.

    To me, it all comes down the same stuff it's always come down to. Stability, Applications, GUI, Ease of Use. And we're already tackling those quite nicely I think.

  • Agreed. If I had Quicken, a video-conferencing app, and STABLE USB support, I wouldn't ever need to boot into my Windows98 partition. VMWare looks to be ideal for the first two of these, but it won't support USB until Linux does.

    Right now, for me, USB seems to be Windows' key advantage over Linux in the hardware department, neglecting all those WinPeripherals (modems, printers, etc.) Anyone know when we'll have this on the clear horizon?
  • For linux to make an inroad into the easy pc market, they need a company focused on customer service - Because the Easy PC spec is aimed at users who can barely operate their toaster, and who *will* call the company about 10 times a year for support for the lifecycle of the product.

    So the company must build, load, and support these machines, while selling them at a low cost. While the software could be open(free) source, the hardware and support could not.

    Any takers?

    -Adam

    Oh where, oh where has my little .sig gone, oh where, oh where could it be?
  • I was thinking about this article and particularly his last sentence about Christmas 2000. Right now I'm doing all kinds of tech support for computer illiterate friends. It's always a pleasure/pain to tell them that because their computer is running Windows 9x and it has a problem, I really have no idea what to do. Microsoft's frequent errors seem to be uncurable. Than I had this picture of people asking me what OS to get on their new computer, and what all the differences were. I nearly had a heart attack thinking about it. I find it hard to believe that anything other than Microsoft Whatever 95 will be in widespread use a year and a half from now. College campuses especially will still be using Microsoft products, as the faculty will have a hissy fit being forced to learn all kinds of new stuff. Just some random thoughts that don't really flow together well... $0.015 (it rounds up to $0.02 at least)

  • The EasyPC site (Score:3)

    by Romen ( 10819 ) on Thursday July 29, 1999 @06:55AM (#1777039) Homepage
    The EasyPC page on the intel site is here [intel.com].


    Romen

  • I have to agree that Linux needs better game support. While it is not important to me, many people buy a PC primarily to play games. But of course, game developers won't start writing for Linux until it becomes more popular. And again, it won't become mainstream until it has more games that will run on it.
  • USB isn't really important, it's just damn convenient for desktop computers. Let's see you unplug that PS/2 keyboard and plug in another keyboard while your computer is running.

    USB lets you plug in a device and just use it while the computer is running.

    The main advantage of USB I see in Windows is that you can connect new hardware without having to restart the computer as much!
  • I'm using a Logitech Trackman Marble FX in Linux right now, works like a normal PS/2 trackball, except that the little red button below the middle button isn't functional - but I can live with only three mouse buttons.

    from /etc/X11/XF86Config

    Section "Pointer"
    Protocol "PS/2"
    Device "/dev/mouse"
    SampleRate 100
    Resolution 200
    Buttons 3
    EndSection


    /El Niño
  • What have WinModems got to do with anything ? A box like this will either come with its modem on the motherboard, in which case the hardware manufacturer would have to be insane to tie it to a particular OS from a particular manufacturer, or it will plug in over USB, in some as-yet-unestablished manner. WinModems are PCI or ISA cards, usually.

    What is experimental about the USB and PnP support in 2.2 ? PnP seems just fine (I don't mess with USB just now).
  • Scanner. I bought a HP scanjet for my family, it has USB out of the box and can be made to do SCSI. I wanted the USB because between me, my kids and my wife, we can move the unit around as needed.

    When Linux has good support for USB, I'll be set. In the mean time, I either boot Winblows when I need to scan, or scan from my kid's machine and then put it onto my server with Samba.

    I can see the same thing happening with a digital camera or some other USB interface device (mice, keyboard, bah).
  • If you've been paying attention, there are already 2 major (free!) projects that are doing this. KOffice, which only running on *n*xes, uses XML for its documents. Unfortunately, the KWord docs I've looked at are terribly bloated with tons of extra stuff. For each paragraph there are about 20 lines of junk duplicated from the previous one.

    AbiWord, the WP I'm using right now, runs on Win, Mac, *n*x, and BeOS. It uses XML, and its documents are much nicer to read - they're actually hand-editable.

    Try out AbiWord - it's not finished, but it's quite usable if you don't need to do fancy formatting.

    http://www.abisource.com

  • WP for Linux Works absolutely fine, and comes on the RH6 CD. It may not be as huge as MS-Word, but it does what it has to do pretty well.

    The Gnome/Enlighenment combo that comes with RH 6.0 is sufficiently easy to use that, if it's preconfigured with apps, any random windows user could use it.

