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Linux Software

Dell: Linux will be Option Very Soon 154

Posted by Hemos from the very-very-cool dept.
At the end of this interview with Michael Dell: Where is [alternative operating system] Linux going? A: I've been surprised. We had a commercial customer order 250 machines with Linux on them to run a retail network of stores. There is growing demand there. We're going to start selling Linux to single-party users very soon. Q: It's going to be on the menu? A: Yes. You'll go to Dell, pull down "operating system," and click "Linux."
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Dell: Linux will be Option Very Soon More

Dell: Linux will be Option Very Soon

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  • As much as I like building my own machines, I'd like to be able to order a machine with Linux preinstalled without paying excessive cost or getting zero support.

    Listen up, Dell. I have the money set aside for my new machine. I'm giving you 45 days to make an announcement or I'll buy a machine from VA Research.
  • BeOS is hardly a "pseudoserver OS", it's never been aimed at server duties. Nor is it based on Unix, though it does have a POSIX compatibility layer.
  • Umm... And what other current OSes do not have the same problem? I know Windows 95 does, and I think NT and Mac do, too. Haven't used Win98, so I don't know if the problem is there, too.
  • Time: The not too distant future (next Sunday A.D.?).

    Place: The Gateway Country Store, over on Calle Real (next to Lucky).

    I walk in, admiring the cow-spotted decor, catching the attention of a salesperson.

    I tell him. "I want a G6-450, 128 megs RAM, 16G hard drive, 19" monitor, 8 Mb graphics accelerator, DVD-ROM, TV card, etc., etc.--oh, and I'd like Linux preloaded on it, please."

    And the salesperson's only response is, "Yes, sir. Which distribution?"

    And I grin.

    Now, wouldn't that be a great scenario? Who knows, it may actually happen.

    Eric
    --

  • It seems you've been brainwashed by the Corporate Minds at Apple. Let's deal with your points:
    • The GPL is the reason Linux and Free Software are so popular - and work so well. It is not a hindrance any more than the kernel is a hindrance in an operating system. (it's the core of everything)
    • Linux is a project. I, and most other people, never want to see it become a product - because products are ruled by money and timelines rather than technical excellence.
    • GUI vs CLI, GNOME vs KDE, Mac vs the world. It's all a matter of opinion.
    • Multimedia is a POS mainly because there aren't any people willing to release specs. I applaud companies like Matrox who release full specs on their cards. Definitely the only way to go is up.
    • I have the funny feeling that MacOS 10 (X?) will turn out to be "just another" pseudoserver OS, kind of like NT and BeOS are. They're all based upon tried-and-true principles (UNIX) but just can't cut it when you compare it with the real thing.
    • Linux low-performance? As compared to what?
    • Hippy-crowd, eh?
    • Hippy licensing?
    You're suffering from a severe lack of clue. We (the Free Software community) can't be defeated, and we know no limits. There's no such thing to us. Sure corporations are coming in and saying "gee isnt this swell" but I, and most others, really don't care all that much. We're in it for the challenge and the ride and the fun, and no matter how much corporate tablebanging and stockholder whining goes on, we don't care. We don't have a tickertape symbol and don't want one. Maybe Linux is approaching the end of its 15 minutes of fame. But once it's no longer the media darling we'll still be here, doing what we love, because we know it's the One True Way.
  • When the OEM's get a taste of a low to no cost OS, there may be no stopping them.

    When the user's get a taste of what Linux is and can be, they may prefer Linux to Windows - especially with it being preloaded and all. :)

    I do agree that this may play into the hands of Microsoft in the DOJ trial though...

