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Continued Look at Global Open Source 178

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the how-much-are-you-willing-to-pay dept.
sebFlyte writes "In the second part of its look at open source in governments around the world, ZDNet takes an interesting look at open source in the developing world. Pricing obviously is an important factor (if you look at GDP, MS prices in Vietnam are the equivalent, for local people, of charging just shy of $50,000 for a Windows XP license in the US), but other issues arise, such as Brazil's 'sense of community', a certain amount of security-related worries from the Chinese, and language issues in India. A good analysis of the advantages of open source generally, the huge benefits it can have in developing markets, and the fact that open source is on the up despite massive amounts of lobbying and pressure from some proprietary vendors."
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Continued Look at Global Open Source More

Continued Look at Global Open Source

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  • A bargain! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:47AM (#14026996)
    > (if you look at GDP, MS prices in Vietnam are the equivalent, for local people, of charging just shy of $50,000 for a Windows XP license in the US)

    And worth every penny of it, just like when you buy it in the USA.

    • Re:A bargain! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by 70Bang ( 805280 )


      I cannot provide a citing OTTOMH, but IIRC, Microsoft has said they believe 1/3 of all Windows running today [worldwide] are pirated.

      Some where, some how, they've gone to the same school as the oil executives sitting before Congress last week, attempting to justify their record quarterly profits, but claiming to have done so without gouging their customers: "We had to do it. Otherwise, there'd be a run on gas and it would have create shortages." Imagine them saying under their breath: "the fact we made
      • I cannot provide a citing OTTOMH, but IIRC, Microsoft has said they believe 1/3 of all Windows running today [worldwide] are pirated.

        So at $50,000 a pop... Hey, is that where the **AA is getting their "$X billion lost to piracy" figures?

  • MIT $100 laptop. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by _eb0la_reston_ ( 930919 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:47AM (#14027005) Homepage
    That's why the $100 MIT Laptop makes sense: It's "cheap" for developing countries. Any *serious* developer should have one on hist desk just to see how his applications perform on the next half-of-the-world-hardware-standard.
    • Has it ever occured to you or anyone else that these people you are going to try to sell $100 laptops to have no use for a laptop, for MS Windows, or for open sourced?

      If you GAVE it to them, they would sell it for $60 to buy some better farming equipment or some shoes for their kids.

      In Vietnam, the people who actually have a true NEED for XP can afford it by definition.

      This is part of the assinine 'charity and/or socialist' thinking that it can manage an economy better than Adam Smith's invisible hand.

      • Well, I agree that this thing won't work. But it won't do any harm, either. So, let's just let them do as they like.

      • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by trollable ( 928694 )
        Has it ever occured to you or anyone else that these people you are going to try to sell $100 laptops to have no use for a laptop, for MS Windows, or for open sourced?

        Do you really think students there don't need a computer? There is a lot of IT students in these countries that would be happy to have a personnal computer. And there is already numberous contributions to FOSS coming from them already. Sometimes just localization, sometimes more. The point is not to give computers but to make them affordabl
        • There is a lot of IT students in these countries that would be happy to have a personnal computer.

          And so rarely is the question asked if they're learning...

      • They definitely have a use for it. I'm sure they might sell it if they were desperate, but these cheap computers give them access to information.

        People who need an education can by definition afford to pay for one. People who need books can afford to buy them. Spreading literacy is just part of asinine socialist thinking.
      • wow, stop being such a patronising pessimist... people like you probably believe everyone in Vietnam still lives in a hut in the jungle... now fsck off back to the basement in your mom's trailer...
        • Vietnam Labor force - by occupation: agriculture 63%, industry and services 37% (2000 est.)

          So yeah, they do pretty much live in huts.

          And I am actually going back to the basement of your mom's trailer (wierd trailer to have a basement).

          • Yes because as we all know, all farmers across the world live in huts.
          • So you accept that 37% of Vietnam's population are in industry and service and don't think they may have an use for a laptop?
            • They might. But there is a stated goal by the UN and others to put a laptop into the hands of every child on earth. And my point is they are simply going to sell them for something they actually need if you give them to them.