  • If it were pre-installed on a computer it would be usable out of the box just as quickly and easily as MS-Windows, and it would have more software avalible.

    Eithor the Gnome+E or the KDE which is included on the RH6 CD is totaly usable by any random user who happens to feel like doing so.

    Does Windows come with Corel WP? -- no -- you have to go pay $50 to $500 to get a good word processor.

  • eally? perhaps you are using win3.11? retarded next buttons? perhaps the concept of understanding what the installation process is doing is too much for you.

    I think a better question would be what version of windows *you're* using, certanly not the one I am, (windows 98), every once in a while you'll find a program that just "runs" without needing to do anything else. Next buttons are a pain in the ass, and after you're clicking them (witch isnt' really that hard) They've invariably put a bunch of obsolite crap in the windows\system directory, probably breaking other applications (I really *hate* that, I'd almost rather install the software by hand, and stick all the dll's in the same DIR as the app)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • All software is obsolete the moment its used :)
    1. Java is a load of crap, it's too slow and kludged to ever matter.
    2. As the price of hardware goes down, it'll continue to look better and better to have your processing power and storage locally.
    3. Other than price, there are no real advantages to the thin client model for home users.
    4. Working with an app running locally will always be faster than working with an app running far away, even if it gets down to the fact that light travels short distances faster than long distances. (This totaly ignores line noise, etc, which would be the real problems)
    5. Which would you rather do, pay $50 to "purchase" a copy of a program, or pay $20/month to use a program?
    6. Networked Typewriter?
    7. Gaming, 'nuff said.
  • [not crashing] Actually this is important for a casual user. They want a box that, to borrow a quote, "just works". They don't want to have to deal with the fallout from crashes all the time. Even if they don't depend on it, they simply don't want to have to wonder if it's crashed after having been left alone and untouched for a week.

    First, a casual user's understanding of "just works" mostly means "it does what I mean" and doesn't have much to do with crashes. Again, it's a question of the appropriate GUI and considerable underlying program intelligence which has to guess correctly what did the user mean. And anyway, crashes can be made relatively painless (fast reboot + session management) as I pointed out.

    Besides casual users do not leave their computers running for a week and they don't care if it crashed while sitting untouched -- it's not like they are going to access their machine remotely...

    Again, they will care because of one thing: they don't care to tinker, but the guy who set it up for them does.

    You miss the point completely. The whole idea of those Easy-PCs is that nobody has to set them up. You bring it home, plug it into the outlet and the phone jack, and it works. That's it. Nothing to cofigure, nothing to select, nothing to tweak. I am not sure the actual machine will pull it off, but that is clearly the goal.

    Kaa
  • Do you realize why M$ called their new O$ as Win2000? Because it left them enough time to make it work and be delivered in time....

    For the Saudi release, perhaps -- they've got plenty of time until 2000 Ante Hegira....
    /.

  • Which is why you won't be buying this computer.

    It's aimed at my grandmother who would like to be able to talk to her grandkids over this here new fancy email thing 'cause they never phone any more.

    It's aimed at my brother who wants to get the latest sports scores at espn.com, but otherwise has no use for a computer. Like, whatever!

    It's aimed at people who probably don't use a sound card, ethernet connection, external CPU, etc, etc, etc. at all, let alone care whether or not they can get a third-party one that isn't built into the motherboard.

    It's not aimed at anyone who reads Slashdot regularly, that's for damn sure!

    And that includes you.
    --
    - Sean
  • Don't get me wrong... it's crap, but... isn't that what they are working with, and not Win98?

    Built-in pocket applications *work*, and provide the minimum functionality.

    It seems like the right platform is closer to a souped-up WinCE than Linux, Palm OS, or Linux on a Palm. I still haven't seen a "good" browser for the Palm Pilot!

