Dell Says High Linux Netbook Returns a "Non-Issue" 324
Michiel Roos notes that at this week's OpenSource World, a Dell executive deflated Microsoft's claims that Linux notebooks have return rates four or five times higher than Windows machines. "Todd Finch, Dell senior product marketing manager, said the number of Linux returns are approximately the same as those for Windows netbooks. He categorized the matter of returns as a 'non-issue.' 'They are making something of nothing,' he said of Microsoft's claims."
IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Interesting)
So maybe only open source users know about IdeaStorm? Regardless, Dell is staring down hundreds of thousands of users looking for more options that should honestly be very easy to provide. So if the returns are a "non-issue" and are similar to Windows returns then what's the deal, Dell?
Re:IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about the people who are actually passionate about computer related stuff: You've got the Linux and/or FOSS guys, the hardcore gamers, the Mac-heads, some true Microsofties, and that's about it. Almost everybody else uses them, and wants them to work; but isn't going to spend their leisure time posting on some Dell messageboard about it.
Of those groups, the hardcore gamers and the Mac-heads wouldn't give Dell the time of day if they were on fire(in aggregate, obviously there are gamers with Dells; and the Mini-9 hackintosh crew; but the more passionately you are a member of those groups, the less likely you are to be running a Dell), while the Microsofties can already get all the MS software they want from Dell, so they have no reason to complain. Linux/FOSS enthusiasts are pretty much the only ones I'd expect to show up.
Typical. (Score:4, Insightful)
Being grabbed and screaming to the cold reality that many people out there hate to be constrained to Windows.
People keep trying to explain what has become now pretty obvious: Linux is mainstream.
It is high time companies and people interested in computing wake up to this simple reality.
Dell UK. () (Score:5, Interesting)
It isn't representative of Dell UK, I can tell you much. End of last year, I bought the wife a new laptop. She's a fan of Ubuntu, so I got her a Dell Inspiron with Ubuntu preloaed. She loves it - never been the least bit bother.
A month ago, my old laptop finally gave up the ghost, and I thought (seeing as how the Missus' machine was so reliable) that a Dell machine might be the way to go.
So I go to Dell's UK website, only to find that the only Ubuntu option they now offer is a minimum spec netbook - and that I suspect only because Michael Dell threatened to remove their testicles if they didn't offer something.
I suppose ... if I'd wanted to phone them up, and if I'd been willing to spend the time arguing, I could probably have got my preloaded Ubuntu system.
Instead, I thought "sod it" and order an Acer instead.
I do wonder if Dell are aware of they shenanigans going on at their UK subsidiary sometimes. Operating system evangelism is all very well, but this is costing them sales, you know?
Re:Dell UK. () (Score:4, Insightful)
If you are a major computer distributor, you have more than enough clout to demand the company who supplies your sound chips give you Linux drivers. Saying Dell can't do that is bullshit.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The OpenOffice recommendation has more than 100,000 upvotes. Why would 100,000 people who don't care show up on Dell's webpage to click on that arrow?
Because we all know that online ballots are never stuffed and each vote is always from a unique person...
That is easy to deal with. (Score:2)
This has been a non issue for a while for companies with enough know how...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
100,000 registered folks seems compelling to me, and most anyone listening, Dell. I tried to click the up arrow, but user-registration is required first.
Still, I think M$ forces Dell's & Asus' (etc.) hand by hidden fees & bulk-discounts related to the M$ tax.
Re:IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Informative)
You say that, but did you look at the numbers on that page? The OpenOffice recommendation has more than 100,000 upvotes. Why would 100,000 people who don't care show up on Dell's webpage to click on that arrow?
Before your misinformation gets too far, a little clarification, Dell's IdeaStorm increments by 10 for each vote, meaning it has received 10,000 upvotes, not 100,000.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell is staring down hundreds of thousands of users looking for more options that should honestly be very easy to provide.
I can tell you from personal experience, none of those things are 'easy.' Yes, some of them are very easy for you and I. But we're talking about a huge unwieldy corporate machine where every good intention/new idea from the bottom of the org chart is unwelcome and punished.
FYI, for most people at any sufficiently large organization, the customer is at the very bottom of the org chart.