              If you are intelligent and ambitious in Vietnam, you don't need anyone to give you anything.

              If a company can make a profit on a $100 laptop (and HP and Dell will be making a profit on a really nice laptop for $400 on Black Friday), fine, sell it. But the give-away of this device seems

              • The ability to share knowledge, information and ideas has value to every person on this globe. The patronising attitude that knowledge has no value to poor, or that they have nothing worth communicating with the rest of the world, or that somehow they are either working or sleeping and have no other time for anything else, reflects the attitude of ignorant superiority.

                Consider the access that email provides, that could never be achieved via regular postal services or as it is in large portions of the worl

                • Fine. Go give your laptops to the poor folks of Vietnam on day one and on day two go to the local pawn shop and buy them all back (and crash the local PC business in the process).

                  The people have *other priorities* for the value that is the laptop other than using it.

                  A better program would one that perhaps finances the purchase of laptops at a discount. That way you would get more laptops into hands that actually need them to create value (which may include a parent knowing that a child is particularly gif

                  • Knowledge and understanding is every human beings priority. That is the nature of humanity (from how to craft a stone axe to how to use a cheap notebook computer). Computers and the internet provide access, that would never ever before have been financially viable in the dead tree method of sharing knowledge and understanding.

                    Heres another saying for you, knowledge sets you free. These cheap notebooks cab provide access to that world of knowledge for years to come and set them on what ever path they choos

      • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by grcumb ( 781340 ) on Tuesday November 15, 2005 @12:44AM (#14032535) Homepage Journal

        "Has it ever occured to you or anyone else that these people you are going to try to sell $100 laptops to have no use for a laptop, for MS Windows, or for open sourced?"

        Yes, it has occurred to me. So I went and checked. I didn't just ask people 'Do you want a cheap computer?', I spent a year travelling through a developing country assessing their priority needs. I spent another year setting up community-owned computer centres where people can use computers for about a dollar an hour. There are full every minute of the day. One computer centre has 4 computers and over 250 students signed up for this term alone. The service is expensive for them, but they love it. I'm currently working on another project to replicate this effort throughout the South Pacific.

        Unfortunately, a lot of people fall victim to the same kind of binary logic that you use above. Since when does buying farm implements or providing food aid preclude spending a few dollars on education and employment opportunities? Is it absolutely unimaginable that we could do both?

        "If you GAVE it to them, they would sell it for $60 to buy some better farming equipment or some shoes for their kids."

        Bull. Selling a computer is like selling the milk cow. You're sacrificing your (and your children's) future for quick profit today. Although every society the world over has its own quota of short-sighted people, I can tell you from personal experience that inexpensive computers have value, and they improve living conditions where they are available. I can also tell you from direct experience that most people recognise this and are committed to their children's future.

        Do you know what the number one spending priority is in the developing country where I live? It's school fees. Every single parent I've spoken with cares about nothing more than ensuring a better future for their children. Many parents hold public fund-raisers on behalf of their children in order to keep them in school. Living a life of abject poverty does not mean that people aren't capable of forgoing immediate gratification in favour of a better long-term solution.

        I won't deny for a second that every society has its share of short-sighted people who want flashy new toys without really considering their worth or the cost of owning and using something as sophisticated as a computer. But that's where volunteers like me and the dozens of other working here come in. I've been training unemployed youth in computer repair, maintenance and configuration. They're now earning a modest but viable living providing support services to others. One of them is training the next group of apprentices, too.

        There is nothing more important to learning than access to information and the time to study it. Having a computer in the home makes both of those available. I can say from experience that this laptop initiative is enlightened and will almost certainly have a direct and positive effect on the lives of the recipients.

    • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by johansalk ( 818687 )
      Speaking of the MIT laptop - the next half-of-the-world-hardware-standard should be the next how-things-should-be-standard.
      I have gone open source lately and by that I don't mean openoffice.org instead of MS-Office or gnome/kde instead of windows explorer, but I mean real gnu just how the unix culture intended it to be. I think it's ludicrous that people switch to a *nix and try to run it like a windows, that'd be too dumb and missing the point on unix. Windows may be good for dummies but people shouldn't b
      • Wow. That's a big load you shot there. Feel better?

        The "unix culture" can and has changed over the years. Not everybody has the need or the time, for that matter, to learn LaTeX or SQL.

        There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a well-designed GUI to do work. The fact that decent hardware is so inexpensive now makes your "able to run on the simplest hardware" pretty much a moot point.

        • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:3, Insightful)

          by delire ( 809063 )

          I took his point to be that Computing, through mass-market rationalism, has become a highly modalised activity targeted at the lowest-common-denominator - one whose graphical interfaces (eg OSX, WinXP, KDE/GNOME) are strategically engineered to encourage certain use patterns and types based on theories of predictable action.

          There is loss here for the curious user with no prior technical knowledge; s/he is discouraged from learning about, and then engaging with the actual computational processes offered by
      • The point of computers (running on UNIX or anything else) is to get things done faster and easier. For most people a GUI lets them do this with minimal training.

        The "GNU way" that you propose includes teaching users about cryptic command names like chmod, rm, ls, and cp. It also means learning new operating systems such as Emacs.

        Contrast this with "click a button and drag from here to there."

        Don't attempt to assert moral superiority solely on the basis of accumulated arcana. (How was that for a $50 sentence

      • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by oldCoder ( 172195 )
        ...and within a few months I'd kick any MS user's ass with my $100 laptop

        MS Windows and GUI's in general have allowed people who are experts in fields other than computer software to use computers and gain productivity.

        While you are kicking the other guys butt he is making money by serving his customers or employers.

        A lot of techies have worked very hard for very long to enable non-techies to benefit from computer automation and communications. Just as auto mechanics, designers, geologists and chemic

    • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Cheapy ( 809643 )
      So...You go from 50,000$USD to 26315.79$USD?

      Assuming my math is correct, (and the price for Windows XP is the same in Vietnam as it is in the US) the $100 MIT laptop would cost that price above: $26315.79.

      Sure, it's a nice saving. But it isn't realistic.
      • ``Assuming my math is correct, (and the price for Windows XP is the same in Vietnam as it is in the US) the $100 MIT laptop would cost that price above: $26315.79.

        Sure, it's a nice saving. But it isn't realistic.''

        I don't see why not. First, there are definitely jobs that would make a product at that price affordable. How many people drive cars that cost that much?

        Secondly, I don't think the idea is even that people buy these machines for themselves. Rather, the idea is that charities can donate computers,

    • Re:MIT $100 laptop. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Morrolan ( 542301 )
      Who the hell is going to buy a $100 laptop when they don't have enough to eat.

      What does "developing countries" mean anyway...

      Does anyone really think that a $100 laptop is going to improve the quality of life
      for the vast majority in a "developing country"?

      • Travel a little. You'll see that computers are used pretty much everywhere now. No, I don't mean the rural outback of a developing country, but I do mean all the cities (however poor) in that same country.

        Does anyone really think that a $100 laptop is going to improve the quality of life for the vast majority in a "developing country"?

        I do. Cheaper factor of production (in this case computers) means more production. More production means more money. This money is in the hands of the few who have computers

        • "Travel a little. You'll see that computers are used pretty much everywhere now. No, I don't mean the rural outback of a developing country, but I do mean all the cities (however poor) in that same country."

          Yes, computers are becoming critical even in the 'rural outback' as well. I just spent a week running a laptop from a truck battery and a solar panel on a South Pacific island [positiveearth.org] that has no power and only 6 telephones. The result of this is that the national Rural Training Centre Association now has the

  • In a phrase (Score:4, Interesting)

    by johansalk ( 818687 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:48AM (#14027010)
    or a sentence; open Source is the future, it's inevitable.

