SCO Asks Court To Reconsider IBM's Dismissal 139
VE3OGG writes "The SCO Group — the litigation firm currently in dispute with, among many, IBM, over supposed copyright infringing code in Unix — has quietly asked the courts to reconsider IBM's request to toss the case out. SCO argued that the court's November decision was procedurally and substantially flawed and they say 'the rules of procedure do not support such a result under the circumstances of this case.' If allowed to reopen the case, the SCO Group argues, that new evidence would present itself through the deposition of several IBM programmers who had previously been interviewed."
Rats (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Rats (Score:5, Funny)
My wife's cat (ie, she had the cat for the better part of 5 years before we got married) doesn't like me all that much. She would take the cat with us when we'd visit her parents' house, and in her old bedroom she had a queen-sized waterbed, where the headboard is suspended, leaving a little "tunnel" behind the bedframe and underneath the headboard.
The cat decided that when it was time to leave, it wasn't time to leave, and got under there, dead center out of reach. Now, in having raised cats prior, I taught them early on that I was the parent, and would pick them up by the scruff of the neck to let them know who was boss. This cat didn't know that game. I quickly grabbed her by the back of the neck and pulled her out....only for her to empty her bowel and bladder on me. There have been a few more times since I've had to do this, and the result is the same.
Point is, you may win in the end, but don't underestimate their ability to claw, scratch, kick, scream, and lastly, crap and pee all over you on the way out.
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Re:Rats (Score:4, Funny)
I doubt the vacuum cleaner trick will have any effect on the SCO lawyers. But I bet the judge might be desperate enough now to try that lemon in the eye thing. As to cruelty, the only ones who suffer in the end are users who have to pay for it one way or another in higher software costs, slower development cycles and wasted hours reading of the latest antics here and there and everywhere. I guess if cruelty to the lawyers WERE to become an issue the best thing would be to just shoot them.
It would be a start.
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I wouldn't put it past Darl, but I suspect at this point the IBM lawyers are already protected by hip waders from the previous round of SCO BS.
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Perhaps she's flashing back to early kittenhood when the mother licks up the kitten's waste.
Bon Appétit.
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The first rat I caught and released in the woods.
The second rat I killed in a very excited adrenaline rushed state with the dogs barking and the rat making incredible leaps to escape but ultimately we were in a closed room.
The next couple I quickly dispatched.
Finally, I just started putting out poison up out of reach of the dogs (who really wanted to eat it- my dog looked like a drug addict smelling rat poison).
They
Asking Santa (Score:5, Funny)
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If Santa brings them that, they'll own the Kentucky Derby, and will get to charge everyone a $499 "SCOSource Off Track Betting License".
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better late than never, (Score:5, Informative)
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Christmas story all over again.. (Score:5, Funny)
Summary is somewhat misleading. (Score:5, Informative)
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This is quite confusing, but I understand that evidence, not claims, was thrown out. (?)
SCO's arguments are misleading (as usual) (Score:3, Informative)
If you take a good look at SCOG's filings, you can see that they cherry-pick those parts of the evidence and declarations that seem to support their claim, often quoting incomplete paragraphs of cont
Re:Summary is somewhat misleading. (Score:5, Interesting)
Since /. is so slow on this, it should be noted that Judge Kimball rejected the request on a technicality that they filed as a request what should be a motion. Armchair analysis seems to indicate that the rejection might be his way of saying "You really don't want to do this" to SCO. This request basically calls the judge a liar or too incompetent to understand what a de novo review is. It's like SCO is trying to get found in contempt...
Re:Summary is somewhat misleading. (Score:4, Informative)
>Why does the concept of contempt still exist in today's court system?
>Can't judges rule on what is before them and put aside their emotions?
A contempt of court citation is not based on emotions. Contempt of court
has to do with a party's disobedience of a court order or certain well-defined types of misconduct that interfere with the legal process. Such rules carry the force of law, and a contempt of court citation is, depending on the specific case, a claim of civil damage or a criminal accusation made by the court against an individual.
Courts have an inherent power to punish persons for contempt of their rules and orders, for disobedience of their process, and for disturbing them in their proceedings. The basis for this doctrine dates back as far as any of the founding principles of English Common Law.
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SCO is taking "honest mistakes" like late filings and misl
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Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not use this as an example of positive reform. Jefferson might well rise from the dead and shoot you.
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Finding the lawyer in contemp IS enforcing the rule.
