HP Will Offer Customized Linux in Notebooks 283
diegocgteleline.es writes "According with Tom's Hardware, HP is working with Ubuntu to offer a customized GNU/Linux version that works 100% - wireless, bluetooth, IrDA, IEEE1394 - with HP hardware. This offer will be restricted to Europe, Middle East and Africa. The CD includes free support through online resources as well as paid support through Canonical, the developer of Ubuntu."
NO USA? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:NO USA? (Score:5, Insightful)
In some semblance of serious though, that is troubling. Why would they not want to offer Linux to their American customers in this program? My hope is they are doing it for business reasons ($$) and not because they were quietly asked not to while renewing their contracts with Microsoft ($$$). Ubuntu is a nice distro that seems to "just work". Kubuntu (which does mean something, just just the standard "k+name" nomenclature) works well and looks damn good. I'm all for Ubuntu ending on laptops and desktops than that Linspire or Xandros crap.
Re:NO USA? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
Look at the attack on Firefox of late.
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
Re:NO USA = Better Deal from MS (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe it's coincidence, or maybe not, but by using Europe, Middle East, Africa as a proving ground to get a stable linux version on their laptops, they could use it as a barganing chip against MS to get a better deal for MS OSs.
If MS gives in, the HP-Ubuntu option stays in EMEA, otherwise it goes global. HP giving such legitimacy would be a nightmare to MS.
Even if it wasn't intentional
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
What worries me more is that HP still don't know their ass from their elbow. Instead of kludging up a distro to work with their non-standard hardware, they'd be far better off just adhering to the prevailing h/w standards, and making sure the specs are availa
Re:NO USA? (Score:5, Informative)
As far as HP desktops and servers go, they're pretty much supported out of the box by most distros, with most of the drivers for HP/Compaq hardware being GPL'd. (Except perhaps for some server-only features on high-end hardware, like the remote lights-out management system that'll let me power-cycle a box in Singapore from my desk in Colorado.)
"Xandros crap"? That is Insightful? (Score:2)
I've used Xandros since version 1 and it runs most of the Linux workstations in our company. It is easy to install, complete, and elegant. Basically it's a Debian distribution with Xandros' custom file manager, which provides very nice integration with the network and devices.
Linspire... I tried it and it was too garish. But it worked well.
Gratuitous insults are not useful nor "insightful". If you have criticisms it
Re:NO USA? (Score:5, Informative)
"According to HP in Europe, the Ubuntu Linux project is currently limited to EMEA - a region that tends to be more receptive to Linux than for example the US - and aims to demonstrate that a Linux desktop can be easily transferred to a notebook. The software is available in a few countries with an expansion to other markets being evaluated at this time, a spokesperson said."
Re:NO USA? (Score:2)
Come ooon .. it's software. The hardware is the same in the US and elsewhere. So if the software has already been developed for one region, it would automatically work in other regions, and should really cost them 'next to nothing' to make it available in a huge market like the USA (the 'marginal cost' of selling the same, already-developed software in the US must be so low that it would be nearly impossible not to offset that cost in sales - and there WOULD be sales). It's not as if they have to re-develop
Re:NO USA? - end run around bundling agreements (Score:5, Interesting)
The lack of support in the US is likely due to the unethical bundling agreements with microsoft. One way to provide a reasonable degree of support without selling machines preinstalled is to publish highly detailed installation instructions. for a few distributions. I log machine installations [freelabs.com] in such a way that you can practically cut and paste the log into a shell prompt and duplicate the install. Only the occasional reboot or a $%@#$% interactive install program prevents running the entire log as a shell script. All file edits are recorded using diff/patch, sed, cat, etc so you have an exact way to reproduce the changes.
That way, you are covered on your first install, reinstalls, and have a good head start on upgrades. And, this way you don't have to use their configuration. You can partition your hard drive to your specifications, for example. But you don't need to go searching for drivers to download or puzzle out how to install them.
This approach doesn't work very well for grandma but it will work for power users who may be new to linux as well as those people who normally use linux. And it would be a major selling point to linux people if the installation instructions are on the HP web site and they can view them before they even buy the machine.