  • One added benefit for emerging markets (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RandoX ( 828285 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:49AM (#14027020)
    Since many users in poorer countries don't have existing systems there is no "switch" from one system to another. The users can start out using open source without having the baggage of expectations of how things SHOULD work. They have to start out by learning how to use an OS. Why not the free one?
    • Since many users in poorer countries don't have existing systems there is no "switch" from one system to another.

      This does not apply in the corporate segment, even in poorer countries, like India - computers have been there for decades. And in the home segment, hardware integration and drivers is a big issue even now, with vendors like HPaq not supporting Linux. They give FreeDOS and don't seem to mind the piracy...

      The users can start out using open source without having the baggage of expectations of how
    • without having the baggage of expectations

      That is a shame that that's what holding everybody else back. Baggage, after all, is simply there to be thrown away. I didn't always use Linux. In fact, far from complaining that it wasn't I_Cant_Believe_Its_Not_Windows like some people, I was very surprised (and even a little put off!) at the similarity - the Linux desktop was more like Windows than an Apple or an OS/2...or even an earlier Windows! I got that Red Hat 6 installed on the first try, booted into a Gn

    • From TFA:

      [...] in emerging markets technology projects are more likely to be new installations, which means that licence fee savings for open source software make more of a difference, since updates and retraining are not an issue.

      Repeat points made in TFA and get free Karma for your original insight!

  • Indian price equivalents... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jkrise ( 535370 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:50AM (#14027021) Journal
    Windows XP - Indian Rupees ~8,000 (average pay for an IT worker per month). Equivalent US$ 5,000. Office XP - Indian Rupees ~15,000 Eq US$ 9,000.
    • > Windows XP - Indian Rupees ~8,000 (average pay for an IT worker per month). Equivalent US$ 5,000. Office XP - Indian Rupees ~15,000 Eq US$ 9,000.

      Hmmm... A non-linear exchange rate?
      • I've no doubt he has rounded his calculation. It's close enough for government work.

        Software vendors always forget to convert to a local equivalent. I often see them showing that if you convert the price into US Dollars it is actually lower than what they charge in the US, but forget that the country where they're trying to sell their software people earn on average a lot less than in the US. Then they throw up their hands, whine about piracy and expect locals to care. They're certainly not going to car
      • notice the tilde next to the numbers? that's what people that passed high school math use for estimations.
    • Shit it would take me a full weeks pay (take home) to buy a copy of WinXP Pro. I realise that is 1/4 of what my indian counterpart would have to spend, relatively speaking, but it's still a big bite from the budget. As it is I have finagled my way into three legitimate copies of XP, and to get it on the fourth computer I just called in and told the monkey on the other side of the phone that I replaced my MB and now windows won't install. Just ghosted the other machine, since I won't be able to re-install

  • One problem in some less developed countires... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sznupi ( 719324 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:50AM (#14027025) Homepage
    Corruption.

    The decision makers too often aren't concerned about real financial benefits of others in long term (Linux isn't that usefull for populism)
  • (if you look at GDP, MS prices in Vietnam are the equivalent, for local people, of charging just shy of $50,000 for a Windows XP license in the US)
    But of course, MS is not charging US prices in Vietnam. Every time I see authors using misleading data like this, I see no reason to trust their judgment or conclusions.
    Cannot stop YOU all from doing that, though...
    Happy Posting.

  • Just like the pharma industry (Score:4, Interesting)

    by surfdaddy ( 930829 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:53AM (#14027054)
    In the pharma industry, prices in the US are much higher than overseas. In other countries governments regulate prices to some degree to keep them low. Socialized medicine won't tolerate the US prices. In the US we basically subsidise the large costs of Research and Development, clinical trials, etc. I wonder if the software market could handle this - pricing variation by country for the same items? The problem for MS and others is that unless they do this, they're driving other countries to either steal or to open-source software. Of course, that may not be a bad thing!

