4 Linux Distros Compared To Win XP, Mac OS X 729
Morf writes "The Australian Consumers? Association has evaluated Xandros, Linspire, Mandrake Discovery and SUSE personal and compared them to Mac OS X and Windows XP in its latest Computer CHOICE magazine. The article is very much focused on "mums and dads", and concludes Linux is just about ready for consumers, although installing new software could pose some problems for those who aren't really computer savvy. The report is available free for a short time."
"Consumers?"? (Score:5, Funny)
Brought to you by the Puzzled Slashdot? Readers Group.
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Someone tell the Australians that the rest of the English speaking world avoids apostrophes in titles and proper nouns.
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:4, Funny)
(Shut up you pedants: I know it's a charset issue, but where's the humor in that?)
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:3, Informative)
Except that the Normans weren't French, they were transplanted Vikings. Sure they spoke French and lived in France, but they were (and still are) culturally distinct from the French.
Australian Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)
They may not be as enthusastic as your average slashdotter but the fact that they even did this comparison means Linux is getting consideration by people who are very quality sensitive. Also retirees who like to fiddle with PC's and photo's but don't have heaps of cash will read it next year in the doctors waiting room.
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft (ab)use invalid (non-ASCII, non-ISO-8859, non-Unicode) codes to represent typographical sugar like prettier hyphens and backwards quotes in their own charsets. And if a system doesn't know what charset source material is in- or is told the wrong charset- then it can't correctly
Re:"Consumers?"? (Score:3, Funny)
2. Get modded "informative".
3. ???
4. Profit!
Only on Slashdot... (Score:3, Funny)
...can an article about Linux vs. WinXP vs. OSX degenerate into a thread about the particulars of Unicode and apostrophes that, as of right now, took me 7 page-downs to get through.
ALL HAIL PETTY BICKERING!
Response: ALL HAIL
Not for long... (Score:5, Funny)
The report is available ... for a short time
Okay, which one of you hosers told them we were coming?
Hope again (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hope again (Score:2, Insightful)
A man page usable by grandmas is a waste of disk space for me, and conversely, a man page I need is utterly incomprehensible for the grandma.
There is no way to fix this except by having two completely separate sets of documentation. This could by possibly done by putting the files next to each other, but I quite fail to imagine any good way of integrating that into a s
Re:Hope again (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hope again (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hope again (Score:4, Interesting)
Putting aside whether man is suitable or not for non-techies I'd say this would be easy enough to do.
Granted easier for the User than for the people putting together the distro/software/documentation. But even then it shouldn't be too hard.
Plus whether man or a graphical help function I'd love to be able to switch to a less/more complex version sometimes.
Two sets of documentation. Help software defaults to the simple version but a simple flag can access the more in-depth version. Similarly a simple configuration file could be used to make the more complex version default for more experienced users.
Probably still not perfect, but would allow for less experienced users to immediately get less-confusing help when needed, and the more-experienced ones would be more able to handle the steps required to switch to the in-depth help. It'd probably be a real pig to implement though.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hope again (Score:4, Insightful)
I need usable man pages. I need all that complex docs. I'm not a wizard who already knows everything by heart. I want documentation, not dumbed-down text asking me if the computer is turned on.
What those Joe Schmoe users need, is a clickable interface with anything that could make them shoot themselves in the foot carefully hidden. What I need, is a system that allows me to shoot my own foot if I tell it so. A system that doesn't try to pamper me, but does what I say -- without standing in my way. It needs to provide some examples and documentation that is not completely opaque -- and that documentation would be too dumbed down for those more skilled than me.
In general, my goals are opposite to the goals of Grandma Jill. I, being selfish, can't stand if I get hurt due to someone trying to make it easier for grandmas.
I, a technical user, need a system fit for technical users.
Grandmas need a system that's dumbed down.
It's hard to have both in a single system, so any compromise will hurt both sides.
Re:Hope again (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hope again (Score:5, Insightful)
You, my friend, need to find a good technical writer.
It's called inverted pyramid writing and goes something like this:
You simply provide a sidebar nagivation in the summary page that takes you to the level you want.
The "dumb down" argument is nothing more than the desperate flailings of ego trying to still prove to the world that it is justified.
Re:Hope again (Score:2)
They're working on it (Score:3, Informative)
But a lot more work needs doing in that area.
