How To 'Sell' Open Source Software 490
An anonymous reader writes "Have we missed the boat in terms of selling Linux to the average Joe? The writer of this article at NewsForge certainly thinks so. He points out that most people don't yet get the idea of a free operating system, and that the best way to start winning them over is to provide free software for Windows, such as OpenOffice.org." This sentiment isn't new, but unlike a lot of commentators, the writer in this case is in a good place (as a retailer who's tried selling Linux-equipped systems) to observe the man-on-the-street reaction to Free operating systems as of 2003.
How to buy open source software... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Insightful)
They need money too.
Then again, I'm just a hypocritical bastard, as I've never bought any free software, ever.
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:3, Insightful)
How about they get something called a job? A lot of people have one, they work for someone who pays them to do so. Of course, the person that pays them to work must have a business model that doesn't involve giving away what their employees produce. If they're stupid enough to give their work away for free, I'm greedy enough to take it.
NONE of that stuff is free... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or that they should have their software, for a two-week period every six months, interrupt what your doing every few hours with modal dialog boxes that block your work until you pledge more money (as PBS and most public radio do)?
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:4, Insightful)
Selling software isn't an obsolete business model by any means. We just happen to be at a point where a monopoly has managed to continue to charge an obscene amount of money for what should basically be a commodity item.
You sound like the people who thought that the Internet presented a "whole new paradigm" and that the old business models were obsolete. Turns out they were wrong, and that eventually the dotcom boom turned into a speculative bubble.
The core of what's happening with Open Source is a response to classic market pressures. Office suite software should be dirt cheap by now, not priced at an obscene $300. Heck, it's not just Microsoft - I saw WordPerfect Office at my local Fry's for $300. What are those people smoking?
The response from the market has been to say Screw that - I'd rather write something that people can use for free than keep paying these obscene prices. (In the case of OpenOffice, Sun was also obsessed with finding a way to do some damage to Microsoft.)
The fact that you use software shows that it has some value. Money represents a convenient way of measuring that value. Many of use are willing to pay full price for a new Linux distro. Some are not, and purchase a cheap CD from a second hand retailer. Others are really really cheap and download it for free on their DSL connection. (The fact that they paid $50 a month for a DSL connection shows that the software has value, even though they are too cheap to pay directly).
If the market were running correctly, much of this commercial software would be far cheaper than it is. It wouldn't be worth the time it takes to write an Office suite. Heck, much of this software should probably already be commodity items, sold at no charge.
Open Source software won't eliminate commercial software. But it will make it painful for software companies that try to screw consumers by overpricing their products.
That's a Very Good Thing (tm).
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Interesting)
People are often too lazy to download and burn a CD, they want a "hard copy from reliable source", they may want a paper manual... or they are too used to buying software to actually understand the idea they can get it for free...
(not counting these who consider this a way to contribute or express gratitude to the open source community)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, if you can be the friendly neighborhood Linux geek, people around you may get turned on to a good OS. They may require some support, they may ask (stupid to you) questions, but that's the way it goes. You just might learn something if you're not careful.*
*stolen f
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's a Content Management project, so I'm hoping to pick an open source solution and offer the developers some cash if they give us a bill of sale.
Silly reason, but it's one that I've come across for why you might have to buy free software. Buy=product. Free software = custom development. We can buy products but we aren't alowed to develop solutions. Go figure.
PHB's want support (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Informative)
[slashdot.org]
(#6602870)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Informative)
I set up a resturant this way. Total bil with hardware and software was $2900.00 Expensive because he decided to use flat panel touchscreen LCD's at the worker stations. Now when any software get's updated, all stations are magically updated. and he still get's worried because he hasn't had to call me for any trouble for 8 months now (he used to use a windows solution.. they called the vendor for the windows setup almost monthly for dll errors, strange crashes, and needing to reboot stations almost weekly because the printers would quit.)
It's great, he's tickled that he has a spare NCD explora to replace a station if it breaks that doesnt need anything bot to be plugged in and turned on, nor do the stations EVER need to be upgraded.
Only drawback of NCD terminals, they are a tad slower on screen drawing if you use 1024X768 resolutions. but that's about it.
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a list of typical reasons:
- Convenience: If you pay $100 for an OS and the company makes sure it's available in stores and/or on a website with really good bandwidth, then you get more faster. Example? Go to Microsoft.com and download something. When my company had a 7 mbit connection, MS's site was the only one that maxed it out. That's an extreme case, though.
- Support: You can pay a support team to keep you up and running. That's been mentioned, though.
- Development: They want you to keep spending money on them, so they keep doing new things to keep you interesrted.
- Media/Packaging/Manual: Well, you don't want to download again, right? Packaging's not such a big deal, but at least you can keep track of where you can buy it should the need arise. And, face facts, Linux needs a manual. A big one.
Did I miss anything?
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How to buy open source software... (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps an MDI would work better for the Windows port (Hi Photoshop!)
Mirror (Score:3, Informative)
Wonder how... (Score:2)
For Joe Average, Windows is FREE anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:For Joe Average, Windows is FREE anyway (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:For Joe Average, Windows is FREE anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
Average Joe Opinion (for REAL) (Score:4, Insightful)
Get a job? (Score:3, Funny)
You make less than $100 a year? Wow. You've got to be pretty smart to live on that little.
You're some kind of manager and you make less than $100 per year? Wow!
