GNOME 3.20 Officially Released (softpedia.com) 193
prisoninmate writes: After yet another six months of hard work, the highly anticipated GNOME 3.20 desktop environment for GNU/Linux operating systems has been officially released on March 23, 2016. Release highlights include support for operating system upgrades via GNOME Software, middle-click paste, kinetic scrolling, drag-and-drop support for Wayland, keyboard shortcuts and gestures overlay for most of the core apps, XDG-Apps technology for installing multiple versions of an app, and much more goodies.
Best improvement (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it as good as Gnome 2 yet?
Re:Best improvement (Score:5, Funny)
Highly anticipated by all two remaining GNOME developers
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do not forget the user. he gets lonely.
Re:Middle-click paste, really? (Score:5, Interesting)
The clipboard actually works in Gnome so it's more useful I guess
If, by "actually works", you mean it modifies what's pasted from what was marked, trying to second-guess the user like in Microsoft Windows' clipboard, yes, I suppose you are right.
However, I kind of like not getting presentation but just raw text when I copy. I don't want the fonts. I don't want artificial line breaks from the presentation. I don't want tabs adjusted so they align. And if I copy an "ø", I don't want it to be translated to unicode.
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Going by windows, most people don't want that, they want full copies. I like what you want most of the time as well but I have to admit in some instances it's nice to get everything.
Re:Middle-click paste, really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Going by windows, most people don't want that, they want full copies. I like what you want most of the time as well but I have to admit in some instances it's nice to get everything.
In Windows, I have to have a notepad2 window open at all times, so I can paste into it, fix formatting, and copy again, so I can paste just text. Because that's almost always what I want.
Re:Middle-click paste, really? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I like Copy to grab everything but Paste needs to offer appropriate choices for the app and not alter the data unless asked. LibreOffice Writer has a nice Ctrl-Shift-V shortcut to paste text without formatting.
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Check out 'Ditto', it's a multiple clipboard utility and one of its features is "paste-as-text", via Shift+Enter. I use this feature All. The. Time. Especially when pasting into Outlook.
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I don't want tabs adjusted so they align
Then you don't want tabs, it seems?
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Then you don't want tabs, it seems?
If there are tabs in the text, I want tabs. If there are spaces, I want spaces. If there are combinations of the two, I want the exact combinations from the source. Not what the clipboard thinks will look good for the destination. That two lines visually align in the source doesn't imply that it's the right thing for them to visually align in the destination.
Try working with Makefiles or fortran programs, and you'll appreciate it when the copy/paste takes the raw data verbatim, and not the rendered out
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I wasn't aware gnome was broken like that. FWIW there's always xsel(1)
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And if I copy an "Ã", I don't want it to be translated to unicode.
What else do you have on your system? And why? And which clipboard does it right? I'm interested in looking up the code. It sounds like it might be a complicated issue. Not getting the font as well sounds a little strange, too, what if it's wingdings?
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Amen!
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If, by "actually works", you mean it modifies what's pasted from what was marked, trying to second-guess the user like in Microsoft Windows' clipboard, yes, I suppose you are right.
Not the user., the program. The clipboard works something like this:
1. User selects some text with the mouse in program A.
2. Program steals a flag called PRIMARY from whoever has it (or CLIPBOARD if the user hits ^C) and holds it up.
3. Someone presses paste on program B
4. B looks at PRIMARY and sees A holding it.
5. Hi A, tell me
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So you complain that the clipboard system alters what you copy... then go on to describe how you want the clipboard system to alter what you copy.
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aw, the remaining fanboi is butthurt.
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Is it as good as Gnome 2 yet?
In my personal opinion, yes it is.
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Drop support for what?
Can you open multiple windows simulaneously yet? (Score:2, Insightful)
I wonder, have they discovered in gnome 3.x that real people need to open real applications on the same screen?
Re:Can you open multiple windows simulaneously yet (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder, have they discovered in gnome 3.x that real people need to open real applications on the same screen?
Or on multiple screens, for that matter.
Or run the desktop environment in a window on a bigger screen (e.g. a VM).
Relying on pointing devices not going past the edge of the screen takes a certain kind of talent.
