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Linux Comes To Afghanistan 248

Posted by timothy from the start-the-needle-swinging dept.
gaurab writes "For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul. This training was supported by UNDP as a broader program to build capacity in use of computer technologies. The press release and some info is available at UNDP Afghanistan Website. It was reported on NewsForge today, and was picked up by the Washington Post few days ago. Some discussion also happend on the South Asia Mailing List."
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Linux Comes To Afghanistan More

Linux Comes To Afghanistan

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  • On how long before there's a JonKatz reference?

  • What? (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by autopr0n ( 534291 )
    What about Junis? Didn't he download it for his C64?

    /wonders if the 64 people below my threshold all made the same joke...?

    • Apperantly not (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by autopr0n ( 534291 )
      /wonders if the 64 people below my threshold all made the same joke...?

      Apparently not. I guess someone's pulled some kind of distributed crap-flooding. Interesting, although I don't really think posting a bunch score-0 posts really counts as 'pwn'ing slashdot...

    • Re:What? (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by NiceGeek ( 126629 )
      Y'know...I'm a little tired of the Junis-C64 jokes. I'm no Katz defender but the original article stated that Junis was using a Commodore computer. Commodore also made the Amiga and even the A500 was/is capable of getting on the Internet. This was a stupid joke to begin with. BTW autopr0n, I'm not flaming you specifically :)
      • Not to mention their unsuccessful, but linux capable windows/dos based PC series. The one on which they blew all the money which should have been put to better use by marketing/improving the Amiga series.

  • new record (Score:3, Funny)

    by G27 Radio ( 78394 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @01:39AM (#6440452)
    For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul. ...beating their previous record of 10 achieved in 2002.

    • Re:new record (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.

      Followed shortly by a terrorist attack by the former Taliban regime which killed 10 of the 11.

  • Afghanistan could certainly benefit from LINUX. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by banal avenger ( 585337 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @01:40AM (#6440460)
    That's interesting that the UN would pick up LINUX support. It's good, but still surprising. LINUX is a great way to start people on the right track to success, free of restrictions from the likes of Microsoft. Instead, they're only limited (freed?) by the GPL.

    At any rate, it's definitely beneficial to provide them with a low cost solution to get up-to-date in the tech world.
  • whats with all the GNAA? anyone else browesing at 0 or -1? I wondered why there were so many comments below my threshold....
  • I will take eleven of your hackers and train them in the ways of Linux. This eleven will train the thousands that remain. When the oil flow stops, all eyes will turn to Afghanistan. The Secretary of State and the President himself will be forced to deal with us. Afghanistan will become the center of the Universe.

    /I'm such a whore.

    • May I suggest that you ease a little on the intake of Afgani opium?

    • Re:So do we have to start calling them GNU/Taliban (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Richard "Muad'dib" Stallman could not be reached for comment.

    • Troll? (Score:2)

      by Zemran ( 3101 )
      I sometimes find it hard to accept that otherwise intelligent people can see a good bit of humour as a troll. I was considering writing a longer version in the same vein myself as I see a parallel between the Linux zealots and the muslim zealots. Yet people here put this down in the same light as the GNAA crap. No wonder so many resort to rubbish like that if good comment is treated in this way.
      • You're assuming that the people here are otherwise intelligent. Get used to it. Say good things about Linux and you're insightful, say something good about Windows and you're flamebaiting or trolling. Say something stupid and you're insightful. Say something funny as hell like this guy did and you're trolling. My kharma's gone from positve to bad and back to positive. Now I'm working on the bad kharma again. So easy to manipulate these people. That's about all that keeps me coming back here now.
  • I like browsing "raw and uncut" because I do want to see all that is said - I do appreciate a good troll.

    This GNAA shit is getting out of hand. Slashdot needs troll filters. Or better yet a crap flood mod that I can exclude from my browsing.

    Seriously, a good troll is art, what you dumb fucks are doing is just plain stupid.

  • Benefits of i18n (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GammaTau ( 636807 ) <jni@iki.fi> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @01:50AM (#6440489) Homepage Journal

    It was very nice to read this at the South Asia IT mailing list (the one linked in the main story).

