Why Dell Won't Offer Linux On Its PCs 628
derrida sends us to an article in the Guardian by Jack Schofield explaining why he believes Dell won't offer Linux on its PCs. In the end he suggests that those lobbying Dell for such a solution go out and put together a company and offer one themselves. Quoting: "The most obvious [problem] is deciding which version of Linux to offer. There are more than 100 distros, and everybody seems to want a different one — or the same one with a different desktop, or whatever. It costs Dell a small fortune to offer an operating system... so the lack of a standard is a real killer. The less obvious problem is the very high cost of Linux support, especially when selling cheap PCs to naive users who don't RTFM... and wouldn't understand a Linux manual if they tried. And there's so much of it! Saying 'Linux is just a kernel, so that's all we support' isn't going to work, but where in the great sprawling heap of GNU/Linux code do you draw the line?"
Stop it! (Score:3, Insightful)
The answer's pretty simple (Score:5, Informative)
Basically - Dell don't offer it because - and I have to be careful here- Dell get a volume discount on the Windows licenses they preinstall. If they start to offer Linux, they'll fall into a lower discount level on Windows and suddenly be uncompetitive in the crucial Windows market.
My experience (in a slightly different sector) of such deals is that they always coincidentally have break points remarkably close to what happens when the reseller starts dealing with a competitor of the dominant vendor. Of course, MS cannot charge Dell more for Windows just because Dell happens to ship some Linux machines, but it can double the price of Windows if Dell falls below a certain sale volume - which they can vary any time they like.
The solution? Manufacturers could [be forced to] [by France?] publish the embedded cost of software which ships with each machine so MS shenanigans could be spotted, but I'm sure plenty of fellow readers will point out the impracticality of that. The alternative is whistle blowers...
Re:The answer's pretty simple (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, because it's absolutely [linspire.com] impossible [ibm.com] to acquire [dell.com] a PC without Windows [hp.com] these days.
Maybe nobody wants to mass market them because they're *gasp* not in demand! Shame on them for not basing their business decisions on your personal ideology. I mean, really...
=Smidge=
Re:The answer's pretty simple (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The answer's pretty simple (Score:5, Informative)
This isn't about demand or ideology. This is about shady business practices that, as a practical matter, guarantee that most people won't buy a pre-built PC without paying Microsoft. Do you really think that someone with a Windows2000 install disk from their last PC wouldn't have been perfectly happy to use that on their new PC if the new PC were $100 cheaper? This isn't demand for Windows - hang out in a Best Buy for a while and listen to what gets asked of the computer salesmen - people don't even know that Macs don't come with Windows. My wife can't even tell you when she is on a Windows vs. a Macintosh computer. I just helped a friend set up his Vista notebook, and he doesn't understand that it is not XP (though he does now after buying some incompatible peripherals and software).
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Let's look at this from a business point of view.
1) Offer Windows as the de-facto OS.
1a) Easy-as-pie mass cloning of software to all machines: one size fits all. (Also simplifies inventory)
1b) Virtually no support required. OS problems get differred to Microsoft.
1c) H
Re:The answer's pretty simple (Score:5, Informative)
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I AM tired of hearing sophomoric arguments from people who aren't in business themselves - including the idiot who wrote this article.
The variety of Linux distros is utterly irrelevant to anybody, including Dell. If Dell wants to sell Linux, they will deal with one of the top two or three Linux companies and that's it. It's an insignifant issue in all other respects. If there went fifty versions of Windows, does anybody expect Dell would try to support them all? Hardly - they would turn that whole thing bac
Re:Stop it! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why it is *stupid as *hell for 90% of users to spend more than $400 on a computer and more than $0 on the software.
So how come the average price of a desktop is $700. "Vista-capable" ones probably average over $1000. Add $200 for MS software and you've got *almost *all of the market paying three times what any sensible person would pay.
Bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
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His suggestion of starting a company is simply to highlight that there is A LOT of effort involved and that even a company like Dell likely can't see much business benefit in trying to go down this road. If Dell cannot do it with their cookie-cutter approach to most everything, then a completely different approach is needed and the author is suggesting that the collective figure that part out.