Re:Can you open multiple windows simulaneously yet (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder, have they discovered in gnome 3.x that real people need to open real applications on the same screen?
Or on multiple screens, for that matter.
Or run the desktop environment in a window on a bigger screen (e.g. a VM).
Relying on pointing devices not going past the edge of the screen takes a certain kind of talent.
You could always press the Super key as an alternative to the hot corner. Or you could install one of the many extensions https://extensions.gnome.org/ [gnome.org] that gives you an alternative way to launch applications. Neither of these things would take as much time out of your day as your slightly odd /. post.
Why should the lack of corners on your virtual machine prevent me from having access to useful features?
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Aren't those extensions the things they promised would be going away in a later release?
I notice you didn't answer whether more than one window can be running at once, so I'm going to guess that means only if you add some other addons....which are likely not to work with the next release.
FWIW, I was just browsing to see if Gnome was again worth installing. Your post did not encourage me, but maybe some other will.
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Aren't those extensions the things they promised would be going away in a later release?
I notice you didn't answer whether more than one window can be running at once, so I'm going to guess that means only if you add some other addons....which are likely not to work with the next release.
FWIW, I was just browsing to see if Gnome was again worth installing. Your post did not encourage me, but maybe some other will.
I really don't understand what you mean. I have multiple windows open all the time. Window management in Gnome is pretty good, IMV.
I tried Gnome 3 on my MacBook about 6 months ago. I instantly loved it and it's now my preferred desktop.
Re:Can you open multiple windows simulaneously yet (Score:4, Interesting)
I really don't understand what you mean. I have multiple windows open all the time.
Say you want three different gnome-terminals. Not one parent and two children, but three separate ones, so if one dies, it doesn't take the others with it.
Or say you want to open a single document in two windows, so you can scroll to separate parts and compare them, or make different changes to the two copies before saving them separately.
Gnome 3 makes stuff like this really hard to achieve.
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I really don't understand what you mean. I have multiple windows open all the time.
Say you want three different gnome-terminals. Not one parent and two children, but three separate ones, so if one dies, it doesn't take the others with it.
Or say you want to open a single document in two windows, so you can scroll to separate parts and compare them, or make different changes to the two copies before saving them separately.
Gnome 3 makes stuff like this really hard to achieve.
I'm still really confused. I've never noticed the problem you described before, so I flipped open my Gnome 3 laptop to check. I found four separate ways to open a new (different) terminal window within a few seconds. I have multiple terminal windows neatly tiled across my desktop in the way you describe. To be fair, though, I have never known Gnome Terminal to crash, so I have no way of testing whether one window failing would bring the others to an ignominious end.
Only one of those four ways needed more th
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I still use X over ssh with gnome 3.18 daily without issue, as I have been with every previous version of gnome shell. What issues are you having?
Try doing an xkill and click one window. Unless things have changed, boom, all of them go. Not good.
Or you use one of the terminals to log in to a remote system, which needs CTRL-H for backspace instead of DEL for backspace. So you change that, and lo and behold, it changes it for all windows, unless you create a whole new profile first (and delete it afterwards if you don't need it).
Similar for color schemes and much else.
There are security implications too (connecting from multiple gnome-terminals to
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(oops - my answer is correct, but my quote isn't. For which I blame Gnome's crappy copy/paste that sometimes disregards what is marked and pastes older stuff from the copy buffer instead.)
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I still use X over ssh with gnome 3.18 daily without issue, as I have been with every previous version of gnome shell. What issues are you having?
Try doing an xkill and click one window. Unless things have changed, boom, all of them go. Not good.
Or you use one of the terminals to log in to a remote system, which needs CTRL-H for backspace instead of DEL for backspace. So you change that, and lo and behold, it changes it for all windows, unless you create a whole new profile first (and delete it afterwards if you don't need it).
Similar for color schemes and much else.
There are security implications too (connecting from multiple gnome-terminals to multiple servers give each destination a venue to attack not just the client machine but the other servers).
Or try entering "gedit .bashrc" from two different terminals (or run prompts). Where's the second window?
None of what you say is remotely relevant to me. I suspect it's also completely irrelevant to 99.9% of other computer users.