  • Hmm.. (Score:1)

    by gavinhall ( 33 )
    Posted by Mephie:

    Heheh, I'm sitting 25 feet away from one of our techs running RH5.2 on a brand new PIII 500.
    --Mephie
  • Posted by Mephie:

    You mean the business they lost when Dell signed a 16 billion dollar tech pact with IBM?
    Hmmm, can anyone say plans within plans?
    --Mephie




    PS. Yes, I work at Dell, no this is not official, this is just me own little conspiracy theory.
  • Posted by Mephie:

    A) I hope so,
    B) If it is, I'm leaving support, I have enough problems without having shaved apes calling me with Linux questions.
    --Mephie
  • Posted by Mephie:

    You should see the new zztop, it allows the end user to make the zz image on the drive. But as to your question, in theory, it could work, we would have to ship a DOS bootable diskette with the system, I honestly cant think of a reason it wouldnt work, we would just have to get more in the image, it would be bigger, but then again, we're shipping 22 gig (IDE) drives.
    --Mephie
  • Posted by Nedwin_H_Longfellow:

    Any moron with half a brain (well, any moron who can install Linux at least) is capable of buying his/her own parts and building a desktop several hundred cheaper than a box builder's system. Not only that but you'll be able to carefully select each component for overall quality including Linux support.

    Now, as anyone who reads slashdot more than occasionally knows, laptops are the real problem. Why would I pay $4000 for a VA laptop where they even admit on the web page that they can't get sound to work? I can spend $2500 on a comparable laptop from Gateway (even with the M$ tax) and get sound working in under an hour (in addition to everything else). Not only that but I can find reviews of these laptops versus the competition (and they do a good deal better than the NEC junk that VA bases theirs on)...

    Linux support is great, but I want to SAVE money not waste it.
  • Posted by AnnoyingMouseCoward:

    I don't know what your smoking dude, but you better stop.

    Apple had their chance back in the 1980's and they blew it. Their whole philosophy is based on propriatory lock-in. Once you buy their stuff, you can't buy anything else.

    As for the needs of the commercial sector, get a clue dude! Do you have any idea of how much time ( and therefore money ) commercial programmers like myself spend re-writting major chunks of code in application software because of changes ( often undocumented ) at the OS level when the new version comes out?

    M$ is notorious for this and Apple isn't much better.

    This was one of the main reasons why the Fortune-500 companies dumped IBM back in the late 1980's. In my opinion, we are going the same way with PC's.

    Your problem dude is that you can't see the importance of keeping the OS and the applications seperate. Tying them together gives you some short term advantages in terms of performance, but the price of this is a dramatic increase in maintinence overheads.

    As for the future, I have very few doubts in that respect. Twenty years from now, Windows and Mac OS will both be gone and forgotten. What's the bet that I'll still be able to get a Linux box when I'm ready to retire?

    As for "..Linux needs to be useful to people now..", you obviously don't know much about computers outside of the office environment, do you?

    Most large companies have their own IT departments who internally produce software for the company so that it meets managements exact requirements.

    This is simply due to the variations in tax laws, payroll, etc, etc, that occurs from one country to another ( and often within different states within the same country ) They don't use anywhere near as much "shrink-wrapped" software as you might think. This is one of the reasons why Apple reached saturation and started to go into decline in the lat 1980's ( before the release of Windows 3.0 ). McIntoshe's closed software model didn't fit the needs of the corporate big-guns.

    Likewise for all of your aguments over multi-media. What corporate-manager with half a brain wants their accounting staff watching DVD movies when they are supposed to be keying in customer orders? For that matter, what manager wants internet conectivity so that they can download pornography when they are supposed to be running the end of month consolidation?

    All of these capabilities are basically *chrome*. With the exception of companies that have a specific need ( such as graphics design work ), the accounting sections of most large companies don't need these capabilities. They don't more technology for the same ammount of money. They want the same technology for less money.

    So like I said dude, whatever your smoking, you'd better stop. Leave the OS to an open *peer* *review* *process* and the *products* to however wants to develop and market them. Putting them together would put us right where we were with IBM back in the 80's and where we are today with M$.
  • It sure would be nice if we had a choice between Red Hat and Red Hat.
  • Actually I'm waiting for Stampede. Their packaging system makes the most sense to me. Debian's setup and maintenence didn't appeal to me either.
  • Hmm...in OS X, the finder is just another application. You can terminate it and use X or KDE or Gnome even. Let Apple do its own thing and Linux develop on its own. Soon the two will be able to run the same apps so it doesnt even make a difference.
    Now we're nothing.
  • Unfortunately Linux is going to have real problems dealing with multimedia unless things change _right now_ about how sound is accessed on Linux. Currently every multimedia app (except things that use esd - which in reality isn't very much) directly accesses the sound card via /dev/dsp - effectively locking out any other app that wants to make a noise. This _has_ to change to a proper driver model where we have real sound drivers and an API for different sound qualities and sound mixing. Christ - my Amiga had those in 1986. And NO esd doesn't cut it - it has to be STANDARD - i.e. part of the kernel. Unfortunately I can't see Linus budging on this issue, which makes me sad.