And by "cannot do it", I mean "cannot come
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You aren't competing with the "large number of major OEM computer manufacturers",
just those few that build to order and install linux. And support linux.
He's identified an opportunity for linux people to put their $$ where their
mouth is - invest in creating a company that does *exactly* what they want Dell
to do.
Any takers? Anyone?
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What people want are a large computer firm to sell name brand computers with Linux, not generic boxen. (I don't know why though -- I bought my last workstation from Penguin and it friggen rocks.)
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
But there are no companies that are selling support to a Linux distro on Dells. Here's how it plays out, in familiar slashdot formatting:
1: Pick several models of Dells
2: Pick your favorite Linux distro and get make an image tweaked for models in step 1
3: Sell support contracts for said install image to others whose favorite distro is the same as your
4: Maybe make a little profit but more likely spend half your time explaining why you picked distro X instead of Y and the other half of the time trying to figure out what when wrong when the users heavily modified and recompiled your carefully tweaked image in bizarre ways without admitting to doing so when they call for support.
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Good point (Score:4, Insightful)
Many MS users don't know what a driver is or where to find one, what do they do when their new printer doesn't come with linux-compatible drivers?
He brings up a good point with the difficulties of providing tech support. Maybe Dell should offer computers with blank drives and let the buyer select a distro cd to ship with it, with the explicit instruction that tech support relating to software issues won't be availible.
Re:Good point (Score:4, Interesting)
My Ubuntu system tells me when updates and fixes are available, and I just click yes to install them. Everything works on my system, nothing has ever broken. When I run across something I want to try out, I install it with Synaptic.. couldn't be easier. When I decided a year ago that I wanted a new printer I researched the models I was interested in on Google to see what problems there were with Linux (was running Debian at the time). I'm not saying it was a snap to get the printer working, but I figured it out. So yes I'll give you the printer thing, but not "nightmare to maintain".
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I won't argue that do that would be a bad business decision; but, on the other hand, if Dell does have the demand for it (which there seems to be) then the
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He ignores the issue that Linux has been much more stable and problem free than Windows. I have been able as a novice to fix a couple items myself on linux such as losing the administrator privilages in Ubuntu. Fixed it with a Hosts file edit. The answer was found on Google. All my hardware works "out of the box" except a couple Windows only items such as the Dell all in one printer and a HP flatbed scanner.
On the other hand thing
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Sure, *you* think fixing things in Linux is easy... but you also fixed it by editing the Hosts file. Do you know any average computer users (Mac, Windows, or Linux if there are any average users on Linux) that even know what the Hosts file is or how to edit it? An "easy" fix for this crowd would be, say, "I threw iTunes in the trash and then used Apple Software Updater to download a new copy of iTunes." Anything mo
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So how do you explain all the pre-GUI stuff such as DOS? That seemed to do quite will in the mass market.
More important is trying to find proper documentation on the beast called the Windows Registery. I would rather fix a hosts file than try to fix the
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Minimum cost? With Windows moving from an install CD to a manufacture supplied disk image CD, the cost of downtime and rebuilding is high. Take an early XP install for example. How long does it take to reinstall, install all the patches, install all the drivers for the newer printers, PDAs, Cameras, AV, restore system prefrences including e-mail accounts, bookmarks, calandars, and settings for aftermarket software p
This has been answered many times (Score:5, Insightful)
The most obvious [problem] is deciding which version of Linux to offer. There are more than 100 distros, and everybody seems to want a different one -- or the same one with a different desktop, or whatever.
This has been answered many times. The people who know enough to know that they want a different distro can figure out how to get it on there. Therefore, they can pick a noob-friendly distro (like Fedora or Ubuntu), thereby guaranteeing the existence of drivers for the hardware. The rest of us who want to be all l33t and install Debian, Gentoo or even Linux From Scratch can figure it out ourselves.
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The whole purpose behind Linux on a Dell would be to ensure that all hardware has an easily available Linux driver.
