Ubuntu Linux Validates As Genuine Windows 401
bobbocanfly writes "Another crack in the Windows Genuine Advantage wall. A user at UbuntuForums.org managed to validate an Ubuntu installation as a genuine copy of Microsoft Windows and get to the download page of Windows Defender, using IE4Linux and Wine. (Here is an OGG video of the process.) Along with the advancement of LiveCD technology, this could spell the end of Microsoft's control over who gets their updates."
Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Next up: "Please enter your credit card number" - Windows Update.
I hope so (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope so-Fruit juice. (Score:3, Funny)
Or Apple. Which makes ME smile even more.
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But, for someone that isn't entrenched in hardware, I can see the option.
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Or Apple. Which makes ME smile even more.
But should't Apple be most Linux fans' nightmare?
1) Proprietary system that is only in small part, OSS
2) Standard PC hardware with fancy plastic that is much more overpriced than the same hardware minus fancy plastic
3) A OS that is more expensive over it's life that even Winblows - and Apple CURRENTLY charges serious coin for major OS updates
4) A secure coding and patch release methodology that is *years* behind MS
5) Apple regularly lies about the performance capabilities of its' machines
6) Apple u
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the benefits of mated os and hardware yields quite a bit over any proprietary issues, especially when looking at keeping the os inter-operable. we are talking about an company that since macos you can easily tool your own script to interact with any textfield for example for spell check or whatnot. that's the type of int
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Once MS is gone and everyone is using Mac, THEN we can get people to come to Linux.
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Once MS is gone and everyone is using Mac, THEN we can get people to come to Linux.
HA! That's funny as hell, good show, chap. And as the parent poster, I must admit I'm saying this on a Dell 9100 XP Pro getting ready to buy *drool* one of the new Macbook Pro's, and I run Solaris for my servers. *sigh* All u*x desktops, other than Apple, look way to clunky to me. I love love Linux more ..... But how many of you leave the wives that you love to sleep with some slut? *sigh*
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Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I really like Gnome, and Apple's UI irritates me, because it gets in the way of the way I like to work. But I guess that's all part and parcel of the way Apple insists that you "think outside the box the way WE tell you to, dammit!".
Having said that, I like the way Apple integrates nicely
Re:I hope so-Fruit juice. (Score:5, Insightful)
"2) Standard PC hardware with fancy plastic that is much more overpriced than the same hardware minus fancy plastic" You're going by old info. You can configure a Dell and an Apple with the same specs and the prices are quite close.
"3) A OS that is more expensive over it's life that even Winblows - and Apple CURRENTLY charges serious coin for major OS updates" $129 is serious coin? And remember, this is for the MAJOR updates. Also, they're lax on the DRM, since you usually have to have the hardware to run the OS.
"4) A secure coding and patch release methodology that is *years* behind MS" Patch and release when it's found, not once a month?
"5) Apple regularly lies about the performance capabilities of its' machines" For example? I'd love to see some examples here.
"6) Apple uses Solaris and Windows (Apple china ran it until 03) because of their superior stability compared to OS X." Proof please.
All in all, you're arguing against the Apple that no longer exists.
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He said minus the fancy plastic. Try pricing it on pricewatch and building it yourself. Yes, most people wouldn't do that. No, that vast majority of linux users would build it themselves, hence the vast majority of people reading your reply would build it themselves, being
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not trying to sound like I LIKE Microsoft, or anything, but the migration from SP1 > SP2
1. Functional, simple firewall
2. Improved update system
3. Excellent wifi management app
Maybe that's it. But there was SOMETHING, huh?
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"agree with a lot of what you said, I just have to chip in that for someone working a minimum wage job (or even, in my case, a job that's significantly above minimum wage but still depressingly low), $129 *IS* a lot of money.... at the federal minimum wage, after tax, that could end up being almost a weeks pay, which is pretty painful for someone on a budget :("
In which case they have more pressing needs than an update to an iMac ... and they're better off with older, free hardware and a copy of linux or
To sum up - Microsoft just wants your money (Score:5, Funny)
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Should any OS be a Linux fan's nightmare? Why should we care? I recently switch to Mac OS X and I have no complaints... Oh maybe that is what you mean, an OS that is feature complete (joke. Well... a little joke... OK maybe it's too close to the truth..). I did switch when I bought my MacBook Pro and am currently happy with my choice.