Linux has been ready for a long time now (Score:3, Informative)
Administration shouldn't be major for the desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't think that users being able to administer their systems should be considered a serious problem when considering linux on the desktop.
In recent months I've come to believe that Linux, and many other unix-like systems for that matter, are not only ready for the desktop and have been for some time, they're near perfect for it. The major catch (apart from that whole software compatability thing, perhaps) is that they're only perfect when someone who knows what they're doing is adminstrating the system.
I administer my own home linux system, and I like it that way absolutely, but I wouldn't reccommend it to any of my friends. Sure, I could get them set up and rurning, but every so often they'd want to change something and would need help.
At my university, we run a department network of NetBSD machines, and they're administered brilliantly to the point where new students who are used to Windows can get started in using them for many things without a lot of problems. The security's locked down to a reasonable extent so it's hard for any badly written software the seriously break any of the workstations, but if we want something changed then there's a responsive team of administrators who'll look at providing what's needed. Most importantly, the workstations are reliable and they're looked after by experts who know everything that's on them inside out. Just like my home machine, unixes very rarely break or collapse if they're administrated well.
My point is that Linux is very ready for the desktop, but people shouldn't be expected to administer their own systems. Luckily, though, Linux has several other very handy things going for it:
What surprises me is that nobody yet seems to have seriously jumped into a potentially great business opportunity of offering remote linux administrations for home users. Essentially it'd be linux by subscription, ironically enough.
I really do know lots of people who use Windows because they're afraid of everything else, and they only even try to administer it and understand the issues because they have no other option. Really they'd rather concentrate on actually doing things with their PC, and would often be happy to pay someone else to administer it if the price were reasonable.
The business would be in providing a remote service which, once a customer's home PC had been set up in an appropriately standard configuration, would offer the service of administering the PC remotely. For instance, if the customer wants new software, they phone up and ask for it. An admin logs in, installs the package, and sets up any appropriate configuration. Perhaps every so often, administrators come along and upgrade whatever software is installed, probably (usually) keeping the configurations within bounds that are known to work on a large scale. Perhaps they even provide conversion services for things like Word files, in cases when something like OpenOffice simply won't handle it properly.
On occasion
Re:Linux has been ready for a long time now (Score:3, Insightful)
Installing new software is a common task? I would have assumed most people, once past the initial setup of a system, spend their time USING software, not installing it.
But the point stands. In OS X, installing new software is usually just as easy as copying it to the Applications folder. Why do Linux and Windows make it so much more complicated?
Re:Linux has been ready for a long time now (Score:4, Insightful)
That is not where the problem lies. The additional problems in ascending order of size are --
1 -- (for the non-geek mum/dad user) getting used to the CLI
2 -- (for quite a lot of others too) figuring out what to do if
apt-get install programx
coughs over a dependency issue and shows up with screeds of error messages.
I'd be quite interested to read your simple advice to get over problem 2!
-wb-
compatible hardware quote :) (Score:4, Informative)
Jokes aside, I bought (ie assembled at home) a PC which I picked off the hardware HOWTO. Ended up being a charm to get Linux working on it. I would like to call that Voting with your Money.
These days you should check TuxMobil [tuxmobil.org] or some other Linux site rather than just the hardware vendor's site for the compatibility from the wild.In breif summary (Score:3, Informative)
Microsoft Windows XP Home $324
Xandros Desktop OS 2.5 Deluxe $135
Apple Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows XP were easier to use than any of the Linux distributions tested - but not by much.
Mac OS X lost marks for poor help files but was easier to use for most common tasks. Windows XP had excellent help files but scored lower for installation, which was complicated and time-consuming. You may also need to spend extra money on additional software for common tasks.
Xandros Desktop OS was the top performing Linux distribution. It was easy to install with very good help files but was more complicated to use for tasks such as burning a DVD and viewing digital photos. It didn't include DVD burning software and you need to find the correct folder for photo and movie files. However, at $135, it's a considerably cheaper option than Windows XP or Mac OS X.
None of the operating systems are ideal, however.
* The Linux distributions fell short on some common tasks including installing new software, setting up an internet connection and the availability of help files and instructions.
* Mac OS X could have more comprehensive help files and we'd like to see the inbuilt firewall switched on by default.
* Although Windows XP usually comes pre-installed on computers, the installation process could be easier, as could some of the common tasks such as playing a DVD.
