


Rome Moving to Linux 231
fmstasi writes "La Repubblica, one of the main Italian newspapers, reports shortly about an interview (in Italian) with Mariella Gramaglia, Communication Councillor at the Municipality of Rome. They are planning to start soon trying Linux on the desktop: 'The first tests will concern e-mail, address book software and sharing systems', she says. The Councillor also says that motivations are political rather than economic: 'In the short term, the money saved on license will have to be spent on training'. It seems that there haven't been any reaction yet from Microsoft: 'At Microsoft they know how much we esteem them', she says; 'for example, they are sponsoring a campaign to spread the use of computers among the elderly. And we'll keep on cooperating with them on other projects'. Maybe Microsoft also appreciates that there is (yet) no project of migrating all the clients? The Municipality has about 9,500 clients, so an eventual migration project would be slightly smaller than the one taking place in Munich."
I can't wait for the day (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:3, Funny)
And they'll be in Washington because Microsoft sued them under Sherman A-T.
But the judge will say: 'It wasn't them kept you out of their markets - it was your inferior software!'
And then we'll all have a party. Again.
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:5, Funny)
Good. I'm glad you remembered that Rome wasn't ported in a day.
Does this mean... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:3, Funny)
Grizzled old MS vets will pine for the days when people really knew how to get inside the registry, and writing a good VBScript wasn't a foreign concept.
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I can't wait for the day (Score:5, Insightful)
On a corporate level, if Linux is up to the task, and the myriad costs associated with Windows are more than the costs of switching and retraining on Linux, well... maybe I'm just dreaming.
Does anyone else think MS's future position seems less certain than ever?
Let's do an analysis (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's look the reasons not to switch to Linux:
If you look at all these problems, you can sum them all up into a single problem:
Linux isn't very well established on the desktop yet
But with every migration, this problems becomes smaller. With every migration more software is ported. With every migration, more people gain Linux knowledge and mindshare. With every migration others can just "copy" them with much less risks.
One niche after another, Windows will go and Linux will come. The 3d-modelling world already has switched to Linux on the desktop. Now it seems that government desktops are next.
And as I already said: With every migration, reasons not to switch to Linux diminish, so the whole thing snowballs until Linux dominates the niche (and in the long run all computing).
So I expect that a few pioneers like Munich and maybe one or 2 other big cities go from WinNT4 to Linux. When Windows 2000 is discontinued (IIRC about 2006 or 2007) a lot more will migrate to Linux and will be able to do so much faster because you can easier avoid mistakes when it has been done before and of course because lots of software is already ported. Then after Windows XP is killed (2010?), I'd expect the majority of government desktops to run Linux.
Re:Let's do an analysis (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, they could if they didn't have such moneypits as MSN, WinCE, Stinger and XBox, but they do and somebody has to pay for all that.
Remember that this is all just the beginning. So Thailand gets huge discounts, not just for the government, but for everybody. And all this because they started a very successful Linux programme. Munich got the chance for huge discounts but they declined. (What message is that? "Even at only 10% of the normal price, Windows isn't worth it")
How long until other countries start Linux programmes? It's a win-win situation, either you run Linux or you get huge discounts from Redmond, you can't lose.
I doubt that Microsoft's tactics can work. Currently they are encouraging everybody to start Linux programs and evaluations by offering hefty discounts to them while ripping off their loyal customers.
It will take years and probably longer than a decade, but in the end Windows and MS Office (not Microsoft, they have enough money to survive virtually forever) is doomed.
Re:Let's do an analysis (Score:3, Insightful)
It's like the PC-platform with many vendors but common standards.
If the only choice is Linux, then the OSS community will have become exactly what it is they purport to be against today.
It's irrelevant who is against what. Windows is doomed, it doesn't matter if you or anybody else is against or for "choice". I just laid down what will happen. It's basic market forces at work.
Personally, I want *choice*. If I choose not to run Linux for some reas
Next thing you know, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Next thing you know, (Score:5, Informative)
Keep in mind folks, that it's a fine line we dance between Funny and Offtopic, because clearly, posted stories are serious things, and to have humor demands that there be something in the statement that is outside the expected line of discussion.
