Linux Desktop Guide 461
codergeek42 writes "The International Open-Source Network has created a desktop manual aimed at end-users with little or no prior knowledge of PCs. This manual goes through using The Fedora Project to do things from file-management to using the internet (as in browsing the WWW and using email), how to use the OpenOffice.org office suite, and even a basic intro to using the shell. This is definitely a step in the right direction for GNU/Linux, and the Free Software and Open-Source Software movements. And the cool part is that the entire thing is under an attributions-required OSI-approved Creative Common license, and is available in .sxw (OpenOffice.org Writer) or PDF formats."
Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, this is great, you've got your first Linux system. Whoops! Time's up. If you want security updates, it's time to wipe and reinstall!
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Funny)
It's on purpose, so people migrating from Windows get a familiar user experience and feel at home.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3)
If you have to install stuff that's no in the base distro (which AFAIK apt-rpm isn't) you're already asking more from a first-time linux user than you're likely to get. That sucks, but that's the way it is.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Funny)
It made my nostrils stick together, and I had to breathe through my mouth for three days.
(The doctor who eventually removed the glue had a hard time finding it because it was hide glue.)
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:2)
from my understanding... (Score:5, Insightful)
With that said I like fedora, it works fine,seems perfectly stable to me with only a few minor hiccups, no showe stoppers, and twice a year to plop a few Cds in isn't hard, and updating even on my old coal burner system and rural slow dialup is not hard either.
Basically, you can't have it both ways at the same time. If you want new and improved, well, the developers ain't lazy and come out with new and improved all the time, so there ya go. If you want to run a distro for a long time, then just run a distro for a long time. If it's gotta-haveit security updates, you might have to compile it in. thems the breaks. You can't have a 5 ton truck that gets 50 MPG, just ain't happening, some times ya got to make some compromises. I bet there's folks here still running RH6 probably, and similar vintage older various distros/OSes. Heck, I run new linux but I still crank up some old macs running 7.x and 8.x sometimes, and still got a laptop with win 95 on it that I (and who knows who else, heh) fool with occassionaly just for sport.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Interesting)
Any recommendations?
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Informative)
As far as I'm concerned Fedora is the best newbie distro available. SUSE and Mandrake are both weirder and more obtuse, in my experience, than Debian; they both have glaring obnoxiousness that is completely inexcusable for distros aiming at the markets the
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Insightful)
I see this kind of comment all the time and I just have to say something: if you know what needs to be done to get something working, then actually doing it is usually a piece of cake. It's figuring out what the problem is or what the best approach to co
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Insightful)
p4c 3ghz processor 800mhz fsb intel D865PERL motherboard (onboard lan, sound) Gainward Nvidia FX5900XT 512meg kingston value ram. 160gig
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Insightful)
I am so sick of people getting all up-in-arms about this "support lifespan" stuff.
Red Hat offers official support for two versions of the core OS. So when FC3 comes out Red Hat will stop providing updates for FC1.
This is NOT the same as it becoming usupported! It just means that there is no longer a for-proffit company donating its time to provide the updates. Instead, the provision of updates is handed back to t
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Informative)
My suggestion (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:My suggestion (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't tried Knoppix recently, so I don't know what has been done, but this is the ideal. We want a polished install program, which can handle partitioning with an icon on the desktop "Install to Hard Drive". Debian repositories should be automatically queried, and security updates downloaded automatically. It needs an "update software" program which shows a list of programs (not libraries), and installs necessary updates. Then it needs a "new software browser" which can browse and search the library of available programs (not libraries) and can install them. This would be it.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:2)
The only thing I'd be concerned about is the impacts of doing an apt-get dist-upgrade on one of these distros, as it could give some wholesale UI changes when KDE's version rolls. Has anyone done this?
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Informative)
Try SuSE 9.1. Almost all point and click. Uses RPM under the hood but installing security/recommended updates online is easy:
9.1 was released recently so updates should be available for a while yet.
I've no connection to SuSE other than as a satisfied user.
---
It's wrong that an intellectual property creator should not be rewarded for their work.
