Australian Linux Trademark Holds Water 408
Seft writes "The Inquirer is running a story in response to the recent Linux trademark news in Australia which was previously covered on Slashdot. The story was dismissed as a hoax by many, but now it seems that Linus Torvalds is dead serious." John 'Maddog' Hall stated for the article that the move was not about getting a slice of anyone's action but purely to protect the quality of products that utilize the Linux name.
Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:5, Funny)
Quick, someone check the kernel changelogs to see if someone checked in any self-patenting code!
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:3, Funny)
Mark
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:2)
n.
A play on words, sometimes on different senses of the same word and sometimes on the similar sense or sound of different words.
intr.v., punned, punning, puns.
To make puns or a pun.
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:2)
Lesson 2: Sense of Humour Needed (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Lesson 2: Sense of Humour Needed (Score:2)
Re:Lesson 2: Sense of Humour Needed (Score:5, Insightful)
Because setting up, administrating and defending a trademark are not free. You have to cover the actual cost. Or are you suggesting that Linus should pay out of his own pocket the expenses involved for dealing with commercial entities using his trademark.
Re:Lesson 2: Sense of Humour Needed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:3, Funny)
The author needs to close their bottle o' sauce during working hours.
Re:Oh god, 4chan is invading australia (Score:2)
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:2)
yes... far nicer than the wintroll "open sores" one...
Re:Lesson 1: Proof read (Score:3, Informative)
1/8 of 0 is still 0.
Rabid (Score:2, Funny)
BttF (Score:3, Funny)
More at Groklaw (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More at Groklaw (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050816
Very interesting read, IMHO.
Re:More at Groklaw (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, why not give the name to the FSF? They do a pretty good job managing other people's trademarks, without charging an arm and a leg off the community for it.
But seriously... This is nuts. I live in a country where $200 is a bit more than the average monthly
Re:More at Groklaw (Score:4, Informative)
You only need to pay the fee if you are using the word "Linux" in your own trademark. If you were a non-profit wishing to distribute Magada Linux, you could either trademark "Magada Linux" and pay the fee or trademark "Magada" and not pay the fee.
You can still market Magada Linux either way.
Re:More at Groklaw (Score:5, Informative)
In other words, not-for-profits are NOT going to be shaken down, they can continue to use, comment on, write about, and give away Linux all the want. But if they want to create a for-profit business that will use "Linux" in the name, trademark laws come into play and they will need to pony up money. Simple solution: Call it Knoppix, or the like. Problem solved.
Re:More at Groklaw (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Brandix (Score:4, Insightful)
LMI and Maddog have been, according to the Groklaw article, EXPLICITLY authorized to do this.
And your entire position on "eclipsing the Linux brand" is completely irrelevant to Linus, I would believe, because it is not the BRAND that he cares about WHEN we are talking about the CODE. It is only the BRAND he cares about when we are talking about the NAME as used by commercial entities.
I believe that as long as the code is GPL and derived from Linux code, he doesn't care what it ultimately ends up being called, as long as someone isn't producing something that ISN'T Linux code and calling it Linux.
The entire point of this is to prevent people from turning out something that is NOT LINUX CODE and calling it Linux.
The revenue letters are to get some companies to support the trademark protection effort, which, as the Groklaw article points out, is a necessary effort to prevent the dilution of the name Linux, which would allow people to produce NON-LINUX-DERIVED products and call them Linux.
If you HAVE Linux code and you call it Brandix, it's irrelevant. First, because people will simply call it Brandix Linux. Secondly, because it is still Linux code.
Knoppix is Linux code, does not use the Linux name, and nobody (that I know of) misunderstands what it is, nor does Linus AFAIK insist that it pay a trademark fee.
If you create a Linux distro, and give it away, AFAIK you don't have to pay the trademark fee - you only have to refer to its origin as "LinuxCircleR", the trademark symbol. If you derive revenue from that distro, then you need to pay the trademark fee so that Linus and the LMI can demonstrate in court that they control that trademark.