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*de novo - Anew. afresh. Considering the matter anew, the same as if it had not been heard before and as if no decision previously had been rendered.
Re:Summary is mostly misleading. (Score:3, Informative)
According to both the article and Groklaw, it's not so much that Judge Kimball threw out SCO's case as it is that he affirmed Magistrate Judge Wells' order that threw out the claims that SCO couldn't or wouldn't substantiate.
There is a still a problem with the terminology in the above. Judge Wells did not throw out claims (a legal term). She did not throw out evidence. She threw out allegations of IBM wrongdoing that were inadequately substantiated. Judge Kimball affirmed the ruling.
Contrary to SCO'
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NO CLAIMS WERE DISMISSED (Score:2)
The magistrate judge threw out a number of their *evidentiary* entries, for failure to be specific. That was appealed, reviewed, and affirmed.
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IBM's reply on Groklaw (Score:5, Informative)
Incorrect (Score:3)
SCO's memorandum in support, which this belated Slashdot article is about, was filed on Dec 14th so we shouldn't expect IBM's reply to it until sometime next week.
New evidence? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:New evidence? (Score:5, Informative)
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In this interview were their lips moving? If they were then there is no reason to believe anything quoted from the interview.
Considering that one of the documents that was uncovered by IBM was an internal tSCOG e-mail to the CEO, Darl McBride, explaining how there was no evidence, its obvious they were not withholding evidence, they were withholding the truth.
Its a pretty safe bet to assume that their plan was not to withhol
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They wait until the last minute, "miss" crucial evidence and then cry foul.
1. This is a good legal strategy
2. They have no evidence, and this a convienient coverup of why it never "appeared".
Errr... (Score:4, Interesting)
Are they trying to pull a Microsoft here - annoying the judge until he says something stupid and they can get him replaced? Or are they simply dumb and hard of hearing?
Re:Errr... (Score:4, Insightful)
Critical to the case, even more so than showing infringement, is the issue of IF SCO even OWNS the copyrights on said System V UNIX code found in Linux, and IF they did (big IF) IBM has a contract with Novell (orginal owner or current owner depending on if you are SCO or IBM) that allows IBM an irrevokable right to use the System V UNIX code as they pleased since they paid for that sort of license. SCO is cooked about six different ways but whether they are roasted, boiled, BarBQ'd, broiled, fried, etc. will have to wait until after the close of discovery in the SCO vs Novell case. If the court (same judge by the way) decides in that instance SCO does NOT own the copyrights on UNIX code the case against IBM is over and IBM wins. The only issue to settle would be IBM's counterclaims, which wouldn't be worth much as SCO would be bankrupt without a win (or another infusion of cash in exchange for "IP" from the Microsoft fairy).
Ain't no System V UNIX code in Linux (Score:2)
There ain't no System V code in Linux. All of the gaping holes in SCO's case that you have outlined do exist. But the fact that there is no System V code in Linux is yet another big hole. SCO is not claiming that IBM contributed System V code to Linux. They are complaining that IBM contributed homegrown AIX/Dynix code to Li
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Keep in mind that the large infusion was Microsoft AND Sun. Blame were blame is due. OTH, that appeared to be a Scott McNeally deal. I doubt that Sun will really get behind this considering that they finally appear to be going OSS rather than trying to sit on the fence, trying to burn both sides.
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Oh, come on. (Score:2)
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Actually, only the hard core OSS guys will remember it. But of course, we will remember such things as RPC, NFS, DNS, etc. There have been lots of good things that came from Sun. While I am an old IBM/HP employee, I have nothing but respect for Sun.
What I do find funny is the shear number of people here who have claimed that Sun did not partake in all this.It is good to see tho
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Are they trying to pull a Microsoft here - annoying the judge until he says something stupid and they can get him replaced? Or are they simply dumb and hard of hearing?
It seems that way, doesn't it?
SCO's legal team seems to be way out on a limb on this one. I can't help but wonder why any of them keep at it, when at this point it is going to be a highly publicized loss that will follow each of them for the rest of their careers. The usual behavior for lawyers in this situation is to tell the client tha
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David Boies already lost a headline case (the 2000 challenge of the presidential vote in Florida), and it hasn't seemed to affect his career. Actually, for a certain type of client, the handling of the case by BS&F is a positive factor. I'll leave it up to you to figur
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SCO could use the insanity defense (Score:1)
Re:SCO could use the insanity defense (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know - What about the counterclaims? SCO may have bankrupted itself fighting this battle, but IBM still plans to rape the corpse.
