Linux Port For id's Tech 5 Graphics Engine Unlikely 461
DesiVideoGamer writes "John Carmack, the lead developer for id's Tech 5 graphics engine, does not plan on making a Linux port for the new engine. From his e-mail: 'It isn't out of the question, but I don't think we will be able to justify the work. If there are hundreds of thousands of Linux users playing Quake Live when we are done with Rage, that would certainly influence our decision.' One of the reasons for not making a Linux port was due to the fact that the new engine 'pushes a lot of paths that are not usually optimized' and that the Linux port would have to use the binary blob graphics driver in order to work."
Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux Gaming not a huge market...more at 11pm
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Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)
But it is a market with very little piracy of native games. Also, very little competition, so you have a better penetration rate. Not sure if it is enough, but it is substantial.
100% of "very small" is still "very small"...
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)
But it is a market with very little piracy of native games. Also, very little competition, so you have a better penetration rate. Not sure if it is enough, but it is substantial.
100% of "very small" is still "very small"...
I guess we have different definitions of small. If half the Linux users would all send me a buck, I think you might consider that to be a bit of cash.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Funny)
Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.
Nope. I didn't buy all those iD games the day the Linux port came out. Never happened.
;)
And Red Hat and Crosover Office really don't make money at all... It is all a myth.
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)
The plural of "anecdote" is not "proof".
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Informative)
You don't need a "plural." A singular positive anecdote is enough to disprove a categorical negative assertion.
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)
"It never snows in August"
"Categorically wrong. Your assertion is untrue. Study the 'little ice age' of the medieval period."
"Uh.. anyway, since it never snows in August..." *rolls eyes*
Natural languages would break if they were consistently held to mathematical and logical rigor. Your statement may be technically accurate, but the OP may still be 'right'.
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Interesting)
> The plural of "anecdote" is not "proof".
Perhaps you accept as some sort of 'proof' a game developer's viewpoint....like Frictionalgames (Penumbra Series), who even wrote a big thank you note on their page after the Linux version deal got mentioned on Slashdot and people subsequently bought the games (I was one of them and I only ever buy games for Linux). In fact, from the note it appeared, that they teetered on the edge of development with a new version of Penumbra, but due to the sudden influx of cash they'll now happily go forward full steam.
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Nope. I didn't buy all those iD games the day the Linux port came out. Never happened.
The problem is that this never happens often enough.
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And Red Hat and Crosover Office really don't make money at all... It is all a myth. ;)
I know you're being sarcastic, but what about Loki Games?
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I'm not sure about Loki specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't been killed by WINE. I can't speak for the Linux market specifically, but I recently bought a copy of Homeworld 2, and in spite of not using Windows, I got the Windows version rather than the Mac port. The Windows version runs nicely under Darwine (although it needed a little hoop-jumping to get it installed) and I know that it will run at least as well on my next x86 computer, as long as it runs one of the platforms that WIN
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Point: Loki Games no longer exists. [lokigames.com]
I think that proves the point.
And BTW, based on the forum responses in the slashdot-linked article, it reminded me why Linux is not (and probably never will be) widespread on the desktop: just to get the damn OS (of whatever distro you chose) running, you have to go to a forum filled with people like them and beg for help only to get a bunch of asstard responses, and then come back again whenever you're trying to find/learn another new program.
No thanks.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Interesting)
a few years ago I had to use project 2003 for a class. I was attempting to run only linux on my laptop at the time. It didn't support it.. I put down my pledge. 1.5 years later I get an email saying "This now works on crossover office, pay up!" I no longer needed it, but went over to check out its status. Their definition of "it works" was several users claiming "garbage won't even start" and one user claiming "I got it to run..but you can't open anything, save anything.. or pretty much do anything" and they considered that delivering on their end of the bargain.
They want to make linux appealing, they need to work just a tad bit harder than that.
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The point of WINE is to help your migration path to Linux. If you have an app that only runs under Windows and you need some time
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.
Do Windows users??
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Do Windows users [pay for anything]??
Hardware.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Funny)
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You are full of crap. I have purchased *dozens* of commercial games for Linux: Wolfenstien 2, Heroes3, Doom3, Heretic 2, Myth 2, Goo, Sim City 3000, are just a few I can remember of the top of my head. All commercial. All Linux based. And I am certainly not alone.
