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The Almighty Buck Software Linux

Is Linux Improving Life Of Poor In India? 256

Posted by timothy from the depends-who-you-ask dept.
mood6 writes "Linux Journal has a nice article on Automating Government with e-Governance. It discusses Linux usage by the Indian government to improve the lives of the rural poor (interesting look at how the IT boom in India is benefiting the poor). The article covers some of the difficulties in deploying Linux in non-English languages for government usage. Good read for those looking at Linux in e-Governance projects and a good follow up to a previous article by Tom Adelstein. In support of full disclosure: I wrote the article and the platform was developed by Delixus, my current company."
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Is Linux Improving Life Of Poor In India? More

Is Linux Improving Life Of Poor In India?

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  • And yet... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:48AM (#9193101)
    Gandhi was swept into office, until she declined it, by the poor who felt left out of the economic boom. One of these observations disagrees with the other.

    If linux has been helping the poor, it wasn't very much in their eyes.

    • Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AgntOrnge ( 718563 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @07:46AM (#9194292)
      I would have to guess the poor don't even know what or have never even heard of Linux. If I were living in abject poverty I think I'd be more concerned with putting food on the table or having a roof over my head than realzing the benefits of some silly computer.
      • I can't believe that people still keep moderating this stuff as 'insightful!' When oh when is the Slashdot crew going to get it into their heads that the western world isn't the only place where a middle class exists? Sheesh!

    • Re:And yet... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by The Cydonian ( 603441 )
      Let's just that's mostly bullshit peddled particularly by the international media which apparently wants to see just about everything in terms of the so-called globalisation debate.

      Let's face facts:- the Indian electorate had already voted for the reforms policy and, if you will e-governance in the 1999 elections. Even a cursory analysis [yahoo.com] of the voting pattern would in fact show that these results were less of a poor-versus-rich vote, and more of a get-that-fat-cat-politician-out-he's-taken-enough- bribes-

  • Prime Minister (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MulluskO ( 305219 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:50AM (#9193113) Journal
    Although Ghandi has refused the position, I heard that one of the main reasons the previous prime minister of India was so unpredictably ousted was because the rural constituents felt marginalized by his focus on developing high-tech industry while regular industries and agriculture were suffering. I think there's a luddite streak running through the Indian poor that was previously unnoticed.

    • Re:Prime Minister (Score:5, Insightful)

      by the-build-chicken ( 644253 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:57AM (#9193131)
      I don't know whether wanting to be able to eat makes you a luddite?
      • What the hell are you talking about? Most of the rural poor are farmers and have enough to eat what they do not have is enough to sell because their plots of land are extremely small. Like most third world/developing nations the problem is switching over from farming to industry or the service sector. Yes you might find someone going hungry but they will be in the cities not the rural areas.
    • I doubt it's so much a luddite streak as much as it's a "I haven't eaten in 2 days" streak.

      Agriculture is easily understood by the impoverished, and it has tangible benefits in the short term (i.e., more food). While it won't allow for long term growth, it does fill an immediate need.

      • Incorrect (Score:3, Insightful)

        by tehanu ( 682528 )
        Actually on the contrary. A lot of developing nations, I think in particular in Africa and S. America are (trying) to use agriculture to boost the long-term standard of living in their country. The reason why it doesn't work very well is not because of something inherent in IT over agriculture but because the rich countries (big culprits being US, EU and Japan) have huge farm and fishery subsidies whilst they are willing to outsource IT with abandon (as many unemployed Slashdotters know). However a recen

    • Re:Prime Minister (Score:5, Informative)

      by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:08AM (#9193181) Homepage Journal
      Nice theory you've got, but the reason for the election result has little to do with technology. The old government, apart from being Hindu nationalist, was obsessed with macroeconomic growth parameters (GDP, Foreign investment etc) with the result that wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few and the poor became poorer. To top it off, their main electoral campaign was called "India shining" in which they showcased their economic "achievements" which the rural folk felt was of no relevance to them. On the other hand, the opposing party promised free power, water etc. As a result the right wing parties received a sound thrashing.

      I know people who've worked to bring technology to villages in India, and its my opinion that its helped the country a lot.