However, minorities are important. That's why you have alternatives in Linux. If Gnome 3 doesn't work for you, don't use it. But there's no need to bad-mouth it for the vast majority who have no need for your specialist use cases. Suggesting that something is bad because it doesn't work for you has a horrible way of making you look a little self-centred.
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None of what you say is remotely relevant to me. I suspect it's also completely irrelevant to 99.9% of other computer users.
However, minorities are important. That's why you have alternatives in Linux. If Gnome 3 doesn't work for you, don't use it. But there's no need to bad-mouth it for the vast majority who have no need for your specialist use cases. Suggesting that something is bad because it doesn't work for you has a horrible way of making you look a little self-centred.
99.9% of flies eat shit.
You know nothing about what other users do or don't, which is why you had to ask. Don't presume to know that 99.9% of us don't do what you do.
This isn't new functionality I'm requesting; it's what used to be standard functionality that has been ripped out because of a new generation of developers who just don't give a levitating copulation about anything they themselves don't use, no matter how prevalent it may be among others. They grew up with the limitations of Windows, and don
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Then you are not relevant to me. Because all of what he said is highly relevant to me. And I can't even imagine anyone thinking it is not relevant to them. But that is my problem. More power to you. I won't belittle independent thought if you don't.
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None of what you say is remotely relevant to me. I suspect it's also completely irrelevant to 99.9% of other computer users.
No it isn't.
However, minorities are important. That's why you have alternatives in Linux. If Gnome 3 doesn't work for you, don't use it.
I dumped a few years ago because it dumped all of the things that makes it useful to someone who needs to drive their productivity to a UI that is malleable. Not Windows, not MAC, a native, high performance Linux UI with all of the configurability a long time Linux user is used to.
I wondered if was time to re-visit Gnome 3 and I can see from your post that it isn't. Thank you for saving me the effort.
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It turns out I was simply wrong but rather than admit it, "nobody actually needs this feature."
Class act, bro.
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Thank you. I don't need to do those things very often, but I need to do them too often to need to change window managers before doing them.
So your answer to me is that for me Gnome3 isn't worth installing.
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We had a code base that was not flexible, what you are seeing albeit in slow motion is a code base evolving so that we can add more flexibility and more design and thought. So yes, we had to remove features and then we added them later. If we are guilty of anything it is probably that we don't communicate as well as we should.
In the end, we are proud of the body of work we have produced. A desktop with a distinct and unique character that isn't a derivative of somebody elses's desktop but something that
I'll Take the Derivative (Score:2)
I would much prefer a derivative desktop that I enjoyed using than a desktop that stands on its own but I find frustrating.
Furthermore, in my opinion it isn't the lack of communication; it is putting a few "designers" preferences over what looks good over the function and workflow of users and former users. At this point I don't trust the GNOME leadership enough to even use classic. Thankfully I am enjoying Cinnamon and am finally back on Linux.
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I'm assuming that you are a Gnome3 developer.
From my point of view Gnome3 is in every measurable way inferior to Gnome1 (well, the final version of Gnome1). I've got to assume you are using some different metric than anything I do.
OTOH, my opinion of Gnome3 is based on a version over a year old. I was just checking to see if it had improved to the point where I should try it again. Answers that others have given have clearly indicated that the flaws that caused me to remove it have not been addressed, so
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Try doing an xkill and click one window. Unless things have changed, boom, all of them go. Not good.
Right-click launcher, select "New Window."
New Terminal does what you describe while New Window gives you a separate process.
Or try entering "gedit .bashrc" from two different terminals (or run prompts). Where's the second window?
Same with gedit. To do it from the command line use gedit --new-window or gedit -s.
There are security implications too (connecting from multiple gnome-terminals to multiple servers give each destination a venue to attack not just the client machine but the other servers).
I have no idea what you mean by this.
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No. When Gnome 3 first came out a lot of the features that had been removed were made available as add-ons. It was announced that in a future versions those add-ons would be obsoleted. I don't remember the name used, so I'm assuming without much certainty that the extensions being referred to are the same items.
FWIW, it is my practice to generally avoid such non-standard extensions/add-ons/tool-kits as I usually find that at some point they stop working for some reason. In the case of FireFox the only o
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I wonder, have they discovered in gnome 3.x that real people need to open real applications on the same screen?