    Matt.
  • I was just happy I could pull down the OS selection and pick "none".

    Anyone know if the onboard SCSI in the Dell 2300 servers is supported by Linux? Its it a 7880? I wish their site had more info on it.



  • It looks like we /.ed the DELL configuration server....
  • Is this an M$-tax-free linux box? ie, will the menu read:

    [MS Windows 98 -- $195.00]
    [Linux -- $ 0.00]

    ?

    That would turn some heads, eh?


    --
    As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.

  • Yes. (Score:1)

    by Svartalf ( 2997 )
    The internal unit appears to be an Adaptec Ultra-Wide to the system. (We use Linux on one of these boxes as a production WWW server in an Enterprise Class operation that's about to be opened up to the world shortly...)
  • Doubt all you want- THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING. I know it for a fact- the delay at this point is retooling the custom, build to order, software installation system they use to allow them to build Linux installs on boxes.
  • Rumor has it that it's going to be an option on most of the Business systems and possibly some of the intended for home/SOHO machines as well- you and I aren't going to know until they do start shipping the machines. However, I DO know that they are, in fact, going to be shipping machines- very shortly.
  • I can't beleive anyone took this comment seriously. It is obviously satire. Look at all the sarcasm and humor:

    "Linux needs professional programmers" like those of Apple who spent years writing an OS replacement that never got out the door? or those of Microsoft who spent years trying to get NT to be a scaleable OS, and are drowning in their own code?

    "Linux needs mindshare" go to CNET and do a search on Apple. Then do a search on Linux. I got 500 for the former and 237 for the latter. Not bad for a hippy OS. A year from now you will see the ratio reversed. Anyone heavly into Macs as production machines knows Apple is a loser company, with loser products and is rapidly sliding into oblivion. So this was obviously a satiric comment.

    "MACOSX takes over and transforms the Internet server world" ROTFLPIMP! This HAS to be the funniest line I've read all week. This guy is really funny.

    "Apple has the corporate culture"...what an oxymoron. And applying it to Apple yet! (Anyone out there ever try to do business with them...they somehow manage to merge the worst of California laid back culture with Soviet style bureaucracy). Another hilarious line.

    "Linux HAS slowed down"...obviously, with the release of 2.2. and not one, but 2 superior GUIs, and all those great GNOME apps in the pipeline and... And did you get that line about Apple having "the perfect GUI, RIGHT in every respect" - another biting satiric comment. I mean who in their RIGHT minds would ever DREAM of wanting multiple desktops that you can switch between instantly (well, you know on the MAC NOTHING is instant, so this feature wouldn't really be very useful), or choice of window managers (you mean I get to THINK for myself?) or a window pager (you mean using the tiny little icon in the corner isn't the best way to switch between apps?) or editable menus, or configurable panels (multiple) or....

    I mean, this is satire right? You didn't write this seriously, did you? Nobody could be THAT stupid, not even the most religious Mac fanatic. You ARE joking?
  • WOW. Not knowing the VA folks personally I can only vouce for them professionally. I bought a VA box for my company about four months ago or so. They were great! I want to do business with them again.

    As for their business model, well - yeah, so what?

    You think that ~$500 market niche ought to be filled? And you're complaining to someone else about the problem? Either start the business yourself or shut the fuck up!
  • Linux is user-friendly, it's just not beginner/idiot-friendly. (No, I don't mean Linux newbies are idiots)
    /El Niño
  • I just called to confirm. The Dell rep told me that hardware modems are not an option, they only sell Winmodems.
  • I like this slant!
  • As I remember from a news.com article, isn't
    dell giving out LinuxCare support vouchers. And
    having all their support via LinuxCare?
  • Although it is a good thing to see major manufacturer bundling Linux, I just can't swallow their stupid ads (seen in Unix Review/Performance Computing) about how Unix was outdated, how lame it is, come on and follow us on the path of NT paradise ...