    Anyway, hate to burst a bubble, but Linux still have a LONG way to go to point-and-drool interface!
  • Although your points are something that the mass user wants I don't think that it will draw the masses to Linux. The attention span of the TV viewer isn't very long, and it isn't getting any better anytime soon.
    I was thinking more along the lines of showing people using Corel WordPerfect, GNUmric, Netscape, Quake *, all on a flashy desktop, flashing back and forth between a user on Windows getting BSODs, waiting for applications to pop up, Dr. Watson, having the autodetect find their serial port for the 800th time but not finding what ever it was that they just installed. With Linux, don't show the command prompt, and make desktop look similar enough to MS Windows to make people think that it wouldn't be hard to switch. I personally use Gnome on top of Enlightenment but I think KDE would be better suited for this task.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • block port 21, or whatever port telnet is on. it should be OK
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • I think the PC as we know it is going to become the serial port and ISA of the modern computer, some people will still use it and swear by it religiously, but they will eventually be forced to move on. We're seeing all incarnations of set top boxes for net access and some basic word processing, running all sorts of kernels, most noteably linux. Connections are getting faster for Joe User's home so the idea of network computers running remote applications is no longer something reserved for Bill Joy's wet dreams. Here's what I see happening in the next few years. 1. Sun buys Star Office-a cross platform, MS Office compatible, relatively small office suite-and rewrites the Java version to be smaller and much more efficient processor wise. Then they release NC's with microSPARC or JavaChip processors in them (both run Java natively and therefore much faster than say an x86 or PPC chip). With cable and xDSL available in many parts of the country, people find these NC's easy to use and good for what they need.
    2. AOL releases their set top box, which with AOL's popularity deals a heavy blow against Micro$oft's WebTV. AOL offers cheap @home service to it's box owners which increases the set top box and AOL's user base. The AOl box runs an uber-hacked linux kernel.
    3. Platforms like Nintendo's Dolphin and the PSX2 offer WebTV-like net access and multi player gaming over the internet.
    4. Intel's 810 chipset becomes widely used in the sub-500$ PC market making PC's less and less upgradeable but drastically reducing their price while adding a little more *umph* to their multimedia capability.
    5. SGI changes their logo yet again. Their campus is stormed by angry nerds who attack them with all forms of pointy metal objects. SGI changes their logo back to the cool infinity cube, the nerds rejoice.
    6. Amiga never decides what to base their new kernel on and merely changes the version number to 4.0 and hope no one notices. 7. With the popularity of the iMac pretty undistputed, many other PC makers get the idea that your average user probably will never open up their computer to add anything so cute cuddly user friendly designs flood the market. Only techies and true believers build and use legacy systems and are never bothered with annoying questions like "How do I turn it on?" ever again.
    8. Silicon Valley sinks into the ocean.
  • All PS/2 mice are the same, it's not to surprizing that they worked, windows has built in drivers for them, same with linux.

    video drivers are a *bitch* beacuse the computer can't really work right without them (it's the same with linux I belive...)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • > (not talking about simple webtv things here)

    DUH! What the hell do you think these things are? The are just faster WebTV's with somewhat better resolution and the ability to do java.
    --
    - Sean
  • Agreed. I was hired by a bunch of (non MS) sw giants to look at the potential for these "thin clients" -- and they're just going nowhere. That's not to say that someone won't "crack the code" for a consumer device. Look at how many unsuccessful handhelds there were before the Pilot.
  • HEY!

    I like tapioca...

    Ill be damed if im gonna let intel and microsoft ruin my tapioca!
  • From what I can see, these "Easy PC" boxes will be pushed on people who don't really want a computer (mostly because they can't justify the expense) but would still like to be connected. Most people have no use for office packages. If they had a burning need to do some word processing, time management, spreadsheet manipulation, etc., they probably would have invested money in a computer long ago. And if you don't have children who have projects to do, there's no urge to spend $750 on something just to poke around on the internet and *MAYBE* do a few odd jobs on.

    If your average homeowner could get a stand-alone webified system for less than a mid-range television set, they probably would.

    ian.
  • Wow... that took SOOOO much effort, I'm sure... you must have spent all of ten seconds doing that...

    let's see...

    banner -w 80 "Linux is obsolete."

    I bow before your amazing h4x0r sk1llz.

    NOT
  • AbiWord also reads MS Word docs fairly well without taking over your whole screen the way StarOffice does. Nice!
  • Not 10% certainly. This is the most recent data we have, and it places his wealth at 191m. So selling 78m is a pretty substantial vote.

    Considering that he's left Microsoft, I assume he has good reason to (i) diversify his portfolio, and (ii) move away from a company he may have lost confidence in.

    http://www.forbes.com/asap/tech100/98/49.htm

    D

    ----
  • works in all standard text entry feelds, for undo. you might want to keep that in mind :)

    Actualy, in my opinion, installing OSs isn't really that hard at all. I got slack 2.0 working fine. I've played around with the redhat in stall, and it looks pretty simple. and windows, wasn't *that* hard....
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • i'm trying to get a linuxppc box to be my dhcp server. what a freaking nightmare -- linux forces me to master more than i should have to master to make things work easily.

    that's beacuse youre a Mac using idiot. I bet you think win9x dies every 10 minutes, and PCs are a lot slower then macs to, right?