Really? Then UK users are above average. (Score:3, Informative)
www.simply.co.uk
www.watford.co.uk
These and other sites is where the average user buys (not Dell or HP, those are for corporate users). These are companies advertised in Magazines of wide circulation in the UK.
In both cases the OS is charged and you save money if you don't buy it.
It is a real pity that they don't have (yet) a box with Linux on it showing an increase of 0 (or a nominally lower increase of price) when selected.
Re:But Windows is $200 retail (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But Windows is $200 retail (Score:5, Insightful)
The "average users" that I know think that WinXX is part of their computer. The concept of an operating system upgrade is beyond them. They think they buy a new computer if they want an upgraded copy of WinXX.
I'm not kidding.
Furthermore, they think MS Word and Excel and IE is part of that same "package."
Re:But Windows is $200 retail (Score:3, Interesting)
The only way to get people to use open source is to sell it with the computer.
Re:But Windows is $200 retail (Score:5, Insightful)
one thing is certain, you (and people like you) do exist. i have to deal with people like you everyday at work, and I'm really sick of it. I work at an ISP tech support center. All my coworkers call these people idiots because they don't know what a mail server is or how to activate their webspace and ftp to it. Besides the admins and maybe one other person at my job, I am the only one who knows anythign more about Linux than how to use KDE. Does that mean my coworkers and friends are idiots? Answer = no.
does a air conditioner repair (wo)man look down on you because you don't know how it works, or know anything about it, besides the very simple UI. When you want a more powerful unit, do you buy a whole new one or learn how the thing works and upgrade it yourself.
why do you look down on people because they don't know everything you know about computers. why should they, it's not essential, or even enjoyable to most. people only use them because they are convienent and ideally, more efficient.
yes there are stupid people. but people aren't stupid because they don't know anything about computers.
In conclusion, stfu.
Sincerely,
a dissatisified customer.
I post proudly, my opinion.
Re:But Windows is $200 retail (Score:5, Funny)
You mean I'm the only idiot that paid for Windows?
No wonder you posted anonymously...
Re:Linux business model (Score:3, Funny)
9. ???
10. Mod parent down
Sell to average Joe? How bout college students? (Score:5, Insightful)
In order to increase market share, these are the people who need to be sold on open-source. Currently there are not very many college students in CS or CompE that use open-source development products. In order to stay competitive, open-source must go out of its way to recruit these youngsters and give them the opportunity to try out open-source. This should happen at both the college and high school level.
This can be a real advantage to open-source as there are so many projects that these students can contribute on. It's a win-win situation. They get real-world hands on experience and open-source gets more coders and people dedicated to open-source philosophies.
Good point (Score:2)
Why dont you go to college campuses and give out Linux?
Anyway I dont thin linux is something you "sell" as a product though.
Re:Sell to average Joe? How bout college students? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sell to average Joe? How bout college students? (Score:2, Interesting)
No MS stuff so far.. I'm not sure if thats similar in Undergrad, but I suspect it might be.
This is at Macquarie University in Australia, in case you're wondering. They might be alone in this.
Re:Sell to average Joe? How bout college students? (Score:4, Interesting)
For instance, I was initiated into Linux, Emacs etc because a certain programming course required it;the lecturer developed a grade-tracking software, and didn't want to port that to Windows, so all our labs were done in Linux. We learnt all those Emacs keyboard tricks from seniors in the span of a week (before we discovered what the Vi versus Emacs flame was all about).
So yes, at least in the bigger, older universities, Linux/Unix is already an established thing with full community participation.
Amen to that! (Score:4, Informative)
Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:5, Insightful)
I have converted many friends to Mozilla and a few of them have begun to ask about linux and why I use it. The concept of open-source is very foreign to many people, but once they get a taste and see the high quality product, they become much more receptive.
This way you come off as much less "zealot-like". If they already have some experience they are more open already. GB Mozilla and their high quality products. Keep up the good work boys and girls!
Re:Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:2)
they don't know enough and would rather be able to call up microsoft when something goes wrong
Is that a US market thing? In all my days of doing IT, I've never heard of anyone getting telephone support from MicroSoft. Over here, it seems to be sales only, and "call your vendor" if you have OS troubles.
Re:Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:4, Funny)
Has anybody ever witnessed this phenomenon? I hope one day an intrepid explorer captures an actual home user calling microsoft for help and getting it. We could put it on the discovery channel right after the hunt for the giant squid.
Re:Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:3, Informative)
Even that is a myth, though (the calling up MS part). I mean, really, how many people (home users) actually call up and speak to MS at $125/incident. I specify home users, becuase I imagine that most medium and large businesses opt for contract based support. I think that in reality most poeple hit the mailing lists and d
Re:Thats what actually made me install linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Because of this, we need to hit them where it counts. While Linux may gain desktop acceptance in corporate environments where software piracy just isn't an option unless you want visits from the BSA, due to its cost, for Joe Blow's desktop it's not going to make a different where it counts.
Product quality.
Not that your average consumer knows a quality product either. He doesn't know or care about the high flip rate of his gas-guzzling SUV, as long as he's at eye level with the woman in the drive-thru window at Wendy's, nor does he realize how much the shitty new Fox reality show he's watching really sucks, because it's got reasonably attractive women that he can watch without getting yelled at by the Mrs. for watching Girls Gone Wild: Doggy Style and leaving a protein stain on the couch. What consumers want is what is most successfully marketed to them, and seems the best. This is where free software will fail, without the tremendous marketing budgets of giant corporations.