Re:Next thing you know, (Score:3, Funny)
Trying or Doing? (Score:5, Interesting)
The subject would suggest that it has been chosen to switch to Linux, but as we can see they are just going to be 'trying it'. How many people have 'tried' switching and given up under pressure from Micro$oft?
Re:Trying or Doing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh yes, especially as we all know that Microsoft is cooperating closely with the Italian Mafia. Duh.
Might it be that a lot of people/organizations switch back or abort migration projects because they find out that Linux is not the right thing for them (yet) ?
Re:Trying or Doing? (Score:5, Funny)
> telnet www.mafia.it 80
Trying 212.78.66.135...
Connected to www.mafia.it.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD / HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:53:50 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) (Red-Hat/Linux)
Last-Modified: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:41:36 GMT
ETag: "18094-5e-3e8b04b0"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 94
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Connection closed by foreign host.
Re:Trying or Doing? (Score:3, Funny)
For some reason, that message seems more ominous in that context.
Mod Parent Up! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mod Parent Down (Score:3, Insightful)
That might well be true, if they had actually tried using something else. It's always amazed me how people will just refuse to even consider anything else than MS Office/Windows/IE/Outlook. If a menu is a different colour, it's a showstopper.
Re:Mod Parent Down (Score:2)
Re:Mod Parent Up! (Score:2)
Then, the only reason to use Windows and the only thing Windows can do better than Linux is: Run Win32 software. That's it.
When the needed software is available on both Linux and Windows, there is no reason to use Windows anymore. Just look at the 3d-modelling sector, as soon as Maya and the other tools were available for Linux, almost all studios switched to Li
Insert standard joke (Score:5, Funny)
(Sorry.)
Re:Insert standard joke (Score:5, Funny)
[caesar@router:/root]# ping -c II CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV
PING CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV (CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV) from CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.XVII : LVI(LXXXIV) bytes of data.
LXIV bytes from CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV: icmp_seq=I ttl=CCLIV time=I ms
LXIV bytes from CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV: icmp_seq=II ttl=CCLIV time=I ms
--- CXCII.CLVIII.CCLIV.CCLIV ping statistics ---
II packets transmitted, II received, no loss, time MVIIms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = I/I/I/none ms
Maximus Linus (Score:2, Funny)
Gatesius: Would you, Quintus? Would I?
Rome Moving to Linux? (Score:5, Funny)
Hopefully we can shift London to where Rome was before and finally get some decent weather.
Angling for free training (Score:5, Insightful)
Rome GA uses Linux (Score:5, Funny)
It's a fact that things that piss us off, we do not like to continue to use. And well, you know how Italians are... Sorry Microsoft; better them use a different product than yours, than them holding a Godfather-shootout in your HQ in Redmond.
Re:Rome GA uses Linux (Score:5, Funny)
As much as I really like Linux and would like to see Rome using it, I think I'd still rather see a Mafia shootout in Redmond.
How long? (Score:5, Interesting)
The US government forgoing M$ would surely be the death knell of Micro$haft W1nbl0ws.
Re:How long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Typically the US Government is behind the rest of the world in adoption of this kind of tech. So, I would say give it 5 to 10 years after the rest of the world starts to make a serious move towards it. That 5 to 10 years would hold with how they are with other tech programs.
Re:How long? (Score:5, Interesting)
The biggest problem with Linux on the desktop and for local projects is that most branches of the military get huge enterprise licenses. For example when I was doing work with the Air Force we used Oracle because we could call a number and get a free license for Oracle, now I am working at an Army base we use MS-SQL server because I can call a number and get a free license for MS-SQL server.
Sigh, I do miss my Oracle database it was far easier to provide the solutions the users needed.
Re:How long? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How long? (Score:5, Insightful)
However on Groklaw a military man wrote a short piece on how the military loves Linux.
So I suppose those areas that need customizability or security over the unwashed masses ability to use it will some sort of *nix.
Re:How long? (Score:5, Funny)
Probably some time after they notice how much they're saving by using metric measures. I'm amazed that the US actually has a decimal currency -- with the conservative attitudes they have to these things I'd expect they'd still be using pieces of eight (though that's what "two bits" refers to).
Re:How long? (Score:5, Interesting)
Many federal agencies are required by law to use metric units in procurement and grants, and the meter is by law "the preferred system of weight and measures" for US trade and commerce.