    I read up on DHCP, it dosn't look that hard to use at all. or are all of these "commands" beyond you?
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • a) Moderator: non-biased, eh? I'm sure if he had said "Will somebody explain how this "Linux running suboptimally on an Intel platform" differs one iota from the situation today? ?" He would have been moderated out. I'm saying this comment should have, but please, show us a little consistancy.

    some peoples scores start automaticaly at 2. I guess if *a lot* of there posts are high, or somthing
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Well, I leave my VCR on all the time, There's no real reason to turn it off the moter spins down, so the only power needed is running the power light. I have my antenas hooked to the VCR beacuse I lost my TV remote *years* ago (like when I was 12), anyway the VCR never really turns off anyway, as far as the computer part of it, it keeps going, and always displays the time. I leave my computer on to, better for cracking RC64 :)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • Oh yea, USB is great.. it's about as easy as Apple ADB. If I don't like using the trackpad on my PowerBook G3 laptop, I just plug a mouse in the back, the OS pauses for about 1/2 second, then the mouse works. I guess the Mac thinks "hmm, oh wow there's a new mouse plugged in, let's use it." Just like when I stick a CH GamePad into the port, it starts to work right when I plug it in. USB works about the same except sometimes it needs a driver for the specific device, whereas most ADB devices for the Mac just "work" right when they're plugged in because the MacOS is just smart enough to know what just got shoved into the box.

    -----
    Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
  • you know, those old 70s VCRs could be tweaked to recive scrambled channles... just somthing to think about :)
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • After a few months of dual boot I zotzed my Windows partition; and to a large extent I am Jane Average user. There are a few things I miss but it's not really about having Quicken or some other productivity app. Things like having common cut and paste buffers would help. I've tried some solutions to this, but they're not ones Joe Average could really attempt.
  • Cost of maintaining Win boxes where I work: Plenty.. plus those guys who sit in the IS department need to get out in the sun sheesh they need tans!

    We in the Creatives Services (graphics) department spend ZERO in support for our Macs, since we pretty much can troubleshoot our machines ourselves. Usually problems will occur but they're always just isolated to extension files installed by stupid shareware someone downloaded (toss it in the trash) or just download patches to programs recently released.

    It's funny to hear the WinXX people (database and cataloging folks) across the partitions complain "Oh no, my computer crashed. Let's call tech support quick!"

    -----
    Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
  • i dont think that major software companies will accepted the linux philosophy.
    free programms,open source
    they will support windows anyway because windows supportes the rippoff
  • What do you think USB really is? PC's have been begging for something as quick and easy (chainable, hot-swap, etc) as ADB for years. That's why Apple went to heavily into USB, because it made a beautiful replacement for the aging ADB interface.

    ADB is one of the examples of Macs had such superiour hardware for so damn long. It was easy to use. Better then AT/PS2/Serial mouse/keyboard connectors ever were. I mean, can you even plug your PS2 mouse into your PS2 keyboard today? That would be one less wire going back behind the computer.

    (P.S. The author of this statement, in fact, hates Apple computers and most of what they do. So his praising them probably means a fair bit)
  • What if they do need new software? Have to open the cryptic Bash shell (DOS' shell is already too much for most people), untar the file (First time I tried to uncompress something in Linux, I had to look it up in a book. I couldn't figure it out), configure (including any necessary parameters), make, and then make install, and then maybe, if they are lucky, 30 minutes later it will finish making without problems. Then they will have to create a shortcut icon in GNOME. All that is 100x more than any of the users where I word could even begin to comprehend.
  • whats wrong with you???
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"

  • Hey, maybe your VCR does need to be "rebooted" after recording/playing tapes for a full week in a row. How would you know if it did -- have you ever used your VCR for that period of time nonstop without turning it off? Of course you haven't. (If you have, please put your white jacket with the straps back on...)

    Actually it's run continuously for about 31 months now. The unit I have doesn't have a physical power switch, just an electronic one that sends it to a low-power idle mode. The CPU is still running the whole time.

  • Let's say for the sake of argument that he's right though, and Easy PC's with Linux take off and make a serious dent in Windows. Even then, we'll have a problem (I predict).

    Ever notice how a new PC user starts by saying "All I need is word processing (or email, or whatever)..." but down the line a year or so, they end up wanting more functionality just because they now realize there's so much more it can do?
    The same thing will happen here. Aunt Bertha will get her computer to do email and web surfing and then will see someone running the latest version of Micros~1 Outlook with God knows what new whiz bang feature she now wants. She'll want to run it and won't be able to, unless we want to write an app to do what she wants. And most of the kind of apps we value don't fit into the mold of what Aunt Bertha wants, so there's a high probability for conflict.