My point is that I still use Linux for work and I do contribute to the OSS effort when my employer allows, and I don't think
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My vote is on Google!
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Rights matter. (Score:3, Insightful)
If your concern was control, then you were using the wrong OS from the start. Show me the version of a MS operating system that gave you more control than Vista, or that you were free to modify. If anything, UAC allows you to programatically control your system more so than ever before.
Anyhow, any person that believes the GPL should be respected (as I
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as respecting the EULA, I wonder if it's even a valid contract. As I understand it, most contracts require both parties agree to the terms BEFORE the transaction (purchasing the software) takes place.
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is it now necessary for my computer to stay up to date?
Why do you think that's ok?
Why?
--Jimmy
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Interesting)
"I guess they are saying your computer is as up to date as they are going to make it without WGA.
In essence, they terminated your support for updates and you renewed it by doing the WGA thing. And no, I am not saying it is right. But even if you purchase the full version, you only get so much free support. the rest is basically MS acting as if they are doing you a favor. I don't remember anything in the license or on the box about updates being provided.
They really don't have a choice - either FIX the defective OS via patches or face a class-action suit for selling a grolssly defective product. Don't kid yourself - the only person who benefits from Microsoft's actions is Microsoft. Limited warranties don't add to your rights, they take away from them. Most jurisdictions have laws that state that a purchase has to be useful for its intended purpose for a reasonable amount of time. 20 seconds between connecting to the net and getting p0wned is not "reasonable" - especially when there are free OS available that don't have these defects.
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have complete control of my computer in every way by virtue of the fact that I *own* it. Putting Microsoft software on that piece of hardware removes control from me of my own computer. I also have to give up the right to modify (disassemble, etc) Microsoft's code once it is on my computer. Compare that to GPL'd software which generally are of the purpose to enable and empower my freedom to use my own hardware.
So your statement is based on the fallacy that the MS EULA or TOS serves the same purpose as the GPL. It does not.
Re:Rights matter. (Score:4, Funny)
Which reminds me of this comic strip [tiraecol.net].
Re:Rights matter. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyhow, any person that believes the GPL should be respected (as I do) also needs to respect the TOS that MS sets forth.
Agreeing to the GPL gives you more rights than you would otherwise have had. Agreeing to the MS TOS gives you less rights than you would otherwise have had.
That's a fairly significant difference.
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Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
I've often wondered what would have happened if Windows had never been, if some other OS (say a Unix variant of some kind, or perhaps one of the other OSes that Microsoft eclipsed) had become dominant, one that was fundamentally more secure than Windows. We might never have seen the billions of dollars being lost to spam and armies of rooted Windows boxes. Anyway you look at it, Microsoft has much for which to atone, and doing what it can to keep Windows users from being pwned the minute they jack in their systems or try to read an email isn't asking for much.
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
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Personally, I believe that if Microsoft wants to continue to enjoy their current status as the leading provider of security-challenged applications and operating systems, they should be required to provide free updates. Either that, or Microsoft should have to reimburse everyone else for the bandwidth costs incurred by the hundreds of millions of infected Windows installations worldwide. For that matter, how about all the millions of man-hours lost because of instabilities in Microsoft's products. Heck, I'
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
On M$'s end, they're a business. If you don't give them money, why do you think they should be giving you free updates? You're not a customer, you're not going to be a customer, so it's only ever so slightly in their interest to keep you on the platform. Do you realistically think the third party software is going to disappear just because windows doesn't provide updates to people who don't pay?
On the pirate's end, who cares? When was the last update that was worth downloading?
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you seriously complaining because your illegal software doesn't function correctly?
Re:Yeah, damn Microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, yes we are... but we only complain about our illegal microsoft software not functioning correctly around slashdot. Any other illegal software not functioning is more or less ok
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and their desire that only their customers have access to their updates.