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Sure but the real issue is, not if the AC is full of crap, but is Carmack full of crap when he says that your purchases (and those of your fellow Linux game buyers) aren't themselves enough to justify the expense of porting this engine? Certainly he has access to id's sales stats. Why would he lie about such a thing? And furthermore, if the Linux game market is so fertile, yet underserved, someone such as yourself should be able to make a killing funding a Linux games startup.
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it sounds like this time id went for dx10 - even thou
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Informative)
The big issue is the stability of the OpenGL 3.x codepaths on Linux. You'll need some relatively up to date drivers(binary blobs) to get all those new calls working. And no guarantees it won't break, later.
Since OpenGL 3.x and DX10/11 share a lot, it should be more straightforward than it was in the past porting from one to the other. The major differences between OGL and DX have partially been eliminated. Thanks to The Khronos Group, they're both moving in the same direction.
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The "complaint" about the binary drivers really seems to be the most senseless of all.
If I am willing to run Carmack's proprietary code and pay for the priveledge, the idea
of running some binary driver doesn't seem like much of a stretch really. I really don't
see the problem.
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I ("only") minor in CS, but to my understanding, if you dev an application on a certain (cross plattform) api, it should easily be adapted to other plattforms.
Not harsh enough. If an application is developed on a cross-platform API, it should work without modification on every platform which has that particular API framework installed. If it doesn't, the API isn't cross-platform.
If id code a game engine which runs on OpenGL 3, it should run on OpenGL 3 in Linux, Windows, Mac, my SE mobiel phone... Any device which has "OpenGL 3 compatible" somewhere in its description. I shouldn't have to dick about with something to make it work if it says it runs the framework
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Informative)
DX10 came out November 30, 2006 - which gave DX10 devs geometry shaders
The OpenGL 3.2 spec was released 21 days ago (spec != drivers though!), which finally put Geometry shaders into the core specification. That's only, what, almost 3 years after DX developers got them.
So... if you need to use geometry shaders in your game, what GL extension do you code against? GL_EXT_geometry_shader4? GL_ARB_geometry_shader4? NV_geometry_program? or the core spec? Chances are you'll end up coding against all 4, because you can be absolutely certain most cards will support 1 of those extensions, but each card will probably support a different one.
If the Khronos group keep insisting that they must keep the OpenGL APi 3 years behind D3D10, it's not difficult to see why developers aren't all that keen to go with OpenGL. If the Khronos group continue to keep giving us information which they later back track on (like the entire OpenGL3 spec), it's not surprising to see game developers ditching OpenGL3 in droves. To see Carmack ditching OpenGL really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone working with OpenGL3. I've worked with OpenGL for the past ten years or so, and I'm sad to say that I'm currently stripping all OpenGL out of our codebase in favour of the 'other' API. Currently it seems to be what every developer is doing at the moment. OpenGL is just a royal pita these days. Let it die.
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It's an ID game. It's a foregone conclusion that you are targeting people
that have the better hardware. Nothing changes really. This same "constraint"
is already in place anyways. People who buy his games aren't doing it so they
can run his code on "sucky video cards".
This "problem" isn't exactly something new.
It sounds like a lot of BS to cover up the fact that someone else is calling the shots.
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Ummm, I purchased Nero for Linux just a few weeks back.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)
100% market penetration for yet another first person shooter. A cutting edge first person shooter. On an OS whose users like to brag about how shitty and old their PC is.
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How many of those 3 million are sitting headless somewhere, serving up files or running batch jobs?
20% of gamers that run Linux, have a decent enough PC, and enjoy FPSes might be more reasonable.
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Re:Big news... (Score:4, Interesting)
So you're claiming all those phones, TiVo's, GPS's and other embedded machines ARE capable of running a cutting edge FPS?
The question is; how many of those Linux systems are desktop PC's with powerful enough hardware to run the very latest in gaming technology?
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Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)
On what do you base that first assertion? Because you wish it were true, because Linux users are somehow better?
