Will Dell Be Bad For Ubuntu? 372
vcore writes "Many people are excited for Ubuntu's upcoming release on Dell computers, and while it is certainly good news there are a few causes for concern. Very few details have emerged so far so it is not completely clear what impact Dell with have on the thriving Ubuntu community. But there are questions concerning support, logistics, pricing, and a number of other areas that are affected. From the article: 'Dell is in the practice of filling their computers with large amounts of "bloatware" and also all sorts of co-branding, but it remains to be seen what they will do with Ubuntu. It has been reported that Dell will be shipping a standard version of Ubuntu 7.04...'"
AOL? (Score:5, Funny)
Like AOL was bad for the Internet?... Oh wait!
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Re:AOL? (Score:4, Funny)
No worse than VMWare has been... (Score:3, Interesting)
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It's because thenewsroom is not a destination; see this post [blogs.com] for more info.
I switched at home (Score:5, Interesting)
How can Dell be bad for Ubuntu? Yes, I RTFA and I think most of the potential problems are non-issues. The update mechanisms can scale; Dell can help if need be. I can buy support from Canonical or Dell can outsource it to them if Dell can't handle it.
I don't really see the downside. I'd love to see a few completely clueless oldsters accidentally get one of these Ubuntu Dell machines for their first and only computer. Then we'd have converts who simply didn't know any other way.
Even a clueless newbie can figure out Feisty. Now, I think there's another Slashdot post I want to read.
Re:I switched at home (Score:5, Interesting)
Notice the increase of legal threats from Microsoft towards Linux distributors lately? They want this STOPPED.
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So LET 'em piss their pants in fright. This is exciting!! The more energy we have behind this movement, the more we will be able to defeat the Goliath!
GO UBUNTU!!
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The leeter we go!
Re:I switched at home (Score:5, Funny)
i swear the BSD folks are just sitting there, waiting for Linux to become mainstream so they can become the token elite.
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I thought the BSD folks *WERE* the token elite, and us Linux folks were the wanna-bes.
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Humm... that's Plan9 and Inferno.
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Don't you remember last week? [slashdot.org]
If they extend immunity to Dell, they can't make legal threats to Dell. It seems to me like Microsoft is a two-headed monster lately which can't agree with itself on how to attack.
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It's not worth it to Microsoft to trade the benifits of being a monopoly away to avoid the costs of being a monopoly. A couple million a day in non-compliance fines is much cheaper than application developers porting to Linux because it has 25% market share would be - once that starts happening they're basically done.
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I don't really see the downside. I'd love to see a few completely clueless oldsters accidentally get one of these Ubuntu Dell machines for their first and only computer. Then we'd have converts who simply didn't know any other way.
I've installed Kubuntu on friend's computers without problems (I didn't force it on them. I just installed it, because a) their windows installation went to hell, b) their windows cd was damaged, and c) I didn't have a windows cd to install). That is, they haven't had problems using the system. Most home users just use webmail, surf the web, and use their ipod. Maybe write essays etc if they are still in school. Linux can do these tasks easily.
The problem with Linux is not using the system. Linux, wi
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i dunno, ubuntu's installer is pretty friendly. it skated through the Aunt Tillie test for me.
it's certainly better than the dos holdover that is the XP installer, though the vista installer looks to be pretty nice, though i haven't personally used that yet.
Re:I switched at home (Score:5, Funny)
Compared with XP it is 'prettier', asks fewer questions, and can slipsteam updates on its own. I never did try it on blank disk (not formatted with any file system). The XP installer not being able to continue without one was always annoying.
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This is honestly the funniest thing I've ever read on slashdot. Wish I had mod points...
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How will that affect Ubuntu. Probably not too much, unless the bloatware software writers want to starting writing lots of non-windows software all of a sudden.
I did get ahold of a Dell Inspiron 1505 with XP, and it was so loaded up with bloatware that the owner asked my to format the XP partition, and "start over". Used my Knoppix Remaster [geocities.com] to look around in the drive, and see what partitions Dell had. Seems there were several, one for the Media Direc
Clueless oldster? Check. (Score:2, Interesting)
You can't see the downside?!! (Score:5, Funny)
BS (Score:4, Funny)
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Bloatware and spyware on a Linux system is something I had hoped I'd never get to see. The same goes for anti-spyware. If Dell includes them it will trigger a dirty vicious cycle.
I'd love to see a few completely clueless oldsters accidentally get one of these Ubuntu Dell machines for their first and only computer. Then we'd have converts who simply didn't know any other way.
