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Can Linux be banned in .au? 238

cpt kangarooski writes "Well, an enterrising reporter over at Salon has found that certain blue comments in some Linux source code may make it eligible to be censored in Australia. Take a look here " Mmm...fun with censorship. Congrats go to Jamais Cascio (known as cynical around here), Slashdot reader, and author of the Salon article.
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Can Linux be banned in .au?

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    As an australian atmo, I personally feel sick and ashamed to be one. This whole bill was smuggled though while there was a tax debate, which means *no-one* heard about it - and the australian media didn't cover it either :/

    The thing that makes me sick is that this is partially feasable - Telstra (our telco, government owned) bought AARnet a few years ago, which also had the only major non-telstra overseas link. All content coming in goes through either telstra lines, or an ISP's satellite. Telstra can monitor all traffic in over their stuff (approx 80%?), and put ridiculous fines on all non-telstra ISP's (there's another rant about telstra forcing out competitors to its own isp by hiking up its dedicated line charges).

    And yes, i'm considering moving overseas :)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    If they are censoring by keyword search, then they run the risk of censoring legitimate sites, like www.whitehouse.gov or www.senate.gov. Our high school ran into trouble when its favorite censorship software blocked all of the sites the Government class needed to visit. There was also a case where a piece of software blocked all pages with 'cum' on it, cum as in Cum Laud, etc. AOL I think blocked access to 'breast' as in 'breast cancer'. I'd also worry about lawsuits if a not bad site gets blocked and someone sues about it.

    In conclusion, they must not be using a keyword block or they run real risk of looking really silly. Therefore, they must have planned to block by IP address or by sitename. Though I wonder what would happen if you spoofed www.whitehouse.gov for a few hours, they block it by IP, and then 'oops.'

    Q - What happens if someone hacks a site and puts naughty language up on it? Does that site get banned forever?

    -B
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm an Australian ./er, and up to this point I've been quite proud to be from oz. However my somewhat small confidence in our government has been completely removed by the stunt that they've pulled.

    As was said in a previous post, the government has quickly pushed the new law through the senate and completely ignored the *experts*, the nation wide protests, and the general opinion of anyone who gave a damn - oops don't want to get slashdot banned.

    We really need some drastic action down here. I don't know how a law is *removed* but I imagine it's not a quick process :-(

    What do you do when the government ignores you ? I'd be interested to find out what I can do to help our seemingly hopeless situation.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Send them pictures of wildlife like beavers.. Gothic archetecture of europe... MIT's hacks... maybe greek mythology any thing with nymph in it... Recipies with pork or those which need a pot...
    well just go through http://www.anatomy.usyd.edu.au/danny/freedom/censo rware/ifilter.html
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Actually I would suggest VIOLENT REVOLUTION. As I understand it, you don't have a constitution per se. Perhaps it is time you took back your government using whatever means are necessary and then ENACT a damn constitution to protect yourselves from this kind of crap.

    Besides, it would make for GREAT tv over here in the US!

    :)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Screw simple protesting, I say we send the tank! If they still resist, send in the army! All 3 newfies!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The Precedent:

    1. Serbia violates civil rights of Kosovar citizenry.
    2. US & NATO bombs the crap out of Serbia.

    The Case:

    1. Australian Government violates civil rights
    of Australian citizenry.
    2. ...
  • by Anonymous Coward
    amaretto and cherry are banned?
    WTF?
    "Ve muzt pertekt zhe citishenry vrom foreign fewds!!?!?!"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 07, 1999 @05:03AM (#1864041)
    > "reasonable effort" is undefined I believe

    It is extremely well defined, "reasonable" being
    a precise legal term, much like hackers regard
    "word" as a precise CPU term. Three clauses of
    the legilsation deal with "reasonable".

    Essentially, reasonable effort is the blocking of
    access to the site using the best available,
    commercially viable technology within 6pm of
    the next business day after the ABA notifies
    you that an overseas site is to be blocked.

    More worrying is that the same deadline is
    attached to an ABA direction to prevent
    access to "all similar material"!

    You miss the point with the Linux source. It
    will be rated M if it contains the word
    "fuck". The guidelines of the Office of
    Film and Literature Classificaton are clear
    (and on the web at www.oflc.gov.au).

    Linux distributors are currently breaching the
    law: (1) they are selling M-rated software
    on CD without a classification appearing on
    the CD and (2) they are selling M-rated
    material to people under 16.

    When the Broadcast Service Act amendments
    pass the House of Reps then major Linux
    sites such as mirror.aarnet.edu.au will
    also be M-rated. This isn't of much
    concern, as the age-verification steps are
    only required for R-rated material.

    None of the above means that I agree with
    the govt's stupidity (and I have been interviewed
    on AU TV and radio saying as much). But it is
    important to get the facts right, especially
    in a forum like slashdot that seems to contain
    more emotion than the considered logical
    thought that programmers are notorious for.
    People sprouting the wrong facts simply undermine
    the case for those of us arguing with the
    correct facts.

    Cheers,
    glen.turner@adelaide.edu.au
  • by Gleef ( 86 ) on Monday June 07, 1999 @02:49AM (#1864042) Homepage
    According to the article, the filtering software favored by the Ausie censors bans things with "names such as Pamela". Are they completely out of their head?!?

    I guess they don't want to hear about the international space station project (one of the Astronauts is Lt. Col. Pamela Ann Melroy [nasa.gov]).

    There goes Australian Women's Lib history, where Pamela Denoon [pcug.org.au] was apparently a major player.

    I wonder if it will also filter out info on the PAMELA Magnetic Spectrometer [uni-siegen.de], scheduled for launch two years from now.

