Novell as Open Source Hero? 283
ccnull writes "Who's the #2 Linux vendor in the world? Would you believe Novell? Infoworld takes a look at this long-struggling giant and how it has (and hasn't) reinvented itself as an open source company in the face of utterly losing the LAN market to Microsoft." The piece argues: "But even though it seems to be holding all the right cards, Novell faces tough odds. In recent years, tough competition from Microsoft and dwindling support from third-party developers have caused Novell's once-loyal base to look elsewhere for infrastructure needs. Unless it can win back the loyalty of the industry, Novell's new, Linux-centric message could fall on deaf ears."
Mono (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Mono (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously though, I don't think Mono is that important, yet. The main reason, I believe, for buying Ximian was their Desktop and Connector products, whereas the Mono part was a strategic investment.
Re:Mono (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mono (Score:2, Informative)
There's a nice Case study of upgrading from Suse 8.2 -> 9.0 using APT [geocities.com]. Didn't quite work as cleanly as a major Debian upgrade, but sure as hell beats re-installing the whold OS (as redhat and suse's yast installer seem to enjoy)
Re:Gentoo (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Gentoo (Score:3, Informative)
That I find that Gentoo's startup scripts and the way
Re:Mono (Score:3, Informative)
But by far the best part of compiling has to be dependencies...
Many programs have optional features which are only turned on if certain libraries are present, for instance kerberos support in pine and some other packages... If you use a precompiled distribution then all these packages will be c
Gentoo is not just source based. (Score:2, Informative)
As for compiling yourself and any speed improvement, that's dependant on what CFLAGS you use and how fast your computer actually is, and what processor you have. Some people won't notice a difference, some people do, and the people th
Effective? (Score:4, Insightful)
Evidence? When I say "Red Hat" what do you think of first? When I say "Novell" what do you think of first?
They really need to get to the point where people instantly think "Linux company" instead of "failed network company" when they hear the Novell name.
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Insightful)
Give it time. Red Hat has
Besides - some of their brands do get people instantly thinking "Linux company".
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Interesting)
* integrated connectivity to Novell GroupWise
* integrated connectivity to Microsoft Exchange
* improved offline support for IMAP accounts
* numerous calendar improvements,
* support for S/MIME, enhanced contact management
* Gaim instant messaging integration
* Improved desktop integration
Especially the integration with MS Exchange is somewhat unique for a linux application. If Novell can provide a linux-based desktop that integrates perfectly with a MS Windows environment, then they are a step ahead of RH&Co and are close to becoming (at least my) Open Source Hero.
Re:Effective? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Effective? (Score:3, Informative)
Technically this is true, but the connector basically uses Microsoft Outlook Web Access via HTTP. Nice toy, but I wouldn't want to use it in anger.
Re:Effective? (Score:3, Informative)
-Mark
And don't forget... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish them all the best.
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Interesting)
When I say "Novell" what do you think of first?
But which company is worth more?
Surprisingly, they're both about exactly the same. 2.71Billion for Novell and 2.76 Billion for Red Hat according to Yahoo Finance today.
Not that market-cap means a lot, but it was surprising to me. I suspect it surprises both groups - open source fans will be surprised to see the "failed network company" be worth so much - especially considering Red Hat was once worth 10X as much. And I suspect old-school-corporate types would be surprized to see a bunch of Linux hippies being worth as much as a giant like Novell.
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
It's surprising that they're "worth" the same, since Novell's revenues are about 8 times those of Red Hat, according to their latest 10-K filings.
Of course, Red Hat is growing each year, whereas Novell has been shinking slightly (though they've maintained over $1 billion in revenues each of the last 5 years). And Red Hat has finally managed to make its first small profit, while Novell hasn't made a profit in 3 or 4 years.
But you'd think Novell's acquisition of SuSE would position them to be an importan
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Effective? (Score:2, Insightful)
I wish them well. More strong Linux/OSS companies can only be good for overall computing experience.
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
Owning a linux company gives a lot more "instant credibility" than just trying to convert your old stuff to run on linux (which is what I thought Novell was doing before).