    If this comes to pass, I bet it'll be followed by a "consumer backlash" against Linux or whatever OS ends up running on these boxes.
  • Actually, AbiSource claims that AbiWord does not run on the Macintosh.
  • marketing is the key, dare I say it. Right now we don't have the ability to truly market Linux to the masses. The product is here, there is great potential for marketing but the companies that should and can market Linux aren't. If Linux is going to overthrow MS we can't rely on word of mouth, there has to be some marketing effert thrown into it. Without it people will never know what Linux is. The average person uses what ever is the standard installation on their machine because either they don't know they have a choice, or don't understand the choices. What good does having choice do if you don't understand the choices. It is sort of like voting, people who don't keep up with the situation and go out and vote end up following party lines or choosing something that looks somewhat familier.

    The funniest thing right now is that the letter X seems to have a huge appeal to the average consumer, X-games, eXtreme blah, the X-generation, etc... It would be fairly easy to market X-Windows and LinuX right now just by taking advantage of the market's fixation with the letter X.

    RedHat, Caldera, SuSE, Penguin Computing, VA, Corel, Storm, etc... the list of companies who either sell Linux, or sell stuff that supports Linux. None have done much in the way of marketing, outside the net, to try and draw average people to become customers. The number of companies depending on Linux to make money is increasing very rapidly, and although the base of users is also growing at an astounding rate, there is no way that these companies will survive unless they push to draw the masses to Linux, which will require marketing.
  • I still expect Linux will be displacing Windows on corporate desktops first, rather than home PC's, but we'll see. Certainly I won't object if Linux comes to consumer PCs ahead of schedule.
  • I've used Quicken since version 1 (yes, the very very first version of it, on a 486SX/25). I think it's an invaluable program, and the fact that it interfaces with TurboTax is a godsend (although it keeps assuming that all my income is "on the books" -- go figure). Until I get my USB QuickCam working, Quicken is the only app for which I boot into Windows now. Yes, the newest versions look more web-like, but the interface is still very customizable so you can make Quicken 99 look like older versions instead.

    I appreciate the open-source movement, but until GNU Cash does everything Quicken does right down to online account access, identical file format, etc., it won't be good enough for me.

  • This post should be moderated up.

    The guy is right on - Microsoft is driving the hardware specs, and there's no way that Intel is going to release a platform that doesn't have MS backing. (Especially after the USB f-up, where they shipped hardware for a couple years without drivers.) The idea that Linux will ever have more hardware support than Windows (by next year!) on a commodity platform is silly.

    These cut-down PC plans (PC99, EasyPC) might as well be called "WinPC". Dropping things like VGA text mode, BIOS support for non-PnP OSes, 'legacy' ports like serial and parallel, and forcing things like ACPI is bad news not only for Linux but also anyone who wants to run commercial OSes such as WinNT 4.0 or OS/2.

    (In fact, the non-PnP Windows NT 4 is the *only* reason Microsoft isn't more aggressively pushing WinPCs rignt now. Once Windows 2000 is out, expect to see some very Linux unfriendly hardware. the Not that the Linux folks won't catch up, it just might take a while. And I fully expect the typical corporate purchasing department will try to save $100 and skip the 'OS-Independant' checkbox.)
    --
  • I'd like to throw something in here as the Linux newbie. I got Caldera OpenLinux 2.2, and yes, it's really graphical and friendly (though you can still get a regular text login screen by pressing ctrl-alt-F2), and it makes just about everything I do easier -- EXCEPT installing software.

    (Warning: rant ahead)

    I tried to install a frontend to MPG123 because I'm sick of listening to my mp3's in alphabetical order. It told me there were two libraries I had to install first (of course, it didn't say that in configure; I had to look in the README). So I try to find these other libraries using the ftp addresses provided. One of the sites is down so I have to hunt around for it elsewhere. One of the libraries requires two MORE libraries. I get those. I install everything, mixing up the order a couple of times, sometimes being baffled before realizing I forgot to 'su root' before typing 'make install', and the last library ends up not being able to find the other one anyway. In other programs, even though I have all the libraries and it can find them, they still don't compile, telling me to edit the Makefile, most of which I don't understand, and God forbid that I should have to edit some file in /etc, because I can't do it without logging out and re-logging in as root because Caldera took out all the non-graphical text editors, except vim, which requires a half-hour tutorial to learn to use it.

