Linus Torvalds about SCO, IP, MS and Transmeta 431
strmcrw writes " San Jose Mercury News has an interview with Linus. He talks about about SCO vs IBM and gives his opinion on Microsoft. He also shed light on his decision to leave chip maker Transmeta for a Linux corporate software consortium, the Open Source Development Lab."
Slashdot Beatitudes (Score:5, Funny)
"Blessed are the poor in threshold: for theirs is the Kingdom of the Page-Lengthening and Page-Widening Posts.
"Blessed are they that mourn the death of *BSD: for they shall be comforted with an ultradense Linux server from VA Linux, now sold by California Digital Corporation.
"Blessed are the posters of smug one-liners: for they shall inherit an Account Capped at 50.
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after The First Post: for they shall have the Third or Fourth Post.
"Blessed are the karma whores: for they shall obtain "Score: 5, Insightful".
"Blessed are those who dismiss out-of-hand: for they shall fail to see the Point of the Original Post.
"Blessed are those who seek to associate themselves with the latest techno-fad: for they shall be called 3L33T for at least Another Half Hour.
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for their own self-righteousness' sake: for theirs is the Kingdom of "Ask Slashdot".
"Blessed are the over-eager, who believe that Open Source is a social movement heralding the rise of a new generation: for they shall not realize that There Are No Sacred Cows.
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for the sake of your Favorite Operating System.
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD
Re: Slashdot Beatitudes (Score:2, Funny)
> "Blessed are those who seek to associate themselves with the latest techno-fad: for they shall be called 3L33T for at least Another Half Hour.
Andy would be jealous: that's twice what anyone has a right to expect.
Re:Slashdot Beatitudes (Score:2, Funny)
Well, at least we know you subscribe to one point of your sermon.
However, I believe you forgot several more:
Blessed are they who submit stories, for their submission will be rehashed three days later.
Blessed are the poor-spellers and grammatically challenged, for they be published for all to read and heckle.
Blessed are they that actually read the article, their wit will smite the egos of slas
A Chapter or two Before... (Score:5, Funny)
In those days, Richard Stallman appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming, "Repent, for the kingdom of free software has come near." This is the one of whom the prophet spoke when he said, "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness: prepare the way of Linus, make his paths straight". Now Stallman wore clothing consisting of worn-out jeans and a T-shirt with a leather belt around his waist, and his food was pizza and Jolt. Then the people of Berkeley and all of Silicon Valley were going out to him, and all of the region along the Bay, and they were baptized by him in the swimming pool, confessing their sins.
But when he saw many Microsofties and Appleites coming for baptism, he said to them, "You spawn of Satan! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit worthy of repentence. Do not presume to say to yourselves, "We have Altair as our ancestor"; for I tell you, The Computer God is able from these circuit boards to raise up children to Altair. Even now the ax is lying at the root of the btrees; every btree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into a fire."
"I baptize you with water for repentence, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sneakers. He will baptize you with The Kernel and an email. His code fork is in his hand, and he will clear the threshing floor and gather the software into distros; but the vaporware he will burn with unquenchable fire."
Re:A Chapter or two Before... (Score:3)
The irony is crowned by the fact that RMS proclaims himself atheist.
But, like the Nazarene carpenter, and an Ayn Rand character, he has a gift for tweaking Big Brother and the Holding Company.
Re:A Chapter or two Before... (Score:2, Funny)
That's odd. I thought that he was the founder and patron saint of the Church of Emacs [stallman.org].
Re:Slashdot Beatitudes (Score:2, Interesting)
The use of psychology and memetics to combat open source. This trend is growing... MSFT must be hiring...
Don't be fooled by sigs such as: "Free as in working for IBM without getting paid", or biblical excerpts trying to associate deeply rooted beliefs to the hopelessness of open-source. These strategies are right out of psychology and memetic text-books...
And, so is this whole SCO mess. It exists only to f*ck with us and attempt to slow us down and lower our spirits... There is no intention for
Re:Wrong (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Slashdot Beatitudes (Score:2, Funny)
Aha! Then you are admitting you are a terrorist!
heh (Score:4, Funny)
" Do you steal a car in the bright daylight with a lot of people around? Or do you steal a car, go for a joyride at 4 am in the morning when there aren't a lot of people around."