We'd also like to see inbuilt antivirus software in all operating systems -- the tested operating systems don't currently include a virus checker.
In brief
* Microsoft Windows is the dominant operating system.
* The Linux-based operating systems we tested aren't quite as easy to use as Windows XP and Mac OS X, but they're not far behind.
* Linux fell short on common tasks such as installing new software.
Overall, however, Linux has improved in leaps and bounds over the years. It's probably not suitable for beginners yet but if you're a confident computer user, any of the tested distributions should suit you.
Prices (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Prices (Score:3, Informative)
Except that there isn't purchasing power parity.
Mac OS X is 129 US$ on the Apple Store.
Windows is 179 US$ on Amazon.
Re:In breif summary (Score:4, Funny)
Re:In breif summary (Score:5, Insightful)
On the flip side, on all systems, having the firewall enabled often hinders legitimate uses of the system, such as dcc send/chat on irc, or p2p apps etc, so having the firewall enabled by default on osx would actually cause problems while not providing any benefit.
I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:5, Interesting)
So I decided to make my Dad switch from WinXP to Ubuntu, installed Abiword and gnumeric (oo.org was to slow on his P4 with 96MB RAM), setted them as default editors, copied all his Documents over from the Win partition and made a shortcut on the desktop to his Documents folder.
He really likes Ubuntu. At first he was a bit bored because he had to learn some new things (for example the "Applications" menu is on the top left, and not on the bottom), but he got the changes quickly and adapted to the new OS in a few days.
I asked him yesterday if he likes more Windows or Linux now that he tryed both, and he told me that it makes no difference for him, as long as he can use spreadsheets, write letters, read his emals and organize his pictures like he did before (btw. he loves gPhoto and Gimp is his new favorite program
So to him it makes no difference, but now I don't have to clean his computer from spyware and viruses every few weeks.
So for me (and for my dad) Linux IS READY for the desktop. At least Ubuntu is.
OFF TOPIC (Score:2)
Re:OFF TOPIC (Score:2)
Anyway, oo.org was to slow. But gnucalc and abiword just fly.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:2)
Pardon? A P4 with 96MB? My Pentium 100 from nearly a decade ago had 192MB. My current PC is a second generation Celeron and the video card alone has 128MB. What dumb bunny company is selling a P4 with a mere 96MB RAM?
Do your Dad a favour. Splash out and spend $100 on a 256MB upgrade.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:2)
Pardon? A P4 with 96MB? My Pentium 100 from nearly a decade ago had 192MB.
Yes, sorry. I got that wrong. He had 128MB of RAM and I got 64MB more from an other PC. That's 192MB in total. Sorry for the mistake.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:5, Insightful)
I installed Ubuntu on my gf's grandmother's laptop, a Toshiba Tecra A2. Setup was a breeze. It detected everything right down to the wireless eth card.
I also stuck a "My Documents" shortcut on the Desktop so the other Windows people woulnd't get lost and in addition made it boot straight into her profile with no password.
That was a few weeks ago, and I saw her the other day quite happily looking at photos of the grandkids and playing a mpeg clip with mplayer. Keep in mind she's 80 odd and has never used a computer before. She wanted to play some games also, so I stuck shortcuts on the desktop to Solitaire and minesweeper.
After using Ubuntu, my gf's dad now wants it on his computer because he says "Windows XP is too hard to use" and he "really likes it how everything makes sense on Ubuntu". Hmmm a logical desktop OS where everything Just Works(tm) is the exact reason I use Ubuntu on my desktop.
Is Ubuntu ready for the desktop? You bet your ass it is.
PS If anyone's interested you can read the blog entry here [cr0n.net]
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:3, Insightful)
Try to hand a WinXP install CD to a non-geek and watch him suffer.
While I'd agree that windows being bad is no excuse for linux in general being bad also I'd simply dispute the fact that installing linux is that hard for non-geeks. Ubuntu is in fact a good example for this. Granted, it doesn't come with a nice looking graphical installer, but the install is pretty straight forward and all you have to do is click yes a few times and you'll end up with a working system.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:3, Insightful)
In direct opposition to TFA, but nevertheless completely correct.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:4, Interesting)
Apart from being very clearly laid out, the Ubuntu installer is easy to follow and takes you through the installation process fairly painlessly.
