

Linux in the Developing World 129
Norsemann writes "Peter Spotts of the Christian Science Monitor has some very interesting things to say about the latest wave of Linux adoptions throughout Asia and beyond. He hits on some important points about not only China's role in Open Source but the 'global' role in Open Source... Perhaps the best is still yet to come." The BBC also has a nice story about Brazil using Linux in cybercafes.
Linux's best quality? (Score:5, Interesting)
OSS is the best thing in the world for those governments who might be a little suspect of U.S. commercial interests.
The other advantage is that OSS helps to close the gap between the haves and the have nots. There are those people that romanticize the developing world and think that bringing technology to them is a bad idea. Well obviously these people have never been to the developing world and the lack of technology in these places helps to keep them in the third world.
Ironically a tremendous number of people in Nepal have email access and the guesthouse I stay in in Kathmandu runs everything on Linux.
I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:5, Interesting)
Previously businesses and individuals bought their software via low-cost vendors of pirated software. This kept their cost down.
More recently, the Indonesian gov't has been crackind down on said vendors (a good thing IMO). THis is causing people to choose between paying full price for Windows or getting Linux at little or now charge. When you consider that the average worker here makes less than 20% what a worker makes in the US, the equasion is not very ballanced.
So, here comes Linux on the desktop at least here. Unfortunately, I have been less than impressed with the skill of the IT workforce here (at least one network admin I met didn't know what localhost referred to
Anyway, I think that the third world WILL drive Linux on the desktop adoption for some time to come.
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a serious non sequitor. In my 12 years of "free" public education, I never took a class that taught anything about TCP/IP.
Most computer knowledge isn't taught, it's learned.
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:3, Insightful)
That's a serious non sequitor. In my 12 years of "free" public education, I never took a class that taught anything about TCP/IP.
Most computer knowledge isn't taught, it's learned.
I have always believed that the most important thing you can learn from school (especially higher education) is the ability to learn.
Also, I am not looking at a single person, but rather a trend that I have seen.
Also bear in mind that when an ISP decides to upgrade a piece of hardware around here, sometimes we lose connectiv
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:5, Insightful)
It taught you at least to read, write and some math, which is a prerequisite for learning any technology, but you seem to be taking it for granted.
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:1)
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:2, Interesting)
It probably has as much to do with English not being their first language as anything, we English speakers don't realise just how biased towards our language and cultures the computer world is.
For instance fred@foo.ba
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:3, Interesting)
According to a professor of mine, they've tried things like this in the past, with poor results. Although I don't know about Far Eastern nations with non-latin based languages, translating the computer languages simply hindered German and French programmers. He made the point that most musical terminology is based off of Italian words and that we haven't bothered to
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:2, Interesting)
You are very unfortunate indeed, to meet such a network admin like that. But in my experience, there are plenty capable network admins here in Indonesia, especially in Bandung, Jakarta, and most big cities in Java.
Please don't make generalization from a single fact.
Re:I am in Indonesia at the moment (Score:2)
Only provided that the government officials are enlightened enough to see the benefits / not corrupt (example: at the moment many of them are selling public companies to various western companies :( / it happen to suit their agenda.
But several Indonesian government initiatives that I've witnessed so far still utilise Microsoft's solutions. So I think it's safe to say that Indonesia will continue to stick t
Re:Linux's best quality? (Score:5, Insightful)
The same economic benefits apply to rich nations as well as developing ones. However, I'd expect several orders of magnitude greater benefit.
Re:Linux's best quality? (Score:1)
Good point, but you didn't exactly qualify which side was doing the most movement toward which direction. "Bringing technology" to someone in itself is not necessarily a good thing - nuclear and chemical weapons are technologies but I don't think many people would support that bringing these technologies to everyone is a good idea.
Who will build our digital future? (Score:2, Insightful)
here's a hint, it wasn't megacorp!
megacorps just figure out how to make it for the masses...
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:5, Insightful)
here's a hint, it wasn't megacorp!
No offense, but have you ever heard of IBM? Or DEC? Or Intel? Or Texas Instruments?