If the CEO drove these changes without endless, mind-numbing discussion and rooms full of people notifying her of the 'dangers' it would be a different story. But that's just not how it works at that level.
Coreboot would be at the very top of my list. From there, the user is free-er to do what they please with the computer. Words cannot describe how important that project is to the future of computing. Please, go help coreboot out.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:IdeaStorm's Top Ideas (Score:5, Funny)
you did not put the rest on the list...
They get wierd after #15...
16. Sell it with a free pony.
17. Can I get mine in plaid?
18. I want fur everywhere on it.
19. Get rid of the keyboard and put a mouse in the middle.
20. PONIES!!!!!!!
21. Stop making them so confusing, What it is with having the whole alphabet on the keyboard.
22. Send it via Email instead of FedEx.
23. Make it waterproof, I'm on my third one because of spills.
Summary (Score:5, Informative)
Essentially most of the initial high return rate was due to unclear advertising leading people to believe they were buying a window machine and getting linux. Dell has cleared up the advertising to make sure people know what they are buying and the high return rate has stopped.
Re:Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The rates of sales are not relevant in that Microsoft is a monopoly, one convicted of criminal predatory practices, which forced hardware manufacturers into illegal contracts to exclude. That gave them the monopoly, and in case you don't know what a monopoly is and how hard it is to compete with a monopoly you might want to check up on that.
The only relevant statistic that I can see is one that tracks the rate of behavioral change as it relates to buying an alternative. Not in the number of sales but in t
Re: (Score:2)
one convicted of criminal predatory practices
If they were convicted of criminal predatory practices who exactly went to jail?
Re:Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
In what way were the corporate convictions against MS "so-called"? They were, I assure you, quite real. Remember that a corporation can be convicted of a crime and no one go to jail. However fines are a very real sanction against a criminal corporation.
A political stunt no, not even close. MS was convicted of illegal restraint of trade and mis-use of a monopoly. Don't believe me look it up. I may not have the exact statutes that they violated but violate them they did. There is nothing "so-called" about them.
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft Bob. He had it coming...
Playing with words (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft's Turner said that Linux netbooks are being returned at a rate 4 to 5 times higher than Windows netbooks. Dell hasn't disputed this fact at all. Linux netbooks *are* being returned at a very high rate, and Dell's Finch says so right in the article:
The difference is that people are returning the Windows netbooks because of technical reasons (broken hardware) and Linux netbooks because they don't want Linux.
That's a win for Microsoft, no matter how you spin it.
Re:Playing with words (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you are missing the point. Dell says they are not receiving returns except at the same rate. He means that linux netbooks are being returned at the same rate as windows netbook returns. Now, Dell is the company that sells and accepts the returns. Microsoft has nothing to do with it. Microsoft has no first hand knowledge. Since they can't count Linux returns, as it has nothing to do with Windows returns, Microsoft would be clueless except maybe by receiving information from Microsoft funded reports.
Bottom line is that Dell is giving facts whereas Microsoft is giving conjecture.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
you are majorly missing the point.
It's a bunch of people that are ordering a Duck dinner at a resturant and returning it because it has duck in it.
The returns are from people too dumb to read what they are ordering, clicking blindly and then sending it back because they did not pay attention.
I bet a large number of them say "Oh, I though when it said it runs linux it means some new game on the internet...."
This is the way of the consumer, People that wanted linux and ordered linux are happy with their linux
Re:Playing with words (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
So technically the article says return rate. Earlier the (very short) FA talked about the number of returns being the same but I believe that the explicit mention of rate clears up any possible ambiguity. A marketing manager might easily use the word number when he meant numbers or rate but his use of return rate seems completely unambiguous.
Re:Playing with words (Score:5, Insightful)
Which exact part of
we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux
is it that you have difficulty reading. What he's saying is that Windows machines return at the approximately same rate for technical problems as Linux machines return due to both technical problems and misunderstandings. This implies that if they can improve their communication then the return rate of Linux machines will be significantly lower than the return rate for Windows machines. To be honest I have difficulty working out why. Surely the hardware should be pretty much the same? Is it possible that the rate of malware infection at the beginning of a modern, up to date, Windows system's life is really high enough to account for the extra Windows returns?
Re: (Score:3)
I think it would behoove you to read more than the first few paragraphs of an article before spouting off.
