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Microsoft Software IT Linux

Microsoft to Storm Linux Strongholds 319

Posted by Zonk from the rimshot dept.
VitaminB52 writes "Microsoft is only winning about one out of four deals where IT shops are trying to move off of proprietary Unix. To turn that trend around, there are four specific Linux strongholds where Microsoft is focusing its attention." From the article: "After discussing server clustering, Web hosting, and server appliances, Ballmer was cut off by the interviewees before he could identify the fourth. But my guess is that, given the way Ballmer emphasized Software as a Service (SaaS) as a core theme for all the work that's taking place at Microsoft right now, the fourth stronghold of Linux that Microsoft wants is the SaaS stronghold where Linux is the operating system behind a Java-based application server technology ... Ballmer knows he's got a long roe to hoe. 'The day I come in front of the Gartner audience and say we have a better Unix than Linux, that'll be a good day.'"
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Microsoft to Storm Linux Strongholds More

Microsoft to Storm Linux Strongholds

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  • Go away or we will taunt you a second time! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Britissippi ( 565742 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:47AM (#13834775) Journal
    Why does the title give me a mental image of the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where King Arthur and co are trying to get into the Castle... Except it's microsoft execs being taunted by penguins. I really need some more coffee.

    • Re:Go away or we will taunt you a second time! (Score:5)

      by un1xl0ser ( 575642 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:58AM (#13834860)
      I was thinking less coffee. :-P
      • No, it is because this same repeated marketing/rant that microsoft seems to drop out every month or so. People complain about repeats on /. what about ballmers no news like tired old marketing dressed up as news, repeated again and again and again and blah, ad nauseam.

        So it really does have that monty pythonesque feel of penguinistas hurling humorous insults down to the bumbling windrones who are threatening them with their imminent demise yet again ;-).

    • Does this mean us Linux users get to catapult a cow at Microsoft?

    • Re:Go away or we will taunt you a second time! (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:06AM (#13834910)
      Ballmer knows he's got a long roe to hoe.

      Whoa

    • We now return you to... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:36AM (#13835138)
      Gates: Hallo! Hallo!
      Mandriva: 'Allo! Who is it?
      G: It is King Bill, and these are the Programers of the Square Table. Who's castle is this?
      M: This is the castle of my master, Guy de Linus!
      G: Go and tell your master that I have charged myself with a sacred quest. If he will give us food and shelter for the night he can join us in our quest for the Holy OS.
      M: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen... Uh, he's already got one, you see?
      G: What?
      Balmer: He says they've already got one!
      G: Are you sure he's got one?
      M: Oh, yes, it's very nice-a (I told him we already got one)
      G: Well, um, can we come up and have a look?
      M: Of course not! You are Windows types-a!
      G: Well, what are you then?
      M: I'm Linux! Why do think I have this outrageous accent, you silly king!
      B: What are you doing in our computers?
      M: Mind your own business!
      G: If you will not show us the OS, we shall take your castle by force!
      M: You don't frighten us, Windows pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Bill-king, you and all your silly Windows kaniggets. Thppppt!
      B: What a strange person.
      G: Now look here, my good man!
      M: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough water! I fart in your general direction! You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
      B: Is there someone else up there we could talk to?
      M: No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
    • I was lucky I was wearing my corset when I read the headline or I fear my sides might have split.
      Although it is interesting that for many years now many linux related headlines have been something like:"Linux makes inroades into windows territory X".
      Now suddenly we are seeing microsoft execs talking about making inroads into GNU/linux markets. I think this, more than any "get the facts" paper points to how Free systems and open standards are slowly but steadily becoming more common.

  • Why... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MaestroSartori ( 146297 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:48AM (#13834782) Homepage
    ...is Ballmer hoeing fish eggs???

    No wonder he gets angry!

    • Re:Why... (Score:4, Funny)

      by sanctimonius hypocrt ( 235536 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:56AM (#13834840) Homepage Journal
      "Roe to hoe" looke like a new entry for the Eggcorn database [lascribe.net].
    • At least this time, the use of the wrong word is from TFA, and not the Slashdot editors.
    • Or perhaps Long row to ho' would be more accurate.