Since those updates are pointless for anybody not running windows it's all about maintaining their "Windows Disingenuous Disadvantage" deceptive marketing practices.
M$ reaps what it sows.
---
WGA. Guilty until proven innocent. For millions. Again and again.
Re:Ubuntu Meme (Score:4, Interesting)
feel free to berate me on not including the distro of your choice, (but add your own findings if you have any...
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http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+mandriva% 2C+fedora%2C+debian%2C+gentoo&ctab=0&geo=all&date= all&sort=0 [google.com]
Re:Ubuntu Meme (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.google.com/trends?q=dog%2C+cat&ctab=0&
This is more shocking, dogs and cats living together!! (but dogs still more popular)
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Just because people may search for a particular Linux distribution does not actually mean that this indicates something like the total number of installed platforms out there. Now that IMHO
Guess again... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Perhaps if MS would roll out new versions of its OS more often than once every 5 years this wouldn't be such a problem...
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1) Let's compare all costs.
On your basis, that's $450. What about Hidden costs? Anti-Virus, anti-spyware? How much did these cost? And no, when you compare costs the fact that Apple is or is not more secure doesn't matter, fact *IS* that an apple ca
And what would happen then? (Score:2)
And what would happen then?
It's already difficult to get Windows users to patch their systems. Which is ONE of the reasons why so many Windows machines are zombies.
Making it more difficult would only mean that FEWER people patched
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Excellent idea!
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Wanna bet? Watch a bad situation get worse; updates aren't optional considering the mess microsoft has created/ignored with their products in regards to security. If you really want to see a worm outbreak, watch the internet melt down when zillions of zombied windows boxes don't get updated because people didn't want to pay the 19.95/month subscription. It's bad enough now with most people *getting* the updates. I'm pretty sure there would b
"This could spell the end of Microsoft's control"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please. They'll update the security.
Will there eventually be another way around? Yes. Of course.
Next story please.
Re:"This could spell the end of Microsoft's contro (Score:5, Informative)
For one thing, WGA is supposed to check Product key, PC manufacturer, Windows version, PID/SID, BIOS information, BIOS MD5 Checksum, Language setting and version, and Hard drive serial number, among other things.
Since your winver and product key don't technically exist (I believe the former comes up as Win 98), I don't see how WGA gets a false positive in this case (which means it's also going to be an easy bug to track down).
But, theoretically, since xubuntu doesn't need a 'valid' key, it may throw random numbers out (which would be very unlikely to trip the 'pirated' check, but would mean WGA doesn't check if your key is valid.
Re:"This could spell the end of Microsoft's contro (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm guessing that WGA is set to return "genuine" if it is unable to retrieve the appropriate information. For example, it might try 5 times to get the product key, but the system always gives it an error since it doesn't actually have a product key. Since they can't get enough information to determine if you are genuine or not, they err on the side of caution and say you are genuine, even though they can't tell.
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Windows Developer: We tested Ubuntu with IE4Linux and we can catch it. It claims to be Win98 and it doesn't have the undocumented secret handshake to check for validity. And it hides the Bios too. If you look at the CS values Wine uses the same selector but you can't use that. But if you look at CS:Hardcoded_offset then all versions of Windows have some code that is not present in Wine. So we check for that.
Lawyer: Hmm. Could they change Wine so it passes
Window
Woah... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh wait...
Re:Woah... (Score:5, Funny)
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Dual boot machine? (Score:4, Interesting)
WGA has become pretty sophisticated this year, as recently has OGA. I strongly suspect that the observed behavior is by design, though Microsoft may now choose to change it.
Re:Dual boot machine? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would surprise me.
For most intents and purposes Wine sandboxes applications from the rest of the machine reasonably effectively. For the WGA software to be able to detect a copy of Windows elsewhere on the machine it would have to be checking it was running under wine then taking deliberate measures to break out of the sandbox. It's possible, since wine is not a VM, but quite unlikely - after all, the entire idea of WGA is that Microsoft wants people downloading updates to be using them on a genuine copy of Windows. If you have Windows on the machine already, why would you be dual booting into Linux and running wine to access Windows Update? That would make no sense, and Microsoft making that possible by design would make even less sense.