I would have said a similar thing about indie games once, particularly those who support their fanbase well and opt for no-DRM releases. Then World of Goo, which calls home for one of the online features in the game, reported a near-90% piracy rate. They even gave out the first world as a free demo, for chrissakes.
The fact is, there's nothing unique about Linux that's going to somehow reduce the piracy rate. I mean, let's face the facts: it's a group of users savvy enough to get their hands on a distributable (possibly via torrent), who have opted for a free OS with tons of free software, and who tend (if this very site is to be believed) statistically towards antiestablishmentarianism. We're hardly ideal customers for anything we can't recommend for purchase at work.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically what they are saying here is that after over a ten years of Linux development they are unable to effortlessly and painlessly port the game to the platform, or without taking some hard measures that could backfire, being nasty or buggy.
There is little criticism in the Linux community in general, so you would never really hear the X-windows system is probably the worst piece of software ever written or that Linux drivers do not really exist as the frequent kernel changes makes vendor software drivers invalid, lots of people got alienated over the years and even enthusiast now say something like that they've stopped worrying about Linux and love Windows. A sad story.
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Interesting)
Gee, I wonder why? It's not like Linux is a different OS and id Tech 5 is a gigantic codebase or anything like that? Oh wait.
Besides, he never said "OMG LUNIX IS THE WORST THING EVER GUYS I CAN'T PORT IT TO THIS PIECE OF SHIT LOL", he said "It isn't out of the question, but I don't think we will be able to justify the work." That's hardly the scathing criticism of Linux you so desperately try to make it out to be. Hell, it isn't even a criticism of Linux at all.
He said nothing of the sort, you're just making shit up here. RTFA. What he said was that it'd probably only work on closed source drivers. Not that he can't get it running on Linux without accidentally opening a gateway far into the depths of hell.
No, not really.
No, not even close. It's got a lot of cruft, but it's still managed to keep up with the times quite well. Furthermore, most of the complaints people make about are absurd, outdated, or just plain wrong. Like the ever classic "X uses a server and has network transparency so it uses the network for everything even locally so it's SLOW LOL". Which would be a fine complaint if it weren't for the fact that it is wrong. Locally it'd use Unix sockets, a very different thing from network sockets. Actually, it wouldn't even use that, it'd use shared memory, directly communicating with the server, and avoiding any overhead. So yes, you wouldn't hear that sort of complaint much except from idiots.
It sure makes things easier when you completely redefine words to your liking, doesn't it? The lack of a stable driver API doesn't mean "drivers don't exist". People can either update their drivers themselves to keep up with the latest kernels, or get them in the kernel itself and not have to worry about such a thing anymore. However just because the driver might break on newer versions doesn't make it stop working on older versions and doesn't make it "not exist". In fact, quite a few of them exist; probably more than any other OS comes with out of the box, even Windows. (Certainly more than any OS that's not Windows comes with)
Oh hey that's funny because lots of people I know got alienated by Windows over the years and now say something like they've stopped worrying about Windows and love Linux! Clearly the year of the Linux desktop is finally at hand! (If you don't get what I'm going for here, "the plural of anecdote is not data", especially not anecdotes personally gathered from acquaintances, a, too put it lightly, rather biased group.)
The only thing sad is how your post consists entirely of bullshit, nonsense, and outright lies.
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so you would never really hear the X-windows system is probably the worst piece of software ever written
ORLY? let's see you backing that up with some reliable data. Something better than the "it's 20 years old!" and "it uses the network!" idiocy that gets posted to Slashdot so often, preferably.
or that Linux drivers do not really exist as the frequent kernel changes makes vendor software drivers invalid
Carmack's argument is that he can't port it easily without relying on closed-source drivers, and you somehow derive from this that Linux needs *more* closed-source drivers? or are you just trolling out of context here?
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It is not that Linux has a small market, ID claims technical problems with the Blog drivers.
This is sad because a lot of Gameheads are locked into Windows for playing games, and if Linux versions had existed you'd see more Gamehead defections to Linux because most hate Windows crashing on them or causing lags in the game when it eats up resource memory. If only Video Card makers would open up their standards so open source drivers can be used for them. My Nvidia chipset driver for Linux is limited to 2D sup
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ATI opened their specs, as well as Intel. Even reverse-engineered drivers for NVidia are coming.
