Windows User Experiments With Linux for 10 Days 1259
An anonymous reader writes "Clarence Ladson over at Flexbeta decided to kick Windows to the curb for 10 days in an experiment to find out just how hard it would be to 'quit cold turkey' and move entirely to Linux. It's amazing how many day-to-day operations require the inadvertent use of Windows in our daily lives."
Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
If nothing else, then at least to play a lot of our games.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Interesting)
World of Warcraft (emulated, faster)
Unreal Tournament 2004 (native, faster)
Neverwinter Nights (native, slower)
Warcraft 3 (emulated, slower)
The only game that has tempted me back towards Windows lately has been Battlefield 2, and that should be working in Linux soon.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Interesting)
how did you accomplish this? I tried to run UT2k4 native on several distributions, always making sure I have the most recent nVidia drivers, and UT's OpenGL is DOG SLOW.
Do tell me how you got it to be faster than it is on Windows.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because I don't use Windows that often doesn't mean I hate it. In fact, I don't even dislike it, I really have no problem with most of Microsoft's software. I don't entirely agree with their business tactics, but I give them credit for making software that is easy to use to even casual users.
Most people I run in to that claim they hate Windows are those who are really just frustrated with the OS because they don't spend the time to learn what exactly it is that they are doing. I'm sure many of the
However, I think this idea of dedicating a reasonable amount of time to attempting to learn how to use Linux is a great idea (if of course you have the time and you are genuinely interested). Not to say all the people who participate will stick with it after their ten day trial, but some of them may enjoy the system and either continue to use it on their spare time, to take what they've learned to the Windows community. I'd like to see more programs like this, and less about "schools completely switching to Linux". If you force someone to switch to a more advanced environment when they may not have been comfortable with using a more user friendly one, that's really not going to give you the results you are aiming for. People will become frustrated and lose interest, probably destroying any consideration of looking into the alternative in the future.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Informative)
I gave up for lack of vendor support, keeping my laptop working 100% in Linux was a slight pain, not getting all the neat little things on my laptop that IBM only puts out of Windows was a much bigger one.
Then I needed to switch to Quickbooks 2005 to please my accountant, and that was just impossible (yeah, Caldera can get 2004 running, but not 2005)... so now, I'm done, I gave up... Windows on my laptops & desktops, linux on my servers
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Informative)
I personally WANT to run Linux on the desktop, not because of cost (we pitch computers every 3 years, never actually "buy" either) or for political reasons (although I am not fond of MS's tactics). Its about the freedom to use the software, and how much easier some tasks are in Linux vs. Windows. I can hack around with Perl and automate backups, updates, and ssh into each station, which is much harder in windows. Yes, there are ways in Windows, but I already know the *nix ways, which are more universal.
To me, I can get more done with Linux on the desktop, I just can't run the software I need in a production environment. So the most productive way for us is Windows desktops/Linux servers.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
I would think my grandmother would have the most amount of time to learn such things. People are more open to alternatives than you think, and people like my grandmother who haven't been exposed to Windows all their life would be more flexible to change.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
I put my mom on Linux and she has never used a computer in her life. Yes, she had a learning curve, but that was mostly with how to use the mouse. Now she's burning CDs (easier with Gnome than Windows) and emailing digital pictures (again, easier with Gnome than Windows' shoddy digital camera support).
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
However: the majority of
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Informative)
However, I don't believe other players run the scripts in wmv files. But I could be wrong.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Funny)
Re: Necessary Evil (Score:3, Informative)
(Even if mplayer for some reason can't decode the stream, you can at least save it with mplayer and watch it with $MOVIE_PLAYER_DU_JOUR.)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
Windows is awesome, because it's already done being made.
Which is why there is Windows 95, 98, 98 2nd edition, 2000, 2003, XP, NT, 2003 gold enterprise server plus pack edition 2, endless huge service packs.
I also gotta ask, what kind of geek friends do yu have that only use Linux to "Tinker with an OS that gives you complete control of your Computer" Sheesh, you gotta get some better geek friends dude!
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
And that it has this pesky forced upgrade cycle thing. Oh, software bloat to drive hardware upgrades. And serious secuity issues stemming from an unwise level of integration. Which is an instance of a larger problem: fundamental technical decisions being made by marketing staff rather than techies. And then there are the licencing terms which mean that you don't own your OS, and which reserve for MS the right to monkey around with your system at any future time. And there's proprietory file formats, and vendor lock in. And some of us have concerns about how spyware-friendly windows appears to be, especially in the light of the Claria/Gator aquisition.
But apart from that, you're dead right. The only problem with windows is that it's designed for the Average User. Oh, and a few of us dislike windows because it supports an illegal monopoly which has a well documented history of unethical and anti-competitive business strategies,
But apart from all that...
TFA (Score:4, Interesting)
Indeed.