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
For me, I'll likely be giving SUSE 9.1 a try within the next couple of weeks, and it doesn't matter one whit that it's actually "Novell-SUSE" or whatever.
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Interesting)
that "failed network company" who still pulled in over a billion dollars in revenue last year, and whose massive deployments now look like having an upgrade path to GNU/Linux? :-)
What do we think of when we say "SuSE"?
I'm sure there's many people who are happy they haven't started branding "Novell Enterprise Linux". "Entwicklung" is such a great word...
Re:Effective? (Score:2, Funny)
The crappy Novell Netware client stuff they used on the computers back in high school.
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
The novell client wasn't bad atall, it was windows 3.x and dos that was the problem, and later versions of windows being designed to use their own networking components and hinder use of novell's.
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux company, one in a dozen, happens to be the biggest.
When I say "Novell" what do you think of first?
Technically superior, way underappreciated.
At least, thats what I think.
I feel Novell is technically better than RedHat. The application support and the customers just aren't there. Anyone who has used Novell seriously will agree that there is no equivalent to GroupWise, ZENWorks or eDirectory on the Linux platform and there are only lower quality alternatives for the windows platform. Bringing this to Linux could make Linux it a serious option for larger companies...
Re:Effective? (Score:2, Funny)
BETAMAX!
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh? what does this have to do with the price of cheese? Novell Inc has been around since 1979 - Linus was still running around in shorts then.
Most folk probably think of Novell as a rather large company specialising in networking software - that's exactly what they are. They like linux because it's an alternative to Microsoft, and over in the Microsoft world there's a bigger company trying to sell copycat versions of many of Novell's programs. In the linux world there's a lot of demand for enterprise grade networking and groupware software.
When you think of IBM, does Jo Bloggs think of a Linux company? I wouldn't expect so - they too like linux because it fits in with their core products and strategies.
Novell are a major Linux company now because they own SuSE and Ximian. Now they are Linux companies, they just happen to be subsidiaries of Novell Inc.
Re:Effective? (Score:3, Funny)
hey, I think "ancient network giant". Hmm it looks like a good name for a nethack monster
Re:Effective? (Score:5, Insightful)
I've been around Netware for 12 years and CNE'd from v3 to v6. They set the standards for certification, which everybody else has now copied. You also needed to know your stuff to get the CNE, something that isn't necessary for MCSE. I know because I got my first MCSE (on NT) from reading books and never touching the OS.
There are, allegedly, millions of Netware users out there. Having been involved in large Netware and MS environments the idea of scaling AD to work across the world on a 30,000 user system frightens me to death. I know I can do it with NDS but the flexibility of AD isn't there and would be highly unstable and be far more support intensive. The kludges Microsoft use to get their software to work is a pain to support but it looks nice and has a setup wizard so people get sucked in.
Therefore, I see that Novell's move into Linux is a very good thing as it gives an option for these large global networks to move from Netware/Intel to Linux.
Most people in IT also except that Linux is going to arrive, one day. However, the supportability of Linux is the downside of any corporate installation. Now we have Novell's support infrastructure backing Linux, everything is perfectly positioned for Linux to enter the corporate marketplace. I, for one, intend to certify in the Linux direction so that I can ride the crest of this wave as I'm confident that Netware to Linux migrations will increase in popularity and that in a few years time we'll have AD/Win2003 to Linux migrations happening.
Re:Effective? (Score:2)
I think of the company who renamed the most popular Linux distro on the planet in order to try to get businesses to pay attention to their Enterprise product line, but just ended up confusing the people who make product decisions but know little about Linux.
"When I say "Novell" what do you think of first?"
Honestly, I think of ZenWorks, which is a pretty cool sysadmin tool that currently works with or without NetWare (but I don't think is working on a Linu
Is Ximian dead? (Score:5, Insightful)
The next version of Evolution is called "Novell Evolution", their Website is redirected to Novell and there hasn't been any significant update to Ximian Desktop for a while. XD2 is the only product labelled "Ximian" anyways.
I really would love to see some kind of roadmap or at least some kind of statement about Ximian Desktop. (As Novell provided for Evolution and Mono).
After they acquired Ximian they talked about keeping Ximian together and their products still being worked on. As I see it this is not the case and I feel very sad to lose Ximian eventually.