It's equally wrong that an IP creator should be rewarded too many times for the one piece of work, for exactly the same reasons.
Reform IP law and stop the M$/RIAA abuse.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Informative)
Max
What? no one mentioned Mandrake yet... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Informative)
There isn't a complete answer, but for me and my customers/business associates/employer, etc., a good answer has been Mandrake. It's non-US, so it's free to include such contraband items as mp3 decoders, and it has none of the bluecurve foolishness. Urpmi, while not nearly as elegant as apt-get, has the singular and very important benefit of resolving dependencies with supplemental packages in the Mandrake default install. This is something apt-get can't promise , at least without some tweaking (AFAIK, if I'm wrong, let me know), and it unlocks a much wider set of options to the new user than anything Fedora can do.
Admittedly, Mandrake 10 is a train wreck at the moment (stability, etc.), but 9.2 is a good platform for now, and is well supported. I have confidence that Mandrake will work out the problems with 10 (point release and all that), but I also had confidence in Red Hat, and we all see what that got me. My next stop on the Linux train will be Gentoo, if it comes to that.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Interesting)
IMHO you should try this anyway. I'd been using Mandrake for years when I tried Gentoo earlier this year, and it isn't hard to use for people that know what they're doing on Mandrake.
I have seen benefits that I didn't appreciate before I tried it, such as the design of the Portage system which means that each Gentoo install contains all of the build information for the whole distribution, and is simple to extend yourself.
Actually, it wo
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:4, Interesting)
Linux is designed as a multi-user system. The best way for it to work is via the client server model. You want someone who knows what they are doing to maintain the system itself, because it will never be easy. Then life for the clients is a dream come true. Thunderbird, Firefox, OpenOffice, Gaim, rox, xmms, giftui and gimp. Maybe sunbird in the future. 99% of people can get by on just that and be happy forever. Especially since its incredibly fast, feature rich, good looking, stable and secure.
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:3, Interesting)
If the user is going to install it themselves, I'd suggest Libranet. It's a customized debian that has a lot of user-friendly stuff put in it (easy setup for PPP, Flash, fonts, etc). The updates are debian so you know they're gonna be around in a 3 years -- although note that libranet encourages users to use libranet repositories, since they
Re:Uh... Fedora? (Score:5, Interesting)
Regards,
Steve
Clever (Score:4, Funny)
That's one way of ensuring the user has broadband and a large enough hard drive...
Fedora ??!!?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fedora ??!!?? (Score:4, Informative)
Suse 9.1- no DVD playback o-o-t-b; Fedora - no mp3 playback, o-o-t-b.
absolutely (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fedora ??!!?? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Fedora ??!!?? (Score:5, Informative)
After appearance of this manual I bet we should expect its clones appearing like mushrooms after a rain.
Re:Fedora ??!!?? (Score:5, Informative)
Under these conditions, you want a distribution that can be freely downloaded, burned and redistributed without restrictions or problems. Fedora fits that bill and is targeted towards the desktop.
Re:Fedora ??!!?? (Score:3, Informative)
I'd nominate Knoppix. Burn a disc, pop it in, reboot, read a friendly written manual to play with it. I've never thought of Linux as easy to use, but Knoppix seriously turned my head. Nice pleasant combination of auto-detecting everything and having the right stuff pre-installed.
right direction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:right direction (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway the first thing you should learn, just in case, is how to quit vi. (it's
Never forget IRC (Score:4, Informative)
Happy mandrake 10 user here. It just makes my life easier. Finally without a windows partition!!
I've been using mandrake for 2 years now... before that I was a windows fanboy.
Anyways... linux has been great. I am able to do everything I need to for my job in linux (CXOffice has been wonderful).
Re: Quitting vi (Score:4, Interesting)
"!" after a command in vi usually means "do the operation without prompting", or, to put it another way, forcibly do the operation, even though you may lose information (e.g., ":w!" will overwrite a file that you have opened read-only (i.e., with "view"), or that you indicated was read-only with the ":se readonly" command).
Dear /. CrapMerchants... (Score:4, Funny)
http://www.openoffce.org/
http://www.openoffice.org/
Re:Dear /. CrapMerchants... (Score:2)
Is manual a solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
Will grandma get such guide and follow through step by step command lines to achieve something?
