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Ask Slashdot: Handheld Linux, Today? 86

Jesse Montrose asks: "I'd like to find out what others are doing about the urge to carry Linux around. I currenly live in Linux on a Thinkpad 560, but it's something of a commitment to bring along with me. Linux on a Psion series5 is exciting, and I'll keep an eye on their progress, a 340MB CFFlash would hold a nice text-only distribution. The various mini-laptops are also interesting, if weak on battery life (ie the Libretto, IBM's PC110, and the sexy new VAIO PCG-C1 which is due in the US around March 15). There are a lot of active projects, but is anyone using a handheld Linux solution right now that they recommend?" nthomas isn't so picky. All he wants is a "handheld...in the $500-$1300 range". What say you all?
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Ask Slashdot: Handheld Linux, Today?

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    I don't see the value in handheld Linux. Linux (UNIX in general) has grown to be a rather bulky swiss-army knife. Specialized OS devices with the ability to share data via RF or IR back to a UNIX box make more sense to me. Faster, smaller, simpler.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I'm currently running Linux on a pair of PC110's for travelling. The PC110 is a little slow nowdays but works well. Battery life is acceptable. I did the 2.0.37pre6 release in Austria on a PC110.

    There is also a work in progress port to the Psion5 and the Geofox.

    The biggest problem is GUI, but I'm hoping glueing together mini-x and Bogl or some similar tools will solve that problem. The other myth is that unix is too bulky for a PDA. V7 ran on a machine that makes the psion5 look like a supercomputer.

    Alan
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I think Linux would be an excellent OS compared to WinCE on PDAs. These device are getting really fast and powerful. One good thing about Windows being so inefficient is that is boosts the hardware development. Look at the new Cassiopeia Palm size PDA from Casio: 131Mhz, 64k colors, 16M RAM, compact-flash, etc. Imagine running Linux on it!
    http://www.casio.com/hpc/e-100.cfm

    There are some people who are thinking about making this happen: GCC Target for mips-based windows(R) CE handhelds
    http://hyperion.clc.cc.il.us/~arty/

    Here are the NEC Hardware specs for the MIPS-based CPUs that are used in the Cassiopeias:
    http://www.necel.com/home.nsf/CreatePage?OpenAge nt&Microprocessors&V(*R*)+Series(TM)+64-Bi t+MIPS(R)+RISC&V(*R*)4100(TM)+Family&VR4111&ALL&AL L&ALL&ALL&&

    Perhaps companies like Algorithmics Ltd. might be interested in helping to port Linux to another MIPS platform?
    http://www.algor.co.uk/algor/info/porters.html

    Here are a few more references for those who are interested in Linux on more than x86.

    Current ports of Linux OS:
    http://www.ctv.es/USERS/xose/linux/linux_ports.h tml

    Compaq's ITSY PDA which is running Linux and other GNU software:
    http://www.research.digital.com/wrl/itsy/

    GNUton:
    http://www.gnuton.com/
  • I have installed Slackware 3.6 on my bosses Libretto 50CT. It works beautifully, though the installation was quite difficult as you can have a floppy or a NIC. This lead to some really interesting loadlin commands, basically I needed to make a fat partition on the hard disk and put vmlinuz and the rootfile there. Then I used loadlin to load the ramdisk (initrd), set the root to /dev/ram0, then booted the kernel with the NIC in.

    Unfortunately the only public NFS server w/ slackware we could find was in China so it took about a week to install. But it works great, and having a portable UNIX is just cool.
    --
    Charles P. Wright
    cpwright@villagenet.com
    http://cpwright.villagenet.com/
  • by Octal ( 310 )
    I still want an Itsy [digital.com].
  • Posted by AnnoyingMouseCoward:

    You are a /.er, therefore you are, by definition, technologically sophisticated.

    Hand-helds are for the "technologically challenged" ( read : the people who find "point and click" too hard ).

    This may seem like a very trite and patronizing attitude, but as someone who has written applications on handhelds, I know the general level of technological expertise of that end of the user base all too well.

    Believe me, it's not a pretty sight.
  • I picked up a used libretto 20ct.
    It's a 486/75 that comes with a 270MB hd.
    I recommend upgrading that immediately.
    I picked up a 4G HD for it on onsale. cost me under $200. it runs a standard rh5.2 distro quite easily. I had to do a bit of mucking around with loadlin to get the install going, but since I had a local NFS server, it was no big deal.
    There are a bunch of links off of the 'adorable libretto' page to get you up and running quickly, so dont worry about 'no support'

    It's got a combo nic/modem card and it was extremely easy to get configured for home/work/hotels/etc.

