Sony Adds PS3 Support to Linux Kernel

mu22le writes "A few Sony patches to the Linux kernel have just been merged in the mainline tree, to be included in the 2.6.20 release. The patches add 'core platform support for the PS3 game console and other devices using the PS3 hypervisor.'" From the Linux Devices article: "Linux gained generic support for the Cell processor, on which the PS3 is based, with the 2.6.13 release in June of 2005. The new Sony-contributed patches to the 2.6.20 kernel appear to add machine-specific support for technology such as the PS3's memory architecture, DMA (direct memory access) model, and SMP (symmetric multiprocessing) model. A Yellow Dog Linux (YDL) distribution has been available for the PS3 since October, thanks to a development deal between Sony and YDL publisher TerraSoft. However, YDL so far has not been bundled with early PS3 shipments, despite earlier indications from Sony Entertainment's CEO, Ken Kuturagi."

At the moment

[joshetc]

At the moment this is the only reason I would even consider buying a PS3 sometime in the future. It is really great to see them supporting the Linux community by making porting to their console much easier...

Re:

[brenddie]

Lets just hope that it doesnt go the way of the PS2 and once they get done evading whatever taxes game consoles have over PCs and abandon support for linux. At least this time the hardware is interesting enough to keep people working/hacking the console.

Re:

[CronoCloud]

It was YABASIC in Europe that was included with PS2s to evade the tax, which doesn't exist anymore. The Linux kit for the PS2 or Linux for the PS3 have nothing to do with that. I don't know why that urban legend keeps showing up.

You did know that the official PS2 Linux sit is still up and running, they didn't abandon support, they just sold all the kits.

Re:

[hawkbug]

Actually, from the rumors I have heard, you're supposed to be able to do quite a bit in terms of development with the PS3 off the shelf. I think that was one of the more radical improvements this time around, but I could be wrong of course.

Re:At the moment

[fistfullast33l]

On top of this, IGN did a review of the Linux rollout [ign.com] Main takeaways:

• The graphics chip is not supported at the moment, and neither is 3D graphics. IGN reports that one half of the system's memory isn't visible. This makes sense since the 512MB is split between the video and the processor.
• The system runs pretty smoothly. Startup for Firefox was about 5 seconds, which sounds normal to me on my P4 3ghz running E17.
• Screenshots include the E17 desktop, which looks fairly complete. No word on what modules are supported for E17, but remember it's in active development and just recently overhauled the entire module system, including adding the shelf.
• You can only install Linux in one of two configurations - a 50/10 split on the 60gb drive. So you either give most of your space to linux or to the PS3 for games and media, but you can't split it 30/30 or any other way.
• Unlike a comment below, IGN reports that the Wireless card is supported, but not automatically detected. You'll have to choose the driver manually apparently.
• Firefox, Thunderbird, Gaim, the GIMP, and OO.o are included. Flash is not since it doesn't exist for the Cell processor yet.
• Titan, which I've never heard of, is the default media player but has no plugins available. You have to download them on your own.
  
  
  Seems like a nice rollout, but I don't like the hard drive allocation. It'd be nice if you could just install the OS's side by side and let them share media across. I hope you can do that.

Thanks for digging this up

[Lonewolf666]

I'd like to add that according to other sources, the PS3 runs Linux under a hypervisor that hides the graphics chip from Linux, so that limitation might be permanent (unless someone does serious, and in some jurisdictions illegal, hacking).

What remains is a computer with a very interesting CPU, but rather limited RAM and no 3D hardware acceleration. For most everyday use cases, a generic PC should do better.

Re:Thanks for digging this up

[rtb61]

Think of it more as a console accesory, remote keyboard and mouse with Linux and you are extending the capabilities of your game console to include a reliable working computer - email, internet browsing, office suite etc.(it is a just a matter of waiting for that option pack to be released), the inverse of a typical personal computer, with the addition of dual boot to the toy operating system 'windows', you also get an unreliable game console out of a working computer.

Re:

[tepples]

You don't think you're going to be able to fully use the hardware on the PS3 without an official dev kit, do you?

It's not a question of fully using the hardware but a question of having any hardware to use at all. Which other platform allows independent game developers to develop and distribute games designed for use with a large (25" and up) screen and two to four controllers? HTPC?

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Which other platform allows independent game developers to develop and distribute games designed for use with a large (25" and up) screen and two to four controllers? HTPC?