I use Opera, though -- still waiting for Mozilla Firebird to get good enough to make the switch. It takes several seconds to start up, which is a pain when I just want to click a link in an email or IM to open a link up. Opera, on the other hand, takes well under a second. Kudos.
I adore the free software model, but a lot of the software just hasn't "made it" yet. This is why I still have my XP box in addition to Mandrake 9. As inconsistent as Windows is on the developer end (every new revision has an entirely new set of methodologies you're supposed to use for stuff, as older stuff becomes deprecated, ex: MFC->ATL->WTL) it's more "complete" than desktop Linux right now.
Sell? is this what I think it is? (Score:3, Insightful)
You cannot sell open source software, you sell the service of creating the software.
IF its the other sell however, I think people DO understand the concept of open source. You have all these people using Gnutella and Kazaa who understand the concept when its applied to music, so whats so hard to understand if we simply phase this into software?
I wonder why theres no P2P Linux Operating System
The best way to sell free software is (Score:3, Insightful)
What may work is the inclusion of OOo, samba, ximian connector, and gaim to point out to users that it "works exactly like and can interoperate with" windows files and servers. Also point out its widespread distribution in the server/enterprise arena. Some apple-esque switch ads may work too for the extra-dumb people out there.
Missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Parts of the market seem to be missing the point that software such as a consumer level OS and office software have little value these days. You really can't sell them by and of themselves. Photoshop has value, maybe Access does too, but Powerpoint, Excel, and Word are just expected - kinda like a webbrowser.
Most non-geeks think of Office as Windows, and of IE as The Internet, for example. You sell Joe Punter a Computer, not Hardware + OS + Applications. The sooner little stores like this "get it" the better. If they set a demo machine up with a slick looking Gnome2 interface (no RedHat doesn't count as slick :P), OpenOffice, Moz, and Gaim, then put it beside WinXP + Office for $300(?) more, then people would buy it. Maybe it takes a certain amount of customisation that isn't in the current distros, but 30 minutes on art.gnome.org should provide a nice looking UI - and to most folks, the UI is the Computer.
Selling it to people with the "It's Free and Therefore Good" argument is pointless. Sell it with "It Works and Costs Less" and you might get somewhere.
Also, try selling SOHO networks to leverage that into places Windows Server won't go - eg, Linux Server + 3 Linxu Workstations (diskless/netbooting is even better from a TCO and upgrade viewpoint).
Re:Missing the point (Score:2)
until the OS and applications are disassociated it will always be pretty impossible to 'choose' your OS. there should be an rfc for an application file format that you need to implement in your OS. OS's should be written for applications, applications shouldn't be written for the OS.
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's an education / support issue. I'd guess 90% of Linux apps are only available online, so if they're looking in Walmart they're out of luck. Similarly for the Mac, most stores won't have titles for them either - instead, Mac users will often go to 1 or 2 stores that meet their needs.
I think the stores need to either teach users where/how to find software (eg, look on the distro CDs, or Fresh RPMs, etc) or "productize" them, and have a few rows of CDs with useful apps on them.
It actually remin
Adios, Amiga (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, it worked for you until all the commercial software companies stopped developing Amiga software because nobody bought legal copies. Then it was adios, Amiga.
Re:Missing the point (Score:2, Interesting)
They hadn't even realised it wasn't M$ Office. They said they had noticed it was different "but so is eveything else on my new computer".
They brought this particular setup because "it was the cheapest, from a reliable store".
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Insightful)
You need a little bit more than that. What so many people in this community seem to miss is that Windows training is ubiquitous. The Linux and BSD operating systems aren't going to make much headway in the consumer market until training for "UNIX System Adminstration for Personal Systems" becomes widely available. Everyone has relatives, friends and neighbo
Re:Missing the point (Score:3, Informative)
"Low cost generic" seems to get people's attention. They think about generic drugs and generic foods and they instantly understand.
OEMs (Score:2, Interesting)
Dell is neat in the sense that they offer(ed?) the option of having your server preinstalled with RedHat. Wish they had the same option for desktops and laptops... I am currently installing RH9 on my Inspiron, and can see how hard it mi
Re:OEMs (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, I agree that if we want Linux to be a big part of the desktop, it needs to come preinstalled on systems.
It's catch 22 (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, Linux is a great OS, and there is a strong developer community for drivers, but unless you are using it in a single purpose machine, ala Lindows Webstation, where you KNOW the user isn't going to try installing anything, you as the reseller in trying to save the customer money are going to have to pay more each time he calls and asks " why won't my camera install?" or "why won't my Bluetooth adaptor work with my phone?"
Unless manufacturers start supporting Linux like the way they do windows, we arn't going anywhere.
Other then that, porting traditionally Linux tools to Windows is a good idea. You get peopel used to it first then transition them to linux. so then when the switch is made, they are still comfortable with the tools they have been always using.
Re:It's catch 22 (Score:2)
Induced blindness (Score:3, Insightful)
I used to work in a college as the sysadmin. The people that hung around me (yes some did!) eventually got around to trying linux. No-one else, including many CS students for which I ran tutorials (though anyone could come to these tutorials of course) didn't care, loved their 40G monolithic WinXP partition and so on.
Another obstacle is that Mr and Mrs Average aren't hackers. They may be able to get used to apt-get or rpm rather than clicking on an icon to install a program but they probably have hassles as to why supermount is often a bad idea (what is write-ahead caching anyway?).
