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Ask Slashdot: Can Linux do Video Conferencing? 70

Posted by Cliff from the reach-out-and-see-someone dept.
Happy New Year! Ed Schlunder wrote in with 1999's first Ask Slashdot. He asks: "Our school district is playing with the idea of video conferencing and I'm wondering if this can be done on Linux. My home computer has a bttv card and a full duplex sound card. This should be the necessary hardware for doing video conferencing. On the software side, Linux supports IP Multicast and IGMP, so the kernel seems to be up to the task. But what about the actual video compression and distribution system? So far, everything I've looked at seems about 1-2 years old and no longer maintained (vic, nv, etc). Is there a cross platform video conferencing application out there for Linux that is actively maintained?" The school is currently looking into Microsoft NetMeeting, but Ed worries (and rightly so) that Microsoft might be positioning itself to dominate in this market, allowing them to determine the standards later on. What do you all say?
Remember, that more of Ask Slashdot can be found here ! 1998 was a good first year, and I'm hoping that we can help more folks with their nagging questions in 1999!
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Ask Slashdot: Can Linux do Video Conferencing? More

Ask Slashdot: Can Linux do Video Conferencing?

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  • Netscape is virtually out of the picture

    I don't see that from where I've been sitting. AOL has been talking and stressing that they will continue to support the OS movement in the browser issue, Mozilla has also been stressing that AOL is going to let them be, so to speak, and the browser is still being actively modified by developers.

    They have also started a brand new engine which is completely new/rewritten which is faster then the existing engine in Netscapes browers. They are also completely rewritting the browser to be totally complient with the current HTML standards instead of the standards just being added to it causing bloat like some other browser company does. I would keep an eye out for the next major release of Netscape 5.x or what have you, you should see some vast improvements.

    I see 1999 being a very good year in the release and progressions of OS software.
  • Stefan was caught uttering the following:
    Ed tried to ask a serious question. Why did you have to add that little note to the article where you say:

    >The school is currently looking into Microsoft
    >NetMeeting, but Ed worries (and rightly so) that
    >Microsoft might be positioning itself to
    >dominate in this market, allowing them to
    >determine the standards later on.

    This addition is absolutely not needed in the context of his question. It is food for a anti MS flamewar instead of a serious answer to this important question that Ed asks.
    You read too much into what I said, and that addition was actually part of the original question , I just reworded it a bit to fit the style of the article.

    I also have to disagree with your assertion that it was unnecessary, when it most definitely was. My intention for mentioning it was this: I wanted to see if people could come up with alternatives!

    You see, without alternatives to NetMeeting, then the fears allayed by that comment are extremely justified because it means that Microsoft can and will "embrace and extend" simply because they can. Judging from the comments expressed here so far, there are not many alternatives that have the popular mindshare that would make them a contender for said market (I haven't seen a single solution mentioned more than twice).

    Most of the ones that have been mentioned are outdated.

    Stop the childish Microsoft bashing please. Comments like this make slashdot sound like it's being run by teenage Linux doodz (or is it?) who are all on a holy war against Microsoft.

    I think everybody with posting rights should stop putting ANY remarks about Microsoft in articles where it's not needed. Let's keep a professional level in the content of Slashdot.
    I agree with everything you said above, however you need to stop seeing every mention of Microsoft as a call to Microsoft bash.

    In case I haven't made this clear enough here: I do not tolerate Microsoft bashing, or bashing of any sort on Ask Slashdot articles. If I see posts that exist for the sole purpose of bashing, then they get moderated. Period.

    So please, read the article more carefully, and remember what I've said here. Being "professional" also means dealing with the difficult questions, and I felt this question qualified: Until I posted this question, the only Video Conferencing software I knew of was NetMeeting.

    I hope this clears things up.
  • Please, not only can Linux teleconference, it can multicast them out.

    There is, 'vic' [lbl.gov] which probably the most popular for multicasts.

    I'm sure you can find others (which don't require multicasting) if you look hard enough :)
  • I agree. The poster was asking how to do videoconferencing under Linux, and that little comment changed it into a question asking how to do videoconferencing without using Microsoft.
    "How do I do videoconferencing in Linux" is a completely valid question - asking how to do something. "How do I do videoconferencing without using Microsoft" is just Microsoft-bashing - asking how to NOT do something. It's the difference between being constructive and being destructive.

    ...and people wonder why the Linux community is perceived as being an "anti-microsoft" community, rather than a more constructive pro-UNIX community.
  • I have compiled vic under debian with the bttv drivers, The results and hints are on my web site, Alan's Linux Info Ctr [super.net], The link previously will get a version for windows - that is a precompiled binary. The Linux one needs to be compiled. (This needs an older version of tcl/tk, so there is a modified one on the debian site (instructions on my page).
    I have had mixed success with it so far, On a ethernet internal network it works great, however over the internet, It totally failed. Still looking for ideas, - looks like investigating a reflector might be a good idea.
  • According to WinNT Magazine (http://www.winntmag.com/magazine/article.cfm?Arti cleID=3617):

    "NT 5.0 includes an updated version of NetMeeting, a conference tool similar to ICQ and Powwow that lets you communicate with other users over the Internet. NetMeeting includes features from voice and video conferencing to whiteboard diagramming. These features may sound fairly standard, but NetMeeting lets users handle collaborative work across platforms. You've probably worked with shared applications between Windows machines. Working with someone else's copy of Word or Excel via a remote control program from your NT machine isn't terribly impressive. But what if you could work with a program running on a Linux or Solaris computer? Because NetMeeting is also available for UNIX platforms, users on non-Windows platforms can remotely control Windows applications as if they were running those applications natively. That's impressive thin-client technology."