Now of course someone who's never used a computer before is not going to install an operating system. That is just plain silly.
The point is that even someone moderately knowledgable (I'm not talking guru here) should be able to set up Ubuntu. Anyone who can answer yes no questions can set it up. Most of the time the defaults are correct anyway.
On a related note would you give your mother a Windows XP disc and expect her to install it. I certainly wouldn't. The difference is with Windows is most of the time it's pre-installed by the manufacturer.
Not to nit-pick... but it was actually my girlfriend's grandmother. Something tells me that you read "I installed Ubuntu", "grandmother" and "Is Ubuntu ready for the desktop? You bet your ass it is." and ignored everything else.
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:3, Insightful)
Worse still, XP will not work with some older hardware. For instance, I have an Adaptec SCSI card that will blue-screen XP, but runs flawlessly in Linux, I can even
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:4, Informative)
I would be 100% confident in handing the Ubuntu disk to anyone and saying here, install this, and know that they could do it, provided they know two things: how to put the disk in, and how to reboot the computer. A few MIGHT have trouble getting their computer to boot from cd, but they would be the minority. Everyone else would end up with a fully functioning Ubuntu linux installation. Of course, they would also be sans windows, but that's not so bad, now is it.
I do have some other gripes with Ubuntu (it doesn't recognize my epson cx5200, which mandrake does), but they are minor. Personally, I think that their installer needs work, for ANYTHING other than the basic installation.
I promise that if you handed a winxp disc to most people, they would end up with a functioning system only after much confusion. I mean, NTFS or FAT32? What in the name of $person is that? Ubuntu gives even less control than windows, but it's not any worse.
Oh, and another thing, Ubuntu, like Linspire, installs in a flash (sub 15 minutes for a working system on a reasonably modern computer). Compare this to the 30+ minute install for ANY version of windows (well, maybe not 3.11, but I've never installed that).
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I installed Ubuntu on my Dad's computer (Score:3, Informative)
We have tested... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. a snickers
2. a jam of pure honey
3. an apple
4. a carrot
We found out that snickers is the best food because:
1. it comes in a nice wrapping
2. has many calories and can give you an energetic boost
3. its taste is supreme to others
Some people say you need vitamines, you should not spoil your teeth etc. But for an end-user what matters is the ease of use! And the snickers is the ultimate winner here.
Although an apple and a carrot keep quite close they have a long way to go.
best regards
michal
Re:We have tested... (Score:3, Funny)
SuSE (Score:4, Informative)
I know apt-get, emegre, etc do the same thing, but IMHO, those utilities aren't as n00b-friendly as YaST. For one, in my experience, "mums and dads" are terrified of the command line, and will avoid it like the plague.
Re:SuSE (Score:3, Interesting)
Although I'm not a n00b (far from it in fact - I'm a Linux sysadmin for a web-hosting company) I for one don't actually use the command line for apt-get on Ubuntu as I find Synaptic so easy. In fact, since I started using Ubuntu at home I don't use the
News Flash (Score:2, Informative)
Ozzies? (Score:3, Funny)
The Australian Consumers? Association has evaluated Xandros,
Is the "?" some kind of joke about the way Australians turn everything they say into a question by going up in tone at the end of every sentence? Or just an unescaped html character?
Because it gets really annoying? Trying to talk to people? When you're not sure whether they're asking a question or telling you something?
Interesting quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting quote (Score:2)
Oh, wait.
(Goes back to his Linux desktop)
Re:Interesting quote (Score:3, Insightful)
J.
Prefer Slackware (Score:2)
Rus
Ironic (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Documentation (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Documentation (Score:3, Insightful)
Given the writing quality of a lot of Slashdot posts, I'd prefer they stayed far, far away from the end-user documentation.
"Mommy? Why does the computer always spell 'lose' with an extra O?"
An amazingly bad artcicle (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:An amazingly bad artcicle (Score:5, Insightful)
There is an icon on the desktop, it says "get software"
You click on it and there is a list of hundreds of pieces of software. Each software has a description along side it. SOme have pictures too. Most are free, some you have to pay for.
When you want something you just click on install and it does, the icon shows up in your menu when you are done.
This is far easier then anything else including mac and windows. All the software that is compatible with your system is in one place. It's right at your desktop. 99% of it is free. It installs with one click.
