Follow Slashdot blog updates by subscribing to our blog RSS feed

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Linux Business Software Linux

Interview With Mark Shuttleworth 161

suka writes "The founder of the Ubuntu project argues in a recent interview with derStandard.at that the time for mass consumer sales of Linux on the desktop has not yet come. He goes on to talk about the integration of proprietary drivers, the One Laptop per Child project, and 'great applications' from Microsoft."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Interview With Mark Shuttleworth

Comments Filter:
  • Text only (Score:5, Informative)

    by choongiri ( 840652 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @02:49PM (#18772137) Homepage Journal
  • by antireverser ( 1088017 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @02:49PM (#18772153)
    He sounds pretty cool, for a communist!

    Remember kids, when you download GNU/Linux, you're installing with Stallman, who is the new Stalin!
    • by WaZiX ( 766733 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @03:18PM (#18772561)
      In Soviet Ubuntu, apt gets you?

      dpkg-reconfigure humor damnit!
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        In Soviet Ubuntu, apt gets you?
        Well, from the article:
        this version of Ubuntu will not include any video footage unless it also includes either the source content or access to the source content.
        Well, the source content of a video is whatever was filmed. So better make sure you're not on a video distributed with Ubuntu. :-)
        • That would totally suck. I'd have to go to somebody's house every time they demanded to see the source? And I have to do it for free? No, thanks. ;)

          I think the idea is just plain silly. "...this version of Ubuntu will not include any video footage unless it also includes either the source content or access to the source content." Sounds like a weird sort of marketing spin to me, to please the "everything must be free" people. As an independent film maker, if I included video content on such a distribut
    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      Remember Stallman's vision is a world where everything-- libraries, the OS, programs-- every strip of code is GPL. If you try to introduce a new, non-GPL strip of code, it needs to be a license which is "GPL Compatible" so that as soon as it links to any library it becomes GPL (rather, anything that links to it implicitly links to GPL code by proxy, and thus is forced to be GPL or "GPL compatible").

      To escape this visionary world, you have to write your own OS, own tools, own compiler, own C library, everyt
      • by WaZiX ( 766733 )
        And here I thought that the core of Marxism was that a central government ruled all production in a given country...

        Truthiness Anyone?
        • And here I thought that the core of Marxism was that a central government ruled all production in a given country...

          Common misconception. Actually, if you read Communist Manifesto, you'll see that Marx argues that history leads inevitably from feudalism to capitalism to an anarchical state in which all contribute to the common good, communism. The idea was that economic decisions would be made democratically by the proletariat rather than by the capitalists.

          Lenin and Stalin's "contribution" was to rush

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by WaZiX ( 766733 )
            Actually, if you read Communist Manifesto,

            Have you read Das Kapital [wikipedia.org]? The Communist Manifesto was more of an ideological essay, his real economic work can be found in there.

            You know, to put misconceptions aside... You'll learn that the core of Marxism is that capitalistic profit is an abuse of the proletariat, and that it should be banned; but he also realized that profit (and this is where my previous post came from) is the main driving force behind technological development, so in order for a socie
            • So, to put it shortly, the Communist Manifesto is inconsistent with Das Kapital in that one lauds the death of the state and the other calls for a strong state.
      • by Bogtha ( 906264 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @04:42PM (#18773945)

        To escape this visionary world, you have to write your own OS, own tools, own compiler, own C library, everything

        Nonsense. Just because an OS is GPLed, it doesn't mean everything running on it has to be. Just because a compiler is GPLed, it doesn't mean that the things you compile with it must be. Just because tools are GPLed, it doesn't mean the things you use them for must be. The GPL is only as viral as copyright normally is.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          Well, GCC has a GPL exception in it. GCC builds code that contains code from GCC itself, and links to libgccs, and links in some entry point code (there's code for PIC, non-PIC, relocatable, non-relocatable, etc). This code is all under GPL; if you link it to your program (by building your program with GCC) you get a program that must be GPL'd. The GCC exception is a clause that states that you can do this without GPL'ing your code, if and only if the linkage is a result of using GCC and not of your expl
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ggvaidya ( 747058 )
        I think you've got to backwards - which isn't to say you aren't making a very good point; you are, it's just not the point you think it is.