Re:Is Ximian dead? (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be quite interesting to see if they pull the same move on SuSE and call the next Linux release 'Novell Linux X' or somet
Re:Is Ximian dead? (Score:3, Informative)
When a SuSE/Novell rep came to my university to try to pitch his wares to our Linux admin group, he said quite clearly that Ximian Desktop's going to be a Novell exclusive. That doesn't mean they're going to suddenly pull their source tree, but if you liked XD (and it's not bad!), you're going to need to move to SuSE. He also said they wouldn't be releasing a general Netware client program, but implementing it into SuSE. I'm assuming it'll be open-sou
Re:Is Ximian dead? (Score:5, Informative)
The Ximian hackers are still together. As a matter of fact, they moved into some really nice new offices in Cambridge from Boston. They are still doing what they do best.
Evolution: 2.0 is due out this year. It's awesome. It required a ton of work and most of the people who did 1.0 are doing 2.0, they're still there.
Ximian Desktop: Wait and see for this one. You'll see.
Connector: GPL'd. This surely isn't a bad thing from the open source community's point of view, is it?
Yes, maybe some of the branding is gone and the name Ximian isn't used as much, but it doesn't mean Ximian is dead. Far from it.
Novell will do alright in the Linux market (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Novell will do alright in the Linux market (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Novell will do alright in the Linux market (Score:2)
You're quite right, Novell have a lot. But right now a lot of this is potential, not actual sales. We all hear this being the "Year of the Linux Desktop" (as was last year, as next year probably will be...).
I can see an IT revolution occurring in the next 3-5 years, as all the predictions of everything being web-based either come to fruition or come to nothing, Microsoft invent ever more onerous licenses and the various KDE/Gnome/(insert desktop e
"Developers! Developers! Developers!" (Score:5, Insightful)
"...the developer community has pretty much abandoned them."
"...With the shift in focus to Linux, Novell gains a huge developer base and not just from the open source community. Commercial vendors that support their products on Linux become selling points as well."
Steve Ballmer's famous hissy fit over the trial and tribulations of keeping developers happy spoke to Microsoft's efforts to keep developers on board. Ah they're such a fickle bunch. But the move to open source seems to be a good ploy to bring onboard an entire active community.
Re:"Developers! Developers! Developers!" (Score:3, Interesting)
And it's not just developers, it's also all the back-office tech guys that have been around since Novell owned the LAN. They know how much more difficult it is supporting a lot of Windows boxes than it is a lot of Netware boxes (plus you don't need as many). So these guys a
Novell has a good name with their customers. (Score:5, Interesting)
One if these was discussed with a rather large customer (government) who was surprised and very favoribly impressed to hear that the product was based on "Novell's Linux, and Novell's implementation of
Their core infrastructure - many dozens of offices across the state - is all based on Novell, who they have a lot of confidence in. I think there's a good chance they'll be wanting the "Novell
Re:Novell has a good name with their customers. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Novell has a good name with their customers. (Score:3, Interesting)
Perent wrote: "some mexican kid...'s hobby...Deb and Ian's Unstable OS [Debian/Unstable]"
Funny? Seems more insightful.
This amateur image is probably the biggest problem with Linux in the workplace today. It's also IMHO the most valuable thing that Novell can bring to Linux. Novell having (developing/supporting/backing) a linux distro means even more to business than IBM doing peace-love-linux-graffiti-vandalism. Finally a Linux from a vendor my
Open source hero? Bah! (Score:3, Interesting)
Anywho, if anything, I see SuSE and open source being Novell's savior, although it's previous history does not seem to indicate so...With the quality and issues with Fedora/Red Hat, SuSE has a remote (remote damn it, don't you all jump my @$$ for saying there are problems with Fedora, if you don't believe me, read previous
-thewldisntenuff
Who's the #2 Linux vendor in the world? (Score:5, Funny)
You're damn right!
Who is the vendor that would face Microsoft and SCO?
(Novell!)
Can ya dig it?
Who's the vendor that won't cop out
when there're lawsuits and FUD all about?
(Novell!)
Right on.
You see this Novell is a bad mother--
(shut your mouth!)