    So maybe..

    Addtionally the Dec 1998 issue's "NT News Analysis" by Craig Barth:

    "However developing for Linux takes on a whole new meaning as independent software vendors (ISVs) contemplate releasing to the masses what is essentially their core asset - the intellectual property that the original source code they've written represents. According to intellectual property lawyers, the Linux licensing agreement binds any developers who produce software using components of the Linux OS (e.g. libraries, runtimes) to release source code for their additions (i.e. applications) in the public domain. This limitation, more than any other issue, will stop mainstream commercial Linux development dead in its tracks. Evaluating strategies involving Linux-based solutions, IS planners need to consider that commitments made today may vanish tomorrow. As a result, customers who invest in Linus may end up without crucial applications."

    This is FUD at its best. Mix some half truths and then lie about what they really mean. Maybe someone with thourough knowledge of GPL and Linux can reply to their Readers section and point out what they got wrong.

    They compare NT/VMS/UNIX in this issue too. Linux is discussed too, but I think he is talking about 2.0.x based on his complaints about SMP support.

    I think Dec 1998 will be accessible on the WWW in March.

    /mill


    /mill
  • The most recent versions of VIC and RAT, along with whiteboard software and multicast gateways, can be found at:

    http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/shr imp/d2f/index.html [ucl.ac.uk]

    http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/mult imedia/software/ [ucl.ac.uk]

    A PIM-2 multicast router can be found somewhere off of:

    http://netweb.usc.edu/multicast/

  • Personally I would take the first option. The only value money has for me is that it provides food, shelter, a decently upgraded computer, and most importantly, a way to gain knowledge. Spending money gets boring after a few weeks. Learning never does... and neither does the warm fuzzy feeling.

    I pity the ones who check the greedy bastard box.

    ElpDragon.

  • If Corel could even _SELL_ Netwinders it would be a start.
    Our company has contacted Corel several times to buy Netwinders for resale.
    So far no luck, just lots of "Real Soon Now" promises..
  • There is an open source ORB, TAO, available from
    http://siesta.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html
    The significiant feature of this ORB is its real-time characteristics and its Audio-Visual service. This feature has been developed in conjunction with the Washington University School Of Medicine.

    There are a number of example applications, generally built around some real problem. I don't know if there is one already for your particular problem, but certainly the tools are all there if you want to take a crack at a solution.
  • No my friend, the article comment itself seemed pretty relevant, and the fact that MS is positioning itself to dominate, and RAPE another market is something I am interested in. This however, is not new News.

    Your comment however is enough to get me to write in. I was a teenage Linux dood and my passion for the OS carried out of my teenage years. Using linux cuts out apps that I might have access to in windows but if you ask me it's WORTH it.

    I used linux when windoze could have been an easy way out. I did this because I believe in what it stands for. I believe that open source software will be superior and more stable. Maybe Linux is the closest thing to religion in my life!

    Honestly, I think you have as much right to decide the content of slashdot and your comment expressed your opinion. If everyone flames an article, you can bet it won't be posted again. If you're in the minority, you're going to have to live it or leave. You can always skip the article.

    Finally, I don't bash MS on principle, but I bash some of their techniques. I have watched them jump ahead in a market only to slap us with proprietary protocals which lock everyone out and Linux users a lot of pain. I have no need for video conferencing but fact that when I DO have a need, MS might be my only choice is very relevant and scary to me.
  • This goes out to anyone who has used or hasn't heard of gPhoto.

    gPhoto is a free, GPL'ed Linux/Un*x based application that allows users to download,
    view, manipulate, and save pictures from a large selection of supported digital cameras. It is now at version 0.1.2-DR, and has been known to compile run on GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, and NetBSD. BUT, it should run on any system that has the required libraries installed.

    More information can be found at http://gphoto.fix.no/ [gphoto.fix.no]

    As for the update, the devel version that is currently being worked on has
    come quite a long way even from the most recent release (which was posted
    2 weeks ago). Currently, the following library projects are being worked
    on:

    * Kodak DC-2x, DC-50 support
    * Kodak DC-2xx support
    * Ricoh support
    * Fuji support

    This will practically double the number of cameras supported by gPhoto.

    On top of that, there is now an added HTML Gallery generator. This
    "Plug-in" allows users to turn the thumbnail index into a full-fledged
    web-gallery from themed templates that will come with gPhoto. Users can
    make their own themes from scratch, easily, or use one of the themes
    provided.

