Dell Ships Ubuntu 7.04 PCs Today 422
javipas writes "Today by 4:00 PM CST Dell will start selling three machines with Ubuntu 7.04 pre-installed. The two desktops (XPS 410n, $899 and Dimension E520n, $599) and the notebook (Inspiron E1505n, $599) will be the first three machines with the popular Linux distribution installed by default. There is little or no price differential between the Linux and Windows models; in fact, the entry level E520 Windows desktop is cheaper. Dell has announced that they will provide hardware support, and they've created a new site devoted to giving further Linux support and updates. At the moment the offer is only available in the US."
Only three ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Only three ? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Only three ? (Score:4, Funny)
I'm one of those 3. Here's the system I'll buy: (Score:3, Interesting)
TFA Updated: All Linux boxen $50-100 less than MS (Score:5, Informative)
Dell updated the article TFA was based on to correct a pricing typo and someone posted a followup to summarize the corrected price differences.
If the compared boxen are actually equivalently-featured (time will tell) all the linux (suffix "n") versions are $50-$100 lower price than the Windows equivalents:
Typical (Score:2)
Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Typical (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Dell doesn't pay the retail cost for Windows.
2) Dell defrays the cost of each PC with the additional software (aka "crapware") that vendors pay to have pre-installed on dell PCs. At the moment, the version of Ubuntu sold with Dell PCs does not include such software...so you are buying a clean PC. Thus, the price comparison noted in the original article is inappropriate. Instead, one should compare the cost of the new Dell Ubuntu models with the cost of their equivalent Windows versions with the dell "clean PC" option...which adds additional expense to the Windows PC.
3) Dell must defray a range of costs associated with these new models, including additional work with OEM vendors for drivers, building a Linux-centric support site, and providing Linux OS phone support...at least with regards to how it relates to the hardware.
4) Most people who will buy one of these models with Ubuntu will most likely not do so to save money. Thus, Dell does not need to offer deep discounts...and this is a free market.
Re:Typical (Score:5, Interesting)
I think for Linux installs they don't get revenue from Symantec's trial of the worst security suite in the world, WildTangent, Office trials, Quicken trials, video game trials, some poker, etc.
So maybe it DOES cost less overall to install Windows.
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Initially, perhaps. Overall, no. Reason: Security.
What price do you want to put on peoples bank accounts, credit cards, ss#, etc?
One piece of malware and that initial savings turns into a vastly expensive liability.
Phishing is bad enough. Windows helps fill in the gaps.
Crapware reabate argument is bogus (Score:3, Insightful)
Services have a cost (Score:2)
If that was the only cost difference, then it would not make sense. But I suspect the cost difference is due to the volume spread of customer support.
As a bussiness, if you were to add support services for any OS or item, the totality of that support would have a total cost. Divide that cost by the number of customers paying for that service and you have your price. Thus more customers, equals greater volume spread of the cost, equals smaller price
It makes perfect sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, I don't know how much Dell pay for a vista license, and I don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon, but if it's less than $50 dollars (which would not be a shock) then the Linux machines being more expensive makes sense. If I had to guess though, I think they will probably sell for the same price as the Windows machines.
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We do not have any special rebates, so that's just the _STANDARD_ price. The chance that it costs Dell a bit more than half the sum we have to pay is very likely.
Craplet funded Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
Therefore, there is business case for MS to give away craplet-infested Windows install disks.
I don't know whether to be amused, intrigued, or run screaming in horror.
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It makes perfect sense when you look at the realities of the market.
There are enormous economies of scale in the mass consumer market. Dell can contract for the entire annual output of a half-dozen Asian OEMs - image these consumer laptops with Windows - with perfect confidence that every one will be sold.
Even Walmart couldn't significantly undercut OEM Windows on price. Linux sales were disappointing. Maintaining a dual inventory and support structu
Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:5, Insightful)
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"We have to charge a few dollars more because we had to take more time to create the Linux config. Not all of the hardware was supported."