But I'm talkin' about Novell!
(then we can dig it)
It's a complicated company
But no one understands it but Ray Noorda
(Novell!)
Depends on marketing strategy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Here in sweden most people dont even know what novell is even if most of them have been working on it, they just think its some extension to their workstation. Novell needs to get the word out to common people and not just us techies. We dont decide much nowadays (we bitch and moan but it isnt our call in the end).
Re:Depends on marketing strategy. (Score:2)
Exactly. What kind of person would willingly install a file server OS that does not have a real-time file salvage feature over an OS that _has_ had that since the early 90's?
I just can't get past that...
Re:Depends on marketing strategy. (Score:2)
I would expect and hope to see Novell finally bring the Linux world a solution like Active Directory (ugh). An integrated solu
Well, yes.... (Score:2, Informative)
Well, yes. Yes, I would. They just bought SuSE.
Owners of SuSE are second-largest Linux supplier: really, who'd have thought it? I eagerly await Slashdot's coverage of papal philosophical leanings and silvan ursine defecatory habits.
Should Novell have lost? (Score:3, Interesting)
If these would be greatly beneficial and widely adopted, it seems odd that they haven't been more aggressively developed by Novell.
If their exit from the marketplace is a blessing in disguise, then it seems almost inevitable that Novell had to find a different product line or revenue stream.
Novell hasn't really been one of the vendors that I followed (due to their poor mac compatabilities) back in the dark ages of proprietary software so I'm very open to opinions of others on these matters.
Re:Should Novell have lost? (Score:2)
Re:Should Novell have lost? (Score:2)
I don't think the suckage was really Novell's fault (more like clueless admins + zero $), but it still left a bad taste in my mouth for anything related to Novell -- especially since distributing applications per use seems like a horrible idea to me, so by extens
Re:Should Novell have lost? (Score:2)
Re:Should Novell have lost? (Score:5, Informative)
Before you write off Novell completely, consider the following:
1) I have two helpdesk staff supporting 40 locations and 500 users across the US.
2) I have no other IT support outside our headquarters.
3) I can have someone whose PC catches fire, sit down at any other PC in the building and be back up and running in 5 minutes. With no intervention.
This is why you want to distribute per user, or entitle individuals to applications. You're leveraging the fact that identity is meaningful.
4) My helpdesk can reimage any PC back to known good, off-network, in less than 30 minutes, anywhere in my company.
This is why you want ZEN in particular. It provides a cohesive link between individual, PC, and applications, and allows you to centrally manage all of them.
Spend some time doing serious network administration at a big company, and you'll probably wish for ZEN or something like it. "Automate Everything", one of the core rules of system administration.
Re:Should Novell have lost? (Score:2)
Evolution 2 seems to become all good! (Score:3, Informative)
http://codeblogs.ximian.com/blogs/evolution/
Novell - The silent giant (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Novell - The silent giant (Score:2, Flamebait)
It sucks, but it's true.
Signed,
Irrational Fanboy
Re:Novell - The silent giant (Score:2)
Still a lot of restructuring ahead (Score:5, Interesting)
Before the SuSE and Ximian acquisition, Novell was going to focus on "web services" and spent a lot of money on a merger with Cambridge Technology Partners and an acquisition of Silverstream. Now, with Ximian they get Mono as well, but I don't really see a coherent revenue stream strategy coming out of Mono/Silverstream/SuSE (yet). Novell has a staggering product list right now.
There are:
- All of the old pre-Linux products like NetWare, from when Novell's strategy was network operating systems
- All of the identity products like eDirectory from when Novell's strategy was identity management
- The ZENworks product line for desktop and server management
- Four, count 'em, four different collaboration products, all from different sources (GroupWise, NetMail, Evolution, OpenExchange)
- The KDE-based SuSE Linux and the Gnome-based Ximian Desktop
- The rebranded Silverstream app server along with Mono
It's really quite a mess, and I haven't yet seen any strategy to clean it up. Novell's company page still pitches the "One Net" vision, which is a holdover from the Eric Schmidt-as-CEO days. I'd like to see a strategy for how Novell is going to bring all this together.