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:4, Insightful)
I am really missing konquerors spell check right now.
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:3, Insightful)
The only form of a seperate manual that a good OS should really need is one that guides the user through the very first steps of the installation and on
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:3, Funny)
Hooray puns!
Re:Is manual a solution? (Score:3, Funny)
Good step. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good step. (Score:5, Informative)
Nice, but they've got it all wrong... (Score:3, Interesting)
Does Linux have top education marketshare? No.
So is the chance that people's very first system will be Linux high? No.
Does this make this whole thing pointless? Yes.
What do stores sell a new user if they don't know what they want? Windows. Therefore they will learn Windows. The only way they'll find out about this report is if they go online and find it, and then if they're not a techy user, they're not going to want to install something like an OS for themselves. This is a pointless exercise to make the open-source community hope for an influx of new users, when the fact is while stores still sell Windows machines, while mummy and daddy still have a Windows machine in the living room, while little Johnny's school uses Windows machines... Microsoft's monopoly is self-sustaining.
It doesn't matter how many guides you put out for Linux aimed at the 'new user', there are no users who've never used a computer before who are likely to run Linux - they're going to run what the store tells them to run, or what the computers in their house already run - Windows. The monopoly self-sustains. Unless all us nerds train our kids from birth to use *nix, and they all train their kids, etc, etc, etc, only Microsoft can destroy their own monopoly. Our only hope is that a catastrophic worm makes it impossible to ever use Windows, as other than that, reguardless of how many 'Linux for Total Newbies' PDFs people put out, those 'total newbies' will be reading it from a Windows machine, and the vast majority of them will be too scared or too stubborn to switch.
This will probably get modded troll, but that's the way it is - this is the wrong approach to be taking, and for all the people us few thousand nerds convert (very few), there's going to be a few thousand more kids growing up using mummy and daddy's Windows machine, perpetuating Microsoft's mindshare. We need to find a way to deal with it, and this is not it.
Baby steps (Score:4, Insightful)
Plus, if it fails, it's the writer's time that is wasted, not yours.
Re:Nice, but they've got it all wrong... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Nice, but they've got it all wrong... (Score:4, Insightful)
I almost agree with you. The point, though, is that Microsoft is being squeezed by Linux in very real ways.
There's a tremendous amount of inertia keeping Microsoft going, but in every real sense - marketshare, mindshare, install base, ease of use, as examples - Linux is gaining against both the other Unixes and Microsoft.
The Dell laptop on which I type this is running Fedora Linux - and with only the exception of the integrated wireless card, does an excellent job. (I use a D-Link PCMCIA to use wireless - cost me $9)
We don't have to "cru5h M$" to succeed. As a consumer force, Linux only needs to be a "viable alternative" to keep the Microsoft abuses in check.
Of course, Microsoft has long ridden on the coat-tails of "cheaper", but that's stopped now, and Microsoft is having to change their tune every 3 weeks...
No, it's quite right because it's a great start. (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it would be far healthier to continue to let a thousand flowers bloom.
No you do. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Nice, but they've got it all wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem I see is your posting this to slashdot. On here, I would be VERY surprised if 85%+ of the people on here DID NOT start (or have a significant portion of their computing life) on Microsoft DOS/Windows/etc.
So you look at these people, who now run either exclusive a *nix system, hybrid setup or at least have a certain sustainable interest in the FOSS movement.
I tried out Slackware Linux back in 1996ish and was turned off fairly quickly since it just seemed like too much work, revisited it a few years later, thought the same thing. It wasn't until I was trying to learn ASP when I came across PHP (thanks to the recommendation by a webmaster) and coupled with a step-by-step how-to about PHP/MySQL was able to finally achieve my goal.
At that point in time, I thought the world of PHP. Not only was I able to grok it MUCH faster than ASP/MSSQL development but it was totally absolutely 100% free. The fact it was a FOSS/GPL product sparked my interest enough to finally buckle down and start truly learning Linux.