They could install their own Dell distro for all I care. I'll buy -that- only 'cause all their hardware would work under Linux, AND, I wouldn't have to pay for Windows.
I'd imagine most folks who want Linux on a Dell box have the same motives.
In fact, if they care for support, just offer those configurations without -software- support. Just hardware.
FreeBSD (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:FreeBSD (Score:5, Interesting)
The BSDs are all different operating systems, with diferent designs, different objectives, different philosophies, differet kernels, different stregths and weakness and different purposes. The diference between on BSD and another is far greater than say ditro X ad distro Y, where asidefrom the package manager and default packageset, its the samething under the hood. Take FreeBSD vs. OS X for example. They're indeed both BSDs, but they'recompletely different OSes, not distributions of BSD4.4.
Back to the point:
Ruling out OS X, FreeBSD is the only BSD geared explicitly to desktop/workstation/server use, as is developed primarily on x86. The rest focus on uber-specialized roles (OpenBSD = paranoid security, netBSD = it'll run on anything under the sun, but since they only need it to run on Dells, who cares?, MicroBSD/PicoBSD = embeded devices and boot floppies, OpenDarwin isn't developed anymore, MirOS/PCBSD/DesktopBSD are all FreeBSD spinoffs, and still in their early infancy, e.g. also ruled out).
Ergo, GF is right. FreeBSD does solve the "distribution sprawl", since its the only one built for the role in question.
Seems to make sense to a degree. (Score:5, Interesting)
However, while slightly OT... I wouldn't want to be the IT manager at a company that I allowed everyone in a 10,000 person company to decide what distro and software they wanted to run. I mean if someone has a problem with something... supporting (as the acticle says) 100+ different distros, different kernel versions, different package/install systems, different windowing systems... hell even different text editors. It would be HELL for an IT department to support, so i could see how Dell would have a similar issue. Even simple things would become nightmares to support. Even asking the users what version they are using would confuse many.
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Settle on one distro (Score:5, Interesting)
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Especially if (as the writer says) a non-crapware PC from Dell will actually cost more - because then it would still be cheaper for someone to buy a Windows Dell and then install their favourite Linux distribution.
Finally - the last point the
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It's not about the number of distributions (Score:3, Insightful)
software support (Score:2)
Existing Open Source Series? (Score:5, Interesting)
What's wrong with the existing open source [dell.com] series from Dell, provided there is a genuine reduction in price for the absence of MS software?
If Dell is hesitant about offering Linux what the Free Software community forming a third party company and approaching Dell with a proposal that Dell simply contract the entire Linux support operation out to them?
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There was that article a while back about people using the EULA clause that required OEMs to refund the money if the user didn't agree to the EULA, the Dell refund was for $53. This would indicate that Dell has a fairly good deal with Microsoft to get Windows at a reduced price (This itself might be a reason for not shipping Linux, as MS could start charging full price again as a retaliation).
The other thing is that Dell c
Support (Score:4, Informative)
Calling Mr. Obvious.... Dell on line one (Score:5, Interesting)
In the end, they won't have to do the image build nor support it. Just let the Linux distro folks support it.
Example: The Ubuntu group could build the image for Dell to put on each line of machines they want to sell with Ubuntu Linux. The Ubuntu group provides software/configuration support, and Dell supports the hardware. Once the Ubuntu group provides a pre-built image, Dell doesn't have much left to do but burn it on the machine and ship.
Sure, there is a bit more to it, but that's it in a nutshell, and it is about open source support. Dell gets to sell the hardware, the OSS community supports the software, and everyone is happy. Current support for Linux comes from the OSS community anyway. Dell is just trying to limit their exposure when they shouldn't even try to expose themselves to support issues. Simply sell the machine as OSS supported software.
When it comes down to hardware issues, I'm certain that each Linux distro group will support tools to determine that it is hardware vs. software. Once that is done there is no reason not to ship boxes with Linux installed. Dell doesn't have to choose which distro to suppport. Let each distro sign up and if they don't, don't sell boxes with that distro installed.
To me it seems just too simple to be this difficult.