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:2)
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow, you're not up on your computing history. Hint: IBM played a bit of a role in computing prior to the IBM PC.
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm aware of that, but the proliferation of the personal computer was a pretty major turning point in our digital past. Hint: Mortals were finally allowed near them.
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:2)
I think the word he was looking for was "Microsoft".
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:2, Insightful)
Ummm I think his point is that the Universities the DOD (in the states) and various research organisations had far more to do with creating our modern computer/internet world than all the mega corps put together: and of course he's right.
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:2)
Re:Who will build our digital future? (Score:3, Interesting)
I disagree. Megacorp reasearch departments and some great geeks they employed invented many of the things that make up our digital present. Of course, many came from great geeks at university labs too. But the large scale, affordable digital present could not have been achieved without the megacorps.
"The same type of people who built our digital past.."
Here I agree. The hobbyist geeks, university geeks, and megacorp geeks will continue to be the source of coo
Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, I am not actually sure we'll see the day when everybody and their mothers will run Linux as we know it.
I somehow think that, in the end, Linux will indeed be everywhere but hidden below some proprietary interfaces... Kinda like BSD-under-Aqua = OSX.
I wish I were wrong but it would still be a nice thing to see both systems coexist this way.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
Linux might be trickier to use but if it is configured properly and installed in a Cyber cafe it will be pretty simple to use. These people haven't used a computer much, if ever and so they are not used to the Windows way of doing things.
Open Source in developing countries (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:5, Insightful)
It is therefore important to make the decision people (including the government) realize that price is not the reason why free software is better, specially in schools and government-related projects. Hey, it's not even an important reason, in many cases.
They have to understand that free software is better because its quality is superior; because we get to see what's inside, so we learn more; we don't have to take anyone's word on its keeping our private data, well, private; we don't depend on a single vendor; we can even start developing our own version, based on what's available, if we want to, thus having complete control and developing our own technology.
It's just a better idea, pricing aside. If "they" believe price is the only advantage, we're on very thin ice...
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:1)
This does not hold. I can write a program that I claim to be "all that and a bag of chips" but it simply SEGVs and then GPL it and put it out for people to download. No one uses it because it's just a SEGV maker and no one cares to fix it because it really doesn't do anything. So, we have some "free" software that is junk now.
Because it is "free software", does not imply that it is superior quality to anything.
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:1)
It does give one pause, however, when you do mention how this is indeed a high price for a person in Thailand. My cousin has been putting together spare computers together from old parts and sending them over to Thailand. Perhaps I should talk about this more with him. It is interesting as to how many of the
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:2)
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:2, Informative)
Oh.. and $40 is not equivalent to several months pay to any Thai with a computer. A good meal in a half decent restaurant only costs about $5 sure...
And most people really can afford to eat.. Especially if they are considering what OS to run.
over.
r.
Re:Open Source in developing countries (Score:5, Interesting)
Open Source in developing countries-RIAA (Score:1, Insightful)
So when's this argument going to work against the RIAA/MPAA? I'm still waiting.
What's the win here? This is not because it's OSS (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What's the win here? This is not because it's O (Score:5, Funny)
Bill? Is that you?
Re:What's the win here? This is not because it's O (Score:1)
It's Steve.
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
**Sweat drops going all over the place**
Re:What's the win here? This is not because it's O (Score:1)
This is a good point. However, this usage and adoption gets our foot in the door.
Microsoft allowed rampant piracy of Windows in second- and third-world countries for the same reason: getting people used to using the operating system means that 1) people will get comfortable with it and 2) people will be less willing to switch to another alternative.
The fact that it is free is what gets us in the door; the quality is what keeps us in users' mind
Re:What's the win here? This is not because it's O (Score:2)
Doesn't that answer your question? The rest of your post is flatly contradicted by the articles, education is the Brazilian government's primary goal with its cafes and all governments mentioned intend to roll out Linux on a larger scale. People who could never afford access to computers now have it and governments are adopting OSS. What did you mean by 'win'?