    • Re:Just like the pharma industry (Score:4, Funny)

      by dswan69 ( 317119 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @12:02PM (#14027142)
      No, you subsidise the huge marketing costs.

      • EXACTLY! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <slashdot@keir[ ]ad.org ['ste' in gap]> on Monday November 14, 2005 @01:11PM (#14027784)
        As a Canadian, I can never help but laugh myself silly at all the US drug ads I am subjected to on a daily basis.

        What is the point of these ads? Do Americans actually see an ad for some weird drug for low cholesterol, and for some reason believe they are more qualified than their doctor to decide if they need it? Who would do this?

        I can't even fathom this amount of commercialism in medicine - it is wrong on so many levels I cannot even begin to explain. "Ask your Doctor about <insert drug here>. I have a better idea - why dont I assume that my doctor, who has trained for nearly a decade (and more), and who would probably have multiple orders of magnitude more information on me on my condition, would know best, and let them tell me if I need you drug., instead of listening to drug company propeganda?

        • Re:EXACTLY! (Score:4, Informative)

          by microwave_EE ( 768395 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @01:25PM (#14027921)
          Don't forget that here in the states, the drug companies also market directly to the doctors. I know several medical assistants, and the drug reps regularly would come in and leave "samples" for the docs to give out, and they'd buy everybody lunch. All of this is done in hopes that the doctors would prescribe their company's meds...and once a few folks get hooked on claritin (sp??), or Zoloft, or whatever, then the drug company will more than have recouped their investment.
          • Here in Australia, the doctor might prescribe some antibiotic, say, Amoxycillin. This is a brand name of some big pharma company. When I get to the chemist, because this is a prescription medicine, the Chemist asks if I would like the "cheaper" alternative. Cheaper is the "no frills" manufacturers.
            This is what advertising should be about. To tell the consumer, that there are exact copies of the same medications made by "no frills" manufacturers, aka generic drugs.
        • "I have a better idea - why dont I assume that my doctor, who has trained for nearly a decade (and more), and who would probably have multiple orders of magnitude more information on me on my condition, would know best, and let them tell me if I need you drug., instead of listening to drug company propeganda?"

          Because the doctors are subjected to marketing campaigns that are nearly as bad as the ones directed at consumers (BTW, in terms of pharma, you are a consumer -- not a patient).

          Sure, you should tr

        • Re:EXACTLY! (Score:2, Informative)

          by cecom ( 698048 )

          Ha ha ha. Don't make me laugh! (Through tears, that is). Healthcare in US is atrocious. I am not saying that the doctors are incompetent (I am not qualified to judge that), but they sure don't try very hard. You have to really insist for tests or real treatment - if you just leave it to the doctor the usual prescription for anything is Tylenol.

          That is, only if you are lucky enough to have health insurance. The problem is not only being able to pay for it (most smaller businesses don't pay for their employ

        • There are millions, maybe billions of known diseases. Your doctor cannot possibly know them all. He is an expert on the common ones in your area. Odds are very good that you personally have some rare disease, which your doctor knows nothing about. (Odds are it is a minor thing that isn't worth going to the doctor about)

          There are over 100 different versions of RSI (carpal tunnel is the best known, but not the most common) that you can get. The best treatment for one will often make a different one w

    • We don't subsidize life-saving research, we subsidize enormous lobbying costs and research into medicines to cure non-existent or non-serious diseases like toenail fungus.

      As for software costs varying in other countries, companies already do that. MS even gives away software in some countries just to get market penetration. The idea is to provide low-income countries with free or low-cost technology with the hope that they'll use it to grow their economy, thereby putting them in a position to buy more sof

  • So I can move to Etheopia, (Score:4, Funny)

    by farker haiku ( 883529 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:55AM (#14027083) Journal
    and sell my 3 legit copies of windows and have the rough equivalent of half a million dollars? That's it, I'm moving!
    • You might have a problem if there is a revolution .. I am sure some nice people on the internet will help you get your money out of the country if you write to them.
    • If you are willing to live like the average person, then yes--you could make a months salary here stretch to a few years in a developing country.