Pick one and outsource the support (Score:2, Interesting)
Its not about supporting distros, stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Then Toyota showed up, and made cars that stopped breaking down. Gradually, nobody was hyper-opinionated about the internals of cars, till we get to the point today where nobody but Toyota dealership can actually understand the internals.
Same with Linux distros. We've been so starved of turnkey solutions for so long, that we're all hyper knowedgable distro experts! Just like the early auto operator/mechanics. Of course these people are going to have fine-grained and diverse favorites.
When someone gets a new laptop and figures out that its "good enough", they'll stop worrying that it doesn't have Slack (or whathaveyou), and just appreciate its "good enough"ness. This can't happen from the demand side, the supply side has to lead the way. Then the userbase of Linux will change. Then we'll start to complain bitterly. Remember when AOL happened and the Internet started to suck? That fate awaits Linux too.
______
And anywho, nobody's asking them to support every possible distribution for their computers. They're asking for two things:
1) support SOME distro, it doesn't matter what it is
2) open source any hardware wierdness you control, stuff like sleep/suspend, software volume control buttons, and whatnot. Just put that stuff out there and all the big distros will automatically move to support you. That's what distros do.
We're not asking, say, Toshiba to create a huge linux compile farm and put out Toshutils for every distro. Just expose the API, create a reference implementation, and let the community do the rest.
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Bad Assumptions (Score:2)
While this might seem like a proble to tha average Slashdot geek who is used to demanding the ability to "roll their own" and so on, these are not the people that Dell would be selling to. Dell would be targeting people that want to unpack the box, plug it in and boot it up and get straight away to surfing the net and running some office applications, maybe
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The people bitching at Dell for these Linux desktops are not dear old mom & pop who just want a cheap, easy to use system. It's the Linux power users w
So Windows is easy, then? (Score:2, Insightful)
I've dealt with so many naive Windows users who couldn't (or don't know how) to install the most basic of Virus/Spyware protection, or how fix the most basic of issues.
I guess it's a matter of the lesser of two evils. Dell would rather help "naive" Windows users then perhaps open the door to something more secure and support "naive" users there instead.
The guys who run Slashdot tried that. Remember? (Score:2)
Remember VA Linux? They were going to make Linux PCs. Biggest IPO first-day runup in history. Then the stock declined 98% from the peak. Nobody is going to get funding for that idea for a while.
The more likely player is Lenovo. They're not as beholden to Microsoft as Dell is, they can offer corporate support through IBM, and they've sold Linux laptops outside the US.
tough decisions (Score:2)
Bart does something to piss off a large crowd. They start chasing him, our for vengeance. A car pulls to to a screeching stop in front of Bart and a well dressed man offers Bart a get-away ride.
Bart says quickly, "angry mod"
I can just imagine execs at Dell
Copout Distro (Score:2)
If they did th
Dell doesn't provide Windows support (Score:4, Insightful)
So how is this different from supporting Linux? All they have to do is create a knowledgeable support staff, good knowledge base and they'll have pretty much the same thing they have for Windows. It's really not that hard once they make the decision as to what distro they are going to support, strike a deal with the distro's maintainers, and maybe even farm out the support to the distros maintainers or a third party. Pretty simple when you think about it.
mistitled (Score:2)
do they get paid to *not* support linux? (Score:2)
Acer from Walmart (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Acer from Walmart (Score:4, Informative)
http://global.acer.com/support/download.htm [acer.com]
sell without operating system (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:sell without operating system (Score:4, Informative)
If so, do something interesting. (Score:2)
Why Won't It Work? (Score:5, Interesting)
I suspect the problem is economic.
For starters I bet people demanding linux are far more willing to voice demands than they are to put up money. I bet tons of the people who asked dell to offer a linux PC wouldn't really buy one. They might like linux but when it comes time to buy a new computer they decide to dull boot and realize it's cheaper just to buy the computer preloaded with windows. Even if this isn't the case the possibility that linux advocates make more noise than they would buy computers is something Dell must consider.