Just the Xbox 360 [microsoft.com].

Or, you know, any PC. It's not like you can't get TV-out. You can connect as many controllers as you like, too. You could use a mac. etc etc.

XNA Creators Club costs $500 over console life

[tepples]

Just the Xbox 360.

Running homebrew produced in XNA Game Studio on an Xbox 360 game console requires an active XNA Creators Club membership for each console. This costs $100 per year for the developer and, worse, $100 per year for each user. This is $500 over the life of the console, the same price as a PLAYSTATION 3 game console (once Sony ramps up production).

Or, you know, any PC. It's not like you can't get TV-out.

What percent of PCs have TV output, and what percent of those TV outputs are actually used? What kind of Free, free, or shareware game would drive demand for a

Re:

[poot_rootbeer]

Which other platform allows independent game developers to develop and distribute games designed for use with a large (25" and up) screen and two to four controllers?

Well, Xbox Live Arcade and Nintendo Virtual Console, for two...

What is the point

[HappySqurriel]

Beyond the geek factor, what is the point of Linux on the PS3?

Does it do anything that you couldn't do with a much less expensive PC that you can install Linux on? I just don't get it ...

Re:What is the point

[snoyberg]

Doesn't the Cell perform some scientific calculations very well? Sounds like a motivation to me. Also, for those so inclined you could theoretically utilize the extra processing power of your PS3 from your Linux box through clustering.

Re:What is the point

[Enoxice]

Are you imploring us to imagine a Beowulf cluster of PS3s? Intriguing...

Re:

[Trelane]

Are you imploring us to imagine a Beowulf cluster of PS3s? Intriguing...

Not a PS3 per se.... [theregister.co.uk]

/me would dearly love to get his hands on a cell system, if anyone from IBM is in the house.... :)

Re:

[Oddscurity]

Indeed, theoretically it's a more than decent platform for F@H, et al.

Re:

[carlmenezes]

The multiple cores of the cell processor seem like a good place for stuff like video/audio encoding/decoding. Hehe...how about throw some good speech recognition engine in there just for kicks to see how good it is at making subtitles from your home video camera? :) Heck, go even one step further and throw in some face recognition on each frame...ok i'm dreaming...time to get back to work.

Yep

[StarKruzr]

With the "stream processors" as part of it, Cell is kind of like a DSP fused with a GPP. It will be EXTREMELY GOOD at certain tasks like scientific computing and digital signal processing.

Re:

[Trelane]

From what I heard the SPUs use low precision for floating point operations which makes them useless for many scientific applications.

Yes, and not necessarily, respectively. The SPUs in the PS3 anyway (IIRC this may be changed for other revs of the design, which would definitely be nice for scientific computing) are all single-precision. You must do double-precision (most scientific work) in software+single, which takes a performance hit of one order of magnitude. Fortunately, however, the Cell is blind

Re:What is the point

[joshetc]

$600 isnt a bad price for a high end media PC.

Plus it can play games and bluray media.

In a way I agree with you though, if I wound up buying one itd probably be after the cost goes down a bit..

Re:

[HappySqurriel]

$600 isnt a bad price for a high end media PC.

Plus it can play games and bluray media.

In a way I agree with you though, if I wound up buying one itd probably be after the cost goes down a bit..

But can it burn CDs/DVDs?
Can you install any OS besides linux on it?
Does it have a PS/2 Keybord/mouse port or a printer port?

These may not seem like big things, but they're just to demonstrate that you're probably going to spend more money on a PS3 and (as a PC) it will function on a much worse level.

Re:

[poot_rootbeer]

Does it have a PS/2 Keybord/mouse port or a printer port?

Did it become 1998 again when I wasn't looking?

Here in the futuristic year of 2006, we use USB to attach keyboards, mouses, and printers to our computers.

Re:What is the point

[AuMatar]

You do. I'm not wasteful like that. USB is a high overhead protocol thats wasteful of CPU time for something as straightforward as a mouse or keyboard. Why spend 4 times the time you have to in a USB interrupt instead of a quick PS/2 one? On top of that, it causes 2 single points of failure (USB circuit shorts? Now everything is broken, its a shared bus. With PS/2, only your printer breaks)- the hardware and the drivers. I prefer having my mouse and keyboard use an easier to code, unchanging, decade old interface so that if something goes wrong with USB my computer is usable.