Did you miss this bit?
So no, he is not talking absolute returns. He is talking return rates. Perhaps this is a case of unclear reporting, but it is not so clear-cut as you pretend.
Mart
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
It doesn't mean what Dell or Microsoft wants it to mean.
High initial returns on Linux netbooks is most likely due to inaccurate advertising. The market for Linux netbooks is primarily for people who already know what Linux is and desire it. Selling Linux netbooks to people seeking Windows isn't a good business plan. Dell thought it would be profitable and it wasn't.
It doesn't mean Linux sucks either, just that people prefer to stick with Windows because it's familiar-and we already knew that.
Re:Playing with words (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Playing with words (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a win for Microsoft, no matter how you spin it.
Well, maybe. The open source ecosystem has long since become large enough to be self-sustaining, so it's questionable how much it matters that Microsoft still has a majority of the market share. If MS went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be a minor win for Linux but mostly a huge win for Apple, and Apple's behavior as a company suggests strongly that they would be no less unpleasant as a near-monopoly than Microsoft currently is.
The important thing to me is that I have multiple free (in both senses) alternatives to MS and that those are not likely to go away in the foreseeable future. Would I like to buy a laptop without the Microsoft tax. Sure, but then, I pretty much already can, since I usually buy year-old off-lease corporate laptops at a steep discount -- being neither a hardcore gamer nor a videographer, most machines have been more than fast enough for everything else for several years now.
If the whole Free/Open Source Software movement was a battle for our freedom, we already won, and won decisively. The battle against Microsoft's very existence? Who cares? Odds are, Microsoft will be around for a long time to come, and waiting for it to die is like waiting for Apple or one of the *BSDs or any other stable niche offering to die: time better spent having actual fun and getting real work done.
Besides, it's not like Dell's products or their customer support are very good to begin with. When I can buy generic, standard laptop parts to build my own laptop as well as I can build my own desktop boxes, then I'll get excited. Until then, the token gestures of companies selling proprietary, closed hardware are really nothing to become overly concerned about.
Driver issues? (Score:2)
The difference is that people are returning the Windows netbooks because of technical reasons (broken hardware) and Linux netbooks because they don't want Linux.
I don't know if it applies to the Netbooks, but from experience I found that Dell would put Linux on a computer, neglecting to ensure all the hardware in the device has associated drivers. If Dell still hasn't fixed this issue, then this is a Dell issue and not a Linux issue.
What would be more enlightening, is why the computers are getting returned.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft's Turner said that Linux netbooks are being returned at a rate 4 to 5 times higher than Windows netbooks. Dell hasn't disputed this fact at all. Linux netbooks *are* being returned at a very high rate, and Dell's Finch says so right in the article:
The difference is that people are returning the Windows netbooks because of technical reasons (broken hardware) and Linux netbooks because they don't want Linux.
That's a win for Microsoft, no matter how you spin it.
From TFA: "we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux." So, yes Dell has disputed Microsoft's assertion. A return rate 4 to 5 times higher would be a significant difference.
So, it is not a win for Microsoft, no matter how you spin it.
Re: (Score:2)
No, its ignorant users not checking the specs before they click "order" is all. They find the cheapest machine on Dell.com and buy it without care, and when that machine arrives and doesn't run Windows, they send it back, and pay a restocking fee.
Many of these people also return their cheap windows boxes when they find out it can't run the games even their old computer could, but unfortunately most of them find out too late, as they'll have had the machine more than 14 days before they get too far into usi
Here's another fact. (Score:5, Insightful)
That fact that a multi-billion dollar corporation is making up lies about free software on a daily basis is just another sign of true weakness.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I would not mark the parent as flamebait because he's essentially telling the truth.
Re: (Score:2)
And if I send you $1 million Monopoly dollars, I've essentially given you $1 million dollars. I still prefer my dollars (and truth) to be real, not "essentially" real.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe you misunderstood the GP's point about a "multi-billion dollar corporation" to mean Dell, rather than Microsoft.
Not Surprised.. (Score:5, Informative)
ASUS said the same thing about the EeePC return rates [laptopmag.com].
As far as I can tell, the "higher return rates" source is MSI, who shipped a borked distro. Everyone else seems to be doing swimmingly.