I have visions of that scene from Groundhog day, except instead of Bill Murray and a groundhog driving it's Linus and a penguin...
graspee
Re:heh (Score:4, Funny)
Don't drive angry!!
That's funny because (Score:2, Funny)
Re:you silly... (Score:2, Funny)
Famously outspoken? (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps they are confusing him with RMS.
Good interview. (Score:4, Interesting)
It's interesting how the interviewers always seem to go into the same thread of what makes Linux great. Given the history one would never have expected it to do as well as it has; like chopsticks, which were actually invented by immigrant restaurant owners in America's mining communities in the 1800s, Linux has picked up a myth of its own that actually covers the more interesting fact that it was simply a hobby with momentum. It's a bit wierd to think that such a thing has evolved to contend with and possibly displace software actually engineered for the enterprise.
Can't wait for 2.6.
Re:Good interview. (Score:5, Informative)
Look here [about.com] for some information about the history of chopsticks.
Re:Good interview. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Good interview. (Score:5, Funny)
> Uh... sorry. Chopsticks have been in use for well over 1000 years, and probably longer.
Whereas we've only had 'forks' for the past 30...
Re: Good interview. (Score:2)
Forks are actually quite old [byu.edu].
Re: Good interview. (Score:2)
Re: Good interview. (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Good interview. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Good interview. (Score:2)
Which brings to mind a variation on a cliche, "You are never a profit in your own land."
--Joey
Linus the Unknown Comic (Score:5, Funny)
Alright that made me laugh out loud. And confirmed the fact to the wife that I'm a geek because it did.
Damn you Torvalds...
Right (Score:3, Funny)
Wife, heh. Next you'll be telling us you've had sex with said wife and have kids.
Re:Linus the Unknown Comic (Score:4, Insightful)
A: I think it ultimately the only way to do software. I have arguments why. The main one is the complexity issue. It's very hard for someone who doesn't work like this to keep control of an increasingly complex source base and increasingly complex user base. If you try to control the process too much, you can go straight to the end point where you want to go. That works well if you know where the end point is. If you don't know where it is and you can't control where people want to use your software, it's a very bad thing to have one branch that is very concentrated on one line of development. The best analogy is biological diversity."
I don't know, but I suspect that IBM is on to something.
The Linux "Operating System" (Score:5, Insightful)
Linus Torvalds is the creator of the Linux operating system, the open source version of Unix that is sweeping through the software world in a direct challenge to Microsoft.
[Emphasis mine]
From Rob's own http://cmdrtaco.net/
What? You haven't heard of Linux? It's an operating system created by Linus Torvalds, and a band of hacks scattered accross the globe.
[Emphasis mine]
Sorry GNU/FSF/RMS. You're like Rodney Dangerfield; you never get respect...
Re:The Linux "Operating System" (Score:2, Insightful)
Doesn't nearly everyone who has heard of Linux know that the name refers to all the applications that come with a Linux distro, including the GNU apps?
Referring to it as GNU/Linux gives the FSF more credit than they deserve. Sure they deserve a lot of credit, but there are many other things that go into a typical distro that deserve about as much credit, such as:
RedHat's ext2/ext3 filesystem
XFree86
GNOME or KDE
Mozilla
OpenOffice.org
Ap
Re:The Linux "Operating System" (Score:3, Insightful)
You are missing the point, which is that Linux is not an operating system but a kernel. Linus did not create XFree86, GNOME/KDE, or any other part of a typical Linux distro except the
The point (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux is running all my drivers, talking to all my hardware, managing my memory and my processes. It is controlling my computer as an operational system. You can take GNU out of the equation with a bit of work and Linux will still go at
Re:The point (Score:3, Insightful)
Linux is running all my drivers, talking to all my hardware, managing my memory and my processes. It is controlling my computer as an operational system. You can take GNU out of the equation with a bit of work and Linux will still go at it.
True.
I choose to use Linux. It just so happens GNU tools are included on the distros I use, but I'm not choosing to use Linux for those GNU tools, I'm choosing to use it for the kernel, its hardware support, and so forth. If all of GNU was replaced, I'd still be using
Re:The point (Score:4, Insightful)
While you made a decent post, I really think you too are missing the point.