    • Re:Why... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Robocoastie ( 777066 )
      "long roe to hoe" that should say "long roW to hoe". It's a term taken from agriculture. So sad that people are so removed from agriculture now that they don't what the term means or it would have been spelled correctly instead of after Roe v. Wade, the most common way now that people see that sounding word.

    • Re:Why... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Eccles ( 932 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:45AM (#13835229) Journal
      It's because, due to DRM reasons, the software can only be installed on Western Digital Caviar [westerndigital.com] drives.
    • "...is Ballmer hoeing fish eggs???"

      I think he is huffing paint.

  • JBoss (Score:5, Informative)

    by phong3d ( 61297 ) <phong3dNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:49AM (#13834784) Homepage
    ...the fourth stronghold of Linux that Microsoft wants is the SaaS stronghold where Linux is the operating system behind a Java-based application server technology

    Sure, that makes sense, especially considering the big announcement [jboss.com] last month of JBoss partnering with Microsoft to build up interoperability with Windows servers and the JEMS stuff.

    • Re:JBoss (Score:2, Interesting)

      by sgt scrub ( 869860 )
      When I saw that JBoss announcement I was wondering wtf. How does that tie in with their xcaml builder tool spakle or sprinkle, whatever its called. I keep arguing that Visual Basic "made" their developer market (in the early days). I guess they believe their tool is simple enough to become what visual basic was, but for the SaaS market.

  • time will come (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fak3r ( 917687 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:50AM (#13834791) Homepage
    The thing is, the execs that have to make these decisions are used to having a big company behind their Unix OS and are more comfortable with Windows in general, so just that alone works against Linux migration. Still, time will come as this generation quickly moves up the ladder and becomes the decision makers; the value of Linux and BSD will not be overlooked as it is today. While Linux has captured a good market, this will acclerate much more as the years go by.

    • Re:time will come (Score:5, Insightful)

      by digidave ( 259925 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:04AM (#13834894)
      "...are used to having a big company behind their Unix OS and are more comfortable with Windows in general, so just that alone works against Linux migration"

      Execs are warming up to Red Hat and Novell. They know IBM and other large companies are behind Linux. They are learning that they can get "enterprise" support.

      What will really change things is when today's 15 - 30 year olds are more often the people making the decisions. Many young people have grown up messing around with Linux. High school students are installing it on old computers right now. Once there is a generation of execs comfortable with Linux you'll see major migration rates.

      • Re:time will come (Score:5, Informative)

        by IntlHarvester ( 11985 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:11AM (#13834941) Journal
        Actually, it's already happened. Sun is getting widely dumped in favor of RedHat/x86, who is seen as an top-tier enterprise vendor in Sun's traditional strongholds. As a result they've been forced to adopt a very aggressive x64 strategy.

        • Not just Redhat.. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Savage-Rabbit ( 308260 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:40AM (#13835177)
          ...Novell/Suse on Intel and AMD powered boxen is making major headway as well. On the other hand there is also plenty of MCSE/MCSA people on their way into management and not just Linux fans. There will be a continuing migration from the old UNIX brands like Sun for example to Linux as Linux matures but I would not expect any migration from Windows to Linux to become an uncontrollable Exodus.
      • If these people were using Windows in their phones and in their XBox, then the comfort factor might work the other way.

    • Re:time will come (Score:4, Insightful)

      by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:12AM (#13834949)
      So having Red Hat, Novell, and IBM standing behind Linux means those aren't big names that are recongized?

      More companies can stand behind Linux because is Inclusive. If you don't like the service your getting from one you can simply migrate to another one with minimal pains.

      Try that switching between various versions of windows, then buying the upgraded software, then buying the new tools to control that software.

  • Don't forget about us! (Score:4, Funny)

    by tehshen ( 794722 ) <tehshen@gmail.com> on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:52AM (#13834803)
    "Hey, don't switch just yet! Just hold on a few more years, and we'll provide something like what you want! No, really! Please don't forget about us!"

  • Bubbly GUIs don't go well in the enterprise. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by CyricZ ( 887944 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:52AM (#13834804)
    When it comes to real users, bubbly GUIs like those shown in most Windows Vista screenshots do not appeal. Most serious users will mock such sassery.