But they're long way off.
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Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)
If he really meant that, I'd put together a Linux box and play QL on it.
I'm all for more companies actually making games working natively on Linux. Games are the only reason I use Windows at all.
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"-#3-From what I have been told (not a game developer, so I don't know how accurate it is) OpenGL is simply no where near parity with DirectX."
I'll help clarify this. See, OpenGL can't compare with DirectX, because DirectX is just more than a graphics package - it's input, sound, video, networking, etc. You need to compare OpenGL to Direct3D, and in doing so, OpenGL wins, because it's an extensible graphics language where you can add in commands not originally built into the spec. Direct3D makes up a spec t
Re:Big news... (Score:4, Interesting)
Say you've a feature that isn't part of the OpenGL spec and has been introduced into nVidia and ATI's latest cards. Both the companies will want an implementation of this feature optimised for their cards so as a coder, if you want to put this feature in your game, you're going to have to code it in twice and it's probably going to produce slightly different visuals for each manufacturer. It's a lot of extra coding and testing work.
Then, when it comes up to drawing a new spec for the latest version, you'll have two of your most important contributors arguing over which implementation to use and the spec gets delayed.
With D3D they talk to all the manufacturers and say "this is how the feature will work, design your card to use it". If they want their card to be DX18 or whatever, they've got to implement it that way. It can mean you have to wait between revisions for new features but it prevents the kind of divergence than a graphics API is supposed to prevent in the first place.
Re:Big news... (Score:5, Interesting)
Very little piracy for Linux games?
That is absolutely false. The piracy even worse because the market is small enough as it is, a small percentage will push the product from barely profitable to absolute loss.
The problem has got so bad that Linux Game Publishing (Major porter of games to Linux and a successor of Loki) were forced to implement DRM for their releases:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=lgp_copy_protection&num=1 [phoronix.com]
And they didn't like doing it one bit. Here is a quote from the above linked article by LGP's CEO Michael Simms:
When this game copy protection system became known with LGP's closed testing community, it had enraged some users. In response, the CEO of Linux Game Publishing, Michael Simms, had a few things to say. "Trust me, I don't like it, I'm not happy about it, but we HAVE to do this. I've fought for 6 years against the need for any kind of protection system and all that's happened is that for every legitimate copy of an LGP game out there, there are probably 3-4 pirated copies. That's the difference between success and failure."
Now I know everyone here buys their Linux games, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to the number of pirates out there that care not for it.
I'm sure there are plenty here that don't (Score:3, Insightful)
If you read Slashdot for more than a little while, you find a non-trivial amount of posters that seem to think charging any money for software is wrong. "Information wants to be free," and all that. They believe everything electronic should be no cost. That is part of why they use Linux.
Well, it would be no surprise at all if those people copied their games. After all, they believe it is right. There is no ethical dilemma for them, they think this is how it should be.
Also, doesn't matter if there is very li
Like games and run Linux? Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Buy every Linux release.
I have a policy: If I think I'll get more than a few hours of entertainment out of a game and it runs on Linux, I buy it.
I've purchased a bunch of Id releases (Q3, Q4, D3), a couple S2 titles (Savage 2, Heroes of Newerth), World of Goo, UT 2k3, Neverwinter Nights, and a few others. These games are WELL WORTH their box price, and I'm telling these developers to keep it up with their linux ports.
I would bet if every gamer that also runs Linux does the same, we'd see a lot more Linu
Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
I've come to count on id porting their games, so I'm disappointed over this bit of news.
I use the proprietary Nvidia blob (version 180) for my Nvidia 8400 and I have no qualms about it. Windows users use proprietary drivers for practically every card that I've seen over the years, so how is it any different in principle if you replace Windows with Linux? While I take open stuff when I can get it, I would rather have a video card and wireless device that works on Linux. Not every Linux user sees things the same way that RMS does by insisting on a 100% FOSS operating system. While you can have that if you want it, I prefer the freedom of being able to mix and match as I see fit.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
You and your "freedom". When will you realize that RMS can do no wrong? Give up your quaint notions, your "thinking for yourself", and bask in the glory of his beard!
