VA on Upside 63
wendell wrote in to send
us an interesting little article
about VA Linux Systems
and how the Linux companies are hiring major free software
developers.
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VA on Upside
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Business is a good game -- lots of competition and minimum of rules. You keep score with money. -- Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari
Inside the Tornado (Score:1)
the Tornando", a Silicon Valley
staple. According to Geoffry, when
a market (in this case, the Linux
white-box market) reaches the
hypergrowth stage (the Tornado),
the most important thing is to add
as many new customers as quickly as
you can.
Even if you piss off 1 of 3 buyers in
the process, because you don't have
enough resources to make every customer
happy, its OK, because the two happy
customers have been "acquired" not for
one sale, but for possibly hundreds over
their lifetime.
Quality products and services come later --
once the growth tapers off. It has to
come soon enough so that all your
acquired customers don't get pissed off
and leave too.
Case study here is DBMS -- Oracle locked
in lots of customers and treated them
really badly in the process when the
DBMS Tornado happened. Some of their
competitors slowed down sales in order
to treat each customer better. Those
competitors are all dead and dying
(this was when IBM was mainframe only
and Microsoft wasn't a DB company
All I'm saying is, your experience is more
a byproduct of the hypergrowth than of VA
(or any of its competitors) being shoddy or
evil
VA and "professionalism" (Score:1)
Basically they know we give a fuck. Nice choice of words. Very professional image.
We knew! (Score:4)
They like VA. So do I, especially when they get some laptops!
ira
Something's wrong here (Score:2)
However, Mike Holve's posts concerning the late/absent delivery of equipment that he ordered from VA is not flame-bait. His tone could have been nicer, but he seems to have a legitimate complaint. A company can hire all the great programmers in the world, but if they neglect the customer, they will ultimately lose. This point is important! Fortunately, Chris D. has responded to Holve's in a very nice manner.
I been a reader at
We worry about that too. (Score:2)
One of the things we faced in growing was that people who were experts in manufacturing or such were perhaps not from the linux community, so we have had to have them drink our brand of kool aid.
A couple of them didn't get it at first, but they came around. It has been important to VA that as we grow that we hire a ton of linux people to keep the balance even, and we feel that we've done a great job.
Chris
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
My opinion on this (Score:1)
-1: Totally inappropriate flamebait and useless crap. If it may be useful to someone give it a 0
0: Comments may be useful to some people but aren't exactly groundbreaking and relavant.
1: The vast majority of comments
2+: Comments that stand out from the crowd.
What I think has happened with the new system. Moderators now get a pull down menu and they then rate comments based on their view of them (flamebait, troll, insightful, etc) meaning that minor flamebait may quickly be moved down to -1 while only a slightly interesting article may make it up to 5 quickly when it deserved a 2.
TAKE NOTE: moderators please check the current score before moderating a post. If you agree the score is correct then *don't* select a moderation option as this will then alter the score either up or down depending on what you slect. I preferred the old method as it was clear that you were adding or deducting points from people this method just looks like a rating system by the people who don't check up on it.
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Corporate Violation (Score:4)
I like the idea that all these powerplayers are getting totally immersed in linux development. That can only serve to better the community. However, I think these companies need to make sure that their employees work well together as a team. I don't think there needs to be a distinction between team players and superstars. A person can be both.
Also, I'm a tad bit skeptical on having total linux development go into the hands of a corporation. I suppose I'm a bit of a Stallmanist. I feel that Linux definately needs to remain a community oriented project. So far it's going well. But as we dawn a new era of Linux development, I feel it's key to remain non-corporate.
Re:My opinion on this (Score:1)
1. People seem to be positing a lot more pointless messages to use up peoples moderator points.
2. Moderators are making bad decisions. Sometimes they moderate up a discussion that has already got the appropriate score and other times thjey modeate down a post with an already appropriate score.
Can you please check the present score before moderating a comments.
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Open Source Doesn't Pay (Score:2)
That should NOT have been moderated down.
> Thats not saying that you can NOT pay a hacker a good salary though;
Well, you can't. You can probably make a reasonable wage working for VA, or Red Hat, but you'll always be able to get more money elsewhere. In the big corporate world, a good programmer will get six digits a year easily. Well into six digits.
> just that it's not the most important thing.