    I would totally recommend this machine or it's predecessors for a carry-around machine. it doesn't take up any space in my bag even with an extra battery and power supply. I can even pop it in my coat pocket if I feel like travelling light.

    As far as usability goes, I'm extremely impressed. The keyboard is small, but what do you expect for such a tiny machine? once you get the hang of it, it's no big deal. The pointer is a little funky too, but I dont do a lot of mousing anyway.

    all in all, I dig it.
  • yeah, FreeBSD for NEC MobileGear, built by japanese, it has to be cool (tm) ;)

    http://www02.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/ca2/takemura/

    takemura-san's webpage is mostly in japanese, but enjoy the pictures!

    mustapha
  • Yeah, but how are you going to get the ROM out of the WinCE machine for refund day? :)
  • I run Linux full-time on my Portege (one of the ultra-thin ones). I've never been happier with a mobile machine. I also have a wireless LAN, so it makes it easy to walk around and stay connected. A Portege setup like mine can be had today for ~$1800-$1900 (Pentium 266, 96MB RAM, 4GB HD, 10.4 inch 800x600 display).

    -Mark
  • Doesn't it have a built in camera?

    Did you get that to work?

  • Yes and no. There's value in running Linux on a handheld because it simplifies interaction with Linux desktops -- document sharing being the most common example probably. It also moves development into a common space.

    I disagree also about handhelds being just for information access. Handhelds are great for filling out forms, and will do in a pinch for writing email or a letter. Good for games too. The 'Jupiter' WinCE devices would be outstanding for most peoples computing needs -- truly portable, long battery life, instant on (!), more rugged (no HD), etc. -- if only the OS didn't suck. The Sharp TelMail would be a slick little email machine with a few improvements and a non-proprietary way of dialing-up...

    Basicly, I think most people's work could be done easier with specialized devices than with desktop machines. There's value in having a common low-level OS underneath them, and a GNU/GPL one best of all. What's needed is for porting work to continue alongside the development of a handheld-appropriate desktop/window manager. And then some distros. (At this point I'm talking somewhat out my butt, 'cause I don't program.)

    Somewhere I read Linus saying something to this effect -- that handheld space is the next important arena. Anyone remenber where?
  • As far as technical info on WinCE, I can't speak to that too well. Like I said, I'm not a programmer. From what I understand, MS has tried to mimic Windows95 APIs in CE to simplify things for programmers. That makes some sense. Technical unknowns aside, the interface for CE is one of the reasons the machines haven't been selling very well (despite some wonderful engineering on the hardware side). It is still far too complicated and inconsistent for a palmtop, or even a sub notebook.

    On a palmtop, you want to do things with one tap or gesture whenever possible. That's not something a 'start' bar does very well (start--> address book--> name field--> (letter/s)--> find--> done, or more...). You get the idea. Now, there are reports that MS is still working on major revisions of CE, so things should improve there.

    'WinCE sucks' was probably a bit dramatic. I'd say more that it's mediocre, like most MS software. Still, it may be the best choice out there in some respects. Your other choices are presumably palm or epoc (psion), later on maybe Apeiron (Sony). Finally, the best hope is probably for the porting of some scripting languages (perl, python, tcl/tk) to different handheld OSes.

    You might also browse around http://www.pdadash.com/news/ , a pda news site I like.
  • Hey, what's that smell?

    *Sniff sniff*

    *Sniff sniff*

    I smell passwords!
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product

  • Java (when it was Oak) was created for a handheld SPARC. Unfortunately, they couldn't put that much power in a handheld and still hit their price point. It was basically a PalmPilot, but too early.
    -russ
  • by Tet ( 2721 )
    I've been running Linux on a Libretto 50CT, since they were first released in the UK (nearly 2 years ago). I've been extremely happy with it so far. The only real problem has been the size of the hard drive (the 50CT only came with 810MB). However, I've since found a supplier of larger drives (up to 4GB), and the newer models all come with bigger drives anyway. I haven't found battery life to be a problem (I get about 2.5 - 3 hours from the standard battery, and a friend with the larger battery reports nearly 5 hours).