Stallman had a dream. A dream everyone else thought was crazy. A dream of a Free as in speech Operating System, a kernel, text editors, compilers, everything you need to actually use the computer, and all Free. He called that dream GNU. And because, back when everyone else thought he was crazy, he persevered, worked his ass off and didn't give up, we now have actually not one but several different Free Operating Systems. There's one to run on just about any hardware you can find, from a PS2 to an old Acorn box to an IBM supercomputer.
Did Stallman write all that code? Of course not. Did the FSF write it all? Of course not. That would have been silly. He knew from the beginning that road was impossible. They just wrote from scratch what they had to - i.e. X was already there, no need to reinvent the wheel, but there weren't any decent Free compilers, so they made GCC. Linux came along and contributed a kernel, one piece among many to make the OS.
If people don't want to call GNU by it's proper name, no one can force them. But don't let the issue be sidetracked into trying to label what percentage is GNU and what is X and so forth - it doesn't matter. GNU was the vision, and the FSF produced the pieces no one else would, to make that vision reality. I, for one, think we all owe them a debt we can never repay. Calling the OS by it's proper name is only fair.
Re:The point (Score:3, Informative)
This is where you're fundamentally wrong. Even Linus himself is on record multiple times to the contrary. Without GNU he would never have had the tools to start the project, and he wouldn't have had anything to run on his kernel even if he somehow managed to create one without a compiler anyway!
You accuse Stallman of being bitter, I don't see that, but if he were it would be understandable with the sort of ignorance of history your s
Re:The Linux "Operating System" (Score:2, Insightful)
It's like you're looking for something to bitch at. Seriously can you honestly blame people for not wanting to say:
"Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux (an operating system kernel, which is the underlying interface to hardware devices and other system resources and not a complete package of applications/tools etc. that may or may not be GNU and copyrighted by the FSF)
This isn't a troll. I'm seriously a little tired of hearing from people complaining about the general public callin
At risk of being modded as flamebait... (Score:5, Insightful)
If that had happened then they could have named it whatever RMS wanted. Instead Linus cobbled together Linux, GPL'd the source, and pretty much stole the show as far as naming the operating system.
Yet, much of the success of GNU is the freedom to distribute it WITHOUT permission of RMS (just as long as you provide the source code...). Of course, you can do this with non-GPL code too (*BSD, perl, python) but RMS hacked the copyright system first.
So the real success story is that GNU's bash can be used with Linux, Windows (under Cygnus), or with Mac OS X. RMS might have lost the battle (over GNU/Linux), but he certainly won the war (bash is just one successful example).
Re:At risk of being modded as flamebait... (Score:2)
This is a Good Thing. I mean, the best name RMS could come up with is "Hurd"? And When all is said and done he'll want us to say "GNU/Hurd"?
Re:At risk of being modded as flamebait... (Score:3, Funny)
Nice little sequence there.
What? (Score:2)
Notepad/Windows XP (at least that's what I call it).
Re:The Linux "Operating System" (Score:2, Redundant)
if it was easy to do what linus did, hurd would be flying. its not. so gnu made some tools. good for them. they released them to the free world. you dont go giving something away then bitching about credit, thats what little kids do.
linus doesnt bitch about RH making money or anyone for that matter. He doesnt bitch. He protects his trademark of Linux, but thats it. You can do what you want with the linux kernel. I bet you could take it, fork it and call it the GnuRules kernel if you re
SCO Executive Addresses (Score:4, Informative)
1799 Vintage Oak Ln
Salt Lake City, UT 84121-6539
(801)424-2006
Chris Sontag
32 Lone Holw
Sandy, UT 84092-5505
(801)576-0285
Re:SCO Executive Addresses (Score:3, Funny)
Re:SCO Executive Addresses (Score:2, Funny)
two thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
- It's funny how many evolution/ecosystem type metaphors he made - maybe he's been reading the complete works of S. J. Gould or something
Which one? (Score:5, Funny)
> Linus
Alright, always wanted to know what happened to that round headed kid and his delusional dog! Why didn't Schroeder ever make it as a concert pianist - was it drugs, or did the parental pressure finally get to him? And that little red headed girl - is she working in the "male entertainment" industry somewhere?
And don't get me started on that bossy Lucy...
Re:Which one? (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't she running Hewlett-Packard these days?
Re:Which one? (Score:2, Funny)
Linus == bland (Score:2, Funny)
The whole "aww shucks, whatever works" angle is putting me to sleep.