        Remember Stallman's vision is a world where everything-- libraries, the OS, programs-- every strip of code is GPL. If you try to introduce a new, non-GPL strip of code, it needs to be a license which is "GPL Compatible" so that as soon as it links to any library it becomes GPL (rather, anything that links to it implicitly links to GPL code by proxy, and thus is forced to

  • "Yes" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @02:52PM (#18772195)
    derStandard.at: So are we going to get pre-installed Ubuntu on Dell computers?
    Mark Shuttleworth: Well - time will tell.
    derStandard.at: Are there active talks on that?
    Mark Shuttleworth: I would not comment on any conversations underway.


    What a long winded way Mark has of saying "We're talking with Dell right now."
    • by MadJo ( 674225 )

      What a long winded way Mark has of saying "We're talking with Dell right now."
      Those types of conversations are very sensitive, he was probably advised not to say anything like that. (this way you could induce that they are talking with Dell, but he doesn't actually say it.
      So that when eventually there is no deal, he can't be held responsible for any false hopes. After all, he didn't say that they were having talks with Dell, it was only in your mind.
  • Bleah (Score:5, Informative)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @02:53PM (#18772203) Homepage Journal

    He goes on to talk about the integration of proprietary drivers, the One Laptop per Child project, and 'great applications' from Microsoft."

    All he says about Microsoft is that they make some "great applications". I can only assume he's talking about Office, or Visio or something.

    All he says about OLPC is that he's afraid they'll be criticized for not getting the machine down to $100 yet, and that he'd be happy to help any governments run Ubuntu on the thing if that's what they want.

    And all he says about integration of proprietary drivers is that they're willing to do it to make software work. So there's no news on ANY of those fronts.

    Much more interesting is what he says about the new truly Free distro that's coming out. It will contain no media, no documentation, and no firmware for which source is not provided. There won't be a video clip unless you can get the materials used to make it. No PDFs without the source documents needed to produce them. Now THAT is a wonderful thing to contemplate.

    • How many CDs will it take to ship all of that?
      • by Qzukk ( 229616 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @03:10PM (#18772445) Journal
        How many CDs will it take to ship all of that?

        I dunno... probably somewhere around 21 [osuosl.org].
      • How many CDs will it take to ship all of that?

        I'd guess at least two. But then, maybe it will just have less content. Also he says that the sources don't need to be on the disc necessarily, but that you will be able to get them.

        I would hope that Ubuntu will be going DVD one of these days soon, because it would allow them to unify the various flavors of distribution. Maybe even to put multiple architectures on one disc. It wouldn't eliminate the CD version, because many people need it, but it would be a po

        • by Braino420 ( 896819 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @03:18PM (#18772567)

          I would hope that Ubuntu will be going DVD one of these days soon
          It is available on dvd [anl.gov]. It doesn't have all the different "flavors" of ubuntu, but those are just an apt-get away (or you can download the dvd for that flavor).
          • It doesn't even have the various types of install (server, desktop, etc) does it? It looks to me like it's just a way to include even more repo packages that will be outdated when you install them. Not very useful.
        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by evil_Tak ( 964978 )

          I would hope that Ubuntu will be going DVD one of these days soon

          Yes, that would be great [anl.gov].

      • by AusIV ( 950840 )
        The impression I got was that they're shipping things for which the source is available, not that they're only shipping source. You'll still download a ready-to-burn ISO, but there won't be anything on it you couldn't easily find the source to.
    • I don't mean to troll but the "truly free distro" as you describe it doesn't sound very wonderful to me. I'm not quite the average consumer, but 90% of the things I use my PC for are non-free by your definition. You won't see any mass-adoption unless the free distro could provide the same or better functionality and be user-friendly. Unfortunately, I don't really see that happening unless current trends change drastically. This is probably why Ubuntu is moving in the opposite direction from "completely free
      • To me, "truly free" sounds nice philosophically but not practically.

        You haven't said anything that is insightful or surprising to anyone with two neurons to rub together. Ubuntu isn't going to drop the normal Ubuntu distribution. They're simply also making a truly free distribution to satisfy those people who demand such a thing. At some point in the future at which the normal distribution does not outshine the Free-as-in-speech distribution, there will be no need for the nonfree. But until that day - and I suspect it will be a painfully long time coming - it's wonderful (IMO) that they are taking both approaches.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by disasm ( 973689 )
        yes, but the time to rip things out without adding things in isn't that significant, and if it gets ubuntu's criticizers off of attacking them for not being free, as well as attracts them to the distro, it can only help, and it doesn't hinder the vanilla ubuntu users any. Sam
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      All he says about Microsoft is that they make some "great applications". I can only assume he's talking about Office, or Visio or something.