Yes, but money talks, and it what puts the food on the table. Until open source jobs pay the same as the rest of the industry, I'll just have to make do with hacking for a couple of hours each week. I would certainly jump at the chance to work on open source projects - Linux mainly. But, that's not going to happen, at least with the way things are right now.
Re:VA and "professionalism" (Score:1)
Chris, buddy, as far as I can see you have great passion for Linux development... fantastic... but for your sake don't make that mistake again, whether it be doing "Linux" things or whatever.
We all make these mistakes. That was a biggie, Chris... stay focused.
Cheers
AndyM
Value added (Score:2)
When you buy a VA machine, you know you're getting components that run well with Linux (as vs. components that run well with NT, that might run crappy with Linux -- like the Dell that MindCraft used to out-benchmark Linux), and you know that you have access to big-name talent if you run into driver problems or something else of that nature. If you buy a Dell... well, Dell knows NT, but Dell doesn't know Linux.
This isn't enough to make VA a compelling buy at the low end, but for people wanting mission-critical Linux servers, they want to buy those from a company that has Linux expertise, not from Joe's Screwdriver Shop or Dell NT Systems.
Note: I don't work for VA or any Linux hardware vendor, and have no reason to hype VA (I'm now working for a software vendor as a database programmer and system administrator, my true love). That doesn't change the "facts on the ground", which is that when people want mission-critical Linux servers, they don't buy them from Bob's Screwdriver Shop.
Re:VA and "professionalism" (Score:1)
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
potential$ == (oss knowledge + industry need) (Score:1)
Working on Linux for a living (Score:4)
I left Digital Domain because I had the opportunity to do good work for Linux on something I cared about (3D support). That was my motivation.
I did my job hunting at Linux World. I picked a few key people and companies that I wanted to talk to and mentioned that I was thinking of moving on. The response I got was extremely positive.
I knew I could have my pick, so I took my time and decided what was important to me. I wasn't concerned about the money. I knew all the companies would offer me "enough." I was looking for where I could do the most good, and have the most fun doing it.
For what I wanted to do Precision Insight had the right mix. I get to work from home. They are leading the charge in 3D. It's a great group of people that would have been difficult to assemble in one place.
So, I'm very pleased with how it all worked out. I get what I want and Linux moves forward in the process.
- |Daryll
Re:Corporate Violation (Score:3)
just my two cents
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Re:Inside the Tornado (Score:1)
Hypergrowth is very tricky though, I mean, I started in november and va has sextupled in size. Sheeze.
Chris
VA Linux Systems.
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Ouch, reading with threshold=-1 make brain hurt (Score:4)
So listen up, if you really are a part of the 'Linux Revolution,' put aside the ego and the petty jealousy and take a civil tone when you write, especially if you are mad about something. A calm tone will get you much further than the cleverest irate rant will.
And writing better code will take you further than that.
Re:Open Source Doesn't Pay (Score:2)
It's like some people turn to politics because they think they can make a difference to the world. I turn to hacking because I think I can make a difference; it has given my life a meaning and I'd go millions of miles out of my way to be able to continue with supporting the free software community. EVEN if it means living on a minimal vage.
Only kernel level development and very basic servi (Score:1)
VA Sucks! (Score:2)
Matter of fact, the fourth or fifth "delivery date" (the latest one) was supposed to be today. It's after 5pm. I don't have my machine. AGAIN.
hi All, Larry is not an Alien. (Score:1)
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:Something's wrong here (Score:2)
not "enough said" (Score:1)
I'm not getting your cryptic reference. Who is "a prominent Australian Linux guru"?
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Prominant Austrailian Linux Gurn (Score:1)
Chris DiBona
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:Yes he is an alien! (Score:1)
Moderation is starting to look worse and worse to me (which is why i read at -1).
Re:not "enough said" (Score:1)
Re:Ouch, reading with threshold=-1 make brain hurt (Score:1)
Re:VA and "professionalism" (Score:1)
Re:Corporate Violation (Score:4)
We have the same debates here too, to wit:
Will the influences of companies, even hard core linux companies like VA, cause the creative spirit behind linux and it's advances to die a death of ennui?
We , obviously, hope the answer is no, and we have taken the course of hiring coding gods like mandrake and mark and such as a way of sort of building a hot house of linux development, we think that any negatives that may be imposed in a corporate setting (which we have done our best to minimize) are more than made up by the proximity (yes phyiscal, and yes, I know about IRC :-) of other, well, brilliant linux hackers.