This is bad for linux (Score:5, Insightful)
If everyone who ran pirated software used open source instead, our user base would be several times as it is now. And that would encourage hardware vendors to give us better support, which is the main thing we need now.
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Kind of a chicken and egg, isn't it? While your comment makes sense, the support has to be there before the users will come.
As close as it is, It Just Has To Work(TM) isn't there.
Would they really? (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people I know who pirate Windows aren't anti-Microsoft or even violently cheap. Instead, such "crimes" are usually crimes of opportunity: someone at school or the office offers to let them borrow their Windows disk, or hands out cracked CDs because it amuses them. It's obviously cheaper, so of course they'll use the illegal disk. But if such a thing weren't available, most p
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Most people I know who pirate Windows and Windows software don't consider Linux as an interesting alternative because "Windows is free too and has free games". If Windows really cost $100 and Office really cost $300 and Photoshop really cost $400 then a lot of them would think that Ubuntu was the obvious choice - going for Windows + Software would double the cost of the computer. Hell, for that money most of them would figure out how to run their WoW and COD3 under Wine.
Uh, you can just use Windows 2000. (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, great (Score:2, Insightful)
I thought WGA... (Score:5, Insightful)
... was designed to find pirated versions of windows. Why would they care if a linux user can download the updates. He's not the target. It's the people and companies with fake copies and either don't know it or don't want to go through the trouble of downloading a version of each patch that the WGA step will get to buy Windows. So it probably worked to specs, and probably works via blacklisting rather than whitelisting (easier to disassemble a whitelist for one).
I know its bad form here to defend anything from M$, or announce that a story doesn't really mean their emminet death, but remember that WGA is just another step like serials designed to increase the geekiness or effort required for someone to pirate a copy.
Just like DRM. I mean, you can always use a professional quality camera to capture the movie, and put each output speaker in an anachoic chamber with its own high quality mike. The point of DRM and WGA is to make it hard enough that it's not worth saving the $10 (for bad movies) - $400 (for Vista Ultimate SuperDeluxe w. CoffeeMaker ) after all the effort.
Re:I thought WGA... (Score:5, Informative)
Please, for the love of god and all things holy, mod parent up!
I used to work at Microsoft. Posting anonymously for obvious reasons, so feel free to doubt what I'm about to tell you.
Parent is spot on. The purpose of WGA isn't to block all attempts to pirate Microsoft software. As we've seen with countless articles here on /., dedicated people will bypass WGA. People at Microsoft know this - come on!
WGA exists because unscrupulous PC manufacturers / PC builders will sell PCs with improperly licensed copies of Windows. i.e. they'll pay for one copy and install it on every computer they sell. Saves 'em what, something like $60 per computer? I forget the exact number of computers sold this way, but it's surprisingly high.
So the thought is: you (or your mom, or gramma) buy a PC from one of these guys, you find out that they sold you a computer with a bogus copy of Windows, and you no longer do business with them. And you tell your friends, and they don't do business with them.
As I said, feel free to think I'm lying to you. There are plenty of things to dig Microsoft about, but I'm afraid there's no delicious irony in an Ubuntu user validating their copy as Windows.
Re:I thought WGA... (Score:5, Insightful)
Other than that being able to validate as genuine windows doesn't mean anything. What's to stop these same manufacturers that MS is trying to stop from just using one of the many ways around WGA on each of the computers they sell or install at the office?
Honestly, I have my doubts that it's really that big of a problem. I can't imagine that happens much outside of mom and pop shops that aren't exactly selling thousands or even hundreds of new computers per day.
And the person who thought they legitimately paid for everything is stuck unable to get updates they may want and paid for unless they buy Windows again. Awesome.
While within their rights to do, it's stupid and only hurts the valid users in the end, which is really what most people's complaint is. Personally, I'm going to keep right on complaining about it.