Which is too bad since their twisted and distorted delusional logic would certainly support such an argument.
Fortunately, I don't think corporations can plead insanity.
I say "fortunately", because by their very raison d'etre, corporations very much exhibit antisocial PD (what people normally mean by the phrase "criminally insane"), as defined by the DSM-IV (having three or more of the following traits):
Letting corporations plead insanity would amount to giving them carte blanche to rape, pillage, murder, and burn the planet.
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Except pleading insanity doesn't get you off; it gets you locked up in mental hospital for the rest of your life, or at least until they decide you're no longer crazy and a danger to others.
I'm not sure what the corporate equivalent of locking you up in a loonie bin would be.
Re:SCO could use the insanity defense (Score:5, Funny)
800 hours of community service chained to Steve Balmer in the Pentagon putting together cheap office chairs from China that are missing parts.
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Which may be a longer sentence than regular imprisonment... There's also an argument that a verdict of "guilty, but insane" might be more appropriate in some cases.
I'm not sure what the corporate equivalent of locking you up in a loonie bin would be.
There probably isn't one, given that there isn't an equivalent of
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I'm not sure what the corporate equivalent of locking you up in a loonie bin would be.
There probably isn't one, given that there isn't an equivalent of "the slammer"..
But there is one remedy however faulted. It is possible to have a corporate charter revoked. What many don't understand, or know today, is that corporations are were originally granted charters by government for the good of society, and if a corporation didn't help the public good they could have their charter rescended. In SCO's cas
Corporate Death Penalty (Score:2)
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This is closer to capital punishment than a castodial sentence.
In SCO's case what this woud mean is that all of SCO's assets would be auctioned off then the procedes would be used to settle outstanding debts, much like in bankrupcy.
Presumably with the same "pecking order" of creditors.
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I guess they could plead insanity and get the medical treatment they require.
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There's a documentary film, "The Corporation", that neatly expounds this idea. Of course anyone unwilling to argue reasonably will dismiss it as commie drivel and move along... too bad.
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IIRC it is very much the case that "corporate people", especially with the laws which currently exist surrounding their behaviour would definitly qualify as "mad people".
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IBM was accused by SCO of breach of contract. IBM does a metric assload of consulting to loads of companies, all under contract. IBM won't stop until it is proven without a doubt that they did not breach contract in the slightest. Its all for clearing their name.
You forgot one. (Score:2)
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I always found it particularly ironic that the film was made by Big Picture Media Corporation, according to their website - a subsidiary company of British Columbia Film. I think BC's Annual Report [bcfilm.bc.ca] speaks volumes:
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The Casablanca Dilemma (Score:5, Interesting)
You're in Casablanca. If you are not out of Casablanca on tommorow's flight, you're a dead man. You have your tickets, but you need Captain Renault to provide you with papers. Louis charges a thousand francs for this "service",and you can only raise five hundred.
The only way to double your money overnight is to win big a Rick's roullette tables, which would be very unlikely at an honest table -- which Rick's decidedly are not. Sometimes Rick has been known to take pity on a hard luck case, but there's no special reason for him to help you out of all the other desperate folks. You beg Rick for help, but it's no use. He's already helped one hard luck case tonight, and for some reason he is too distracted to pay attention to anything you have to say.
So you put down your bet at Rick's crooked table, knowing that you are almost certainly a walking dead man. But it's better to keep playing than to stop, and remove all doubt.
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The only way to double your money overnight is to win big a Rick's roullette tables, which would be very unlikely at an honest table -- which Rick's decidedly are not. Sometimes Rick has been known to take pity on a hard luck case, but there's no special reason for him to help you out of all the other desperate folks. You beg Rick for help, but it's no use. He's already helped one hard luck case tonight, and for some reason he is too distracted to pay attention to anything you have to say.
Excellent movie
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"If she can stand it, I can! Play it!"
"Play it again, Sam" (Score:2)
But he does tell Sam to "Play it".
"If she can stand it, I can! Play it!"
I don't recall that. But thanks, I've got the movie on tape so you've given me a reason to watch it today.
FalconRe: (Score:2)
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you, Rick?
--
Capt. Renault: I'm shocked! SHOCKED! To find that gambling has been going on in this establishment!