      • Re:Prime Minister (Score:2, Informative)

        by Gopal.V ( 532678 )
        Ha, you forget that both NDA and Congress alliances are both Right Front parties ... Though CPM did wipe out Cong in places like Kerala (which is ruled by Congress , but which failed to get even a single seat)... Coming from Kerala, I think it's a BAD THING (TM) for a state gov to be not represented in the centre.
    • developing high-tech industry while regular industries and agriculture were suffering

      Ohio's Governor Bob Taft may have tried such a thing, too, but the voters of Ohio threw a monkey wrench into his plans. I can hardly call resistance to outright wealth concentration being a "luddite streak". Investment of public funds in high-tech while letting the rural areas languish is nothing but class warfare. This is what really happened in Ohio; if this is what really happened in India, then the Indian people m

  • Linux isn't all that common (Score:5, Informative)

    by bobhagopian ( 681765 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:53AM (#9193118)
    On a recent trip to India, I could not help but notice that not a single computer I encountered was running Linux, despite all the hype (and I saw hundreds of computers). They were all running pirated copies of Windows 95 and 98. When you have the ability to pirate software (without any real fear of prosecution), there's one less incentive to switch to free (as in $0, not as in freedom) software. Usability isn't a real concern to those at the lowest socioeconomic levels; what matters is the mere existence of computer technology.
    • I'll second that.
      What I also noticed that in the internet cafes the 'solution' to a crappy connection that kept dropping out was to right-click the desktop and choose 'Refresh' from the menu a couple of times then try again.
      Fuck knows what the Linux equivalent to this would be. Dead chicken waving?

    • Re:Linux isn't all that common (Score:5, Interesting)

      by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:11AM (#9193189) Homepage Journal
      I wonder where you looked? Linux is very common in universities here. I know for a fact that in the last year a large number of businesses, both IT and otherwise, have been switching employees to linux. Linux usage is definitely higher here than in the U.S.

      • Re:Linux isn't all that common (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        In Sri Lanka (similar conditions to India, bit richer, slower growth, much more even distribution of wealth) everyone uses pirated windows on the desktop.

        Linux is becoming increasingly common on corporate and academic servers and I have recently (in the lst few months) noticed job ads asking for Linux experience and ads for Linux courses for the first time.
    • Could you define "recent"? The not-running-Linux part I can understand....usage of Linux is still pretty low here in India...but Windows 95 and 98? Please...In the past year or so, I must have seen maybe 5 machines running Windows 98, and none at all running 95...this includes two companies I've worked with, and about 500 computers at the campus where I'm studying (including students' personal computers, not just lab computers)...

      Btw, on campus, not a single person is running on Linux....quite a few dual-b
      • Recent meaning less than one year ago. I suspect that arvindn's comments on the ubiquity of Linux are accurate of academia and some other technical settings, but let's not forget that 99% of the Indian population is neither academic nor technical. Once you distance yourselves from the universities, Linux disappears.

    • Re:Linux isn't all that common (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @03:07AM (#9193388)
      I'm a US born Indian, so I have a good idea of what both US and Indian cultures are like. I'm also an Engineer, so I know a fair number of technical people in both countries.

      Recently, I spent four months touring India, top to bottom, east to west. I can tell you that the *VAST MAJORITY* of people there use pirated copies of MS software.

      Most of the people I encountered, even people in "IT" programs at colleges, were only aware of MS products. Most had not a clue what Linux or FreeBSD were. When I installed Mozilla on their machines they didn't even know web browsers other than IE existed...they though that MS invented the web browser. Exceptions to this ignorance were those at the absolute premier educational institutes and some in industry but by percentage it was very very *very* small.

      Also, I think the parent is wrong on one point, usability is actually a big factor. After all, when you install Linux and something doesn't work, the majority of us spend time on-line searching for answers (i.e. why does LILO give me "LI"?).

      If a dial-up connection isn't available (or even reliable) how do you troubleshoot? How do you download kernel sources or even 1 - 2MB packages on unreliable software-based 56k modems that connect at 21.6 kbps?

      The reality is that most people there are fine with a half-assed Win98SE based installation. Most home users, even those of affluence with fast P4s, don't realize all the different things PCs can be used for. For them e-mail, simple word processing and older DOS games are the extent to which they use it.