The link above includes an example for an older HP notebook.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
This is an effort worthy of more publicity.
hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:hmm (Score:2, Interesting)
Won't work for average old ladies. For average anybody
Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:4, Insightful)
If you really used Linux you wouldn't be serving us Red Herring.
These are usually Flash animations. Flash is available for Linux, I use it regularly. If these animations require some custom executable, she's better off not opening the attachment.
Not only does OpenOffice.Org handle Word documents, it's free. Your hypothetical old lady has a better chance with Ubuntu than with Windows of opening that recipe, since Word does not come with Windows XP. If you are lucky, it will be bundled by the OEM, but there's no guarantee.
Software requirements apply to everyone. With Windows, our hypothetical old lady has to make sure that she buys for the right Windows version, and that it's not a Mac application.
Boy, that was a full serving.
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2)
Software requirements apply to everyone. With Windows, our hypothetical old lady has to make sure that she buys for the right Windows version, and that it's not a Mac application.
I reply because I can not mod you up as I do not have mod points.
I agree in almost everything you said except the last quote, I think for the average people (or the old ladies in this
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2)
But XP *does* come with Wordpad, which can render Word documents. You lose the more advanced features (macros, some fancy formatting, etc), but the text is generally perfectly readable and well presented.
Software requirements apply to everyone. With Windows, our hypothetical old lady has to make sure that she buys for the right Windows version, and that it's not a
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2)
I just checked on a fresh install of XP SP2 (formatted and rebuilt yesterday), and yes Wordpad does list "Word for Windows" in the Open dialog. Of course, it doesn't like anything fron recent versions of Word or advanced features. OO.o is more compatible than Wordpad with MSWord docs.
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2)
Agreed.
Not only does OpenOffice.Org handle Word documents, it's free. Your hypothetical old lady has a better chance with Ubuntu than with Windows of opening that recipe, since Word does not come with Windows XP. If you are lucky, it will be bundled by the OEM, but there's no guarantee.
Agreed.
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:3, Informative)
This is not insightful. This is nonsense. Those animations? Half the time they are not flash at all, but self-contained executables. 99% of the software you buy at Staples and Walmart run on Windows from 98 to XP.
The real target for Linux is not the hypothetical old ladies. It's people like you and me, who don't need those kinds of silliness that Windows provides.
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Red Herring, It's what's for dinner (Score:2, Informative)
User Training (Score:2)
Re:User Training (Score:3, Funny)
That's a bit harsh isn't it? I normally just slap them on the back of the head, and tell them not to do it again.
Re:User Training (Score:3, Funny)
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Re:hmm (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Why not? Works for my housemate -- and he only surfs for porn!
you really haven't looked at WINE (Score:2)
Random windows software -> prepackaged windows emulator (wine?)
Word documents -> openoffice works find with these, crossover office could be packaged with the system
Check their websites. They'll only work on a very specific and very small subset of Windows apps, the odds that WINE or Crossover will run a random Windows software app suck.
I looked at them when I was looking for a Windows emulator that would give me access to all the Windows apps that either have no Linux equi
Re:hmm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Which is exactly why this move by HP is a good idea
Bonus points if you can say why it is...
Cheers,
SB
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Just try using a mac mini in your car, or on a train or more than three feet away from a power socket... durrr...
That could be because we don't need our hand holding all over the place and we are safe to go out on the streets unaccompanied... we
Perfect (Score:5, Funny)
2 ?????
3. Profit!
Oh wait that really does work.
how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:5, Interesting)
First, any idea why my scroll wheel doesn't work on the referred page??? (It continues to work everywhere else, weird.)
Second, I wonder why this always starts, and is only going to be available in Europe. I know the article says:
but, this sounds like a chicken or egg, or Catch 22 scenario. How do we break that circle? Is there a way to tell HP we do want linux on a laptop? Or are we too hardy and independent a group/demographic we just insist on doing this ourselves our own way. I'd love for allRelatedly, and specifically about HP, they don't completely embrace linux yet (though I know some are going to flame me because this may be interpreted as "not about linux"). I have an HP Pavilion ZX5000 -- great little (cough) machine! I configured it dual boot with Mandrake 10.1, and paid the extra to get a Linuxant wireless driver. What a great little (cough) machine! Screen resolution 1920x1200 full color, both OS's. But, when the video connector (my diagnosis) started to loosen and my screen started to flicker I called HP for warranty repair. During the obligatory debugging phase (reboot XP, un-install, re-install video drivers, etc.) it was revealed I had a dual boot setup, and they IMMEDIATELY upon hearing I had linux on the machine refused to do the warranty repair! I escalated three times, talked to three managers and each immediately (by scanning previous call's notes) declined to do the warranty work claiming they had no assurance linux didn't damage the machine. I offered to pay for repairs should they determine in the course of fixing my machine that linux indeed was the cause. No dice.