    Do these censors have any idea how stupid they look when they suggest things like this.
  • [root@3jane] 4:54:55pm /usr/src/sys/> grep -i fuck `find . -name "*.c"`
    ./i386/isa/aic6360.c: /* Things are seriously fucked up.




    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad

  • Now I'm offended...as a person who is engaged to be married to a woman named Pamela, I deplore this kind of simple-minded thinking.

    My fiancee's friend in Australia would be unable to read her poetry, because the page is called "Pamela's Book of Poetry" and each one of the pages has her name on it, in the copyright statement.

    Incidentally, we once had her picture up on our page in an image file called "pamela.jpg". We started getting tons of hits on that one image file, probably from people looking for images of Ms. Anderson-Lee. I solved this problem by renaming the image file...

    Eric
    --


  • What's next, running strings on all binaries looking for obscene material?

    Well... the word 'binaries' itself is on the banned list ( here [usyd.edu.au]), so I guess that would be unnecessary. If they do decide to allow linux, it would have to be source-only distributions. Wonder what Microsoft will say about this.... :)

    Ah well. Other horrible (and thus banned) words: mushroom. toys. leather. newsgroup. doom. web. shy. search. fist. glamour. beer. jenny...

    Ouch. My head hurts.

  • It already is offensive in many parts of Northern Virginia. Lots and lots of people up here with a very large stick inhabiting their rectal cavity willing to go to court at the drop of a hat. This is due, in large part, to the large number of political extremists who like to hang around Congress trying to push their own agendas. I suspect other countries have a similar situitation around their lawmaking bodies, hence laws like this.
  • I think it would be hilarious if the Austrailan parlament (that is what you use down there isn't it?) suddenly had an AdultCheck id on their main site because their webmaster was named Pamela or whatever, the list of words is large enough that virtually no site with content can escape.
  • This legislation threatens us all (as a test case for liberal democracy) and MUST BE STOPPED BY ALL MEANS REASONABLE.

    What, only reasonable means? What about nice, unreasonable means such as revolution.

    Unfortunatly, Australia does not (AIUI) have a liberal democracy. Australia is like a giant prison and the politians are prison wardens. The only thing that has changed in the 211 years since its colonization is it is no longer ruled by England and the prisoners get to vote (not that it does them any good). The deomocracy is a facade.

    Thankfully, I managed to escape after 7 years `imprisonment'. actually, it wasn't quite that bad, but I could feel the oppression. I've now been in NZ for almost 5 years, and though I rather like it here, I'm starting to wander. Our `esteemed leader', Jenny Shipley (haha, she'll be banned to:), seems to be very pro oppression. She may be NZ's first female primeminister, but from what I've heard, she's very unpopular amoungst the NZ women. My point here is I'm worried about NZ following in Australia's footsteps (she's very pro christianity too (as in the oppressive sort, I realize there are more liberal sorts out there)).

  • I personally detest censorship, especially on the net, but I wish people who tried to do it would at least be smart (I know, an oxymoron..) while trying to block out 'unsuitable' stuff they're also blocking out some of the most useful resources on the Internet, like information on gothic architecture, or looking up information on a long lost relative with the first name of Pamela.

    `Jag
  • how much Australian legislation would fail to pass the filter?
  • Posted by NJViking:

    ./arch/sparc64/kernel/ptrace.c:/* Fuck me gently with a chainsaw... */
  • Posted by NJViking:

    Have you noticed most of the greps are from the sparc part of the source tree? Hehehehe..

    -= NJV =-
  • Posted by NJViking:

    Actually:
    sed s/fuck/fsck/g would do even.

  • Posted by Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper:

    I mean, they have the same censorship laws. Austrailia Online?

    --
    Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper
    Computer techie, PERL master, and all-purpose Internet guru
  • Posted by Kilbert:

    In the June 1999 issue of Linux Journal [linuxjournal.com] they had an article(page 82) about the Totalisator Administration Board(TAB) of Queensland using Linux for their betting booths. Now wouldn't censorship put all of these guys and gals' hard work to nothing? I'm sure the representitaves in Austrailia like to indulge in a little betting after the daily round of votes...but I could be wrong.

    later,
    Kilbert
  • "anarchy," "gothic," "pierced" and "tattoo?" Yeah, dangerous and harmful words if I ever had to choose them. I had no idea the legislature down there was so backwards; just why, exactly, do they feel the need for these token moral crusades? The policitians admit they know their plans aren't even close to feasable, but they're in it for the press anyway.
  • I sure hope the kids don't have to do a report on architecture. I wonder how long it will take for sentences like "Our representatives behave like Nazis" to become offensive?

  • Big fscking deal. This can be fixed easily in the next kernel release with:

    - /* Fuck Australian censorship! */
    + /* Fsck Australian censorship! */

    What's next, running strings on all binaries looking for obscene material?
  • $ grep -i 'fuck' `find /usr/src/linux -name *.h -print` /usr/src/linux/include/asm-mips/mmu_context.h:/* Fuck. The f-word is here so you can grep for it :-) */

    :)

    as for the censorship laws over here... well heh. i think there are going to be some very red faces :)

    smash
  • Anyone interested in how technology could be used to combat Australian and other censorship should check out FreeNet [ed.ac.uk].

    --

  • by jd ( 1658 )
    Actually, Linux should be safe. Comments do not exist in the binary versions, so only the source is a problem. Minimal distributions can be made binary-only, with "full" distributions including source. (That's legal, as GPL doesn't -REQUIRE- you to bundle source & binary, merely have the source available.)
  • sed s/fsck/fuck/g might cause some problems, though. ;)
  • Try this link [usyd.edu.au] for a list of words that did not pass the filter.