    When it comes to configuring Apache or a SQL database, nothing compares to being able to directly edit text files and run services easily from the command line. This is what UNIX, Linux, BSD and Solaris offers.

    They'll at least need to get Monad finished, and it will have to trump the existing UNIX command line in some fashion. But if they keep throwing bubbly interfaces as professionals, the bubbly interfaces will hamper the ability of such professionals to get work done.

    • Rule #1. Appeal to the vain and idiotic bosses.

      The boss likes bubbly then the boss mandates Windows in the server room.

      Tom

      • Bosses and managers also care about productivity. And when productivity drops, they'll come to find out why. If it can be explained to any serious manager that the problem is the interface of the software they're using, then that software will be phased out.

        • Haahahahaha, NO.

          They'll say "will it cost money to switch"

          You say "yes but ..." they cut you off and that's the end of it.

          The rest of your sentence would be "but we'll save a lot in the long run by having better control of our processes, no license fees and regular updates to keep us current." They don't care.

          If it costs $10 today to say $100 tommorow it's not worth it.

          And that's why capitalism fails. Nobody does anything that makes any god damn sense anymore.

          Tom
          • That must just be a trait with American managers. I've primarily worked in the UK and other European nations. With the exception of one, every manager I ever had was responsible and did listen to the employees' concerns. We were able to explain the situation and any solutions in full. And you know what? Those firms always did well,financially and otherwise.

            It sounds like it's just American managers who do not listen to their employees.

          • Re:Bubbly GUIs don't go well in the enterprise. (Score:4, Insightful)

            by krygny ( 473134 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:40AM (#13835181)

            "If it costs $10 today to [save] $100 tommorow it's not worth it.
            And that's why capitalism fails. Nobody does anything that makes any god damn sense anymore."

            Capitalism only fails for those who are a failures at capitalism. A successful capitalist might just as easily elect to spend the $10.

            • The trouble is the corporation structure. A company that's too big for anyone to actually understand and manage, with a structure that insulates it from responsibility, creates a culture where managers like that survive and thrive. And it's not just the US, although we *might* be in the lead on that issue - big corporations are in every country, and increasingly dominant in the worldwide economy.
        • any serious manager

          unfortunately "serious managers" aren't as common as they should be.
      • plenty of gui admin tools for linux and the common Unix(tm) these days, some even mostly useful. If the boss likes gui fooey then can impress him with those, whether or not the people doing the real work use the cstuff. As money gets tighter, eye candy will become less important and actual productivity and ease/speed of administration valued. Those who have a maintenance intensive infrastructure will suffer.
    • Two more years to do that and it'll be way too late. Really, almost everything around the kernel would have to be gutted & replaced with something.

    • Re:Bubbly GUIs don't go well in the enterprise. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:11AM (#13834939)
      Most serious users will mock such sassery.

      I would love to agree with you but unfortunately I can't. There are lots of people in senior IT purchasing positions who really don't understand the technology at all and just know buzzwords and are easily swayed by sales people.

      Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a senior IT person explaining the advantages of a particular web server configuration. I went to demonstrate something on a terminal monitor, and the guy started laughing said "What, it doesn't have a Windows interface? And you're trying to tell me that this is advanced server technology? We're not going to use primitive Unix systems here. We're a state of the art Microsoft shop. You've got to admire Bill Gates, haven't you? You Unix guys crack me up..." and carried on like that for about half an hour. I didn't say anything and decided to just forget ever talking to this guy again.

      • Re:Bubbly GUIs don't go well in the enterprise. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Terrasque ( 796014 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:41AM (#13835190) Homepage Journal
        Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a senior IT person explaining the advantages of a particular web server configuration. I went to demonstrate something on a terminal monitor, and the guy started laughing said "What, it doesn't have a Windows interface? And you're trying to tell me that this is advanced server technology? We're not going to use primitive Unix systems here. We're a state of the art Microsoft shop. You've got to admire Bill Gates, haven't you? You Unix guys crack me up..." and carried on like that for about half an hour. I didn't say anything and decided to just forget ever talking to this guy again.