    Honestly, if I buy a machine to run any flavor of Unix, I'll go to a manufacturer who understand and support Unices. And it's not being religious, it's being pragmatic : I would'nt risk ending up unsupported because the wind changed and my OS is not anymore the flavor of the day.

    Anyhow, still a good news.
  • All the DOJ needs to prove is that MS illegally leveraged their market position, not that they are the only OS in existence. I think the DOJ has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    --

  • The kick ass AMI PERC RAID controller is supported in 2.2.x kernels as well. Dunno about the newer PERC II controller though.

  • FYI (Score:1)

    by Psarchasm ( 6377 )
    They have been supporting (to a degree) thier corprate customers using Linux (and Solaris x86) for some time now. I'm not a bit supprised that they have no interest in diving into a pool, that at this current time they probably dont have the skills to swim in.

    I've been very impressed with Dell all around and have run Linux on thier 1300s, 2300s, and 6300s. Hell we've got almost 20 of them installed now, with plans for quite a few more.

  • I know there are probably downsides to this, but Dell will be smart if they are first...

    ---
  • YEAH BABY! YEAH!

    Lock the elevators on us will yah?

    Wow, that's something I never thought I'd see. My life is complete.

  • Hmm.. (Score:1)

    by Cosmo ( 7086 )
    Actually, the configurations undergo a rather good testing process. I'm not in a position of authority, but I doubt Dell will ship anything that doesn't pass the same tests, and they'd have to be morons to even attempt the stunt, it's common knowledge that winmodems don't work on Linux, even to Dell.

  • Was not.

    Is not.

    Never will be.
    ---------------------------------
    "The Internet interprets censorship as damage,

  • I spent my money at VAResearch and everything's been just fine, thank you, including a price less than Compaq for the same speed, ram, disk. Substantially less, so I figure it's an NT tax.

    Say Mr Dell, are the Linux boxes going to be cheaper, since there's no Bill tax?

    Too late! Go get stufft.

    --
  • I bought a screamer from them and sevral months later saw a similarly equipped Compaq box, $1500 more expensive. I like them. Don't know what you have against them, but lies like yours don't make your arguments look very real.

    --
  • They sell the same speed/quality hardware and I think they are cheaper.
    Andrew
    --
    ...Linux!

  • VA people never had anything to do with the Linux Standards Association scam. As for their free software credentials, try this:

    % traceroute www.gnu.org
    ...
    5 ds3-h2-0.paix.he.net (204.188.70.2) 7.777 ms 6.134 ms 5.425 ms
    6 gw.pa.via.net (209.81.1.2) 6.106 ms 81.857 ms 71.213 ms
    7 S1-0-DS3.mtv.via.net (209.81.23.18) 116.607 ms 9.525 ms 9.336 ms
    8 va.via.net (140.174.204.44) 11.548 ms 9.226 ms 10.798 ms
    9 fsf.varesearch.com (209.81.8.252) 10.413 ms 22.981 ms 19.089 ms

    That's right, VA Research provides Internet connectivity for the FSF. HJ Lu, who did so much work on gcc, libc5, and binutils for Linux, works for them.

    You should retract your slander immediately. "Anonymous Coward", indeed.

    It's true that VA Research is selling high-end boxes, not cheapo low-end boxes. That's because unless you can manufacture and assemble in a third world country, or are a huge company like Dell or Compaq, you can't make money at the low end, and VA Research needs to make money.

  • Hey Dude,,,chill out yourself. Maybe I'm pissed because my Inspiron 7000 notebook was advertised as having a built in 56k modem, not a built in 56k winmodem. So, imagine my surprise when I found I couldn't use it under Linux. I was pretty upset but by that time it was too late. I saw later changes to their documentation to reflect that it was a winmodem, but when the notebooks first came out this was not known.
  • So was the spelling "would'nt" intentional???
    I will give you credit and assume it was :).

    I would buy from VA Research, but I built my system myself. Anyway, I agree with you that this is a good thing for Tux.
  • Why do people keep complaining about VaResearch's prices when several linux shops offer low prices ? if you want to pay the premium associated with VA's fame/mindshare, go for it. Otherwise, be aware that you have a choice.

