Novell to port Evolution to Windows 346
Gladiat0r writes "Nat Friedman blogged on Planet Gnome today that Novell has hired Tor Lillqvist (of Gimp for Windows fame) to help Fredrik Hedberg port Beagle to Windows, and after that his main task is to port Evolution to Windows."
Damn (Score:4, Funny)
I believe the PC term is (Score:4, Funny)
Hippies has feeling too you know!
Wrong. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wrong. (Score:3, Funny)
Don't worry, Bush has that problem too [idrewthis.org]
Re:Damn (Score:3, Insightful)
Evolution is the Linux desktop killer app. It really is. I know this is slashdot, and here anything "K" is King, but KMail is a bad joke when you try to use it beyond simple POP3 collection SMTP sending. Evolution becomes ever more impressive with each release -- and the 2.0 series is a beauty.
Windows users would be extremely lucky to get Evolution... and I'll bet that many of them would find it one more reason not to stay with the expensive, buggy, security nightmare of Windows and Outlook.
OSS calendaring, finally! (Score:4, Insightful)
How nice... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:How nice... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How nice... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:How nice... (Score:4, Insightful)
When I'm on Windows, though, I do miss Evolution. This is a useful move.
Re:How nice... (Score:3)
Games, games, games. No, I don't play a lot of them either, but that's the number one gripe from people.
Fwiw I've only used Win2K twice in the past year and it's because I was on other people's machines in their houses. I don't miss any Win-whatever applications either, but then I wouldn't because I don't know what's in use these days.
Re:How nice... (Score:3, Insightful)
And its not a serious gripe. A wintel PC can be had pretty cheaply. Upgrade the video card and off you go. Or buy a console.
Game developers are not going to take any other OS seriously. The returns on porting over to OSX or linux are poor. Get used to it. Adapt or find better things to with your free time.
Re:How nice... (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, as a home user, apart from the current games, nothing much is needed.
For corporate users however, there are lots of things missing, like Lotus groupware clients, accounting packages, decent OCR, industry standard CAD (just a few out of the top of my head, there are lots of specific applications that just don't exist).
It's probable that Wine can help run quite a few of those things. However you probably forfeit su
Re:How nice... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this is how you get Windows apps to run on Linux.
1. Port leading OSS stuff over to Windows. If it's quality, you will likely have some adoption.
2. After enough people are using Evolution or another opensource app, some systems will likely be converted to Linux. Maybe in some pockets here and there, maybe more later.
Example: "Well boss, this business unit(s) only use web, office, and email. We are already using the Windows ports of these core apps, we should look into Linux during our next hardware/OS upgrade. We can run the same apps on a better OS"
3. With enough people/businesses running Linux, Windows applications will not be able to ignore the value in porting their app to Linux.
Example: "Well Mr. Vendor, we really like your app, but it needs to run on Linux too at our company. I can buy if you can run on both."
So, what does the market share need to be 5%, 10%...I don't know. But this is how you get in.
Re:How nice... (Score:4, Insightful)
Which of these will win out remains to be seen. One of the problems with Linux is that as there is no monolithic entity strategizing about this stuff on a macro level, just a bunch of individual entities following their own locally optimal development plans, you may not end up with a globally optimal strategy for OSS adoption or for the community as a whole.
Re:How nice... (Score:3, Insightful)
You've proposed a chicken-and-egg solution:
- Once no windows apps are necessary, people will switch to LINUX.
- Once they switch to LINUX, the necessary Windows apps will be ported.
Re:How nice... (Score:5, Informative)
And if that person is a responsible for an IT department that is currently negotiating to buy a site license for the latest version of Windows, well, suddenly Linux will look mighty attractive. A budget goes a lot further when you're not paying for Windows.
Re:How nice... (Score:3, Insightful)
We only need to look at OS X and all the praise it's getting from some of the former
Re:How nice... (Score:3, Interesting)
I am presuming that your complaint would be that if they already have Evolution on Windows why would they switch to Linux?
Re:How nice... (Score:2)
Anything that helps break MS's stranglehold, even on windows, is a good thing; not having to use Outlook, to get outlook-like functionality (but better, more reliable, etc.), is nothing but a good thing. No nasty sarcasm required.
Re:How nice... (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of linux advocates seem to think that keeping the "good" apps only on linux will win over converts. One day everyone is going to wake up and say "Hey! I gotta have (insert your favorite app here)!"