On my fourth contact, I found a helpful person who agreed with my diagnosis, and agreed it sounded like a loose cable and agreed to do the warranty repair. She did however (bless her) advise me to remove the hard drive because upon receipt, and debugging, as soon as the technicians would see the dual boot she could not guarantee me they wouldn't immediately re-image the disk.
Bottom line, HP is dipping their toes in the linux waters, but somehow I think this community should demonstrate willingness and interest. I don't know exactly what that should be but I'm willing to participate -- any replies/suggestions -- I'm willing to try to take action.
Re:how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:4, Interesting)
(Incidentially, my fault was a little different to yours: the parallel port had been plugged into the MB back-to-front and wouldn't work in either linux or windows.)
Re:how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:2, Insightful)
Is there a way to tell HP we do want them to continue making great calculators?
HP is a silly company these days. They screw one thing after the other...
Scrollwheel & stuff (Score:2)
As for why this isn't going to come to the states, two reasons. One, you don't piss Microsoft off. Two, Americans expect, nay demand, free, year round support (preferably 24/7). I've watched many the small time outfit try and compete with the big guys, only to go under when the find out that t
Invoke Magnuson-Moss (Score:3, Interesting)
You should have invoked Magnusom-moss [ftc.gov] on them the moment they told you that they cannot support your system with linux.
Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service.
They will have a hard time demonstrating that you system will not work properly under linux. Even if this is a linux only-system they will have
Re:how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:2)
I know that if anyone re-images my HDD, I am going to re-image his brain with a baseball bat as soon as I find out about it.
Re:how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:3, Informative)
Last time I bought a laptop with Windows preinstalled, I immediately replaced the hard disk when I received it. When the keyboard needed a replacement some 18 months later, I just swapped the old HD back in before sending the machine to guarantee repair. This procedure allowed me to:
- R
Re:how can we show U.S. interest? (Score:2)
An HP laptop (shipped with Win95) that I bought has had recurring memory issues -- neither the BIOS not the OS would recognise any add-in memory, only the memory soldered into the mobo.
The first time it went back, they replaced the add-in memory card AND re-installed the OS (Win95) -- I lost all my personal data.
The second time I sent the laptop back, I had replaced the internal hard disk with one that dual-booted W
Why would they restrict it geographically? (Score:4, Insightful)
Just Europe, Middle East and Africa (Score:3, Interesting)
On a nicer note, kudos to HP for at least putting a little effort into Linux - maybe to counteract the $100 million investment from Michael Dell into Red Hat?
Re:Just Europe, Middle East and Africa (Score:2)
On a side note, I *want* one of these things dammit!
Re:Just Europe, Middle East and Africa (Score:2)
Fair Trade (Score:4, Insightful)
Ubuntu power management (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ubuntu power management (Score:2)
Re:Ubuntu power management (Score:2)
Re:Fair Trade (Score:3, Informative)
So, as I'm writing from a HP zv5000 laptop, running Suse 9.1 x86_64, I have to say the following:
- power management works. No specific patches, kernel compilations or the like. Just set it up as you please.
- the two things that don't work properly are the memory card reader (some 5-in-1 thing which is not recognised by the kernel) and the integrated modem, which, I haven't even tried to configure.