Re:What is the point

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a life.

Re:

[smash]

I'll bet you ran and stuck your head in the sand when it came time to learn protected mode x86, too.

If your PS2 port breaks, you're fucked (no keyboard). If your USB port breaks, you've got another one.

The cpu usage is a non-issue. It may be "wasteful" but seriously, there's far more serious problems to solve than cutting down your keyboard's utilisation down from 0.01% of a single cpu - you can cut that time down by 99% and its still no real gain.

I'm all for optimisation, but seriously...

Re:

[moranar]

If your PS2 port breaks, you're fucked (no keyboard). If your USB port breaks, you've got another one.

Well, If "you've got another USB port in the case your other port breaks", then you could buy a USB keyboard in the (unlikely, IMHO) case your PS2 port broke, and attach the keyboard.

Waste

[SuperKendall]

What is wasteful is having a billion ports on the back of something when just a few would do.

Besides, you can also use a bluetooth keyboard/mouse with it as well (assuming those drivers work, have not heard if they do or not).

Re:

[Quarters]

I prefer having my mouse and keyboard use an easier to code, unchanging, decade old interface

Ah, so you do like to use USB, which was first released in Jan of 1996. PS/2 ports, on the other hand, have been around since the PS/2 computer was introduced--circa 1987 or so.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

If you have a short in your PS/2, it will probably take out the +5 volts line and confuse your whole computer, so that's not much of a benefit. I've had it happen before. Also, most systems with PS/2 ports get them through the ISA bus for some bizarre reason, even when there's no ISA slots in the system. I'd rather just not have an ISA bus. It's bad enough that most (or at least some) current PCI Express systems have an internal PCI bus that some peripherals are attached to. The whole point of PCI-E is that

Re:

[donaldm]

No but you can backup to any USB, bluetooth or wifi device be it a hard drive or CD/DVD/Bluray burner. can't see HD-DVD supported but it is feasable.

At the moment no, but I think we will see a BSD port, however I cannot see this happening with any proprietary OS. Still Microsoft and Apple may allow this, after all you do have to pay them for this proposed port, but I would not hold my breath.

No but you can use a USB or even bluetooth keyboard and mouse or a printer. In fact having a wireless keyboard/mouse

Re:

[Total_Wimp]

On the other hand, your new Linux box can function as a full-featured PS3.

You can go back and forth, but the bottom line is that some of the core PS3 funtionality should have some value to you if you want to get your money's worth out of it. If you don't care about BluRay or games, then you're 100% correct, you should look elseware for your next Linux box. But if you really want to play Motor Storm, getting a "free" Linux box with the deal could be a nice bonus.

TW

Burner, keyboard, mouse, printer

[tepples]

But can it burn CDs/DVDs?

The PLAYSTATION 3 game console running Linux might be able to use an optical disc recorder connected to one of its USB 2.0 ports.

Can you install any OS besides linux on it?

Any operating system vendor is welcome to make a boot loader module for PS3 Other OS Installer [playstation.com]. But in general, only Free operating systems are going to be worth anybody's time.

Does it have a PS/2 Keybord/mouse port

The keyboard and mouse used with the PlayStation 2 game console (PS2) were a standard USB keyboard and a standard USB mouse. Yes, these devices also work with PS3 consoles.

or a printer port?

Sony left off a dedicated printer port probably because it saw that Nintendo's Game Boy Printer was a flop. But you can still attach any USB or network printer that has a CUPS driver.

Re:

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

I think you mistook PS/2 for PS2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS/2_connector [wikipedia.org]
is not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2 [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[HappySqurriel]

My point was that installing Linux on a PS3 is like putting a square peg into a round hole; if the hole is large enough and the peg is small enough it will "work" but it is not a good fit. With $400 you could buy a cheap PC that can do everything the PS3 does (except play Blu-Ray movies) and has legacy support for (practically) every piece of hardware you already own; for $500/$600 you can buy a PS3 which can not do everything a PC does, and if you want to make use of hardware you already own you'll have to

Re:

[CronoCloud]

That $400 PC can't play PS3 games or PS2 games. It can't even play PC games very well.

The PS3 on the other hand is fully capable of opening a Word document and printing it out and other supposedly PC only things.

Re:

[Osty]

$600 isnt a bad price for a high end media PC.