Guess what? It didn't happen in the last 10 years... it's not going to happen this year either.
Port your apps to win32 and when migrating to linux no longer looks like a steep learning curve (because the same apps live everywhere), then Joe Office Manager will look at linux seriously.
Re:How nice... (Score:2)
Good news for Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly! (Score:2)
The problem you have right now is that companies will balk at the notion of going to Linux on the desktop because they don't have Outlook and Office. If you can convince them of the value of alternatives on Windows, it opens the door to move them to Linux down the road.
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
Word... check
Excel... a few complaints
Powerpoint... check
Access... isn't somebody working on it?
Outlook... doubly forthcoming
What hurdles to Microsoft lock-in am I excluding here (on the client side only---I think we are OK on servers)? Integration?
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:2)
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:2)
People still use it.
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:2)
You'd be amazed what some monkeys wearing ties can (and will) do with Access. And how many people will be willing to run part of their business on such an app.
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:4, Informative)
Access the database may suck, but Access the GUI client is pretty nice. Sometimes people don't care about referential integrity, they just want an easy to use tool for organizing data, but want something better then a spreadsheet.
The GUI clients for MySQL are lacking
When you're creating relations between tables, a graphical table editor and a GUI that lays everything out for you is pretty nice and takes away alot of the eliteness of the DB world. I can get a moderately experienced office worker setup with Access very quickly, but using MySQL requires more experience.
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:4, Informative)
DBDesigner4 [fabforce.net] is an open-source database designer for MySQL. It's not really a replacement for Access, as it doesn't have a form designer for non-techies to enter records. But for all the fancy stuff like designing databases and forming queries, it's beautiful. My one beef is that it depends on Kylix, and as such I still can't compile it in Ubuntu. Worked great in Gentoo though.
A Halo port (Score:2)
Re:Good news for Linux? (Score:2)
Industry specific software. In banking, there is software for generating the mountains of deposit account and loan documentation required for new accounts - and that software is tied (fairly closely) to Windows.
clarification (Score:2)
Big If (Score:3, Interesting)
We've had pretty good alternatives to Word and Excel available on Windows for years. But the retraining and file compatibility issues prevent most people from going over.
Now if people suddenly start abandoning Word, Excel, Outlook, and Internet
Better get cracking (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Better get cracking (Score:5, Funny)
I wish MS would stop putting those "Linux is Just a Theory" stickers on school computers!
Ha! +1 Funny, that coward! (Score:2)
Oh, so that's what the little hologram says. They should've made it bigger so we can read it. Or is this a subliminal thing?
Actually, if you read the judge's ruling in that case, they'd have to prove that they weren't putting the stickers on primarily for marketing purposes if they wanted to continue applying them.
I've always thought the holo stickers were a bit of a two-edged sword; after all, if it was "designed f
Er... don't you mean... (Score:2)
Anyway, computers didn't evolve, they were progressively created. Hugh Ross [reasons.org] must be fairly happy about that.
Re:Better get cracking (Score:2)
Re:Better get cracking (Score:5, Funny)
what is evolution? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:what is evolution? (Score:2)
Re:what is evolution? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:what is evolution? (Score:2)
Here is the official site [novell.com] for it.
Re:what is evolution? (Score:2)
I'm guessing Novell is doing this for a better supported Windows email client that will work with their Groupwise mail system which now runs on Linux servers.
Re:what is evolution? (Score:2)
But you want a sentence?
Evolution is an email and PIM program that is directly comparable to Outlook including being able to connect to Outlook Exchange servers.
Define it in terms of what it is not (Score:2)
GroupWise mail support (Score:5, Informative)
Re:GroupWise mail support (Score:2)
Or, heaven forbid, they can work on two projects at the same time. Imagine the possibilities!
Look, a big group like Novell (or even the Novell division formally known as Ximian) is more then capable of working on two aspects of the same project at the same time. They don't need to be 100% done with Project A before starting the planning for Project B.
The GroupWise aspect is most focus
Re:GroupWise mail support (Score:3, Informative)
Plus, the GroupWise support is in beta testing, wheras the Windows port is still in the planning phases (according to Nat's blog).
Re:GroupWise mail support (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:GroupWise mail support on the server (Score:2, Informative)
Re:GroupWise mail support (Score:3, Informative)
You're not way off, this is correct. Evolution "supported" Exchange by sucking in the exchange data via Outlook Web Access 2000 or 2003. I would imagine that it still does Exchange in this fashion, and why not? Outlook 2003 now supports doing the same thing. Interesting how that works.