      More like Visual Studio
      • More like Visual Studio

        Visual Studio is a gigantic pile of crap known to blow up on a regular basis. And its companion, visual sourcesafe, is widely considered to be absolutely the worst SCMS around.

        If he's talking about Visual Studio, then I don't find him to be very credible any more...

        Inline autocompletion of functions and methods is neato, but it's not worth the other kinds of pain provided (nor is Visual Studio the only place to get it.)

        • Visual SourceSafe isn't what Microsoft want you to use anymore. They now sell Team Foundation Server, which is not related to VSS.

          For me, Subversion with VisualSVN (for VS.NET integration) and TortoiseSVN (for Explorer integration) is just about nirvana.
        • by Cyberax ( 705495 )
          Have you tried VisualAssist for Visual Studio?

          It's THE best autocompletion/intellisense engine for C++. Nothing even comes close.
      • Yuck. If you want an IDE that draws the outlines of methods and you fill them in, use Eclipse. We don't need .NET or VB. They're rather sucky.
  • That photo (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jeevesbond ( 1066726 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @03:21PM (#18772601) Homepage

    Linux is great, I use Ubuntu, but that is one funny photo. It's like he's posing for a catalogue or something. Or maybe: 'Shuttleworth, for men. The new Open fragrance from Mark Shuttleworth'

    A review by Richard Stallman said: 'It smells like GNU piss, and did nothing to cover up my body odour!'

    /ontopic

    His comments on Beryl/Compiz are quite telling. That's a fork that should never have happened. Also interesting are snippets about Canonical customers (from the article):

    We have installations of several 100.000 machines in spain, obviously you know that Google uses Ubuntu on all of their developer desktops.

    [...]

    As an example, Lufthansa has all of there pilots use Ubuntu on their Laptops, cause they are constantly in different hotels using the WIFI-system and they don't want to get spyware and viruses.

    [...]

    I'm extremely happy with our relationship with Sun. It's been very good for us, it's been the first major server vendor to adopt and embrace Ubuntu. So that's given us entry to customers that we wouldn't have otherwise had access to.

    [...]

    derStandard.at: Initially the development of Ubuntu was mostly financed by your private funds, is this still the same or is this already changing?

    Mark Shuttleworth: Well, it's changing, but it's not completely changed. Ubuntu still does depend on continued funding from me.

    [...]

    derStandard.at: But are there really big customers that are paying for your support?

    Mark Shuttleworth: Yes of course. There are some large organizations who use Ubuntu

    We all like to think that Ubuntu costs Shuttleworth a fortune but they're obviously meeting with some success. This is something I've worried about before: what happens when Shuttleworths' money runs out? Seems that we needn't worry for much longer. :)

    • We all like to think that Ubuntu costs Shuttleworth a fortune


      No, I'd like to think that people who sincerely and significantly contribute to OSS and the community in general meet with success.

      Whether that is happening is another story.

    • "what happens when Shuttleworths' money runs out?"

      Because it's Free Software - nothing happens if/when money runs out. All the progress has been put back into the community, so anyone can pick up the baton. _That_ is the fantastic thing about Free Software!! :-)
      • Some of what Ubuntu Ubuntu (instead of, say, Debian) is not the software, and is not free or Free. For a quick example: Shipit. Is there any meaningful way in which Shipit could be Free? It is most certainly not free (to Shuttleworth), nor will it be.
  • In terms of patches sent upstream, work on the kernel, etc?
    • If Ubuntu makes it easier for more people to adopt Linux, how much more development might eventually result?

      Mind you, I use Linux even though I've never contributed to the kernel, and probably never will. I don't think that makes me a bad person, nor do I see why Shuttleworth or the Ubuntu project should be held to a different standard.
    • Got Ubuntu? Then you're halfway to the answer.

      Open your package manager; the one through System, but not the Add/Remove item! (the one with the big list, no icons)

      Make sure to select All packages and scan the list; find every package that lists a Latest Version ending with '-ubuntu XX'.