People realise that they don't have to buy expensive office suites and other applications - that is what cd burners are for. What they don't realise is that they don't have to pirate them either.
I think that providing GPL software for the windows platform (as much as we may shudder) is a good first step. Mr and Mrs Average get to keep their current OS but get to explore and add functionality for free. They may or may not then make the jump to linux.
Very good points (Score:5, Insightful)
If we want Open Source Software to make an impact on Joe user, we need to ease them into it. Humans don't like change. We need to feed it to them with a baby spoon a little bit at a time, and if they have questions, try to explain it to them in the simplest of terms. "Thousands of programmers around the world work in their free time to provide everyone with superior software" will lead to "Why would they do that?" because when Joe user thinks of a programmer, he thinks of a glasses wearing computer nerd in a cubicle, getting paid to write programs. He doesn't understand the fact that programmers might program for fun.
I think we need to start some kind of a campaign. The masses must join together to provide something to Joe user that won't scare him. Don't try to explain everything to them, just give them a CD and say "Here, install this, it's better than Microsoft Office", or "Here, check this new E-Mail program out, it's got a really good thing for Junk Mail". If they ask "How much does it cost?", say "It's my copy, you can have it."
Re:Very good points (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Very good points (Score:3, Insightful)
Tell them that it's free. When they ask what the catch is tell them it has to be professionally installed but you know of a trick and can do it for only a hundred dollars.
The guy will think he got a great deal because he "knows somebody" and you get a hundred bucks!.
If the guy is confused by free stuff don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. As you witnessed the guys a dolt and won't get it anyway. Just take his money and get yourself a toy.
Re:Very good points (Score:5, Insightful)
BINGO! What a lot of Linux-type-people tend to forget isn't that people equate "free" with "crap". Not at all- instead they equate it with advertisement-laden intrusionware. Think realplayer. If you could get rid of all that extra crap, it might actually be a decent piece of software. It's not necessarily that free = crap, it's that free = gimmick.
Yeah, but there's more. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I agree that this will help build mindshare. Once my wife began using Mozilla and OpenOffice on her Win98SE box, she was a bit more comfortable on my SuSE Linux 8.1 laptop. So there is something to this.
However, there is also something to having a killer app for your platform. Apple has desktop publishing locked up, and video editing a bit too (at least at the consumer level). Sure, anything the Mac can do, other systems can reproduce. Likewise, anything Linux can do, others could copy. But taking the lead in an area means people default to your system. You can see Linux doing this for high-end 3D animation, and high-end video work seems to be coming along for Linux too. And of course, the Linux server-based apps seem to really trounce Windows in a few areas. That's our "lock" and we need to do it more. Mozilla is the next thing I see -- more features than the competition, more standards, more stability, more up-to-date.
Finally, as a developer who has released a few Perl, PHP, and AppleScript apps, I find that the best way to win someone over is ease of installation. Wizards, wizards, wizards. Once past that, it's all user interface from what I can see. Is your app more intuitive? Does it expose more options in a sensible way? I have found that most things that are difficult on Linux are justified by users/developers with comments such as "this IS hard, this isn't for idiots, this is how it has to be." And then a month or a year later, another app comes out that does exactly the same thing with no feature loss or configurability loss, and it does it better. And it "outsells" the old product well. I am experiencing this right now with one of my products -- a free photo album tool called PHPortfolio. PHPix is more powerful, easier to install, and simpler to use. My app is getting trounced. But it should -- it's crufty. Happily, everything is free, so no loss other than ego. :)
'Free' Does Scare People (Score:5, Insightful)
And then explain WHY its free.. Its a hard concept to grasp for the general public. "Why are they doing that for nothing... if its so good they could make money"
The laptop I carry with FBSD helps, as does the knoppix CD I leave behind... ( used to drop off 'demolinux' CDs, but knoppix is much more advanced as a useable *safe* demo at this point )
I don't know about selling... (Score:5, Informative)
I bought a copy of SuSE linux a while back at a store. Paid about $40 or $60, got a few CDs and a couple manuals. I figured it was worth paying for the manuals and not having to download a gig and a half of ISOs... but unfortunately I was wrong.
I got it out of the box, and spent a couple hours installing it on my machine. So far so good, the installer was pretty easy to use and it went pretty fast (took maybe 30 or 40 minutes, I think.)
I booted up and was presented with a somewhat confusing login screen, and here for me is where it all went wrong - right there I had the option to choose multiple 'desktop environments' - it offered me KDE, GNOME, and a couple other options (I believe one of them was X11)... for me, this was confusing. I knew what all the environments were but I didn't particularly care to have to choose one just to use the machine. I started up KDE, since I had heard it was good. KDE started up fast, and I was able to hop in and start doing stuff. Did a little web browsing, and it worked great.
I logged onto IRC using XChat, and eventually one of my friends helped me get my windows drives mounted... unfortunately, it really wasn't pleasant having to figure out how to mount drives. I either didn't see SuSE's gui stuff for doing it, or that was a major oversight. So, SuSE lost a point there.