No friends knew Linux, my school didn't have Linux, my workplace didn't have Linux. However, I was drawn by it. I'm guessing there are a LOT of others out there that will find value in Linux but simply do not know about it.
Perhaps this is just what I need as an advocate of Linux and FOSS. If someone has interest, I can reference them to this guide to *hopefully* get them up to speed and using Linux much faster than I ended up "taking up linux".
Perhaps people who have never used a computer *MIGHT* be using Linux as their first system. Linux makes a GREAT public terminal. Linux is GREAT for computer labs at schools and coupled with a Knoppix CD, Students can use the same exact programs from school at their homes, at friends houses and so forth. It truly does make sense for a lot of applications where individuals are exposed to computers. Perhaps its time for guides to be available for these users -- nothing that hammers on the command line or installation but rather applications, interface usage and other basic computer GUI skills.
Asssuming users have no knowledge is a good idea (Score:4, Interesting)
I think this guide is a fantastic idea for people like my uncle. The guy absolutely hates Microsoft, for a variety of reasons that will be familiar to most Slashdot readers. But he has never switched to anything else because he's too afraid of losing compatibility, not being able to use MS Office, etc. I should say he *was* afraid, because I recently gave him an old G3/500 iBook running Mac OSX, and he loves it.
Now he is ready to take his old Wintel box and put Linux on it. This manual will be perfect. I can pass it his way, have him give it a read-through, and then I'll go over to his place and we'll run through a Linux installation together.
There are a variety of folks out there who have a strong dislike for Microsoft products, but have no real experience with anything but Microsoft. They know that many pundits say OS X is a better user experience. They know that Linux is out there too. But they need all the help they can get in pushing past the extremely strong inertia that Microsoft has created.
You are quite right in saying that "the vast majority of them will be too scared or too stubborn to switch," but I believe that if there are multiple avenues (in the true *NIX tradition) for people to take in their quest to find alternatives to Microsoft, so much the better. Linux has never been about "The One True Way" and I think it's a bit much to expect that we will ever find "a way to deal with it." Why not present multiple paths?
Re:Nice, but they've got it all wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the lack of good documentation is keeping first time users away from Linux? Maybe if we fix the things that drive users away, we'll have a bigger user base? It seems to me that a high quality system that isn't attracting novice users ought to think about producing good documentation. You certainly haven't demonstrated that it is pointless.
And the linux community needs to be ready to absorb those users when it happens. Some might say it's already happening, or that it's inevitable.
Why not? Just because linux doesn't attract many casual users doesn't mean we should assume they don't exist, nor should we criticize efforts to attract casual users. Certainly other things need to be worked on as well (useability, more robust configuration tools, etc...), but not everyone is a coder, and not every problem is fixed with code.
-jim
Admirable (Score:5, Interesting)
Still, efforts like this NEED to be undertaken, if it's one thing OSS projects often lack is documentation.
CV*)($#B
A good idea, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither a
I know we're into OSS evangelism here, but honestly, for someone new to PCs, it would be much better to choose the platform most common and hence easiest to find advice and help for, and that's Windows. As I've seen with my grandparents, learning PCs for the first time is hard enough as it is without the extra trouble of pursuing a minority desktop OS.
UNIX on the desktop in 3 steps! (Score:3, Insightful)
Step 2: Put Mac on desk; power up.
Step 3: There is no step 3!
Re:UNIX on the desktop in 3 steps! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:UNIX on the desktop in 3 steps! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:UNIX on the desktop in 3 steps! (Score:4, Informative)
But if you have a reason for saying that OS X doesn't have the power of unix in it, I'd like to hear about it. It's meant for a workstation or desktop, but it can certainly do traditional unix server stuff.
Re:UNIX on the desktop in 3 steps! (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't recommend it though. Darwin has horrible performance. Especially for unix related tasks like file IO, network IO, pipes, and building and tearing down processes.
There's no comparing Linux versus OSX when it comes to the server space. On the exact same hardware, linux outperforms OSX.
As far as I'm concerned, OSX's "power of unix" is no different than installing Cygwin on WinXP.