Re:How long? (Score:4, Insightful)
Can you..... (Score:5, Funny)
"The Common one of Rome ahead slowly towards Linux"
Can you move from M$ to Linux and still kiss M$ ass in the same article??? For the first time I really noticed it in an article.
So that means... (Score:4, Funny)
Are you Corn Fed? [ebay.com]
Re:So that means... (Score:2)
Why should us registered users care how much the Anonymous Cowards spend?
When in Rome (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:When in Rome (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:When in Rome (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is this surprising? Most users use a computer as a toaster, and mostly by rote. Imagine if tommorrow morning your toaster has a new lever on it labelled "PBT 1.0". What is PBT? It is Perfect Brown Toast. But did you KNOW that?
Most users are afraid of this thing called a computer. Here on
But to the normal user, a new icon is a terrifying thing. "OH MY GOD, IT IS DIFFERENT!" is a standard reaction.
Re:When in Rome (Score:2)
Well, I'd hover my finger over the button for a second or two.
Perhaps the question should be (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems like you're training them that if, when an icon appears on the desktop, that rather than just getting on and dealing with it, if they react with confusion and mass hysteria, they get a day off from their regular job for cushy training.
Rich
Re:Perhaps the question should be (Score:2)
Re:When in Rome (Score:3, Insightful)
Consider: everyone needs to be trained to use a toilet.
Re:When in Rome (Score:5, Interesting)
-Steve Jobs
(OK it was actually Bruce Ediger that said that, but Steve Jobs sounds better)
In that case... (Score:3, Funny)
Kjella
Re:When in Rome (Score:3, Interesting)
You have no idea how many people find WinZIP and Windows explorer to be "Hard" to use.
Re:When in Rome (Score:2, Informative)
My flat mate usually uses Windows in Internet Cafes. When I gave her a login on my Slackware laptop (with almost every menu option gone and a simple "web" and "e-mail" set of icons) she didn't notice what operating system she was using, she's not even sure what an operating system is. She could browse the web and look at her PDF application form.
She did like the penguin themed desktop though.
Re:When in Rome (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:When in Rome (Score:2)
Dummies.com Search [dummies.com]: Your search for "linux" returned : 26 books
Re:When in Rome (Score:2)
Have you tried helping new computer users on Windows?
Well ofcourse (Score:5, Funny)
New Linux motto (Score:3, Funny)
We've got two, here is a third one... (Score:2)
Way to go Pope (Score:5, Funny)
Tux's new motto (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Tux's new motto (Score:2)
Re:Tux's new motto (Score:4, Insightful)
Another entity using Tux as a bargaining chip (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems to me the City is playing the "we're trying out Linux" card in as a means to publicly complain about Microsoft.
At Microsoft they know how much we esteem them.
Riiiiight. They "esteem them" enough to tell the media they are trying something else.
This has been a tactic tried and true by other customers - it gets Redmond back to the bargaining table, to knock thier bid down a few euros, just as long as they send Tux away.
Like Italians with women (Score:3, Interesting)
They tell the women they are with how much they love and adore them while they are working a deal with some other woman.
'political reasons' (Score:2)
I guess it's because I was just reading about Gibson's The Passion (which the Vatican seems to like, despite it being horrifically violent), and seeing this happen would be really quite funny.
politics and religion... (Score:2)
Speaking of confusion, why are all people getting upset about the violence in Gibson's movie when the whole Hollywood cinema industry glorifies violence in so many other movies?
Is it the specific context in which the violence occurs? My recolllection is that this part of the Bible deals with a lot of violence, including horrific methods of killing people...
OT religious rant (Score:2)
Also, in my personal opinion, the manner in which the suffering is portrayed may be off. As awful as Jesus suffered, if we think back in ancient history on all the different travesties of torture and cruelty infl
A great success story of Linux on the desktop... (Score:5, Interesting)
More time should be spent on understanding how they did it and why they have had such good results. The move has been an incredible success with copies of Linex (the debian-based distribution they created) being given away when you buy the newspaper.
And schools have transitioned to it. The key, I believe, was localization. They switch the name of openwriter to "Cervantes", the famous Spanish writer, author of Don Quijote. They did the same for all of the applications and streamlined the installation to a process that makes it dead easy for anybody to install it.
Finally, the government is subsidizing the use of linux in rural areas for first-time computer buyers by paying for a chuck of a linux-compatible computer.