      And as for Linux helping farmers, I have to cry nonsense. Much of time I spent was in vasty rural areas (agricultural villages where a lot of my family is) and I can tell you finding someone with a good telephone connection is rare let alone someone with even a 286 PC...

      • I am an American with three Indian families for neighbors. They have all recently moved here to work in Tech (software) industry. Most have not heard of Linux. One wife works for Oracle, and uses Windows, Linux, and Sun servers interchangeably.

    • Re:Linux isn't all that common (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Ba3r ( 720309 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @05:14AM (#9193723)
      This is very true.

      I was in India in the fall of 2002, and I remember buying a full version of warez'd Windows XP, Office XP, and a host of other warez programs on cd on the streets of Bombay. For 150 rupees a cd (about 3 dollars, and i probably overpaid!).

      The most amusing part was that the clearly pirated cds had 'copyright 2002' writen on them. There is almost no visible copyright enforcement in India that i have noticed, and the very notion of it does not seem to be very prevalent in Indian culture. For an example of this, i have found that many c# articles have been plagarized, usually following a scheme of 1 western author to n Indian authors. I am not implying that the majority of Indian developers disregard copyrights, but in my experience a disproportionate minority do

  • In many poor... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Phidoux ( 705500 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:55AM (#9193125) Homepage
    ... and developing countries Linux offers a viable alternative to commercial software (Read Microsoft). Linux offers a wonderful opportunity to provide services in many cash strapped communities and is really helping to bridge the "digital divide".

    The company I work for has recently started a program of donating old PCs to schools in various parts of our country. Of course the schools (Who can't afford to buy hardware) can't afford the licensing fees on commercial software, so Linux (And many other open source products) is filling the gap and providing working systems for teaching and learning.

  • this is a complicated question (Score:5, Insightful)

    by v1x ( 528604 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:57AM (#9193132) Homepage
    The outcomes of the latest election were interpreted by the political experts as an outright rejection of the notion that the country's newly-found strength in IT had benefitted the rural poor. In the light of this, it would seem unlikely that any one technology (not just Linux) would have had a noticeable improvement in their lives. Then again, perception and reality can sometimes be two completely opposite things, so one can never be sure of that either.

  • Who knows? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by j3ll0 ( 777603 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:58AM (#9193135)
    He holds an MBA in Information Technology and a BA in Economics and frequently speaks on the topics of Linux and offshore outsourcing.

    and here is the root of the problem... Economists always seek commoditization and Linux is a very difficult product to commoditize. The very breadth of Linux, and cornucopia of environments\applications that the term refers to makes it a very difficult thing to quantify.

    Also, note that the trend of outsourcing is pretty much technology independent, and recognizes that the people are the expensive part of the equation.

    In short, I guess the answer is "Well, maybe, but that's not Linux's fault... ;)"

    and I can't wait to see how the slashbots reconcile an outsourcing expert talking up Linux :D

    • Re:Who knows? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Soko ( 17987 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:40AM (#9193302) Homepage
      I beg to differ with your "Linux is a very difficult product to commoditize" statement. Linux is turning operating systems into a commodity - the tool is cheap, it's the expertise to use that particular tool that's pricey.

      As with any tool, you have to take the good with the bad. Linux cannot choose sides - as this post [slashdot.org] points out, Linux is just software - it itself has no moral compass.

      Too, which side of the equation you on seems to define the morality - if you're someone who made out like a bandit in the .com era and are now struggling, outsourcing is bad. If you're a poor farmer in India whose child just turned the educaion that you paid for with the sweat of your brow into a steady, paying job, outsourcing is good.

      I've been affected by outsourcing myself - the job I held was "terminated" since the whole department was picked up and moved to a cheaper part of the country. Different story, same effect - I was out of a job for a year, and took a lower paying position to feed my family.

      Anyone "talking up Linux" is good, IMHO - even my former employers. As you said, it's not Linux's fault. It's just market forces in action.

      Soko

      • Re:Who knows? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by j3ll0 ( 777603 )
        Perhaps I didn't express my sentiment very well...

        Linux IS a very difficult product to commoditize. Shall we install Debian, Suse, Redhat, Slackware, Gentoo, LFS or someother distro? What's the difference between the distros? How do I know I'm picking the right one?