        Next time you see him, please take a postit note, write with big letters "-1, Troll", and staple it to his head :)

      • Re:Bubbly GUIs don't go well in the enterprise. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ma3oxuct ( 900711 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @09:15AM (#13835527) Journal
        It is a rather big problem that IT "specialists" are only specialists because they know how to navigate a GUI. It is not a surpise that there will be corporate resistence against OSS simply because a number of "IT specialists" live on the fact that Microsoft saves thier sorry unintelligent asses.
      • Most serious users will mock such sassery.

        I would love to agree with you but unfortunately I can't. There are lots of people in senior IT purchasing positions who really don't understand the technology at all and just know buzzwords and are easily swayed by sales people.

        Those people are not "serious users".

        Also, "lots" doesn't counter "most".

      • "What, it doesn't have a Windows interface? And you're trying to tell me that this is advanced server technology?"

        The appropriate response is to laugh and say "Good one, sir!"
      • Most serious users will mock such sassery.

        I would love to agree with you but unfortunately I can't.

        He said most serious users, not managers. Managers are managers because they're too incompetent to be workers, and they are placed within the organization where they can do the least damage.

        Asshats like the one you just mentioned are probably best dealt with by a public competition on a playing field that is unfairly tilted in your favour. His arrogance and confidence in the high techness of windows will mea
    • When it comes to real users, bubbly GUIs like those shown in most Windows Vista screenshots do not appeal. Most serious users will mock such sassery.

      The first thing I do with a new Windows XP box is to set everything back to the plain Windows 2000 "classic" look. It's simple, efficient, and doesn't look like I'm running an OS designed by Fisher Price.

    • When it comes to real users, bubbly GUIs like those shown in most Windows Vista screenshots do not appeal. Most serious users will mock such sassery.

      Believe it or not, MS is listening to this. I only say that because I have some experience with and training on IIS 6. IIS 6 stores it's settings in XML and has command line tools. What's more significant is that in the training courses provided by MS they teach both ways to administer the server, via text file and command line or via GUI.

      Obviously, they ha

    • you do not know how CEO's CFO's and CTO's act do you.

      two presentations, 1 from a pro full of facts and information laid out trating the executives like intellectuals giving them full data.

      the other presentation looks and feels like the superbowl ad's full of flash, style, excitement, devoid of real content or honest numbers.

      the Executives will be all over the flashy presentation. even if it was not right for their needs.

      it's called marketing, and never has quality ever stood over marketability. Just look a

  • Missing small points (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dekortage ( 697532 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:55AM (#13834825) Homepage

    From the article: ...in many of these cluster and grid scenarios -- scenarios that often involve home grown setups with versions of Linux that aren't supported by any of the various Linux distributors -- the people running them are again not incurring any licensing costs on the operating system.

    Yeah... it seems like there is a basic concept here, that the kind of people who need clusters are also the kind of people who can generally take care of them, themselves. Or is Ballmer trying to suggest that MS can make clustering so easy and slick that any old researcher with a few processors could set it up?

    As for the "better UNIX than Linux" quote... uh... what??? Microsoft Unix? Isn't it obvious that Solaris and AIX users migrate to Linux 75% of the time because they're familiar with the basic OS underpinnings? It's a knowledge reuse issue. Does Ballmer really expect MS to create an OS that is similar enough to capitalize on this reuse?

    • How's the saying go? "Those who do not understand UNIX are doomed to reinvent it... poorly."

  • the bloat (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rubycodez ( 864176 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:56AM (#13834836)
    funny to see Microsoft realizing that it's web server offerings have "the bloat". But that's also a huge problem for appliances and high performance computing applications. Writing apps for an API on top of The Bloat is painful too, even with IDE code wizards. And what to do when the Bloated Black Box doesn't behave or act the way you were expecting?
  • why's he attacking a really big fish egg with a garden tool?

  • Another? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Thursday October 20, 2005 @07:57AM (#13834846) Homepage Journal
    From TFA:
    We're coming out with a compute cluster edition of Windows Server
    Typical MS. Instead of building clustering into Server and making Server (gasp!) more robust, they make yet another "Edition" of Windows. I forsee a licensing nightmare in the future. "Sorry boss, we don't have enough cluster licenses so the third node can't be installed." Maybe they are trying to emulate the fragmentation of the various Distros...