    Try any of these :

    http://www.aslab.com ( mid to hi end . Much cheaper than Va
    ) http://www.tcu-inc.com (a little cheaper. make AMD boxes. )
    http://www.sunsetsystems.com (low cost)

  • Let's hope that the generic PC shops that "build" cheap computers for home users and the super-cheap PC vendors offer Linux as a option within the next year.
    CHeap linux PCs are already available ( eg
    http://www.sunsetsystems.com ,
    http://www.tcu-inc.com )
    Even linux-hw http://linux-hw.com also offer a sub-$1000 model Of course, if businesses like these fall flat, it will not give the other PC vendors much incentive to support linux.

    I find it odd that people like you will eagerly buy from the mainsream vendors who are so reluctant to support linux, but refuse to support the people who have been supporting it from day 1.

  • I have no intention of choosing Dell's designed-for-windows machines that just happen to run linux. Why choose a Dell over a product from a linux friendly hardware vendor ?

    Some features of your favourite Dell system:

    • No-name el-cheapo motherboard. They don't even tell you what board is in the system ... The linux shops, by contrast, use quality name brand boards
    • Proprietry RAM. No advantages of this for the customer , (you're a captive market to the select few who make those chips ) Try upgrading your memory in two years. Ive returned three DIMMS already
    • Video cards that simply do not work well with linux. One of the telltale signs that these are designed for win95. ATI, anyone >

    -- Donovan
  • So ... how well is the 3D on it supported ... ?
  • My Dell is a couple of years old(pentium classic). It uses proprietry memory which has meant that
    it is almost impossible to get more ( and it is expensive )
    To their credit, they made the case reasonably "deconstrubtible", only filled one DIMM slot,
    and gave me a crappy onboard video card that was nice enough to disable itself
    when I put my millenium II in.


    But I am not impressed with the silly behaviour of my board which is insisting on special "dell"
    ram


    About the ma-and-pop-shops ... well the online linux sellers
    like Va, aslab, etc make it clear what kind of components they are using.
    Dell provide no such info ...

  • Looks pretty good. LDP keep a list of linux friendly hardware shops. ( http://metalab.unc.edu/LDP/products.html#systems ) It's worth ( IMO ) emailing the maintainer of the page ( as I just have ) with links to these places, as many linux users use this list to hunt for linux hardware on the net.

    -- Donovan
  • It wants a 4x64 SDRAM DIMM. ( my receipt says so. I guess this means no parity, and no ecc ? )

    I tried one and it didn't work. ( Maybe it was faulty ? )

    Strangely enough, the ads I see for "memory for Dell dimension" advertise it for an arm and a leg ( $99 on pricewatch ). Are you sure this is standard memory (it's a P133v) ... ?
  • to break ranks.

    I figured it'd be Emachines, given their favorable refund policy.

    I'd have thought Dell would be one of the last!

    That crack in the dam just keeps gettin' bigger!

  • According to this page [dell.com], you'll be able to get linux preinstalled starting on March 17, saving "you up to 2 hours of loading time." Maybe it takes that long on an Alpha with old firmware...

  • Although I'm not very familiar with Dell's product line, I'm sure they sell a bunch of laptop models.

    Now, if Dell were to also officially bundle Linux on a bunch of laptops, THAT would make people take notice.

  • I don't have anything special against Intel or any special desire to ruin Microsoft, but if you read the article, it's pretty clear Michael Dell is completely subservient to both these companies.

    Basically, he doesn't want to offer AMD chips because it might not be good for consumers (uh...) and Intel chips are just as cheap (mmm-hmm)

    Then, he doesn't want to say anything against Microsoft because he lives and dies by the "Windows rebate".

    "Freedom to innovate?!" If bolting IE to an unstable OS is "innovative" we're in for some dark days.
  • I was pissed when i noticed that my new (work) gateway came with a winmodem. It is owned by work so i guess i just have to deal with it......

    --
    Joshua Curtis
    Lancaster Co. Linux Users Group
  • Well, your threats to spend your $2000 somewhere else are sure to get Dell moving faster.

    Such hubris.

