Knoppix Tips and Tricks

cosog writes "Robert Storey writes in a thorough review about Knoppix: 'Some people even take a Knoppix disk with them when they go shopping for a new computer, a clever way to ensure that the hardware will be Linux compatible before you purchase it.' His article discusses things like: booting, rescuing, installing on HDD, tips'n'tricks, etc... A nice read for everyone interested in Linux (and Knoppix in particular ;)."

I used knoppix at bestbuy

[mfchater]

I used a knoppix cd at best buy when looking for a new laptop. The salesman told me that I would not be able to run a linux distro on the toshiba Satelite p25-s607. I was happy to find out upon inserting the cd that I could indeed run linux. This was approx 3 months ago and the salesman said they wouldn't have drivers out for the video card for 6 months, of course he was wrong.

Re:I used knoppix at bestbuy

[Ieshan]

Would be an interesting way to promote linux - make a dozen copies of Knoppix and slip them in Bestbuy computers, restart them.

Voila!

(smirk) Not sure the salespeople would appreciate it, though.

linux hardware test

[timmarhy]

maybe this could be a good niche distro, a linux compatablity cd which does nothing except test a pc for compatablity with linux.

Need bootable USB

[fastdecade]

(Slashdotted already?)

Well, knoppix CD is great, but with 256MB (and more?) USB keys out there, I wish more BIOS's would allow booting from USB, it'd be so nice to walk into a net cafe, pull linux out of my pocket or USB watch, and then read mail with mutt in X-Windows while surfing with my own damn bookmarks. And not having to close the last guy's chat session and assorted porn popups? Priceless.

Knoppix and a Gig of Ram

[Pyro226]

The newer (3.3 and up I think) versions of knoppix have a cool feature where the entire knoppix CD is loaded into ram. My friends computer has 1024 megs of ram, so we tried it out. It was so incredibly fast; Open Office barely took any time to load.

I don't know if his top of the line, hyperthreaded P4 had a big impact, because I don't know hard it is to decompress the cloop compression knoppix uses. But if you have a computer with a gig or more of ram you should give it a try.

Re:I used knoppix at bestbuy

[mfchater]

Actually it was a version of knoppix, knoppix std. Also, the best buy salesman wasn't happy that I was wanting to use an outside cd to boot the computer. I just told him I wasn't spending 2800.00 on a computer that couldn't do the things I needed it to do.

Re:Cool

[Afrosheen]

I've done it before with both Phlak .20 and PCLinuxOS pr4. It's pretty interesting to see what can/will boot and what absolutely refuses to. I was 'caught' doing it at Compusa and all the salespeople started gathering around. Nobody had ever seen linux being used before and was surprised at how windows-ish it was.

The kicker came when they found out it was free. I ended up giving both cds away to people that wanted to play with it at home.

I've done this before

[cyber_rigger]

and accidently (on purpose) left the Knoppix CD in machine. I love to watch people (especially the sales people) walk by and say "Cool, what's this". CD blanks are cheap enough now to do this.

Re:I used knoppix at bestbuy

[NanoGator]

"I used a knoppix cd at best buy when looking for a new laptop. The salesman told me that I would not be able to run a linux distro on the toshiba Satelite p25-s607."

Back when Pentiums first came out, I went to a Circuit City and wrote a quick little Quickbasic app that drew random lines on the screen as fast as it could. This was a test I did at home as well, just wanted to get a feel for how much faster this would be than my 486. A salesman came over and told me to get away from the computer. He thought I was up to no good.

Have times changed? Maybe... But I would urge caution when going to a computer store and booting up Knoppix, maybe go grab a salesguy and say "I'd like to do this, cool?" I imagine stores that show computers like this have had to deal with their fair share of people trying to break the system.

Re: Full text

[NanoGator]

"Most people are just awe-struck the first time they see a Knoppix CD boot. Probably the thing that blows them away is the hardware auto-detection. There is really nothing to configure - just boot the CD, and two to three minutes later you have a beautiful desktop system. This is remarkable, given the lack of standards (and lack of driver documentation) that exists in the PC world."