    The 50CT will do 640x480, and some of the newer models (100CT and 110CT) will do 800x480. Both can do 1024x768 (or higher?) on an external monitor.

  • Actually, I was thinking about this recently. I have now acquired a Philips Velo 1 (older WinCE machine, 16MB ram, MIPS 4000, B&W wide screen w/keyboard and pen). I can even attach a PCMCIA card to this, so I can use an ethernet adapter, and this thing has a built in 9600bps modem. Yes, it may be slow or bulky or not the latest hardware, but I can't beat the price I got it for (free). Now if I could only wipe WinCE off this thing, it might be semi-usable.

    I still prefer my PalmPilot, but I would be interested in attempting to develop Linux for it.

  • I recently purchased a Sony VAIO PCG-C1X and installed Linux on it. A more detailed report of my experiences can be found http://www.solluna.org/~bookwyrm/pcg- c1x.html [solluna.org].

    The machine is pretty nice. The keyboard is fairly large, considering, and the feel is acceptable. The 1024x480 provides a fair amount of screen space, if oddly shaped. With a few utilities added, it takes the place of a low-end digital camera, a portable music CD player (MP3s), and makes a nice portable development box.

    The base box is a pretty penny right now (~$2300) though that will probably drop over time. I was looking at a Libretto, but decided to go for broke (sic.) All of the built-in hardware (except for the camera -- still looking at that) appears to be supported just fine under Linux.

    I think I prefer the 1024x480 screen resolution over 800x600. I can fit two Xterms comfortably side by side in 1024x480, which is harder to do in 800x600.

    The technology is certainly interesting to watch. The PCG-C1X strikes me as being almost a concept laptop that snuck out into production. Give it five years, and you could have a laptop with built-in DVD, 5 hours of useful battery life, a better built-in camera, and wireless connectivity. Phone, video-condferencing, music, movies, digital photography, word processing, software development, etc. all in a hand held box. The social/cultural changes from that could be interesting.

  • I haven't looked at the specs on the Qualcom PDQ, but it's a phone with a built in Palm Pilot. Since I work in the Car Navigation industry, I've experimented a lot with GPS on a Palm Pilot. There are many devices that can easily be connected to the Palm Pilot. This phone looks like a step in the right direction for you.
  • The Psion5 is a start, but it's too slow and has too little memory IMHO (otherwise perfect).

    Mini-x and Bogl sounds interesting. Any links?

    I too have been thinking about the Jupiter (Phillips' StrongARM-based WinCE entry), but am worried that sufficiently detailed HW information wont be available and overriding the WinCE might prove impossible.

  • Man... the itsy rocks! I want to strap a notebook type hard drive to the bottom of that, or maybe a ram drive (that would be better) and have the worlds best rio/palm pilot/wearable/translator/AI pet!!!! why won't they give me a job!? ;-) sigh....
  • There are a multitude of reasons why I want Linux on a smaller platform. One of the most basic is my job -- network troubleshooting from a small appliance is worth its weight in gold. Just try to carry a Dell Precision 410 with you all the time and you'll see what I mean. Even placing that system on a cart to help lug it around doesn't make it worth it.

    The other major reason: Playing MP3's in the car -- IMHO much more flexible than most of the specialized solutions out there right now and it costs about the same.

    --

  • Yep, that would indeed be Kim himself. :)

    With the Sony Glasstron [mindflux.com.au], or one of the many choices at Stereo3d [stereo3d.com],

    Anyone have any experience with CPD for mobile wearable use, or 802.11/Blue Tooth for inter office use?
  • Linux already runs on the PalmPilot with extra memory (2MB total I think is needed), but it's still quite bleeding edge.
  • As always, generalisations are dangerous - no doubt many hand held users use them just as appliances, but quite a few load them up with lots of shareware and write their own small apps (as I have done in Pocket C).

    It's a question of whether you need the power of Linux on a handheld or not - if you develop on Linux, go for it, but if you just need address/calendar/notes etc, something like a Pilot or a Psion is cheaper and gets the job done quicker, compared to a more general purpose platform like Linux.

