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Debian GNU is Not Unix Operating Systems Software Linux

Devuan Jessie 1.0 Officially Released ( 237

prisoninmate quotes a report from Softpedia: Announced for the first time back in November 2014, Devuan is a Debian fork that doesn't use systemd as init system. It took more than two and a half years for it to reach 1.0 milestone, but the wait is now over and Devuan 1.0.0 stable release is here. Based on the packages and software repositories of the Debian GNU/Linux 8 "Jessie" operating system, Devuan 1.0.0 "Jessie" is now considered the first stable version of the GNU/Linux distribution, which stays true to its vision of developing a free Debian OS without systemd. This release is recommended for production use. As Devuan 1.0.0 doesn't ship with systemd, several adjustments needed to be made. For example, the distro uses a systemd-free version of the NetworkManager network connection manager and includes several extra libsystemd0-free packages in its repository.
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Devuan Jessie 1.0 Officially Released

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  • Frostyd (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:28PM (#54487991)

    So, how do I install systemd on this?

  • kudos to Devuan (Score:5, Informative)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:32PM (#54488021)
    but i already have slackware14.2 fixed up nice the way i like it, and i am not wiping all that off to try out a 1.0 release, but still i have to say kudos to Devuan because i am one of those hardcoded systemD haters []
  • by Jack9 ( 11421 ) on Thursday May 25, 2017 @07:37PM (#54488047)

    If Devuan was offered as a default AWS AMI, I would prefer to use it over Debian.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Yes, yes, that's all very interesting, but let's see how inclusive their Code of Conduct is, and what their project diversity stats look like, before we decide to take them seriously.

    I hate systemd but there's no way I'm running any software dominated by a bunch of privileged white men.

  • by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Thursday May 25, 2017 @09:20PM (#54488469)

    and OS instead of children: R! /path/to/remove/.* []

    Pottering's Response:

    I am not sure I'd consider this much of a problem. Yeah, it's a UNIX pitfall, but "rm -rf /foo/.*" will work the exact same way, no?

    Unrelated, I also found sound worked much easier in FreeBSD than it did in Linux with pulseaudio. I wonder who designed that trash.

    • by romiz ( 757548 )
      From what I see in the discussion, the correction has been merged. So it has been recognized as a bug, and corrected as such.
    • I wonder who designed that trash.

      Someone who wanted an audio subsystem capable of meeting the user requirements of people in the 2000s instead of people in the 80s. It's quite telling that every distribution adopted it despite your assertion that it's "trash".

      • by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        Someone who wanted an audio subsystem capable of meeting the user requirements of people in the 2000s instead of people in the 80s. It's quite telling that every distribution adopted it despite your assertion that it's "trash".

        why not.. like.. umm.. late 90's? you know, when it it just worked.

        • Sound on Linux in the late 1990s didn't really "just work". If you were lucky, you could get one application (and only one) to send audio to your audio card. The situation was so bad that many people used ESD, a quick and dirty hack from the Enlightenment people with horrible latency, to try to get something approximating to manageable sound on the GNU/Linux desktop.

          The reason you probably think sound "worked" during the late 1990s was that it was considered a small miracle if sound worked at all, given the lack of drivers, and most people were happy if they reached the point that they got anything to work. Back then it wouldn't matter if running your MP3 player meant no notification noises, because the chances are the latter weren't important (and could be resolved with ESD anyway), and the MP3 player being capable of playing MP3s was "good enough". This problem ran right into the early 2000s.

          It was once the drivers started to work, ALSA reached critical mass, etc, that the shortcomings of having the kernel manage audio as a single device started to really show up.

          PulseAudio has a bad reputation not because it isn't necessary, but because early versions (1) had problems, (2) clashed with mountains of hacks that everyone else had installed to get around the problems kernel audio, and (3) the developer had a reputation for being a little bit prickly.

          If PA wasn't necessary, then given 1-3, do you really think all significant GNU/Linux distributions would have adopted it?

          • OSS in the 90s supported mixing multiple sound sources into a single audio output stream ... on systems other than Linux. Linux imported a crap version of OSS, never improved it, and declared OSS as dead and outdated ... when other OSes were using it just fine.

            FreeBSD still defaults to OSS and supports pretty much all the same non-networked features as pulse.

            OpenBSD has a sndio setup that supports pretty much all the same non-networks features as pulse, also running on top of OSS. sndio is also supported

        • by b0bby ( 201198 )

          why not.. like.. umm.. late 90's? you know, when it it just worked.