What "high end" media PC has 256MB of shared memory? Low-end non-media PCs have 512MB of RAM (shared with the video card) these days. Even the Xbox 360 has 512MB of shared memory. A high-end media PC is more likely to have 1GB+ of system RAM and a video card with its own dedicated RAM. Multi-purpose machines need more RAM. Game consoles don't need as much because they have control over what they do with the RAM (few or no other processes running, access

Re:

[CronoCloud]

No no no, it's 256 main RAM, 256 graphics RAM.

main RAM isn't shared.

Re:

[CronoCloud]

Your RAM would go even further using fluxbox, XFCE or even the e17 Yellow Dog 5.0 uses. :-)

Re:

[MikeBabcock]

E17 on Yellow Dog is actually an interesting choice -- Enlightenment uses optimized software libraries to render text and graphics that work just as well with or without OpenGL acceleration for its eye-candy. Since the PS3 doesn't yet come with hardware-accelerated OpenGL drivers, Enlightenment should work very well with the very high speed framebuffer display device.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

256MB main memory (the other 256MB is dedicated to graphics) and severely limited access to the graphics hardware is not a high end PC of any sort. It has lots of processing power but it's very hard to use, and not really general-purpose. It's a low-end PC with some high-end hardware. The only people who will find this very useful are people who already use Linux and would like to remotely display applications back to the PS3, people who just need web/email, and the scientific community that would like to u

Re:

[joshetc]

Even the best high-end media PC is useless without proper graphics drivers. There's no sign that nvidia puts out some drivers for the RSX in the PS3, yet.

Thats a really good point. Sony supporting PS3 could push nvidia to develop drivers for it which might wind up benefiting even us non-ps3 linux users.

Re:

[mrchaotica]

Of course, unless those drivers are Free Software nobody (including Yellow Dog or even Sony itself) will be allowed to distribute them with the kernel. You'd have to install Linux first and then go download the drivers from nVidia.

Re:

[NekoXP]

There's no reason why Terra Soft couldn't put the nVidia binary DRM driver in the initrd and put it on the Cell YDL CD for X. YOU can't do it as a nobody without a license from nVidia, but we are talking about a professional Linux distributio[nr] here who obviously has some vested interest, support from Sony and IBM, to get this done.

Good luck getting it into Debian, of course, but also I reckon Gentoo is fairly immune as you would be leeching the drivers from a package repository/nVidia's homepage anyway.

Re:

[mrchaotica]

No, the GPL license of the kernel prohibits it. To do it, you'd have to have permission from nvidia and all the kernel developers.

Remember a while back when some people got cease-and-desisted for making a live CD with the nvidia drivers included? Unless I'm mistaken, that letter came from a kernel dev, not nvidia.

Re:

[mrchaotica]

IANAL, but I've read about this a lot and I think I understand it well.

The software in question is divided into three parts: the Linux kernel itself, the open-source stub written by nvidia, and the binary nvidia driver. The first is licensed under the GPL, and the other two are licensed under the nvidia software license [nvidia.com]. However, there is one part of that license that only applies to the stub, not the binary:

2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE desi

Re:

[Drooling Iguana]

That was the N64.

Re:

[king-manic]

A cell procesor computer for a grand with a decent GPU and insane memory bandwidth. It's got a few niches (poverty stricken research labs comes ot mind).

Can't take full advantage.

[Kadin2048]

Except that I believe that you can't use many of the advanced features of the GPU because it currently lacks Linux drivers.

Also, at least as of a while ago, Linux didn't take advantage of all the SPUs within Cell; I'd hope that the Sony kernel modules mentioned in this article solve that problem, but I'm not sure.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[xero314]

As I software developer with out a license to an existing Dev Kit or The money to set up a Cell Based server (the only other Cell development options) I could see the use in it as a learning tool. Oh plus it plays 3 generation on Console games, DVDs, CDs and BluRay disks, etc...

Re:

[Megane]

Oh plus it plays 3 generation on Console games, DVDs, CDs and BluRay disks, etc...

But can it play those games while you're using it as a "Cell Based server"? Dual-boot seems cool... until you want to run a server.

Re:

[xero314]

But can it play those games while you're using it as a "Cell Based server"?

Probably not, but you can get a couple of them for less than a Cell based server setup (and all it requires) so I still think it's a decent idea.