None of this hunt the web sites, download something, unzip it, install it, click a licence agreement. Just click and install no problems with dependencies or anything.
How much easier could it possibly be?
Re:An amazingly bad artcicle (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes to people who have been using linux for over 10 years like myself the process is very quick I know where to look and what to look for and how to manage different windows managers. But for a newbie this is a incredible process that is way to much work. And most of them will just go screw it I will just use windows and face problems with bugs, crashes, viruses and spyware because I rather take my chances and be able to install the apps I want.
Re:An amazingly bad artcicle (Score:3, Insightful)
Hundreds? There are more pieces of software than that. What are the chances of this Xandros having all the programs that run on it in the world in one place? The odds are 0. Also this doesn't account for software that comes on CD, or only in source, or a newer version has been released but isn't in the Xandros depository. What
Xandros uses IE as default browser? (Score:2, Informative)
I don't know, I never tested Xandros myself, but please tell me they do not use a Wine'd Internet Explorer as the main browser, instead of say Konqueror, Firefox, Mozilla or galeon. Or might the table on page 8 of the report [choice.com.au] be slightly flawed, like the rest of the article? Talking about the ease of use of installing software on linux here, the call for antivirus software onlinux as a necessity for everyon with linux viruses being as rare as you-name-it (yet), the statement that none of the linux distros ke
No live CD? (Score:4, Insightful)
(MacOS9 used to include a livecd, infact the installer involved booting to a full macos desktop from which you ran the installer)
Installing software (Score:5, Funny)
Compare this to Linux, where installing software requires complex things such as clicking or even double-clicking an icon, which in turn requires learning to use a "mouse", a very counter-intuitive device, that you need to move while looking at something completely different, and when you reach the edge of the mouse mat, you need to carefully lift it and move it back to the center, such that the little arrow doesn't move, and then continue moving it where you already moved it once.
Partitioning for Dual Boot (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft's website seems only to be able to tell me how to remove Linux (1 [microsoft.com], 2 [microsoft.com]) and not have a Windows bootloader installed to allow me to run both. All the other Linux-related KB articles [microsoft.com] are to do with Virtual PC and SMB problems.
installing.
No! (Score:3, Insightful)
I know there are going to be posts saying that everything is fine on my system etc., etc., but the fact is everything should work on almost any common system. In case of XP all you have to do is run an exe files and you can watch videos etc.,. Yes it is insecure, virus are a problem blah blah, but the mindset of the avg user is that "Its okay if there is a virus, it is expected behavior" but its not okay if my xyz media file does not work, or my xyz camera phone does not connect. Moving people to firefox from IE is a very very trivial thing. Moving an entire OS is something totally different.
What does linux need? Well independence from scripting. The user should not have to edit any config file, and helpful support forums. Scaring away and abusing a newbie asking stupid questions isnt going to win any users. Remeber you were a newbie once. As far as the eye candy and user desktop environment is concerned, it is okay.Linux commands may as well be in Klingon... (Score:5, Funny)
Read my OS X vs Linux RAP (Score:3, Funny)
Whoa hold on you aint installing THAT shit on MY box
A crate of junk you put together yourself,
Wasting your life compilin' da ELFs
Now every distro is just a big mess
'Drake, Suse, Red hat ? ain't no progress
5 text editiors, 6 media players,
7 terminal apps later an' they call me a hater?
They say the Penguin has 1000s of apps,
And installing em all is where it's at !
Sluggish ass desktops, layers of bloat,
To draw a motherf*ckin' window on your screen that floats
KDE and Gnome are so motherf*cking slow,
Double click an' 5 seconds later still no go
So now you wanna run a lightweight gui
But don't be thinkin' y'all gonna be loopy
'cause ice, blackbox and twm
Are more like something from way back when
Computers were the size of living rooms
And Unix was the king of the dust and gloom
One problem is X Windows
from a prehistoric age, man it really blows!
It has no place on the desktop
Sooner it's is gone, sooner Linux stops being a flop
Then we haven't even talked stability
No sound, no floppy just kernel panic city
And then there's the Linux classic to mention
The Spontaneous Self Rebooting invention!
Buy yo that's if you even manage to install,
Beyond messed up X11 drivers 'an all
******(Chorus here don't know what yet...)******
Well I tried to open GIMP but nothing's working,
Please Linux stick to web serving!