      That involves living in the country (not the city which may be MORE expensive than here) and not shopping.

      On the other hand, it may also include a small staff of servants (People will often work for $2-5 a month).

      I'm considering it since America is being raped and mutilated by the Retarded Right--this won't be a very fun place to live in a decade or two.

  • Dragged from behind... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by D-Cypell ( 446534 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:55AM (#14027085)
    Uptake of open source is likely to be much higher in the developing world. The crazy license fees when compared to GDP as stated in the summary is one reason but the lack of an 'existing standard' is another. It is difficult for software like OpenOffice to make headway in the developed world as MS office is fairly ubiquitous.

    Microsoft believe that the developing world will have to pay the fees because they will have to maintain compatibility with those of us in the west. However, it is a subtle balance. If Microsoft price themselves out of the market and the developing world look into alternative, open source solutions the it is likely that the legitimacy of tools such as open office will increase in the west too. Globalization will require internationally compatible software, and when the choice is between a western world that prefers proprietry software and a developing world which cannot afford the same software then it is a case of Microsoft dropping its prices dramatically, or the western world adopting open solutions.

    Interesting times...
    • And you know this to be true because????? ... people in developing countries don't care about licensing cost because there are minimal infrastructures to enforce them.

  • Pricing is not really a factor (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lightweave ( 522226 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @11:57AM (#14027098)
    I doubt that pricing is a factor in third world countries. Since they can't afford the prices anyway, but have to communicate with the rest of the world, the majority will using pirated copies of Windows. MS is probably well aware of this, and that is the reason why the local versions for these countries are also localized in the pricing. What these countries value though, is also the independence, which is the really galling thing for the US. Linux doesn't have a stron relation to a particular country, and if it ever will get one, then there is no big problem. You got the source, you can change it and develop it however you wish. When you start out with a mostly new infrostructure you don't need to think about existing ties, because there are none. So it's cheaper and more reliable to code the appropriate converters for like Word dcouments, then taking the whole OS just to get this stuff, and have the extra advatnages for free.

  • Here in mexico (Score:5, Informative)

    by Spy der Mann ( 805235 ) <spydermann DOT slashdot AT gmail DOT com> on Monday November 14, 2005 @12:21PM (#14027321) Homepage Journal
    we went thru a HORRIBLE crisis on 94, the dollar was valued 3 pesos per dollar. Now it's near 11, meaning software costs about 3 times more.

    Would you be paying 600 dollars for a legitimate copy of Windows XP? And here a very good pay is $1000 dollars a month. It's no mystery then that most software in Mexico is pirated.

    Still it's an awful dependance on foreign products (businesses MUST use legitimate software), which is another reason why i support the OpenDocument initiative.

    • Re:Here in mexico (Score:3, Informative)

      by chochos ( 700687 )
      I think it depends on WHERE you live in Mexico. 1000 dollars a month is a good salary on certain small cities, but certainly not in Mexico City, where the cost of living is much higher, but so are the salaries (usually). A single guy needs to earn about 2000 dollars a month if he wants to rent an apartment for himself (say 500 dollars a month in a so-so area).
      • I meant to say "$1000 dlrs/mo is CONSIDERED a very good salary by EMPLOYERS". In other words, it's very difficult to get it. Most IT jobs here in Mexico City offer you a crappy $600/mo. Are these guys kidding or what?
  • The huge price tags in those countries are probably to combat piracy losses, or force them to piracy. If developing nations just pirate Windows, then when they're developed they're going to pay for Windows.