Re:

[xenocide2]

Sadly, one of the purposes of the HyperVisor(HV) mode seems to be to lock Linux out of most if not all of those features.

Re:

[Megane]

The point is that if they can claim that it is a "computer", there are much lower import taxes for selling it in Europe. That's why they had a PS2 Linux too, and I think I can vaguely recall hearing about some sort of BASIC for the PS1. The difference is that this one doesn't seem to require a disk that can go out of print on Sony's whim.

Re:

[CronoCloud]

Again with the tax myth. Linux for the PS2 or PS3 had nothing to do with that tax, which was a Europe only thing. The tax doesn't exist anymore.

SCEfoo is supporting Linux because they want to.

Re:

[Andy_R]

For a lot of people, the point is the Cell chip. It's related to the PowerPC line of cpus that Apple recently dropped, making it somewhere fairly comfortable for Apple coders who don't fancy going over to x86, anyone who doesn't like the idea of coding for x86's archtecture, or anyone who buys into the Cell Alliance hype that these chips will be in every device in the world in 10 years time.

A lot of music software developers are excited about the DSP power in the Cell chip, since on paper it wipes the floor

Re:

[MikeBabcock]

Does it do anything that you couldn't do with a much less expensive PC that you can install Linux on? I just don't get it.

Better question: can you do what the PS3 does for less than the $500 it costs? No.

You get a BDRom drive, high-end gaming system, HDMI capable output, 3.2GHz processor + SPUs, memory and a hard drive with USB ports and bluetooth support.

Tell me you can build one of those for $500. It also has to play really good 3D games, for which the video card will cost more than half of that price.

Rootkit

[nogginthenog]

Does it include the 'CD copy protection' loadable module?

We are winning.

[gunny01]

Put that up your pipe and smoke it NetBSD! You don't support Cell! So much for 'Of Course it Supports NetBSD!'

Win Win scenario

[jmorris42]

I just hope Sony understands just what a winning scenario this could be for everyone.

Imagine. Play this right, let the bugs settle out for a few months and then start passing out ready to go DVDs on gaming mag covers. Sell a ready to rock kit with a preloaded memory key, DVD, keyboard and mouse. Instantly a PS3 is a gaming rig, BlueRay player AND a fully functional PC, ready for web browsing, OO.o, etc. Given just a small push and penetration could easilly hit 50% of an installed base likely to number in the tens of millions within two to three years.

For Sony the upside is realizing the sales pitch that a PS3 is more than a console, being able to make the pitch that a PS3 purchase for the kids is ALSO a PC purchase. Plus if it kills a few PC sales why should Sony care? Their desktop PC division is all but dead (laptops are of course another story, they make some cool lappies) and every Windows PC sale is money in their enemy's hand.

For us penguinheads we have to grit our teeth a bit at the idea of Sony succeeding but they ARE doing it the right way in this case so we have to be ready to give em props. Just imagine millions of DESKTOP LINUX installs. Millions! If PS3 ends up selling well and that penetration percentage goes much over 50% Linux could be the #2 desktop OS, pushing Apple to #3. Talk about irony, if Apple abandoned PPC for Intel and a PPC platform ended up defeating them. Balmer wouldn't be the only Steve hurling furniture. :)

Re:

[poot_rootbeer]

Instantly a PS3 is a gaming rig, BlueRay player AND a fully functional PC, ready for web browsing, OO.o, etc.

Yes, a box with only 256MB of general-purpose RAM is IDEAL for web browsing, Open Office, etc.....

Given just a small push and penetration could easilly hit 50% of an installed base likely to number in the tens of millions within two to three years.

I don't know which claim is more unlikely... that PS3 Linux would be of interest to anywhere near 50% of PS3 owners, or that Sony will be able to sell tens

Re:Win Win scenario

[jmorris42]

> that PS3 Linux would be of interest to anywhere near 50% of PS3 owners

And why not? What do most people use a PC for?

1. Internet: Web, IM, etc. PS3 running Linux can do that. Especially once the installed base gets big enough to ensure things like a current Flash and other needed bits are ported in a timely manner.

2. Games. Everyone always rips linux gaming with wiseass cracks like, yea, assuming you think Tux Racer is state of the art, etc. Duh, reboot and it is a Playstation 3 again, bet that can satisfy most people's gamer cravings. Remember, this is oficially supported Linux, no modchips and no worries about being locked out of playing games.