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Anyone want a high definition movie player right now? Sure. But the majority will wait until prices drop (and the "war" is settled).
This is just more of the same. The first people are paying for the research in which parts work well in Linux, setting up the support deal, training the techs, setting up the new website, etc. After the early adopters "pay" for these things, the price can drop.
Layne
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:4, Insightful)
One would initially think that only those who know linux will buy one of these with Kubuntu on it, but as more techs convince family and friends to buy them, support costs will rise.
I've never bought a brand-new laptop because I don't really need one, and it's always been a hassle to guarantee Linux will work on it, before I buy it. For only $600 though, I'm seriously considering one of these. It'll depend on specs and if they sell out too quickly. We'll see.
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't see them "selling out". It's basically the same machine they sell for Windows but with a set of options limited to those that work well with Linux. And different software, but they have "infinite" copies of that.
Dell has pretty tight controls over their supply chain. I don't think they would put these models up for sale until they were sure that they could keep the parts flowing in.
Layne
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Dell: Dell support, what seems to be the problem?
User:
Re:Of course entry-level windows is cheaper... (Score:4, Informative)
Eh?
It's all the other software vendors apart from MS who pay for their adware/crapware/scareware to be on the Dell Desktop.
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3rd party software (Score:5, Insightful)
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Uhh WTF? I thought the default installation of Windows XP spit out stupid things like AOL Trial links on the desktop? Dell isnt unique in that regard.
Please tell me you are being facetious. Either that or you have never installed an OEM WinXP.
easy to fix (Score:2)
Quick, let's all start Linux crapware companies!
(actually not a bad idea to be first in the "market" for this, if you can pay the bills long enough for desktop Linux to really take off -- or just do a whole negative-cost distribution for OEMs)
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Microsoft doesn't pay a subsidy. That's ridiculous. Windows is cheaper for Dell as the support infrastructure is already there, and has been there for years and years. A new OS on their line means they obviously have to spend more in getting more staff/callcentres/training/etc. to support it, hence the increased price. It wouldn't make much sense for them to charge non-Ubuntu users for this cost, as that would raise the prices of other lines for no apparent reason. Open source
I'll pay to be sure Linux works now AND later (Score:5, Interesting)
At first, the base price may be more expensive than the Windows laptop, but:
In the past, I have proudly emerged from the entrails of my machine saying, "Yesss! What a breakthrough! Am I a geek or what? After countless hours of Googling, downloading drivers, messing with the hardware, and writing my own script files, my computer now finally works properly!" Meanwhile, my wife's machine has worked from the beginning. Well, been there, done that; now I want to move on. I want it to just work.
So, when I tally it up, it's definitely to my self-interest to get the Dellbuntu system, even if it looks more expensive at first.
OK fanboys... (Score:5, Insightful)
.. you've been asking for this for, let me think, for ever.
It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!
Put your money where your mouth is :-)
monk.e.boy
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I actually do need a new notebook, but there'll be a blizzard in Hell before I buy a low-end notebook from Dell. Too many problems with clients' notebooks and my sister's Inspiron to feel comfortable with that.
-b.
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Personally, I'm happy about this news because my employer buys all desktops and notebooks from Dell (since our Uni has special arrangements with Dell or something). I'm glad I'll be able to order my next office computer and tell them to get one with Ubuntu. (which I'll erase to install Debian Stable).
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Hey, if your employer buys garbage and is willing to handle the warranty claims, hassle, and aggravation, good for him. BTW- Dell desktops are fine -- I just have had major issues with their low-end notebooks in the past.
-b.
Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:4, Interesting)
Agreed. This is the kind of marketing Linux has needed for a while to begin to impinge on the consciousness of the average user. As long as they had to call their geeky neighbor and have him/her install it on their box then spend weeks getting acquainted with the differences, Linux was not going to get any respect. Now, there may be a chance.