    I've got nothing against Linux but I don't have enough of a desire to carry it in my shirt pocket, though of course it does run on a PalmPilot and I now have a 4MB Palm IIIx, so I could do ... really I need VMware for the Palm platform so I can hypervise PalmOS and Linux, or at least run xcopilot under Linux on the Palm...
  • by rhuber ( 9034 )
    Ok then, we should re-create the wheel for every new car color? Even though the rim still fits?
  • I can't understand Compadigital... Pilot begun with geeks buying lots and lots - Now everyone want's an Itsy running Linux with tilt sensors and etc - the apps will appear smoking. Why they don't sell it?

    Maybe this can go to poll section...
  • Last I heard, the uClinux project had released a stable 2.0.32 kernel which worked on Palm devices- I personally ran it under XCopilot with 1mb ram.

    However, I'm unsure if it supports the new DragonBall EZ processor in the new Palm V and IIIx. If/when I get some additional information, I am planning on flashing it onto my IIIx and starting to develop some PalmOS-like apps for it.

    I want to be able to whip out my Palm, look up phone numbers, etc, and when I hit the memo pad button, I want to see VIM come up in a text console :)
  • I would strongly disagree. As more and more people begin to rely heavily on being "connected" having a handheld is becoming increasingly neccessary.

    I'm not always around my desktop, but I if I had a handheld running a free Unix, I could do 80% of my work on that, mostly coding.

    Why are handhelds running Win9x so much more in demand than WinCE? Because people want to be able to integrate data with their desktop PC, and if you are running the same OS, this is painless.

    Well, my desktop OS is Linux, so I want a Linux handheld for the same reasons. Heck, I don't even need to run XFree86, but it's really comforting to know that some daring Libretto owners have managed to do it. [picante.com]

  • I just tried this out last week. xcopilot, pilot-link and the pilot dev tools are great. Here is a screenshot of my very first app... http://blevins.simplenet.com/bean.jpg [simplenet.com] Or you can download the actual app here: http://blevins.simplenet.com/bean.zip [simplenet.com]
  • Tried that on a PC110 with a 64Kbps MP3 - not a chance, even after dropping the sample rate down to 11KHz, etc. etc. etc.

  • No :) But if someone's willing to throw money at me, I wouldn't mind doing a translation of some of those books...

    (Oart of the reason why FreeBSD is so popular over here is that they've put a lot more effort into allowing applications that can handle two-byte character codes into the standard set of ports and packages. In fact, there's a set of apps for Japanese, another for Chinese, another for Korean, and so on, and all you have to have is a link to the Internet in order to get them built and running.)

  • Actually you missed the point.
    the reason to have linux on a palmtop is to circumvent the hideously overpriced development platforms that winCE and all other palm OS's have. I would love to write apps for my PIIIx and my wince box.. but I dont have time to learn some cryptic os quirks and what bugs to avoid (wince only here) if I can run linux and X on my PalmIIIx then I can write a simple tcl/tk program to do the chemical analysis input plug into a cradle and instantly upload to the server. with regular palm os I have to develop tons of things and then try and get a stupid "conduit" to talk across the network. A free OS on a palm platform would take the death grip that software houses have on these devices and give the geeks of /. a way to have our way with these devices! so for now I use a wearable... maybe an Itsy when they ever exit the "just out of vaproware" phase or a bunch of PalmIIIx units running linux! then I dont have to spend $1000's on a programming house that will muck up the project anyways and never really give us the source code.
  • I dont do hand-held... that is for the technologically impared, I wear linux. My wearable computer is with me 18 hours a day, running linux faithfully and doing all i need. I admit i wish the Head mounted display was better but this is only the 20th century and technology versus affordable (Read: less than $5000.00) isnt there yet so I use X windows at 640x480 with huge fonts (No HMD is available that will actually do 640x480 most are 320x200 that are under $3000.00 and are B&W) a wearable can be built for about $2000.00 or purchased from Xyberaut for about $6000.00 less the display. If you want bleeding edge technology you have to pay through the nose till it hurts, if you want last decades technology you can use windows CE.

    BTW: the PalmIII is the only real hand held computer with the super fast dragon-ball processor... and there is a linux port in the works! (A dirty rumor i heard)
  • I have Linux 2.0.36 running on a IBM Thinkpad 760EL (64mb ram, 2.1gb hd) and use it for developing GTK+ and GNOME applications. Kinda neat, I can develop on my workstation (Dual P2) and then continue to develop on the road with my laptop. I find it very handy, besides the 'Aww man, you have a portable Unix box -- cool.' comments I get. It's fun having a server OS on the road.
  • I think the Jupiter-class Windows CE hardware could be pretty good for running Linux. The machines are generally more powerful than, say, the Pilot, and they have around 10h of battery life. Some CE machines come with MIPS processors. In fact, it's kind of amazing to me how poorly the Windows CE software runs on such powerful hardware.