- everything else works. Of course, one needs
Re:Fair Trade (Score:2)
BTW, I believe the "insight" mods cited was my insight into the power of getting a corporation to work on OSS upgrades in their own self-interest, then sharing them with everyone. And the value of making a good deal that serves the OS
Be careful of live CDs (Score:2)
WXVGA display. Radeon Express 200m
athlon 64 processor
live cds seem to work well (knoppix and mandrake move)
install CD hang shortly after you hit enter to install. I was able to eventually get suse 9.0 to install by adding frame-buffer and a couple of other switches at the install prompt. fedora. Ubuntu, mandrake, suse 9. and a bunch of others just hang after the prompt
SUSE 9.1 works ok except no networking.
Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts are Frustrating (Score:5, Informative)
Why? Well, this was the cheapest version of Windows that could be sold. I was informed by the sales rep that HP's contractual terms with MS required that no hardware could be sold without an operating system. The accounting involved was so onerous that HP could not be bothered to do the extra bookkeeping in North America where the Linux market was so weak.
So MS gets paid even when Linux is installed. That's just not right!
Re:Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts are Frustratin (Score:5, Informative)
They shipped their computers with Free DOS installed.
mod parent up (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts are Frustratin (Score:2)
Total compliance, everybody happy.
Re:Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts :: Buy Pbooks (Score:2)
Ebay XP... (Score:3, Interesting)
They can do that, but you don't have to accept the license for XP home. So put it on eBay. When lawyers pull it sue. The only thing that prohibits you from selling XP without a CPU/harddrive is the license, which is a contract. When you refuse to accept the contract it cannot apply.
Even if the contact does apply, it isn't clear that the no re-sell provision is legal. Most states have "first sale" laws which would apply.
I'm, not a lawyer myself. I'm pretty sure this would work, and I'd like som
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts are Frustratin (Score:2)
Here at Brasil, companies can't force you to buy Windows along with the computer. If they don't offer an alternative, you can buy the computer WITHOUT ANY OS.
I must admit that you actualy have to involve some theatening of moving an lawsuit against the company, but in the end they'll sell even a notebook without Windows.
To force a coupled sell is a crime against the consumer, and consumer rights are one of the few things that are taken seriously around here.
But, in the end, even if you c
Re:Microsoft Monopolistic Contracts are Frustratin (Score:2)
Usually you get FreeDOS on the drive instead of windows. The only exception I can think of is Apple. I don't think they sell machines without the OS.
Possible solution. BBB.ORG (Score:3, Insightful)
the "tax" (Score:2)
Will people want the hazzle? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know, but I am quite skeptical about this, from what I read, people that chose the non Windows option would have to make the Ubuntu installation.
This mean one more step than with the Windows option...
There could be a difference, if the price of both configuraitons (windows, linux) where different. And even with that, the average user would end acquiring the Windows option because just hearing the "you must Install the OS to use the machine" will sound scary...
The question is WHY?? OH WHY!!? isnt Ubunty pre installed? what is wrong with that?
Re:Will people want the hazzle? (Score:2)
Re:Will people want the hazzle? (Score:2)
No, fo shizzle.
Re:Will people want the hazzle? (Score:2)
And, for OS-less PC offers, they have to provide an OS, because otherwise, you know, the PC "would be for pirated windows".
So instead of crying for ubuntu not being pre installed, see the bright side of it:
-linux pre installed on HP PC is a reality
-probably this is a first step and you will see ubuntu based PCs in the future: they probably have to go through mutual
HP and Debian sitting in a Tree. (Score:2, Interesting)
HP has always been a big Debian fan, so I am not suprised that they will support Ubuntu... They've been supporting Debian Stable for a long time and even offer a HP pack for it and they use it internally.
They've been probably waiting for the next Debian Stable, but Ubuntu is great right now so it makes sense.
Plus it's been a trend for people wanting to get involved in Linux to try to not depend to heavily on commercial Linux versions.
Re:HP and Debian sitting in a Tree. (Score:2)
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the new Debian stable is coming out in like two weeks. If they've waited this long, and waited until after Debian's announcement, it really doesn't make sense for them to go with Ubuntu.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:HP and Debian sitting in a Tree. (Score:2)
Debian isn't even really an operating system. I hear that there's a FreeB
Will HP support reach mainline?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Is that such a novelty? I was able to get Gentoo [gentoo.org] and 2.6 kernel running on a Dell Inspiron 6000 without too much trouble (excluding the Dell wireless
Re:Will HP support reach mainline?? (Score:2)
I suppose that's the important part. Your average linux user can usually get just about any distro to 95%. You just never get that last thing (or two) working, and its irritating. You paid for that wireless lan, wouldn't it be cool if you could use it?