  • Comparison to GDP ... pretty strange (Score:5, Informative)

    by courtarro ( 786894 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @12:29PM (#14027396) Homepage
    I was planning to write a long comment concerning how retarded it is to compare prices on the basis of GDP [1], which makes about as much sense as comparing price ratios to the ratio of the number of sheep in a country. It's misleading at best, considering the large difference in the populations of the two countries. It's probably more accurate to compare the per-capita GDP [2], which yields the result that Windows (which costs $200 in the US according to the summary writer's numbers) would cost about $15,000 in Vietnam. However, this too is somewhat inaccurate because a) no one pays full price for Win XP Pro non-upgrade, b) You don't have to have XP Pro to get most of the benefits of Windows, and c) MS offers XP Starter Edition in Vietnam, which is supposedly offered for as low as US$15 [3]. Then again, when you figure that price based on per-capita GDP, it still comes to the equivalent of $1120, which isn't small change. So yes, the price is still pretty terrible, but when it comes to the intricacies of currency exchanges, is it fair to pound Microsoft on the basis of price comparisons when they're already discounting a product roughly 75% ?

    Oh wait, free products aren't affected by currency exchanges. Oh well ...

    [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ GDP_(nominal) [wikipedia.org]
    [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ GDP_(nominal)_per_capita [wikipedia.org]
    [3] http://news.com.com/Windows+for+India,+others+wont +run+on+faster+chips/2100-1016_3-5704942.html [com.com]
    [4] 1 - (Price of XP SE) / ((Price of XP Home non-upgrade) * 0.60), assuming SE has roughly 60% of Home's features ... wildly estimative!

  • Methods (Score:4, Insightful)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @12:46PM (#14027572)
    All of human progress including technology is characterized by a repeating cycle of exploration and simplification. I do think that Open Source software is a better way to make software but does not always result in better software.
    What I think is far more important than Open Source methodology is the setting of standards in the first place. Consider all of networking, it was formalized as a framework called OSI (Open Systems Interconnect) and was structured in such a way that it could be modularily extended with minimal disruption to other areas. Imagine what the Internet would be today without the OSI model. I think we would instead of a world wide system would be stuck for quite a few years with a mish-mash of protocols that wouldn't communicate well with each other. What I mean by that is there would be AOL networks, Microsoft networks, Sun networks, and so on and they would only communicate with each other through kludges at best. I don't see that situation as a healthy one at all. Now, given enough time everything clears up so eventually one(ish) networking standard would come to prevail but there would have been a lot more resources wasted to arrive at the equivalent point of a designed from the outset standard.
    I don't think that very many people would disagree if I said that the Internet is an essential service and in many different ways that alone implies a need for regulation. Internet service is run as a free market right now and market forces are great at optimization of variables but are not intelligent and do not always do smart things (beta vs. vhs anyone?). What I'm trying to say is that governments should introduce new standards into the Internet, things that try to make it the most efficient and flexible Information conduit it can be. It's all about where you start and where you end, and with standards as a better starting point than random less effort is expended traveling to where we should be.
    So where I'm going with all this is that the conflict between proprietary and open software vendors could be easier to resolve if regulations were established that in effect stated that all the pipes were going to be the same size so they would fit together. This is where the commons doesn't have to be a tragety, the removal of scarcity from the system does allow for "The Magic Cauldron" effect and that is where Open Source should be. Now, if all the basic information infrastucture is regulated, what does that leave for private enterprise? Content, baby, content. That's where all the real money is ;).
  • Microsoft Windows XP doesn't cost anything in the third world. They will give you a free copy at any internet cafe. Perhaps they will charge you a minimal charge for the CD and their time.

    Same goes for linux or Adobe photoshop.

    All software is practically free in the third world. Access to a computer is another thing.

  • This is the part I was talking about (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Hosiah ( 849792 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @01:04PM (#14027732)
    To get straight to the point: everybody who sits there with a wet-diaper attitude complaining that Linux is too hard, learning any one single thing is too much to ask, I'll pay someone else to do it for me, etc: Well, say howdy-do to your new slave-master! He comes from a village of mud huts, is skinny from eating on 50 cents a day, wears a loincloth and a castaway bandana, and has three teeth left. But he can program cirles around you. He's taking technology into his own hands, the way all the lazy slobs with nothing but fat between the ears won't. And he will control your life with a few keys.