I could be wrong about whether other free distros need to pay the fee - someone correct me about this if that is the case. In any event, a free distro would be considered a non-profit according to the fee scale, and the fee would be $200, then - which would only affect one-man distros who are too poor to pay it.
So how is that in any way different from your scenario? It's already happened and nobody cares. And it has had absolutely no effect on the Linux name except to protect it from people like Microsoft.
Personally, I find the whole thing unfortunate that it has to be done, but I'm an anarchist, so that's irrelevant.
Uh huh. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Uh huh. (Score:5, Insightful)
It helps to show that you've made a good faith effort in defending your trademark if you have documentation showing how you've licensed the trademark, and if you've gone after people who have not licensed that trademark.
If Linus does nothing, Microsoft could call the next version of Windows Linux (not that I believe that would happen), and nobody could do a thing about it. Knowing the Patent Office, Microsoft would then be granted the Linux trademark, and would charge $10 per copy... Chaos would ensue, etc.
Re:Uh huh. (Score:2)
Microsoft vi
Microsoft apache
Microsoft php
Microsoft emacs
I'm not trying to troll, just curious.
Re:Uh huh. (Score:2)
From apache.org [apache.org]: 'Apache', 'Apache Software Foundation', the multicoloured feather, and the various Apache project names are trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation, and are usable by others only with permission.
"Microsoft apache" would violate the Apache Software Foundation's trademark, unless Microsoft licensed the trademark from the Apache Software Foundation.
I don't know if PHP is trademarked. At any rate, Microsoft could add PHP sup
Re:Uh huh. (Score:2)
Re:Uh huh. (Score:3, Informative)
"Fair use" only applies to copyright. Trademarks work exactly as you describe: you cannot creating a product in the same market (e.g. computer software) with the term Linux. Period. It doesn't matter if its "a context that's not associated with Linux" or not.
Not so free after all (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe Linus thought of a new proffit plan:
1. Post a crappy kernel in Usenet and say it is free
as in freedom
2. Wait until everybody uses it
3. Enforce trademarks
4. Proffit
Re:Not so free after all (Score:3)
http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/pub_rel/presse/2005/
Re:Not so free after all (Score:5, Informative)
Geez, people, learn to distinguish Copyright - Patent - Trademark - Trade Secret! It's not that hard and pretty important if you want to discuss stuff. I thought cognitive sciences has shown that most people can keep ca. 5 items in their mind at any time.
Re:Not so free after all (Score:3, Informative)
Red Hat et al already do this (Score:2)
Re:Not so free after all (Score:2)
Wrong, you can call it Linux as much as you want for free, as you always have done. It's nice if you acknowledge the trademark with a "Linux is trademark of Linus etc." as you would any other trademark, but that's nothing new either. What you cannot do is calling your company/publication/product "Super Linux" or something like it.
Re:Not so free after all (Score:2)
Actually, Linux itself is still free (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not so free after all (Score:2)
We spell it with a 'ph' in Leonardo. Snoogins.
I'm scratching my head here... (Score:2, Insightful)
Does anybody have a link to something a little more informative? Like Linus' blog or something?
What's really going on here?
(and the mind-reading anti-script picture is "writhe." Spooky.)
Re:I'm scratching my head here... (Score:5, Funny)
-- the Open Sauce king
Re:I'm scratching my head here... (Score:5, Informative)
A number of people have attempted to clarify this, including on Slashdot. I'll post the full text http://lists.linux.org.au/archives/linux-aus/2005- August/msg00084.html [linux.org.au], since most people seem to dislike reading linked articles.
Subject: Re: Quick press enquiry re LinuxMark enforcement
From: Jon maddog Hall
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:25:04 -0400
To: "David Braue"
Cc: maddog@li.org
David,
Your story is quite accurate, LAI is acting in Australia on behalf of LMI, and this is not a "scam".