I ache for Linux to be this way in general. I'm a Linux newb. I get nervous mucking around with conf files. (i.e. typos, formatting, and upper/lower case...) Knoppix was the first time I booted a Linux distro and got the right video mode. I was so happy with that. It just found everything. Makes one wonder: Why even go through a lengthy install? Why not copy the disc, boot, and auto-configure? Guess I'm just frustrated after spending a VERY long time installing Redhat.

Re:it deserves the hype

[cgranade]

At college we have some poorly run lab computers (most labs were run beautifully, except this one) that had one login account for everyone on the system. Some punk changed the password, so I just popped in Knoppix and surfed the Net that way w/o losing sleep over the insolent fool. Chalk up another win for Knoppix.

Re:My Knoppix Problems

[emtilt]

OpenOffice.org was orginally called OpenOffice, but there were legal problems that forced them to add the .org because of a previously existing product with that name.

Or...

[Cowclops]

As already stated by other people, Knoppix AND dd are way more flexible than "just ghost." And the whole reason I like it is because it doesn't give a rat's ass what is actually on the drive. It doesn't care what file systems are there, and it will copy it exactly, with no "oops I copied all the files but missed something that I didn't think was important."

The first time I used ghost, I wasn't impressed. The first time I used dd I was surprised by its superiority through simplicity. Your mileage may vary, but that doesn't mean "everyone" is a moron because you don't agree.

Re:I've done this before

[Grimster]

Imagine doing this in Best Buy then hanging out in the printer section nonchalantly watching over the shelves of printer cables as they try and figure out what's wrong, of course they're gonna start by doing the main (and for many only) troubleshooting they know how, reboot the machine. Of course being on cd it'll just bootup back into your fun and the hilarity continues.

Mmmm might just have to do this the next time I get bored and want to kill a few minutes. Maybe start a database of "how long it took them to either A: fix it or B: pull the display down and take it into their service department, or C: just turn it off and leave it off" with bonus marks for the lowpaydroid blaming it on a virus.

My 6 year old son likes Knoppix, really

[MajorDick]

The timing of this article is too funny, today my son, who is 6 (almost 7) grabbed my knoppix CD thinking it was a copy (legal backup:) of I game I had just made a copy of for him for him.

He put it in and after about 30 minutes after not hearing him ask for help with his game (which he ALWAYS does) I went in to see what he was doing, I almost had a heart attack, he was clicking away on Knoppix. It scared me becuase I forgot I had knoppix burned. and I thought he had rebooted my system into linux and changed from Gnome to KDE

But the more I think about it the more I like the idea of setting him loose on a live distro, I dont have to worry about him buggering up my work system (yes I have a spare system for him but its not fast enough for most of his games)

When I first started in computers I was his age and if I made a mistake I rebooted, no OS , MS basic in Rom and a 6502 on an OSI challener (the good 'ole days may date me a bit since that comp came out in 77 and I was 7:)but I got my feet wet in assy programming then. I didnt have to ask dear old dad for any help beyond well, everything, but I didnt have to worry about bonking an OS either.

When I found him on the system he was drawing cats on gimp, bestill my little code monkey....

I prefer Clusterknopix

[twoslice]

ClusterKnoppix [bofh.be]is Knoppix on steroids. Instant OpenMosix cluster using PXE network boot for clients.

Being put off

[corian]

Some people might be put off by the word "unstable," or the word "Sid" (the name of the mentally unstable kid in the movie "Toy Story").

I suppose that I'm one of those people. To me, the strong emphasis on free software / GPL / alternatives to "big corporate entities" that seems to be a part of the Debian community seems antithetical to the idea of naming their product after DISNEY CHARACTERS. Isn't Disney _exactly_ the big evil company the oppose? Isn't Disney the one working to extend copyright indefinately, put all sorts of protections and technical blocks on DVS, &c &c?