3. Basic productivity. OO.o can do that. Running a hog like OO.o in 256M will be a bit of bother but not insurmountable if you are only doing a bit of that stuff and on small home size documents.

4. Multimedia. The thing already supports direct YUV video modes in all of the HD, ED and SD resolutions under Linux. A Media player setup is a no brainer even if you have to download the packages from Europe. MythTV's frontend will love running on one.

Given that can't you see smart parents buying the kids a PS3 instead of an Xbox360 and a PC? Or that many owners will take advantage of the ability to have a spare PC when they aren't gaming?

> or that Sony will be able to sell tens of millions of PS3s in the next couple of years

Do you think it will still be $599 by next xmas? And that the supply issues with blue lasers will still limit supply of consoles? Ok.

Re:

[justchris]

1. Already in the PS3 OS.
2. Already in the PS3 OS.
3. Yes, you'd need Linux for this one.
4. Already in the PS3 OS.

The point is, no where near 50% of the people buying a PS3 are going to care about Linux. Most of the stuff they would want to use a full OS for can be done directly from the PS3 without installing Linux. With advancements being made in web apps to provide basic productivity, and a built-in web browser, there's suddenly no need for a 'Other OS' on the PS3, and so no one but hardcore geeks

Re:

[Chibi Merrow]

Do you think it will still be $599 by next xmas?

Yes. What console in the last five years had a price drop in its first year? The only reason they'd drop the price is if it was an utter failure, but they're already losing too much money per unit. Just like the XBox 360, the price isn't coming down anytime soon.

And as far as "millions" of people wanting a box they can use as a PC... 1) It doesn't run windows, therefore no one will want it. 2) Most people already don't use 90% of the features of the devices th

Re:

[gutnor]

With the same argument 50% of computer users would use Linux everyday.

The question is not how PS3 Linux could fill in the computer needs but rather why would 50% of the PS3 owners feel a sudden need to run Linux / solve their computer problem on the PS3.
Especially since
- They bought a gaming machine, or maybe a Media player.
- Probably the vast majority of user buying a PS3 already have a computer. ( and probably running Windows )
- Those who d

Re:

[CronoCloud]

I see Linux on the PS3 as trying to get an edge into the "second household PC" market. Lots of people own PC's and some own two (or three) because people get tired of waiting to use the one. But with the PS3 there's no need to buy another Wintel box, thereby also reducing Microsofts OEM Windows sales.

PS3 as a PC? It would piss off gamers

[jchenx]

If Sony started truly started marketing the PS3 big-time as a PC, I can guarantee that this move would piss off many gamers. They want a game console, and one that does a really job at it. Your typical hard-core gamer doesn't want some secondary PC they can use to read their mail or do their homework on. After all, they probably already have a PC or a laptop for that. The PS3 is supposed to be something that gets turned on when you want to play a game.

So that's the danger of Sony and Linux on the PS3. They

Re:PS3 as a server farm

[cheekyboy]

well maybe setup 20-30 of them, and bingo a large cluster for a big website, if your cheap and cannot afford $9k hardware. I guess on a total hits/dollar its cheaper.

Re:

[peterpi]

Yep, 2007 will definitely be the year of the linux desktop.

Re:

[poot_rootbeer]

And why not? What do most people use a PC for?

You answered "Internet, games, basic productivity, and multimedia" and I agree with you. However, most people already HAVE a PC with which they do those things, which doesn't give them much motivation to go out and buy a PS3 in order to keep doing them.

Yes, Linux on a new PS3 may even be a better computing experience than XP on a three-year-old Dell -- but it doesn't matter. Unless there's a compelling reason to switch, people will stick with what they're fami

Re:Win Win scenario

[Trelane]

Yes, a box with only 256MB of general-purpose RAM is IDEAL for web browsing, Open Office, etc.....

Actually, it's not so bad. You would likely be surprised.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

I have a Mobile P3 850MHz laptop with 384MB RAM running Ubuntu Dapper. OO.o is painfully slow to start and swaps constantly if I have two OO.o apps up and switch between them. I call shenanigans. If you were surprised, you'd only be surprised that anyone would claim that it was usable in 256MB. People don't like to wait for their word processor between keystrokes.

Re:

[Trelane]

OO.o is painfully slow to start and swaps constantly if I have two OO.o apps up and switch between them.