KDE ? looks like Windows 98
Oh and KWrite, Konqueror, and Kate
KSpread, Ksim, Konsole and Kedit
Kaint Kno Kuse Kcause they all Ksuck there I Ksaid it!
And lets not talk about that other one
With da worlds slowest ass file browser listen son
Shall we make something even worse than KDE ?
Sure I know lets call it G-N-O-M-E !
Y'see thats why A double P - L - E's GUI
Which runs on F-R double E motherf*ckin' B - S - D
Kicks the L - I - N -U - X D - E catastrophe
Straight into a G - U - I inferiority!
So baby take your vi, I'll take my pico
You take your emacs, I'll take my BBEdit so,
You take your X11, While I be in my Aqua heaven
You will still be rpm an' sudo make install again!
In fact take your KDM, rterm and XClock,
I'll take my Finder with drag and drop
Heck you know what ? I'll even take the Dock!
I'll even take Sherlock!! (over that Linux flop)
Sure it don't cost no money, But shit that Linux aint funny
It's so old, crusty, dark and dusty, That only geeks wanna run it
And it's hell with it's 5 minute booting,
Compared to OS X's 10 seconds then login
It's nothin' but a motherf*cking joke
Still 20 years away from System 8.0
And compared to magic Mac OS X
Linux may as well just start again
And you see that's why Mac users,
Say Linux what's that, something for losers?
Too much choice (Score:4, Insightful)
'Mums and dads" want to go to Target, pick up Hallmark Card Studio, and Blues Clues for the kids, pop in the CD when they get home and have it all install and work automatically. They can get that with Windows.
There's too much choice in the Linux world for "mums and dads" to deal with: which distro, which user interface? People don't like choice, unless is about a topic they're really interested in. And "mums and dads" aren't interested in their computer's OS; they just want things to work. You pick out a name-brand PC (depends on which store you go to and what the salesman tells you) with Windows XP Home on it; you know that you can pick up any game or program and it'll just work, no major decision-making required.
Back when the choice included IBM PC, Macintosh, Apple ][, Commodore 64, Atari, I knew a LOT of people who complained that there were too many kinds to choose from. Why, oh why couldn't there be just ONE type of computer that'll run any program I buy? Now they've got what they wanted and they're happy, even with the virus/spyware problems. Linux, however, is all about choice.
Re:Too much choice - DEVO said it best... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is such a thing as having too many options and I think you've hit this on the head. People have too much to think about than configure computers. Most of us here have difficulty understanding that since this is the very thing we enjoy doing!
Zero Sum Game (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is they don't have what they wanted and especially not at the cost they want. Typing "M$" is old and busted but it came about for a reason.
Use your own analogy to really hear what any user really wants: Why oh why couldn't there just be ONE type of DVD player that'll play any DVD I
Re:Too much choice (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as it fits on a sticky-note, its cool.
I have customers that know the most obscure DOS strings for their 1991 era equipment they don't want to replace. They know nothing about computers or DOS, but they know all the commands they've been given over the years -- and they don't want Windows because its different.
Re:Too much choice (Score:4, Interesting)
With your "Windows-is-perfect-centric-biased" view, without even noticing it, you bypass all the real problems with the Windows model.
What is Hallmark Card Studio ? What is Blues Clues ? Why "choose" these apps ? Isn't there a lot of choice of these types of software ?
How "mums and dads" even got aware of these softs ? They have to actually leave their house to get the software ? How much does it cost ?
Who will install this (newbies are afraid of any dialog) ? Assuming it will install, will it work ? You say it will, nothing is less sure. Even games come with RELEASE NOTES full of identified problems !!!
They can get all these problems. Worse, they do, assuming the countless hours I lost helping people on this OS.
Contrast this with a Linux distro : no need to leave house, everything is there in the distro, nothing to pay, the description is there with a search button to find what you need. Documentation ? Mandrake comes with at least one full manual in each box, with PDF versions on the net http://www1.mandrakelinux.com/docs/Outputs/ [mandrakelinux.com] !!! Installation of software is a breeze.
I am european (french actually). I see the only thing Windows has left for it, is that it is ubiquitous. USA people do not see it, but there are A LOT of problems due to internationalisation (i18n) and localization (l10n) in Windows, that are properly dealt with in Linux (do not know OSX). I see that americans just forget these problems, when justifying grave design choices in Windows (like no difference between different case of characters). And I see that when Windows comes out on top in a comparison, that is because the comparaison is Windows centric.