I'm still a Novell stockholder and I wish Novell the best of luck, I'd just like a little more clarity about how this is all going to come together.
Re:Still a lot of restructuring ahead (Score:3, Informative)
web services is key to a linux rollout (Score:3, Interesting)
Novell needs to do the following: (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Novell must do a major marketing push to show they are heavily committed to Linux that not only is aimed at the computer-literate crowd, but also to the general public. After all, one of the reasons why IBM succeeded as a huge user of Linux was not only the over US$1 billion IBM spent to port Linux
Re:Novell needs to do the following: (Score:4, Informative)
Live down their past??? So Netware faded away. So? You still have the finest directory service in the world in eDirectory and one of the best sets of tools for desktop management in Zenworks. Novell has consistently created valuable solutions that they have sold to a very large number of very satisfied customers. After all, they still have the cleanest balance sheet in the IT industry. They didn't get that without revenue.
Please. IBM didn't pay for the port to the mainframe. A handful of developers within IBM found out that some enthusiasts within Suse were working on it and clandestinely helped them out. They got it done in less than six months. At that point, they told IBM's management, who were completely blown away. The first $1 billion IBM w spent was almost entirely on marketing. What didn't go there was spent on ramping up skills within their dev groups to port apps and OSes.
Yes, Novell has do a major marketing push. In case you haven't noticed, THEY ARE DOING JUST THAT! It takes TIME to change perceptions. Give them a year or two to get the message out and sell some support contracts, willya?
Re:Still a lot of restructuring ahead (Score:2)
Trying (Score:5, Informative)
This comprehensive Novell Linux collection includes the following on 3 DVDs (10 GB):
- SUSE Linux Professional 9.1 (Bootable Installation DVD)
- SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 8 (ISO Installation Images)
- SUSE Linux Professional 8.2 (Installation ISO images for use with Ximiam Desktop)
- Ximian Desktop 2.0 Evaluation (ISO Image)
- Red Carpet 2.0.2 Evaluation (ISO Image)
- GroupWise for Linux 6.5.1 - Server, Client & Messenger (ISO Images)
- Novell Nterprise Linux Services 1.0 (ISO Image & NLS Companion CD)
- And more...
I look forward to trying out SUSE Enterprise Server 8, as I am / was considering moving to Fedora. Sorry, if you're interested, they aren't offering it anymore. Link Here [novell.com]
Re:Trying (Score:3, Informative)
Another thing to consider... Enterprise products such as SLES and RHAS will have a 5 year supported lifecycle. That means that you'll still be able to get security patches in 5 years time. Can you say that about your current version of Fedora ?
Novell (Score:5, Informative)
Take a look at eDirectory, which is far superior to MS AD and runs on almost any OS. Identity Manager (formerly DirXML) can syncronise information across your enterprise.
Zenworks delivers applications/patches to your workstations, servers, laptops and handhelds based on who you are and what relationship you have with the company (employee, division, position, customer, business partner, etc). Furthermore, it does not care how you connect!
Adding linux to the mix gives existing Netware installations an alternative future and piggybacks off OSS - smart move. For some interesting reading have a look at Open Enterprise Server - all your favorite Novell utilities on a linux platform. I for one will be making use of this....
Re:Novell (Score:2)
Specifically, I'm referring to a project I worked on for a large insurance to get smart card auth (something Microsoft are actually fairly good at) for login working with ZenWorks, Checkpoint VPN and a number of other tools. Without going into details, it was a nightmare.
To be fair, in our case a lot of the problems were caused by a thick
Not "winning back" loyalty, but maybe winning. (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, Groupwise, Nterprise, Red Carpet Enterprise, Ximian Desktop and SuSe, in a tight package, intended to scale seamlessly all the way up and down the enterprise, all backed by a company with considerable name recognition and cash, and has been defending ground against MS for decades?
This sounds like it could be a killer combination - something that could provide a significant challenge to MS, in a relatively short time.
One thing I don't knoww about Novell - are they known to treat thier customers (or even the general market) reasonably well? I know there is an ancient SCO relationship, but not one that would indicate they support the current regime or direction over there, correct?