Isn't this simple logic? (Score:5, Interesting)
Open Source is a good thing! (Score:5, Interesting)
For developing countries like India one of the major advantages of Open Source is the Cost factor and the general commuinity based support avilable for most Open Source platforms. Added to that the fact that things work the way they are supposed to, and you have systems running for well over 60 - 80 days without the need for a reboot / support of any nature. The end result is a winning combination all the way.
The other major advantage of investing in Open Source is that the younger generation ( who are'nt into the commercial aspects of computing as yet ) grow up and learn within a framework that encourages choice and alternatives rather than constricting you into a predesignated thought process.
In things as they stand today, we need this kind of liberty of thought and process.
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:4, Informative)
Sure this is merely anecdotal and YES, I was kicking myself that I did not extend my trip to get to Linux 2003 Bangalore (not real kosher on a honeymoon...) but nevertheless...
Similarly in KL (Malaysia). Every s/w package you could imagine for PC and Mac for a mere 10 Ringit ($4AUD) per burnt disc. All sold completely in the open. In fact the tourist brochure on KL that we picked up even mentioned the Plaza (Imbi) that is renowned for selling pirated s/w, dvds et al!
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:1)
A lot of cybercafe's that i have been to run Linux at the server end / gateway end. (if ur going to hang around the ones with 3 computers on a single dialup line... then it will be a diff story. )
On the terminal side, if you look around delhi and chandigarh, you will find that a fair number of the larger ( 15 computer + type
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:2)
All the generations from 1993 onward have been raised on pirated copies of Win 3.x right upto XP. So the inertia in adopting linux is because windows is available for free.<P>
Once indian govt. starts to come down on piracy just as US govt. , you will see a lot of adaptation of linux. This has already started to happen in schools and colleges where in past pirated s/w was the defacto standard. Now faced wit
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:3, Interesting)
Just my $0.02, but keep in mind; I am an MCSE yet I have learned more about computers in the last five years that I have used Linux than the ~12 years using DOS and Windoze.
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:2, Insightful)
It isn't necessarily about "what the MegaCorps want". Are you sure that everyone must know how a computer works in order to use one? Are you sure that they even care how the thing works? Why do PlayStations and such outsell PCs historically by orders of magnitude?
The "common" person just wants the thing to work. The thing is magic to them as far as they are concerned. Do they know how
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyway, I would agree with you under normal circumstances. Joe Consumer has no interest in what goes on underneath the hood (car, computer, whatever). However, the article (you did RTFA, right?) is about how OSS can help developing countries. My comment was derived directly from the parent posters comment - "The other major advantage of investing in Open Source is that the younger generation ( who are'nt into the commercial aspects of
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:1)
Anyway, just from recent years showing the PCs winning over the consoles, a quick web sear
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:1)
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:2)
About 6 years back I developed and setup a Cyber Cafe management system that ran 100% off Linux and Open Source tools.
I'd like to see that. Is it available on the web?
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:1)
Yep, I'd like to see that too. [ I was kinda disappointed that no link was provided, you seem'd to be gearing up to provide one, but...]
Re:Open Source is a good thing! (Score:1)
Most of it was perl scripts thrown together on a redhat machine and then replicated across to 24 other 'nodes'. The code was all too site specific to really put online for anyone else.
The Cybercafe itself was called the Login CyberCafe, at Chandigarh. The guys who ran the place shut it down a few years back and moved onto green'er pastures - they now run a call center for American companies!
Imagine a world where the big expense is hardware! (Score:5, Interesting)
Just think about that for a minute, and imagine how it would turn your world upside down: People are cheap - servers are expensive.
In this environment, stuff like Linux makes even more sense than it does in "the west".
People like TurboLinux [turbolinux.com] and Red Flag Linux [redflag-linux.com] are all over this opportunity here in China and elsewhere in the region.
Re:Imagine a world where the big expense is hardwa (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a large number of NCD terminals I bought for my side business. 20 of these run off ONE dual P-III server. now you dont have to use ncd terminals, old Pentium 100 computers work great for this.
now I can have one server act as 20 workstations AND a server. no extra cvosts per workstation, and cince I can use throw away hardware for workstations my costs are even lower. (I got the NCD terminals, a pallet of 144 of them for $20.00 at an auction.) if a terminal fails I throw it away, replace it with another and boot.. nothing to restore or set up again.
this is only possible with linux+OSS. as with windows the same thing would cost many thousands as I would need 2 more servers and 2 licenses per workstation for the OS and apps to do the same thing with the same performance.