OSX Installation (Score:5, Insightful)
pwned in 30 days! (Score:3, Insightful)
My friend just got a Windows machine for X-Mas as is now asking me why his computer is getting slower and what's this bargains.exe process he can't seem to get rid of.
How can they keep saying that Windows is ready for the desktop when this stuff happens after 1 month of use. Windows is not ready for the Aunt Tilley's.
Riddled with inacuracies (Score:3, Interesting)
Who's use iMovie as a media player? Dont dont have a clue. iMovie is a movie creation tool. Not a media player.
Mac OS X comes with QuickTime. THAT is a media player.
As part of the cons, they list it's firewall not being on by default. What good would turning on a firewall be if NONE of the ports are on by defaults anyhow? Good luck, chap, breaking into it.
Re:Riddled with inacuracies (Score:5, Insightful)
"Mac OS X could have more comprehensive help files and we'd like to see the inbuilt firewall switched on by default."
Anyone who thinks a default client-based firewall is anything but an admission that the OS developers couldn't figure out how to make any network services secure by default simply has NO BUSINESS even commenting on security issues.
I suppose that excludes most of the pundits online and in magazines, but that's always been true, all the way back to Jerry Pournelle (after his friend Maclean died, anyway).
Okay, so what is their point? (Score:3, Insightful)
We installed each of the Linux distributions side-by-side with Windows XP
We installed Windows XP and Mac OS X without partitioning the hard drive. Both operating systems include partitioning software that deletes your existing operating system and data.
So basically they installed MacOS and WinXP on a entire hard drive and then did a dual boot setup with Linux. They mention how certain versions of Linux will partition the hard drive and certain versions won't. They however don't give the same break to Linux. Try installing Linux on it's own hard drive. Windows and Mac software are more than capable to delete the exisiting software, well hell I can do that also with Linux.
Xandros was the only Linux distribution that didn't come with a LiveCD. Windows XP and Mac OS X aren't available on LiveCDs
Yet this is the only place they mention that live cd issue. Why is it not in the bad column under the bullet points for WinXP and Mac.
Easy-to-access software updates and security patches and fixes can save you time and hassle. Mac OS X and Windows XP automatically check for new updates and patches at specific times as long as you're connected to the internet. You can change the default settings if you wish. None of the Linux distributions offer automatic updates, but you can either download patches and updates from each manufacturers' website, or by using Linspire Click-N-Run or Xandros Networks. SuSE Linux and Mandrakelinux offer to look for updates during installation.
That is so you don't just throw a patch in there and have it create more problems. I still remember WinNT sp6 and the Lotus Notes issue and several others.
Unlike Windows XP, the Linux distributions and Mac OS X also let you restrict a program, such as ICQ, to a single user account. Additionally, in Linux and Mac OS X, the administrator is the only account with access to universal settings and files.
This is a good thing remember that.
Windows XP was the only operating system that couldn't recognise and open an imported Excel file -- the included office software is very basic so you need to install Microsoft Office or another more advanced program.
Even Linux distro's require Open Office or other software to be installed to read an Excel file the difference is that you can usually install them right after you install the OS. It may be included in the box set on one of the CDs or you can download it. Either way you don't have to go out and spend more than you paid for the operating system.
The difficulties with installing new software using a linux-based operating system arise when you want to install software from elsewhere.
I won't disagree here, extracting tarballs, unpacking an RPM, trying to have apt-get install a program can be a bit of a bear. Making sure you have all your dependincies. The difference is that if something goes wrong you can at least look into it. If the .exe doesn't install properly you are pretty much screwed. Now with FreeBSD you can install your programs from the ports tree with "make install distclean" or a package from the cd or ftp sites with "pkg_add -r foo". The dependincies will get installed automatically.