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I wasn't being satirical... The Beard knows all!!!!.... OK, I can't handle that any more. Back to reality.
Personally, I agree with you. The Cult of RMS is just that. If you don't fully drink the Kool Aid, you are outcast and unclean. That closed minded thinking annoys me to no end.
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It's late here... Is this serious or no?
Binary driver on open source operating system (Score:3, Insightful)
There is no reason to attack RMS over this. RMS is just telling the true stupidity which breaks the main purpose of Linux OS.
Even using latest OS X and only Macs, I can understand how ridicolous the binary "blob" driver is. One doesn't need to be a GNU fanatic to do so.
What was the reason behind binary blob drivers again? Evil competitors stealing x86 code? What competitor really? It is just ATI and Nvidia left. ATI already went open , Intel was always open but not really a gaming GPU company. It is not RMS
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I am curious why he said that.
I don't think doom 3 or quake 4 runs with the non-free nvidia drivers. Not sure why he thinks this is suddenly a problem.
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Problem with that is, I still see less than no point to Quake Live, other than that it's free. And even that doesn't buy much.
Why would I play Quake Live instead of, say, Nexuiz?
I think low usage of Quake Live would point more to the average Linux user being somewhat more discriminating, and actually taking the step to think about it before downloading random browser plugins.
If I'm only playing Quake Live to show him that there's another Linux user, maybe. But even here, I sort of don't see the point -- if
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I couldn't agree with you more. I have no interest in "Quakelive", yet I, too, purchased Quake 4 and Doom 3 (and many others) for Linux. Of course one problem was that we couldn't really buy the LINUX version, we had to buy the MS-Windows version, the download the Linux binary from the website and use the WAD files and l
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Better yet, why would I play Quake Live instead of Quake 3 on linux?
One of them runs a hell of a lot better in linux, allows me to set up my own servers with mods, and is much easier to play with friends on the fly.
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If you insist on a 100% "Free" system with no closed-source software, then you're unlikely to purchase a proprietary closed-source game, even if it is likely get open sourced 10 years later.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
First they implemented video card drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because I was happy playing games.
Then they implemented the network drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because I enjoyed faster network connectivity.
Then they implemented the storage drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because now the latest hardware ran in Linux.
Then they implemented my kernel as a blob, and there was nobody left to speak up for me because their systems were causing kernel panics because of all the blobs that nobody could debug.
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I use the proprietary Nvidia blob (version 180) for my Nvidia 8400 and I have no qualms about it. Windows users use proprietary drivers for practically every card that I've seen over the years, so how is it any different in principle if you replace Windows with Linux? While I take open stuff when I can get it, I would rather have a video card and wireless device that works on Linux. Not every Linux user sees things the same way that RMS does by insisting on a 100% FOSS operating system. While you can have
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Well, that is not necessarily an indication that the driver is crashing. The card could be faulty in one of its 3D rendering pipelines or some part only engaged in 3D mode. By using the vesa (2D) driver that faulty part is not engaged therefore the PC doesn't crash.
You heard the man (Score:4, Interesting)
Play Quake live and get some meaningful stats back to a major developer.
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Wait, wasn't it an insult back in the days to say that an OS was good for nothing but games? Not that I boot up Vista very often anyhow, but the only real reason I've logged back into that thing was because of a recent GOG.com sale. It's like Windows is now a new gaming console at my house, except that this one bugs me about drivers and DRM on a regular basis.
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Seriously? Drivers, yeah, I understand that. A better distribution mechanism would be nice although I suppose Windows Update is better than having to actually seek out & download the installer yourself. But DRM? Windows doesn't include any DRM for controlling access to executables. The only built-in DRM is for media playing, like Bluray and DVDs and crappy audio files. (Window
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Yes, I'm on Slashdot, and I mentioned Windows and DRM in the same sentence. But they're not related, no. I know, take a breath. It'll be okay.
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Who here has the skill and will, to write a virus that infects a large botnet, to turn the bots into Quake live for Linux players?
I bet *you* do. :)
Binary blob ... eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
"and that the Linux port would have to use the binary blob graphics driver in order to work"
From TFA, it seems that Carmack believes it would be hard to get the necessary performance without using the NVidia drivers. It's somewhat surprising to me if it wouldn't be possible to get it running acceptably on anything else, even if the game does use a lot of advanced features - but if Carmack says so!