          I'm going to add my 2c here - sound on Linux in the late 90s didn't just work, it was a PITA. Maybe you were better than me at figuring it out (wouldn't be hard) or you got lucky, but I used lots of distros back then and sound was always a sticking point.

        • why not.. like.. umm.. late 90's? you know, when it it just worked

          I can see you first used Linux in 2005. Certainly didn't use it in the 90s if you thought it "just worked". Hell the forget "just". Often it didn't work with a huge amount of effort and hacks.

          Say what you want about pulseaudio, it was required to make Linux a possible desktop operating system capable of any kind of multi-media.

      • Is there a reason OSX and Windows don't spam my network with audio data? I forget which distro/version but PulseAudio had multicast on by default.

        every distribution

        And FreeBSD didn't yet in 2017 my audio works. It shows up as a simple device in /dev. It behaves like any other device. Doesn't spam my network with audio chatter.

        • So you don't know how to change a setting and you're complaining. *golfclap*.

          You also know what FreeBSD did in the late 90s and early 2000s? Oh man you're not going to believe this when I tell you. You ready for it? Really? : They abandoned the god fucking awful Linux OSS / ALSA combination and rewrote it from scratch.

          Linux audio was for want of a more technical term: fucked. With pulse audio it now works, despite your weird network / RTFM problem. Not that this is a pulseaudio issue. It's not Pulseaudio's

          • So you don't know how to change a setting and you're complaining. *golfclap*

            I spent a week trying to diagnose *why* my machine was so chatty before narrowing it down to PA. Then turning it off took no time. But having a default setting like that makes no sense.

            rewrote it from scratch.

            No one is claiming that it didn't need re-written. Just like I'm not claiming the old init method couldn't be improved. I take issue with what it was rewritten into. Which is the flaming pile of PulseAudio and SystemD.

            launchd has been out for 12 years now. Ported to FreeBSD and running as NextBSD's init. I have yet to hear of

    • > Unrelated, I also found sound worked much easier in FreeBSD than it did in Linux with pulseaudio.

      But firefox will not work without pulseaudio.

      I think you can only run old versions of chrome on FreeBSD.

      I know you can only run old version of LibreOffice on FreeBSD.

      • Not a single statement you made is true.

        You can turn off PulseAudio in make config.

        Latest download on LibreOffice's website: 5.3.3

        Latest FreeBSD package available: 5.3.3

        Latest available stable chrome(ium)


        Latest available in FreshPorts: 58.0.3029.110

  • by Kryptonut ( 1006779 ) on Thursday May 25, 2017 @09:28PM (#54488497)

    I genuinely mean it, good on them. Systemd isn't of that bigger deal to me, but at least these people have gone ahead and done something instead of just sitting around complaining about the fact that they don't agree with having systemd in a Debian default install. That's my biggest peeve with a lot of people in the Open Source community.....they're good at complaining, but they never do anything about it. These people actually have.

    I wish them all the best and I hope Devuan has a long and happy life. Perhaps I'll check it out some time :)

    • in reality its just a few as usual but unfortunately they are loud as empty vessels tend to be, if it was really that many then RH et al would be doing something about it. Some are ignorant of systemd, some prefer to troll lies about it, some don't want to learn a new trick or two. A few stepped up and realised their dream and now the doubters and trolls have a place to go, we hope they'll all disappear to its forums, be happy and not bother the rest of us.
  • I'm on board (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bruce Perens ( 3872 ) <> on Thursday May 25, 2017 @09:31PM (#54488499) Homepage Journal
    I have installed Devuan on a laptop so far, and will be switching my other systems over time. I had one problem, the lack of a good replacement for network manager, and it seemed that as soon as I complained that the developers put network-manager in the next test release.
  • sweet (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I've been using Devuan for some time now. I actually lack a lot of the required technical expertise to really have an opinion one way or the other about systemd.

    However, I've been around long enough to know what kind of effect, 'dumbing things down has', and it's a great staple in American culture.

    It's this sort of why have 5 buttons when you can have 1 button do everything. If you know what I'm talking about I don't need to explain it, and if you don't, you probably don't care and enjoy things being du

  • by tigersha ( 151319 ) on Friday May 26, 2017 @01:36AM (#54489255) Homepage

    Can I do apt-get install systemd ?

  • You can still run Debian with an init system that is not systemd. In fact, several Debian Developers are doing exactly that. There are even packages in the archive which facilitate using software that would otherwise require systemd as an init system to work without it (see systemd-shim). So what is Devuan doing that Debian doesn't offer already? Is it that Devuan compiles everything without even libsystemd0? But what harm is having libsystemd0 installed if you can at the same time still use your init syste

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