Some of them may be curious enough to give it 5 minutes, but I doubt it. They'll just get whatever OS t
spam spam spam Ubuntu and spam -- without the spam (Score:2)
Never fear. If Dell ships Ubuntu with crap, then the community will quickly come up with a linux version of the PC Decrapifier" [pcdecrapifier.com] that people use to remove the bloatware from windows-based Dell PCs.
Of course, I'd rather see Dell not ship the crap to begin with. But if the crap lets Dell sell me the box for 10% less, I'll take it wi
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A clueless newbie would do just fine on Feisty. However, being a newbie nowadays means usually one of three things: you're a kid, or you're quite old, or very poor. I might recommend Ubuntu for old people, and possibly poor people (tons of free software out-
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Oh, that's a good one. I haven't seen comedy like this in ages. Keep 'em coming!
because HP service rocks
Oh, man, that's even funnier than the last one! I swear, you're a comic genius.
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Re:I switched at home (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I switched at home (Score:4, Interesting)
People ask me all the time what kind of new computer to buy. Once I get them to agree that they've completely given up on their current machine and written off all the data on it, I give them a CD with Ubuntu. I tell them to just put it into their old computer and boot it up. I give them just enough information for them to kick off an install. I tell them to let it do whatever it wants if it asks questions. In a couple of cases, I've had those users, clueless all, come back and tell me they appreciated having a working second computer for various basic tasks. None of them were dissuaded from buying that new Windows computer but at least there are more and more regular non-computer hobbyist types who are learning that there are OSes other than Win and Mac. I think that's how Linux will spread to "normal" users: via the recommendation of a trusted geek.
Now that Dell has it pre-installed, I can make that recommendation when they ask me what new computer to get after, of course, I verify they have no need of anything aggressively Windows-specific. Sometimes there are specific games involved and Linux is out of the question, but not as often as you might think. (I mostly deal with middle-aged folks.) Dell is providing us another way to fulfill the "spread via recommendation of a trusted geek" model.
I see that as a good thing. You may see it as no big deal or an idea doomed to failure. Time will tell if either, neither, or both of us is right.
hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
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Dell is a by-product of Windows' glory days. As Windows starts to wane, Dell is doing the sensible thing: diversifies its offer. It's something that most IT businesses have done ages ago. You cannot ignore Linux anymore, and you cannot ignore the fact Windows is a crappy product, sold through shoddy business practices, on a market that just got wiser. You just can't base your business on Windows anymore, not if you expect
Answer (Score:4, Interesting)
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"sudo su -"
and leave the root password empty.
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Is that even possible in Ubuntu? I've tried logging in as root before, and it doesn't work. I've only been able to do superuser commands using sudo.
Root doesn't have a password, so you can't do it "out of the box." You can set a root password - and then su to it. I imagine you could then log in to root from the login prompt - although I haven't actually tried that myself.
One would hope, though, that this remains in the purview of the clueful, but destructive, as opposed to the clueless. At least yo
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To help that get the dander up I'll point out that anyone who cared about the 'right' way to do things with regard to user interfaces would be using OSX.
Re:Answer (Score:4, Interesting)
Indeed. I haven't posted my Konqueror diatribe in over a month.
Seriously, though, Dell shipping Ubuntu could greatly escalate the existing tension. Ubuntu defaults to Gnome, so Gnome will be the "environment for newbies", and some people will try to differentiate themselves by running KDE. KDE users will probably become arrogant and fanboyish, with the influx of punks trying to be 1337. This, of course, will drive the old-school Gnome users insane. KDE 4 will eventually release some time in '08, pushing people completely over the edge. Next thing you know, we'll turn on the news and hear about people being trampled to death at a linux con.
No joke.
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1. No shared credentials. Personal logins not only let you avoid the hassles and insecurity of a shared password, but also give you accountability when someone does something stupid.
2. Allow only certain commands to be run as root -- yo
Re:Answer (Score:5, Informative)
Users occasionally need to perform administrative tasks. This happens frequently enough that if they needed to log out and log back in as root to do them, they would just stay logged in as root all the time for convenience. That's obviously not secure.
So, that means that there needs to be a way to get administrative privileges temporarily. In order to have any security at all from this, it has to require user interaction (otherwise programs could automatically get root, and there would be no security). That leaves the choice between the Windows Vista "press OK to perform admin task" solution and the Mac OS X / Ubuntu "type in your password to perform admin task" solution. Making the user type in their password at least proves that it's not someone else sitting down at their computer, and makes sure the user notices that something special happened.