We also think that by having these guys work full time on Linux results in ,well, more Linux. I mean I think we can all agree that Linux has come an amazing distance with what amounts to as spare and part time work, so imagine what it will be like with people working full time.
Anyhow, enough philosophy, back to coding.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:VA and "professionalism" (Score:1)
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Re:Something's wrong here (Score:1)
Hi Sam! (Score:1)
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Bad comparisons in the article... (Score:2)
To be successful in the Open Source community means you have to be a team player, IMHO. These people are probably as much superstars because they're great team players as they are because they're *damn good* at what they do. I'm sure MS has some really smart people - It just seems that no one there is very much of a team player, which is probably partly a function of their corporate environment, which seems to be driven by $$$ not only on a corporate level, but on and individual employee level, too.
Re:potential$ == (oss knowledge + industry need) (Score:1)
Re:VA Sucks! (Score:1)
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:The game of money (Score:1)
Haven't you ever even thought about it? Getting paid ridiculous sums of money to persue your hobby in a professional environment where you have the budget for and access to equipment a hobbyist can only dream of? Maybe I'm just not a true hacker. But if being a hacker means doing what I do now and maybe not getting paid for it, you can have it. I'll stick to my business contracts and $130k annual income thank you.
The game of money (Score:5)
I know I've posted this before, but you really should check out ``Studies Find Reward Often No Motivator'' [gnu.org].
One of the conclusions of that article is that if money is seen as a reason for doing something, that task will suddenly become less interesting to do. I can't even remember the last time I did something for money; it's just too hard a struggle to become motivated to do something that doesn't interest you, even if the reward is money so you can live for another year.
Thats not saying that you can NOT pay a hacker a good salary though; just that it's not the most important thing. When it comes to money, the importance is that you get enough money so that you can pay your rent, food and buy some interesting toys to play with on your spare time (if you have any). Once that goal is reached, the next issue is about what kind of tasks that the work would involve. I tend to think that hackers are more agressive in this area because many of them often have a very well laid out idea of what they want to do and they'd rather be unemployed than be forced to go out of their way to fit into the company.
Hackers are an easy prey. If someone came to me and asked me if I'd like to for VA, I'm pretty sure I'd jump on that train. The reasons should be obvious; these companies create an athmosphere much like that of the Homebrew Computer Club and other similar organisations, such as all local Linux-based clubs. Being in such an athmosphere is in itself very motivating and interesting and I'd recommend it to anyone out there who gets the chance.
Whap happens when you sell out... (Score:2)
It's all about cool toys...
I think it's great that hackers are getting paid to do what they love. Another post mentioned that all the stuff they develop is licensed under GPL, BSD, etc, and released back into the community. So what you get is the badasses working full-time to make things better and everyone benefits. I think this is a good example of how an "open source business model" works. More on the side of how the model can work for the workers, not necesarrily the stockholders. It's worth enough to companies to keep developement going that they hire what are basically community programmers (not programming for the company, but for the community at large). It's also been (being) shown that a well-developed and supported BRAND NAME is worth investing in. And how is a brand supported...SERVICE. You reach a point, because of the minor cost of the product itself, that a large percentage of revenue is directed at the one thing that sets you apart from the competition..service.
Or maybe marketing, we'll have to wait and see
(although I think more people are realizing that being told what a great OS you have is not necessarily reflective how great your OS is)
Re:VA sucks rocks. (Score:1)
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:Corporate Violation (Score:3)
collection, SuSE have some
I don't think there is a monopoly problem. Any
vendor doing serious commercial support needs a
pet hacker.
Curiousity questions you may not want to answer (Score:1)
Just curiousity.
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Re:VA sucks rocks. (Score:1)
chris@valinux.com [mailto] Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
VP, SVLUG
Re:Ouch, reading with threshold=-1 make brain hurt (Score:1)
I don't think that's too far fetched; some of the stuff posted on /. lately has made the Linux community look pretty bad. It would be far worse without moderation.
Anyway, back to VA. They make some nice systems, but they got some serious competition coming from Dell nowdays. Check out that 410 workstation on Dell's Linux [dell.com] page. A dual P2-400 system is not that expensive, and a dual P3-450 should only be about $100 more when they get around to selling one.
TedC
lurk_mode = ON;