    The Live Camera! plug-in will eventually support time-capture sequences,
    and save to animated gifs, or movies; live video.
  • The company I work for (Sorenson Vision Inc.) is releasing a kick-ass video conferencing system for the MS-Windows platform in April. You can read about it at .

    It may be the nicest video conferencing system available when it comes out. Unfortunately, the company has no current plans for ports to any other platform because they don't see the economic feasibility of doing so.

    If you've used the Sorenson plugin for QuickTime you know the technology is superior to most video compression codecs available so it would be very cool if they would support the Linux movement in some fashion.

  • The company I work for (Sorenson Vision Inc.) is releasing a kick-ass video conferencing system for the MS-Windows platform in April. You can read about it at this site [s-vision.com].

    It may be the nicest video conferencing system available when it comes out. Unfortunately, the company has no current plans for ports to any other platform because they don't see the economic feasibility of doing so.

    If you've used the Sorenson plugin for QuickTime you know the technology is superior to most video compression codecs available so it would be very cool if they would support the Linux movement in some fashion.

  • But what hardware do you need to do video confrencing? A lot of people have frame grabbers like the WinTV card, but which cards allow you to output video?
  • Marratech [marratech.com] offers a great multimedia solution well suited for educational need. It contains players as well as servers for Video (read lectures) on demand. It works well with Windows and Unixes.
  • A disgusting problem with the computer industry is sloppy computer scientists. In other fields of science I notice a strive for efficiency and high standards. A major software power like Microsoft should try to attain the highest standards of quality, but they fail to. Windows is bloated, buggy, and (excluding Windows NT) is still a shell for 16 bit dos. Although Windows NT is more stable ,it has more security holes than swiss cheese. Should we run our nation's infrastructure on that?

    The funny thing is most people believe Microsoft is the best form of software around. Even some computer scientists I know. If I design a bridge that collapses, but is user friendly I would loose my engineering license. On the other hand, Microsoft, who does similar things, makes billions of dollars. Does this say anything about the computer industry?

    I'm sorry to say that our industry is substandard when you compare it with other sciences. We have to wake up or Microsoft will dominate the OS marke... oh damn too late. :(
  • you say that bashing ms is wrong, yet you bash on every teen that sees the article. lose the stereotype. if we're to the point of using Linux, we don't fit that one.
  • An open source H323 project recently got started:

    http://www.OpenH323.org/ [openh323.org]

    Not much there yet, but it looks promising.
  • A project to integrate embedded video conferencing from audio analyzed "programming" ?

    I'm writing communication software tools. My company require me to use OpenBSD. The platform is for development pertaining extensions of base code. Some other can prefer Irix when debugging code, going over source server. They also make build on Linux, debugging afterwards. Why these people end up testing toolchain in no time..!

    Happy New Year!!
  • Actually it looks like at least 1996

    "vic.html,v 1.4 96/07/22 13:39:33"

    Not that it matters a lot.
  • It seems like you haven't been on Slashdot
    enough. First, the footer fits in perfectly
    in the context of this question, second there
    are things Microsoft is good at (yes, I admit it)
    but... this domination of different markets
    has gone on long enough. It's like Microsoft
    has brainwashed their employees to code in
    a proprietary, single-platform, manner. Who
    needs them? Third of all, i don't know how old
    the people who run Slashdot are, but I can tell
    you, they aren't businessmen, they didn't start
    this site so that professionals were the only
    ones able to post their ideas. this site is
    for EVERYONE, and its scope is anything and
    everything technological.

    Basically, don't be a smart ass

  • You should use the mbone tools like sdr, vic, vat, rat.

    You can get them all in the IP Multicast tools SHRIMP [ucl.ac.uk] distribution.

    I have been using them for about a year, and its way better than NetMeeting, because its multicast. Your network will be happier with multicast traffic, because it is greatly more efficient than point-to-point and you can do a videoconference between a lot of people at the same time, not just two people. With non-multicast tools, if you want to do videoconference with multiple people, you have to get a special server, "reflector", with lot of power.

  • Actually not: although the Marratech apps are written in Java, they (currently) only run in Windows. Java and the current version JMF does not support video or audio capture, so native C-code is necessary for this and JMF is only implemented for Windows, Mac and Solaris AFAIK. (The 100% Java version of JMF does not support enough codecs to used.)


  • Hi guys! We are using linux for our systems that is used for video controllable camera (Hi quality). The systems is able to delivery continuous images or still images. When still images is used, many as 30 simm users can operate the camera controls. You can have a road test live at Musique Plus TV station:

    http://www.syscam.com/

    Bye. Dsa.
  • I am currently working on a high quality video confrencing kit for Linux using the Video4Linux API

    Keep an eye on my website
  • Say hi to Billy for me when you stop by to get your paycheck. Anyhow, back to the actual subject, and not people being hypocritical about not being on subject (hah!), I too would like to know more about Linux videoconferencing. I specifically bought a WinTV card awhile back because I heard that ATI wasn't being very helpful when it came to releasing their card's specifications. I see a couple of good web links here to check out, but can anyone tell me which programs they personally have gotten to work on a WinTV card? Thanks!

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