Since 1995, when an unfortunate incident in the United States showed us that the world is not made of altruistic people and companies, Linux International has been defending the Linux Trademark. At that time an entity had obtained a US trademark on the word "Linux", and was trying to obtain twenty-five percent of the REVENUES of companies that had the word "Linux" in their name, or in their product names. Instead of all the member companies fighting this battle individually, Linux International fought it and won. Unfortunately it cost us a lot of money to do this, despite the pro bono efforts of Gerry Davis, of the law firm of Davis and Schroeder.
Linux International has been defending the Linux Trademark for the world, which due to the costs of registering and obtaining International Trade Marks is VERY expensive. Linux International has spent over 300,000 USD to do this over the years. LI is a non-profit and does not have very much revenue, so some of this money has come from my own personal checkbook. While I can not say how much money I have spent on defending the mark per se, I can tell you that I have spent about 250,000 USD of my own money in keeping LI alive. I am not looking for medals or a chest to pin them on. I am only stating this to show people that this is not a "scam", nor is anyone making any money off this other than the international legal and trademark community, and I am sure that they are necessary and justifiable fees. Certainly Jeremy Malcolm has seemed to be above board and conscientious in all of our dealings with him, as has Jonathan Oxer and the rest of the fine people at LAI.
After a while the board of Linux International recognized the advantage of forming a separate non-profit, the Linux Mark Institute (LMI). We need LMI to be self-funding, and following trademark laws in the 200 countries of the world is very expensive. In addition to the normal issues of a company obtaining a trademark of their own product, using their own name, we have issues such as:
o "Who owns the right to use 'Linux'"
o "Who (therefore) has the right to the broad name 'Linux University'?"
o "Can there be more than one "Linux University? If so, what should its name be?"
o "If I call my company 'Linux Experts', does this mean that I am the only group of 'Linux Experts' worldwide?....shouldn't everyone come to me because I called myself 'Linux Experts'?"
as well as the issues of people who wish to use the name in bad ways (as a pornography attractor or on items confusing to the Linux market).
We have tried to make the licensing as unobtrusive as possible, tailored to the amounts of money that people might be making off the use of the mark, and with an eye to keeping the cost to non-profits and user groups as low as possible. We also have to re-license the name periodically so we can protect against "name squatting" (ala URLs) and defunct entities who no longer need the name they registered.
The trademark laws of the world were not created in the days of the World Wide Web, or even the Internet, where unscrupulous people can take advantage of a good name for a good idea and create havoc for people who want to start legitimate industry in their territory under a mark that is registered in some other coun
Re:I'm scratching my head here... (Score:4, Informative)
They could have done a lot better... (Score:5, Interesting)
What was doubly annoying though was that the letter appeared to be sent out without checking to see if the recipient was applicable. None of the services or products that I had on my WWW site used the word "linux" in them, they simply happen to be able to
I still consider the email to be bordering very close to spam.
Next time, a registered letter in the post after each site is checked for relevance would be a far more reputable manner of distribution.
Re:They could have done a lot better... (Score:3, Interesting)
Drop a line to Linus and ask him if it is real. There's some kind of stipulation regarding fair use of a trademark, e.g. to reference the product's name in your documentation.
The trademark, as I understand it, should only cover conducting trade under the mark "Linux"
This is very close to what Redhat is doing. You can't use "Redhat" unless you've paid. Then you use "Fedora"... and then to confuse things a bit, they add some copyrighted materials to Redhat which are not Open Source so, I suppose for le
The matter of cash...... (Score:5, Insightful)
As I understand the matter, Linus gets the massive sum of $0 from Linux. From this enormous war chest, he has to spend money on lawyers and C&D letters defending the use of the registered trade name; if he doesn't defend it, the trademark is lost, and anyone can use the name for any purpose they like, good or bad (as, for example, a hypothetical Microsoft Linux that had nothing to do with real Linux and just served to fragment the community).
Clearly, there is good reason for SOMEONE to protect the use of the Linux name, and this takes money. The numbers I've seen for the fees being charged to license the name for trade use do not appear unreasonable (and if you're using a Linux product someone else produced, you don't pay anything, plus there are the aforementioned fair-use exceptions), the folks the money goes to are an independent foundation that only manages the trade mark (nobody is being enriched by it), and there doesn't seem to be any other viable alternative if the trademark is to be protected from misuse.