Secondly Dell doesn't have apps to sell people who buy linux only boxes printer ink and all sorts of other high margin items. If anything the problem is they realize the people who buy linux boxes wouldn't buy extended support, at least not the sort of support it was economical to offer. Dell probably has a nearly zero margin on the basic PC and makes up their money on the extras. Why bother selling a linux PC if the purchasers are smart enough not to buy any of the high margin extras?
Finally there is the concern of pissing off MS. Whatever anti-trust rulings MS is constrained by why risk pissing them off unless it would bring you a high margin business?
The issue isn't offering support it is making money!
kernel compatibility is all that matters (Score:4, Interesting)
NO (absolutely none what-so-ever) ATI cards unless ATI decides to at least produce a binary driver that works (prefereably source, but at the very least, something that actually works as advertised and works in linux, not just for Toms hardware under the most fully patched version of WinXP)
NO (absolutely none what-so-ever) Phoenix BIOS unless they're willing to release every single last detail about ACPI, etc. to the kernel devs ... ditto for any other BIOS manufacturer.
Basically if Dell could do that, it wouldn't matter what distro they put on (I said Ubuntu because it's nice and flashy and is free and has left most of the libraries reasonably unmollested, unlike some distros ... I use Slackware myself)
This much should not be hard for a company with resources like Dell or Gateway or Toshiba to pull off ...
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The demand isn't really there (Score:4, Insightful)
I've been there done that. Had an Amiga, used Linux and so forth at one time or another. I remember with the Amiga how many of us wrote letters to Software, Etc. or other companies begging them to support our computers. And then the demand never materialized as we claimed it would. So eventually, the Amiga was dropped to the dustbin of history. After buying a PC, I came to realize that the Amiga really wasn't "better", it was simply different. advanced in some ways, behind in others.
The Linux "demand" is similar. It's largely just astroturfing, rather than real demand from customers. It's people from
I'm fairly certainly Dell understands this. They've been around a long time. At one time they even release their own version of System V which was highly regarded in the industry. So they're not unfamiliar with Unix. They've also at various times offered machines without operating systems, or even with Linux.
But the demand wasn't there, which is why they keep falling back to the position they are in, and why despite freeping their poll they are unlikely to listen to it. Maybe they will, and if they do, you'd better start buying your machines from Dell to backup your poll answers.
As for open source advocates starting up their own company to sell machines. It's been tried. It was called VA Linux. They changed their name, abandoned selling computers and now run sourceforge.
Distro problem, eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The most obvious [problem] is deciding which version of Linux to offer. There are more than 100 distros, and everybody seems to want a different one -- or the same one with a different desktop, or whatever...
There is a horribly easy solution for this "problem": Support only one major distro, yet make sure that all hardware included with the PC is compatible with Linux. Slap a "Linux Certified" sticker on the damn thing and quite a few people will buy it. If they're more advanced, then they'll appreciate the fact that when they install their favorite distro instead of whatever the PC comes with, they won't have to hunt down a forum thread that points to an obscure hardware driver that is still in alpha, because they know that the hardware will "Just Work (tm)." If they're new to computers, or are the "A computer is an appliance" type, they won't have any need to switch from the supplied distro to anything else in the first place. It's a win win situation.
Either this guy didn't think his objections through very well, or he is just spouting FUD and hoping people take it at face value.
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Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope parent is merely a troll (Grandma + config file is rapidly turning into a troll meme) but I'll bite. 1998 called; they want their lack of GUI configuration tools back.
On my Ubuntu box, I have had to manually edit configuration files to do two things:
- Install and configure beta software
- Install and configure Apache + MediaWiki
- Configure Vi
The one other type of config file I've had to edit regularly in the recent past are xorg.conf files. A computer that comes with Linux preinstalled would never need xorg.conf twiddlery; reconfiguring it when you upgrade your graphics cards isn't a particularly difficult thing to do (If you're the sort of person who is likely to upgrade your own hardware, then you can do it).The real reason Dell won't offer Linux PCs is plainly that it's not a good deal for them. It would mean more expensive Windows licenses, and it would mean less money for them from all the people paying them to bundle crapware with their boxes. The only way to have good, high-quality Linux PCs is to have an OEM willing to sell nothing but Linux boxes. Preferably one willing to sell well-designed, high-end computers and laptops with fully compatible hardware and pre-installed, thoroughly tested desktop environments and proprietary format support. Hopefully, packaged with a nice manual and long-term tech support for a particular set of "supported" packages too (Like Canonical does with Ubuntu).