And if the submitter of the story had taken the trouble to read it, he might have noticed that nearly every link supplied points at Microsoft. Even the link supposedly referring to OpenOffice.org points at a Microsoft propaganda article.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
I was round a friend's house the other weekend, and she fired up Halo 2 on her XBox, and I was struck with how primitive the graphics look. Sure, an XBox is a damn sight cheaper than my PC, but I can see why.
Computers are for serious work.
You elitist snob - my computer is for whatever I choose to use it for, and I'll not have anyone tell me different.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
Computers are for serious work.
You elitist snob - my computer is for whatever I choose to use it for, and I'll not have anyone tell me different.
Ok ok, let me rephrase that on behalve of the grand-parent poster; computers are for serious work AND porn.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not just the graphics that are disappointing. You have to control it with a gamepad too, unless you buy a keyboard/mouse adapter [lik-sang.com], and even then it doesn't quite feel like a real PC FPS.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
No-one ever has a need for games (or at least, only under very specific circumstances that applies to a very tiny minority).
Linux, as it exists today, is a philosophical choice. I'm not supporting Redmond or any of the companies that butter their bread using that damnable product.
I bet you're still supporting illegal (if it were run in America) working conditions and child slave labour by having a computer (if you own a computer
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Interesting)
Bill Gates, regardless of the wonderful things he's done for AIDS research and the like (regardless of his motives, he could have chosen any crappy project, but this was a smart move) he and his company are complete arseholes when it comes to code. If a programme is buggy, there are two choices - you can fix it yourself, or you can get someone else to fix it. Noone else is going to fix it unless it benefits them, and the vast majority of the time, it never benefits Microsoft. Without access to the source code, I can't fix those bugs, I can't make the product better for me, and I don't have access to something I have not just a moral right to, but what should be a legal right to as well. It's akin to buying a house and not being able to change the light bulbs or put an extension on without asking the original architect for his permission.
Microsoft aren't also bastards from a software source code point of view, but also in dodgy business practices, mainly involving bribing schools (ok, harsh word, but that's how I see it) with free software to use their products, and not teach the kids about software alternatives.
What about the purchase of companies who are potential competitors in a field (such as the legendary Amiga programme, Bars and Pipes) and then to shut them down, just so that the competition has no way of surviving - regardless of its superior technology (it took more than 5 years for MS to catch up with Amiga)
Microsoft also seem to be bastards when it comes to software patents, but that's for another discussion
Believe it or not, Microsoft will fail. The only way MS will fail is if someone brings out a better product, and if MS buy those products before they reach commercial success, then they win. But if those products can't be bought, or are restricted development due to the GPL - they lose. The GPL is fairly shitty, but I prefer it tenfold to what we have atm.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
You're right, Microsoft won't be on top forever but will be for a very long time because it's such a well-run and adaptive company. Microsoft is the winner right now because they're outsmarted the competition but nothing lasts forever. That's how the system works.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Insightful)
Umm excuse me? They offered something additonal for free and this limited consumers' choice? No. They were guilty of leveraging their monopoly in one market to exploit another, but they did not limit consumers' choice in this one instance. You were and still are absolute free to run any other browser on Windows - including Netscape. It's just that IE will be sitting there pre-installed. That's only a limitation of choice if you're down to your last 4 MB of space on your hard drive, and the un-bundling of IE would have saved that space for you to use otherwise. But you never have to click on it (unless you run into an ugly asp IE-only site - but again THAT is not MS's fault. The site should support multiple - and standards compliant - browsers).
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Informative)
Having an economic monopoly does not mean having 100% of the market, it does mean having such a large majority share of the market that you can basicly dictate your conditions to the market.
Regardless of it being 75,80 or 90% marketshare, MS has an economic monopoly in several software related markets, regardless of the existance of Linux or other systems.
I suggest you go learn a bit about what an economic monopoly is, and while at it, take a peek at what the various laws have to say and maybe remind yourself of the fact that MS has been convicted of using its monopoly in illegal ways. MS being a monopoly with illegal business practises is not just the opinion of quite a few slashdot readers, it is something which is defined by law and confirmed by courts.
Oh and I suggest rereading a few of the slashdot stories about this thing of Apple tryng to stop people from running OS X on generic x86 hardware, this time actually try to read things, you may notice a lot of people complaining about it.
Microsoft in schools (Score:5, Interesting)
It is my understanding that Microsoft will ONLY give schools "free" software if they agree not to use software from other vendors, including Linux and other free and/or open source software.
I don't think that should be even legal.
Re:Microsoft in schools (Score:4, Insightful)
Not that I'm defending Microsofts Business practices, although I'd have to say that we could all learn something from Bill Gates, the guy is obviously successful in what he does.
- paul
Re:Microsoft in schools (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft gives schools the software, takes a tax break for it, and then locks the schools down to using only their software, which benefits them financially in the long run.
