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Open Source Software Linux

Paragon Is Working To Get Its nfs3 Filesystem Into the Linux Kernel (arstechnica.com) 73

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect-eventually dept.
Jim Salter writes via Ars Technica: In March of last year, proprietary filesystem vendor Paragon Software unleashed a stream of anti-open source FUD about a Samsung-derived exFAT implementation headed into the Linux kernel. Several months later, Paragon seemed to have seen the error of its ways and began the arduous process of getting its own implementation of Microsoft's NTFS (the default filesystem for all Windows machines) into the kernel as well. Although Paragon is still clearly struggling to get its processes and practices aligned to open source-friendly ones, Linux kernel BDFL Linus Torvalds seems to have taken a personal interest in the process. After nearly a year of effort by Paragon, Torvalds continues to gently nudge both it and skeptical Linux devs in order to keep the project moving forward.

To those familiar with daily Linux use, the utility of Paragon's version of NTFS might not be immediately obvious. The Linux kernel already has one implementation of NTFS, and most distributions make it incredibly easy to install and use another FUSE-based implementation (ntfs-3g) beyond that. Both existing implementations have problems, however. The in-kernel implementation of NTFS is extremely old, poorly maintained, and should only be used read-only. As a result, most people who actually need to mount NTFS filesystems on Linux use the ntfs-3g driver instead. Ntfs-3g is in reasonably good shape -- it's much newer than the in-kernel ntfs implementation, and as Linux filesystem guru Ted Ts'o points out, it actually passes more automated filesystem tests than Paragon's own ntfs3 does.

Unfortunately, due to operating in userspace rather than in-kernel, ntfs-3g's performance is abysmal. In Ts'o's testing, Paragon's ntfs3 completed automated testing in 8,106 seconds -- but the FUSE-based ntfs-3g required a whopping 34,783 seconds. Bugs and performance aside, ongoing maintenance is a key aspect to Paragon's ntfs3 making it in-kernel. Torvalds opined that "Paragon should just make a pull request for [ntfs3]" -- but he did so after noting that the code should get OKs from current maintainers and that Paragon itself should maintain the code going forward. (Paragon developer Konstantin Komarov quickly replied that the company intended to continue maintaining the code, once accepted.) [...] For his own part, Torvalds seems determined to find a performant, modern, maintainable replacement for the ancient (2001-era) and seldom-used ntfs implementation in the kernel now. As long as Paragon remains willing to keep playing, it seems likely to get there eventually -- perhaps even in time for the 5.15 kernel.
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Paragon Is Working To Get Its nfs3 Filesystem Into the Linux Kernel More

Paragon Is Working To Get Its nfs3 Filesystem Into the Linux Kernel

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  • ntfs not nfs3 (Score:5, Informative)

    by riley ( 36484 ) on Friday August 06, 2021 @09:15PM (#61665879)

    Incorrect title. This is about Paragon's ntfs driver, not nfs3.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by anewsome ( 58 )

      Incorrect title. This is about Paragon's ntfs driver, not nfs3.

      that's exactly what I was about to post ;-)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Pimpy ( 143938 )

      Both are incorrect, Paragon refers to their ntfs fillesystem as ntfs3.

    • Are you saying you actually expected the Slashdot editors to edit correctly? Sacrilege!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nyet ( 19118 )

      For some reason slashdot editors are incapable of editing their posts for typos

      • Or checking them before posting.

        They must be so proud of their work.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by nyet ( 19118 )

          Hey, look at that, BeauHD still hasn't edited the title. It makes you wonder what they do all day. It clearly isn't editing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kriston ( 7886 )

      Thank you for this. Now I'm not as interested because I don't see ntfs-3g performance to be as bad as alleged in the article.

      • That's because the "test" the article refers to is it running a synthetic stress-test suite, not a real workload. Does anyone have realistic benchmarks for it?

  • ReiserFS (Score:4, Funny)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 ) on Friday August 06, 2021 @09:21PM (#61665887)

    Does anyone remember ReiserFS? That was a killer file system, just don't get it mad.

    • Remember WinFS? Just never got made.

    • Indeed I do! It basically died with the murder charges but some features have inspired and have been implemented in other FS. The name Reiser became heavily blacklisted although and rather quickly IIRC.

      Cheers!

      • Last patches are apparently still maintained by DARPA in 2021!
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        If you look at the feature set, zfs meets several IMHO. Then if zfs isn't really needed feature set wise, I would probably use btrfs, then ext4 I guess, maybe even ext2 depending on the use case.

        Anyway, ReiserFS was really refreshing back then.

        • If needing features in that type of filesystem, I am leaning towards btrfs. ZFS is excellent, but I've had issues where I/O threads will hard-lock under Linux and require a reboot to un-hang, and have had issues like this on multiple platforms. Hopefully that gets stomped out, because it is the best filesystem to ensure that bit rot is found and repaired.

          If one uses btrfs similar to how Synology implements it, where md-raid is doing the heavy lifting among multiple drives, and then btrfs on top of it, it

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kriston ( 7886 )

        Here's a screen shot of the Wikipedia entry from back then.

        Reiser file system [baltimoremick.com]

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by iggymanz ( 596061 )

      ol' Hans had parole denied in 2020 but will be up for hearing again in March 2023. Just imagine, we have legal system where guy can strangle his wife and hide the body, yet possibly be free in 15 years. Amazing bleeding heart system we have...

      • Re:ReiserFS (Score:4, Insightful)

        by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:47PM (#61666053)
        We should have a harsher legal system where police can choke a guy to death for minor crimes, or shoot them while they're sleeping in a car, running away, or obeying police instructions to put their hands up.