    I thought I could get around this by downloading .rpm files instead. But the only .rpm files that have EVER worked, instead of dying instantly, are the ones on the Caldera CD itself. And to install those I have to quit everything I'm doing and log in as root.

    Even if the inexperienced user moves to Linux and gets the package system working, I can bet you'll have most people using their root account to do everything, because it's too much of a pain to switch to it to install stuff. I know that this is not a good idea.

    I know that all of this is more powerful than running setup.exe in Windows. But if the average user finds some nifty new software, having a Windows version with setup.exe and an 'everything else' version requiring a process resembling the above, they're going to stick with Windows.

    --
  • A few weeks ago I bought a PS/2 mouse, I had always used a serial mouse up to this point. I have Win95 on a partition for my wife, and sometimes to play a few games. When Win95 booted, it "discovered my new hardware", and automatically removed my video driver for me!

    I broke out in a cold sweat, installing those video drivers had been a major struggle before.

    I don't remember what happened after that, the human brain tends to block out traumatic memories. ;-) All I know is that both drivers are working now!
  • Yeah, in the good 'ole days (DOS/Win31, OS/2 2.x-3.x, etc.), there was always a method or process to fixing all computer problems. Everything made sense and had a clear-cut solution.

    With the release of Windows'95, MS has turned fixing those problems into a form of voodoo magic! Today, fixing the average Win'9X problem involves yanking or masaging the system drivers, 20 reboots, and 10 dances in full witch doctor apparel! And don't forget the ceremonial chants! This is the only way to fix Win9X problems, and sometimes yields an 80% success rate. Hehe :)

  • Nice optimism, too bad it's completely wrong (Score:3)

    by JohnZed ( 20191 ) on Thursday July 29, 1999 @07:03AM (#1777144)
    The optimism isn't wrong, that is, but the angle is way off. Which OS will take better advantage of this new EasyPC spec:
    a) The OS whose company was deeply involved in writing the spec and which is coming out with a specific version just to support it (Millenium)
    or
    b) The OS that gets little, belated info about new hardware initiatives, can't run WinModems (which are surely a central part of EasyPC), and only has experimental PnP and USB support now?

    The real future for Linux comes when more hardware vendors are willing to write drivers for the LinModems of the future. Oracle's $150 Linux NC will be a nice start. And if Corel gets good penetration, it will certainly help.
    --JZ

  • Yeah, I deleted about three sentances and replaced it with that parentetical note, so I deserve the DUH.

    What I meant is that a "WebTV" is only advertised to surf the web and get mail. Anyone can build one of these right now. My understanding is that an EasyPC falls in between a webbox and a real computer. You can surf the web, and use a (cut down?) version of Excel, and play non-accellerated Quake.

    The problem comes when consumers figure out that only thing these boxes are real good at is web surfing, and it's difficult to run the hardware and software they need. (Kinda like the old Atari 8-bit machines - great at games, bad at word processing).
    --
  • "... it doesn't have to be Windows, and as Windows is expensive and overly-complicated, quite a lot of these boxes won't be Windows. They'll be Linux, BSD or BeOS, and the customers won't really care. "

    I think that customers will care, but not for good reasons. Unfortunately, Windows has dominated the market for long enough that "PC" and "Windows" are linked together in most consumers' minds.

    In the world the I (and probably a good number of Slashdot readers) live, surrounded by geeks, it's easy to forget that most people, most current computer owners even, haven't even heard of Linux. At best, they saw an article in a trade mag, but they aren't giving it a lot of thought. Plus, those magazine articles are often loaded with FUD, and they make the customer less likely to want a computer sans Windows.

    This is why everyone needs to read the Advocacy HOWTO [linux.com]. Yes, most people will prefer Windows to an operating system they haven't heard of (even if it means waiting a few months...and I'm sure Microsoft won't let anyone think that it'll be more than a few months' delay), but we can work to make sure people have heard of Linux (as well as BeOS, BSD, etc.), and that they know that they have a choice right now. When these EasyPCs come out, and they only customers can have Windows is to wait, the choice will be clear.

  • If Windows domination ends ... (Score:5)

    by Frater 219 ( 1455 ) on Thursday July 29, 1999 @07:11AM (#1777154) Journal
    Suppose Windows dominion does end next year. Without the platform holding people back, I think we can expect a few other changes.