        Compare and contrast with for example the Microsoft way of doing things (and this is not an MS advocacy). There is Windows 2003 server. Want a File and Print box? W2K3. Want a Web Server? W2K3. Want a SQL server? W2K3 + one clearly defined addo
        • Linux IS a very difficult product to commoditize. Shall we install Debian, Suse, Redhat, Slackware, Gentoo, LFS or someother distro? What's the difference between the distros? How do I know I'm picking the right one?
          [...]
          It's for this very reason that when I evangelize, I push FreeBSD.

          Ah... so why not NetBSD or OpenBSD or BSDI? How do you know you're picking the right one?

        • That's like saying the swiss army knife is difficult to commoditize because it can't make its mind up about what kind of tool it is.

        • Re:Who knows? (Score:4, Informative)

          by Minna Kirai ( 624281 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @09:59AM (#9195323)
          MS has a commoditized product,

          You seem to have no idea what "commoditize" means. By definition, MS's products are non-commodities, because only one entity supplies them to the market. With commodities, the large number of sellers means none of them has power to choose prices.

          In a non-commodity market, raising the price you charge a small amount will cause a small reduction in sales, which could either increase or decrease net revenue. But if you're selling a commodity, then a small price increase will cause a large (or even total) drop in sales (think about what you'd do if one fuel station is $0.1 more than the others).

          Linux distros are actual commodities, and that poses revenue problems for the companies that work on them. SUSE Linux, for example, is available not only from Novell, but also from any random guy who declares himself a "Linux Support Contractor". So the Linux distro itself can only ever have a low price- the corporations' sales depend on the perception that they bundle superior additional services.

          Please note that your argument about the variety of possible distros does somewhat support the idea that Linux is not a commodity- but each particular Linux distro is a commodity of it's own kind.
    • Economists always seek commoditization and Linux is a very difficult product to commoditize.

      Um, I thoguht that Linux was (part of) the comoditization of operating systems - ie it is part of the trend of operating systems becoming a widely available, cheap commodity; and that what Microsoft, Apple et all are trying to do in the market is decomoditization, ie trying to give people the idea, rightely or wrongly, that their product is different to other operating systems, much like Coca-Cola is regarded as di

  • Yes... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by syousef ( 465911 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @01:59AM (#9193141) Journal
    ...but only because the only way things can go for the poor of India is up. When you're poor and live in a 3rd world country it basically doesn't take much to make your life a little better. (note: this does not mean good). Free software means reduced administration costs for any organisation/government trying to help these people.

    All other things being equal:

    Poor + something good for free = still poor but a little better off.

    The Indian "IT boom" is at least partly the result of outsourcing and paying coders a hell of a lot less money than they should be earning given the effort they're putting in. Thing is if you're scratching in the dirt trying to find a feed, you just aren't in a position to turn work down no matter how bad. So yeah their life is improved from poverty to slavery. They won't starve but they sure as hell aren't free to prosper.

    Just so I'm clear I'm in favour of the use of free (as in beer) software in a poor country, just not in favour of outsourcing (which is what I attribute India's IT boom to).

    • Hardware? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by d4v3v1l ( 728709 )
      What good is free Software without the Hardware to go with it? Or the Internet access to seriously get to use it?
      Btw, in any case you rarely find a bought copy of windows in those parts...

    • Re:Yes... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:33AM (#9193273) Homepage Journal
      Sorry, your theory about the Indian IT boom is mostly nonsense.

      The cost of living is 8 times lower here in India than in the U.S. What would be an underpaid job in the U.S is a princely salary in India. Programmers are among the highest paid professions in India. So your opinion that Indian IT workers are exploited is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

      Of course, if you say that offshore outsourcing is unfair to American IT workers I won't debate you on that. But please try to get it into your head that there are no IT sweatshops in India. IT has in fact made millions of workers filthy rich.

      • Re:Yes... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Gopal.V ( 532678 )
        Of course, if you say that offshore outsourcing is unfair to American IT workers I won't debate you on that. But please try to get it into your head that there are no IT sweatshops in India. IT has in fact made millions of workers filthy rich.