The actual announcement (Score:5, Informative)
Tor (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems that his work payed off for him. Congrats Tor, and keep up the good work.
Re:Tor (Score:2)
Re:Tor (Score:2)
But the Gimp is a great app and once you rearrange the toolbars into one window it almost looks usable. I've spend some time with it lately and it's a good photoshop replacement unless you know what you are doing when using photoshop (surprisingly few people do). Photoshop is just more p
Re:Tor (Score:2)
Oh. Wait.
Exchange compatibility (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Exchange compatibility (Score:2)
This is great (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This is great (Score:2)
Now, if the copy of Evolution ran you only $20, and actually included all the features you need... then we'd be talking.
Re:This is great (Score:2)
Re:This is great (Score:2)
I agree completely, I'd love to get my office off of Office, but there's just about a 0% chance that that is going to happen.
Re:This is great (Score:3, Informative)
Well, great. Or is it? (Score:4, Insightful)
I am just not sure if OpenSource should battle Microsoft on their own ground. They can change the rules anytime they like. And they have done so before...
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's OK. Just as long as everyone keeps using and enjoying OpenOffice, and using Psi to connect to our new Jabber server, and Firefox to use our web applications (FreeBSD/PostgreSQL/Zope), and now Evolution to read the email that gets filtered by our happy little Postfix server before it can choke the Exchange server to death, I'll smile and nod in agreement.
The truth of the matter is that except for one or two in-house apps, everything our employees use is either a port from Unix or interacting with a Unix server. We're really not that far from being able to drop Windows altogether, and Evolution will close the largest part of that gap.
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:4, Insightful)
You say that like its a bad thing but put it this way:
Your company runs OO.o, Evolution, and Firefox on Windows. You're asked to cut costs, so you point out that you can deploy the exact same thing on Linux. Minimal retraining will be required (quite possibly in the form of "If you can't figure it out, you're fired!") You get a pat on the back, and the CEO gets himself a nice fat bonus check. Problem solved!
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:2)
Let's just hope that it plays out like this:
1. The delay of longhorn causes many to use a more secure browser wich causes them to try other free softwa
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:2)
The goal is to factor out the operating system [robertames.com].
Nothing more, nothing less. After that, the goal is to factor out the document creation device (OpenOffice / AbiWord / KWord v. MS Word). Basically: "It doesn't matter what software you use, but the results that you produce".
--Robert
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:2)
Re:Well, great. Or is it? (Score:2)
Evolution provides Exchange Server connectivity. If Evolution becomes the mail client of choice in an organization, that's one less reason for Windows on the desktop in that organization (though, ironically, the backoffice Windows becomes more entrenched.)
Beagle and search extensions? (Score:2)
I've found this being something missing in Google, Copernic, X1, and Yahoo! Search which is a variant of X1. Basically all of them, except... (you'll never see this coming) Microsoft's new desktop search engine.
Please let Beagle get something like that if it hasn't already, so we don't have to rely on the
great news (Score:2)
Do you have any idea how many companies can not replace windows because they depend on Outlook?
Another great step on the way to migration.
Re:great news (Score:2)
Re:great news (Score:3, Informative)
Odds are pretty good that migration is an on going process. It is very hard to move "everything" at once to a new platform. One of the reasons that Windows did so well was that it ran dos apps.
A company that is thinking of moving will want to do it a step at a time.
I know my company is trying to do it now. Oh how people complained when we made them dump outlook for Thunderbird. Not to mention how some complained about using OpenOffice because it did not work EXACTLY like word.
Good news for GTK+ on Win32 (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good news for GTK+ on Win32 (Score:2)
Re:Good news for GTK+ on Win32 (Score:2)
Re:Good news for GTK+ on Win32 (Score:2)
Thunderbird/SunBird (Score:2, Interesting)
TB/SB is already cross platform and has a better framework than Evolution.
Sunbird is not a corporate calendar (Score:3, Insightful)
For one thing sunbird's events are events they aren't tied to users, etc.
It works great for a single person or a small group of people (i use it!) but it would never work well in a situation where events need to be tied to a user.
Great for Openoffice, etc (Score:5, Insightful)
That was certainly stopping many people from switching to Openoffice. With Evolution ported to windows, it's no longer the case, and having the exchange connector even more. Nice news.