    Scary shit, huh?
  • If you're kid is 14 and hasn't heard those words, then something is *wrong*.

    Hey, if his kid is 14 and reading the Linux sourcecode, something is wrong...

    Or maybe right...

    Who knows.
  • Hmm, as a 14 year old, I feel offended by that comment. want me to be a windows weenie, huh? ;)

    There's a difference between using Linux and reading the Linux source :P

    I've been using Linux for a year and a half or so, and the most I've done is glaced at small parts of the source code once or twice.
  • or Middlesex come to that.

    Hmm.. I wonder if any of the Australian cricket team are playing for Essex this year?
  • Not to mention Richard Alston, the communications minister and architect of this oppressive law. I foresee a Big Brother Award for him.

    Your computer has been Alstoned.
  • If there were a fewk occurrences in the linux source tree, can you imagine the Win9x source?

    kerlel32.dll:8 /* this code fscking sucks */
    kernel32.dll:9 /* damn this fscking code */
    kernel32.dll:11 /* i am 9 years old and have been kidnapped to write fscking code - halp! */

    hah hah hahh

    coding is by nature a violent act - getting the machine to do what you want, how you want. A few explatives are bound to erupt from any given programmer.
  • Actually, the article says (close to the end):

    While this more or less answers my question about restricting Linux -- which will probably be the first operating system to be rated MA for coarse language [...]

    The US ratings system and the Aussie system are not exactly comparable. Aus-MA is *roughly* like the US-R, except that it's 15 and up (US=17/18 and up), and US-R can include harder stuff than it sounds like Aus-MA can. The US doesn't have an M rating, but it does have a PG13 rating, which seems to be a little more restrictive than an Aus-M.

    The Australian R is the weird one, because -- as I point out in the article (yeah, I'm the one who wrote it) -- it's so ambiguously broad. The entire legal description of the Australian R rating for film is:

    Film (other than X or RC) containing material that is unsuitable for minors.

    How does that apply to web content? What is "unsuitable", and who decides? My article was really just an attempt, in a semi-humorous way, to show how ridiculous censorship laws are.

    --Jamais Cascio
    My home page, with links to other articles [well.com]

  • I'm sure my post will be moderated down for the use of such language..

    Most of the people here are intelligent and have a meaningful job and are not spineless polititions trying to cover up their own lack of morals under the heat of religious nuts.

    Sometimes colorful language is a form of expression and conveys meaning that would otherwise be difficult. From the engineers I have known, the words "fuck" and "shit" and anything else you can imagine usually describes something out of the ordinary. As George Carlin would say about several bad words, "they must be outrageous to be seperated from a group that large"

    I might say that censorship is fucked. I'm expressing a strong viewpoint, not an act or depicting procreation in any evil or good form.
  • >"anarchy," "gothic," "pierced" and "tattoo?"
    Ha ha! That basically prevents people in Australia from studying
    • Russian History - Anarchists were a fairly popular party in early 20th century;
    • Gothic Architecture - let's see a Notre Dame home page blocked
    • Information on Ear Piercing - which is still acceptable for the prudes who think holes in ears are any better than holes in noses, brows, bellybuttons or wherever.
    • Information on African cultures where tatoos were commonly used for ceremonial purposes.

    As usual, the pols royally fuck up anything they do. (If I was then, I would ban any discussion of that law - just to make sure) mAx

  • LWN [lwn.net] already include an f-word analysis [lwn.net] in their October 15, 1998 kernel section [lwn.net].

    There is nothing more effective in disabling the restraint I usually exercise in my use of language than fucking political morons trying to regulate what their tiny minds cannot comprehend, and thus fear.

  • it can be found here [usyd.edu.au]. they threw a dictionary through the filter... let me list a few of the more stunning ones...

    adult
    alcohol
    amaretto
    amateur
    anarchy
    anus
    aryan
    available
    babe
    banging
    bangle
    bare
    bastard
    beaver
    beer
    bikini
    binaries
    blonde
    bloody
    bomb
    bottom
    bra
    bud
    buxom
    chat
    cherry
    chicks
    cigar
    circumcise
    conception
    condom
    destined
    doom
    dynamite
    enema
    eros
    escort
    explosive
    fantasies
    fist
    flesh
    fondle
    free
    frigid
    geisha
    gin
    girlie
    girls
    glamour
    gothic
    grenade
    gun
    hack
    hacker
    heroine [no more female heros?]
    hole
    homo
    incest
    intercourse
    jenny [???]
    kill
    killer
    kissing
    klan
    klux
    knights [???]
    knives
    ku
    latex
    leather
    lesbian
    lingerie
    liquor
    lover

    well, you get the picture... it's f***ing outrageous.


    )O(
    the Gods have a sense of humor,
  • I'll say it's deja vu.

    In my Intro to C class (Dammit Jim, I'm a graphic designer, not a programmer!) I tended to refer in my comments to certain parts of code being bitches to write properly, etc.

    Never figured out recursive loops until halfway through the exam at which point my eyes were opened and i aced that part of the test. Good timing that.

    Anyhow, I got marked down by one of the assholes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H TA's for this. I couldn't believe it!

    So I have personal experience with this. Knocked me out of my socks when I saw it on Salon.
  • Reminds me of a bit from the Pratchett/Gaiman novel Good Omens:

    ...the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.*

    *This is not actually true. The road to hell is paved with frozen door-to-door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it.