And after the school has removed all Linux and gotten rid of the techs that used it, MS may NOT give them more software the next time they need it. In fact, they may force them to buy it.
This has happened. MS made a school remove GIMP, then refused grant to cover purchasing Photoshop.
Of course, I'm not saying this isn't brilliant. MS gives the school a disc which costs 27 cents and "bills" the US Gov for list price (through IRS), and creates a whole new generation of MS button monkeys.
I just think it's laughable to call it "charity."
Re:Microsoft in schools (Score:5, Interesting)
it is a lack of punishment when Bill Gates himself has said this about piracy "... about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." [news.com]
It's pretty obvious he wants to get the schools and pupils addicted on this free software
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Interesting)
Unfortunately, this is actually a reality in many countries, my own (the Netherlands) included.
You see, copyright law states that artists can refuse others the right to "deface" their artwork. Since architects have somehow turned from engineers to artists, they have the right to prevent their customers from making adjustments to their buildings.
Thankfully, many architects don't use this right, but the ones with the biggest egos (the really expensive ones) do. My university built a huge library a couple of years ago, which cost them a couple dozen millions of euros. Turns out they're not even allowed to rearrange the bloody "designer" desks!
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Informative)
And don't dare mod this as funny! It's true!
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, "if you don't have any need for Windows, you no longer have any need for Windows". Very profound, I'm sure.
Clue time: anyone citing Windows games as a reason for sticking with Windows probably thinks they still have a need for those games. So, uh, what was your point again?
I'm not supporting Redmond or any of the companies that butter their bread using that damnable product.
Good grief, I can hear the froth bubbling around your mouth from here. Get a grip, man. Windows is not the work of the devil: it's an operating system. Possibly not the best operating system in the world, but not in any way evil. Look, I use it all day and never once have I smelt sulphur or heard the screams of the damned coming from my computer speakers. It hasn't even murdered my family yet. All in all, it's doing pretty well for something you seem to view as the embodiment of Antichrist.
I'm also interested to know how you manage to survive while not supporting any company that uses Windows. For example, that pretty much rules out buying food from anyone apart from the Amish.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Funny)
I've had the same problem. Do I need to change something in my control panel to get this feature to work?
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:4, Funny)
But Microsoft would like to emphasise that it's still definitely worth buying Vista, for all the... y'know... stuff.
Re:Necessary Evil (Score:5, Insightful)
There are plenty of people out there who don't give a damn about games, video editing, office apps, development tools, scientific programs, or databases. That doesn't somehow invalidate the needs of those who DO use those types of applications. Use whatever works best for you. Too often Linux users are trying to push the view point of how few sacrifices you'll need to make when switching to Linux. In reality, for people to truly switch from one platform to another, they need benefits, not a shorter list of things they're loosing.
10 days? (Score:4, Funny)
Now, if only that were likely. :)
Re:10 days? (Score:4, Insightful)
So seriously, what's so great about windows that linux or OSX can't do for you (obviously solaris isn't as geared to a few of these things, but still...)? Calendaring? Email? Managing your website? Writing letters and documents and spreadsheets? Personal wikis? Photo albums? Dinky little flash games? Instant messaging? Watching movies? Listening to music? Making music? Coding? P2P/Bit Torrent?
Exactly what is there that you can't do on a non windows box?
Re:10 days? (Score:5, Insightful)
Today the Microsoft database index at work ate itself and I'm waiting seven hours for it to re-index a couple of million documents. I said to one of the guys trying to fix things, "How come every time you guys tell me something bad it begins with the word 'Microsoft?'"
Re:10 days? (Score:4, Insightful)
Instead, under Linux, you get to play:
"Guess which driver is not supported today."
For instance, when I did a kernel upgrade, I lost video driver support, my vid driver was too old, OK, go get another one, hey look, my video card was NO LONGER SUPPORTED by the newest video card driver.
Gee thanks Nvidia! Because we all know that Linux is primarily about gaming and that no one would dare use an OLDER video card on a Linux box? Right?
Granted this particular problem is Nvidia's fault, but then there are the sound drivers. . . .
Oh and why does something as simple as getting a frame buffered console require me to recieve conflicting advice on exactly which packages to emerge, and then editing of a script file?
Installing Java on Linux, hey, just as much fun! Only 3 or so files to edit in order to get the paths setup right. Don't count on advice from any ONE site since every distro is different! Fuuuun....
Re:10 days? (Score:3, Informative)
Man, you're taking me back. I haven't had a decent game of BSoD since 1999. I just can't get it to run properly in Win2k, and I hear XP is even worse at it.
Actually, the game is still there. It's just called "Spontaneously Reset" now, so you don't get to see the blue screen.
"Guess Which Driver Is Causing A Problem Today."