Re:Mod parent up; not a troll. (Score:4, Interesting)
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It's time to stop your moaning! And time to start your credit cards!!
Put your money where your mouth is :-)
I have money! It's right here!!!
*waves money*
But, I'm in Canada, you insensitive clods!
Seriously, I know this is starting to get pedantic, but any chance we could get a notebook with a WSXGA+ display? I have to use Eclipse, you see - and its monster real estate. I can be talked down to WXGA+.
Please, Mr. Dell, sir.
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I don't know what their current offerings are, but my laptop (purchased one year ago) has a 17" widescreen monitor running 1920x1200 as its native resolution. Eclipse looks lovely.
Now, this was an upgrade given as one of the "special offers" that seem to run permanently, so I'm not sure about whether you can typically get it.
As a side note, it is an Inspiron 9400.
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CLEARLY anyone who would use a superior OS like Linux would NEVER stoop to such an inferior vendor like DELL!
</nose in air>
I'm already seeing these comments. This attitude tells me that getting Dell to sell Linux boxes is more about pushing their OS onto the uneducated rubes and less about satisfying their own needs/wants.
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Yeah, me too.
Of course, all the instances I've seen have been windows fanboys busy constructing straw men, or just scattering flamebait. Usually with way too much use of block caps for emphasis.
I've not been taking them very seriously.
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It came with XP, plus gigs and gigs of crapware (which were mirrored onto a restore partition for my convenience). Resize, add Ubuntu, figure out why the hell it doesn't sup
Agree (Score:3, Funny)
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/
used to be kinda different. And I made fun of it over here.
http://a4fs.net/img/lol.htm [a4fs.net]
Inspirons (Score:2, Informative)
-b.
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The issue isn't features. It's fragility and quality, which is lacking on the lower-end Inspirons. As far as affording a notebook, there's an abundance of good used Thinkpads for $500-750 -- why anyone would choose a new crappy Dell instead boggles the mind.
-b.
Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Informative)
They are basically the lost leader prices they use to "get you in the door". Once there you can still customize the laptop or desktop with any number of hardware selections, including more RAM, better processor, and larger hard drive. These machines also come with dedicated video cards, as the integrated video isn't supported very well by Ubuntu. So you are STARTING OUT with a better base model than the Windows base model. (Which also explains why the Linux laptop is more expensive than the Windows one.)
My company has been a Dell shop for as long as I have been here, and I've become VERY familiar with Dell's setup. Keep in mind, Dell has been selling "open Source" (Free DOS) Desktops and laptops for YEARS already. Adding Ubuntu isn't THAT much of a change for them. I'd also imagine that you will find that the support package offered by Dell will actually be a Canonical support contract. This was a natural next step for Dell, and I think that all Slashdotters should get behind them. Not just with their words, but with their Dollars. I know that when it's time to replace my personal laptop (in about 6 months), I'll be going through Dell, and getting an Ubuntu Laptop.
Good on ya' Dell!
Re:Inspirons (Score:4, Insightful)
And I'll be laughing at you when I buy a better-quality used laptop for $300-400 and install Ubuntu on it.
-b.
Re:Inspirons (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless you are going to be buying a used Mac Powerbook, I doubt that will be happening.
A used notebook is going to be used, abused, and worn out. Even the much-vaunted Thinkpads are not indestructible, and the notebooks that sell at the prices you mention are going to be more than 3 years old, and completely out of date.
I've not found the Dell laptops to be any better or worse than the competition, and I carry my laptop with me pretty much everywhere I go, so it gets plenty of abuse. It sounds to me like you just have a bug up your butt about Dell. With that I cannot help you, as no matter what I say, your obvious irrational hate of all things Dell will not allow you to take a balanced approach to this issue. It's too bad, because Dell and Ubuntu really do need our support as a community if this is going to work. Trolling Dell for personal reasons just gets in the way.