Then I started listening to some of my music in XMMS. Good so far, it worked great. I minimized it and started trying out the various apps that came loaded with the distro - games, productivity apps, etc. This is, IMO, where this distro (and the others I've played with, to a lesser or greater extent) failed. I was presented with multiple types of programs for almost everything, and there was very little on-screen help or guiding to help me select the best software to use. And to make things worse, some of the applications did things that I didn't expect. Selecting Wine caused my KDE desktop to dissapear and be replaced by Nautilus (the GNOME desktop, or so I'm told), and I couldn't get rid of it, so my session was now almost completely useless. I couldn't figure out how to do anything with nautilus or close it, so I had to shut down.
Then I tried to play one of the games I'd played on windows - Tux Racer. It said I needed hardware acceleration support, and here lies trouble. I fiddled with SuSE's configuration program (YAST) and could not get it to give me hardware acceleration for my Radeon 8500. It claimed to support it but wouldn't enable hardware 3d. So I went to ATI's site and grabbed their drivers. I then proceeded to try and install them. The installer messed with my configuration files, and then told me that I needed the kernel source code so I could recompile my kernel. (!) I didn't have the sources and I didn't know where to get them, so I closed the installer. Then, I opened YAST again to see if I could somehow find a way to get hardware acceleration working... and it wouldn't work. To make a long story short, somehow the combination of ATI's installer and YAST totally corrupted my XFree86 configuration to the point where even the CONSOLE would not display properly onscreen. Goodbye, linux partition.
If the companies behind these distros want to sell Linux to people and have them be satisfied customers (I have no problem supporting developers, but I wasn't happy with what I got for my money.), I think they need to work more on focus.
The average user doesn't need 3 CDs of stuff that he or she will probably never use. Include one good office suite, and make it easy to download the other ones if you ever need them - that's not hard to do! Do the same with other software... I don't think the average user needs to be confronted with multiple desktop environments, editing configuration files, and discerning the meaning of confusing application names. I know some distros are really good at being accessible, but there were only two distros at the store I visit
Re:I don't know about selling... (Score:3, Funny)
OpenOffice. Sponsored by Sun. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm getting very tired of listening to open source cheerleaders (particularly Slashdotters) talk about how much they hate Sun in one breath, and then including OpenOffice among the free software that's going to supersede Sun in the next.
Without Sun, the OpenOffice project would undoubtedly continue, but it wouldn't continue nearly as fast. Sun is confused, but I think they'll eventually come around and realize that mainstream computing will eventually come down to just Windows and Linux. (Perhaps they'll lose their schizophrenia about Linux when they fire Scott McNealy, who knows.) But we need to remember that free software doesn't just materialize out of nowhere; it has to be created and maintained by actual people. Some of the best software out there is created by hobbyists, but with something as complex as a complete office suite, it does help to have a big staff of full-time developers working on it.
I challenge you all to stop mentioning Sun in the same breath as Microsoft, and instead try to figure out better ways to achieve Sun/Linux synergy.
Re:OpenOffice. Sponsored by Sun. (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, the mostly hobby-project, KOffice, seems poised to overtake OpenOffice in the not so distant future. In my opinion, it is overall a better written collection of software--even if the MS compatiblity is currently lacking. OOo seems to me a twisted heap of code with an insane learning curve confronting possib
Use it to promote it... (Score:5, Insightful)
He very happy with my software, Mozilla, and the server. He is also happy with the overall performance and the fact that the server has not crashed. Of course I also gave him an estimate of how much everything would cost without open source. Needless to say he likes open source now. Not only does he like it, but his employees see the benefit and they learn that free doesn't mean worthless.
Even getting a small business to use open source helps a lot to promote it because every employee that uses it gets comfortable with it and has some exposure to generate marketing buzz.
A couple of success cases (Score:3, Interesting)
One, a small local bank that has 90% of what they have with some linux and Gnome. All desktop users (normally people who only need a word processor and a spreadsheet) use OpenOffice. Licencing costs = 0. This is not so easy to understand even for a business man. The guy in the IT deparment had to work his case.
The other one is swithing from MS Office to OpenOffice for every one excpet people who are really familiar (and actually use) with Excel. Every one else get's OpenOffice (on win32). This guys are saving some 10000 USD in licences. Still they had to be introduced to the subject of Free Software by one of the guys who works with me when our customer complained about the cost of Microsofts Office. This kind of "OSS consulting" for our customer, was some value added to another project we're on.
Still, I think, as people who benefit from the works of others for free, that we should encourage business users to make donations to projects they benefit from. At least to support these projects future survival.
"Have we missed the boat?" (Score:5, Insightful)
More seriously... not even my boyfriend will touch Linux, because he can't play his Windoze-only (and/or Win-and-MacOS-only) games on it. He's not willing to touch an emulator. He doesn't want to use a piece of software that makes finding user-friendly software difficult. (Sorry, to you and I, 'bash' or 'grep' is user-friendly. Not so to him.) He doesn't want to use a piece of software that is so incredibly inconsistent that there is NO ONE WAY TO SET UP A NETWORK INTERFACE. (If you're using a shell, do it this way; if you're using Red Hat 8.x or higher, do it that way; if you're running Mandrake, do it this way; if you're running Debian, hack it your damned self cuz you're "supposed" to know how, etc. etc. etc.). And so on and so on. I love Linux as much as the next geek, but we REALLY have missed the boat. Mac OS X has already done more for open-source software in the real world of Joe Sixpack than Linux (and even *BSD) will ever do, in my opinion. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel on the issue.