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IIRC if a dupe turns in the PC maker, they get a free copy of Windows for their troubles, and maybe something else.
And this would be good because? (Score:4, Interesting)
We complain that there is a MS tax. We complain that they hardsell licences. I would be very happy is Microsoft really had a way to limit the updates. Hell, even with Linux one *pays* for the updates in some distros, and there is nothing wrong with that. Plus, if piracy beneficts Microsoft - and it does - putting an end to it is all the better. Windows is "cheap" because many people are used to cracking all the software they have installed and then complaining about "there isn't a program in Linux/BSD that does *everything* I need and exactly the way I need".
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Not likely (Score:2, Insightful)
More like, this spells the end of another battle in Microsoft's war to control the world.
More will be coming.
NTITE
MS has allowed this for AGES (Score:5, Informative)
MS is looking for copies of XP that are nongenuine. Think of it as a negative return check, not a positive return check. The fact that it passed means that MS is fairly certain you're not running a pirated copy of XP (which is correct), NOT that MS is fairly certain you're running a valid version of XP.
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No bulletproof Piracy schemes (Score:2)
So think twice about "Bulletproof Piracy to promote Windows." We want people to choose Linux because they
All Cracks Welcome (Score:2)
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Not all that surprising, since O2K was the first product to require activation.
Windows Update alternative (Score:4, Informative)
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That's not the point (Score:2)
My genuine copy (Score:4, Funny)
I learned this in January (Score:2)
I'm Rob M. by the way... I was really suprised that I could validate it (I wanted the MSI installer, and it's protected), but it worked...
NOTE: I have no connection with this article.
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Embrace and extend language (Score:5, Insightful)
I know the intent is to find the nefarious PC sellers who buy one copy of XP and install it on every machine they sell, but I'm still getting the exact same sequence of bits on my hard drive in that case that I would have if the nefarious PC seller had actually bought a license for each computer he sold.
Fundamentally, it's an attempt to conflate information "property" with physical property in the minds of the public -- even though we know that a "non-genuine" copy of Windows is bit-identical and functionally identical to a "genuine" copy, MS wants people to think that a non-genuine copy has something wrong with it. There IS a legitimate concern about illegit copies that have been modified to include spyware/viruses/etc., but it's entirely possible for such a copy to pass as "genuine" since the software that validates "genuine"-ness won't always know about malicious software (especially if said software is specifically designed to hide from WGA...).
I'm not against copyright and licensing (I'm in favor of much shorter copyright durations, and yes, I produce copyrighted material for a living), but I AM against this attempt to abuse the language.
DMCA (Score:3, Insightful)
They
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If someone did that to my Ubuntu PC... (Score:2)
This is easy.. (Score:2, Informative)
The fact is; these serials don't need further cracking, just installing with them is enough.
HCQ9D-TVCWX-X9QRG-J4B2Y-GR2TT
There we go; no more hassles..
Torrent of video (Score:3, Informative)
I am shocked! (Score:5, Funny)
Wine now WGA certified 1.0? (Score:4, Funny)
Ugh (Score:4, Funny)
Phillip.
Re:Or you know, (Score:4, Funny)
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Good for you. I have had problems with a legit install of Vista Home Premium on my new laptop. It took me a week to find all of the drivers, but I went back to XP.
NTITE
Re:Or you know, (Score:4, Funny)
On the same (?) topic, I ate a hamburger today.
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Slashdot SOP: you didn't RTFA.
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If being able to validate su
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And what exactly IS the point... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Pfft. So what? (Score:4, Informative)
Could be useful for people like my dad - he uses Linux for the internet stuff (and gimp) but boots in Windows (no internet connection for that) to use Excel etc. He doesn't want to expent the effort to keep Windows secure, but he might still want an update for a driver or something like that.
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The GPL only stipulates that buildable source must be available, and encourages distributors to charge money for the service of making said files available. (Duplicating tapes takes time and effort and tapes cost money. Likewise, high-speed network links cost serious coin.)
I've always known that RH = MS.
What an ignorant dweeb. Have you even read the GPL?
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