Re:Not "winning back" loyalty, but maybe winning. (Score:2)
Actually this is quite funny in my opinion. Back in they Digital Research's DR DOS had a rough time with Microsoft and IBM teaming up to kill it by charging $240 to put it on IBM PC's while Microsoft's DOS was being sold for $40. Novell bought Digital Research and at some later point Ray Noorda formed Caldera. He bought the rights to DR DOS for the purpose of p
Novell Visited Our LUG (Score:5, Interesting)
They seem to be pretty fired up about stuff. Their next generation product will be "Open Enterprise Server", which can run either on Netware or Linux as a base OS.
They seem very into cross-platform and compatibility, in particular with respect to authentication, single sign-on and all that.
The problem of Novell is ... (Score:5, Interesting)
They all got training
More than one of those guys earned a second home just by upgrading its customers to Windows. Why Windows? Because Microsoft forced customers into buying whole new license packs, with new software. Even customers running older versions of Windows. It were the days that we simply couldn't find enough people to install and implement upgrades. Microsoft couldn't even ship CD's, licenses and boxes fast enough. In the end we did complete conversions from blanc CD's and provided the customer with its formal material later. And crew was even worse: we sent whole groups of 'people_handy_with_computers' off to South Africa where we bought MCSE documents, just to be able to put them on jobs in Europe...
Oh, and Novell? They simply produced upgrades, even for aging versions of their OS, like 3.12 and such. Each upgrade was about $200 (or something) with which you could make your server OS millennium proof. 3.x went to 3.2 and 4.x went to 4.2. And that was it... my Novell guys just sold a handful of CD's, didn't earn a second home on bonusses, but scored a ten on customer satifaction. And the problem was that Novell informed all customers about the possibility. My guys simply didn't have the opportunity to scale 'm up from 3.x to 4.2 or even version 5.... every customer was already informed about the $200 update kit for the 3 and 4 series.
Since most salesguys don't have a heart or basically don't care about quality (it's just about the bonus), they simply advised customers to ignore the opdate: it's better switching to Windows... you see, I have a second mortgage to pay
It was terrible to see such a nice product becoming a victim of its customer loyalty, especially since the Windows customers simply didn't (and still don't) see that they are being toyed with.
And I? I left the circus in September 1999 on 'matters of principle'
Re:The problem of Novell is ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Novell was punished by its salesforce for doing exactly what its customers wanted.
I think, these days, there is a growing awareness that the cash hemmorage of maintaining a Windows environment is not the only way to run an IT department. As departments grow wiser, they'll begin looking for solutions that are more like what Novell (and Linux) has always provided and less like what Microsoft is offering. After all, isn't Novell's style of product maintenance what everyone has been clamoring f
What would make them a FOSS hero? (Score:5, Interesting)
In many sites, Exchange is the one MS product that is irreplaceable infrastructure. I know, alternatives exist, but plugging together 12 different pieces of FOSS with differing licences isn't something that a lot of IT departments are comfortable with. They'd rather live with their regularly unscheduled Exchange outages, thanks very much!
If OpenExchange was free, it would go close to being a drop-in replacement for MS Exchange. With a company the size of Novell behind it, it would be a much easier sell to those companies than plugging together a bunch of FOSS server products, most with no big vendor behind them.
Novell would get a *lot* of mind-share in these organizations, as they'd be the enablers for getting MS out of their core infrastructure once and for all. I'd bet they could leverage this mindshare when it came time to upgrade those desktops as well.
Well, Novell, what are you waiting for?
Talk to them, hear them out (Score:2)
I've recently attended a couple of Novell presentations, and also attended a free Novel Linux Salesperson training course. They aren't all that bad. At least in New Zealand, they are really making an effort. They've contacted the local LUGs, made presentations. They offer a pretty good selection of courses, and some of them free or very low price.
I've never really bled red (supported Novell) before, but I'm starting to be swayed.