What Asus did wrong with the EEE (Score:3, Informative)
Everything worked okay, except the OS it shipped with had serious security holes. Especially with the ancient version of Samba. Last time I checked, they were never fixed. perimetergrid.com - asus eee pc and linux vmsplice vulnerabilities [perimetergrid.com].
Also the restore disk was a CD (The EEE doesn't have a CD drive), and it was MS Windows only (so you had to have a windows machine to use it). So if I did need to reinstall the OS my netbook came with for some reason, I would need not only a separate computer, but it has
Not surprised (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, if only this would rub off on the rest of the business sectors. I'd love to buy a new Studio 15 laptop with the option for Ubuntu. It'd save me 45 minutes formatting, reinstalling Ubuntu and reconfiguring the system the way I like. But unfortunately their selection for machines with Ubuntu only includes the crap Inspiron line (the Ford Fiesta of laptops).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
People aren't returning these machines more because they have Ubuntu, they're buying them more because they have Ubuntu.
That's a nice sounding way to spin it. But in TFA it actually says they were buying them because they were cheaper, not because they had Ubuntu.
Normal people don't know what Ubuntu is. They don't know what Windows is. They just want cheap computers and assume that they all have that familiar OS.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd love to buy a new Studio 15 laptop with the option for Ubuntu. It'd save me 45 minutes formatting, reinstalling Ubuntu and reconfiguring the system the way I like.
45 minutes??? It took me 4 hours to get my Studio 17 to work flawlessly with linux. The damned WLan and Wireless cards had to be swapped out for standard ones instead of the crap that Dell put's in there. I had to surf ebay for 1 hour alone to fund good quality Intel Cards to buy to replace the dell brand garbage that is a windows only car
Re: (Score:2)
Troll? or data... you decide. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Troll? or data... you decide. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Troll? or data... you decide. (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you for your question. Unfortunately, your question was not sleek, white, and shiny, so we are unable to process your request.
Kisses,
Apple Customer Service
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I used to think of it as "Returned because my pirated copy of Office doesn't work."
Same Number or Same percentage? (Score:3, Funny)
Also, given that this was a Dell rep at an Open Source show, he wasn't exactly going to go "yeah, Linux hasn't really been working for us, it sucks, we'll be switching to Windows".
Re: (Score:2)
Your argument is strawman. It has no point. It's meant just to get people to chase a feather in the wind.
One would not have to question say the return rates of a Ferrari to that of a Ford Taurus.
In other words, we all know what it means when they say return rates.
Re: (Score:2)
So they creatively interpreted the numbers? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh noes, how could they!
This will put a serious dent in their excellent credibility track record..
But do I believe this (maybe)? (Score:2)
Andy
Yet again the same old tired canard. (Score:2)
That is what capitalism is all about.
Why insist on this same point every time Linux makes some progress?
Microsoft is fighting back (Score:4, Interesting)
if anyone hasn't noticed, Apple and Microsoft have been playing very nice together since last year.
Apple has licensed ActiveSync for the iphone and MobileMe
there is Exchange 2007 integration into Snow Leopard
New MS Office for the Mac will have an Outlook client for the first time with full Exchange integration
I think MS is playing nice with Apple to get back at Dell and HP for the netbook linux thing. If HP and Dell want to ship linux PC's, then MS is going to help Apple poach Dell's most profitable customers
Re:Microsoft is fighting back (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
and Apple seems to not want to compete in the desktop space. macbook pro's and imacs are made of the same internal parts and Apple seems content selling the same PC at ridiculous mark ups to it's niche market. the way everything is integrated on the motherboard today and the fact that it's very easy to build a consumer level hackintosh it shouldn't be a big deal for Apple to sell a desktop system that's cheaper than the imac's laptop internals.
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Re: (Score:2)
How does doing that help Microsoft in any way? So they can laugh at Dell when they both end up like GM? Microsoft is seeing reductions in sales hand over fist [betanews.com] in all divisions and is trying to increase their profit margin and maintain their monopoly any way they can. If that means licensing their stuff
Re: (Score:2)
Dell Doesn't Push Linux Though (Score:2)
While this may be a non-issue in terms of returns... I still find it extremely difficult to actually "find" Linux machines on the Dell.com site.