However I'm not so keen on his assertion that if you're using the binary drivers you might as well run the code under Windows. I guess this probably *does* make sense for most people, since there are relatively few people who don't have a Windows license available somewhere. However, it would be *nicer* not to have to reboot into Windows for a specific app even if that were unnecessary.
Unfortunately I saw a fair few quite negative reactions in the linked thread and I expect we'll see others here. Carmack has not ruled out a port for sure. But even if he does, that's not exactly evil or a betrayal of open source or anything else negative. Many gamers here will have benefited in some way from the GPLed code he's released to the OSS community in the past at some point, pretty much all gamers will have benefited from his position as a developer pushing the games industry forwards. He's not done anything *bad* here, he's just not necessarily doing something we'd hoped for.
Hopefully the Rage code will - one day - be GPLed and get ported to Linux. I think that's a fair way down the road at this point, though.
Re:Binary blob ... eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Carmack stated at Quakecon that Betheseda has to sign off on the GPL'ing of any future code. The chances of that happening are slim to none. IdTech5 is a pretty impressive piece of technology; from what I can tell it's Fallout 3 graphics maxed out with about 50% less overhead.
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No, not Bethesda. They're owned by ZeniMax, who also owns Bethesda. It's ZeniMax that has to sign off on it.
id Tech 5 is impressive right now, but so was Quake 3 back in the day. I wouldn't rule out id Tech 5 being open sourced when their next big game is about to be released on id Tech 7.
Impressive? Really...? (Score:3, Interesting)
From what I've seen, they have basically worked the game so down to the nuts and bolts as to make it fit into a three year old console. For starters, how about dynamic weather? None? Shame. Carmack is loosing sight of what made games great to buy and own on a PC, that you could enable advanced new graphics techniques on the PC with the latest graphics cards that were not available to the main stream. Even FarCry2, now a year old, has dynamic weather, and good weather too! I've played Crysis and FarCry
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No, I'm talking about something like this [youtube.com]. Note how in the walls in the Manhattan Apartment demo take on the color of the colored carpet when the light is shining on it.
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Carmack also stated at Quakecon that he now has a pretty good business case for doing so. With the success of Wolfenstien 3D Classic on the iPhone, which uses an OpenGL port of Wolfenstien 3D, there is now a real business case where a contribution to the open source community can pay dividends in the future.
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However, it would be *nicer* not to have to reboot into Windows for a specific app even if that were unnecessary.
There's also the fact that I'm likely to keep my Linux OS cleaner than Windows, that my Windows is 32-bit while my Linux is 64-bit, and I keep things like wireless keys and VPN access on Linux.
He's not done anything *bad* here, he's just not necessarily doing something we'd hoped for.
That, I'll agree with. In the past, the fact that he's stuck to OpenGL has made ports easier, and it's also forced vendors to keep OpenGL relevant.
I think his point about proprietary drivers... he's right and wrong. He's right in that the second biggest thing that sucks about my Linux desktop today is nVidia drivers.
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Carmack is right.
First, OpenGL is a mess. And OpenGL 3.0 is a complete failure, so it's no wonder Carmack doesn't want to port his code to use it. Also, in any case OpenGL 3 is implemented only by NVidia and ATI blobs.
And only NVidia currently produces decent drivers and hardware for Linux. ATI's drivers are quite unstable and unreliable. Intel's drivers are good, but their hardware is not.
OpenSource graphics drivers are coming, but they're a long way off. I expect that we won't see them for at least two mo
Re:Binary blob ... eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I appreciate Carmack's pragmatic reasoning instead of legal bullshit or calling us all pirates.
I have Windows and Linux available at home, so I don't really care. Yeah, it would be nice to not have to dual boot, but I see that as a necessary evil for the time being anyway, regardless of what games become available on Linux.
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I agree. If you're willing to use the proprietary drivers, just log back into win-does. If you're not willing to use the proprietary driver, then you probably aren't willing to use windows anyways, so ID isn't exactly losing your purchase.