Joe Sixpack couldn't give a good god damn about ideology. To him, ideology is something you learn in Church or in Ethics classes, and has nothing at all to do with software (or computers in general). To him, the notion that software can be "free as in speech" sounds like a ridiculous, out-of-context anthropomorphization, like saying "My car likes it when I pet the dashboard. See? It's purring!".
And as for "free as in beer", which most OSS/FS also is? To Joe, Windows, Office, etc. are all free as a flock of birds, since you either (A) get them free with new computer, (B) can download them off of KaZaa, or (C) mooch a copy from a friend or family member.
The ONLY way that OSS/FS will ever make headways into Joe Sixpack's life is if (A) it plays all of their games (or as many equivalently good AND POPULAR games), (B) it supports ANY piece of hardware you can buy, including WinModems, WinPrinters, WinWebcams, WinDildos and WinKitchenSinks, (C) things are consistent (which probably won't happen so long as there is more than one distribution) and (D) it STILL manages to be more stable and secure than Windows.
Oh, and it has to look and act just like Windows, too, or he'll say it's "too hard". I'm serious. I've had people tell me that Mac OS (or Mac OS X) is "hard", simply because they grew up in a Windows household, and familiarity breeds a false sense of intuition.
Not to be depressive, but... well, this is your wake-up call...
Re:"Have we missed the boat?" (Score:5, Insightful)
I just happen to be one of those clueless Joe Sixpacks out there, and I completely agree with you. Ok, so I do understand the ideology behind open source; and I would like to see truly free software to take hold of the market. However, to me, my computer is primarily a tool, and secondarily a toy. I use it to make my employers happy so that they pay me money; I then invest some of that money into games. For me, the computer is not a political platform, a hobby, or a lover. I do enjoy programming various things in my free time, but I am not going to waste all day fucking with my computer just so that I can install a network card.
Currently, Windows XP makes a better tool (and a better toy) than Linux (any distro). Windows XP is consistent, it supports all my hardware, and it's reasonably easy to use. Linux is none of these things. Until Linux improves dramatically (or until Windows worsens dramatically, due to DRM), I'll stick to XP. I'm sorry, but that's the way it has to be.
Re:Good for you. (Score:3, Insightful)
In other words, you are willing to invest vast amounts of time (learning Linux, researching cards) and money (buying aforementioned cards) in order to support your political/ideological platform (informat
Re:"Have we missed the boat?" (Score:2)
User: "So have you played (XYZ game)?"
Me: "I don't run Windows."
User: "Um, then what do you run?
"I pay, I demand". (Score:2)
You can complain to user support at commercial company and they MUST respect your complains or you can get them in deep trouble. Within Free Software community you may only expect replies like this: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94035
(sorry, links to bugzilla from slashdot are disabled)
Re:"I pay, I demand". (Score:3, Interesting)
No software comes with any warrenty either expresssed or implied.
That's a pretty basic foundation for software in general, otherwise MS would be liable for damages caused by their shittying programming. As well as the geek who wrote the kernel patch that borked the file system.
There's a million and one examples of closed source
companies ignoring user complaints about bugs to outright denial that there is anything even wrong.
Re:"I pay, I demand". (Score:3, Informative)
In fact, you are better off with Free Software in this context. If an OSS developer gives you the brush-off when you ask for a bug fix, you still have the option of fixing the bug yourself ... or employing someone to do it for you. Besides, if the problem is hurting lots of other people, there is a good chance that some other user will be mo
Open-Source Distro for Windows! (Score:2)
I can see a market for retail sales as well, so it could
Re:Open-Source Distro for Windows! (Score:3, Insightful)
It's called Knoppix [knoppix.org] Just put in the CD, reboot, and there you are, a full running Linux distro, and if they get scared they can just reboot. It doesn't change anything on the machine.
I tried it awhile back, and right off it found everything, and I connected to the 'net with no hassles. I actually like it better than my current distro, mandrake.
-cp
Remember "Find a need, and fill it" ? (Score:5, Insightful)
And the observation is this: Linux on the desktop does not give current users of Microsoft products anything that makes them want to leave the Microsoft world. Even the price argument fails, because people of even moderate means will tell you that the cost of a "loaded" PC isn't prohibitive. The 68-year-old said it was too much trouble to learn a new way of doing things, particularly if it meant not having Office and IE. The DB admin said it looked interesting, but she wasn't impressed with the availability of front ends for MySQL and Postgres. And the 18-year-old asked what games were available.
Friends, we should not be looking for mass adoption. Linux on the desktop is for inquiring minds, people who want change. Most users out there just want it to be easier or faster than it presently is - - scary, considering a blindfolded monkey could operate the Windows GUI. Can we fill a need for these people? Can we make it easier, and faster?
Re:Remember "Find a need, and fill it" ? (Score:4, Insightful)
BINGO!
People want a computer to do things, they buy a PC for what they can do with it, not (like us) because of what it is.
Jo Six-pack does not want to learn how to mount disks FFS. We (/. crowd) are mechanics that love cars, Joe Six pack just wants to drive to his destination in a safe and reliable fashion, He does not care for bolting in his own seats...
Get the Salesman excited, they'll get the consumer (Score:4, Interesting)
brand names (Score:2, Interesting)
"free" is a particular failure as a word - one can tell this by the fact that it's so frequently followed by the necessary clarification ("free as in speech" or "free as in beer"). One wouldn't describe the Magna Carta or the US Declaration of Independance as a "free document", so describing software
Free as in what? (Score:3, Insightful)
If it was just a question of Apache or BSD licenses, I think people would be as quick to adopt as they are to share music files, but the GPL is a lot more scary than even Microsoft's EULA. You pray to God no programmer in your shop has tweaked something GPL in order to make a project work. It's one of those cases where you would be a lot happier if they didn't have access to the source.