  • One version (there are a lot) of the original quote is:
    In Germany, they first came for the communists,

    and I didn't speak up
    because I wasn't a communist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up
    because I wasn't a Jew.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up
    because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak up
    because I wasn't a Catholic.
    Then they came for me -- and by that time there was nobody left to speak up for me.
    The author is Rev. Martin Niemoller [hoboes.com].

    There's a good version of it for modern times by Alara Rogers that I like, and have hanging around somewhere:

    First they came for the hackers.

    But I never did anything illegal with my computer,
    so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the pornographers.
    But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,
    so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the anonymous remailers.
    But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,
    so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for the encryption users.
    But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,
    so I didn't speak up.
    Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

    Google is really useful, let me tell you.

  • Well, one reason that people bow down to the man is that they have too much to lose. Taxes now are scads higher than they were during the times leading up to the Revolutionary War. And people accept it because, I think, they've got too much to lose. Our leaders back then were smugglers, firebrands, freethinkers....

    The two routes that the state tends to drive rebels down are to either make the burden placed on the people so great that it crosses a threshold, or to take away anything that was holding him back. A classic example: Luke is unwilling to even go to Mos Eisley with Obi-Wan, until he discovers that his aunt and uncle are dead. Then he helps bring down the Empire. Me, I'm on the threshold route myself, and while I am majorly pissed off at the government, corporations, etc. I'm not doing anything. Yet.

    Anyhow, as for Civil Disobedience, there's one thing that really cheeses me off about that. A *good* practicioner of it will break the law, and willingly accept his punishment. That's what keeps it civil, people. To break the law because the law is not just, but to accept the law because the law still deserves some respect in a general sense.
  • There's a great file [303.org] at textfiles on computer humor. This is the relevant entry:

    From: kevinf@cognos.uucp (Kevin Ferguson)

    Subject: Why you don't put program developers in PR
    Date: 15 Feb 89

    DISCLAIMER: So help me God, this is the absolute truth. I should know, because I was there.

    Many moons ago (1982), I was on contract as a P/A to one of those credit card companies that shall remain nameless. I was attached to the project that was completely rewriting the billing process. The approved implementation included a massive number of database tables that the Credit Department would maintain to control their billing cycles, appearance of the statement for different types of customers, interest charge calculation, and so on, ad nauseum.

    Well, as the project trundled on toward completion, the end user became aware of the manpower effort that would be required to initialize all of these tables. (In retrospect, their reaction was really quite excessive.) Our illustrious Project Manager said at the time, "No problem. We'll just promote the TestBed environment." I'm sure that you can imagine our reaction, as the mischievous minds of programmers tend to generate humorous testing environments.

    Sure enough, despite all of the programmers's and testers's objections, the TestBed environment was promoted to Production "...with those changes that are deemed necessary by the Credit Department." Apparently, they did not catch all of the "necessary changes" because in the first week, the Credit Department mailed 1,500 statements to delinquent customers with the Reminder Notice: "Pay up, or we'll rape your wife."

    Judging by the memo that was distributed to the MIS Department following this debacle, the rest of the organization failed to see the humor in this.

  • Am i the only person who wondered WTF a sound format had to do with Linux getting banned?

    rOD!

    --

  • When I read Stallman's paper ( The URL again [fsf.org]), I got the impression that when he removed the obscenities from the GNU Emacs source code, he wasn't really afraid that he'd face a quarter-million-dollar fine and five years in prison if he failed to do so.

    I thought it was pretty obvious that he was more making fun of the stupidity of the law, as well as, more seriously, arguing how truly bad it was, by pointing out what anybody, even Senator Exon, must see as an absurd consequence.

    I am partly responding to a couple of posts above, which seem to be responding in genuine fear to the possibility that the Linux source code would be banned in Australia. This is obviously absurd, and I got the impression that this article also was using this example to show how awful the law is, but not actually suggesting that it would happen. It's not "When we put in these filters, Linux source will be blocked," but rather "If we were to put in these filters, Linux source would be blocked, so we clearly cannot do that."

    Then again, it often happens that just when I think I've become entirely disillusioned, something happens that shocks me anyway, showing that I still had some ideals left -- something that I thought was plain common sense actually turns out to be idealism. Could this be the case here? I mean, what kind of idiots have you got running things down there? Or do I not want to know?

    David Gould

  • Check out Richard Stallman's response to the USA's Communications Decency Act of 1996:
    Censoring My Software [fsf.org]

    He found himself in the same situation. The gist is that the GNU Emacs package includes a copy of Weizenbaum's Eliza program, which has a feature to detect profane and obscene words and admonish the user to "watch your language, please". Of course, in order for this to work, the code has to contain a list of such words, which makes it obscene.

    So, RMS distributed a special CDA-compliant version, whose Doctor program had that feature removed. Ironically, this means that if you swear at the new version, it will swear back at you, where the "obscene" version would not.

    I suppose this would have applied to Linux source as well, but GNU Emacs is the example that he chose to focus on at the time, and it works for the Australian situation now, as well. In a way, it is an even better example than the Linux source, because in Eliza, the obscenities are actually integral parts of the program's function, and especially because of the irony of the fact that removing them actually makes it possible for the program to output obscenities.

    David Gould
  • ...have no fear.

    Value of Serbian Economy to US economy...

    Value of Australian Economy to US economy...

    The US tends to not strike out against trading partners...

    ...which explains why we sit on our hands while Pakistan and India (with China in the wings) with WWIII, as we'll be sucked in one way or the other...
  • That's me fscked then :

    http://www.incubation.demon.co.uk/

    ... should show why.