And before you go off on me as a Dell fanboy, Keep in mind that I was hired into an already established "Dell shop". My company as a long-standing relationship with Dell, and regardless of my personal preferences, Dell is what we use. We have thousands of machines, all Dell, and I have had to work on EVERY ONE of them. I have dealt with Dell support, and I have worked with a Dell Rep. So I'm not just working on the one or two machines owned by family and friends, these boxes are my job to keep running. I have found that duty to be reasonably easy. Yes, we have had our share of lemon machines, but no more than I have run into at other places, with other makes of PC. Dell is no worse or better than any other manufacturer in regards to the general quality of their PCs, excepting perhaps Apple, but those aren't so good in a Windows software programmer shop, so I can't get them.
Dell deserves our support. They listened to their customers, and are giving us what we wanted. They deserve to have this risk rewarded.
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I've spent $220 and $350 respectively on my last two notebooks. They may be out of date, but they work fine for office stuff, on-site troubleshooting, and graphics editing. And neither of the two was particularly beat up when I bought them.
And, BTW, where can I find a g
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But see, here's the thing; If I didn't care about being up to date, I'd keep my OLD laptop (which works just fine), spend $0.00 and laugh at you. But the point of getting a new laptop is to get a NEW (as in UNUSED) laptop. Why in hades would I get someone else's used laptop when I want a new, up to date one? It kind of defeats the purpose by buying a used one.
Dell has given us the opportunity to b
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Besides, I've found that the useful life of most laptops is about 3-4 years. After that they start to either have battery issues, Power Adapter problems, loose or sticky lid hinges, worn keys, cracked frames and other component problems that require either repair or costly replacement parts. Not to mention
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Your best bet is eBay, or the forums at Mac sites such as the ones at Macnn [macnn.com], which has dedicated sales forum. It can be difficult to find cheap Powerbooks, though, as people tend to love them and hang onto them.
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I agree, I will not be buying any of these, computers because I do not live in the US. However, I really hope this is a big success and leads to Dell spreading there offers to other models and countries.
Remember, not only does this mean it is easier for new users to have a computer running Linux/ubuntu/GNU/whatever because they know the hardware will be supported and they don't have to install it etc etc etc. It will also mean more extensive hardware support in Linux because hardware manufacturers will hav
Linux laptop is $100 cheaper than the windows one (Score:3, Insightful)
According to TFA [itwire.com.au], the Linux laptop is $100 LESS expensive than the Windows one. This is GREAT news (despite being an entry model). While Compaq and Lenovo have had Linux laptops, they've been more expensive than the Windows ones. Indee
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While there may be better Dell laptops, $600 for a guaranteed-to-work Linux laptop is pretty good; especially considering this is a major OEM backing it. If people buy these computers as much as they made it sound like they would in the Dell feedback site, then I'm sure their product offering will expand.
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1. The new hardware may not have mature and stable linux drivers yet.
2. The linux push is starting with low-end cheap equipment (ignoring the xps for a moment). 599 for a laptop with linux is a pretty smart move.
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they must be saving a LOT putting OSS on the machine.
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Um, features aren't the issue here. Lack of quality and durability is -- I actually use my laptop as a portable, meaning that I throw it in a backpack and take it to client sites, put said backpacks on train luggage racks and have had stuff dumped on top. So far, it's survived more or less intact. I don't think that a flimsy Inspiron would do the same.
-b.
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People are funny -- they'll think: isn't that the OS that they put on cheap crappy computers? A lot of people don't differentiate the computer hardware from the OS -- they think of computers as Windows, Macs, or Linuxes.
-b.
Next to worthless (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll be happy to be proven wrong by history though.
Price Subject to Change? (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be silly to introduce a new version of a product and sell it for less than an existing product.
If it were me, I'd start with the price up a little bit for two reasons. 1, less complaining when the price goes down versus up (yes, someone will complain on a price drop!). 2, with a higher price I have a cushion in case these things start selling like hotcakes and the volume murders my margin as I burn resources to keep up.