C'mon Linus, change the license on the kernel to the MS EULA and rename it LT/Linux and let's get this party started!
The beat goes on. (Score:5, Interesting)
Linux keeps evolving, and diversifying, SCO is ultimately irrelevant. Heres a follow up from IDG http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages/idgnet.asp?id=4636
The one good thing that might come out of this, is there finally enough anger to get some changes in our idiotic patent and copyright systems.
Re:The beat goes on. (Score:4, Interesting)
If IBM actually allowed System V code to leak into other operating systems, SCO would only need to identify the leaks. They would be removed overnight, and their removal would be accompanied by apologies and a check covering realistic damages. That appears to be what happened when UnixSystem Labs teamed with Novell to take the University of California, Berkeley to court, claiming that System V leaked into BSD Unix. USL/Novell proved three instances of leakage, which were promptly plugged. When it was Berkeley's turn at the podium, it identified mountains of reverse leakage -- BSD code that was stripped of BSD's copyright text and pasted into System V. Oops. The plaintiffs quickly settled and had the settlement terms sealed.
Firstly, IBM would fight tooth and nail to protect its reputation for probity in respect of IP. Secondly, the quick settlement referred to respecting the Berkeley vs Novell/USL dispute took about 18 months to resolve. Sure, by the standards of US litigation this was fast but scarcely an immediate solution. Thirdly, Novell bought USL: not quite the same as teaming up with them. Lastly, the solution that was negotiated is misrepresented. The article suggests two separate cases whereas the settlement was largely a trade off between the respective violations of the two parties.
Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with Linus that Linux will be damaged if the case is not resolved soon. It already has with assholes like McBride suing everyone who mentions the word Linux.
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:4, Funny)
Linux Linux Linux Linux Linux. Did I mention Linux? Yes I did. Linux.
Oh, by the way, Linux.
That's all I had to say. Linux.
ps Linux
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:3, Funny)
Have you got anything without Linux?
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:5, Insightful)
I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel," said Enderle of Giga Information Group, who viewed the alleged code violations two weeks ago. "The lines of code contained typos, misspellings and even copyright disclaimers. It appeared to constitute a violation of the license."
Hmmmm. . . whose copyright disclaimers, exactly? Like, say "Copyright (c) 1985, 1986 The Regents of the University of California."? Puh-lease. Unless the Linux kernel contains code that is clearly labelled as "Copyright AT&T", this particular nugget of wisdom mostly just suggests that SCO copied someone else's code. (FYI: there are a few bits of kernel 2.4 labelled with AT&T, but they're also identified as being freely usable.) How fucking stupid do they think we are? And what is the "central module"?
I guess on the bright side this means that all we need to do is hunt down every copyright notice in Linux and we'll prove or disprove the code copying... anyone? anyone? Bueller?
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:5, Interesting)
You're quoting Rob Enderle, who said of himself in this article [internetwk.com] (which also ashed Linux and it's supporters):
I wish all of the enemies of Linux were stupid enough to say up front that their opinions belong to whoever paid them most recently.
Also, Enderle says:
You could not have a better declaration that this is bullshit if you paid him for it. No way could you take 'every third line' and some how integrate it with code from some other source and make it work. Also, if it's the "central module of the linux kernel", I think we can be pretty sure Linus wrote that himself. Enderle shows only his corruption and/or his ignorance, nothing more.Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:5, Insightful)
This is telling:
However, Linux is in many ways a throwback to more primitive systems. Not only is it repeating the mistakes of its predecessors, it apparently is introducing a brand new set of problems, having to do with intellectual property.
This line of propaganda was expected. This is the entire goal, to break the collective thoughts of disparate programmers around the world. They want to *blame* Linux, to belittle Linux, so that the megacorps can control.
You can guess the nature of future propaganda.
More FUD, step around, nothing to see here.
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:2)
> everyone who mentions the word Linux.
Please name some of those he has sued.
In fact, SCO has sued only IBM, and that for breach of contract, not copyright infringement.
Re:Unfortunatly, SCO's case is not about IBM (Score:5, Informative)
Linux CANNOT be destroyed/removed/etc. as a result of this lawsuit. Just as SCO can't "accidentally" make its own IP GPL'ed software by releasing Linux before it realized that it has their code in it (if it is there), Linux can't be punished for letting illegal code in without his knowledge. He didn't see SCO code, there was NO way for him to tell (again, if it is there).