Haven't they ported that one to Linux now? I'm sure I've seen a lot of comments bitching about how unstable NVidia's Linux drivers are. Or possibly ATI'
Re:10 days? (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps you should have read the fucking article, instead of just the blurb. You're question would have been answered.
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
Looks like that a database is one of those windows-only thi
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Wow... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember the bank tech coming in one day to service the ATM machine in the cafeteria. As it booted up, you could see the OS/2 logo. I asked him about it and he kinda mumbled that he tried not to let people see that.
Re:Wow... (Score:5, Funny)
Not only is it pretty much the most popular desktop environment available with this distro but it's also the most recommended to new users as it offers a very clean and attractive GUI (general user interface).
Coral link (Score:5, Informative)
coralized link [nyud.net]
Future submitters: PLEASE PLEASE use coralized links! It's easy -- just add
Re:Coral link (Score:4, Funny)
There is a problem with the database that is preventing the site from working.
An email has been sent to the administrator notifying them of the problem. Please try again later.
-> Hum must have went back to Windows and blue screened.
Re:Coral link (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Coral link (Score:5, Informative)
The google cache of the full article (printable version) is available here [google.com]
He Brings Up Good Points (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll list a few big ones.
Games, of course.
Certain programs.
Family.
Re:He Brings Up Good Points (Score:3, Insightful)
Look, we all know there are programs (both applications and games) that run only on Windows. That's not any news. What would be MUCH more interesting is to hear exactly which applications you must use in a windows environment.
10 days is not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe this is true at first, however after several months of using Linux I began to see the FOSS alternatives to using windows and now I haven't had windows installed for about 9 months.
It seems like switching to Linux should be more gradual. Linux has a steep learning curve. If you try to jump in all at once your more likely to get a bad impression when you can't figure out how to play a dvd, or even 'mount' the cdrom drive.
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing that I've got out of it though, is that my windows environment is becoming more and more open-source-filled. I cant believe I was so used to using WinZip and pressing "Accept" everytime I wanted to open a zip file, etc.
Whenever I look for any kind of program now I go straight to sourceforge. I only started doing this because of my rounds of Linux using.
Eventually, Ill master Linux and never come back. But until then I think Ive got it pretty good with the "best of both worlds"
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:4, Informative)
In the future, try adding the new kernel as an additional boot option, rather than replacing the old one. Trivially simple to do with LILO and I would presume the same with Grub, though I've never used Grub myself. you should have System.map-$VERSION, config-$VERSION and kernel-$VERSION in your /boot directory, open up your LILO config file (usually in /etc/lilo.conf), copy and paste the block of text that you're using for your current kernel, and replace the version numbers, label it something that you'll recognize. Save the file and run lilo as root, it'll update the MBR and you'll see a new option the next time you boot. If the new kernel doesn't boot, you can just pick the old kernel and try again.
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:5, Interesting)
After the system arrived, I installed my favorite distro slackware on it. When I tried using it as a desktop, many programs under KDE crashed very often and predictably. The crashes went away when I switched to another distro. I tried several. There was still one problem left. Anything that used OpenGL with hardware acceleration would crash the system within a minute, on every distro I tried. This problem went away with my switch to Ubuntu Hoary last year when it was still in development, and my system has been pretty stable ever since, due to bug fixes that came with their switch from XFree86 to X.org. I have yet to find a development environment for Linux that I really like, but it hasn't really stopped me.
I use both Windows and Linux at work, but at home my Windows PC has collecting dust, and its keyboard is usually buried under a thick pile of paper, wrappers, equipment, and soda cans. At work, we're pushing towards open source mostly due to increasingly unjustifyable licensing costs, and sometimes due to security issues or simply superior software quality. There's only one program left that we're unable to migrate. A third party ERP system can lock a company into Windows desktops for many years.
I've never managed to render a Linux system unbootable, short of hardware failure. Even then, at work we have a Linux server that's been running smoothly with BAD RAM while we wait for the replacement to arrive in the mail. Linux can be configured to work around the bad parts, which allowed me to bring the failed production server back up within the hour. Another non-production server lost both hard disks in the same week, which would have gone unnoticed if I haven't checked the logs because it just kept working, having enough cache to serve requests from ram. After that happened I've been checking logs and hard disk temperature twice a day now with a simple script that polls all our servers at once. I'm not an IT person, but somehow my programming job has gradually expanded to include absolutely everything that nobody else knows how to do, whether or not I knew how to do it either.
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I want to mount my CD? I expect to just put it in and it to be available. Same with my DVD. I expect to put the DVD in and click "Play DVD" or "Open [Totem] Movie Player".
Ok, I personally don't think that Linux installation is going to come anywhere close to be installable by the average computer user - it's *not going to happen*. But for the large majority of things people use it should "just work".
Take music for example. I want to play my mp3s.
Hurdle 1: I can't find them because they're on my WinXP/NTFS partition.