      Each of those packages has the Ubuntu team's fingerprints on it, and those changes are fed back to the community. (upstream patches; whether upstream uses them or not)

      I'm sure there's some clever shell-command that w

      • Each of those packages has the Ubuntu team's fingerprints on it
        remember though those "fingerprints" may be as small as adding a patch for integration with thier propietry launchpad system (and so not much use for anyone else) or other little ubuntu specific tweaks that are of no use to upstream.

  • "The time for mass consumer sales of Linux on the desktop has not yet come."

    No. It's past.

    Linux missed the window. 2003-2004 was when Linux on the desktop might have made it. WalMart, Dell, and HP all had supported Linux offerings. Microsoft XP was stale and buggy, while Longhorn/Vista was stalled. Firefox worked great, OpenOffice worked OK, and things looked good for desktop Linux. That was the big opportunity.

    The window closed when playing DRM-protected video content on PCs became important to

    • I think that is correct; however the other side of the coin is there is still opportunity for Linux on the business desktop. Businesses won't want their employees watching YouTube on company time; the lack of video codecs on Linux may prove to be a selling point. It would be interesting to know what the proportion of PC sales is between sales to the home user and sales to businesses.
    • by camcorder ( 759720 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @04:03PM (#18773269)
      Fluendo [fluendo.com] is developing/selling (has to sell them due to royalties) MS codecs for Linux. Also they are working on legal DVD player. Morever gstreamer has DRM stack in it, for HD/BlueRay protection schemes. If any distribution put money to pay for licence fees for codecs, they can release those codecs bundled. There's nothing to stop them, however nobody would like to use DRM unless it's enforced, and with a typical Linux distribution you can't enforce that.

      In past it was not possible for computer manufacturers to offer Linux because they were not enough consumers to choose Linux over Windows and Windows might charge them with higher oem licenses. However today they see that people would like to buy pre-installed Linux boxes, and computer manufacturers yet see that they can support them as well. Dell will soon bundle his own build of Fedora if I'm not mistaken. Maybe they will offer other distros as well. Then we'll see if Linux is already lost, or you're talking non-sense.
      • Given that there's an infinite (unproven; but certainly large) number of source programs that will compile to any given binary, there's the ghost of a possibility of issuing source code that could be compiled on any architecture -- yet wouldn't make any more sense to anyone trying to understand or modify it than a binary. That would make it truly cross-platform (meaning it would be for all Linux, not just x86 Linux)* and meet the letter, if not the spirit (the phrase "ride a coach and horses through"
    • Perhaps one (arguably) good opportunity for the platform has passed. Speaking as somebody who works with a dual-boot Vista / Gentoo system, I can say from personal experience that if Microsoft keeps taking their operating system in its current direction (very shiny, DOG slow in comparison) Linux might find itself with a good many more such opportunities in the future. To be perfectly honest, I'm finding that with Linux it's actually easier to accomplish most tasks that are more complex than, say, word processing because the operating system stays the hell out of my way, unlike Vista. I, for one, see good things in Linux's future.
      • by Animats ( 122034 )

        Perhaps one (arguably) good opportunity for the platform has passed.

        UNIX/Linux on the desktop has failed to go mainstream so many times now. In the early 1980s there was an AT&T PC that ran UNIX. That went nowhere. The whole UNIX workstation industry has come and gone. (If you'd like a high-end SGI or Sun workstation, Wierd Stuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, California has a pile of them at low, low prices. Hurry before they rust.) Linux laptops are no longer available from any major vendor, and t

      • very shiny, DOG slow in comparison

        I use Vista on three systems.

        My Media Center box has 768M of memory, a P4 Northwood 2.66GHz, and a GeForce 6200. It's not fast (certainly much slower than XP or GNOME), but it's usable. I used to use XP on this box, but when bad memory ended up corrupting the disk (test your memory BEFORE you move defrag file on the disk), I didn't really feel like digging around for a floppy drive to load the SATA drivers.
        My notebook has 1.25GB of memory, a Pentium-M "Dothan" 1.73GHz, and

  • "Great Microsoft applications" or "Microsoft applications that grate"
  • Great interview. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by n1hilist ( 997601 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @03:56PM (#18773153)
    What I enjoy about Mark's comments int he inteview (and in others) is that he tends to be genuine, calm and honest in his talkings, and uses very few corporate buzzwords. Maybe that's because he rolls his own distros, cigarettes and whatnot, but it's refreshing to see an important IT headcheese soundling like you're talking to him as a person and not a bot.