But will they open-source it? (Score:4, Informative)
Nice idea, but... (Score:2)
This being Linux, upgrades for desktop systems are essentially mandatory (some things don't age well, like IM clients, and upgrades often don't work on older versions, plus there's the issue of security updates) so this may well be a problem.
I'd be way happier to see them working to make
Re:Nice idea, but... (Score:2)
Absolutely not. Thankfully. You WILL need to upgrade hardware occasionally, mostly just putting in more memory, but otherwise it'll be fine. The opposite is the case - to run newer software you generally need to upgrade to a newer version of your Linux distro, but not the hardware.
Do be aware that while the Linux zealots will tell you you can run Linux on a 486 with 4MB of RAM, they're not really telling the who
No Linux laptops by HP in America (Score:2)
Freedos HP Notebooks (Score:3, Informative)
marketshare (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
HP + Mandrake != true ? (Score:2)
The US is an unfogiving market. (Score:2, Insightful)
It can be started in at least the Middle East and Africa relatively cheaply. The people who are their target customers might well already know about it.
Think of it as HP run
Re:May I be the first to say (Score:3, Interesting)
I have just spend some time with Ubuntu. IMHO This is the first distro that really gets it and has the potential to be a desktop killer. The install is very simple (timezone, name, password), and after install you have a very simple well thought out interface.
You dont have 50 different text editors and 12 different cd writers. Just one. Not necessarily the best, but it makes for a great distro to put on a novices desktop.
The menus are well though out too. None of this 'system tools' and 'sys
Re:May I be the first to say (Score:2)
It is a nice distro. (Score:2)
getting fairly certain it was the video that hangs on most distros.
even if you try to install in text mode it hangs almost everything dies during the install (suse 9.0, fedora core 2,3 32/64 bits)
I did get SUSE 9.1 to install except no networking yet
Ubunto works slick on my older thinkpad though
Not the first (Score:2)
Ubuntu has the main advantage of being entirely free which makes it the "here's Linux, now go off and don't bother me again" choice. Xandros sell their product but I've no objection to that. It's certainly worth the $50 or so.
Re:What I want (Score:3)
My advice is to drop either your AMD64 requirement (the
Re:What I want (Score:2)
Re:What I want (Score:2)
No they are not. A laptop is a portable desktop for people who do not always sit in the same place. Todays laptops are powerful machine fully capable of everything most people want to do.
Yes there are compromises required due to weight and power limits. However most of the compromises are things that you don't need. (Except for the keyboard and screen) Few people upgrade their video card. Few people have two harddrives in their machine. Most people don't need fibre channel or some other weird
Re:What I want (Score:2)
Re:HP Notebooks? (Score:2)
Re:Why not the US? (Score:5, Insightful)
In bed? Sure - and MS has their arm so far up HP's ass that they can make the lips move. The USA is the fat golden sacred cow to MS and they will fight tooth and claw to keep it that way.
That HP got this far with Linux is a miracle and a testament to how even in a company as Windows centric in practice as HP is, the animosity toward MS is so deep and universal.
A family member works at HP, so I know of what I speak.
RS
Re:Why not the US? (Score:2)
As you're probably aware, the old fogey founders, Hewlett and Packard, were some of the good guys. They were smart engineers and hackers, and they tried to do things right. If they were still both alive and running the show at HP, they'd be all over Linux. While HP the company has obviously spent some years over on the dark side, I'm sure a lot of old Hewlett and Packard's engineering culture still lurks in the halls of that company, and helps push them towards the right stuff.
Re:First mod on the list.. (Score:2)
I just don't think that every KDE user who gets this laptop (esp. if its assigned to them by an IT dept.) will be a CLI-jockey or will want to navigate an alien GUI in order to make the switch. If the vendor doesn't offer KDE as a customization, then maybe they are putting more emphasis on hardware interfaces than human ones.
Re:Europe vs. USA? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How are they going to do (Score:2)
Or you can just use Synaptic and check out the Ubuntu forums.