I'm concerned their efforts are for nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
I would have chosen Mandrake over Fedora because Fedora is meant to be Red Hat's bleeding edge test bed. Mandrake is easy to set up and as long as don't care to tweak around with it much, it'll do you fine.
Computer use is getting so complex and most of us here don't even realize it. To explain the simplest tasks to someone who knows nothing about computers is not easy and I think it needs to be taught rather than dictated to in a book. And a book at that, a pdf is only useful if someone is going to print it out in lieu of teaching someone.
Nobody learns to drive a car by reading a manual, and no one should be expected to learn a computer by manual either.
Re:I'm concerned their efforts are for nothing (Score:2)
This is definitely better than the books I've seen for newbies on Linux.
BTW, I do this sort of thing for newbies on Win machines, and I'd definitely recommend/give it to people asking for a simple manual. (And yes, I do get requests for Linux)
Another good book on Fedora... (Score:5, Informative)
Teach Yourself Red Hat Linux Fedora [amazon.com]
SuSe or Fedora? Fedora is actually great! (Score:4, Interesting)
Installing applications are not that hard unlike the earlier days. I recommend rpm.pbone.net [pbone.net] to find your applications packaging for Fedora, I have been 99.99% successfull! And with the brand new Yum, staying upto date is always a breeze.
I also recommend adding Dag Wieers [wieers.com] repository in your yum configuration and this particular one releases very useful applications/updates. Needless to stay, once you load fancy themes [freshmeat.net] and eye-candy like gDesklets [gnomedesktop.org] you really can grab the eyes of people around you while giving you a pleasurable user experience.
Friendly linux users/community more important (Score:2, Interesting)
I have been using linux for about 5 years, and I have used most of the major distros for a while (Slackware, Red Hat, Debian, Mandrake, Gentoo). One of the things I find lacking is a friendly support group that doesn't just tell you to "RTFM, you n00b!".
I think Gentoo is definitely heading in the right direction, so far the gent
But (Score:3, Insightful)
when your new 9800 PRO isn't supported by X?
well, seeing as it's also not supported by windows (Score:3, Informative)
yeah... right. (Score:2)
I seriously hope it's not written in English, then. Everyone able to use a computer that can speak English already likely is.
Ever heard of that joke... (Score:4, Funny)
Erm... This reminds me, I have to go watch that videotape that'll show me how to use my VCR.
Linux made huge advances in user-friendliness (Score:5, Insightful)
Since SuSE Linux is the only distro I have extensive experience with, I use it as an example. Installation is as easy as booting off your DVD, selecting your language, accepting a few default options for partitioning and package selection, choosing your username and passwords, and waiting about half an hour for the system to install. And off you go surfing the net and writing letters with OpenOffice! The last time I ran into serious difficulties with a SuSE install was more than a few years ago.
A Windows install? The first few steps are quite similar, but once the system is installed the fun begins: insert manufacturer disk to install custom drivers; insert MS Office CDs to install word processor; hop on the web to download Acrobat Reader; install IM client, jukebox, IE replacement, firewall, and whatnot. With Linux all the stuff a beginner needs is already there; no need to hunt around for programs. And no need to reinstall every few months because a worm messed up the system.
Granted, with Linux you have to pay attention what hardware you choose, especially concerning printers and modems. But the time where you have to touch the command line in order to get Linux to run has passed quite some time ago.
Re:Linux made huge advances in user-friendliness (Score:3, Insightful)
You've made an excellent point that's often left either unmentioned or underrated. Once a typical user has passed the basic web browsing/e-mail/file management experience, Windows reveals itself as painfully ina
Re:Linux made huge advances in user-friendliness (Score:5, Informative)
1) Insert bootable disk.
2) Open Control Panels.
3) Open Startup Disk.
4) Click on the name of the disk you want to boot from.
It's not just a matter of making the installer easy to use, or making the GUI easy to use, but making the *computer* easy to use. Apple has many negative points, but one of the things they've always done right is to treat the computer as a whole, and not just a sum of parts.