    But anyway, what about gothic architecture?
    Literature? I know some Ann Radcliffe (18th
    century novelist) is a bit arse, but this is
    plain daft.


    Chris Wareham
  • In the highly unlikely event that this would actually be a problem, sed s/fuck/mess/g woyld probably be simple cure.

    I'm a bit shocked to find out that words such as tattoo, pierced and even Pamela are on the to-be-blocked lists though. I see the relation between those words and the filthy material.. but then we could block almost every word including Bill, Monica, cigar, president, beach... and of course all biological references to certain bodyparts.

    Censorship based on words only is not only wrong, but also stupid.
  • Here now, I was just trying to read about Australian stupidity, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
  • What do you do when the government ignores you?

    I don't know, but when you figure it out let me know because our government in the US doesn't listen to a word I say--I'm not in the majority you see.
  • Why not ban MS file formats altogether? I mean, if we are going to censor let's censor something that actually does damage: non-standard "standards." Certainly does a lot more damage than Pamela and "available" (come on...available?)
  • My preference would be to have an install option that provides either the original unexpurgated source, or a bowdlerized-to-your-preference version (fsck, mess, etc as others have suggested). Bring this out in the open, make it really explicit and obvious, part of the main install routine. Shine the light of open inquiry full on it, encourage debate, smile when the censors whine and say, "Yes, and your point is?"
  • Indeed, that's the biggest reason I'd like to see the Windows source made public despite my wish that the gubmint would laissez frigging faire already... I want to see all those juicy comments! As a non programmer I made a hobby out of collecting fun comments and error messages... Lost my collection of comments, still have the other. Another public archive should be started of these, perhaps.
  • When relatively trivial behavior is declared a crime, everyone and their brother with a lick of good sense and principles -- as well as those who have nothing better to do, and those for whom rebellion is a trivial hobby rather than a thoughtful lifestyle -- will jump at the opportunity to safely show their Resistance to The Man. When the CDA originally passed, hundreds of Usenetters added "ObObscenities" to their signatures.

    But how many have the guts to smoke a joint or shoot heroin on the courthouse steps? Or give out free needles/food/bibles/whatever without a "permit"? Or help human beings escape from tyranny to potential freedom? Or stand in front of the tanks even when they know their chances are Slim to None?

    Victimless crime laws encourage general disrespect for law, and deservedly so. The more petty and harmless the "crime", the more the public is treated like a child, the more it will start acting like one; and the greater the crackdown, the greater the numbers and extent of the backlash. But when it comes to the big issues, it takes an explicit gun in the face for some people to Just Say No...and all too many meekly, willingly cooperate in their own enslavement and destruction. As James Donald said on Cypherpunks [alt.cypherpunks], if just one "tax serf" out of every hundred said No to the IRS and backed it up when pushed to the wall, the house of cards would collapse.

    This reminds me of Jamie McCarthy's [mccarthy.org] take on modern-day "civil disobedience" in (Computer Underground Digest? Politech? Can't find the article offhand). Instead of taking the risks of getting hammered with firehoses and tear gas, today's rebels try to overload web servers and scribble/urinate on the pages contained therein. How long before "civil disobedience" becomes a banned search term somewhere? What about places where people WISH that was all they had to worry about?

    Having said all that, as someone else (Will Rodgers?) said, "Profanity is the crutch of the ignorant, but every once in a while you've got to talk to one of those ignorant motherfuckers."

  • Oh, you just had to throw in a StarWars reference. AIee!

    Each situation and person are different, so we each look at our circumstances (and sometimes our principles) to make a decision. Sometimes it's best to be as public as possible, go along with the system except where it would egregiously violate other rights you have in the courtroom, and "work within the system". One can always make a case for a given situation that the utility and/or morality of remaining free to continuously "break the law" is greater than that which might be served by fighting a public battle against both the guns of the government and the tides of public opinion, depending on the offense in question and how one's chosen physical community views the "crime" -- witness the end of the movie _Homegrown_ -- the pot growers lose their stash before selling it, but the actions of the crowd of bystanders save them from being apprehended as they are "absorbed into" the crowd. Very nice, effectively shot scene; on the other hand, the average geek who doesn't talk much to his neighbors would have few friends to help him out if he's accused of pirating/warez/viruses/etc. Also, some people may not care about how their freedom affects the rest of the world in any positive way -- all they want is the negative, to be left alone and return the courtesy -- but the impulses of charity and cooperation are just as strong, and actually burn brighter when not forced upon us.

    I do think that public resistance is more often than not both more effective and more appropriate, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone else to choose differently as long as they were harming none through their actions. "Juris precepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique." (These are the precepts of Law: To live honorably, to hurt no one, to render everyone their due.) It also helps that if done properly, legal battle can have a very effective cost-benefit ratio; the downside is that generally it only makes a difference for the specific individual in that case, since most really juicy cases get thrown out one way or another before advancing high enough to set any real precedent of substance for the populace at large.

    But then again, there really isn't one person in a hundred that really wants to be free. Anarchy and chaos without "the right laws"? Poppycock. Just more respect for law, and more lawful behavior... all it takes is reversing the trends of the "law enforcement growth industry" (more laws, more laws, until everyone's a criminal).

  • Latex is banned... So that means you can't use the LaTeX typesetting language anymore?

    This would be funny if it wasn't so incredibly stupid.

  • How many web servers are going to serve up the Linux source? I doubt that it will be many.
    The article states that the new law will apply content served by web servers, or this yet another case of people assuming that "web" and "internet" are synonymous?
  • >F*ck is _never_ a proper engineering term. I'm against censorship, and definitily not a prig -- but I'm surprised that
    >someone smart enough to kernel-hack has such a small vocabulary.