(Solution: An init script (or preferably, an install module) to scan for non-ext3 partitions and automatically add them to fstab.)
Hurdle 2: I find my music player. Why won't it play my mp3's? Licence? What licence? I don't have to get a licence on my xyzfoobar player in Windows.
This is just one of *many* situations that need to be resolved before users start sticking to Linux.
Having said that, the last year or two have made leaps and bounds in terms of user-friendlyness, but there's still much room for improvement.
At present, Linux for the end user lacks the polish it needs to be usable by the majority of PC users. I use (and love) it, but I seem to be able to see from the viewpoint of the average user - something many geeks cannot do.
Troll (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:10 days is not enough (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is (Score:5, Insightful)
So of course I do the natural thing, I take the path of least resistance and just leave my machine in Windows, espically whenever I get busy.
Now I'm willing to do this, I'm a tech worker, it's my job to understand how to support our systems. However how is this supposed to apply to an average user? They are going to be very unimpressed if you tell them "Ya well you can do some of what you want easily in Linux, the rest you'll just have to figure out or do without." They are likely to just go back to Windows perminantly.
I think it's fairly difficult for most people to switch if there isn't an ideological reason behind it. You just don't find any advantages as an end user. For some it might seem like it initally, those that are spyware'd all to hell will probably find Linux a relief initally since it'll be faster and work stable, but soon, very soon, other annoyances and problems will creep in and they'll be frustrated all over again.
This is really the area that Linux needs to improve in, if the objective is to penetrate the mass market and really compete with Windows. It needs to be easy for completely non-technical people to switch over. This is getting more true as MS is slowly erroding advantages Linux once had.
Time was, Windows just wouldn't stay up. It wasn't a question of if it went down, just when. Not the case anymore, a good XP system will basically never crash, and it'll handle patching while you sleep so from a user perspective, it's never down. Likewise spyware and exploits were/are major problems, but they are clamping down on that too. The included firewall stops nearly all automatic worms, and their spyware tool is really quite slick and I imagine will make a major dent when it is in a release state.
So really what Linux needs to concentrate on is an easier end-user experience. Now leaps and bounds have been made in that area. I remember the first time I tried Linux in 1996 and had to get a friend who was an expert to help me even get it installed, now for most research systems in the department I drop an FC3 CD in, install, patch, setup LDAP, run our automount script and call it good. However there's still a long way to go.
One thing, for example, is the install process. For almost all Windows software, including most OSS, the install process invloves clicking on an executable which launched a nice graphical installer. This walks you through any options, and then does all the install needed. Any libraries that need updating are updated, all settings are taken care of, etc. In Linux, things are usually at best a make script. Now when it works, it's pretty easy. Config, make, make install, what's so hard about that?
Well it's intimidating. Normal users, and even us tech peopel that can't program, get intimidated by the compiler. It's something that's way outside the experience of normal users. And then what if something goes wrong? I've had make scripts fail and generally I'm sunk, I don't understand the errors because I don't know C or compilers. Imagine how an artist feels.
So things like that really need to be improved, if Linux in teh mainstream is a goal. Most users won't give a new OS months, many won't even give it a week. It'd better do what they want for word go, or they'll dump it.
all depends (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux strikes me as more the OS of choise for tech types (engineers, IT pros, etc), as its much more robust at those type of applications than Windows.
I think it all depends on the environment.
There are alternatives (Score:3, Insightful)
I functioned as a business professional for several years using a Mac, without any serious problems. I found that Office was the determining factor. Because there was a Mac version of Office, the OS was of secondary importance.
As more and more office functions are filled by web apps, the determining factor will become the development tools used in the creation of said web apps. IT departments th
Re:all depends (Score:5, Interesting)
I am a business professional. My desktop is 100% Linux (Ubuntu) and has been for a long time. I've never bothered to tell anyone I was using Linux, and as far as I'm aware no one has any clue. My pain level is zero. (Actually, my pain level is "negative," since from time to time tasks crop up like mass file renaming, which I get done in a few moments but the Windows users take hours and hours to do. Manually. One file at a time. For hundreds and hundreds of files. THAT is pain.)
My Wife, my mother and Linux... (Score:5, Insightful)
I put my aged PII 400MHz home computer over to Linux a few years ago (well 2002 actually) and since then my Wife has suffered not a single case of having to reboot using the plug-socket, not a single crash and not a single failed application.
Until she got her iPod... so now we are buying a new PC, just so she doesn't have to use my work machine for iTunes.
My mother had an horrific attack of the virii which has meant I had to do a complete re-install of windows, and I've lobbed SUSE onto the other partition to help the recovery next time. My mother has elected to use SUSE to access the internet, and just go into Windows when she has to use the software from work.