I am selling Open source solutions based on "terminals" and linux to businesses here that the windows people can't even compete with. One Machine shop owner absolutely loves the fact that if a PC dies (rare now) nothing has to be done other than swap the workstation and the user continues to work... no call to me for a service call and having that user down for 2-3 hours. I maintain their system in a contract basis, many things I do over ssh from my home.
not only asian companies see this as a benefit, but American businesses are seeing that it's just plain stupid to use microsoft products anymore... It's just too expensive.
Re:Imagine a world where the big expense is hardwa (Score:2, Interesting)
now I can have one server act as 20 workstations AND a server. no extra cvosts per workstation, and cince I can use throw away hardware for workstations my costs are even lower. [...]
this is only possible with linux+OSS.
Wrong. This is absolutely nothing new. Time-shared servers have been around *long*, *lo
What if SCO wins? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What if SCO wins? (Score:5, Insightful)
So even if the GPL is found invalid in the USA {and it can't be - read it, it's airtight} then it still carries weight in the rest of the world. If SCO are to be believed, Linux is in the public domain anyway {and thus can never be copyrighted by anyone}. But it's quite likely that, if anything enters the public domain, it will be SCO UnixWare - either by court order, or by natural lapse of copyright what with the case having dragged on for so long.
Re:What if SCO wins? (Score:2)
Linux in Venezuela (Score:5, Interesting)
Venezuela also adopted Open Source [linuxtoday.com] in its government offices like a year ago.
I've been using Linux at home since 1995, and enjoyed every moment (even the learning, frustrating ones!); and whenever I can, I try to make my venezuelan friends become aware of GNU/Linux and Free (as in speech) Software.
Back to work!
First oficial translation of the FSF (Score:5, Informative)
But now it does. As of yesterday, this article [creativecommons.org] at creative commons talks about the very first official translation of the GPL into a language
other than English. (Full text of the CC-GPL in Brazillian Portuguese is here [creativecommons.org].)
The news I've read about it also say that there are some modifications to make the license valid according to brazillian laws, but I had no checked this so far.
Re:First oficial translation of the FSF (Score:2, Insightful)
Anyone who knows history knows where this is going (Score:2, Funny)
Just like with the oil companies, we will make sure that the third world will remain dependent upon Microsoft.
Those companies who try to switch their governments over to OSS will find themselves on the wrong side of a communications breakdown--much the same way that the mexicans were left with barrels and barrels of oil they could not give away after nationalising their oil fields.
Violently over-throwing the peaceful governments such as peru and installing our own stooges (the
Re:Anyone who knows history knows where this is go (Score:2)
I don't doubt that. However, bear in mind:
There is a HUGE difference between US national strategy regarding oil (NEED...MORE....OIL) and software (want to export more). I am sure that
And, currently, who is financing SCO? (Score:2)
Re:Anyone who knows history knows where this is go (Score:2)
However, I can't help but remember the US has invaded, set up puppets, trained and financed insurgents, and who knows what else over Bananas (I dunno, twenty times?) not to mention Gambling and Sugar (ever heard of Cuba?).
What they have is common with oil is commerce, as in commercial interests between US firms and other nations. In that respect, software is certainly not less important than fruit.
reading level (Score:5, Funny)
Finally, an article that challenges me technically.
-t
Re:reading level (Score:1, Insightful)
Dude, the Christian Science Monitor is a general interest newspaper. What's more, it is of very high quality, and extremely cheap. Even though it is published by a church, the "Christian" part is negligible (and I'm not Christian). They have a fascinating history [csmonitor.com]. You will be enlightened reading CSMonitor instead of USA today or other tabloid mass market crap.
Re:reading level (Score:2)
Is this really news? (Score:5, Informative)
While piracy is rampant, most legitimate (i.e. with international connections) seem to prefer Linux due to the prohibitive costs of the MS licensing. Of course there may be some issues when exchanging documents, but these issues are minor.