So go try 'em out. Go find a local Novel
Small and Medium Business (Score:4, Interesting)
* Licencing cost are low(er) compared with rivals
* Costs due to Viri don't exist in Novell's SuSE offerings (business men know this problem first hand)
* Costs due to Spam get significantly reduced due to Novells SuSE offerings (business men know this problem)
* Security is inherently high (business men know this problem)
* Single signon and other Directory services are good for business (business men know this problem)
* OpenOffice is free and compatible (free is allways good, as long as you get support... Novell enters the stage)
* Novell removes the nerdy part of Linux and makes it business man friendly
These are not technical arguments. They would be the ones I would use to convice any owner of a small or medium business to use Novell's products in an upgrade cycle (from win95, from Oracle 8, from IE5 etc.).
In the Novell development center... (Score:2, Funny)
SuSE guy: No, GNOME is crap, KDE is the focus.
Ximian guy: KDE is kbloated!!!!!!!!
SuSE guy: STFU dwarf!
Ximian guy: STFU you nazi german!
Microsoft guy (only watching): Round 1! Fight!
Caveat ! (Score:3, Insightful)
loc. cit. [redherring.com]: "If Linux is free, why's it so expensive?"
Good point. Think about it. Think if the system as it works really is a s free as intended.
CC.
Novell and IBM, sitting in a tree (Score:5, Informative)
Novell has realized that the OS the server runs is largely irrelevant to the users - they just care about the SERVICES the server provides. Migrating away from NetwareOS to an OS that supports 64 bit platforms allows Novell to break through the 4G barrier.
So, what do you want from your file server? Massive RAM, MASSIVE DISK I/O and even more massive network I/O. Reliability. Fault tolerance. Expandability. Hot-swap EVERYTHING.
Now, name a vender of server iron that meets those specs. I know of a little company that can do that - so little they only need three letters for their name. A company who's middle name literally IS "business".
Imagine what would happen if Novell made Netware services available on the IBM zSeries or iSeries. Now you have a platform that supports massive quantities of FAST disks, smart disk I/O subsystems, smart network subsystems. A system that can sense a failing disk and phone home - you come to work in the morning and an IBM tech is waiting at the door with a replacement disk before the disk fails, swaps it out in a minute, and you users never notice.
A system where if you find yourself a little light on CPU, a phone call fixes the problem. A system where you can run multiple virtual servers as needed. You want database? Run DB2, either on the Linux image or under OS400/OS390.
A Novell/IBM teamup would be SCARY compelling for IT managers world-wide.
Now, I don't have any insider information, but I cannot beleive that this is NOT being worked upon in Deep Dark Places at Novell and IBM.
Re:Novell and IBM, sitting in a tree (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Novell and IBM, sitting in a tree (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally, I've thought for some time that the behind-the-scenes plotting is really over the desktop. Like you said, no one cares what their servers are running, so long as they can access the services they want from the desktop. But more than that, no one cares what their DESKTOP is running, so long as they can access the services they want and they have the applications they need.
One of the threats to Linux on the desktop is, ok, you make the Ximian Exchange connector, but MS can change the Exchange server and make the connector stop working. You can make Samba improve desktop access to a Win2K network, but when Windows Server 200? comes, they can change the SMB protocol a little and force Samba to play catch-up. So, IBM and Novell work together to make the switch-over from Windows2K networks to Novell-based networks nearly trivial. They then work together to make the Desktop switch to Linux nearly trivial, which should be easier if you control the servers.
But why would IBM want Linux on the desktop so badly? Because once Linux is on the desktop, switching to a PPC based architecture is nearly trivial. If IBM wants to be a player in the Desktop processor market, essentially taking on Intel with the equivalent to the G5, they need to go through Microsoft to get support. Unless, that is, people are running Linux, which already has support for PowerPC.
It's a bit of a conspiracy theory, with absolutely nothing to back it up, but I have a hard time believing that no one at IBM has realized the possibility.
Excuse me? (Score:5, Informative)
In the server room 30 feet from my desk I have 21 servers. 3 of them are running Novell Netware 6, the rest of them varying flavors of NT Server, 2K server and 2K3. There's a reason I'm running 3 large office buildings worth of users on only 3 Netware servers - because that's all I NEED to do it. If you look out there you might say "Well, Microsoft has 18 server installations to Novell's 3. Microsoft is winning." You'd be wrong.
Re:Excuse me? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Excuse me? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, except, how many licenses did you have to buy? Who's really winning?