    First off, Linux-based systems will not be the only ones to benefit. The Macintosh will be right there, of course --- Apple's holding a comeback, and everyone's invited. The iMac has already done a bit to cut into Windows's market share, and we can expect the iBook to do likewise. Other OSes can also take their share, of course --- if Amiga ever gets its rear in gear, they can do nicely; so can Be, for that matter. Still, as there's little evidence Amiga or Be can get their rears in gear, I think we'll see Linux-based systems and the MacOS as the primary successors to Windows on the desktop.

    Second off, x86 dominion will go away slowly. Macintoshes, of course, are non-x86 systems. So are Amigas. However, a good portion of the non-x86 market will be running Linux-based systems, not MacOS or the Amiga OE. Already there are the NetWinder and Qube which use non-x86 processors; there's also Linux for the PowerPC chip, though so far PPCs outside of Macintoshes are hard to come by. Non-x86 Linux systems will start as servers (like the Qube and NetWinder) and expand in the direction of the consumer desktop as demand materializes. The x86 isn't that great to begin with; it's been held on to largely because of binary compatibility, which isn't an issue in the world of free software.

    Finally, the applications field will change. It's possible that Microsoft could lose Windows and yet keep the Office dominion by porting to Linux and other systems as they emerge. However, I suspect that in their hubris they will fail to do so in time. Thus, applications diversity will increase. This may mean a world of using translator applications all the time --- or it may mean a world of public standards for word processing documents, just as we now have public standards for images (JPEG, PNG) and sound (MP3). I for one would greatly prefer the latter ...

    It's an exciting time to be in the field. Let's not blow it.

  • SSDD (Score:2)

    by remande ( 31154 )
    Let me get this straight.

    Intel is putting together a platform that is suboptimal for Windows. Microsoft is not planning to optimize Windows for that platform, but they will offer something that will limp along on it. The conclusion: this is an opportunity for alternate OSs to beat Windows.

    Will somebody explain how this "Windows running suboptimally on an Intel platform" differs one iota from the situation today? Windows running suboptimally appears to have little effect on their market share.

  • Nope the default is still DOC and XLS. You can save as XML, but only if you select "Save as Web Page"
    --

  • Here's where the 'consumer electric' model falls down as far as "Easy PCs" go. If you are on a cable system that your TV/VCR doesn't support, you have go out and buy/rent a seperate cable box and daisy chain it through channel 3 or something. We're already beyond the comprehention of Joe Sixpack here. Thank god for cable installers.

    The computer approach is to just add another software/hardware doohicky to make your computer do what it needs to. A computer (not talking about simple webtv things here) which can't do that is going to frustrate people pretty quickly, and people will get a clue and either buy a real computer or give up.

    We've already been through this in the early 80s with $200 plug-n-play boxes like the C-64 and Atari 800. Not that they weren't great machines, but when many people figured out that they needed a $300 disk drive, $200 modem, and $200 printer to do anything other than video games with them, interest dropped off.
    --

  • Re:I Know! I Know! (Score:3)

    by cpt kangarooski ( 3773 ) on Thursday July 29, 1999 @08:54AM (#1777173) Homepage
    No. Planned Easy PC flavors are: Tapioca, Cod Liver Oil, Liver and Onions, Tripe and the ever-popular Musli.
  • er, I guess I could, couldn't I? Didn't really look into anything along those lines since this was intended to be primarily a windows-centric solution for my son to use for his school projects. In fact, this has sat on his desk for the most part where he's scanned pictures and drag-dropped them into his word reports.

    I've used this exactly twice in the month that we've had this. The first time was when I lugged it upstairs to install the software on my windows partition and do a test scan with a couple wedding album shots. The second time I wanted to scan in a couple "refrigerator art" drawings my daughter had done. I got on my son's PC while he wasn't using it and just dropped the image file onto the Samba share I've set up on our server.

    I'll have to look into this. I'm not sure this would be the best solution for a couple reasons which really don't have anything to do with the suitability of SANE or anything.

    1) My son has lots more desk space than I do and he is using it more right now anyway.

    2) I'm a SCSI 'virgin' so I'm not sure I have the time right now to take the plunge, esp since my son is using it daily right now.

    3) The scanner didn't come with any SCSI hardware, I'd have to buy something.

    4) So far, the USB seems plenty fast for scanning purposes. I'm sure the SCSI is faster, but it ain't broke right now with USB.

    5) I'm wondering how well this would integrate with the windows scanning software that came with the unit (its nice, it does a preview, allows you to select a region for scanning, select the output format, scan straight to the printer - copier mode - or to a file.)

    So, yeah I could probably get by without USB, but it is a pretty damn convenient setup for now.