        Maybe you should come and work where I do ... It has made a few tens of thousand workers filthy rich ... The "millenium" generation of graduates are seeing the effect of undercut prices and salaries by outsourcing companies. IF you're in a service company in India

      • Re:Yes... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ashayh ( 636057 )
        IT has in fact made millions of workers filthy rich.
        Filthy rich ? Definitely not. Comfortable or better than before ? Sure.
        And millions ? Last time I check the Indian IT industry dosent even directly employ a million people.
    • The Indian "IT boom" is at least partly the result of outsourcing and paying coders a hell of a lot less money than they should be earning given the effort they're putting in. Thing is if you're scratching in the dirt trying to find a feed, you just aren't in a position to turn work down no matter how bad. So yeah their life is improved from poverty to slavery. They won't starve but they sure as hell aren't free to prosper.

      You're an idiot and don't know what the hell you're talking about.

      So, you think t

  • Questionable... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KRYnosemg33 ( 709857 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:00AM (#9193143)
    "A major business value provided by Linux to governments is freedom from outside influence by a foreign corporation, namely Microsoft."

    That sounds great, but how is Delixus not trying to place themself in a similar position to Microsoft? Delixus is still trying to make a profit even if the OS is free. They claim Linux provides the ability to change vendors ... sure so does Microsoft. But everyone knows once any organization choses a software system (*cough* Delixus' e-Governance *cough*), they rarely change. This is not a Linux thing, it's a business thing.

    "The Delixus e-Governance Platform uses a Web-based user interface to allow applicants to access the e-Governance application from any Internet cafe"

    Again, this is great, but the article says near the top how pension offices were so far away from villages. Are internet cafes closer to villages than pension offices? Uhh...

  • please OMG (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ckwop ( 707653 ) * on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:01AM (#9193147) Homepage
    I'm not trolling.. I'm not a troll (look at my history to see that) but seriously..

    LINUX IS JUST SOFTWARE.

    It will not:

    1.) Feed the hungry.
    2.) Bring world peace.
    3.) Become a viable renewable power source.

    It's just free software.. and that's a good thing.. :D

    Simon.
    • LINUX IS JUST SOFTWARE.

      Really? I thought Linux was the most Free and most popular viable alternative to Microsoft operating systems. I also thought it was the virtual centerpiece of the Free Software Movement, which intends nothing short of making all distributed code Free code. I also thought it epitomizes a shift in software production and distribution that will destroy Microsoft one glorious day.

      Am I wrong about that? I might be overstating the intent of the Free Software community, and I might be
    • LINUX IS JUST SOFTWARE

      FREE SOFTWARE IS A PHILOSOPHY , NOT A PRODUCT

      Software is a huge drain on India's forex gains , If India does not buy cart loads of MS licenses from the US (paying out hard earned $$$) , that money can be utilized for better things than buying a new learjet for you know who.

      Slowly Free Software is bringing economic equilibrium in the world of software ... and it is not negligible . PERIOD.

      That said , India's defence system is starting to use Free Software for the pure saf

    • Re:please OMG (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Peldor ( 639336 )

      LINUX IS JUST SOFTWARE.

      It will not:

      1.) Feed the hungry.
      2.) Bring world peace.
      3.) Become a viable renewable power source.

      What's really ironic is that so many Linux advocates don't get that, but Bill Gates does. He's ripped into interviewers many times for asking ridiculous questions on how computers (& Windows) are going to help third world countries provide for the masses.

      Food, clothing, & shelter come before Linux, OpenOffice, & cheap Internet.

  • improving? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by js3 ( 319268 )
    how is some piece of software going to improve your life if you're poor. It can improve your life if you're rich though
    • old computers + internet + linux = cheap learning.

      The more educated you are, the more likely you are to have a higher quality of living.

      That's one example anyways.
    • It's a two-pronged attack:

      1) Dudes provide free software
      2) Somehow, according to Bill Gates, free hardware comes about

      Also speech and handwriting recognition will somehow happen (probably from MS, that'd be good). We'll be using basically free but not actually free tablet pc-thingies. Bill has forseen it.