Depends on why you use Linux. If it is some religious reason, you have a point. If it is because it is more stable, and just a better tool for the job, then you don't I just like to pick the best tool. For me that is Linux with the 180 nVidia blob drivers.
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Not worth the money. (Score:2)
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And it never will be until more companies start porting the engines/games to Linux. As one person tagged- it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Someone has to get the ball rolling.
Even if it is not a big money maker, there is something to be said for doing it anyway. Many of the game companies (especially ID) use and enjoy FOSS... it is a way of giving back by supporting it.
Fortunately, "porting" such games to Linux is usually not all that difficult for professional shops, since they tend to program very well
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How's Loki Games doing lately?
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It's not a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's fulfilled by the external factor that not enough Linux users are buying games. For it to be self-fulfilling would indicate circularity -- that Linux users aren't buying games because they aren't being put out. But that's not the case. They have been put out but are simply not selling large enough numbers to justify additional investment. Porting more games would simply make the debit side of the balance sheet worse. And that kind of investment can't be justifi
A Linux port attracts attention. (Score:4, Interesting)
Bring it on (Score:2)
I, for one, don't care if it needs to use the Nvidia binary driver, I still welcome it with open arms. And I am still waiting to open my wallet for a decent, Linux compatible, *SINGLE USER*, first-person shooter game. The last game I bought was Castle Wolfenstien for Linux and I loved it dearly (and it was worth every penny).
The fanboys come out early (Score:3, Insightful)
The Zenimax deal really has killed id software.
This news needs to be blogged and passed around like wildfire. id software is dead, long live id software!
Yes, it is Zenimax that killed the linux port, not any of the reason that he lists or anything...
quote from TFL (Score:2)
Hand has been forced by the fact that NVi
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No. He's referring to the (native) proprietary Nvidia drivers and the (native) proprietary ATI drivers.
Good analogy. (Score:3, Insightful)
Cars still work, and are still fun, and can still be innovative, despite all of them using the exact same UI, even when the steering column is no longer necessarily directly connected to anything, and the car could've been driven as easily with a joystick.
The same could be said of first person shooters. The gameplay mechanic may not change much, but the games can be very different experiences, and they are still fun. Indeed, many of us still have fun with the occasional Doom 1 game, so if Doom 4 ends up pla
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Ah, fanboys. nVidia's didn't "rewrite a large chunk of Xwindow [sic]". The driver just bypasses the OpenGL direct rendering stack. OpenGL requests still go to from userland to the kernel just as they would under DRM, but under the control of the nVidia driver and not the generic rendering pipeline. nVidia's reason for doing that has nothing to do with performance, but rather with using a common codebase for their Windows and Linux drivers.
Furthermore, "overcloking" [sic] is not "necessary" in any way for pl
Re:Linux and games still don't mix. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nvidia didn't just write a regualr binary driver, they had to rewrite a large chunk of Xwindow and package the resulting mess in a large drop-in binary blob, unstable and heavily dependant on the kernel version.
This part you got backwards. Because they did a pretty clear cut that depends little on kernel versions, they've constantly been much faster at supporting the latest kernels than AMD, like for example kernel 2.6.29 was released in March and supported only by Catalyst in the August release from a few days ago.
(...) windows (non)emulation can not keep up with Microsofts technical progress on directx. So many recent AAA games in every genre are listed as 'bronze' or 'garbage'.
Yes, they are. However, very few of these are related to the Direct3D part of WINE and if they are they're usually solved by installing the d3d dlls. However closed source is very prone to crashing if anything else isn't as it should, particularly Microsoft's Live services have been a big problem. Games that actually get past that like World In Conflict have quite decent performance on par with Windows, same with King's Bounty that's a fairly 3D intensive non-FPS.
The PC gaming market is small enough to justify p[orting to a platform that is a tiny fraction (about 1%) of users.
Yep, this is what it is about. Not just Linux users, but the intersection between those Linux users interested in a high-end FPS having the hardware and willingness to pay with the market that isn't already getting it somewhere on Windows. Don't get me wrong, I get what's native when I can, what's running in WINE when it works, but there's no competing with a Wintendo box...
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Wait, you want it to take 5 minutes to boot from your normal OS to the game and then 5 minutes to switch back?