    A usable portable Linux system should fit into 20M of flash memory, but you can get around 150M now in Compact Flash cards, which should make a pretty good distribution (including a small X windows installation).

    Of course, the Pilot-like CE hardware is pretty good, too. But for any Pilot-like device, Linux kind of lacks the applications.

    Still, since nothing like that exists yet, I just bought an Omnibook 800. You may be able to still find one for around $700. They have 166MHz MMX Pentiums, weight 4 pounds, and are smaller than most notebooks. But the battery life is pretty limited.

    In the long term, I'm actually more interested in handhelds and lightweight portables that run PersonalJava--if I'm going to write GUI apps for a portable, I'd like to do it in a language and environment that makes it easy, and Java is a good compromise between power and simplicity for GUI apps in my experience. And once I write to Java, it doesn't matter much to me whether there is Linux or some other OS underneath it.

  • pager, etc.

    It's a rare day when I'm carrying all at once :) but the point is, I would pay dearly to have a single device that did all those things.

    Seems that a general purpose OS like Linux plus some highly specialized drivers to interface with the GPS, cell phone and pager units would do the trick.

    What other devices/capabilities need unifying in this way?
  • faster, smaller, simpler..?
    Linux on a Libretto 100 is fast, small and very usable.

    When you can use emacs to code in X, or the console to play quake, whether sitting on a train, standing in a queue, or sitting in a cafe, why would you want anything simpler?

    Pick one of these up cheap and don't look back.
  • What about the XFree86 support for the graphic-card in a Libretto? I'm perheaps going to have one of these wonderfull pieces of hardware...
  • Could you specify a bit more on why WinCE 'sucks'? Technical information only, of course. I'm deciding on what kind of ortable platform I'd like to start developing for. i already develop for Linux -- I'm writing a CD database/front-end for my college radio station WCWM. I'm thinking about starting on WinCE with a simple organization program that fits my style of thinking closer than a tree or the brain. I just love the ideas behind the Jupiter HPCs (esp. the Clio!). So if you could maybe point me to some benchmark pages or API disadvantage pages, that'd be great.
  • by jamis ( 16403 )
    I have a Libretto 70CT with Redhat 5.2 ... The install was COMPLETELY painless except for the fact that you'll need a backpack CDrom to do it the way I did :-)

    X even started up on the first try.

    Battery life is the only drawback... ~2 hours on a standard battery (I have two).
  • This is what I would recommend too. Due to various reasons I need to dual boot between NT and Linux. Use both a Toshiba Tecra 8000 and a Libereto, depending on the time of day and what I need to do. System Commander with the two operating systems works fine for me. There are a couple of very good Laptop HOW-TO documents out there a bunch of good linux laptop compatibility sites. Search Yahoo for them and post on there. No offense, but /.'s users tend to be a bit too much on the esoteric side of technology at times :-) Cheers, Shri
  • I'd be tempted to set up something using a standard hard drive and PC/104 board. For viewing what's on it with the PalmPilot I'd recommend using VNC from http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/

    I hasten to add that I've not done this myself, but would like to. What you really need is a wireless connection between the PDA and the server. Then the server & batteries live in a bum-bag, and the PDA can be waved around.

    No need to connect wires to PCs either.

    We can dream. Vik :v)

  • Which place is selling the Velo 1? I'm interested in one of these. (midtoad@globalserve.net)
  • Go http://www.advantech.com [advantech.com]. What you're looking for is under Biscuit PCs. PCM-5862/L or /T. One of them has 10/100 Ethernet built-in. And unless you're a fan of figuring out your own pinouts, the wiring kits are at the bottom.

    Mike
    --

  • It certainly won't play 128k mp3s. The PC110 is based on a 486SX-33, so you will be using Linux's FPU emulation code to play. If it were DX-based, you would be able to play lower bitrate MP3s (64k?), but that would be pushing the CPU pretty hard.
  • try to get a later model. the first model had a 133 mhz pentium, less video ram, smaller hard drive and less ram.

    the later models have the 166 mhz and expand to 80 mb. ram

    my early (133) model can do 640x480x16 and 800x600x8 color; the later model might go 800x600x16.

    i like it a lot, even though i've only had it a week. i still need to compile apm in cuz it doesn't auto shutdown right.
    ---
    john
  • I think the "urge" is silly. The purpose of any computer is what its end usefulness is. Just to have Linux on a machine to say so is worthless unless there is actually a value attached to having Linux.