Re:Answer (Score:5, Funny)
As an added bonus, we will throw in an instant free to download screensaver*.
*Screensaver is pay per use, so we can bill you honestly for the time your computer is resting, do not be put off by substitutes who charge a fixed fee no matter how much time you actually use your screensaver.
Bloatware is common (Score:3, Insightful)
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It might actually help get some more mainstream programs into linux.
a dell photo album tool on several thousand ubuntu installs could force Adobe into releasing its photo album software for linux. This inturn could lead to finally having professional adobe tools on linux.
Not to mention having more linux / firefox users would spur more development on flash tools for linux.
Dells DVD Tools could force Nero or PowerDV
compare it with windows (Score:2, Insightful)
i cannot even install the generic ati driver for my card, although it would work without any problems - have to use those hacked omega drivers instead for it in windows, so actually this article is a bit of nonsense
what support does dell need to give for ubuntu?
answer: nothing, thats why we have those ubuntu forums
just install it on the machines and take care that graphics drivers, sound drivers etc are installed and activated and voila, ready to go
and l
No, but .. (Score:3, Funny)
As long as Mark Shuttleworth doesn't go and do anything foolish like signing cross-licensing patent deals then a big No, but I can guarantee the MS/Novell/Dell deal will be bad for at least two of those organizations. I leave it to you to figure out who exactly
Misleading Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, Dell will have to make a huge infrastructure investment just to sell Ubuntu-equipped equipment. Someone PHB with authority at Dell will have to force the various departments to get this stuff done. Typical to a large company, it will probably be done poorly because change is rarely welcomed. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a linux-equipped Dell will probably be more expensive than windows.
There are two much bigger questions:
1. How will Dell structure Ubuntu sales? PHB's will, at some point, review Ubuntu sales and decide if it generates enough ROI to continue. How that ROI will be defined will heavily influence whether or not they stick with it. This is where politics meets the accounting department and decides the fate of this effort before a single unit is sold.
2. How will Microsoft respond? I'm thinking this is really more of a stick to beat Microsoft with more than anything else.
I don't really want Dell selling Ubuntu-equipped PC's. It will be bad for distro diversity.
Re:Misleading Summary (Score:5, Insightful)
How will it be bad for distro diversity? (Score:3, Insightful)
1. There will be reliable market research on Linux desktop penetration. This means the start of a new startup/IPO bubble that will do much more harm than good.
2. The most important aspects of Free software that actually drive innovation will be abandoned for hybrids like Ubuntu. These hybrids will not support the Free software components. Look at Redhat for an example of how this works. They've got sort-of-free software and lots and more and more proprietary software that goes on top of their sort-
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Maybe having a better Linux is what he wants. The guy has given a lot of money to a lot of open source projects. People do sometimes donate money for non-shifty reasons. Perhaps he really just wants to see F/OSS succeed.
I think Dell selling Ubuntu will make a negligible difference in distro diversity. That's just my op
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How is one desktop distribution becoming more popular, especially a community-maintained distribution like Ubuntu, a bad thing? It'll make Linux more popular overall, and totally kill the "too many choices" FUD. It's not like you have to stop using whatever your favorite distro is - hell, if you buy a Dell with Ubuntu you know the hardware works with any Linux-based distro. At worst, people might start releasing prop
It will increase diversity, not lessen (Score:2)
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How is that going to prevent me from using the environment of my choice?
It won't.
If I decide that I want to use Gnome and/or KDE applications within FVWM, it
does mean that I need to load the required libraries, but I can live
with that.
A few points (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Anyone who actually chooses to install Ubuntu over Windows will probably either have the motivation to try something new, or they'll already know what they're doing.
3) The FOSS community should be embracing and celebrating this. This is a huge step for Ubuntu and Linux in general. The general computing public is now seeing more alternatives from the big beast in Redmond. The more they see choice, the more likely they will be to choose - either now or in the future.
Please, remain in contact with the mothership (Score:5, Insightful)
But, please, remain in contact with the mothership - Debian.
Ween them slowly ... (Score:5, Insightful)
First I've convinced them to use Firefox. I've gotten inconsistent results from users. But most are pleased. Next I've been talking people into ditching whatever mail provider they currently use, their ISP or Hotmail or whatever, in exchange for gmail. The results are generally positive. The last big hurdle for "average users" is a productivity sweet to replace MS Office (which I've found is rarely licensed anyway). OpenOffice.org works GREAT for about 99.99% of their uses and that last tiny bit can be done some other way. I've also personally had good results from Google's online stuff. But I haven't actually set anyone up using either of these solutions yet.