Or on multiple screens, for that matter.
Or run the desktop environment in a window on a bigger screen (e.g. a VM).
Relying on pointing devices not going past the edge of the screen takes a certain kind of talent.
You could always press the Super key as an alternative to the hot corner. Or you could install one of the many extensions https://extensions.gnome.org/ [gnome.org] that gives you an alternative way to launch applications. Neither of these things would take as much time out of your day as your slightly odd /. post.
Why should the lack of corners on your virtual machine prevent me from having access to useful features?
One of the best extensions is taskBar
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Also, have they fixed the impossibility of running Gnome Desktop on multiple machines with an NFS-mounted home directory? Last time I tried that, all preferences (the gconf database) got hopelessly scrambled if you changed anything.
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They actually have an issue with that? Once upon a time all my systems mounted the same /home/armanox from a central location, so that everything was the same on all desktops in the house.
Keyboard Shortcuts doesn't come close to WebStorm (Score:3)
I see the video @ 0:58 mentions "Keyboard Shortcuts"
https://youtu.be/JU2f_jkPRq4?t... [youtu.be]
While Keyboard Shortcuts is making great strides at being more use accessible it still doesn't hold a candle to how WebStorm handles shortcuts. Namely, what makes Webstorm great is that you can *search* ALL of the UI for hotkeys / shortcuts and it shows ALL the menu locations for partial matches.
* https://youtu.be/PNZJox8pkls [youtu.be]
* https://www.jetbrains.com/img/... [jetbrains.com]
two words (Score:2, Informative)
MATE and Cinnamon
This is a fork of... (Score:5, Funny)
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A bad one obviously...
That said, I found last XFCE even better than MATE. Very easy to configure XFCE the way I want, and it provides more feature than MATE.
Wait..."Guh-Nome"? (Score:2, Interesting)
Wait..."Guh-Nome"? Is that how it's really pronounced??
I've always pronounced it "gnome", as in "garden gnome", or like "Nome, Alaska".
Is it really supposed to be pronounced "guh-nome"??
And Gnome has keyboard shortcuts for "some" of the apps? Will these miraculous wonders never cease?
With groundbreaking innovation like this it's like living in 1998 all over again. I mean, keyboard shortcuts, wow. MIND BLOWN!
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I always pronounced it G-nome out of fear that otherwise no one would understand what I was talking about. Same with Gnu.
Same here, except GNU.
Plus, guh-edit? Nonsense, Gee-Edit. Gee-podder, not guh-podder, etc.
Guh-new is how I say GNU.
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I always thought it was Gnome as in Gnocchi. :)
But in all seriousness it's not that hard.
Just don't aspirate the 'g'. i.e. think of pronouncing the word 'ignore' but without the initial vowel.
How-hum (Score:2)
Being a former KDE user - abandoned after they went to the Windows 10 look alike - POS! I looked at gnome, Mate and Cinnamon. I went with Cinnamon - I like it - it's light weight and works really nice - and NOT a Windows 10 look alike!
Re:How-hum (Score:4, Insightful)
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Sorry. Trinity is dead in the water.
What he should look at is Lumina [lumina-desktop.org].
Burn me at the stake, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
...i've grown to kinda like Gnome 3.
It is far from perfect, sure - the configuration settings are still dumbed down beyond belief and some default UI choices (like the automatic window snapping on screen edges) are hard to justify. But it is a good looking, very easy to use DM which also happens to be consistent when used on touchscreen devices, something the rest of the Linux world somehow still struggles with.
I try other DMs from time to time and always end up coming back. The only real contender Gnome 3 has is XFCE, which is what Gnome 2 should've always been in the first place.
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Well, Cinnamon as well, which is not half bad i might add.
Re:Burn me at the stake, but... (Score:4)
I like it as well, it was really bad early on but they've slowly been adding the customization back and yea it's dumbed down tremendously. But I like the look and the performance. It's no longer painful and is relatively useful in Jessie and I really like how easy they've made some things even if it costs me other things. I particularly like the modular nature of some of the desktop features and that I can add features I want and remove features I don't. T
hough I don't like how they keep moving things around. When they moved the settings in the Jessie release it took me like 10 minutes to find them again, felt like I was on Windows with the continual movements of settings so you have to relearn how to do things over and over again.