        • Qualified immunity is a hell of a drug.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by RightSaidFred99 ( 874576 )

          No, we should have a harsher legal system where when you are convicted of brutally murdering someone by a jury of your peers you should never be let out. Instead there are cases seemingly every day where some asshole with 4-5 violent convictions finally kills someone (or kills someone _fucking again_).

          We are too hard on nonviolent crime/drug offenses and way too lenient with the subhuman monsters who prey on actual people.

          • Instead there are cases seemingly every day

            We shouldn't rely on feelings and impressions.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            The goal should be to reform prisoners, not punish them forever or try to make them some kind of deterrent example. Punishment does very little to help anyone, and often just makes it harder for people to go straight. Deterrent simply doesn't work.

            What does it say about us if we can't take the worst in our society and fix them? We seem to have given up, the problem is too hard, so lock them up forever.

            • RighSaidFred99's problem isn't even that nuanced. According to his complaint, he wants there to be no possibility of parole at all. He's angry at the fact that, even though he was denied parole this time round, he will be given another parole hearing again.

              Because he's angry at what Reiser did, he wants there to be no possibility of parole for other people in other circumstances.
              • No, I'm angry that we have repeat offenders, even repeat violent offenders, out roaming the streets committing more violent offenses. It's really not such a difficult concept to grasp.

        • last I checked the choker was convicted.

          As for that career criminal with gun in his lap in car, of course the cop shot him when he went for the gun, righteous shooting. Or are you siding with the "expert" the family brought in that claimed the criminal actually was going scratch his crotch? Who knew there were crotch scratching experts. So why the hell are siding with illegally armed criminal going for his gun when cop approaches?

          • https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]

            The police are the ones who hired the "expert" to conclude, as he has done many times, that police are right to carry out extra-judicial executions at the slightest moment of panic by the officers.

            The man was sleeping. People move when they sleep. You have no evidence he was reaching for his gun, other than the police who murdered him saying say so. The video evidence is not conclusive at all.

            As for that career criminal with gun in his lap in car

            That's how you think the legal system should work, hey? If a person was a cri

            • You're confused, you link story that says expert Blake, hired by city, says shooting justified.

              "âoethe 55 rounds fired by 6 officers in approx. 3.5 seconds is reasonable based upon my training and experience as a range instructor as well as through applied human factors psychologyâ."

              So to summarize, McCoy, kidnapper and human trafficker, who had a bunch of stolen firearms seized from his house prior, and who was carrying a stolen firearm, went for that stolen gun and was shot dead.

              One less piece o

      • It's unlikely he'll be ever let out because he still behaves as a jerk to put it mildly, judging by his legal strategy.

      • Just imagine, we have legal system where guy can strangle his wife and hide the body, yet possibly be free in 15 years.

        He only killed one person. 15 years is a good enough sentence. If he killed hundreds of thousands we should elect him president instead.

      • Yeah, it doesn't much more clear cut than Reiser's crime. His subsequent antics in prison (e.g. his clownish civil suits) do not suggest a man accepting the gravity of what he has done.

    • Re:ReiserFS (Score:4, Funny)

      by The Evil Atheist ( 2484676 ) on Friday August 06, 2021 @10:02PM (#61665987)
      Too bad the remaining developers washed their Hans of it.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kriston ( 7886 )

      killer file system

      You win today's Slashdot "Line of the Day" award! Congrats.

  • I'm assuming there is a big technological rock in the way of just adapting ntfs-3g into the kernel. Any insight from those who have a deeper understand of filesystems?

    • I'm pretty sure it's a legal rather than a technological roadblock.

    • Because it's based on FUSE, which is about putting filesystems in userland. It's typically used for filesystems that are somewhat unusual or being used in a not-normal-filesystem situation like Docker containers.

  • How does being in kernel benefit Paragon? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by piojo ( 995934 ) on Saturday August 07, 2021 @03:57AM (#61666397)

    Will Paragon be able to sell more support if the software is in kernel? I gather they weren't making a lot of profit by selling drivers on Linux, but why are they going to the trouble to make it easily available to everyone? Prestige? It sounds like a pain in the ass if they've been working on it for so long.

    • Yes, I'm curious too. I actually own a couple of licenses and it seems to work fine. Didn't cost a whole lot of money, but I can't see how they're winning by making it open source. But I'm all for it, seems to work well, more open source, yippee.

    • Re:How does being in kernel benefit Paragon? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by chmod a+x mojo ( 965286 ) on Saturday August 07, 2021 @01:40PM (#61667339)

      How does being in kernel benefit Paragon?

      1: people can just plug and play without worrying about if a distro built the module.
      2: any internal changes to the kernel are done by working concurrently with the authors of the changes for seamless release / build transitions without relying on mailing lists and or getting surprised by the change.
      3: tighter integration with in kernel calls than through the module interface. Could shave off measurable divisions of seconds by being in kernel rather than going through the module interface.
      4: easier collaboration with the other kernel FS guys, who might also know some tricks they can do to get latency down even more. They don't even have to convince them to grab a separate GIT project like if it was a module to be built.
      5: good will of the community and kernel developers. Kernel devs won't be as likely to make changes that may affect performance / building / ETC, and shrug and say "Well, should be in kernel and we might care more.".
      6: they sell other crap for Linux / Mac too, and having your name known with something that works can move product. Due to NTFS-3G they probably didn't sell much of their NTFS driver to Linux users anyways so aren't losing any money on making it free. They may actually MAKE some money if people use it, it works faster / better than NTFS-3G, and people then buy their virtualization stuff or any of their other products.

  • Sure, he is DFL, but does he really deserve the 'B'?

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