  • Easy PC Hardware Spec (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "legacy hardware is going to be ripped out. ...ISA, parallel, serial and floppy and substitute[d with] USB and Firewire..."

    Now I don't know about you, but I can think of a hardware platform that has already done this. And it can run linux [yellowdoglinux.com] too. This platform got a lot of flak for going to USB only. (the pro models have firewire) And in particular, they got a lot of grief over the elimination of the floppy. And whats this? Is the rest of the PC industry following suit?

    What is this mysterious platform [apple.com]?

  • I won a WinCE box. My planner is plain paper. I tried it, but found it unusable as a planner. It's sitting in my trunk now, and I carry my dead trees around all day.

    Amusingly, it's still better than on Intel. I wasn't able to crash my WinCE box...

  • Really. Just because Windows isn't ready for the PC-as-the-Internet-appliance thingy doesn't mean that Linux is ready to jump into the fray.

    The simpler-than-the-toaser-PC must, absolutely must have a user interface that's comfortable for people who are not able to find their ass with both hands and have problems dealing with their coffeemaker. These people do not really care about the stability of the OS: if there is a large clearly labeled button that will reboot the machine in 5-10 seconds with session management (reconnect to the 'net, open same documents, etc.), then these users will not have any problem with crashes.

    Linux has two strengths:

    (1) It crashes very rarely: important for people who depend on their computers (NOT casual users)

    (2) It's a tinkerer's dream -- if you don't like something, go and change it! Again, the casual users couldn't care less.

    The Easy-PC battle is going to be over user interface and nothing but user interface. This is not a strong point of Linux (though not a glaring weakness, either) and I don't see Linux developers going out of their way to develop a GUI for idiots -- and that's what's going to be needed. I am not even touching upon the scarcity of good user interface designers...

    Easy-PC is pure point-and-drool -- not a good market for Linux.

    Kaa
  • Okay, two things:

    a) Moderator: non-biased, eh? I'm sure if he had said "Will somebody explain how this "Linux running suboptimally on an Intel platform" differs one iota from the situation today? ?" He would have been moderated out. I'm saying this comment should have, but please, show us a little consistancy.

    b) I'm not sure if "Windows running suboptimally on an Intel platform" will be the window of opportunity everyone thinks it will be. Look at Wince in the Palmtop scene. Palm Computing has held them off because they came out first with a lighter, more efficient OS. Even with that in mind, a year later, it's only them and Wince.

    Where are the alternatives? Why didn't any other OS survive? Methinks it's the Microsoft name. It as recognizable in the computing world as Gap is in the clothing world, and makes marketing incredibly easy.

    The the GUI problem everyone keeps talking about is another biggie. The berlin project and the twenty other GUIs out there are nice, but MS has a polished OS _today_. Not "soon" or "in beta", but on the shelves at Walmart. Does it work well? Well...look at it this way, Corvettes run like crap, but look sexy so they sell like hotcakes. iMac, even with Apple on the rise, is still based on a platform that commands less than 10 percent of the market, but it sold 1.9 million in less than one year based largely on appearence. Most people want appliances that, among other things, look cool.

    I don't know...maybe people just want one stop shopping...not a kernal from linux, GUI from somewhere else, an office suite from eastbumblefudge...even if they buy crap from MS, at least it's consistant crap...

    Ack...I just read through this...Don't mean to sound bitchy, I just need sleep...
  • according to this article: [futurezone.orf.at] microsofts number 3 "paul maritz" is leaving the company and sold micro$oft stocks with a value of about 78,1 million dollar... he was one of the chief developers. i guess he is a smart guy and knows when to sell.. in 1 or 2 years koffice, gnumeric, abiword etc. will have reached a level where linux is a good and cheep alternative even for the most dumb users.. and they will get it preinstalled..

    greetings mond.

  • This just in (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
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  • Linux programmers have been able to create a mighty server OS, but these programmers are not going to be able to create an innovative GUI and Desktop that truly makes computers easier to use.

    Absolutely. The coders who did the Linux kernel for the most part aren't cut from the same cloth as the types of programmers who do well with issues of ergonomics or user-interface.

    However, those aren't the only types of coders that hang around in the Free Software community.

    It's only now that the basic infrastructure has solidified, that the more UI-oriented developers can really start getting to work. I can certainly see this happening with the Berlin project.

    Rogue Linux developers working independently can't create the next generation UI.

    Rogue developers working independently can't produce a usable OS kernel, either. Fortunately, that's not the way Open Source projects work.


    ---

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