With this in mind, I don't find Linus' actions the least bit disturbing or unreasonable.
Re:They could have done a lot better... (Score:3, Informative)
You've got it wrong. Whether you pay the money or not, you can't misuse the name. Microsoft can't put out a version of Windows called "MS Linux" without Linus' permission. If it's software, and not Linux, he can tell them not to use the term "Linux" with it. How much kernel code they have to use would be something of a question, but they'd run afoul of the GPL anyway.
Charging the nominal fee is just to fund the enforceme
Re:They could have done a lot better... (Score:2)
Text from Sydney Morning Herald (Score:5, Informative)
Linus backs trademark charge, says 'Maddog'
By Sam Varghese
August 19, 2005 - 1:48PM
Trademarking the Linux name and charging for its commercial use world-wide is supported by its creator Linus Torvalds, a senior Linux community figure from the US says.
A recent letter sent to nearly 90 Australian companies, demanding payment of a sub-licence fee that can range from $A200 to $A5000 for use of the Linux name, caused considerable confusion and prompted speculation the fee was a scam.
But in an attempt to clarify the situation in Australia, Jon 'Maddog' Hall, the executive director of Linux International in the US, said a community organisation called Linux Australia had been nominated to handle the trademark issue in this country.
The Linux Mark Institute (LMI) handles trademark issues in the US. In other countries it nominates local bodies to look after things, he said.
Linux is a popular, free open-source operating system that runs on a number of hardware platforms, including PCs and Macintoshes.
Hall said while Torvalds and the LMI did not object to people using the Linux name for legitimate purposes, there were some who tried to limit or block other peoples' business by creating bogus trademark registries.
"We are not blocking anyone's business. If there is a single business out there that is blocked by this issue, please have them contact me," he said.
When asked how open source advocates could fight against the legitimising of software patents and yet charge fees for a trademark, Mr Hall said you couldn't create a product covered by a patent unless you licences it; with a trademark you could change the name and still sell the product.
"You certainly could create and distribute a useful product without having 'Linux' in the trademarked name," he said. "Debian comes to mind. Red Hat Software is another."
Linux Australia president Jonathan Oxer said while patents could stop people from doing the same thing, such as writing a piece of software that was functionally equivalent, trademarks regulated people who wanted to use an identity. "In effect, it's a measure to prevent identity theft," he said.
"Patents can be anti-competitive (or at least anti-productive) in the software world by preventing other people competing on a level playing field. They are specifically intended to grant a limited monopoly."
Oxer said trademarks did not prevent fair competition. "They don't stop anyone else going into business and doing the exact same thing as an existing company. What they do prevent is someone stealing the name of an existing product or company and then using that name to their benefit."
Hall said while the LMI could, in some cases, refuse to grant a sub-licence for use of the name, Torvalds had the final say.
He is the owner of the mark, it is his name. But my experience has been that Linus views this as him holding the mark for the community," he said.
The highest fee in the US is $US5000. "While to some the $US5000 fee may seem like a lot to pay on $US1 million of revenue, we point out that it is only on the revenue generated by the trademarked product, not the whole company (unless the whole company is called 'Linux XXXXXXX'), and there is no upper limit to the revenue that could be made," Hall said.
"We are not trying to limit the use of the name Linux. We are only asking that people help us protect the quality of the Linux name, and ultimately their trademark by both giving proper attribution (everyone) and by helping us fund the cause (the actual sub-licence holders)," he said.
Re:Text from Sydney Morning Herald (Score:2)
Ok, but Debian doesn't have the word "Linux" in its name, because it's not completely based on Linux, it's based on GNU, so you can run in with Linux or with GNU/Hurd, jokes aside.