So the name "Sid" is a Debian turnoff to me. And probably others.

As for Knoppix, I didn't find it self-configuring very well on my Latop, but I DID find the Image perfct as a way to set up and configure disc images in a VMWare virtual machine. So, the concept IS a very good one. The distribution (or at last the Desktop) seemed inclined to include quite a few things just for a "coolness" factor which didn't contribute to either usuability or functionality. Strip the whole thing down a little cleaner and meanear and you've got a really nice tool.

Re:My best experience with linux

[rossz]

The same thing happened to my wife. The hard drive in her HP laptop (zt1130) died. While waiting to get a replacement (had to wait until payday), she booted with knoppix and used a USB drive (my Laks watch) to store her desktop and bookmarks. I had hoped the experience would convince her to let me install Linux when the replacement drive arrived, but alas, she wanted WinXP. :(

Off-topic: That damn HP laptop convinced me to never buy another HP product again. The drive died when the thing was 13 months old. The manufacturer warranty on it was 3 years, but HP only covered 1 year (it was OEMed). Their offered to fix it for $269 to $649 (depending on the work required). I got rather nasty with them when I got that quote. My exact words to them in my response was, "In other words, you do not honor manufacturer's warranties (which should be 3 years), plus you try to screw your customers by charging them $269 or more to replace a $100 (retail price) hard drive. How nice."

Re:Need bootable USB

[Seth Finklestein]

If you owned a net cafe, I would assume you would have Visio, Pro Tools, and Photoshop licenses for every seat. What? That's too expensive? My solution would be to allow customers to bring in media containing software which they have properly acquired. Once their session is done, you simply use a trusted program like dd or an untrusted program like Ghost to safely restore the original image.

Of course, I wouldn't expect you to figure all that out. Hire me as a consultant, or I will boycott your net cafe.

Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
Will Consult for Food

Knoppix will be good when..

[Lord Bitman]

once there is a decent Koppix-builder, Knoppix will officially be the best thing ever. (I am the official judge of such things)

Imagine being able to custom-build a Knoppix CD through a simple GUI interface, allowing you to do such things as:
-Create a CD which exactly mimics the look and feel of your usual workstation- a few clicks and you can burn the CD, go on a business trip, and feel like you never left

-Create a CD which, in addition to all that knoppix normally has to offer, has a boot option which scans for a network connection, ssh-tunnels into your home computer, and opens a VNC connection- feel like you never left

-Create a CD which, though still acting like knoppix, has your own damn preferences instead of the crap Knoppix defaults to. (My browser's start-page is SLASHDOT, thank you very much!)

-Create a CD which, after inserting, will autorun a reboot in windows, format the hard drive, install knoppix (or, if a network connection exists, the latest woody), completely configure the system based on hardware auto-detection, eject the CD, then powers down. Just imagine- a no-step debian install. Don't want to drop it in accidentally, but a kickass proof of concept it would be!

-Or any other purpose:
--A CD that locates windows shares/drives and makes them available through SAMBA/NFS/FTP (no-step server for access by whatever computer needs it)
--A CD that loads all your diagnostic tools with no extra clutter
--A CD that does nothing but burn KNOPPIX CDs
--A CD that plays Quake
--A CD that shows off a pre-written product demo

Knoppix is great, but to have a CD auto-detect all hardware and then do something USEFUL with that, that would be perfect. No more hassles of "I got this great movie I want to show you, do you have the SPANKME Codec?" -- just burn a Knoppix CD set up to play the movie on boot.

I think it would be cool, Maybe even useful.

Knoppix for nonprofits?

[ir0b0t]

I ordered my copy of Knoppix after reading the last Groklaw posts. I'm excited by Knoppix's potential to liberate cash-strapped nonprofits (think rural emergency shelter) from the need to tie up scarce dollars in MS software licenses. In the context of lawyers who work for low-income persons, a compressed, bootable Linux and an open source office suite is nothing short of revolutionary. Remote, rural nonprofit-run offices with dated hardware need to be emancipated from the need to continually budget for MS upgrades every two years or so. (It would be even better if it booted from a floppy and the word processor ran prompts from the command line. Given enough time . . . . ) Heartfelt thanks to Knoppix, Debian and anyone else who worked on this in some way!