    So.. yep,,, there's work being done. There're also KDE and GNOME development teams in Farsi, which is very close to Dari- the langugae of Afghanistan. Pashto is also similar. There was a demo of Frasi KDE while I was in Kabul and it has also generated some interests.

    Good localization is really important for the non-western world. I really respect the GNOME and KDE projects for developing open framework that allows this with reasonable effort.

    • Good localization is really important for the non-western world.

      What about learning a foreign language that's widely used as English? Nearly all software should be available in english.

      I could go nuts when I see how many ressources are wasted into translation instead of removing the annoying bugs! (btw, I am a native German speaker, not English. But I don't whine around I want everything in German!)

      Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation for the idiocy to put the text of a software somewhere else tha

      • Re:Benefits of i18n (Score:3, Insightful)

        by GammaTau ( 636807 )

        Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation for the idiocy to put the text of a software somewhere else than in a simple to replace text file than mix it between the code.

        Err, I think the GNOME and KDE projects do it exactly in the non-idiotic way. As far as I know, they can be translated by editing a simple text file. That means that people other than the actual developers can do the translation so very little developer time is wasted on that.

        By the way, translating software to your own language (if

      • Many of us live in countries not as developed as Germany. The cost to do translation is a grain of sand compared to the desert of the cost of teching English to a nation. KDE and Gnome are good for translation, but sometimes still suffer problems with 8 and 16 bit character sets.

  • Great... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Toasty16 ( 586358 )
    ...the UN teaches a handful of Afghanis some Linux and the first thing they do is swamp /. with GNAA posts. There is no limit to the wonders of technology!

  • Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hughk ( 248126 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @01:54AM (#6440500) Journal
    if they manage to get their act together. One of the good points about Former Soviet Countries was that education was relatively good. It is only in the last 10 years or so that things have fallen behind.

    If you go to the surrounding coutries such as Uzbekistan and Pakistan (even Iran), they have quite a good infrastructure. It is just Afghanistan that has been left behind because of the war.

    Why Linux, well getting aid money to buy software isn't so hard. Unfortunately, it isn't going to pay for the updates. WIth Linux, you at least have a chance of ensuring your stuff is well maintained. At least in Pakistan and Uzbekistan (I worked there, so I know), you can buy Win2K3 or XP for a couple of dollars, but you can't really use aid money for pirated software.

    In palces like that, the replacement cycle for PCs lasts a long time. Three years ago, I was still seeing 486s in Uzbekistan under Win95. The ability of Linux to last longer with the same hardware is definitely an advantage.

    • For someone who lived and worked in the area you would think that they would know which countries were and were not former Soviet states.
      • The exact status of Afghanistan is somewhat debatable, technically it was independendent (but so was Mongolia) but for a time at least, it was closer to the USSR than the Warsaw-pact countries.
        • And guess what ... East Germany, Poland, etc. were not part of the Soviet Union either!
          • Tell that to Mr Vlad Putin. He was the KGB chief for the DDR. No, the Warsaw pact countries were essentially satellite governments with some (limited) rights of their own. Central Asia was different. Until the middle of the last century, the British were in India/Pakitsan and the Sviets came down to Uzbekistan. Afghanistan acted as a buffer state. It was reasonably independent (although packed with spies from both sides) and the positive side of Islamic culture could flourish. In 1979, a communist revolt fo

    • Re:Afghanistan is not a primitive country.... (Score:5, Informative)