From speaking to some of the IT guys is their disbelief that we in North America still choose to spend so much money when there are low-cost options available. I guess it's why we drive SUVs and stuff our faces in all-you-can-eat buffets.
U.S. falling behind? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just sent a correction into the author... (Score:2, Flamebait)
The stripped-down version he referes to is Minix, a version of Unix written for teaching purposes. It was Minix' limitations, and the author's refusal to accept patches removing those limitations, that led to the creation of Linux. Linux had no Minix code in it.
Re:Just sent a correction into the author... (Score:1)
Holy crap, that was quick (Score:1)
Re:Just sent a correction into the author... (Score:1)
Continuing... Minix is designed to provide a UNIX-like environment. Linux is designed like UNIX to provide a UNIX-like environment. Linux is not Minix. Minix is not Unix. UNIX is not Linux.
* Unix = genetic descendant, say, BSD
* UNIX = trademarked & certified, say, Solaris
Thank you, Mr Spotts (Score:2, Interesting)
Video Games, Multimedia , Software, BRoadband.... (Score:1)
its isnt necessarily the quality of open source.. (Score:3, Interesting)
The situation in some Asian countries runs counter to this article, at least for the mass adoption of open source.
Piracy is rampant and the cost of a Windows installation is only around 50c American. Bandwidth is expensive, so downloading a Linux ISO is also prohibitively expensive, definitely more so than buying a pirate CD off the streets.
Linux distros are pre-pressed and available for sale. However, those distros are usually 3-5 disks (3 for Mandrake,5 for Suse). A Windows install, is the price of 2 disks at most. Everyone has "heard" of Windows, not many have heard of Linux. Therefore, you go with the software that you've heard of, rather than trying out new,esoteric OS and tools. That is why Linux is limited to some corporate servers and hobbyists only.
Which one is wider used ? Windows, of course. Will that change anytime soon ? Only when there is a crackdown on pirated software.
Re:its isnt necessarily the quality of open source (Score:1)
But I agree with what you say about pirating in general and I'll take the point even further. Pirated proprietary cds "compete" quite aggressively with open source everywhere. And yes, I'm
Long live OSS (Score:2)
But I'm extremely happy Linux is so eagerly adopted in the developing world.
Looking at it from their position it's easy to see why.
Having to cope with a bit of a learning curve is a small price to pay for being able to w
Re:Long live OSS (Score:2)
I think the non-corporate Linux desktop will follow the same trail DOS/Windows did: corporations will install and use them, and then employees will buy "compatible" machines for home. Even now, as the developer communit
penalties for just not paying Micro$oft? (Score:1)
What are the plenalties for a country who enforces copyright/patents from it's own country but not from others?
Who Will Build Our Digital Future? (Score:2)
Try typing "miserable failure" in Google
This isn't ment as a flame or a troll (Score:2)
WSIS story, 3rd world Linux and Xbox story related (Score:2)
MS' agenda is to dominate markets by locking customers into an asymmetric "tech providor vs tech consumer" relationship.
In short, technological hegemony -- much like the hegemonistic agenda certain elements in the US military-industrial complex are often accused of.
OSS' agenda, on the other hand, is to empower individuals, and individual nations, to make their own technological choices. So the UN advocates OSS in its WSIS, a move that is vigorously opposed by only one nation: the US.
The pattern i
Remember this one... (Score:1)
This HAS to be the best. It doesn't mention in the article, but I am sure I read these were linux powered PCs!
Re:CHRISTIAN science monitor? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:CHRISTIAN science monitor? (Score:1)
Ah, you mean an oxymoron :-) Like McDonalds Restaurant and Military Intelligence or Microsoft Security?
Re:CHRISTIAN science monitor? (Score:3, Informative)
For years the CSM was seen as one of the journalistic paradigms, favorably compared with the NYT and the Washington Post for the quality of her investigative journalism. While it has fallen off over the past 10 years, it is still and excellent news source, and very important, very fair, and exceedingly well written.