Anyhow, this can only be good for free software, "Linux" being a overused word that overshadows the importance of other free software. If companies were forced to
The latest threat... (Score:2, Funny)
Oh no! Recursive patents! I knew GNU's Not Unix was behind this!
Re:The latest threat... (Score:3, Funny)
I wonder if the enforcement emails were sent using PINE Is Not Elm?
Any apologies from the slashdot crowd? (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. (Score:5, Informative)
Speaking of abusing someone's good name, Jeremy Malcolm, the attorney in charge of sending out the licensing letters in Australia, has a long history of voluntary and pro bono work for the Internet and open source communities. This includes serving on the boards of the Internet Society of Australia, the Western Australian Internet Association, Electronic Frontiers Australia, the Society of Linux Professionals (WA) and the Australian Public Access Network Association. He also received the Community Award in the 2004 AUUG Australian Open Source Awards for outstanding contribution to the understanding of para-technical and legal issues surrounding open source within the Australian context. He isn't a Scientologist and never has been, by the way, although he believes in freedom of religion for all.
Don't you hate it when the mainstream media doesn't bother to check their facts? Why do what they do, then? The community stands for ethics, does it not?
- Groklaw article [groklaw.net]
As much as we techies usually investigate things, we kind of dropped the ball on this one.
Re:Indeed. (Score:3, Insightful)
"We" dropped the ball? Nobody dropped the ball. What happened was that the usual gang of zealots quickly decided that in their world of black-and-white, that this was in the black, and promptly went off to find further 'evidence' supporting that position.
People actually in the know, know that "Linux" is trademarked, and has been for years. The Linux Mark Institute has been around for years. The only real news here was
Not handled well (Score:2)
Not fair to very small projects (Score:5, Interesting)
It costs about $100 per TVLinux [tvlinux.org] show ( tapes, food, equipment), all paid by one person. TVLinux just wants to inform the TV public about open source and Linux. Do I drop 2-3 shows to pay for a "MARK". I think the rate should be $20-$50 for very small projects.
TVLinux
Re:Not fair to very small projects (Score:2)
Check the LMI Fees Page [linuxmark.org] to see where you fit. Based on your description, I'd say you're either non-profit or for profit tier 1, which would be $200.
The Groklaw article [groklaw.net] others have referenced mentions it, too.
Re:Not fair to very small projects (Score:5, Informative)
From Groklaw [groklaw.net] again:
Examples of Fair Use.
If you are a journalist interested in writing articles that include the term "Linux," you do not need a sublicense. If you are printing up pencils, stenciling T-shirts, or distributing coffee cups with a legend on them like "Linux®is the greatest!" or "Even my Mother uses Linux®!" this is normally considered "fair use".
But I'm not a legal expert, so you might want to invetigate on your own.
GNU is next for trademark licensing? (Score:2)
Licensing fees like this only serve one purpose: To keep potential competition out of the marketplace and to "raise the bar" for any potential entrants. This is totally
Re:Not fair to very small projects (Score:2)
You can do that. What you can't do is call your programme something with "Linux" in the name without permission from the trademark holder. Trademarks can't stop you talking about something.
No, you simply rename your programme to something that doesn't infringe upon the trademark. You can still have exactly the same content, informing the TV public about exactly the same things. Yo
Re:Not fair to very small projects (Score:2)
Just to follow up on my other comment, the Linux Mark Institute [linuxmark.org] says, quite clearly, that talking about Linux, as you seem to be implying is forbidden, is absolutely fine:
The problem you have is that you are marketing a service that actually contains Linux in the name:
Protective? Or restrictive.. (Score:2)
You have to wonder, if in some whacky parallel universe Microsoft decided to release some form of Linux toolset or even a distro of their own, whether or not they'd end up getting permission to use the name or not..
While I'm sure John Hall is right that they're interested in protecting Linux from shoddy rubbish, if they were presented with an opportunity to block Microsoft by us
Re:Protective? Or restrictive.. (Score:2)
Copyright is about content.
Trademark is about names.
Trademarks say: you can't sell product with the name I registered. Of course, you can sell any product with any name I didn't register.