    At my job for a now-defunct telephony equipment vendor, one of the engineers showed me some source code with ``unprofessional" comments in it. In a nutshell, one of the programmers had used potty-language in the opening comments to vent frustration about some aspect of the project.

    And a friend of mine, who writes Cobal for a living, once told me a tale or two about the comments he found in the code he had to maintain.

    And then there was some suspicion that one reason it took Netscape so long to release the source code to their browser was that they had to grep for naughty words in the comments. Anyone want to bet that DOS/Windows/Windows NT is entirely free of said comments?

    When's it's 3:00am after an 18- or 20-hour shift, & a programmer has spent half of that banging your head against a wall, I sincerely doubt he (or she) will mince his/her words in the documentation. Just be glad he or she has commented the difficult spots!


    Geoff

  • Before I became an adult, I used to like these amaretto cookies. Of course, they don't have any alcohol in them, so they are available at any grocer's.

    Meanwhile, I am an amateur musician. The cables running around my keyboards and synths look like anarchy itself. I don't play that much anymore. We have a friend living with us who has a babe of 10 months who just loves banging on things. She crawls around in her bare feet and likes watching leave it to beaver.

    I'm afraid I have a bit of a beer belly, so I don't wear the bikini style swimsuits I did in high school. I guess that's what happens when you sit around compiling source code into binaries instead of throwing a long bomb on the football field. Oh well, I haven't hit bottom yet, while my wife is no blonde bombshell, she's pretty good looking.

    My bud and I were chatting the other day about how he should get one of those bra things for the front of his cherry red corvette. Then his twin girls came out to show us pictures of the the baby chicks they had hatched at school.

    I'm kinda glad I don't live in Oz -- I'd never be able to put out the San Francisco Free List [sinasohn.com].

  • Okay, I know I'm probably wrong, but isn't this filer only applicable to the search engine http://www.iseek.com.au ?

    Unless the government bans foreign search engines, the filter list is not a problem. Sites will be banned based on ratings by the ABA (i think). Also, AFIK the legislation doesn't mention filter lists anywhere.

    Of course having said that, We're still fucked hdown here. (of course the definition of ISP in the legislation is one that supplies content to the PUBLIC. Setup a private ISP and you shouldn't have filtering problems. I don't think the Legislation mentions filtering on the backbone...
  • I'm also an Aussie ./er, and I think that soon we may need the help of hackers overseas to try to beat this law.

    We'll need plenty of public proxy servers to get around this law and prove to these dickless people that you can't censor the net.

    You'll be doing yourself a favour too if you help. Think what would happen if censorship in Australia actually worked: it'd become a precedent for other countries to follow suit, and before long you may find yourself also under censorship.

    This is much bigger than just Australia!
  • Don't forget "naked" and "Venus." There was even an article in Sky & Telescope that described the editor's test of net-watching programs on the S&T site, which contained sentences like "On a clear night, the planet Venus is able to be seen with the naked eye."

    Needless to say, the site was blocked by nearly all of the programs.
  • Kernel.org offers http downloads.
  • Then perhaps some X rated JPGs need to be encoded in the Linux source so it IS deemed offensive.

    As I see it, Linux is a big economic benefit to Australia right now. Causing Linux to be illegal in Australia would slap some idiot legislators upside the head with the realities of their stupidity.

  • Why the does this all sound like eastern europe to me ;-)
    A state ISP and a "supposedly not state" academic network. All eastern europe countries used to be like that ;-)
    I will not comment on how did this influence their Internet development ;-)
  • Oh great, now the cat is out of the bag. Soon they will discover that the entire source of Linux is actually a heavily encrypted MPEG featuring bill Clinton in compromising positions with various Little Rock secretaries.

    -josh
  • ONCE AGAIN...

    Use of vulgarities is not an indication of a small vocabulary. It is use of expressive words. Nothing more, nothing less. You obviously don't know enough people with large word lists.

  • my arms are banned in Australia is that what they are saying? boy that is a muffed up country ...
  • Interestingly enough, a quick search on hotbot returned over 4,000 hits for "Pamela Australia history" I can definitely see the social advantage of blocking out educational material, people might accidently learn something.
  • I remember using a commercial software package (microMPX, I believe) that spawned a process called "pukeserver" and installed a directory appropriately named "sh*t", among other unsavory things. These were later modified to less colorful names, a process they even thought to document in the change notes.
  • The config option to enable BSD compatibility in networking used to be something like this, but It was only for a couple of patchlevels in the 0.99pl14 or 0.99pl15 days. I know I got a huge laugh out of it. Put those FreeBSD'ers in their place too.. ( :-) for the sarcasm impaired )

    -Rich
  • There's been several comments about how Australia needs to change its laws concerning profanity. As I doubt that the hordes of Slashdot readers will fly down under, register, and vote in new laws to sanction profanity in source code, the only other option I see is to remove the off-color comments.

    "Blasphemy!" and "That's censorship!" you may say. But what's more important to you? To get source code out into more hands, or your right to cuss? I like cussing too, but one day when your kids ask you what you did when you were young, do you want to tell them that you got source code out into the hands of programmers worldwide, or that you fought for your rights to put cusswords in source code?
  • But...

    Hell, I thought "fucked" *WAS* a valid engineering term! Like, "This unit is totally fucked."

    But there's no excuse for using bad language. Mommy Govt will wash you widdle mouf out with soap, kiddies...