The last thing to do is install a free OS and let them keep using their existing apps and services. Personally I think that Google's solutions, Firefox, and Open Office are the best tool for converting troublesome 'computer dependents' to Linux, and eliminating the vast majority of our problems. The best part is, you can get them using all these options before you take Windows away from them.
7 years old (Score:2, Interesting)
Unlike Windows, even Windows does not always expect to be rebooted after installing new software. Oh, he's using 7 year old software from Microsoft, forgot about that. Would be nice to note that statement is a very weak comparison in 2007/XP/Vista.
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Nearly every time a Windows update completes I am required to restart. In fact, if I -don't- restart I'm presented with a pop up every 5 minutes reminding me that I need to restart.
If you just want to look at software and not OS updates, typically any software that installs/updates a driver or registry entry requires a restart upon completion.
Doing a new windows install from fresh to fully patched and all software/drivers installed requires me to restart 3-5 times. Doin
Re:7 years old (Score:4, Informative)
gpedit.msc -> Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
Set "Re-prompt for restart with scheduled installations" to disabled.
Re:7 years old (Score:5, Insightful)
gpedit.msc -> Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
Set "Re-prompt for restart with scheduled installations" to disabled.
Judging by the standards that are usually applied to linux distros I conclude that Windows is not ready for the desktop.
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You are a moron. The expression "ready for the desktop" precisely means "usable without any special skills whatsoever".
Compu-elitism? (Score:5, Interesting)
Part of the attraction of Linux has been that the user community consists of a select group of highly informed individuals. A few years back, only those "in the know" had heard of the OS at all. Even now, it primarily appeals to those comfortable with OS installs and compiles from the command line. The Dell support for Ubuntu lowers the bar considerably, democratizing access even -- dare I say it -- going so far as to turn AOL users into Linux users. This is indeed a frightening possibility to many, but I am convinced that Dell's support is a good thing and a goal that many Microsoft bashers have advocated but never actually expected to come to pass.
So now we must move on to the next battlefields wherein the truly geeky may differentiate themselves from the huddled masses yearning to break free of their (Redmond wrought) chains. Certainly some will fight bitter battles over which distribution is best. Others might even start using BSD, much to the Netcraft-troll's dismay. Some might even quit whining and start writing some code.
Okay, I admit that last possibility is far fetched, but one can idealistically dream.
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A tale from Bulgaria. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a little folk tale for this situation, coming from Bulgaria where I'm natively from.
Peter was a very poor villager. He was saving some money to buy eggs and grow chickens with which to feed his family. One day he took the money, went to the market and bought the eggs, then headed to home.
On the way, he started thinking "nice, nice, nice, I have 4 fertile eggs, from those eggs I'll grow 4 chicken. Those chickens will give eggs, and they'll grow into chickens too. I'll soon have hundreds of chickens, and I'll buy a farm house to keep them in. Those hundreds of chickens will give me hundreds of eggs, which I'll sell, and I'll buy four cows. Those cows will have many calves, and each of them will grow into a cow and all those cows will give me lots of milk. I'll be rich, and buy a second farm for my cows and calves. I'll buy a house in the city, and meet with the mayor and all important people. People will recognize me on the street and say, hello Peter! That'll be great!"
And while he was thinking about all those things, he tripped in a stone and broke the eggs.
Re:A tale from Bulgaria. (Score:5, Funny)
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I wonder what's the link (btw, she's called Perrette).
.
What if the Open Source Movement made cars? (Score:5, Funny)
1. The car would come in a kit, and would have to be assembled by hand.
2. The instructions for assembling it would be free, but so poorly written you'd have to hire specialists, who would in the end cost more than a Microsoft car
3. The gearstick would be designed by EMACS fans. It would be powerful, and feature rich, but changing gear would be an 18 step process designed for a driver with 4 hands.
4. If the passenger wanted to read a map, he'd have to enter the driver's seat in order to get permission.
5. The steering wheel would be gone. In its place, an "innovative" interface designed by the Blender and Gimp teams, consisting of 2 dead fish and a broken plastic spatula.
6. Richard Stallman would insist the vehicles be described as GNU/Cars.
7. It would be broken into as frequently as Microsoft cars, despite it's much touted security claims. Joe Sixpack couldn't be bothered to lock the door on his MS car, and he can't be bothered to lock it on his GNU/Car.