My wife does email, internet, work processing and accounts, pretty much the same as my mother. BOTH have faired perfectly well with Linux (SUSE), with less hassle to me than on Windows.
And here is the kicker... installing Windows on a SATA drive was a pain in the arse, my mothers machine having no floppy drive and Windows not being able to detect the SATA (even in an SP2 install) SUSE 9.3.... had no issues and went straight on.
I couldn't WORK on Linux yet... but for the majority of INTERNET users who just want EMAIL, a browser and OpenOffice.... it really doesn't matter.
Re:My Wife, my mother and Linux... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:My Wife, my mother and Linux... (Score:4, Informative)
That being said, I have 3 iPods, a third gen, a fourth gen, and a fourth.five gen color, all 20GB. Only the third gen syncs with gtkPod without much error, and it's running an extinct version of the iPod firmware.
I tried interfacing with the newest one, and it completely destroyed the filesystem on the iPod. Don't ask me how, but my attempts to plug it into a Mac and a PC both failed, so I had to flip it over to iPod-harddrive mode, and format the bastard. Luckily I didn't lose anything, but it could have been catastrophic.
iTunes is really the best way to use an iPod. If you've got a problem with that, don't buy one. If you don't have a problem with that, like myself, and many I know, buy one, and be happy. And now that iTunes works with Linux [codeweavers.com], there's no reason not to use it.
Office environment (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't had many problems at all. Our main issue was that we still use a native OS/2 application, and because we have ditched OS/2 we need a remote desktop connection to a Windows box to then launch Virtual PC and our OS/2 app. Not the easiest and lightest of setups, but it works.
We need Wine for a few apps too, but they run fine under it. Sometimes I'll get Lotus Word Pro or 1-2-3 documents that I cannot return in their original format as Open Office won't let me save in
(If after all those hints you cannot guess what company I work in, you really need to think harder...)
Anyhow, maybe I wasn't sure after home use how easily Linux could be considered in an office environment, but our main problem really is some intranet pages being designed for IE only.
I eventually got the first page of that article to load, which leads me to think the author may be criticising how difficult it can be to get everything working - but if you have built a solid image, there is no reason why Linux should be any more difficult to use than Windows.
Each tool for the right job (Score:3, Informative)
So I bit the bullet and spent several days installing and setting up Gentoo. Every step of the way was a learning experience. My reason for switching to linux is because I was bored with windows and I wanted to force myself to learn something new. So now it's approaching the end of another summer. I'm sitting in front of two computers running Gentoo.
However, both have windows XP on them. I have crossover office on each computer and the apps that are supported run fine. I'm a student and usually I can get by with openoffice, but sometimes I need office. I just got an ipod photo and I've been trying to get it to work seamlessly between windows and gentoo. It's been a struggle with iTunes, gtkpod and ipodslave for KDE, but I'm working on it.
I tried the OSX86 last weekend and I was impressed. I tried windows vista beta and I was very unimpressed. There is never going to be a magic bullet OS. Each will have it's uses. I've learned that it is mostly dependent on the applications for it. If the vendors made perfect linux versions of every program I needed, it would be a lot better. It takes time to figure out which OSS programs are just as good as the windows counterparts and which ones are shit. 10 days with any operating system isn't going to mean much.
And I have not had a chance yet to read the article bc it's down at the moment.
qemu + winXP (Score:4, Interesting)
QEMU is so good, it not only does her needs, but I've started playing around with
The speed is excellent, it works with the CD, SAMBA to the host machine (home drives) and sound...it's got everything we want...plus, running full screen on a seperate login it's just like if you partitioned the drive except that you can switch in real time using KDE 'switch user' feature and share data between the two by making your home drive a samba network drive in windows.
Linux and Windows finally operating seemlessly together, thank you QEMU
An idea for teaching Linux in schools (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember in elementary school, once a week or so my class would be herded into the computer lab to learn how to use a word processor and spreadsheet app on the school's Apple IIe computers. I spent a lot more time playing Oregon Trail and playing around with BASIC on those computers, but I definitely learned the underlying concepts about using a word processor or spreadsheet, and was able to really easily transition to Wordstar 5 for DOS and later other apps.
It wasn't so much about typing a letter to the editor or whatever we were doing back then, as it was about being comfortable accomplishing a certain set of steps with a computer.
I wonder, then, if you had 30 third grade students in a computer lab, 10 using Windows, 10 using Mac OS, and 10 using Linux (perhaps Red Hat? whatever is dominating is probably wisest), could you ask them all to accomplish essentially the same task? Of course, I mean that they should rotate to each machine, although not necessarily during a single class session, and be exposed to all the machines.
Any teachers out there? Does this idea make any sense?
A slight ammendment to your idea... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:An idea for teaching Linux in schools (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:An idea for teaching Linux in schools (Score:5, Insightful)
I know it is, but that just requires that we explain our requirements to the public school boards that computer-educated teachers work with the computers for grade school students.