Knoppix is great

[Anonymous Coward]

for testing *nix.
But it sucks for working with NTFS drives.
Sure, it can read them.

But for working with nt/2k/xp drives, I rely on BartPE.
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

I carry both with me, as both have their uses.

Graduation...

[SharpFang]

Seems Knoppix will be the platform I'll use for defending my graduation work. My school has no decent Linux workstation classroom, and I just couldn't force myself to write all the software I need in visushit. So, Knoppix CD, floppy or USB drive with my work, the custom hardware I'm working with, and - voila!

Use DD afterall & do Comp Forensic guys know t

[ivi]

So, SQL Server lets one "hide" a relational DB in an unformatted partition... there may even be a performance advantage in doing so...

[Do computer forensic folks know the above?]

Anyway, I'd hate to wipe an old hard disk before finding that its copy (eg, made with dump & gzip)
didn't get the DB copied onto it...

Is therething that does such a job (correctly) -better- (ie more time-effectively) than DD?

Re:How geeky is that ?

[jdifool]

Hi,

don't make the zealot with me. I just denounced a blatant geeky advertising for Knoppix (hardware is supported under Linux, except some rare cases (nVidia mostly, and intel wireless) that you can check before buying your brand-new useless computer ; thus you don't have to bring your Knoppix Cd to the store), it was not to listen to some Mac brainless fans.

Again, I don't see why people are praising a "free-software" company, when it sells a minor upgrade of some FreeBSD-based OS for 139 USD. Mac users are probably the blindest geeks on earth, far before Linux users, who are far before Window$ users (yes, MS users know they use crappy software) ; they refuse to admit flaws in MacOSX, they refuse to admit the insane commercial policy of Apple, they refuse to see that Apple is propagating the Microsoft way of thinking, which is mainly ; we fuck you, dear users.
Mac is producing good software because they need to do it to survive. If they didn't Apple would have been swallowed by Gates' evil company. The situation by now is that Apple has created a niche, full of zealots (even more than the average /. reader with Linux) ; but the question is, if Apple had the situation of Microsoft, how would it be different ? IMO, it would not.

So, please, stop pissing around with your miraculous OS ; I don't care, I want a *FREE* IT world ; can you understand that ?

Regards,
jdif

Re: Full text

[Gleng]

Knoppix is great like that. Once you've booted from the cd, you can run a program to install it to the hard drive and you end up with a nice Debian based system with everything preconfigured and sorted out.

The best thing is that, because it installs straight from the Knoppix desktop, you can chat, play games and read web pages while it gets on with it. :)

Absolutely fantastic for those who are new to *nix because it gives them a chance to get used to the desktop and the apps before digging deeper and learning more about the system, which they can do whenever they're ready.

Re:Knoppix and a Gig of Ram

[pigscanfly.ca]

Its not very hard to decompress cloop images . Hell a 233 machine with 128mb ram can do a decent job (I wrote some netcaffee software to run on a specific platform , enduded using a compressed fs so that all the tools would fit on a 50mb card sized cd) .

Re:Taking it to the store???

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I view Knoppix as one hell of a way to go find a Compaq/HP or other laptop that can be supported by Linux.

I've been playing with Linux for several years now, having started with SLS floppies, but I am getting real tired of wondering what laptop to buy. Yes, I'm familiar with some of the Linux Laptop web sites, but frankly, they're a real PITA to plow through. In South Florida, there is a chain of discount stores that compete with Best Buy, Circuit City and CompUSA.I'd LOVE to be able to try Knoppix on a Compaq laptop, and possibly buy it - WITH A WARRANTY - for a decent price.