It's not a Linux distro that needs to be made easy-to-use, it's a Linux PC... Linspire is on the right track. Microsoft does it by having their OS installed by default.
the shell (Score:3, Funny)
Mirror (Score:4, Informative)
The original page with links is http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
Files are still being downloaded, you can see how many are present from the first link.
Torrents will be available when downloads are complete at:
http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
I am fed up... (Score:3, Insightful)
There is more to that story but its proof enough to me that non-technical people can happily use it. And although I am around the house to help if things go awry. My assistance is rarely needed to fix things. When they used windows I would often get frustrated with the constant problems I had to fix for them.
My point is if you are non-technical windows can be just as annoying. if not worse than a properly set-up linux box. If you are an experienced linux user and are fed up of fixing friends or families windows boxes belonging to non-techies. In my experience once they are up and running those problems seem to dissappear, your life and theirs just got better.
The only confusing thing for new linux users is breaking the habit of buying off the shelf software. In addition their is the issue of Windows games not running. If they are a hardcore gamer chances are they are fairly technical anyway. My PS2 does just fine for me.
Anyway the point of this post was not really to post "yet another example of how linux can work well for non-techies" but actually to ask this question...
Does anyone know of a website containing l success stories and examples of non-techies who have found the joy linux has brought into their computing lives? Because if one does not exist, I'd like to consider setting one up. Anyone interested or with similar stories please post here.
Re:this looks like a job for...Google Cache! (Score:5, Informative)
Not bit torrent, but it'll have to do...
Google Cache [66.102.7.104]
-jim
Re:this looks like a job for...Google Cache! (Score:2)
Re:this looks like a job for... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Here is the only guide you need (Score:5, Funny)
Not enough time to look back between security updates, and A/V, anti-spyware and personal firewall software installations I guess...
Re:Here is the only guide you need (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Here is the only guide you need (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Here is the only guide you need (Score:4, Insightful)
The truth is that anyone who follows the advice of Windows and their ISP can be secure with a minimum of effort
ISP can never secure your box. ISP has to be defaulted to be open at least for it's internal network, which is often large. And can't block too much, because ISP could loose customers. Most of ISP's don't know shit about securing your box, because common ISP technical support mostly isn't qualified for that. I must admit that I was surprised once, when I talked to a guy on a level. It just turned out that he was from other department and temporally filling the gap in support.
With Service Pack 2, where Windows enforces it and doesn't just suggest it, it's even easier. The Linux community is out-of-touch...
1. Linux doesn't suggest firewall, it is enabled by default
2. So, having firewall that works in both directions is out-of-touch? Windows fw blocks only outside traffic, inside is not checked.
The fact is that Windows XP is actually a really good operating system...
Every fool has it's own horse! me? I got Linux
it's faster than Linux
Yeah, Windows starts Office faster, otherwise everything is dog slow
it's stable
Me and you obviously live on different planet. On our planet Windows is like a magnet to viruses, spyware and other malware.
it's a hell of a lot easier to use
Not for my needs. I agree that everyone without a clue what to do with his computer or someone who just wants to play games it is easier. But then again I have a clue and I have PS2.
it has a better security model than Linux.
Better security model as in....???? Windows hasn't got even real multi user environment. Two or three months ago M$ posted article how to write software for multiuser environment. To get a clue what I'm talking about. Start photoshop, Swithch user, Start another photoshop. Photoshop preferences blow, Ctrl-Alt-Shift become your friends (either that or that's $35 for Adobe support). This is the same tragedy as in most of Windows software.
Firewall-Like-One-Way-Toy was introduced with SP2???
So much talked-about
Windows is just getting with security where Linux was 5 years ago. For your information. Linux is moving away again with SELinux to be enabled by default.
And now the obligatory: "But of course this post opposed the Slashbot groupthink and will be modded down."
No, your comment is just stupid, that's all
(I think people say that because those posts always get modded up.)
Your comment is too stupid to be modded up, even if you beg as you do.
Re:Yeah, this would work... (Score:3, Informative)
While I use suse, not fedora, I have installed fedora on several computers, and had no trouble whatsoever with the install or setup.