  • Hmmm... Maybe that's why Calderra has been so
    quiet lately - all their programmers, looking through the source of Win95 for evidence for their lawsuit have died laughing.
  • Well, this new dictionary is only 15 years overdue... (1984->1999)
  • So I guess any references to my old Ford Escort are right out!

    Eric
    • Could they ban /usr/dict, if it contains the word sex and is (possibly accidentally) made available online?
    • Is it illegal to provide updates to filtering software online (after all, it must contain the words to filter, which would be illegal)?
    • Can you go to prison for misspelling the words "sax", "duck" ("D" is close to "F" on qwerty), or promoting "violins?"
    • Can I get all of slashdot fucking banned just by doing this?
    • I think there are a LOT of thing .aus needs to consider. :-)
  • There was no public debate on this stupid legislation in Australia. It was snuck in to buy a vote from a a morals campaigner so a new tax could be introduced and will probably be overturned by the next government before it is ever put into effect.

    I believe our politicians think the Web and the Internet are the same thing so although Slashdot might be blacklisted we should still be able to FTP or email kernel sources.

    I don't think there will be many people left to download linux after the cultural revolution. Without freedom of speech that is where we are headed.

    Still if we had a true democracy, shit like this wouldn't have passed into law in the first place.
  • FYI: its .au as in the top level domain for Australia...
    ---
    Ilmari
    Remove the capital letters from the e-mail-address
  • by rde ( 17364 )
    Didn't this first appear on segfault.org? I've seen it a few places since, but it's still good to see Salon getting in on the act.
    Imagine if the inclusion of the w*rd fuck were a reason for banning something in the eyes of these bastions of democracy. We'd see e-texts of Lady Chatterly's Lover being banned while the print version is readily available. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to think of myriad other examples of this sort of asininity (if that's a word).
  • However, it would be more difficult to perform age verification for the source if it were not bundled with the binaries.

    Just my 2 cents. (Give or take a penny.)

    Rev. Lewellyn
  • OK... I just went through and did a 'grep -r fuck *' in the 2.3.5 source tree. Out of 21 matches (well 24 really, but 3 were just duplications between drivers/scsi/esp.c and drivers/scsi/NCR53C9x.c so I won't include them): 2 were IRIX-specific (of all things!), 4 were Sparc and 5 were Sun. That makes a total of 9 Sun 'fuck's. That's about 42%, any magic here?

    Damn, just wasted another 2 cents that I don't have...

    Rev. Lewellyn

    BTW, my favorite line is:
    arch/mips/kernel/irixioctl.c: * irixioctl.c: A fucking mess...
  • by Admiral ( 17896 ) on Monday June 07, 1999 @03:59AM (#1864120)
    Don't believe everything you read :)

    From what I've read over here in Aus the legislation isn't exactly well put together. An ISP only has to make a "reasonable effort" to block a site when requested. "reasonable effort" is undefined I believe.

    Also, for a site to be blocked/taken down (depending if it's overseas or australian), the Australian Broadcasting Authority has to receive a few complaints about the content on a site. It will then ask the Classification Board to give the site a classification - same as used for films. If the site is given R (18+), then some form of adult verification must be installed.. again, undefined. If the site is rated X, or RC (banned), then the site is to be taken down if Australian, or blocked if overseas.

    It's fairly obvious that this is unworkable, and I think it will die fairly quickly. All you'd need to do is send the output of an Altavista search on "free XXX" to the ABA and claim it offends you, and the ABA now has a few years of work ahead of them. I don't exactly think they'll appreciate it either..

    The filter software mentioned in the article is what was presented to govt to show them that it was all possible.. No one actually has to use that software afaik.

    Oh and I don't think the linux sources are in much danger. The ABA is pretty tolerant of swearing in film and tv in Australia - much more than in the US. It would take a fair bit of language alone to get given an R rating here :)

    This Salon article [salonmagazine.com] has a bit more info..

    Glyn.
  • total change of subject here people but, in reference to:

    > This whole bill was smuggled though while there > was a tax debate.

    A similar ploy was recently adopted by the European Union to enable people accused to pan-European fraud to be arrested and taken to any other member country. The law was created in a mainland country and totally undermines one the basic tenants of British (and virtually any other country who's judicial system is based on it) common law - Habius Corpus (badly spelling attack).

    What this means is that somebody can be arrested in Britain or Ireland can face illegal imprisonment, be succeptible to "guilty until proved innocent".

    How did they do it? They hid the documentation amongst a load of boring Budget proposal, and all the British MEPs who no doubt had a big fat lunch on expenses to go to, just signed it away.

    Ah... And we pay for these fuckwits.


    Mark.
  • (+the) :P

    i remember looking for 'swearwords' in the dictionary at school when i was eight.. should the school be closed down for allowing me to see this...
    no!
    because I found out that all the words had meanings (duh) which have no relevance to slang.. eg bloody etc. perhaps something might be refering to the act of intercourse (oh no.. the censor police are coming) (not that i'd see any use in source code).
    I feel if they're not going to ban every word the oxford dictionary. they shouldn't ban any at all.
    cos how about if i find the word 'cup' offensive will they go about banning that too?

    even tho this article is about Ozzie, all[?] countries have their own censorship laws and they are getting worse...

    its sad, when we like to call outselves 'free' we have so many restrictions
  • Not a workday goes by that I haven't used "Fuck" multiple times, often with great vigor. It is an integral part of the software engineering field.
  • If you don't think that 'fucked' can be a correct description of a situation, you haven't seen really fucked up code yet... :)

    Besides, you are complaining that kernel hackers have small vocabulary -- so you want to restrict it further?

    Kaa
  • Think before you post.