    Also, most people miss the point completely of what a palm computing device is for. They were not designed to be a primary input device, but rather to be more of an information query device.

    We are writing business applications for the Palm computing device. We allow simple queries on the device that then connect either via the internet or over an 800 number for real time information access for inventory & ordering from our system. The most complex thing you can expect someone to enter is a short note.

    Using Linux on such a device is overkill delux. In fact, the Palm OS is probably overkill.

    "Linux everywhere" is just as silly a goal as "Windows everywhere". Just because a pipe wrench will adjust to fit any size nut doesn't mean it is the proper tool for the job.

    But if you really must carry Linux around 100% of the time, do what I do. Install it on a 3 pound Sony 505FX. (266mhz pentium w/MMX)
  • Can the PC110 play MP3s? I've been kicking around the idea of putting one of them in the car.
  • Linux on the Jornada: great! Has anyone reverse engineered these boxes? I bet they use software driven video & modem interfaces. Why else would WinCE be so slow on a 190 MHz StrongARM?

    We will need WinCE-WINE to run some of the canned apps. And a SAMBA port. This could be a lifetime job for the right person...
  • Here on Ghost Plant we've heard rumours that apple is going to come out with a decent consumer portable later this year. Supposed to have a G3 processor. OS 8.6 even has enablers for it (or is somehow engineered to run on it.) Could one of the PPC liuxs (just what is the plural of linux? Linii?) run on this platform? OF course, its going to have weird everything (display, interactivity, possible radio communications, etc.) Sigh. Sometimes I think apple is too smart for their own good...
  • That would be awsome! The HP Jornada? 2 lbs of 200MHz StrongARM with 10 hours of battery life and an active-matrix screen!

    WinCE sucks on that peice of hardware and I don't think it would be too difficult to port.

    A.
  • I have to agree with Kim (I think that's Kim who wrote this).

    I've done the same thing, and I have to say it is a sweet system. I dunno if I'd use $2300 of my own cash for it (my company paid for it), but I was looking for something simple to do some work on the road, and I just know It would be useless to do anything without a keyboard (no Palms), and I barfed at the thought of the WinCE machines, and the Psions looked like a poorly supported environment.

    So, I caught one of these things at the local CompUSA, and said Wow. Went home to look at the specs more carefully, then went back to pick it up.

    The machine itself is gorgeous, and linux runs very well on it (why not? 266MMX, 64MB/4.3GB, great display, etc). And the ergonomics are a fair comprimise considering it's size.

    Now, just gotta figure out how to get that camera up under linux :)

    -SteveK
  • The $500 Calibri-133 [yulia.com] is a tiny flash disk Linux device. It is intended to be a network tool, but internally it has 2 IDE interfaces. No mounting bays -- maybe you could squeeze a SanDisk in there. Or upgrade the flash disk to 144 MB. http://yulia.com/hardware/index.html
  • You say you'll also be carrying your laptop.

    So use your Linux laptop for your data. Configure it as a server to give access to your various desktop machines.

    At boot time you can choose a boot configuration which identifies your current location. Or else have a script which changes the identity (IP, DNS, printers) and makes the various services reread configuration. There are at least two examples on the Web of this. (I'm using the boot-time config as I haven't taken the time to try the other method yet)

  • mustapha's post seemed intriguing, so I decided to check it out. I can't read Japanese, but takemura's thing seemed really cool. Problem was, every single page I could find was in Japanese. I went to NEC's US web site and searched for Mobile Gear, and nothing came up. After digging around for a while, I found something called the "Mobile Pro." Sure enough, when the picture came up, it was definitely the same thing takemura had (althouh it has a color display -- it must be a newer model). And right next to the picture was a "Powered by Windows CE" logo!

    Apparently it is possible to put BSD on a Windows CE thing. This seems especially wierd since the "regular" version only runs on x86 processors. Would somebody please explain this to me (using words of less than five letters)?