So why isn't this being talked about is the greatest mistery to me. Linux is on thousands of government, school and private desktops today. And it works!
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:3, Informative)
I'm mildly curious, but the merely curious are lazy. Certainly I'm not sufficiently interested to sift through all the press releases and mailing list posts to actually find more than the first [wired.com] couple [glo.org] of nuggets of digestible information.
If you already know something about the project, you are much better placed than I to do a little background research. Go for
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:2)
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally think that it's a much better example of adoption of OSS; Extremadura is actually using the freedoms that RMS goes on about to change the things they don't find right about the software, rather than treating the software as proprietary software sold on reasonable terms. But this won't be interesting to the newspapers until somebody in Madrid notices that Extremadura has better IT on a smaller budget.
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:3, Funny)
They switch the name of openwriter to "Cervantes", the famous Spanish writer, author of Don Quijote. They did the same for all of the applications and
I don't know about you, but I'd find it quite confusing if every application was named "Cervantes".
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.linex.org
And the distribution is actually very decent. I have also seen it widely used in schools.
Re:A great success story of Linux on the desktop.. (Score:5, Informative)
In fact, the success of LinEx [linex.org] is being so great that it inspired other spanish communities, so that in Andalucia they've got Guadalinex [guadalinex.org]. In Malaga, Andalucia, there was recently an Open Source World conference [opensource...erence.com]. There, about 5000 copies were distributed. Further 100.000 copies of Guadalinex will de distributed [guadalinex.org] in 2004. Free software is alive and well in Spain [libroblanco.com], thank you :) We didn't get the press because Ballmer didn't visit us to offer 90% discounts.
Not just another "migration" story (Score:4, Insightful)
After reading the article, those involved are being quite realistic about this test. They are investigating changes for political reasons, but they also expect long term monetary savings.
From the article: (emphasis mine)
This is good for the viability of Linux on the desktop. Object studies of using Linux for desktop machines will highlight weaknesses that can be addressed.
the_crowbarHey! (Score:4, Funny)
In other news... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Massive deployments of Linux desktops (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Massive deployments of Linux desktops (Score:5, Informative)
Very interesting.
uh oh (Score:4, Funny)
Unfortunately... (Score:4, Funny)
To bad its not the City not the Church (Score:5, Funny)
Re:To bad its not the City not the Church (Score:2)
The Vatican will never go for it... (Score:3, Funny)
my inner voice (Score:3, Funny)
Did anybody else find themselves reading the article like they were practicing for a role on the Soprano's?
I didn't do it on purpose, but halfway through the article I thought to myself "Self, why are we reading with this ridiculous accent?" Crazy, huh?
Updated version of an old joke (Score:5, Funny)
The good news, he tells the Pontiff, is that the Vatican has received an email from God himself!
The bad news is that they've traced the IP address to an ISP in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Not the Vatican... (Score:3, Funny)
Et tu Roma (Score:3, Funny)
Ciao bella! (Score:3, Insightful)
And to help the Italians communicate.... (Score:4, Funny)
E-mail and address book software (Score:2)
It seems to me that they are setting themselves up for disappointment, or they want to get MS to give them a discount on Ex
Re:E-mail and address book software (Score:3, Interesting)
Better to fall at the first hurdle than spend a fortune on getting over every other little problem and find the final hurdle is insurmountable. Exchange migration (including keeping all the existing emails, calendar entries etc) is distinctly Non-Trivial.
If they can find (or write their own) system which Just Works as an alternative to Exchange then not only will they find the path to migraton that much clearer, but if they release it migr
Yet more barbarian invaders from north of the Alps (Score:2, Funny)
No big deal: in Rome, they're used to this.
I can't resist (Score:2, Funny)
You may now groan.
Sounds like a lot of work (Score:3, Funny)
Deano says (Score:2, Funny)
Arividerci Microsoft...
2394 later: Rome saved again by birds ! (Score:2, Interesting)
In 2004 AD, Rome shall be saved from the invasion of the Borg by another type of birds: PENGUINS!
Re:Does switching to Free Software save us money? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh dear. Looks like it might be quite easy to 0wn the pope, then.
OTOH, the Vatican observatory use Suns. But then it's run by Jesuits, not directly by the Vatican.