Re:Great for Openoffice, etc (Score:2)
8 bit support is WORSE than 1.4
sorting doesn't work properly (did in 1.4)
interface is uglier (not that 1.4 was pretty)
it's SLOW (loading the calender is 30-45 seconds, and it's VERY slim with 5-6 events scheduled in the month)
exporting calendars/tasks lists doesn't work properly (no support at all in 1.4 afaik)
the only good thing about it is the IMAP that actually work like it should now.
maybe they should fix those issues before
Lowered Activation Barrier (Score:5, Insightful)
The last, most significant jump will be made smaller and easier, after new users become comfortable with that suite of applications.
Namely, Linux instead of Windows.
Which is down where an OS should be; a standard commodity, interchangeable, free, stable and not full of Innovations® like HTML renderers, special codec media players.
We need more of this! (Score:5, Insightful)
If people can use the same apps at work and at home on Windows and on Linux, full migration can be done.
Cheers,
Adolfo
Why this is exciting (Score:5, Interesting)
http://gatewayink.com [gatewayink.com]
OpenOffice (Score:2)
This is great! (Score:2)
This will also help Linux as well. As soon as more Windows people start using OSS on windows (such as firefox, evolution, beagle, and open office) instead of Microsoft products (IE, Outlook, .NET stuff, MS Office) the easier it is for them to move onto a new OSS OS! Once they are used to the ap
Open Source and cross platforms.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Evolution to Windows (Score:3, Funny)
An obscure company called "Microsoft" have already beaten him to it.
For those who don't know (like me)... (Score:3, Informative)
Will other developers quit? (Score:3, Interesting)
He's now in a the tough spot of deciding whether to eat his words or actually quit.
Migration is more than just the app (Score:3, Insightful)
So a port of the app is nice, but we also need de-mensa'd data migration tools.
This is great news (Score:4, Interesting)
Email on the other hand is a different story. I was very impressed with Evolution on LINUX. Having a Windows port would at least pry one finger on Microsoft's stranglehold in corporate offices... maybe.
I know the
If they did, the motivation for CIOs to use Evolution disappears.
There's also the security argument but many larger companies have wised up and your Joe Average User runs in a limited account to stop their desktop from becoming a festering pool of viruses.
The
Home users often fall in a few buckets:
1) Web based mail
2) AOL mail
3) Still blissfully ignorant and using Outlook Express
4) Have a geek friend who has proselytized open source and are now running an open source email client, e.g., Mozilla's client.
That leaves primarily the third group (and some segment of the fourth group) as candidates for Evolution. Assuming NOVELL doesn't expect to charge people for this. This will have some impact but nothing dramatic.
I personally, gasp, went back to Outlook. I liked the changes they made in Office 2003 and they eliminated some of the annoyances I had with previous versions of Outlook. I operated with the Mozilla email client for quite some time having eschewed Office 2000 and Office XP.
I would be happy to go to Evolution if for no other reason than I discovered that MS is as usual thwarting my attempt to run securely. Being a super savvy user (as well as a developer/security person) I happen to run Outlook in a stunted account, i.e. I run it in a different account (Windows "runas" command) and played with ACLs so that sensitive areas such as C:\WINDOWS and "C:\Program Files" can't be written to). You might ask why I didn't create a limitd account and run Outlook with that. Turns out if you do, Office will not leverage Windows XP's themes. Stupid. I don't like the "classic" Windows motif and prefer the default that comes with Windows XP. Anyway,
I discovered much to my chagrin that despite running Outlook in this fashion if I were to run Word (under my normal desktop account), save a document, then try to reopen that document later, Word simply cannot find the document. It will repeatedly stick up an error dialog on each attempt UNTIL I close Outlook, which happens to be running under a different user!!!
I've done Win32 development. It would seem the moronic MS Office development is generating a cookie, alias, moniker, etc., based on the window station I am logged into. They are probably using the Win32 handle and are keying into some shared memory. God for all you know they could be generating strings and putting them into the Global Atom Table.
Why would they do such a thing? Because *no one* would EVER think of running desktop apps in a secure fashion... right? What they have done is simply architecturally unsound.
If you are curious about Window stations:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?u
Re:Now if only... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Beagle port for Windows? (Score:3, Insightful)
Beagle is written in C#, and mono supports windows. Can't be that difficult to port to windows.
Re:How about making evolution work on Linux first (Score:3, Interesting)