    It's been one of my favorite sayings for going on ten years, now: The technology that you do not master, will master you. What a shame that America won the space race, pioneered the computer race, and then lapsed into barbarism. Quite a shame; what a lead we lost. How glorious we could have been! Check the distros at DistroWatch.com sometime - a growing percentage of them are *NOT* in English! Many are tailer-made for a specific country or language other than the US.

    Well, I'm glad I kept *my* hand in, instead of vegging on the couch watching football. As a second-generation immigrant myself, who taught himself eight programming languages and landed a string of tech jobs with nothing but a little vocational training paid for by his own job, don't expect me to be all sympathetic when the rest of the world leaves America behind. No one can bail you out of this mess, if you won't lift a finger to help yourself.

    A mind is, indeed, a terrible thing to waste, and a person throwing away their mind on purpose wastes their life as well; an even greater tragedy. So I'll sign my rant off with deepest regrets...

  • From the article:

    Even if software is discounted to account for local pricing, it is usually still extremely expensive and there is no guarantee that this discount will be sustained in the long term, says Ghosh.

    It also discusses the price of MS Windows on Amazon.com. This is a straw man. MS Windows is expensive, no doubt about it. But MS is not selling Windows in Vietnam for the same price that they are selling it for in the US. For that matter, few people in the US are paying the Amazon price!! Most fol

  • As a Brazillian citzen... (Score:5, Informative)

    by vhogemann ( 797994 ) <victor.hogemann@com> on Monday November 14, 2005 @01:37PM (#14028012) Homepage
    ... and a government employee, I have one or two things to say:

    First, actualy there is no coerent effort to push OpenSource solutions in the Federal Government. There are isolated efforts, and little coordination between them.

    I work at the Rio de Janeiro Municipal Dept. of Health Care (Secretaria Municipal de Saude), we has been working on a really open framework for the past 3 years, based on Java + Tomcat + Hibernate + Firebird runnig on Debian. It's already used on a social program called Medicine at Home (Remedio em Casa), that delivers medicine by mail for people with diabetes and high blood pressure.

    We had plans to extend this, and use the same framework to devellop a full hospitalar management solution, based on opensource sollutions, and enterprise ready. But it has been put aside, in favor of a project develloped by the Federal Ministery, called SNIS.

    SNIS (National System for Health Information), is a nightmare of ill concepted technologies. Everything is based on proprietary solutions, such as Oracle Forms, Windows and even WindowsCE.

    But the worst part are the special build PCs running WindowsCE, made of an ITX motherboard, 320x240 LCD touchscreen, termal printer, and SmartCard reader. They are meant to be used for data input, such as schedule consults on a ambulatory. The idea is that those custom "thinclients" would be cheaper to mantain than regular PCs... This could be true, if they didnt cost U$900,00 each! And, to make things even worse... the only firm that makes those babies is Procomp, a firm that is owned by DIEBOLD!!!

    So, belive me when I say that OpenSource is a priority for the Brazilian government only when there are political interests behind it.

  • Open source in the developing world (Score:3)

    by c0d3h4x0r ( 604141 ) on Monday November 14, 2005 @03:49PM (#14029164) Homepage Journal
    ZDNet takes an interesting look at open source in the developing world

    "Food wants to be free!"

    "The Gruel Public License has been accused of being communist."

    "My neighbor is illegally selling the food that I grew and shared with my other starving neighbors!"

    "Users just want a life that works, without hunger getting in the way of their primary task."

    "Don't hit on uknown people, even if they look safe, or you might get infected!"

    "Don't complain about how horrible your country is -- jump in and fix it yourself!"

  • I am from a south-eastern European country, where an average salary is cca 200 euros, nevertheless Windows XP Pro is priced at 150 euros (90 e for Home edition), Office 500 e - so much for making things 'affordable' in developing countries... The 'reformist' government even made a deal with Microsoft, making it a sole software supplier for governmental agencies and even educational institutions. So, I'm paying MS through taxes even, and waiting for a day when my kids (which I plan to have ;) ) will be taugh

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