Hey, I can dream.
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless that user wants to use a graphic tablet, a second mouse with some additional buttons, a different refresh rate for his monitor, a multi-monitor setup or a ton of other things. There is a lot of things that one can do with GUI tools in Linux, but I still have to visit xorg.conf *far* more often then I would like. And unless there one day comes a proper GUI configuration tool for said file that won't change, doing configuration changes without restarting Xorg would be a nice thing to have. Beside the lack of a standard cross distribution package format xorg.conf is among the ugliest show stopper issues for Linux on the desktop.
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Insightful)
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I think Ubuntu would work quite well for the average "grandma" user...setting up simple things is very easy, and there's even an update reminder thing like Windows and OSX so you don't fall behind on updates.
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The real reason Dell won't offer Linux PCs is because the people who use Linux would prefer to build their own computer. Why duplicate the infrastructure?
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Insightful)
Bzzt, wrong answer.
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
If you want Linux to be mainstream-friendly, one of the absolute must-haves is that the user must NEVER EVER EVER, any any circumstances, have to either (1) edit a text config file by hand, or (2) use the command line.
No exceptions, no "most of the time" situation, no "power users only" weasel words. Config files and command lines are OK for developers, but not for mainstream users -- end of story.
I'll get flamed for it, but I speak the truth.
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But sometimes you have to do that under Windows too. Like editing %WINDIR%\System32\Dr
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want Windows to be user-friendly, one of the absolute must-haves is that the user must NEVER NEVER NEVER, under any circumstances:
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By comparison , I've been using Linux since '99. I have edited more config files than I could hope to count. I had to edit config files on three occasions while setting up the PC I'm typing this on. In addition, I have three consumer d
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No exceptions, no "most of the time" situation, no "power users only" weasel words. Config files and command lines are OK for developers, but not for mainstream users -- end of story.[/i]
Hey buddy, please don't take what I'm about to say personally; it's not directed at you, more at the sta
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If people start taking their Linux PCs to shops to have them fixed, the "experts" will learn how to deal with linux.
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I've seen lots of Windows boards like that, though. And lots of Xbox/game sites like that.
Strange.
and Ubuntu's user-friendly? (Score:4, Insightful)
aptitude install nvidia
OK, I could have used a GUI shell, but why make more work for myself?
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Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Interesting)
A better example is what happened when I migrated my parents to Red Hat Linux 6.1 (back in 1999). They had been using Windows 95 at the time. I installed it, configured it, made sure everything they needed was accessible, and set it up next to their Windows system. The tech support calls practically stopped, and they started using the Linux system more than their Windows system.
Linux isn't hard to use. There are things people are not used to ("How come Comet Cursors doesn't work?") bit in general, non-techies I know who have made the jump are fairly unlikely to go back.
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Yes, I support both.
"The first time a technician has to explain to grandma how to manually edit a
Well, I've built Linux boxes for people and installed and c
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Insightful)
Grandma is fifty, and working full time. Grandma is seventy, a senior volunteer at the local library or community hospital. Grandma can't be ignored.
She is ignored. (Score:5, Insightful)
Some folks around here seem to think that Windows is *naturally* easy.
I have got news for you guys, it isn't. But this is masked by the myriad of people mildly familiar with it.
Grandmas that are introduced to Linux as their first computing experienc (hi mum!) can cope perfectly well with the tool of the penguin, and people suggesting otherwise are patronizing ageists.
Re:She is ignored. (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that MSDOS and Windows have been around for over twenty-five years. It becomes harder and harder to find the virgin with no knowledge of the Windows PC.
I have made one call to Dell technical support in five years.
I can't remember the last time I opened the registry. I have found no compelling reason to re-install Windows XP. The antivirus and firewall package is provided by my ISP and is more or less jargon free.