Re: (Score:2)
Surprised? (Score:3, Insightful)
And here we see Microsoft making messy and untenable assertions to the detriment of its ostensibly valuable business partners. My charitable side is prone to thinking that these moves are just oblivious on Microsoft's part, but the side that's been reading Slashdot for a decade suggests that they still think they're too big to be affected by their own irked customers... and it's happy to see that notion countered more and more these days. Next slide.
News flash! (Score:2)
Return rates for a new, less familiar product are higher than those for an older product which customers had 15 years to evaluate and decide if they want. This doesn't mean the new product is bad. On the contrary, people who are returning it - and those who are not - bought it because they were not completely satisfied with the old product (on price or other reasons) and wanted to evaluate other solutions.
It does not matter (Score:2)
You know why? Because for most folks, perception *is* reality. Once Microsoft succeeds in "planting" the notion that netbooks based on Linux are somewhat inferior, only the geeks will buy them.
This works for Microsoft. What we should do, is to focus our efforts on make Linix and OSS technologies relevant to the average human being.
What is going on now with MS Office coming to Nokia's hardware is a case in point. It does not work for OSS in general.
Firefox, OpenOffice.org and multimedia on Linux continue to
Re: (Score:2)
Firefox, OpenOffice.org and multimedia on Linux continue to suck big time. Lets work on these so that if one takes the Linux plunge, that person gets pleasantly surprised.
Well... that is your PERCEPTION of Firefox, OOo and Linux Multimedia, isn't it. Actually I think Firefox on Linux works great, multimedia is pretty good (though Balkanized across several programs, and that OOo is perfect for the "office" tasks I have to do. I also have to say that Ubuntu is the only distribution of any OS (Windows and MacOS included in this statement) that has impressed me with EVERY new version I install. A lot of the perception is just simply because a lot of people haven't used it. P
Re:It does not matter (Score:4, Insightful)
> Firefox, OpenOffice.org and multimedia on Linux continue to suck big time.
No they don't. You're just trying to add to the mindless anti-Linux hysteria.
All of these are quite suitable for the average user and in many cases FAR
SUPERIOR to the default Lemming option. Linux multimedia software in
particular is used to bail out both Windows and MacOS from usability and
functionality issues.
Time to find a new FUD talking point. "Linux multi-media" is over in this respect.
Re:It does not matter (Score:5, Informative)
What we should do, is to focus our efforts on make Linix and OSS technologies relevant to the average human being....Lets work on these so that if one takes the Linux plunge, that person gets pleasantly surprised.
Have you looked at one of the Dell netbooks with Linux on it? We bought two Mini-9's for testing where I work; I got one, and one of the other network admins got the other. The things are awesome, except for a couple of minor gripes:
1) A couple of tools that I expected (sshd, slocate, rsync) aren't available on the install or the on-line package repository, since it's a slightly lobotomized Dell-specific version of Ubuntu that's installed on the Mini-9;
2) The software update site that Synaptic syncs from worked for about a month, then stopped working (I haven't bothered to call Dell to ask what happened, but I probably should so I can keep the OS updated);
3) It occasionally will not resume after suspending.
Item one problem won't matter to most users; just network geeks like myself. Item two is probably the biggest problem, but like I said, I haven't tried to contact Dell to see why synaptic/apt-get update/etc. can no longer connect to the update server. Item three also happens on my wife's Vista laptop, so doesn't seem to be a differentiating characteristic of Linux over Windows.
On the other hand, the wireless (typically a weakness for Linux distros in my experience) is rock solid, quickly and easily connecting to wireless networks with no fuss and no hassle...very much unlike the wireless on my wife's Vista laptop, which frequently can't find wireless networks, won't stay connected in cases where it does, and/or provides mind-numbingly slow transfer rates when it can connect. Setting up network printers is again far easier and more reliable than the printer setup on my wife's Vista laptop, which has to be reconfigured every single time she reboots. As far as multimedia...I can play DVDs on my Mini-9, I can watch YouTube videos. As far as Firefox and Open Office...on Linux "suck[ing] big time", well...FF may be somewhat slower to run JavaScript and OOo may not have *all* the features or be as pretty as MS Office, but I'll take standards-compliant FF over IE and free OOo with all its faults over MS' $500 price tag and freaking annoying "ribbon" interface any day.