      Cheers
      Stor

  • pseudo analysts on slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:06AM (#9193173)
    Ok how are slshdotters supposed to know what's right for India? Frankly I dont give a damn about what slashdot thinks is right for India. We Indians know what's right for India. All the posts about "give them food & medicine first" that's all stupidness.

    I'm going to go offtopic here, cause it's somewhat relevant plus I need to rant:

    And all the faux intellectuals you see on TV, half of whom have never stepped on Indian soil, make me laugh as they try to analyze the Ghandi win. All this sudden chatter of the "negelcted poor" etc. this is all BS speech. The media's TV analysts have absolutely no clue how and why the poor in India votes.

    The media has twisted Congress party to look to the outside world like they are anti market economy when in fact the opposite is true. Anyone who sees the election outcome in India as a leftward shift away from economic reforms has no clue what their talking about.

    This win for congress has NOTHING to do with economics. The reforms were initiated in full force by Congress party. Everyone knows this.

    India's economic reforms are on track and will remain so.

    • So, you're a slashdotter, and an Indian (so you assert, albeit anonymously). You're commenting on this. Why do you think others in Slashdot's readership can't be equally (or better) qualified?

      I'm not Indian myself, and I don't pretend to know what's best for India either, but I'm sure that Slahdot's readership includes plenty of Indians and expatriate Indians who do have worthwhile things to share.

      I think I'll stop now, because I'm starting to foam at the mouth... :-)

    • The media has twisted Congress party to look to the outside world like they are anti market economy when in fact the opposite is true. Anyone who sees the election outcome in India as a leftward shift away from economic reforms has no clue what their talking about.
      I don't care if you're from outerspace. If you're going to say that the newly elected liberal party is some-how not liberal, you better have a source.
      If you don't you're just text on my screen.
  • Anyone know anything about this distro?
    What makes it different? what it was built off? etc etc??

  • Article is a bit misleading... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LordSah ( 185088 ) * on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:12AM (#9193197)
    The Delixus website is quite scant on information on eGovernance. See here [delixus.com]. It mentions that eGovernance runs on Windows as well as Linux. With that in mind, the article only boils down to the same benefits of Linux mentioned everywhere else. (Whether the specific benefits mentioned are actual or merely popular perceptions is often debated). I could easily see someone writing a similar Windows-version of the article, quoting the merits of Windows and saying "Windows is Helping the Poor Folk in India".

    I think the article would've been better spent on what eGovernance really is, and why it benefits poor people. I'd find it more interesting, anyway.

  • L10n issues (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:19AM (#9193225)
    One of the major scoring points for Linux in the e-gov scene in India in local language. Indic language support in GNOME/KDE/Mozilla/OpenOffice.org is improving rapidly - sometimes the Open Source developers are there even before M$. For an idea on the l10n scene in India - take a look at this newsletter [indlinux.org].

    However, one of the major bottlenecks of implementing Linux in rural areas is the power situation. People have tried a number of interesting stuff - solar power, manure power and whatnot - but these things can push up costs astronomically.

    Moreover, there is a lack of trained professionals who can handle Linux systems - finding people to handle highly customised LTSP or kiosk based installations can be a real PITA. Support becomes a major headache - as people are not at all familar with troubleshooting through the command line. However, things are slowly improving - some states are introducing Linux courses in the school curriculum as apparent from this post [gmane.org].

    Some idea about the Linux scene in India can be guaged from the interviews at this [ilug-cal.org] site.
    • I'm sorry, but I'll have to call bullshit on this.

      (As I apparently never tire of pointing this out), but if you compare out-of-the-box Indic implementations in MS Windows XP Prof and Linux, Windows wins hands down. I install a 10 MB dll called Uniscribe, and presto, I can simply type in my mother tongue Telugu (as also Devnagari, Tamil, Kannada, Gujarati and Gurmukhi). Linux, otoh, would obviously need significantly more effort to get it to up-to-speed with Win XP; spent some two hours recently installing

  • Yup, definitely (Score:4, Interesting)

    by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:20AM (#9193228) Homepage Journal
    The IT boom has definitely helped all sections of society. Small companies greatly benefit from pervasive telecommunications, infrastructure that they couldn't have dreamed of a few years ago. Lots of villages (this is second hand info, I've never been to one) have an "internet hub" where farmers, take the help of an operator to learn about modern methods of agriculture, or compare prices in their locality to get the best prices etc.