Re:Harder and harder? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not too sure your conclusion nesseceraily follows from your evidence. It could be easy to set up a secure Windows machine, but people might still not do it, for all kinds of reasons. Perhaps they are ignorant of the dangers posed, perhaps they just can't be bothered (I think ignorance is the most likely, by the way).
All I ever did to secure my windows machines was install Zone Alarm. It has a lovely, brightly coloured, non intimidating installation dialog, lets you choose your experience level, uses a minimum of jargon and automatically configures itself to allow standard stuff through (IE, Firefox, etc). It's as simple as anything I have ever installed.
In any case, any windows PC you buy nowadays ships with SP2, and will have a firewall turned on by default. Really, most malware is installed by end users intentionally, although not knowingly, when they download and install toolbars, smilies, P2P clients and the like. It is virtually impossible for the OS to protect the end user from this sort of thing, and Linux is no different in this regard.
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Insightful)
My father is 76, he was programming back in 1965 on the BMEWS systems
Just because some of you have ignoramusses for parents and grandparents does not mean all parents and grandparents are clueless when it comes to IT...
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Informative)
As far as Windows and daylight savings goes, XP/2003 boxes were all patched by standard patch-tuesday patches. For win2k it took me a grand total of 15 minutes to research it on MS's website, write (+ copy/paste) a few text files, and roll them out on the Active Directory Domain. Not really tough. There are lots of problems with Windows. Daylight savings time just wasn't a big one.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
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Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Interesting)
However, I could be way off base, so feel free to point it out if I am.
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Insightful)
Dell has also seen awesome OEM system sales for Windows.
---along with digital cameras, printers, monitors and HDTV, anything, really, that can be marketed as a Windows peripheral.
OEM Linux disappears from Walmart.com for three simple reasons:
Entry level for Vista at Walmart is a $500 Celeron laptop. Vista Premium is a $900 dual-core laptop from Toshiba.
OEM Linux doesn't significantly undercut Windows on price, doesn't sell worth a damn anyway and there is nothing to drive after-market sales. No iTunes for Linux. No Windows Home Server. No XBox 360. No HD-DVD. No Grand Theft Auto.
Tag article: microsoft (Score:2)
Not only did they slag him with Vista (he wanted XP, per my advice), they wouldn't downgrade it and it doesn't work right. He installed drivers and crap based on Dell's tech support and eventually got the system so hosed it restarted explorer (the desktop, not the whole computer) every few seconds. I was finally able to get to a system restore point (after many, many tries--it's hard to
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:4, Informative)
On Windows, patches came with the standard Tuesday updates, and all I had to do was accept installation. Ok, for boxes without outbound internet access, I actually had to copy the patches and install them manually, but that was pointy-clicky-done, with no hassle whatsoever.
On my Linux boxes, I had to install (which for my Gentoo boxes means recompile) a new version of the timezone-data package (Arthur Olson time zones), then manually copy
Then I had to repeat the whole procedure again, because a new version of timezone-data came out, because of bugs in the first one. Then I had to repeat the whole procedure YET again a third time cause the bugfix release wasn't complete. All in 2007.
Then, on Sun boxes, I had to, in addition to a system update, also install a java runtime environment update, because of course java can't use the same timezone data as the system, but has to have its own embedded implementation. And with more than one jre per system, that meant one update per jre instance.
I still prefer Linux and Unix, but it's not easier, and I bet many people forgot to update the zoneinfo files manually for chrooted daemons. Hopefully, most of them will only see odd logging timestamps. (Which in itself can be bad enough, if RIAA asks who used a DHCP IP address at a certain time between now and when the "old" DST kicked in.)
Regards,
--
*Art
Re:Ignorance is just so wonderful to see in action (Score:5, Insightful)
<ANECDOTAL>
Based on my one time calling tech support (in Bangalore, I assume), Yes, I'd be willing to say that they don't know how it's done!
</ANECDOTAL>
OK, They know how it's done (let script monkeys handle the caller), but they don't know how it's done *RIGHT*.