I understand the joe average user need. The thing is if joe average has worked with windows before coming to linux they will find things they don't understand and are very likely to get frustrated. The same applies in reverse take a *nix user who hasn't been with windows ever or since windows 95 and throw them into that enviroment. Watch them pull out their hair. While Linux (distros), OSX, and WinXP are operating systems they are very different and trying to find similarites isn't always going to be fair. If you have only ever driven an automatic car, driving a car with a manual tr
Complete crap (Score:3, Insightful)
You can't restrict applications to only one user account.
and basically the complaint that Excel isn't bundled with Windows but the other distributions of Linux/OSX have OpenOffice or something bundled with it that can read an Excel document. Microsoft always gets blasted for *bundling* apps (ooo...ooo... the beeg eval monopoly!) -and at the same time- blasted for not bundling apps (ooo...ooo... basic functionality left out!).
That "report" is nothing more than propaganda to further someone's agenda. It's garbage.
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Informative)
while the information is correct, man-pages suffer from severe information overload - something the average user certainly won't appreciate.
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Insightful)
Forget the help files. People want an OS that doesn't NEED help files. I'll agree that the review had some glossed over areas that suggested their testing wasn't very rigorous. I've been exclusively using Xandros for my small business for over two years (it's very good), and noticed the following issues with the review of Xandros:
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:2)
See also Autopackage [autopackage.org] for a nice attempt at easy installation across different distributions.
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:2)
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't shoot the messenger you idiot.
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Insightful)
Told him to google it and figure it out on his own. I mean - all the info is there in the HOWTO's. I think he's just lazy.
He told me to come back over and re-install Windows XP Home or he was writing me out of the will.
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Informative)
Did this guy even use the OS? It's called "man" buddy, and its definitely more than enough information.
Um, don't (at least) KDE and Gnome both provide help icons right there on the panel by default? I don't know if xfce and other do or not, but damn man, did this dude even try clicking on things? What kind of geek goes blindly into something without clicking on whatever he or she can find, consequences be damned? Isn't that how we all learned how electronics, electricity, plum
I am sure they did (Score:4, Insightful)
The pages are outdated, archaic and written in a way that takes too much time to find out anything useful and of course teh few existign exampels vaailable in Unix and Linux documentation are totally irrelevant.
I do not want to read a cool example of how to use a potato as a galvanic element in order to create a serial connection to a tomato - I want to find out how to use my serial modem to connect to Internet.
Most people don't want to read gibberish, or manuals at all. If Linux can't be made as easy to use as Linux, at least the instructions should be made usable.
When I build together a IKEA furniture I rarely look at the instructions, and when I do it is for a quick reference. I do not wish to read a 10 page book describing the philosophy behind the use of screwdrivers and cool things you can do with a screwdriver, like using it as a throwing knife on the cardboards that the furniture came wrapped in.
The elitistic attitudes and documentation does nothing but harm Linux and delays its introduction to the mass market. And it doesn't make you that cool either to point out the 'man' command.
man how do I connect to to Internet?
No such page.
Let's agree to disagree (Score:2, Interesting)
As you get dumber users, you inevitably get a dumber system to hold their fidgety, trembling hands in every little thing.
You don't like the installer? Well, sorry you're not smart enough to grasp "./configure make". (Gee that was tough!)
You don't like the Help system? Oh, did you forget to read the MANUAL that CAME WITH YOUR PACKAGED CD?
Linux is not here to hold our hands. That's what Linux distributors are
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:3, Insightful)
--
Just as an illustration, try "man find". It took me years to figure out that "find . -name {file_name}" would find all files matching {file_name} below the current directory - which I imagine is the usage of 99% of users.
Check out the description of the tool:
"find searches the directory tree rooted at each given file name by e
Re:Did the reviewer even try out the OS's? (Score:2)
This man page is an extract of the documentation of GNU
$program . It is updated only occasionally, because the GNU
project does not use nroff. For complete, current docu-
mentation, refer to the Info file $program.info which is made
from the Texinfo source file $program.texinfo.
Re:I disagree (Score:2, Funny)
Does Linux even have pf yet? Until it does, Linux will continue to be a niche OS.
Pico-farad? No way man. Linux is way tighter than that. Linux uses femtofarads!
Re:Get a real distro (Score:2)
Huh? Slackware's setup is anything but easy for most people. It's no sweat for me, as I first used it in 1994, but compared to WinXP, OSX, or one of the fruitygui Linux distros, it's not at all intuitive. I even had a glitch with it after not using it for a couple of years (I use Debian mostly), as did a friend of mine who uses almost exclusively BSD (he needed to use a piece of hardware that FreeBSD doesn't support).
Don't get me wrong, I like slackware a lot. Bu