  • Maybe ... (Score:1)

    by ja ( 14684 )
    I am calculating that Linux will surpass NT in the year to come for anonymous servers that are not workstations (Now, that one was easy to guess since MOST sysadmins want's a free holliday once in a while ...)
  • Before anyone decides to head off and worship at the alter of Dell, may I ask them to read about the trouble I've been having with them for the past few weeks ala Windows Refund.

    http://www.lonix.org.uk/Articles.html
  • This is good news for Bill. It helps MS to prove
    that there is competion and that DOJ's monopoly
    accusations are wrong. Damn.
  • WITH KDE
    AND GNOME
    AND OTHER GAY SHIT
    HAHAHAHHAHHHAH
    OWNED.
    REDHAT
    HOW FUCKING GAY.
    ILL JUST KEEP BUYING PARTS AND PUTTING TOGETHER QUALITY MACHINES RUNNING A REAL DISTRIBUTION.
  • go to http://support.dell.com [dell.com]. they have full specs on all their machines.
  • every where u look u c rh, every linux var sells rh. Don't get me wrong I use and like rh, but enough is enough.

    And i would not buy a pc from dell, there are only a step (and a small one) up from the cockroach that is NEC/Packard Bell.

  • People don't freak out this is no big deal. I'm sure when they get enough complaints their get a contract for real FaxModems. If we can break down the M$ OEM Monopoly like we're doing, this will be no sweat. The barriers and exclusive contracts we have to get around are nothing compared to what we've just overcome. I also remember them saying they'd NEVER put Linux on a computer, then they'd never put Linux on a desktop. Do you really think their going make this big of a fuss about WinModems>

  • C'mon, buddy, MacOS is pretty much diametrically opposed to Linux. Have everyone's desk look and feel the same? Remember the old "if OS's were Airlines" joke? (Look at http://www.frogtown.com/lists/funny/0077.html [frogtown.com]- found this on short notice, sorry) No (or little) customizations? No window manager of your choice? Suuure.

    What you're really saying is replace Bill over at M$ with Mr. Jobs. The result will be the same in the end - an arrogant, bloated company with an egomaniacal leader bent on owning the world. You should really stick to your own - go flame Mr Dvorak some more on the PC Mag site.

  • If you think that Dell is only a step up from Packard-Bell, you have obviously not had to work with them very often.. While it is true that they use lot's of very standard stuff (i.e. Intel board, Adaptec chips, STB video, etc), this is very useful if you buy them for corp.

    I have MANY Dell PCs (and Servers, the 4300 is SWEET) in operation within our enterprise. I won't switch.
  • I found the following quote from the article very interesting: "Microsoft's Windows 2000 is going to come out, and it's not going to run on those $500 computers. And these machines are not going to be used."

    Sounds like an opportunity for Linux on the desktop if I ever heard one.
  • They aren't going to just put this option anywhere and everywhere. They are most likely going to put it on their workstation & server class PC's (e.g. OptiPlex and Poweredge).

    Just a nit here: I think you can add "Precision series", and possibly delete OptiPlex.

    Due to annoying purchasing requirements, I "had" to buy a Dell Precision 410 for my first Linux box here. Theoretically, there's still an NT partition on the thing, but in practical reality, it was one of the nicest Linux boxes around in its price/performance range.

    King Babar

  • Just out of curiosity, why is there "technically" still an NT partition on there? And what exactly does that mean? :)

    Well, "technically" just means that the original factory-installed FAT16 partition with NT on it still exists. So if there were ever any reason to reboot my Linux box, I could "theoretically" boot NT.

    And, since only NT is "officially" supported here, that partition will stay there in case I have a hardware problem, and need to show somebody that NT is unhappy about it, too.

    King Babar

  • It's kind of sad that Dell won't use AMD. After all, they are, for the most part, neighbors down here in Austin. As for offering it as a consumer option, Linux is just too geared towards programmers and hobbyists. When the average american gets home at night, they don't want to think about what they are doing, they want to punch a button and be on the internet.

    This does not, however, mean I support microsquash. Because I have to use Win95 at work, and it is a pain in the ass. I think Macs would be perfect for people who want an easy to use proto-information-appliance.

    Zagmar

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