      by foonf ( 447461 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:10AM (#6440543) Homepage
      Afghanistan is not a "former Soviet Country", really, although it was under a Soviet-backed government for a time. It never had the state-supported education and health-care infrastructure that developed in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, and even North Korea. The American-backed guerilla campaign against the government began almost as soon as the communists took power (and six months before the Soviet invasion), and any efforts they might have made to reorganize the society were made difficult by the almost continual state of war after 1979. So it is really the last 25 years that they have been "falling behind", and things were not amazingly great before then.
      • former communist then (albeit nominally), it was behind the iron curtain, being a tad pedantic on that one my friend.
      • and because of this, Afghanistan is only about 40% of the original country. The areas the Sovjet Union conquered (I can't spell!) became other "stans": Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, that indeed where under Sovjet rule until the creation of the Rusian Federation (which I think they are not member of). Afghanistan had (and probably still have) a high culture, which was developed before the CIA vs. KGB coldwar. Their connection to Pakistan today is not to forget either, and many (really many) afghan
        • Uzbekistan was carved out in the early twenties by Soviet geographers along with Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. In reality, there are a number of peoples in the area, and whilst there are definite ethnic groups, who ended up where had little to do with the reality. This one reason why Afghanistan is so complicated. Yes, there was a historical kingdom, but the people were from all over.
        • Actually most of the 'stans were conquered, occupied, and made states by the Russians prior to the Soviet Union. They were essentially vassal states, and incorporating them into the Soviet Union just openly acknowledged what had been true previously.

          Google for Britain, Russia, and "The Great Game" in the 19th century. Very interesting stuff.
      • I beg to differ, they certainly had a good education system in the eighties. One of my interpreters in Uz had worked there for a while and certainly it wasn't so bad in Kabul. Many of the outlying places had problems (especially to the south and west, corresponding to the Pakistan and Iranian border areas).
    • Unfortunately, it seems that the natural resource profile of Afghanistan breaks down like this:

      * 70% dirt
      * 10% rock
      * 8% rubble
      * 5% land mines
      * 5% unexploded ordinance
      * 2% flaming automobile hulls

      Fortunately, they have the market cornered on:

      * 100% newly liberated country which can provide pipeline access between caspian and arabian seas
  • Linux wins again. [googlefight.com]
    Seriously though there's even a Farsi version [lwn.net] of Knoppix.

  • Jesus. (Score:1, Redundant)

    by Valar ( 167606 )
    The GNAA is really pwning this thread. After going through the first page, there was only one actual comment. Perhaps it's time for an update of the filter?

    • Re:Jesus. (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Word! This thread got bend over hard by the GNAA. They are just too damn leet. I ph34r!
      • WTF is GNAA? I am half serious, half troll, and the other 22% is humor...

      • Re:Jesus. (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        They are just too damn leet


        script kiddies using many different proxies to post crap are not leet, they are just stupid script kiddies.

    • Re:Jesus. (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Don't blaspheme. . .
      and just ignore anonymous cowards.
      esay isn't it.

  • Weyhey! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Pinguu ( 677142 )
    For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.
    Unfortunatly over 1000 have already been trained in Windows :/

  • The thing is... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You can't really train for Linux.

    Linux happens.

  • Cause and effect (Score:5, Funny)

    by Compact Dick ( 518888 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:27AM (#6440590) Homepage
    For the first time, 11 people were trained in Linux in Kabul.
    ...who promptly unleashed a distributed GNAA crapflood attack on a popular geek website, Slahdot [slashdot.org].

  • This is just an intelligence move by the CIA (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sagarian ( 519668 ) <smiller&alum,mit,edu> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:31AM (#6440601)
    so they can set up a distributed worm that searches for /bin/laden

  • Next On Slashdot... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MixMiesterT ( 672651 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:34AM (#6440610)
    SCO sues Afganistan!

  • Linux perfect for further development.. Iraq also? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Groote Ka ( 574299 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:35AM (#6440615)
    IMHO, this is a good start. Not only from a cost point of view it's a good idea to provide third world countries with Linux. The learning effect of tinkering with the (open) source provides a wonderful learning opportunity for the folks out there.

    Next question is what is going to happen in Iraq. Will Linux be distributed or have closed source software giants learned from this part of development and are the now lobbying with 'The Authority' to have Windows deployed all over Iraq?

    • lobbying with 'The Authority' to have Windows deployed all over Iraq?

      I think that it's absolutely essential to have Windows deployed all over Iraq.

      So many windows were broken during the war, and now there's a glass shortage there. Windows to the people! Keep the blowing sand out of homes!

  • Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WegianWarrior ( 649800 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:47AM (#6440639) Journal

    Or even, why Open Source Software? I can see several possible reasons for the particular choice of operatingsystem they have picked to train the afgans in.

    Linux is essesially free off charge (if you pick the right distros), which means that the UN and the afgan goverment can spend their money on other things than buying lisences for the OS we all love to hate.

    Linux (and most other OSS) are not tied to a particular country of origin. Face it folks, both OS X, the various flavours of Windows and many of the commercial *nix belong to corpetations based in the US, and the US has managed to make itself less than popular with the UN lately.

    You can still get support for distrebutions of Linux that can and will run on older machines, like 386s and 486s. Thus it is possible to run the infrastructure on the hardware that is already present in the country, instead of forcing them to invest in the latest and greatest from Intel or AMD.

    Stability may be an issue. Linux has a reputation for beeing more stabel than a certain other OS, and it is certainly less likely to catch a virus. Thus money can be saved on support.

    Overall, I think the monetary considerations are the most important here - while the chance to kick the US on the leg may be a (happy) coincidence. And off course, the other question is; Do MicroSoft or Apple even provide a local flavour of their operatingsystems?

    • Also, it's actually possible to get linux into the country without violating any EULAs. Pretty much every piece of commercial software I've seen have that little bit about how you're not allowed to export it into any of the T7 countries or afghanistan. (some of them say "taliban controlled areas", so I guess those are OK)

      They should of course change now, but many of them still contain afghanistan.

      /August

    • Re:Why Linux? Some thought on possible reasons. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by edunbar93 ( 141167 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @04:22AM (#6440864)
      Or maybe, just maybe, it's a unix-like operating system that works wonders for building infrastructure?

      Using it to control and automate things like power stations and fresh water reservoirs, for instance.

      Not to mention banks.

      Things that were being done 20 years ago in the US by big iron mainframes that cost $180,000, plus $10,000 for the OS itself, which can now be outdone many times over by systems costing $300 and $0 for the OS.

      There's little or no need to use hardware as crufty as a 486 anymore, when you can get a system a cheap as this [ncix.com].

      Things in developing countries are typically done on the cheap, but are often newer technology than the legacy systems Americans continue to use (because it was state of the art years ago and would cost too much to bring back up to the state of the art again).
      • Actually, walk down the streets on any given garbage night and you can find all sorts of perfectly "usable" machines for gratis. Considering that we're looking at ways to dispose of those machines, I'm sure that Afghanistan and other rebuilding countries could put them to good use (what good is QuakeIII when you don't have reliable electricity? Build the infrastructure first, the entertainment/hobby aspect comes later). Sure, $300 is cheap (but how much to ship to Afghanistan?), but consider that you can
    • The posibility of developing people who already hate US to hate microsoft will most likely result in more attacks on M$ in the near future

  • It's a good start... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by jromz03 ( 686423 )
    ... for them to learn IT and what better way than through Linux. Maybe in the future we will see Afgani people posting here on /.


    Things can only look up for them.
  • How about we get some web developers over there, geez...
  • I've got nothing. Nevermind.

  • Yeah but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jeeryg_flashaccess ( 456261 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @03:14AM (#6440713) Homepage Journal
    ...a press release from Microsoft [microsoft.com] cleared up many pre-war allegations. Most interesting was the following:

    "This just proves that no WMA will be found in Iraq."

  • Netcraft [netcraft.com] says:-


    The site www.undp.org.af is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 behind a computer running Solaris 8.

    What a pity!

  • I thought Afghnistanistan already had Linux... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Spunk ( 83964 ) <sq75b5402@sneakemail.com> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @06:08AM (#6441118) Homepage
    Jon Katz wouldn't lie to us [slashdot.org]!
  • Junis saYS everything is going well, he's really enjoying his new rights that americans brought, including vodka, awsome western music and treating women as sex objects (no more burkas!!) Please contact me if you want to help Hunis with purchase of a new computer so he can too join the linux revolution in Afganistan!