  • Linux is like water (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Colin Smith ( 2679 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:02AM (#13834878)
    It's everywhere, it doesn't have or need "strongholds". It simply flows to areas the economics make it useful. The implication of a stronghold is that it's good for one or two things and has to defend against instrusion by a determined foe. Very... Balmeresque... thinking.

     
    • Wherever there's a crack, Linux does seep in. At first, it just looks as though the crack swallowed it up ... but eventually, the Linux that has seeped in there crystalizes a community around it, spreads the crack wider, lets more Linux seep in ....
    • OK, the implication is that Linux has better Tao. I quote the Tao te Ching (#78 of the contemporary semantic edition available on wikisource)

      Who'da thought the old man would be so demonstrably right?

      None

      More gentle and tender than water

      None

      Better in breaching strongholds

      None can replace it

      Gentleness can overcome strong

      Tenderness can overcome hardness

      None

      Ignorant of these in the world

  • How about the 5th Stronghold? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by alucinor ( 849600 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:04AM (#13834899) Journal
    Vendor neutrality. Let's see Microsoft attack that one. Be kind of paradoxical, really.
  • A Unix admin can't take humiliation by jumping off from Unix to Windoss! Linux makes better sense to them than windows anyday!

    • Re:and besides... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Vegard ( 11855 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:34AM (#13835120)
      For me, it has nothing to do with humiliation.

      A Unix admin with some experience has had the opportunity to become more and more effective. It has to do with tweaking the routine, making shell scripts which makes your job much easier, and generally working with the command line. As time goes and knowledge comes, one can have a remarkable arsenal of scripts and tools at hand. Since most stuff is quite portable (you can compile bash or any other shell of your preference for every Unix there is, I think), and the *basic* unix things can be expected to be there always, one tends to rely on it in ones day-to-day tasks, and reuse whatever can be reused as new Unix-machines comes in.

      Windows, however, isn't like that. At least not initially. Good Windows-admins know their way in the GUIs, know exactly where to click, and can navigate quickly to get stuff done.

      I know you can script, you can do *some* stuff from the command line, but it quickly becomes a challenge, and of the wrong kind. You can get a bit of the way with Cygwin and such, but you'll end up constantly trying to make Windows into Unix.

      Never mind that all monitoring-tools, scripts, things set up to run through cron, and all that stuff, has to be changed. No, a Unix admin truly does *not* want to migrate to windows. I know, I am one.

  • We just won a Linux deal here (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:10AM (#13834936)

    New research and office space, ~300 users. MS came in with a partner firm and said they could make all this work for "only" $1.5M over 3 years. 12 servers (Yeah 12!), one each for email/exchange, AD, file, dns, dialup, blackberry, applications, etc.

    I presented something which will cost ~$90K for the hardware, zip for the software and give us more. The users will still have Windows on the desktop and won't care about the backend stuff. And I know this will work, it's a virtual duplicate of 2 other places I set up for this org.

    MS & partner firm hate me.

  • "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story." - Ken Kesey

    Ballmer will say he's got a better Unix than Linux before it's true. I suppose that will be a good day for him. If Linux really can compete with Windows, the next day someone will show that Ballmer is lying.
  • "A long roe to hoe"? Is Ballmer pimping himself out for fish eggs now?

    I guess if it helps him to make the sale...

    • I woulda modded funny if you woulda said:
      "I guess if it helps him to make the scale..."

      Oh God, that's terrible. Glad you didn't say it after all.

  • Microsoft is getting squeezed on price (Score:4, Interesting)

    by xtal ( 49134 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:25AM (#13835030)
    The PC market is pretty mature at this point; things are changing. The only constant is that prices are continuing to fall, and that IS putting OEM pressure on Microsoft to drop prices. It hits with a double whammy I'd bet, as most of their applications are bundled deals.

    I know that the clients I deal with are VERY hesitant to migrate from Windows XP (many have not migrated from Windows 2000 or 95).

    Embedded devices have been a problem for Microsoft; Their XP embedded is much better than CE, but both are overly complicated and do not have a good reputation with people I've worked with, and I don't especially like them either. Even the classic RTOS makers are getting hurt by things like RT linux.