In other words, I think the FOSS/Linux community has done a great deal to make Linux and OSS technologies relevant to the average human being. I see FOSS/Linux as pretty good already and getting even better, but YMMV.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I found upgrading the Dell Mini 9 to Ubuntu 9.04 Netbook Remix [ubuntu.com] cleared up #3, and probably fixes 1 & 2, too.
(Granted, 9.04 Netbook Remix has a different alternative desktop than the one that comes with the Dell version of 8.04.)
No, they don't suck. (Score:4, Informative)
To say that Firefox sucks is frankly pure spite.
Many of us are using OpenOffice and exchange files with MS only shops without any issues.
Audio support in Linux is quite good for most people. Amarok and Audacity cover most bases.
Video support is patchy, but each release of every video product gets better (there was a time WMV files were not supported, not you can play them out of the box).
Breaking News: MS thinks their OS ist the best! (Score:2)
Possibly the reason for thiese claims and why they are still way behind on technical merits compared to the competition...
They are making something of nothing (Score:2)
just think (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You're probably correct in pointing out that they make a choice. Whether they make an informed choice is another matter. I doubt there are many non-techies that truly make an informed choice about what OS they intend to use. I doubt that usage percentage has anything to do with what system is actually better and more to do with what they use at work or school or what their neighbor who is "good with computers" thinks.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, knowing how to use the damn thing is important. So is being able to get support and applications. Both of those trump some nebulous "better."
Re: (Score:2)
So is being able to get support and applications.
This argument AGAIN? This is the same one used against MacOS for 20 years now. There's plenty of support and aps, just not at Wal-Mart.
Re: (Score:2)
You just said 'I doubt that usage percentage has anything to do with what system is actually better and more to do with what they use at work or school or what their neighbor who is "good with computers" thinks.'
Sounds like you just said they go with Windows because they know how to use it and can get support. I threw in applications because they are more fun to use than an OS.
20 years, eh? Given 20 years of "better," I'd expect everything I own to be running MacOS, but alas, it's Windows for desktops, Li
Re: (Score:2)
Here we get back to the classic fear mongering tactics.
Whip up the frenzy of fear in the n00bs that there is some
slim chance that sometime in the future that they might be
marginalized for not using what "everyone else uses".
This kept people away from the Mac and the other GUI based
systems when you had to do manual memory management under DOS.
Even Slackware 96 was easy compared to that.
Re: (Score:2)
Fear mongering? Are you claiming that people don't like to use things that are familiar to them, or that claiming that they do IS fear mongering?
Also, I don't know what DOS or Slackware has to do with anything. For the record, getting Slackware from 1996 switched over to glibc was significantly harder than building a config.sys and autoexec.bat pair for any given app.
Re: (Score:2)
There is also the possibility that people make a choice based on fear mongering
or the perception that they don't really have any other option. The DOS platform
has long sold itself on the fact that it is the most widely used and is effectively
"compatable" with anything.
The fear that there is some remote chance that they might be marginalized by not being
a part of the Microsoft hegemony is a considerable fear factor. Often the choice to use
or stay with Microsoft products is essentially coerced.
This even keeps
Todd, this isn't good for your career (Score:2)
Kudos to Todd for laying what may be the truth out there.
If Todd's march to the top of the cubicle farm dung heap doesn't end over this one, then Dell gets my next notebook order.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow, you really respond well to marketing.
Dell has dropped most Linux models (Score:2)
It's really hard to get a Dell netbook delivered with Linux. At the moment, the Latitude 2100 [dell.com] is one of the very few machines to come with Linux. It's $30 cheaper than with a Microsoft OS. Dell's search page has a "FreeDOS and Linux" option, and if you check that, you get "No configurations are valid for the selected options." There's a Linux option for the Mini 10v [dell.com], but the Windows versions has an "instant discount" to bring its price down to match the Linux version. (Also, the Windows version comes wit
Re:Dell has dropped most Linux models (Score:5, Informative)
You [dell.com] are [system76.com] not [linuxcertified.com] looking [hp.com] hard [thelinuxlaptop.com] enough [mcelrath.org]. Please check at least the last link.