Copyrights say: you can't further distribute the product I made, unless I say you can.
Being that Linux is copylefted, there are no other restrictions to its further redistribution other than you can't distribute it less freely than you received it. So you can distribute Linux all you want, but you can't use t
Free as in speech (Score:5, Insightful)
Free as in Speech, as long as you don't use our Trademark.
But a lot of open source licenses have exactly this restriction, like the Apache License [apache.org]
And lots of others too, mainly extending from the time when Open Source was driven from universities Berkely, MIT who didn't want their 'Trademark' abused.
Re:Free as in speech (Score:5, Informative)
If I remember correctly, Firefox has this restriction, because people were modifying the source code (introducing bugs), compiling it, and calling the result "Firefox". Naturally, when those bugs start affecting people, they go bother Mozilla.org instead of the people truly responsible for the bugs.
It seems to me that trademarks are completely compatible with Free Software - it's one thing to share software freely, fork it, modify it, etc, but it's another thing altogether to cause problems for the original project because you pass your hacked versions off as the originals.
Re:Free as in speech (Score:3, Insightful)
Free as in Speech, as long as you don't use our Trademark.
This needs to be amended to
Free as in Speech, as long as you don't use our Trademark. Now pony up the moola you cock-smoking tea-baggers!
Cheers
Stor
Wrong spirit... (Score:2, Insightful)
If it's true that Linus is behind this, then it's time to fork the kernel and remove all
Re:Wrong spirit... (Score:3, Informative)
Linus (nor his representatives) is NOT asking for any money from these companies. The letter mentions that
Re:Wrong spirit... (Score:2)
Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
You can find that list here:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci [copyright.gov]
Now, while I understand the desire to protect the name Linux, what they're doing is in viol
I dont like it (Score:2, Insightful)
This is like submarine patents.. everybody can use it and then suddenly you have to pay royalties.
I dont care if it is Linus or Ghandhi that does bad things.. This is a bad thing. Shame on you.
Linus really approves of Jeremy Malcolm? (Score:2, Interesting)
donald trump said... (Score:2, Funny)
Trademarks are a GOOD THING. (Score:3, Informative)
Linux is a very important identity for the software industry, and I'm glad someone out there is doing something to protect it from being vandalized and abused.
This just in.. (Score:2, Funny)
(AP, Teh Intarnet) Before today moderation was simple: "-1 Against OSS/Linux", "+1 For Linux". "-1 Anti Free Software", "+1 Pro Free Software". But after a quick turnaround trademark infringement score in the late quarter, slashdot moderation is thrown into chaos. "I just don't get it" states TripMaster Monkey, a slashdot regular. "It's definitely +1 for Linux.. I mean, they're getting money and ensuring a quality product.. but.. It's definitely anti
It is about trademark protection (Score:4, Informative)
It's fair but stupid (Score:5, Informative)
1. If the Linux(tm) mark is not looked after, it will become junk.
2. "Looking after a mark" means getting a trademark and enforcing it.
3. Enforcing a trademark means preventing others from abusing it (using it for contradictory purposes, trying to trademark it themselves, etc.) All these abuses have happened with Linux.
4. This kind of enforcement costs money, and often quite a large amount of money.
5. It's normal that the people who use the Linux mark in their business should pay this, proportionally. They benefit from a well-protected mark.
Lincensing and paying money for things we're used to getting for free is a bit sad, but in the real world. people do mean and unkind things when money is involved. This means: if you like Linux, if your business depends on it, and if you want the word to mean anything at all, you should be willing to pay for this.
Ultimately, though, Linux will become (IMO) the commodity OS just as TCP/IP became the commodity networking protocol. Within 5-10 years, no-one will pay much attention to this.
From this perspective, asking licensing fees, even small ones, will slow down adoption. It creates one more barrier for people who have Linux-related business ideas.
What I would have done is to license the mark and pursue those who abuse it, but allow free licensing for those who comply with certain criteria - especially non-commercial open source projects.