    Web services are another potential front microsoft is going to lose big on; unless MS is able to tie in propietary hooks to IE, they're going to lose there in a big way just by the nature of the product. If it doesn't matter to the user what platform they interact with, the back end can shuffle around between vendors so long as the end user experience remains the same. Does anyone care what OS google runs, so long as it works (Fast)?

    You want to know where Microsoft and Windows have a huge lead? It's in development environments and integration and third party libraries. Even the Mac is a little behind there, but is in much better shape than Linux. Companies like Borland et. al have come a long way, but the tools don't seem to have picked up widespread adoption with the FOSS people.

    Interesting times.
  • How Microsoft increasing competition in these areas is a bad thing. So long as they bring competetive software, not competetive marketing controls.

    -Rick

  • They can never defeat us (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jandersen ( 462034 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:38AM (#13835158)
    - but we can defeat ourselves.

    What I'm getting at is the way a number of important SW projects seem to be run increasingly by people who are no longer interested in listening to what people want, but instead pursue their own pink clouds and visions about what would be 'great' or 'cool'. Fortunately this hasn't hit the kernel as such, but I think there is a clear trend.

    I think the problem is that some of the big, central projects, like GNOME, Mozilla and others have reached a stage where they are no longer really open and approachable to outsiders. In many cases there's a feeling that they see themselves as 'the holy church of ...' who are infallible in their wisdom.

    It's not all doom and gloom - there are many projects where the developer group has kept an open mind. But it requires an ongoing effort to stay that way. We should learn a lesson from Microsoft: In the very beginning they won the hearts and minds of a lot of people, not because their products were outstanding, but because people saw them as something great, something that enabled you to get close to the computer, and from that a lot of great SW was created. Then they got greedy and thought they were the infallible 'Church of PCdom', and a lot of people lost all respect and trust in the company. Now they try to win it back, and perhaps they can in time, who knows.

    But if we blindly follow in their footsteps and commit their errors of hubris, we deserve our defeat.

    • Nonsense. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Aldric ( 642394 )
      A central open source project can become unimportant very quickly if they start making the wrong decisions. Look at xFree86 - x.org forked their codebase and the distros followed. The same would happen with Gnome and Mozilla if they went the wrong way... though Gnome users are quite clearly insane to start with. ;) (KDE user)

  • Missing the cost factor (Score:3, Insightful)

    by t'mbert ( 301531 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:42AM (#13835199)
    Web Hosting companies and SaaS businesses use Linux because they need lots of inexpensive servers. These companies can reduce their costs and increase profits by deploying linux on all their servers for free. This also means they don't have to track licenses and worry about audits from Microsoft in the future. Unless Microsoft either gives away their software, or provides so much extra functionality that it outweighs the cost of the OS, I don't see how they are going to gain in this area.

    That big target that MS needs to hit is the manageability target. We need to be able to install a light OS, pre-configured for our environments, in a fraction of the time it takes today, and it needs to be centrally monitorable and manageable without having to purchase a very expensive commercial package to do so. The entire OS has to be scriptable from the commandline. In server environments, commandline is king.
  • Linux is more similar to Unix than Windows is. It's a similar matter of recompiling some apps.

    It's the easiest migration path.
  • Is why Linux works in all of these "strongholds".

    If you are going to build a server farm, cluster, or any large install with heaps of machines then you already have enough money considerations. Adding the Microsoft tax is just one more expense, so if you can do it with free OS software then you reduce your initial costs.

    The other reason that Linux has a stronghold in these markets is because it works so well there and is very tried and true. Then you have to think why would someone switch from what is alre

  • Consider this. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by kahrytan ( 913147 )
    Has anyone stopped to consider that what hinders linux migration the most is the linux community itself and gaming industry?

    Linux community is often misorganized; programs and information is hard to find. Slashdots sister site, freshmeat, is hard to use. There is to many distributions available. The choices of distributions and programs are boundless to the point where it confuses the consumer. Confuse the consumer and it will run the other direction.

    Moving right along, it is also gaming in
    • Mods, Come-on!!! Informative? How about 'Offtopic'? We're talking about the servers in the workplace here! There are no games in the workplace .. let alone on the servers.

      I suppose I should tip my hat to the troll for getting modded up.
    • Moving right along, it is also gaming industry that hinders Linux growth. The popular games like The Sims, Battlefield, Total Wars, Doom, and Madden 2k6 are not developed on Linux. WINE and Emulation software not the answer. It is only a temporary fix to the larger problem. Linux needs the game publishers and developers behind it.