    Kaa
  • by Kaa ( 21510 ) on Monday June 07, 1999 @04:36AM (#1864136) Homepage
    Sure the whole thing is unworkable. I wouldn't be so cavalier about its effects, though. I don't know how reasonable the Australian legal system is, but in the US at least the threat of lawsuits does wonders for scaring people into over-compliance. Does an ISP really want to spend time and money (a lot of money) in court arguing that not blocking a site outright was a "reasonable" effort on its part? Probably not. When in doubt, do the safe thing.

    This is similar to making a hard car speed limit of 20 mph. Sure, it's unenforceable and will not work, but now the police will have full justification to stop anyone whom they did not like (as in "he didn't look at us with proper respect"). Pissed at an Aussie ISP or just think that sex for pleasure should be banned? Call the police and complain that you searched for "Jenny" and found Jennycam. Why wasn't it blocked? Repeat at will and soon there would be great incentive for the ISPs to block everything but disney.com.

    Kaa
  • Files which contain fuck in the linux source tree:
    • /usr/src/linux/lib/vsprintf.c
    • /usr/src/linux/drivers/net/sunhme.c :821
      /* Only Sun can take such nice parts and fuck up the programming interface like this. Good job guys...
    • /usr/src/linux/drivers/block/cmd640.c :15
      * These chips are basically fucked by design, and getting this driver
      * to work on every motherboard design that uses this screwed chip seems
      * bloody well impossible. However, we're still trying.
    • /usr/src/linux/drivers/scsi/esp.c :2420
      /* I think I have things working here correctly. Even partial transfers
      * within a buffer or sub-buffer should not upset us at all no matter
      * how bad the target and/or ESP fucks things up.
      */
    • /usr/src/linux/drivers/scsi/NCR53C9x.c:2589
      /* Be careful, we could really get fucked during synchronous
      * data transfers if we try to flush the fifo now.
    • /usr/src/linux/drivers/cdrom/sbpcd.c :4827
      /* take out our request so no other */
      /* task can fuck it up GTL */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/i386/kernel/mtrr.c
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/process.c
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/sunos_ioctl.c :65
      /* Binary compatibility is good American knowhow fuckin' up. */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/mips/kernel/irixelf.c :813
      /* XXX No fucking way dude... */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/mips/kernel/irixioctl.c
      * irixioctl.c: A fucking mess...
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/mips/sgi/kernel/setup.c
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/mips/sgi/prom/tags.c
      /* XXX This tag thing is a fucking rats nest, I'm very inclined to completely
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc64/kernel/process.c
    • /usr/src/linux/fs/binfmt_aout.c
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/ptrace.c :285
      /* Fuck me gently with a chainsaw... */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc64/kernel/ptrace.c :335
      /* Fuck me gently with a chainsaw... */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc64/kernel/binfmt_aout32 .c:286
      /* Fuck me plenty... */
    • /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc64/mm/init.c :797
      /* Fucking losing PROM has more mappings in the TLB, but
      * it (conveniently) fails to mention any of these in the
      * translations property.

    English is not my 1st language, but AFAIK these are common expressions of frustration

  • How in the world did it occur to anyone to grep the source code for four-letter words?

    I mean -- I've been bored before, but I would usually read a book or something. :)
  • ...that the .au format should be banned. :)

    (Ok, ok, it's not the .au format that caused me grief as much as it's the old Java sound API. It only recognized 8-bit mu-Law encoded .au files. Wait, it gets better. The only sample rate it understood was something like 8Khz. Not 11Khz, not 22.5Khz, -- 8! Took me FOREVER to find that out, but I digress.....)
  • A filtering system supported by the backers of the Australian law may give us some clues. Among the words the software blocks are the terms "anarchy," "gothic," "pierced" and "tattoo," along with the usual run of sexual terms and names such as Pamela.

    So if my name happens to be Pamela, I'm going to find my content banned in Australia? If I mention that my office environment is "total anarchy", the message will be silently dropped? This is why I find net censorship abhorant. This is as braindead as when an early version of the CDA tried to ban the word breast.

    If the name Pamela is in the filter, I vote we also put in the names of a few Australian government officials that I find offensive.

    Thad

  • huh?

    aarnet [the australian academic research network] is a high-speed network linking the universities in australia together. since about two years ago they switched to buying their bandwidth from Cable & Wiress Optus [2nd biggest telco in australia].

    C&W Optus have their own very fat pipes out of australia. Since getting into the wholesale bandwidth game you'll find C&W Optus actually have a pretty substantial market share [they're Ozemail's upline provider for one].

    So hey, relax. And stop looking at all that /*rude*/ code!



  • The two players in the game are John Howard (our illustrious Prime Minister) and Senator Brian Harradine, a Victorian-era spinster type on a morals crusade. It wouldn't matter much, except Sen Harridine held the balance of power in our federal senate (ie, if the government wanted to pass any legislation, they needed his vote). Little Johnny Howard, snake in the grass that he is, needed to pass the GST (another kettle of fish, basically a very reactionary tax) so in order to get Harradine's vote, he put together the wonderful Broadcasting Services (Online Services) Bill, knowing that sort of crap appealed to him. Unfortunately for little Johnny, even though the Online Services passed, Harridine still announced he would NOT vote for the GST. Fortunately, Harridine has since lost the balance of power, but we are still stuck with the bloody censorship bill....
  • Fuck has to be an engineering term. I work in a room full of us engineers and I hear that term an awful lot. I believe its not quite as popular as "Piece of shit computer" which really is aimed at one of the more popular :-( operating systems

Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is steep, but at least you only have to climb it once.

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