Linux / Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
The painful switch-over (Score:5, Interesting)
Before all the BSD/Linux/OSX users jump me, let me tell you I'm desperate to get off Microsoft software, however, I can't very well dump 10 years of computing experience and instantaneously learn 10 years of FreeBSD.
My 1 year plan of attack:
1) Start to use Open Source software on Windows
2) Move exclusively to Open Source software on Windows
3) Move over to FreeBSD
Right now, I'm almost at stage 2. I'm waiting for a decent calendaring solution and I'm good to go*.
Everything else I use is now Open Source. It's been a painful 8 months but I'm working hard to give this a chance.
Now, the interesting part comes when you start to move over to a new OS. It's a complete nightmare!!!
I've heard a lot of people say it's as easy as putting in the RHL disk and clicking a few buttons and I agree. It is, so long as you're only wanting to do office grade work!
Don't get me wrong, I can install RHL, Debian, FreeBSD and run it fine so long as I only want to use the web, send email, create some artwork, etc but if I want to install PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, Postfix, BIND and connect to a network (Samba) then I'm going to be here for a good few months just to get it working (properly and securely - not hope-and-pray).
Once I've got it working, should something go wrong, I'm down for another day/week if I don't understand how things work.
I am an Open Source advocate but I don't for one second believe a switch-over is going to be easy and neither should anyone else here.
What we need to do is manage people's expectations of moving over. If you think it'll take less than 6 months to do the switch, then you're probably not a developer and I imagine most of the Windows users here do some form of development.
Anyway, enough of the ranting. I look forward to the day I can finally switch over.
Here's a big thank-you to all the Open Source developers who work so hard to give us our freedom!
* I still have to use IE for work to make websites 'work'.
Microsoft Security Bulletin Released (Score:4, Funny)
MS08-021
Windows User Experiment Could Promote Linux Code Execution And Loss of Revenue (8399801)
Summary
Who should read this bulletin:
Users running Microsoft ® Windows ®
Impact of vulnerability:
Run code of users choice
Maximum Severity Rating:
Critical
Recommendation:
Windows Systems administrators should apply nicotine patch immediately.
10 days is not enough time to learn a new system (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows: Tries to get in your way, force you to do things its way, doesn't provide a decent option to de-dumb globally. Office is a nightmare of over-featured bloat that most users will never use. When something goes wrong, it takes ages to fix because whilst you know what is wrong, Windows tries to stop you fixing it.
Linux / FreeBSD: Works well. If you know your stuff, it is easy to fix stuff and set up. I've had issues with upgrades however, after some time it will eventually mess up. Desktop applications are a mishmash of good and bad, or poorly thought out in a single crucial aspect whilst being very powerful.
Mac OS X: Doesn't get in your way. Allows you to actually get work done. Many applications are much more specific in their task (alternatively known as not having as many features, but the features that it does have actually work as you expect them to). Dashboard sucks. I don't think it can be beaten as an end-user operating system, however I can see that it lacks certain things that corporations would like in a desktop computer.
Computers come down to personal preference and what you are used to. If you only know how to do something in Windows and you aren't of a mind to sit down and learn how it is done in Linux or Mac OS X, then you are simply going to state that you need Windows for that task. Despite the frustration that you might have with it in Windows (e.g., tables in Word).
One thing that I like about Mac OS X is that it generally eschews the dozens of small icons in a toolbar that you can't really make out that well and thus never really use. Applications like Pages, Keynote, Mail and so on have a few buttons that bring up or hide inspectors or sidebars. A good design guide means that you'll always know how to do the common tasks (save, open, print) and you don't need a small icon that is hard to hit (Fitt's Law) present.
However it will take you a while to get used to this alternative way of working. Once you are there though, you will know you are more productive and find computing much less of a drag. What is unfortunate is that this goes for migrating from Linux or FreeBSD as well as migrating from Windows.
Also there are issues such as Logitech's APPALLING lack of support for Mac OS X for their webcam range. Canon's DIRE support for their scanners (hurrah for ScanVue). Samsung's AWFUL support for their printers (can't use my 1 year old ML-2250 under Mac OS X, but you can under Windows and Linux, sheesh). Now that the Mac seems to be having a small revival, maybe some companies will spend a little time on supporting it. When you run into something like this, it can be very demoralising, and appear as a negative against the OS.
But is there anything I *must* use Windows for? I can't think of anything in my line of work that couldn't be done in Mac OS X. However I think that there are big gaps in the software range for Linux, such as good finance/accounting/tax applications. Specialist software is another area where Windows can have a stranglehold, and if you use some of that, then you'll have issues.