    P.S.: It seems like a lot of the action in the FreeBSD world is happening over in Japan. In fact, when a friend of mine wanted a FreeBSD book, I couldn't find one in English that had been written less than a few years ago. Meanwhile, 20 Japanese books have been released in the past six months, most with cute anime guys on the cover. So the question is, is there a good online course in Japanese?
  • Has anyone tried Linux on an HP journada 820?
  • I love my Psion Series 5. It is the only handheld I've been able to find that combines a great keyboard which I can actually type fast on, with a good battery life and a small enough form factor that I can carry it everywhere. I really have a need to type, thus I still haven't bought a Palm Pilot.

    Now if I could run Linux on my Psion, that would be very cool indeed. Of course, the apps that come with the Psion are quite useful and easy to use too - there would definitely be some tradeoffs to loading Linux and losing the built in apps. The built in OPL language is not really fun to hack with, and the optional C/C++ package was a little overpriced last time I checked.

    Until then, does anyone know of a Linux utility that can sync with, or otherwise backup files from the Series 5?. I would really like to delete my Win98 partition, and the Psion sync program is the only thing that forces me to keep it

  • Thanks!
  • I have been wondering about Linux as an OS choice in the handheld market for a while now. Unlike Jesse Montrose, I'm not in a hurry for my handheld, since a few enabling technologies such as cheap high-density removable memory, 200-300 dpi screens, and better voice recognition are not ready yet. Though in the long run, I think of it as a reasonable choice for a multi-purpose design that does the following:

    GPS - I carry around a Garmin 12XL now, and it really bugs me that I can't customize the interface the way I would like.

    map display - Several GPS units do this now and some palmtops interface with GPS units, though the combination is too bulky for my tastes.

    paging - I'd like to be able to access a LEO satellite two-way paging network (e.g. http://www.orbcomm.com), a ground based network if available and cheaper, and send a page directly to another unit if it is less than a few km away.

    phone - I could dispense with this function if only everyone else had paging ability. A big market though.

    camera/photo quality display - an integrated camera design such as the Sony PCG is one solution, or something that slides into a PC slot with a pivoting lens (like Nikon's or Agfa's) would also work. A very high resolution screen (e.g. HDTV: 1080x1960) at 300dpi would work well for displaying photos to friends and for checking the photo quality at time of capture.

    voice recognition - for document entry, paging, etc.

    Of course none of the above is Linux specific, but if I were to buy a device with another OS (such as EPOC32) for this device, the burden of proof would be on the alternative. It would have to be faster, require less power for a given function, or have some advantage over an OS that is free and for which I already have a small amount of familiarity.

    Links: in addition to the links previously mentioned, /. Readers may want to check out:

    Alternative OS http://www.altos.org.uk for reviews on PalmOS, Epoc32 and others

    Pocket Unix Bookmarks http://cmcind.far.ruu.nl/gillies/bookmarks/pocket. html - I found the PLEB links very interesting.

    Embedded Cygnos OS (eCos) http://www.sourceware.cygnos.com - I'm not sure if this OS is really aimed at Palmtop computing, or if it is for more traditional embedded applications, but there is some interesting stuff here.

    "The GNU Public License [...] means in practice that application developers have to make the sources available. In the embedded systems market this requirement is generally considered unacceptable and many companies refuse to use any GPL'd code as a result. This would reduce the uptake of eCos, and we want as many people as possible to use the system."

    There is also a good overview of Operating Systems at http://www.tunes.org/Review/OSes.html with many links.


  • I agree, doing something for the sake of doing it usually is not a good use of our time.

    I also agree with your quote on what palm is for, a query device.

    The point that I think that we are missing in this discussion is that people (including myself) want more out a "palm device" than just query-ability.

    A device that allows us to do many of the mondane, boring tasks that we all do everyday, where-ever and when-ever we want (assuming wireless life exists). We could do things like responding to the 100's of e-mail we all get everyday, like checking the status of all our systems, like fixing little problems that arise on our systems just to name a few silly ones.

    I sure would like to do these things while watching Futurama, or X-Files, or while waiting for my next micro-brew to arrive while I am at 20-Tanks would'nt you?
  • I know this goes against the grain of most of the posts here concerning a Palm-linux...
    Is there a linux for Apple's discontinued/unsupported Newton hardware?
    I've got a vintage Newton eMate that I'm not doing much with...just curious.

"Why should we subsidize intellectual curiosity?" -Ronald Reagan

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