  • ClusterKnoppix for Dummies

    Hax0r Y0ur xBOx

    Software and Internet Law (2nd Ed. covering SCO)

  • Ahmed, the infidels will surely perish at the hands of our Beowulf Cluster now!

  • What about nearly-free hardware to match? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by frostman ( 302143 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:29AM (#6442482) Homepage Journal
    I love the idea of propagating Linux and other free software in poor areas.

    But I wonder what the options are for extremely-low-cost hardware to match?

    If you consider that there's a lot of gov't bureaucratic infrastructure to build up, and not much public (international) money to support it, Linux et al are the obvious answer. Linux experts volunteering to do training are the next logical component.

    How cheap could decent computers be bought to round out the picture?

    I don't mean as in "Dell, give us freebies." I mean, could we get together good cheap PCs for US$100 including shipping? Or US$???howmany? What if you bought in Taiwan?

    I'd love to see some charity/not-too-corrupt-NGO make a website where you could buy a computer for the department of your choice in the poor country of your choice. You could opt to keep in touch with its users as well, if there's a common language between you. Dellpaqarcdbmitsu and the like would of coure be welcome to help.

    Anybody seen such a thing yet?

  • "Linux, built upon the venerable Unix operating system, is the creation of Linus Torvalds" [bbc.co.uk]

    So the OS is linux (not KDE/GNOME/X/GNU/Linux), and it's a rip off of Unix. That should push RMS's blood pressure a bit higher, and get the SCO lawyers rubbing their paws in glee. It's hard to refute their FUD when your boss has just read the BBC and seen this. "But linux must be ripping off Unix! The BBC couldn't publish it if it wasn't true!". Oh dear.

  • In addition to the lack of information systems infrastructure, and more importantly, there is a lack of communications infrastructure. While there's no doubt that some big company (Worldcom?) who is friends of the Bush2 administration (like Halliburton) will get a multi-billion dollar contract to build a fiber network some time in the next couple of years, what does afganistan do RIGHT NOW?

    Thomas Sailor wrote 'soundmodem' drivers for linux years back. These, used with other modules such as AX.25, allow for
    • More than likely you'll see solutions coming in stages.

      1 - Very fragile and formative stage with various networks deployed by US organizations (civil and military) and international NGOs

      -- HF radio networks (Voice and PACTOR/SITO)
      -- Data modem use in areas that have a semi-working telephone system and some surviving wirelines

      This is the system that will be the springboard for further development

      2 - Initial efforts at restoring the PSTN.

      -- Installing/repairing satellite ground stations fo
  • Afghanistan needs Linux right now the way Apu needs banana bread:

    OUTDOORS - STREET CORNER, KABUL. A MERCHANT is standing in front of a bombed-out store while a GEEK shows off the Linux laptop he has brought over.
    ------

    GEEK: I noticed you had your hands full with this devastation...so I put together this rad Linux system!
    MERCHANT: Oh Hallelujah! Our problems are solved, we have Linux!
    :::
    GEEK: Well..maybe you should get an assistant..
    MERCHANT: And what would I pay him with, Linux? Sorry, sorry, it's just

  • Relatedely.... (Score:2, Informative)

    by marebri ( 647708 )

    Developing countries (e.g. in Africa) are hardly ever mentioned as opportunities for growth in Linux usage.But they are, I think, some of Open Source's best opportunities.

    Hardly anything is computerized there (in govt.) and when it is, huge and outdated mainframes are used. In many countries, the next few years are likely to see a massive expansion in govt. computer systems. Its up to the few of us Linux users in those coutries to tout to our govts. the benefits of open source and Linux in particular.

    Ther
  • That's what we need. Linux associated with training camps in Afghanistan!

    In the News Today: Ashcroft had the entire Linux community rounded up and held at an undisclosed location. When asked why they are being held he remarked "These are enemy combatants that have training camps in Afghanistan and are going under a new code name. Linux! We are still trying to locate their leader who calls himself Tux"

  • Wow (Score:2)

    by ShoeHead ( 40158 )
    I wish I could put everyone who's posted on this topic as a foe. What is wrong with you people?

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