      I beg to differ.

      There is no reason that Win32 and DirectX cannot be implemented on Linux at least as well as Windows, if not better.

      I'd say Wine has already passed Windows 95, and

    • Re:Consider this. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vadim_t ( 324782 )
      What, you're saying the commercial industry is better organized? Ever tried to look for an uncommon product?

      Sure, common stuff is widely available in both kinds. Say, MS Office, OpenOffice, etc. Big products with big visibility, who everybody at least heard about, and which are easy to see somewhere.

      Now move into more confusing grounds. Let's say, I want a .NET component. Where can I find a say, good database bound grid control, which is cheap, stable, and has the (not many) features I need? This kind of th

  • Inferior Microsoft Clusting (Score:4, Informative)

    by canuck57 ( 662392 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @08:56AM (#13835351)

    Microsoft and Ballmer just don't get clustering at all and I feel sorry for the 25% that got sucked in by M$ BS. Ballmer is bringing spoons to a steak party.

    An OS that is graphical wastes resources in a clustered environment. It wastes CPU in managing it; it wastes electricity in powering it and adds to the total BTU output that raises A/C costs. Forget about the complexities added in that M$ solutions are new, poorly tested and of beta quality when compared to any UNIX/POSIX type OS. None of the aforementioned adds value to the compute task and often detracts from it. Most can be critical project problems if not managed and planned for.

    One also has to look at the software acquisition economics. Say you have a 1024 node cluster. 1000 * 1024 for server licenses is $1M $$. FC4 is out and even if you used commercial Linux you would never pay $1M for this quantity of licenses unless they tossed in the installation and configured the cluster for you.

    There are also other issues such as kernel/network performance and tuning but I will skip this.

    My dream cluster would be few thousand Linux AMD 64 dual core, dual CPU systems with 16GB of ram in a 2 or 4 U package with front loading drives and can be managed without a VGA... hm... this OS/hardware exists without Microsoft!

  • 'The day I come in front of the Gartner audience and say we have a better Unix than Linux, that'll be a good day.'

    We're almost there. Remember the famous saying whose authors is unfortunately lost to time? "Given enough time and money, eventually Microsoft will re-invent UNIX."

  • ...that the summary says "a long roe to hoe." That's how the ZD article has it. Guess very few folks have agricultural experience these days, and hence don't know it's "a long [though I've always seen 'hard' in this cliche] row to hoe."

    Admittedly, they should've put a big old [sic] after it.

    (Well...maybe there is some bizarre fish species Mr. Berlind knows of?)

  • Why Linux On Clusters? (Score:5, Informative)

    by deadline ( 14171 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @09:18AM (#13835560) Homepage
    There are some very good reasons why Linux is on Clusters. Having been in the HPC business for over 17 years, I think the reasons are not very obvious to many outside the field. To spread the word I wrote . Why Linux On Clusters [clustermonkey.net] which pretty much tells it like it is.

    Doug - a genuine Cluster Monkey

  • All I see from them is big talk and threats. That's the easy part. Next you have to deliver on those threats. So far their track record for delivering products on time with promised features is not stellar.
  • Increasingly Microsoft are becoming "just another vendor" and they seem to be ill-placed to adapt to this kind of change in the market. Their recent bemusement at the MA OpenDocument decision is a good case in point. Lecturing your customers on why they're wrong, and maybe a bit stupid, isn't something most companies would try to do.

    So now they want to be a Unix vendor? To push themselves into a market packed with Linux solutions and proprietary companies that survived the 80s Unix battles. The ones that al

  • Even better... (Score:3, Funny)

    by KC7GR ( 473279 ) on Thursday October 20, 2005 @11:21AM (#13836882) Homepage Journal
    ...Is this memorable quote from TFA:

    "...Ballmer responded to a question about how Microsoft plans to deal with the remaining 75 percent by saying "We are not winning more than we're losing."

    Eeeshhh... Balmy needs to go to work writing for the Firesign Theater. [firesigntheater.com] Grammatical talent like that doesn't just (g)roe on trees. ;-)

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