And the other big myth: (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, yeah? Tell me, Windows loyalists, did you ever get Outlook Express to understand the concept of multiple email accounts and different stationary/spam filters for each? Figure out how to stop Windows from dumping icons all over the screen? Get rid of the MS Network and Network Neighborhood because you never use it? Get Windows to recognise your new graphics card without a struggle? Stop Real Player from firing up at startup and immediately demanding your whole machine's resources? Completely remove software you uninstall, without having to go in and manually delete folders? Confess to you where it hides ALL the cookies and let you clean them ALL out? Not show the taskbar?
Yes, I'm sure everybody's done some of what's on this list... but you weren't born knowing how? Right? You had to...guess what?...READ some DOCUMENTATION to learn how to make it do what you want! After all, if Windows is just SO-O-O-O silly easy, why were manuals written about it "for Dummies" flying off the bookstore shelves from 1985 to 1995 or so? Why would people need things simplified to the "Dummies" level if it were as simple as could be, already?
Linux comes with it's own "for Dummies" docs, free. Man pages, info pages, html docbooks, et cettera ad infinitum. Just have a gander through /usr/share/doc and you learn everything in Linux just like the "for Dummies" books in Windows!
Re:already /.ed (Score:3, Funny)
Re:already /.ed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:already /.ed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:already /.ed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Myth TV? (Score:3, Informative)
I had no luck with it, and went to ubuntu, but that should do it.
Re:COM (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny that you'd mention that, as COM and DLLs are just a weird hack for implementing shared libraries and IPC (inter-process communications.) *nix has had that functionality since the mid-eighties.
About five years later, Windows 3.0 was released. :)
Re:COM (Score:3, Insightful)
DLLs are essentially shared libraries. Just because they are different does not make them a "weird hack". Guess what: Windows is DIFFERENT than Unix, and the Unix way is not the only way. What makes shared objects on Unix somehow better?
Furthermore, how does some Unixes having shared libraries and IPC for twenty years relate to Windows? Windows has been around for 20 years, and the NT line is less than 15 year
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:4, Insightful)
There is NO WAY IN HELL NeoOffice/J or OpenOffice replace the MS office suite. No matter what people claim, they still break plenty of office docs that get emailed to me, and forget about replacing powerpoint. Apple's Keynote does a pretty good job but isn't anywhere near as feature-filled as powerpoint. I try to use alternate software as much as possible, but I keep a copy of MS office installed too.
And there's still the occasional app I run on my windows box at home that just doesn't have a replacement on OS X. I love my mac, but we're a long way from a M$-free world.
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it would be hypocritical of myself (and others) if I / they complain about GPL infringement when the complainers themselves don't care that they themselves are committing acts of infringement themselves.
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:5, Informative)
Are you nuts, or something?
I may be a Linux user, but I've had to put together my share of presentations. I've used Powerpoint, I've used OpenOffice. But then one time, while I was borrowing a friend's Powerbook G4 for a few weeks, I put one together in Keynote. It is, at the very least, the best presentation software ever written, and what's more, it's a pleasure to use. Aligning elements is easy with smartly-coded guides, the output for the presentations are wonderful with elegant themes and fonts, and the transitions are elegant with accelerated 3D transitions and such. But more than anything else, the damn program just "got out of my way." I didn't spend hours tweaking this or that text element a few pixels to the left or right. The damn presentation just came out beautifully even though I had never used the application before.
Powerpoint more featureful? Give me a break.
Featureful does not mean works better (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:5, Informative)
Choose your poison
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:3, Informative)
And somehow this makes Word better!?
Re:I kicked Windows to the Curb, too! (Score:5, Funny)
[..]we're a long way from a M$-free world.
Actually, we're there now, considering there is no company on the planet called 'M$'
Re:10 days? (Score:3, Insightful)
My DVD-ROM drive came with my PC when I originally got it from Gateway. I've moved from the Gateway-installe
Re:Just re-installed Linux...not happy (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
And it's sad b/c it's filled with nothing but non sequitur, meaningless garble. There's no real reasons here, just a bunch of whiney excuses. You're obviously a student and a young one at that, evidenced by your "Chewbacca Defense" [wikipedia.org]. There's nothing here to respond to in detail b/c it's all crap. There's no detail to speak of!
Of course, the funniest/most pathetic statement of all is your line about Mac a
Even better link... (Score:5, Informative)
This link has entire story cache'd, and looks more like original site. Enjoy.
Re:I did it too... (Score:4, Insightful)
Before Linux, I used Unix. I was very pleased that I finally could run a decent OS on my home system. Before that, the alternative was MS-DOS.
When Windows appeared as an OS (first Windows 95, later NT) I found myself in the same situation as you are now. With Linux, I could do anything, to use Windows beyond "install it and click on some things" I needed to read a lot. And there was not even sourcecode to read, only "user manuals" that often spent more than 60% of content on basic principles like how to insert a floppy disk.
So indeed, it is not really a difference between Linux and Windows, just a difference between what you know and what is new.