Now we know why this is, Slashdot programmers want to protect their intellectual property rights from Microsoft even more than the RIAA wants to protect it's copyrights from Slashdot programmers. And that's perfectly understandable. But it makes for slow adoption. When the very act of bugfixing a GPL project on your spare time, may make some other code of yours "derivitive" of that project, you have to ask yourself if being able to see the code is a good thing or not.
So Corporations treat Open Source very carefully, and as a result people treat it very carefully at home. After all, it's very hard to trust people for whom distrust seems to be a second nature.
Taking it seriously (Score:3)
It actually depends upon how old you are and when you started using computers. I'm old enough that Microsoft wasn't supplying operating systems when I started using computers.
The first real OS I used (not counting CP/M) was 4.3BSD at the university. After four years of that, MSDOS seemed like a toy. I never considered it anything more than a program loader.
So when I first heard about Linux (0.97) and FreeBSD (1.0), I knew they weren't toys. I took them seriously. So I kept an eye on them until I was able to afford a computer that they could run on. When I finally got a computer with a drive large enough for dual booting I took the plunge with Slackware. Eventually I tried FreeBSD and was home at last with a direct descendent of the OS I started with.
If customers don't like "Free" (Score:3, Interesting)
Tell them that they can get regular updates through your company as part of the initial contract.
Does it matter that users don't understand? (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to sell customers systems with an OS that cost way too much for what they got(no not an MS product) We developed using tools that cost a hell of a lot and didn't offer much more functionality then syntax highlighting. The systems just up and crashed at times and noone could explain it.
The customers eventually got mad about the stability of the system. So we're replacing it. Linux, Mysql, php, apache and a whole lot of custom modules.
So far in testing the users are much happier, the developers are happier and the over all systems cost far less which we directly pocket as profit. The customers could care less that the system is built on free software, they just need it to work.
Does it really matter if grandma doesn't use linux at home? In the early days it didn't matter that noone used linux for anything. People still made it and now it's useful, that will never change.
No Linux Apps Where People Buy -- In Stores (Score:3, Interesting)
Take a look around a CompUSA, a Walmart, a Best Buy, an Office Depot, or Amazon, or any other franchise that sells software. You might see a few boxes of RedHat or Mandrake, but if you start looking for specific kinds of applications that run on Linux, you won't find any. (Yerah, I know Linux distros are chocked full of apps, but most people don't know that; even if they do, they'll get a confusing array of applications with overlapping functionality.)
It's all well and good to have bunches of free Linux applications available for people who know how to find them and install them. And, how to get rid of them if and when they turn out to be unsatisfactory.
That's not the case for most people. They already own Windows (or a Mac). They only need new software very occasionally, and then they can afford to pay for it. If that's the case, why dump Windows and spend hours getting up to speed on Linux just to get one free app? That's a high-risk approach.his is probably the reason for all the Mars probes launched over the last few months."
his is probably the reason for all the Mars probes launched over the last few months."
The heritage of Linux and Gnu is a double-edged sword. It enables a flowering of talent among the developer community, but it also isolates Linux from the mainstream.
But pirated MS Office software is free, too (Score:3, Informative)
So, as long as MS has businesses in their back pocket, they've got little need to worry about competing with free, as in freedom, software.
Right tool, right job (Score:4, Interesting)
We don't _want_ Joe Average using Linux (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, speaking for myself, I don't, and for a whole lot of reasons.
The first reason is that open source software is written to scratch the itches of people competent enough to write it. It must be, because people who are not competent enough to write operating systems by definition don't write operating systems; and, unless you're being paid to, you don't write programs to do things you've no interest in doing. So Linux will always be a geeks operating system, and will only ever be good as a geeks operating system, and that's how it should be.
If, in some act of self-denying humanitarian madness, the Linux community did turn round and make Linux into an operating system for Joe Average to use, we would just by doing that make it an operating system which was not comfortable for us to use, and so we'd all drift away to using something else and there would be no-one left to maintain or develop Linux.
Joe Average is inevitably going to have to continue to buy operating systems which people get paid to write, because there is no-one who is motivated to build a Joe Average Operating System ('JAOS'?) for free. Microsoft seem to perform this function perfectly well.
Of course the corporate (and government) desktop is different, because large organisations can afford to pay sysadmins to tune an operating system to the needs of the organisation, and lock it down so that the lusers can't make a mess with it. They're going to have to do this anyway whatever operating system they choose, so they might as well start with a free one.
Obviously, there's some benefit for us in Linux being more widely used. The bigger the community, the greater the number of contributers, the more software there is that's available to us. Great. But actually there's even more benefit to us in letting a thousand flowers bloom. The more heterogenous the operating systems in common everyday use, the more important interoperability is, and the less possible it is for wannabe-monopolists to 'embrace and extend', or to save files by default in proprietary formats.
So don't - don't - strive, campaign, persuade or even hope to see Linux on every desktop. It won't do us any good and it won't do Joe Average any good. Strive instead to expose Joe Average to a wider range of options he can understand. Let's face it, Mac OS X is a good operating system for Joe Average - at least as good as Windows - and once the Joe Average desktop market begins to fragment there will be more chance for new operating systems to emerge and break in there, and that can only be interesting for us.