Sasha? : Your winnings, Capt. Renault.
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Chris Mattern
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b) Capt. Louis Renault is a major character in the extrememly famous movie Casablanca...which is what the OP was drawing the entire analogy from (Capt. Renault, Rick, Rick's crooked gambling tables, the need to get a pass out of Casablanca or you're dead--all are taken directly from the movie). Which is why I knew Capt. Renault and Louis were the same person, and why the OP assumed other people would know that too.
CHris Mattern
Wrong (Score:4, Informative)
> supposed copyright infringing code in Unix...
Incorrect. It's a contract case. The only copyright infringement claim The SCO Group is making has to do with IBM continuing to distribute AIX after TSG supposedly terminated IBM's irrevocable, perpetual, fully paid up SysV license.
> -- has quietly asked the courts to reconsider IBM's request to toss the case
> out.
Incorrect again. They have asked the court to reconsider its decision to toss most of TSG's evidence.
Re:Wrong (Score:4, Informative)
> The SCO Group is making has to do with IBM continuing to distribute AIX
> after TSG supposedly terminated IBM's irrevocable, perpetual, fully paid
> up SysV license.
Sorry, but it's you that's wrong Mr Hasler.
Here's a breakdown of those Items that remain:
1 (JFS in Linux): Contract claim
2 (RCU in Linux): Contract claim
23 (Dynix EES in Linux): Contract claim, negative know-how
43 (Dynix TCP in Linux): Contract claim, negative know-how
90 (Dynix EES in Linux): Contract claim, negative know-how
94 (NUMA/SMP in Linux): Contract claim
113-142 (SPIE test suite in Linux): Contract claim
150-164 (STREAMS in Linux): Copyright claim
183-184 (Single Unix Specification ABI header files in Linux): Copyright claim
185 (atemalloc in Linux): Copyright claim
186-192 (misc Dynix stuff in Linux): Contract claim
194-203 (Monterey in AIX for Power): Copyright claim
204 (SysV in Dynix): Copyright claim
205-231 (Single Unix Specification material in Linux): Copyright claim
272-278 (ELF in Linux): Copyright claim
Total remaining items 106
Contract items 43, copyright items 63
Linux items 95, Dynix items 1, AIX items 10
Source: http://www.zen77087.zen.co.uk/nug/alleg/viols.sht
For informed discussion, forget Groklaw's red dress worshipping zombie horde.
Go to the SCOX forum at Investor Village
http://www1.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=1911&
Is that you, Maureen? (Score:1)
Boo.
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JFS is from OS/2
Dynix TCP ? Isn't that a vaguely modified version of BSD TCP? Like all other TCP stacks on earth? including Sys V, which probably also uses BSD TCP?
Streams? Is suing Kernighan & Ritchie (sp) next?
Isn't the Single Unix Specification owned by Austin Group, formerly owned by IEEE and Open Group ?
atemalloc came from IRIX, so to go on that, they would have to prove thi
I don't believe ... (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as they do, the 800-pound puppetmaster behind the curtain can continue to get mileage out of charges that Linux is tainted by IP infringement and that Linux users may be liable for stiff damages.
How Long Do They Get To Do This Stuff? (Score:2)
If corporations are "legal persons", why aren't they bound by the same standard?
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Assuming said person did not wind up in a "nut house".
If corporations are "legal persons", why aren't they bound by the same standard?
When it comes to the law "corporate people" are rarely treated the same as real people. Especially when it comes to criminal law. There are no jails for "corporat
Will SCO's CEO Get Another Job... (Score:2)
CREATE SOMETHING PEOPLE WILL KNOCK YOUR DOOR DOW TO GET AT.
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They know how to show gratitude.
Watching the future of Darl McBride's career will prove interesting, as well as the rest of SCO's top executives.
Maybe Novell had a way to connecto SCO to Microsoft and that is part of the deal they signed (for about 350 million).
Ambiguity (Score:2, Informative)
This reads like SCO want the court to throw the case out, or that the court has thrown the case out, and SCO wants the court to reconsider. When, in fact, all that has happened is a sizeable portion of their case has been thrown out, not the case in it's entirety.
What did we expect? (Score:1)
New evidence? what? (Score:2, Insightful)
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A bit late (Score:2)
Problem with that (Score:3, Informative)
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"Nice kebob stand you have here. Would be a shame if it burns down."
You don't give in to blackmail. No matter what...