I don't know. I just know that I was using OOo on OpenSuSE 10.0 or 10.1 and it seemed slow, but not unreasonably so.

Re:

[Trelane]

also, what speed is your hard drive?

Re:

[drinkypoo]

2.5" 5400 RPM - same as the drive in the PS3.

Re:

[Trelane]

Weird. I dunno. This was a desktop system, so maybe its hard drive was faster? It was a very old system, though.

Depends on the WM

[SuperKendall]

Yes, a box with only 256MB of general-purpose RAM is IDEAL for web browsing, Open Office, etc.....

Hasn't anyone ever run a slimmed down WM like TWM?

With a smaller screen and simpler uses, you don't need a fancy WM that takes up a great deal of memory - and Mozilla should run just fine in that little memory with most of the OS and WM not hogging memory.

Re:

[moranar]

Hasn't anyone ever run a slimmed down WM like TWM?

Yea, Blackbox and its ilk.

Mozilla should run just fine in that little memory

No, if I had now a computer with 256 MB of RAM (I have a 64 MB one I use as a server, though), I probably wouldn't use Mozilla on it (nor Firefox) alongside TWM. Why would I go to the trouble of avoiding "heavy" libraries (GTK) if I was going to install a feature-laden browser on it? Worse, the broser is going to require them, or their own separate attempt (yes, I use Epiphany on

Re:

[peterpi]

With 256Mb, you don't really need a slimmed down window manager. I run whatever version of gnome ships with debian etch quite happily on 256Mb/800Mhz laptop.

Re:

[CronoCloud]

Doesn't WinXP run on boxes with only 256MB. Last I checked at my local Wal-mart they had a WinXP box for sale with only 256. The Windows machine I have had 256MB as the base RAM and Gateway was advertising them as being good general sue computers.

Personally, I've been running Linux on a PS2 for over 4 years. The 32MB is a limitation yes, but not as much as you might think and the PS3 has 8x as much. It'll be enough for general uses.

Re:

[eklitzke]

Hi. I've had my computer turned on for the last three hours running Firefox 2.0 and with a terminal open doing coding. And I'm running Gnome, which isn't exactly a lightweight desktop environment. Let's look at how much memory I'm using:

> uptime
00:29:09 up 3:13, 1 user, load average: 0.33, 0.20, 0.13
> free -m
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 494 488 6 0 98 209
-/+ buffers/cache: 180 314
Swap: 603 0 603

Re:

[NullProg]

Yes, a box with only 256MB of general-purpose RAM is IDEAL for web browsing, Open Office, etc.....

Whats your point?

My wifes box is loaded with 196M RAM. She uses KDE 3, Xmms, OpenOffice 2, and Mozilla (SeaMonkey, with the java plugin loaded), and it still hasn't hit the swap partition after 90 days.

Enjoy,

Re:

[mrchaotica]

For us penguinheads we have to grit our teeth a bit at the idea of Sony succeeding but they ARE doing it the right way in this case so we have to be ready to give em props.

It sure seems like a good thing, but we still need to be cautious -- I fully expect Sony to try to slip some DRM or closed-source "extensions" or something in with it sooner or later.

Re:Win Win scenario

[ucblockhead]

Sony won't push Linux on the PS3 until it starts selling it at a profit. People buying PS3s to install Linux and never buying a game is Sony's worst nightmare.

Re:

[SanityInAnarchy]

Let me add some more checkboxes: [_] Fix the partitioning scheme (let me partition it however I want, not just 50/10 or 10/50) [_] Blu-ray support Problem is, Blu-ray support won't be where I want it, which is, of course, the ability to write completely open source software that can play Blu-ray media. People mention the PS3 as a MythTV box. What they're missing is that Sony will never let us just rip a Blu-ray disc into MythTV -- and that's ignoring the challenge of getting it to record from a high-def s

Re:

[SanityInAnarchy]

Damn, there I go again. Damn "HTML formatted" button. Reposting:

Let me add some more checkboxes:

[_] Fix the partitioning scheme (let me partition it however I want, not just 50/10 or 10/50)
[_] Blu-ray support

Problem is, Blu-ray support won't be where I want it, which is, of course, the ability to write completely open source software that can play Blu-ray media. People mention the PS3 as a MythTV box. What they're missing is that Sony will never let us just rip a Blu-ray disc into MythTV -- and that's ignor

Now all it needs is Wireless support...