    • Re:Yup, definitely (Score:2, Insightful)

      by melgeroth ( 726004 )
      Sure it helps, but the question is to what degree. I could also assert that selling my bubble gum for fifty cents less than before has helped the average man pay his taxes, and that would be true. Not having any experience with India I can't speak to disclaim this article, but just because something is 'helpful' doesnt make it necessary, relevant, or worthy of publicity stunts by affiliated news organisations.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Linux, but this kind of article makes the FOSS movement look a lit

  • No. Your outsourced job is. (Score:5, Funny)

    by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @02:39AM (#9193300) Journal
    DEY TOOK ERR JAHBS!

  • The answer is No (Score:5, Insightful)

    by romit_icarus ( 613431 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @03:12AM (#9193405) Journal
    Indians have more immediate needs, water and electricity (pani aur bijli), before they can seek the benefits of e-governance.

    That's the reason why Chandrababu Naidu, a sophisticated and technology-aggressive politician, got the boot.

    Good basic governance comes before e-governance.

  • Read the book "Sorcerer's Apprentice" by Tahir Shah, Trashotron.com [trashotron.com] for a revealing look into India's culture. From this account's viewpoint Linux would be of very little use to a large portion of India's population. It could be used perhaps to support the rail transportation sector though.

  • Here is a radical idea (Score:5, Insightful)

    by logicnazi ( 169418 ) <gerdes@inv[ ]ant.org ['ari' in gap]> on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @04:14AM (#9193549) Homepage
    Improve the lives of indians by letting them have jobs!!

    Yes, this means not discriminating against them because they aren't US citizens. An indian citizen is no less deserving than someone in the USA of a high standard of living. If we are really concerned about the livelihoods of our fellow humans (and not some bizarre ideology where american lives are worth more than indian lives) this means abandoning all these silly 'buy american' campaigns or protesting when IT companies outsource.
    • I understand your point, and would like to see the lives of the poor around the world improve. But I think one reason people who do care about global proverty might be pro American worker, is they have a voice, and a vote in the working standards of those workers.

      Will offshored jobs help the global poor? Or will a select few profit from desperately poor people, and will this destroy a sensitive, local economy?

      'Progress' often moves more slowly than we'd like.

  • No it hasn't (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think a more pertinent question is "have the computers made any difference to India's poor" and guess the answer again would be no. However, it is hoped they will make some difference say 10-15 yrs down the line.

    Linux won't make an impact on India's poor for a long time after comps have. The main reason is that there is hardly anyone who buys software in India. I don't know ANYONE who ever bought an XP cd, and I am not a loner. :)

    Another point is that for the poor uninitiated people, linux in its presen
    • From the article:
      The Delixus e-Governance Platform addresses the needs of millions of rural poor citizens in India who receive widow or pension checks through services provided by local government offices.
      Sure it's not helping the poor? Don't you think the question of Joe Average using linux is a tad irrelevant to the article posted? The article is about software used by the Indian _government_, not the Indian consumer. If the government uses it, the people benefit.

  • India's poor and IT (Score:4, Informative)

    by opos ( 681974 ) on Wednesday May 19, 2004 @08:11AM (#9194508) Homepage
    Ten years ago, I taught at the Indian Institute of Technology - Madras, and met Prof. Kalyana Krishnan. At that time Krishnan was struggling with how to render characters on a web page so that he would produce Hindi, Tamil, etc web pages. Over the years, Krishnan's project has expanded, now has voice rendering of web pages and was recently recognized as a major innovation benefiting many in India. His project website [iitm.ac.in] will give you an idea of the tools he and his students are bringing to all of India. e-Governance is a small segment of the challenges facing India. Skilled practitioners, coming from the IITs in India are effectively penetrating the digital divide.
  • Even though India has huge rural population, its "minority" middle class is comparable in size to that of the USA, because its overall population is so large. So when you are in the suburbs and better off cities, you are going to see a lot that reminds of US life. Ditto for China.
  • .. today said it would improve the quality of life in India.

    This is the first time I've heard complete bullshit from anyhting Open Source. I guess it's true... Linux has come of age. It's become a marketing fantasy.

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