Now all Novell needs to do is deliver. (Score:2)
Re:Now all Novell needs to do is deliver. (Score:3, Interesting)
Huh? If you don't see any difference between suse 9.0 and suse 9.1, you're not looking.
Suse 9.0 was a nice distro, one I could have lived with, but I stuck with redhat (and fedora). When 9.1 came out, it was so good I simply had to switch to suse - and have been doing so, on my desktops, and servers.
BTW netcraft shows that in the past month, redhat has lost web server market share and suse, the 2nd distro, has gained ground. I exp
Groupwise for Linux? (Score:2)
I'm looking forward to trying out GroupWise. I was always a fan of it and a Linux based version could bring a good groupware solution to the SOHO market.
Novell Has What Linux Needs (Score:3, Insightful)
NDS.
You remember, the nice directory service they brought out for Windows years ahead of Active Directory? MS simply vaporware pre-announced that AD would be coming and that spelt the death knell for NDS because anyone with a lot of Windows boxes wanted to make sure they had a "compatible solution" and the only way to guarantee that was to source from a sole supplier that already had them by the short hairs.
Meanwhile, enterprise Linux could use some improvements in convenient, secure, scalable directory services. People testing prototype desktop Linux solutions want to move beyond the /etc/passwd and local home directory stage of life.
As it stands, people managing Linux LANs limp along using NIS, maybe some cobbled together pieces of LDAP with PAM and kerberos.
There's room for an enterprise level solution that could better support Linux LANs in corporate environments that would also play well with Windows boxes needing services.
The NDS code base could be combined with Samba and other open source technologies to provide just that.
The Real Key (Score:2, Insightful)
Gee, Great. (Score:2)
Uhh.. (Score:2)
Novell as Open Source Hero....what you overlook. (Score:3, Interesting)
Novell 'has been a hero' years ago when they came to a settlement in the USL vs BSDI lawsuit, freeing the BSD source tree for anyone to use. The settlement had little to do with 'sticking a finger in Microsoft's eye', whereas Linux support today is all about the eye gouging.
What would be interesting is a 'map' of the managers from back then to now. The points that are common may be the allies.
Additional points to someone who adds a 'map' of the Canopy Group to search for 'common' points - what with their formation of the Linux company Caldera who bought out SCO then renamed themselves to SCO.
Networking... (Score:3, Funny)
WTF - SUSE Desktop Registration (Score:3, Informative)
"Registration is required for the free download of SUSE LINUX 9.1 Personal. You will also be asked to complete a very brief survey."
No thanks, Novell. I think I'll grab my copy here [linuxiso.org].
How long can the keep it up? (Score:5, Insightful)
Admittedly, YaST is a MUCH better installer than it used to be, and it is fine as a system configuration tool as well, but there are just so many little things that dont work right, and too many issues in the release cycle that are just plain annoying. BUT they are definitely getting better. I would almost dismiss most of my beef with them as integration pains as Novell takes the reins.
Oh well, more power to them, I wish them well. We need more major linux players in the distro field (and no, Debian doesnt count, as it is not an enterprise OS).
What linux needs, is a few more Red Hats or SuSEs in the enterprise OS market. Make competition between Distros increase and we will get better underlying OSs, even better development and innovation than we have now, more hardware vendors will start creating drivers, or releasing specs so that OSS developers can create drivers, more companies will take up Linux as their OS of choice, and so on and so forth.
Right now we have a good start, but we really need more to get the momentum going. I would love to see another major player in the field, it would make MS sweat just that much more
In the Shade (Score:4, Funny)
Good on ya, Novell, for attempting to jump into the middle of things, but you need to focus first on revamping your marketing and business strategy departments; otherwise, you would not have lost so much ground in the server room. Realize your excellent assests but don't rely on them; understand your business but don't count on it; acknowledge your competitors but don't give them slack. Take those things to court on this Linux deal and you might have a shot. Good luck.
Re:SUSE (Score:5, Insightful)
What worries me is that acquisitions tend to have lots of problems. I myself was working in a
I would really hate it if Red Hat becomes the undisputed champion of open source. I do not hate Red Hat, but I dislike "undisputed champions".
Re:Some years ago... (Score:2, Informative)