SOP, nothing to see here.
Re:Price Subject to Change? (Score:5, Informative)
According TFA, the prices are still cheaper (except the XPS) for the Ubuntu systems as long as you compare it to an Windows Vista Home Premium configuration (vs. the Home Basic).
It breaks down like this:
The E520 and the E1505n are both cheaper by $80-$100 compared to the Vista Home Premium Edition (though the Windows notebook is actually cheaper even for Home Basic). That's still a good deal in my view.Re: (Score:2)
Ok, reading these comments I'm confused... (Score:2)
Now they're actually paying OEM's to have their software installed?
My personal guess is that Dell know this'll be a specialist product line, and that the extra money they would've spent on buying each copy of Windows is instead going towards Michael Dells' cigar allowance...unless of course it becomes a serious product line (which it might), and then you'll see a proper roll-out.
Any projections of how well these will sell? (Score:2)
Has anyone done any formal projections of how well these are expected to sell?
What/who is the target market? From my (admittedly limited) point of view, there are only two types of users: Linux users and "everyone else". The Linux users, such as myself, already know how to install Linux, so they have no need to buy a machine with it pre-installed. Everyone else doesn't know any better, so they'll just stick with what they know (Windows) or what is most heavily advertised (again, Windows), and/or what i
Meanwhile, in the UK... (Score:3, Interesting)
We get a very mixed message. Searching Dell's UK site [dell.co.uk] for 'Ubuntu' brings up this page [dell.com], but if you go through all the options on the online store, Linux isn't there.
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I feel your pain. Once I heard the news I darted onto Dell's Portugal site [www.dell.pt] and when I search for "ubuntu" I get a "Sorry, No Results." To make matters worse, when I search for "Inspiron E1505n" on Dell's USA site I also get that "Sorry, No Results." message. So how come there are claims about Dell selling linux laptops and once we look for those products there is absolutely nothing there?
I call shenanigans.
Reinvesting the Extra Profits (Score:2)
Ubuntu support might cost more to start, since the labor pool is smaller and they have to start up the operation. The open source is a mixed bag, because it sees a new release to support every 6 months, not every 5 years for Windows, though unpredictable W
linux.dell.com isnt new (Score:2)
Microsoft Tax (Score:2)
3kg, same price as Microsoft, non-free hardware... (Score:2)
3kg laptop
Same price as the Windows install
Hardware is no more "free" than most Think Pads ( its an Intel chip set after all)
This is not a serious attempt. You are better off trying to get a refund from your Windows OEM license. Unless the argument is that Dell's website is easier to navigate than the Ubuntu installer this is rubbish. Way to screw it up Dell...
Price ranges (Score:3, Interesting)
XPS 410 [dell.com] ranges from $899 - $1699 with Vista. Ubuntu base is price is $899.
Inspiron E1505 [dell.com] ranges from $699 - $1,560 with Vista. Ubuntu base price is $599, difference is -$100.
Fuck, only in the US (Score:2)
My father wants to buy a notebook, and the Inspiron 1501 was ideal for him. At home, he runs already Debian (supported by me), and it gives him everything he needs. A Ubuntu notebook would have been the max.
Changing the rules of the game---in MSFT's favor?! (Score:3, Interesting)
It just occurred to me that Microsoft has been accused of abusing their monopoly power by bundling applications with their operating system. E.g., IE versus Netscape, Windows Media Player versus RealPlayer, etc. (For anyone who's not familiar with this idea: Microsoft, due to their operating system monopoly status, has an unfair advantage in the applications market.)
Now, clearly you can build and ship an Ubuntu (or just about any other Linux distribution) machine pre-loaded with tons of free software. And that probably needs to happen to make Linux effective for the "unwashed masses".