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I actually really liked Gnome 3 in Jessie as well. I liked it so much that I decided to see how much better it was in the latest version of Xubuntu. Unfortunately, in the latest versions of Gnome, they removed every single useful feature I liked about Gnome 3 in Jessie. That was actually enough to make me switch back to XFCE on Jessie since there is no point in becoming an expert in a desktop environment that drastically changes every few months. XFCE has looked and worked the same for as long as I can
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You should keep in mind that Gnome3 may be the way it is in Jessie because of Debian and it may be the way it is Xubuntu because of Canonical. The packager can enable or disable all those features. My bet is the Debian team went for usability.
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I actually misspoke. I had switched to the latest version of Ubuntu Gnome. They claim to be a mostly pure implementation of Gnome and I would imagine that Debian is too. The biggest features that were missing were the things revolving around the Super-M functionality and it's implementation in the switcher. That seemed like a genuinely useful feature and I was willing to learn the eccentricities of Gnome for it. It's gone in the latest versions.
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The Debian packagers rarely package vanilla on major packages. The Debian package teams often make significant changes and incorporate features and patches all the time that aren't in the vanilla. It's one of the things I really like about Debian, the people packaging the software actually use it and often go for usability above and beyond what the developers did. The disadvantage is that the Debian package often has differences to vanilla but it's never anything that's hurt me.
You best check on what Debian
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Did you try the last XFCE ? I was using Gnome 2 and then MATE that looked promising, but the last XFCE is now the best for my workload.
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So discoverable. Hold the secret key!
Windows 8 does this exact same thing to hide how to reboot in safe mode from you.
And there's the "hold Shift to add 'open a command window here' to the context menu" thing going back to at least 7, too. What the hell?
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Does any window manager do this? : (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing I've always wanted is the ability to open a context menu, select an item, and keep the bloody menu open.
Does any OS/WM do this? RISC OS used to (with the right mouse button) but I've never seen it anywhere else.
Re:Does any window manager do this? : (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing I've always wanted is the ability to open a context menu, select an item, and keep the bloody menu open.
Does any OS/WM do this? RISC OS used to (with the right mouse button) but I've never seen it anywhere else.
"Menu Tear" used to be standard, where you could discouple a menu from its menubar, and keep it open for as long as you liked. MWM has it, SGI's 4Dwm had it, CDE (Common Desktop Environment, used by Sun and others) had it.
I'm unsure whether KDE or Gnome is the culprit here, but it seems to be missing from most desktop environments these days.
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GTK does support menu tear, but i've rarely seen an app using this feature.
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MWM has it, SGI's 4Dwm had it, CDE (Common Desktop Environment, used by Sun and others) had it.
MWM may have had tearable menus first, not sure, but the first place I saw them was on NeXTstep, in 1990. One of many good ideas that Apple discarded when they turned NeXTstep into OS X.
GnuStep has tearable menus, as does WindowMaker.
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I wonder if that's a feature that still exists in MaXX (a Linux port of 4DWM)....I'll have to check, but first I'll check on my Octane because I don't remember it being there before.
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Fully agree. The main problem is that most projects wanted to bring new ideas by removing existing features. There nothing wrong to try new ideas, but it's very wrong to impose it to the users and to remove comparaison between implementations.
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Um, no. GNOME shell was created because GNOME 2 was too limited in how one could change the UI. When designers came on board, they wanted a way to easily change the visual aspects of the UI without having to change the platform underneath to suit. GNOME 3 was really about the separation of the UI from the platform and putting all the UI elements in shell. GNOME designers have their own ideas of what constitutes their own UI, and the visual look of GNOME does not look like windows or OSX and has its own
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(IIRC) WindowMaker and AfterStep both have it.
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RISC OS? Cool. For a long time, I thought only the Amiga had that feature, and I absolutely loved it.
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With a few extensions, it is now fully usable and comparable to any other Environments. Just compare it to 3.10 and see how much ground they've covered.
Like, they *now* have middle-click paste.
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Although the summary's not very clear (thanks, <strike>Obama</strike>Slashdot!), I'm pretty sure that's on Wayland, since I've been using middle-click paste with Gnome3 for ages now.