When contemplating shelling out a kilobuck or so for something, I want to try it BEFORE I buy it. I don't have that luxury with mail order, at least not in an expedient fashion.

It's only geeky to Windows users.

[IANAAC]

If you are considering running Linux on store-bought systems, this is a perfect way to find out if it will work or not.

Linux users don't have the luxury (yet) of knowing if drivers exist for specific harware (other than looking at a HCL that may or may not be current.

Knoppix & MAME!

[antdude]

How about putting MAME and a few arcade games? ;) KnoppiXMAME [freshmeat.net].

Re:Cool

[sparrow_hawk]

I did a speech on Linux for a class and used Knoppix to demonstrate -- had them put the CDs in the drive and boot themselves so they could see how easy it was, with much assurance that it wouldn't fsck the hard drive or anything like that. We didn't have DHCP, or I would have done a much more thorough demonstration, but I showed them OpenOffice.org, and the prof had a heck of a time dragging them away from Frozen Bubble. I ended up giving all the CDs away, plus burning extras for interested parties. Linux evangelism rocks. :)

Hiphip horray for Knoppix!

[naelurec]

Ways I have used knoppix..
- to backup data from bashed W2K machines to a network drive
- to scan a networks for security issues
- to test systems for Linux compatibility
- to demo linux to people
- to show off crossplatform apps
- customized as a product demo CD
- customized as a read-only server setup
- as an aid to test for hard-to-detect hardware issues
- as a boot disk to access other Linux boxes
- test for server/client configurations

Needless to say, I use Knoppix a LOT. I have created lots of Knoppix disks and promote it to anyone who has an interest in learning about or who uses Linux. I have found it to be awesome at detecting a wide variety of hardware and a great "second opinion" when troubleshooting a Windows box for hardware issues .. pop in Knoppix and see if the hardware exhibits the same problems.

I was downloading this yesterday afternoon...

[stvangel]

and didn't notice until I tried to use it this afternoon that I only got 50 meg of it. I then went to a different site and was downloading it at about 120K per second. Being the idiot that I am, I accidently got the German version. Going back to the site, I can only get 25K per second tops. The Slashdot effect at work.

Forget about building a special distro just for the 800 meg CD's out there. It's not really that much more space for something that's not "standard" in the first place. Why doesn't somebody go ahead and make a Knoppix-type distro for DVDs? Most newer machines have them and with 4.7 gig of storage space you can put pretty much everything on them. With one of these properly configured and a decent sized USB memory drive, this is all somebody really needs for a truly portable computing experience. You could fit Gnome and KDE as well as a good installer on them. Forget about making a "Live" version of a distro. With one DVD containing a live version of Linux as well as a full installation environment running on it, it's a true one-stop-shop.

Does anybody make a credit-card form factor DVD +/-R like they do with the CD-Rs? If you could fit a full Knoppix distro onto something that size that you can fit into your wallet, that'd be really useful. While CD's aren't all that big, they're inconvenient to carry around all the time "just-in-case".

It's really too bad that you can't burn a distro to a CR-RW or a DVD +/-RW and use the unused space as a worm drive of your configuration or data. You'd have to refresh the disc every so often as your available space would dwindle, but you could get around even needing a USB key-fob. Unfortunately the common disc-formats in use make this very difficult, but it's something to think about...d

Re:Knoppix

[elvisior]

sdd in my experience is much faster than dd .. and comparable to older versions of ghost in terms of speed..

http://freshmeat.net/projects/sdd/?topic_id=19%2 C1 38%2C150%2C253%2C861

DD often far faster

[billstewart]

What's this "empty space on a disk" you're talking about? :-) Maybe dump/restore has gotten faster,
and it certainly helps if you've defragged your source disk before copying, but normally copying files is slower because it's much more complex and has to bounce around the disk a lot more, while dd can just rip right along without slowing down. (As somebody else mentioned, you do want to use large blocks with dd, of course.) Norton Ghost does have some extra functionality on Windows, dealing with the !(#W(@!# Registry settings, which aren't always friendly to exact copying, but on Unixes that's a lot less of a problem.