But, is it possible for Microsoft to take a look at this, and use it as an excuse to start forcing more 3rd party software developers out of the market? If I remember correctly, Microsoft's defense to the monopoly abuse allegations has always been something like "but these applications are part of the operating system." Dell shipping Ubuntu plus a lot of applications kind of supports Microsoft's claim (in a weird, twisted way, which I'm sure Microsoft's well-paid lawyers could use to their advantage).
What's the point? (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, for a group of people that make such a big deal about OS choice, they'd probably be likely to wipe off Ubuntu as soon as possible (if not for a newer version of Ubuntu when it's available or for their distro of choice). So why not just get the desktop with Windows? They're not more expensive, you just have to install Linux versus having it done for you.
Yeah I know, I'm being facetious. I know this is all purely a symbolic thing. A big name company is selling Linux boxes. Woo hoo. And they're going to stop selling these Linux boxes when Linux geeks either don't buy any (because they want to build their own machines) or the Linux geeks who buy one or two boxes just to show support, well, stop buying boxes. No one outside of the Linux world would care about these machines since they can just get one that has Windows for the same price.
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The ability to buy freedom for +$0-$100 more than the alternative, and invest in potentially a positive feedback loop of more and more vendors attempting to make Dell buy their components, thereby improving linux compatibility across the field?
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Re:Dial Up (Score:4, Interesting)
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Some day I hope they get there, but that day is not today.
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With all due respect to open-source, which I use all the time (including Gimp), Photoshop is a remarkable piece of software that will not be easily duplicated. This isn't a case of open-source creating a free quality competitor to an expensive piece of crap like Linux/Windows, Firefox/IE, Apache/IIS. So far the best
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A telephone number to call for support of your Linux OS without additional charge and hardware driver support to ensure all parts of your PC work out of the box.
Now with that being said, open up the floodgates of Dell technical support bashing. Come on, you know you want to hit that reply button and post your favorite bashing...
http://www.toppctechs.com/images/tech1.swf [toppctechs.com]
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Re:What they fail to mention (Score:4, Insightful)
Not everyone does professional-quality PAPER graphic design. For most Web work, GIMP is just fine.
-b.
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Re:Don't bitch about the price (Score:4, Informative)
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I dunno - still seems expensive.
*ducks*
Re:I would have thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, tell ya what - I want Ubuntu, I want it on a laptop, and I think I'm clued up enough (been running linux for years; two Slackware servers and an Ubuntu desktop at home; I switched my work-machine from Windows to Ubuntu and then wrote a guide that nine other colleagues used to do the same).
I'm pretty confident that I've got the skills to buy the Windows machine from Dell, and switch it myself (though no, I wouldn't dual-boot, I have no use for Windows on it). I could probably find the right drivers for the GoofyCool wireless card, get the sleep function working, etc, etc, etc. As I said elsewhere, I've even got the money. So why don't I? To be honest, I really don't have the time. Married, kids, full-time job, plus other responsibilities. Something else would have to suffer - something that (and here I put my geek-card at risk) frankly, is more important than a new toy.
I don't want to shell out a grand or whatever and then have to spend time I don't have to turn the machine into what I actually needed in the first place. There is a time I would have, and would have relished the chance - but that time is long passed.
I'm a reasonably sophisticated Linux user, and even a Linux advocate - but in this case - I'm primarily a consumer with a need and the willingness to pay for it. The guy who offers to fulfill that need, gets the cash.
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1) Plug it in
2) Turn it on
3) Start working (or playing, etc.)
The fact that Dell is selling Ubuntu-loaded machines means I don't have to add a "Download and install Ubuntu, and spend an hour tweaking everything 'till it sorta works" step in there.
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Oh, puhleeeze... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dell is geared up with the kind of manufacturing capacity to supply systems to Wal-Mart at the ridiculously low prices they demand. Landing a huge sales channel like this is hardly desperation on Dell's part. This is a win for both companies. Maybe even for those of us who buy systems, too.