8. In car entertainment would consist entirely of items cloned from Microsoft.
9. Your grandmother wouldn't be able to drive it.
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"Okay, I'm ready to assemble the car in my garage. Do I need the garage door opener?"
"Nah, not really necessary."
Then when I'm about done putting it together, a message would say "closing the garage door is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED". I'd close the garage door.
Then the car would fail to start. Oh crap. Well, I'll go inside my home and get my computer and ask for help.
Wait, the door's locked. HOW CAN THE DOOR TO MY HOME BE LOCKED? "Linux
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Long Term Support. (Score:5, Interesting)
The correct answer... (Score:4, Funny)
gnome_cups_manager has a bug with color (Score:2)
$ sudo make cups # Ubuntu has a bug in gnome-cups-manager
Will Dell be bad for Windows? (Score:2)
Ubuntu is not mandatory (Score:3, Interesting)
Dell may even be able to make the situation better for the Ubuntu (and general linux) community by increasing the user base and potentially helping with drivers, funding, etc. After all, they have their precious reputation at stake and it is in their best interest to see Ubuntu succeed and improve upon itself, if only to make their own customers happy.
Driver Support (Score:2)
There is no pricing, you can buy support, but you dont have to. If there are more vendors to sell it, you have compitition, which is good.
Driver support will increase as Dell would be interested to have all hardware supported. As they limited the PCs they deliver Ubuntu with, this must not be the case. But new technology/vendors might be selected by Dell for good linux support.
There might be a higher load on mirros, but as Dell is interested in having good per
I see absolutely no issues, so long as... (Score:4, Insightful)
Considering Ubuntu itself has a paid line of support....
I call it flirty fapper (Score:2)
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Using 6.06 here (I had to look that up, 'cause I only know it as Dapper)
The names don't have to be "corporate", but I would be happy if they simply weren't dorky.
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Probably, the same thing they do if someone downloads and uses any of the many alternative shells for Windows instead of the standard desktop and then wants support, which I would assume is "punts".
Dell doesn't provide support for every piece of available Windows software (even if it is from Microsoft),
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Maybe you could set up a system of download repositories containing vast collections of open-source software, and include with the distribution a GUI app which would make installing such software as easy as selecting it from a menu...
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(this looks at my mail logs to see what I've discarded as obvious spam).
"easy" depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The flexibility of my linux boxen, servers and desktops included, make it far far easier for me to use than any windows box I've ever had to use. This is mostly due to a couple of simple things:
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http://www.zolved.com/synapse/view_content/28021/
Is this simple enough?
Linux has very good installer packages... (Score:5, Informative)
In the 500MHz days, I tried Mandrake Linux, which I was told was "as easy as Windows". "It finds all your hardware and just works." After spending a month trying to get it on the network and talking to a Windows share (with some success), I decided it was just too difficult, like the previous post is saying.
That was then, this is now. I installed Ubuntu Feisty on 2 laptops and it just worked. All the hardware really was found and installing programs with--ready for this--the Add/Remove Programs menu option...is brain-dead simple. Connecting to network shares is just as easy as Windows. In some cases, I have gone to the command line to install something, but 99% of the time, it's just:
Ooh, that's hard.
The biggest problem was that I had to type in 3 command-line commands to get a wireless network card to work. But on Windows XP, I had to call India 3 times to do the same thing, so what's really easier? Hint: the command line was much faster...
Linux is no longer a frustrating command-line-ridden exercise for a Windows user. In fact, if you are already using Firefox and OpenOffice, which I was, you will find it to be very similar.
I have found Linux equivalents for most of what I do. Also, I have gotten many programs to work under Wine just fine. I haven't even found the need to install a Windows virtual machine yet, and it's been over a month.
All that to say, your comments are a little outdated. I thought the same as you did until Vista frustrated me so much that I gave Ubuntu a spin.
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I see this kind of post on here a lot, so I'll just step in and correct/clarify the "Mac OS X is BSD" thing.
Mac OS X is not a BSD. It has a BSD userland, which means that many of the console applications that BSD uses is also available on Mac OS X.
Mac OS X doesn't use a BSD kernel either, it uses XNU. The drivers for BSD are also not portable to a Mac OS X system.
The rest of your post is fairly accurate; Mac OS X supports a lot of hardware, but as a whole, I'd say Linux supports a hell of a lot more -- b
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