I have no real problem with the intent (Score:2)
As for the actual claim of trademark ... From what I understand of trademark law it should be rejected on the grounds that it wasn't protected. I bought my first set of linux cds from a company called Linux System Laboratories nearly ten years ago. It bodes badly for Linus in Australia.
Financial side is murky (Score:2)
1. why the individual spent 250,000 USD (?) of his own money, that's a lot
2. why not liscense for $1.
3. that GPL-liscensed software is still not free to sell if it has linux in the name, and whether any payment for a mark is passed on to forkers
4. why this was not sent through the community first. Linus may have started things and still have a hand in the kernel, but the value of the trademark is mostly I would imagine NOT due to him personally.
5. how exactly this protects quality of linux p
Re:Financial side is murky (Score:2)
Since it is very hard to even talk about linux systems without using t
What about LUGs? (Score:2)
Australian Linux Trademark Holds Water (Score:3, Funny)
With the Australians, it's hard to tell the difference...
Quality of posts? (Score:5, Informative)
Are the above posts really representative of the opions of most of us? It seems to me I've seldom seen so many confused people...
- "the story is just wrong", "this is just FUD"
Well, it's not... hasn't enough material been presented to convince you?
- "what is really going on here?"
This is a simple trademark defense. [The simplest possible explanation is the most likely one.]
- "blatant misuse of power"
Ehm, no... see above.
- "The mark has been in use for a very long time without any intervention by the said trademark holder."
Do you get the part that you must defend your trademark or you can lose it?
"Also $5000 does not garantee that their is a quality product."
The fee pays for the quality of the trademark, not the product.
"why not liscense for $1."
Because the license fees need to be reasonable. When push comes to shove, your defense of the trademark needs to be defended in court. Token effort is likely not going to be deemed sufficient.
'nuff said...
Re:Quality of posts? (Score:3, Informative)
Read this [linuxmark.org].
For one, LUGs are probably not going to have to pay up. I can't see how they are offering a "product or service" to the public. They generally aren't even registered as companies. You're
Adopt a new name for Linux... (Score:4, Funny)
I propose we use the term Jimux.
Why make the small guy pay? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not just say that if your Linux related turnover exceeds $1bn a year you have to pay it all, and therfore let IBM pick up the tab (or better still simply ask them to use their legal team to defend the trademark)?
Re:Linus comment please... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Linus comment please... (Score:2)
We also need to be able to easily and definitively sort out genuine defenders from charlatains.
Linux Mark Website (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Linux Mark Website (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How does this protect quality (Score:2)
Re:How does this protect quality (Score:2)
It's a falacy and, despite merit of other statements, will bring down an argument completely.
Re:hmmm (Score:2)
Re:hmmm (Score:2)
Re:Torvalds has done what SCO tried.. (Score:2)
No he's not. He (or his representative) has not asked for any money from these companies. The letters said that they MIGHT be required to pay in the future, but that does not mean that they are asking for money now, or that they will ever ask for money.
Re:Torvalds has done what SCO tried.. (Score:2)
Re:Torvalds has done what SCO tried.. (Score:2)
If his intent is to mind the legal P's and Q's then his agents need to appear to be reputable and competent parties.
The people acting in his name need to at least look legit. Linus needs to ensure that this is the case or delegate that management to someone who will.
Yes we can fault Linus.
Re:Still a hoax (Score:2)
Are you a Microsoft troll?
Its $5000 for $1,000,000 REVENUE for products that use the Linux trademark. Its not a fee to develop open source software running on Linux. You pay if you make money on a product sold under a name containing "LINUX".
Re:I heard the explanation (Score:2)
E.g. LinuxSoft
You can still use/sell/support linux based software without paying this royalty.
Granted, I think Linus should have made this clear from the start. That way people wouldn't be "stuck".
So really, what he should do is grandfather existing users [that are at least positive and linux related, e.g. no porno sites] and then charge new users [or uses] of the name.
Tom
Re:A dark day in the history of Linux - what now? (Score:2)