And yes, perhaps, in future, we will see JAOSes emerging which are based on Linux; perhaps Lindows [lindows.com] is the first of those. But please, we don't want Linux to become a JAOS. That's in no-one's interest.
Speak for yourself. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why?
Because then I will find more hardware (not that I miss anything), more support (not that I need any) and more applications (I miss nothing at the moment).
And because in such situation big companie would be forced to provide a better product and service, treating us like valuable clients and not like possible copyright infringers.
The GIMP and OpenOffice: the Camel's Nose (Score:4, Informative)
Case history: I was working a short-term writing contract in a Windows-only company. The job would require editing photos, so I asked them to install the GIMP for me, pointing out that it was freely usable and the equivalent proprietary program would be about $600. I also asked them to install Open Office so I could use it for labelling photos and making drawings. The only question they asked was whether things would be in standard file formats. I think they had been burned before by proprietary formats.
Several weeks went by, and one of the assembly workers mentioned he just bought a PC for his kids, but software was REALLY expensive. I offered to give him a CD with GIMP and OO and Mozilla (and NetHack!) ... explained it's not only free but legal, and he could give copies away or install it anywhere he wants to. Within a week, a couple of others asked me if they can have "that free software", or if I knew of free software to do ___. Viral marketing was starting to infect the company.
The mechanical engineer whose office I was working in took a GIMP/OO CD, then asked about OSS engineering software to use in his engineering classes. I told him that most of the good stuff was written for Linux. He was curious, installed the distro I gave him (probably Mandrake) one weekend, and came back with one question - "what about my data?" I showed him that OO could read EXCEL and Word files ... his next statement was "So what the hell do I need Windows for?" I pointed out that his major drafting software was going to release a Linux version, and that he could ask for that upgrade instead fo the Windows one, so soon he could be totally free of Windows at work and at home.
The third to convert, although very cautiously, was the bean counter who doubled as sysadmin (very good admin, far from clueless). I had already saved him $600 with the GIMP, and the OSS for WIn CD was getting rave reviews on the factory floor, so he trusted that I knew what I was talking about. They desperately need manufacturing control and CRM software. It's extremely expensive, seldom works the way a business needs it to work, and getting it customized is more expensive if you can get them to do it at all. I suggested he look at the Compiere project as the least painful way to introduce it. It has a web-based server interface and is aimed at small businesses. It does require an $1800 Oracle run-time license, but that and the cost of customizing is way less than the cost of a proprietary system and the hardware to run it on. He could use an old PC to install Linux/Apache and test it out for free - I gave him Mandrake, RedHat and Knoppix. The last I heard, they had hired someone to install and customize Compiere for them. Everyone will be using browsers and their existing systems (Win 95/98/2K) to access it, but it's one Linux server in the door.
The key to my success was not talking vaguely about the virtues of open source operating systems ... it was handing over an OSS solution to the person's current problem.
Folks, we're going about this all wrong! (Score:3, Insightful)
Then you show them quake playing on your linux laptop and hey presto! Instant convert.
However, as a footnote, folks, linux really, really needs to become easier to install/uninstall new programs and to configure if we really want the average Joe to buy in completely...
Re:I have a question (Score:2)
Re:I have a question (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I have a question (Score:2, Flamebait)
I can see it now.. why pay $40k for a BMW when you can get a carnix for free?! oh sure, the carnix is designed and manufactured by mcdonald's workers on their spare time but it has four wheels and drives!
Well, duh (Score:5, Funny)
We sell our virile bodies on the streets. Obviously.
Re:Jesus (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Who cares (Score:4, Insightful)
The local school district, for example, spends millions on software licenses, most of it to do office work. Sure, I know MS stuff is great, but why can't they use Linux and/or OpenOffice to do their e-mail, web browsing, and office app stuff? They could take those millions and hire more teachers, or re-institute music and art programs.
It's not that everyone should use Linux, but everyone should consider if proprietary and costly software is the best place to be spending their money, especially when other options are very workable and available.
Lots of support ..... for lots of problems. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Lots of support ..... for lots of problems. (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a valid complaint. I know a number of people who switched from Red Hat to Debian over this. Of course, they're all computer literate and use standard equipment (no wireless keyboards and mice, for instance).
The Debian install is confusing for Joe Average. Han Knopper prefers to keep the Knoppix installer a "secret" feature, because it's not well-tested yet and it's a feature he is not overly concerned with.
Joe Average just wants to install it quickly. He probably doesn't even know about Debian or
Re:This article is right on! (Score:5, Interesting)
To fight fire cold water is some times the only answer. Right now if you go into a retailer the MS A+ pimple faced tech discourages you from using Linux. We all know that in reality Mandrake is really a main stream distro now and any user could easily learn it. Even MSN and AOL keyword junkies.
The battle is hardware shelf space and it always has been. If I were to open a store there would be two sections for hardware MS stuff and stuff that is Linux friendly. That way the user would very quickly see that Linux mostly runs on the good stuff, like HP lasers, and dual processor boards etc.
Another good tactic is to let them run on the net in customer user profiles, with applications like Kstars. Especially show them the great math and science tools that are already there. Leave the other part of the store to braindead gamers, and Hot Mail, but point out that Hot Mail is actually quicker on BSD or Linux running KDE.