The nvidia issue is like a newbie 101 type question, - the fudster tripped up a few times, one of them was in the nvidia driver install. No, you don't recompile the kernel. You simply install the nvidia driver (without the GUI running), edit 1 line in the X config file, and r
Re:Yeah, this would work... (Score:2, Informative)
I'm sorry I insulted Linux, sir, I take it back.
Re:Yeah, this would work... (Score:4, Insightful)
The original poster complained about some stuff. The reply pointed out some places where his complaints are inconsistant with reality (i.e. you don't need to recompile the kernel for nVidia drivers).
This person is not necessarily representative of the Linux community. Yes, he came off elitist. However, we're also reading Slashdot, where every elitist nerd comes to post his tripe. There are plenty of friendly people in the Linux community ready to help out newbies. Slashdot is not the place they hang out to do tech support, though.
Also, the "not worthy of my time" type comment was aimed at pointing out the other arguments the original poster made that aren't consistant with reality, not with providing tech support.
But, posting "blah blah Linux elitism blah blah will never succeed," is guaranteed to be modded insightful, even though it's bullshit. You think there aren't elitist Windows or Mac users? If you do, you're deluding yourself.
Re:Yeah, this would work... (Score:2, Insightful)
What a distro is going to have to do to get the desktop user:
First, get every available driver they can get their hands on and test to make sure it all works out of box. This may mean living with the fact there is something inside that isn't "free", and then working out any licensing issues (even if it means shelling out some cash or doing some fancy legal work).
On top of that, it needs to crash "
I call bullshit. (Score:3, Informative)
Bullshit. I am a longtime computer user with a goodly amount of grey hair. You were probably in diapers when Windows 3.11 came out. Windows 3.11 came with exactly jack and shit functional. It had Solitaire, but that's about it. Need TCP/IP? Download Trumpet Winsock. Then download Mosaic and Pegasus Mail. Oh yeah, install all your apps...maybe Word, maybe Word P
Re:Yeah, this would work... (Score:3, Insightful)
> my worst Windows installs always end up with
> more things functioning than with the best
> Linux installs.
So the only program you use is Solitaire and Calculator, must be because there weren't any other programs installed.
> I don't know what went wrong, but it absolutely
> refuses to accept my disc 3's.
So you skipped the 'check cd test' and got bitten by a badly burned disc 3....
> Immediately upon loading Gnome, it tells me I have
> som
Re:Concise guide to Linux on the deskop for non-te (Score:3, Insightful)
I see you've managed to completely ignore the posts about Suse and how easier to install than either Win2000 or WinXP. If the non-technically inclined can click on a few buttons, do the standard installation, and be surfing the web in a half hour or so, then I'd say that Suse is pretty fucking ready for them.
The only thing easier is having it pre-installed.
Max
Re:Concise guide to Linux on the deskop for non-te (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm talking about daily use and administration. How easy is it to change software settings, install new software, view the word file their friend sent without having its format screw up, and edit that picture.
Yes there free apps out there, but they're often esoteric. Yes the install process is much better than the days of the ol
Re:Concise guide to Linux on the deskop for non-te (Score:3, Insightful)
-didn't have a working modem
-didn't have a working wireless card
-didn't have working bluetooth
-displayed at 640x460 in 256 colours
Software I then had installed amounted to:
-notepad
-wordpad
-paint
-windows media player
-internet explorer
-outlook express
After installing Mandrake 10.0 on it:
-modem didn't work (winmodem, par for the course)
-wireless didn't work (Intel Pro Wireless 2200)
-displayed at 1600x1200 instead of 1680x1050 (so you had to
Re:Concise guide to Linux on the deskop for non-te (Score:3, Interesting)
-didn't have a working modem
-didn't have a working wireless card
-didn't have working bluetooth
-displayed at 640x460 in 256 colours
Software I then had installed amounted to:
-notepad
-wordpad
-paint
-windows media player
-internet explorer
-outlook express
After installing Mandrake 10.0 on it:
-modem didn't work (winmodem, par for the course - he doesn't need it now so I haven't installed the vendor's linmodem driver yet but it does work onmy lapt
Re:watch that tape on how to use your vcr...dumbas (Score:3, Informative)
And how do you