    Here's wishing Ubuntu a long, prosperous future! \ \\//
  • Ch-ch-ch-changes (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rinkjustice ( 24156 ) <rinkjustice&NO_SPAMrocketmail,com> on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @05:17PM (#18774583) Homepage Journal
    I'm a guy whose been using Linux since Red hat 5.1 and who webmastered a fairly popular Linux website pre-dotcom bubble era to evangelize Linux. I see how the good reputation of Ubuntu is spreading quickly nowadays, moreso than Red Hat has ever achieved. Mark Shuttleworth is making a positive difference in this world by funding Ubuntu, and I see how Linux is really being seriously considered by pedestrian users who thought Microsoft was their only option.

    Naysayers and unbelievers be warned. Shuttleworth is onto something with Ubuntu. To steal a quote from Isaiah in the Old Testament: "Those who mock will mourn"!
  • "Not Ready?" Ha! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by twitter ( 104583 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @05:26PM (#18774721) Homepage Journal

    He did not say Ubunto was not ready for the desktop, he said the market was not ready for Ubunto!:

    I certainly would not push the large IT companies to put Linux on consumer PCs, because I understand that in their business, the cost of a user accidentally getting Linux, thinking that they get cheap Windows would be a problem for the companies selling the computers. So I don't think it is really ready yet for mass consumer sales of Linux on desktop.

    This is not a quality or ease of use issue, it's one of familiarity. Here's what he thinks of the "ready" issue:

    So there are lots of places where Ubuntu is relevant for ordinary users. But not everywhere, I absolutely would agree to that. But it's certainly good enough for me and I'm a pretty demanding user.

    In other words, it's ready. There's a big difference between "eating your own dog food" and using something that's good enough for your own demands. It should be obvious where Mark sits.

    There were lots of nice material in this interview and it's too bad the submitter had to focus on the bogus issue above. That Google uses Ubunto for all of their developer desktops is news to me. Other traction, like airline pilots using Ubunto for security reasons is great to hear about. Mark's goals, particularly his desire to promote free software are also news to me because I have not paid attention. This is all good news.

  • by triso ( 67491 ) on Tuesday April 17, 2007 @07:27PM (#18776193) Homepage
    Linux Advertisement 1.

    INT - MARY'S HOME OFFICE.
    [Mary is seen banging her hand down on her desk]
    MARY:
    Damn!
    [John comes into the picture]
    JOHN:
    Hey Mary, what's wrong?
    [In a frustrated voice]
    MARY:
    My computer is as slow as molasses...
    and all those pop-ups...
    I can't get any work done.
    JOHN:
    That's because you're using Windows XP and Internet Explorer.
    [Intrigued, Mary turns to John and looks into his eyes]
    MARY:
    Go on.
    JOHN:
    I use Linux and I'm never going back. No more blue-screens-of-death, re-boots, re-installs, pop-ups, virus attacks and no more spy-ware.
    MARY:
    But I'm not a geek.
    JOHN:
    Linux isn't just for geeks anymore and it's free. You can share it with your friends, too.
    MARY:
    Sounds great. How do I get copy?
    JOHN:
    I'll bring the disks and install it for you on Saturday.
    [Mary is now elated]
    MARY:
    Sounds like a plan. Can I go down on you?
    JOHN:
    Sure!
    [Fade to black]
    VOICE OVER:
    Linux...Look for the Penguin.
    SFX: Zipper opening
    MARY:
    Oh John, I never knew.
    SFX: Slurping sounds.

  • The interviewer asks some very good questions about the weak areas in Ubuntu-Canonical's business strategy and Shuttleworth has to dodge many questions and hide behind half-truths, handwaving and his usual marketing gobbledygook.

    Ubuntu allegedly has a "policy of not doing our own software development, but only packaging what others have developed" [netsplit.com] -- with the few rare exceptions like the Upstart init system. Ubuntu-Canonical doesn't hire any top developers to do upstream development like some other commer

Time is the most valuable thing a man can spend. -- Theophrastus

Working...