[DarkJC]

As an owner of a PS3 with Linux installed, the only thing that's missing is wireless support. Wired Ethernet works flawlessly, now lets see some wireless drivers!

Re:

[jonwil]

Screw the wireless, give us hardware accelerated 3D.

Re:

[NullProg]

As an owner of a PS3 with Linux installed, the only thing that's missing is wireless support. Wired Ethernet works flawlessly, now lets see some wireless drivers!

How about writing a review and posting here to slashdot for the rest of us who don't? Give us the scoop on Video, Sound, network etc.
We expect it by Saturday :)

Thanks.
Enjoy,

Who needs video?

[ArcherB]

I see a lot of people here complaining that it is worthless without video drivers. I disagree. Granted, you won't be playing Quake on it, but that does not make it worthless. The first thing I will do when I get one is to have it take over the function of my current Linux box and run my web page off of it. Apache doesn't care what video card you have. This will allow me to dump my space-heater Athlon XP in favor of something a bit more AC friendly. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play a game and run my web page at the same time, but that's why I need to buy 2!!! :-)

Next, this machine will work just fine for checking email, typing documents, spreadsheets, presentations, browsing the web, downloading porn or whatever else you use a PC for. The only downside I see is the lack of storage space. Let's hope it takes external USB drives.

Re:

[ThisNukes4u]

you don't need to buy two ps3's. You could just buy the cheapest celeron or sempron pc available and it will still be faster than your athlon xp, plus tons cheaper than having two ps3's. And I highly doubt the ps3 is any more AC friendly than an athlon xp, have you seen that fan on that thing?

Re:

[ArcherB]

you don't need to buy two ps3's. You could just buy the cheapest celeron or sempron pc available and it will still be faster than your athlon xp, plus tons cheaper than having two ps3's. And I highly doubt the ps3 is any more AC friendly than an athlon xp, have you seen that fan on that thing?

You are correct, but who wants a crappy celeron when they could have two PS3's? Of course, with the second PS3, I need another HDTV. That means another cable box for the bedroom... You see where I'm going with this?

Re:

[Megane]

The first thing I will do when I get one is to have it take over the function of my current Linux box and run my web page off of it.

So what happens to your web page when you want to play GTA4 or FFXVIII? Or were you planning to play nothing but nethack, Tux Racer, and sokoban?

Once you get past the geek factor, there's really no point in using a PS3 as a server when you could use a cheap PC with a fanless CPU instead. If your web page really NEEDS that space-heater Athlon XP, then it probably uses enough bandwidth to a hosting facility too. Plus, you could put in more than 256M RAM, which Apache would appreciate much more than a Ce

Re:

[Lonewolf666]

According to other sources, the power consumption of the PS3 is somewhere between 180 and 205 watts.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061 113/123458/ [nikkeibp.co.jp]
That is probably worse than your space-heater Athlon XP.

PS3 is not so bad

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

The PS3 is actually shaping up to be a pretty nice console. Blu-Ray, Linux support, HDMI, nice CPU/GPU, USB/Bluetooth for controllers. It also seems to be pretty quiet, more so than the 360.

If Sony had released the high-end system at $500 (low end at $400), and hadn't made so many stupid blunders (no resolution scaling, lack of an online plan, limited availability), I think that the PS3 would be creaming the 360 right now.

There's nothing wrong with the PS3 that software patches and price cuts can't help. Unfortunately, as soon as Sony actually gets availability (early next year?), you can bet that MS will be ready with a $300 die-shrunk, cooler, and quieter Premium 360.

hopefully

[minus_273]

hopefully the code will be audited to make sure there arent any backdoors, trojans or DRM schemes snuck into the kernel

Re:

[Procyon101]

I was thinking the same thing... maybe it comes with a preinstalled rootkit like their music CD's :)

Re:

[minus_273]

your sony game saves are already DRMed with magic gate

The fourth console?

[tepples]

Maybe small-game developers could (spontaneusly, ofcourse) start an avalanche of open-source & closed-source console games compatible with PS3 & Linux?

Quoted for truth. Either that, or they could target the emerging fourth console known as home theater PC.

Re:

[Wesley Felter]

The PS3/Linux market is extremely small; indie game developers would be much better off developing for OS X.