Just a thought... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Informative)
XP gets returned becasue it's too slow (Score:5, Insightful)
--dave
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
It was rejected by slashcode.
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:4, Funny)
+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
| |
| |
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Funny)
The people who return Linux netbooks do so because they can't find the big blue "e" on the desktop. To hell with them, I say.
Linux is fucking king now. Linux shits all over the chests and faces of the MS-loving ignorami and fucks their wives and sisters. The strong survive and run or migrate to Linux, the weak do not live on because they are cuckolded by Linux users.
We, the Linux users, are fucking king...no, GODS. We are the gods who demand sacrifice! Ha. Ha ha. HahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!
-- Ethanol-fueled
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Funny)
Me thinks he's been nipping at the ethanol a bit too much and it's not even noon.
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Funny)
Problem is he was not drinking ethanol.. Methanol.. He's gone raving mad....
Dang it, now he's drinking the salt water from the reef tank in the lobby. STOP THAT! I gotta go and try and catch him before the boss get's back.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So is that like a uh... Cleaveland Steamer [wikipedia.org]?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So is that like a uh... Cleaveland Steamer [wikipedia.org]?
I believe we're calling this one the "Redmond Steamer."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Informative)
You're absolutely right about customers having to seek it out. Heck right there in the article they basically say that when they subtract the people who are returning the netbooks because it isn't windows, then the returns are a non-issue.
Which is why I think it's such a shame that you go on to invalidate your otherwise perfectly reasonable point by perpetuating a worn-out, well-debunked meme.
At my local supercenter I wrote down brands and looked them up and was looking at barely 20% "supported", if you call doing a CLI voodoo dance for hours and barely getting half functionality support.
Since you don't bother to state what kind of devices you're talking about, I'll simply relate my experience. My mother's a 57-year-old computer illiterate. I put ubuntu on a machine for her to try out. Once in a while (maybe twice a year) she has to call me to ask what program she needs to do X. Her multi-function printer: worked out of the box, including scanning. Her ipod: worked out of the box. Her $5.00 keychain digital pictureframe: worked out of the plasticwrap. Her DSLR? works out of the box. Her HD video recorder: works out of the box. I haven't seen one single device touch her computer that failed to function on the first try, without her ever doing any "cli voodoo dance". She never does any research about whether stuff works with linux, she just goes and buys stuff and uses it. And she's getting a nice supply of new coasters from all the worthless driver discs that come with these products, that I've comfortably told her she can just ignore from here on out.
Re:in your face microsoft! (Score:5, Informative)
Heh... As an exercise, I conducted a little experiment. I wanted to see if your claims were at all true...
First click: A search for "netbook" on dell's main page [dell.com]
Second click: The netbook product lineup main page [dell.com]
Third click: "Choose your mini" [dell.com]. At which point you're offered a choice between a blue one or a red one (A 10v or a 10) which lists Linux or Windows XP as the OS.
At which point you're into purchasing. Now... Oddly enough, there was only one choice which was clearly marked "Customize With Ubuntu"- but it's one of the ones you'd really, really want, whether you're doing Ubuntu or XP, unless you're unable to afford the extra $20-50 for the stock config on the price. Seriously.
As an observation, neither "Linux" nor "Ubuntu" was plugged into looking for this ephemeral "buried" netbook you're claiming- just "netbook".
Four.
Clicks.
And it was the same number if you were looking for a Linux preinstall or an XP one.
Sorry, you're neither correct nor insightful- and I wish the people that'd modded you up had bothered to do the same little experiment I did and didn't give you the time of day, any more than the discussion threads over at Linux Today gave you an inch on this stuff you're coming up with. Which, I might add, is verbatim what you posted over here.
Re: (Score:2)
Shrug, I use it to learn about Windows security shit I should be aware of. Those are usually the only timely stories that make it here anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Why... this obvious lie:
"Linux has problems but Windows doesn't"
People like to pretend that Windows is this perfect little MacOS clone when it's really anything but.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Did he actually say that? I make my living off the problems that Windows has.
Computers aren't just a tool. (Score:3, Informative)
The underlying political and economical issues at play are widely explained by proponents of the FOSS movement.
What is at play is the access to your own frigging data.
If you don't understand why this transcends the purely utilitarian nature of a computer and its software, then I can't help you....