you forgot these uses

[Anonymous Coward]

_to backup (image a harddrive) using partimage
you know cause windows messes up if you actualy use it.
-to test your memory out with the "memtest mem all" shell command
-to prove to your school computer administrator that there is reall no need to licence MS office products (Developemnt and the such)

Frig if we could show schools that there is a alternative and they actualy moved over to it development would start to be taught and windows would eventualy disapear. (wow you have no idea how good it feels to say that!)

windows licencing, crippled ware buggy OS.
you know knoppix is sid and sid being the unstable really is a joke cause beside windows XP with all the latest patches everything even tweeked up with software and settings is really considered beyond unstable compared to knoppix or heck linux in general.

-Linux is used generaly in harddrive diagnostic softwares provided by manufactorers, memtest is gotta be one of the best for testing memory .. heck its linux..

people keep telling me linux needs a kkiller app.. well gezz man have you seen MLdonkey or evolution or frig mplayer.
i don't rember mplayer sending my personal info or what I am pklaying everytime I load up to play a video.. friog MS violates your privacy daily many times a day 16 diffrent ways! good write up here http://www.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm

your software firewalls don't exactly packet sniff. blocking off some ports is not gunna keep you safe from parts ms windows wants to get through back to big brother.

When I run linux Its like you have been freed from all the crap..

when you run windows, it does not matter how fast your new harddware is it will get clogged up just using your IE browser.. before you know it you will have weird search bars questions asked to you with yes or no questions that make no sence and bang its slowed down with spyware.. if its quick don't worry you will need popup stoppers search bars and anti virus programs that will slow you down. if all that network traffic from your system from spyware (never ending war0 does not slow you down the 16 diffrent way MS violatesd your privacy daily will

People will hopefully wake up?!

Re:Knoppix

[OrangeSpyderMan]

"cp /dev/hda /dev/hdc" will do as well.

Have you ever actually used that command? Did it work? Start with man cp and see where you went wrong. I think you might want to look at commands that read the contents of a file and then try and redirect the output to another file.

Re:My 6 year old son likes Knoppix, really

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I am amazed of the advanced growth of child nowadays. My daughter is only two years old and is already traversing the menus from my linux box never miss to launch and play by herself his favorite toys potato guy, gimp, kiconedit, kpaint, and frozen bubble! Now she is doom to be one!

I love KNOPPIX(Jpn Ed.)

[oddmake]

KNOPPIX is known to Japan.
I install Japanese edition [ring.gr.jp] to hdd.
There are variant KNOPPIX,too.
KNOPPIX Edu TG(Japanese),KNOPPIX-GridComputing,KNOPPIX-RW(Rewr itable KNOPPIX) [mahorex.com] (ISO image [mahorex.com])
My friend bananan_w [slashdot.jp] also tries "PXE-bootable-NFS-root-KNOPPIX" which needs no HD drive or CD-ROM drive.
We Japanese also loves KNOPPIX!

a script to build a bootable DVD

[axxackall]

I asked same questions on Gentoo forums [gentoo.org] and I've got an impression that usually people with DVD+/-R/RW don't know how to build a bootable DVD. The problem with a bootable DVD is in its size - its image would be too big to become commonly downloadble. But if you have a Linux box in your hands then such problem doesn't exist anymore. The solution is to distribute a guiding script instead of an image. If you already have Linux with DVD authoring tools then such script, being configured and told about what settings and what applications you want on the disc, would build all desireable application packages, pre-configure the system for your desirable environment, make a proper image and burn it. Source code is more compact than binaries. And it's a high chance that you have most of needed source code on your Linux box already. So, with such a guiding script, the downloaded size can be even less than with a CD image. By the way, does any of you know any links that I can follow and gather bootable DVD advises? I may build such script by myself (as I actually need it!) and share it with the rest of us.