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Like, they *now* have middle-click paste.
Do they also now have decoupling of focus and z-order, which is what makes left-mark-copy/middle-click-paste truly useful?
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Their desktop vision is really coming together.
Like the perfectly functional desktop they had FIVE YEARS AGO and then completely trashed because "touch screen"?
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Re:Based on the video, it's still total shit. (Score:4, Interesting)
And why the *** is there so much empty space all over the place?! I bought a 28" monitor so that it could be filled with useful content, not just empty gray areas with nothing in them!
Pick up a book. Any book will do so long as it's been professionally published. Look at the white space around the text, and reflect on why the publisher made you purchase all of that expensive blank paper.
White space can communicate effectively. Hostile vulgarity rarely does.
Re:Based on the video, it's still total shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Pick up a book. Any book will do so long as it's been professionally published. Look at the white space around the text, and reflect on why the publisher made you purchase all of that expensive blank paper.
Books have spines. Which combined with centering text accounts for most of the white space. The rest makes it possible to hold the book and turn pages without obscuring the text.
And there's still like 90-95% text and only 5-10% white space. At least in the books I read. Yours may have a way lower text ratio, which might not say so much about the book...
Re:Based on the video, it's still total shit. (Score:4, Informative)
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Books are not computer user interfaces. You're not comparing like concepts.
Take GNOME 2 (or Mate) and GNOME 3. Compared the information density between both and what you can see on the same screen at any given time. GNOME 2/Mate makes better use of available screen real estate, whereas GNOME 3 has more padding and less space to show the actual useful stuff.
I fucking HATE this trend of lowering information density. It means having to scroll more and not take advantage of larger screen sizes. I suppose it's g
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Translation: a hipster asked three other hipsters what looked most hip.
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I just took a quick look at Tufte. He seems to advocate reading papers over PowerPoint. Now which has more white space? You might be extrapolating much more than you should.
Any of this in peer reviewed journals?
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The main thing I took away from the video is that I get really annoyed by people pronouncing the word "gnome" with a hard G.
Re:Gnome 3 pushed me to OS X (Score:4, Interesting)
No regret. No coming back. Linux is for server-side through SSH only.
Tunneling X through SSH is nice and easy.
As long as you don't use Gnome on either end, that is. Then it's hell.
Remote X capabilities went downhill already with Gnome 2, but with 3, it's just not usable at all.
Re:Gnome 3 pushed me to OS X (Score:5, Interesting)
I still use X over ssh with gnome 3.18 daily without issue, as I have been with every previous version of gnome shell. What issues are you having?
All kinds, really. Sometimes fatal errors because it wants to use shm or gvfs, neither of which works over a network. Or other assumptions - here are a couple from Gnome 2 (I don't have a Gnome 3 system nearby, because it just doesn't work for me):
$ gnome-calculator
(process:19434): Gtk-CRITICAL **: set_table: assertion `buffer->tag_table == NULL' failed
$ nautilus .
Initializing nautilus-gdu extension
Nautilus module initialize
nautilus_module_list_types()
Initializing nautilus-open-terminal extension
** (nautilus:19514): WARNING **: Failed to get the current CK session: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.GeneralError: Unable to lookup session information for process '19514'
$ gnote
(gnote:19650): libtomboy-WARNING **: Binding 'F12' failed!
(gnote:19650): libtomboy-WARNING **: Binding 'F11' failed!
[and then it hangs]
Programs that aren't gnome-related work with no problems.
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All kinds, really. Sometimes fatal errors because it wants to use shm or gvfs, neither of which works over a network. Or other assumptions - here are a couple from Gnome 2 (I don't have a Gnome 3 system nearby, because it just doesn't work for me):
Works for me with Gnome 3. It's laggy as hell, but that's X forwarding for you. Haven't used Gnome 2 in so long I have no way to test it. Your errors look like some kind of library conflicts are going on. Is the desktop on the remote machine fully functional on its own?
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That's one of the things I love about Sun keyboards, the compose key.
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Wait, you're supposed to pronounce the leading G?
You misheard, it's actually "Knome". You know, from your favorite DE makers.
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Perhaps she's a G-german?
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