Like it or not, SCO must eventually give specifics as to what code is in the kernel, they can't claim damages without giving the defending side the ability to change ti. So Linus will soon enough learn about the offending code, and if it is indeed their code, it will be removed. Either way, true or false, the kernel is in no danger.
Direct from Linus: Linux is like Microsoft. (Score:4, Insightful)
"I think they are struggling to deal with Linux partly because Linux is undermining them the same way they undercut their competition."
I guess the old goose-gander thing should apply.
Re:Direct from Linus: Linux is like Microsoft. (Score:2)
Warm places... (Score:4, Interesting)
A: Some parts I love. I have a convertible. I will never ever move to a place where I can't drive a convertible."
Amen brother...
Convertibles (Score:2)
Interesting. The country I most closely associate with convertibles is . . . the United Kingdom, which is not known for warm weather. If the weather is too warm, you have to keep the top up so the AC will work; if it's too cold, you keep the top up because of wind chill.
FWIW, I live in Oregon, more than a little to the north of where Linus lives (& very close to the UK in terms of climate). And where -- according to the grapevine
Re:Convertibles (Score:2)
It irritates my wife that when we see a convertible with the roof up and it's not raining I always say (to myself) "Get t
Re:Convertibles (Score:2)
Nobel peace prize (Score:5, Interesting)
Better Yet (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nobel peace prize (Score:2)
Well, since you don't know anything about the Nobel Peace Prize, I highly recommend looking it up. Here it is [nobel.se], straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Since Torvals (and Linux) has done nothing to prevent wars and such, I can't imagine why he would ever be considered for a Nobel Peace Prize, despite the usefulness of his creation. Linux doesn't really qualify as something that "confers great benefit to mankind" (paraphrasing).
Take a look through the list of Laureates [nobel.se] for this Prize. You'll notice t
Re:Nobel peace prize (Score:2)
if linus were tomorrow start working at red hat and only code additional changes for thei
Re:Nobel peace prize (Score:2, Insightful)
In the long term, "the world" will be better off by changing to the linux, or rather the free software, paradigm.
Re:Nobel peace prize (Score:3, Funny)
So either everyone else is lying to themselves, or just you. Micro vs. monolithic kernels is a trade off (simplicity vs. speed), but with a good design, monolithic kernels are just as stable and modular. Linus won the flamewar [openresources.com], and Linux is winning in the real world.
It seems that open source community's stance on this is "either it's fully open or we don
KIssinger (Score:2)
At least Duc Tho had the decency to decline the price.
If Kissinger can get it why not Linus Torvalds?
Re:You meant Stallman. (Score:3, Insightful)
Could go either way. I think it looks more like Stallman is standing on the shoulders of Linus. Without the emergance of the Linux kernel, most of Stallman's work was just sitting there looking pretty.
You're looking at the wrong work. Stallman's true insights are not embodied in the GNU codebase, they're embodied in the GPL. His crowning achievement was the observation that he could "hack the copyright system", employing copyright law itself to make software "free". In retrospect this seems like a sim
Being that this is a mainstream article.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Looking at the questions in mind, it's fairly obvious that they were set up - ie. that the journalist in question was asking for specific answers (ie. had done his homework properly), but Linus was far too prepared to answer briefly, obviously giving the journalist a reply he'd understand, but not making for good reading.
My wife - who has a fairly good understanding of how open projects work (and has coded both programming languages and html), but is by no means a linux geek - only just understood what Linus was saying, and she's both fairly knowledgable and extremely insightful.
This paragraph, for instance, has so many dependancies (:p) - it requires the user to understand coding, *open source* coding, and have a fairly good understanding of the ethos of.. well, several things. Most readers will *not* be reading with these understandings - if anything, they'll read in *order* to glean these kinds of understandings of something they'll only barely have heard of.
I don't think it's entirely because Linus doesn't speak english natively, either, to fend off potential criticism: I speak three languages, and I know *plenty* of efl (english as a foreign language) speakers who speak english which isn't as good as Linus's (which is excellent) who can explain technical issues with more clarity
In summary.. this is yet another of the problems facing popular adoption of a niche's product. ;)
Re:Being that this is a mainstream article.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Being that this is a mainstream article.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Being that this is a mainstream article.. (Score:5, Funny)
Having heard him speak often enough, I'm reasonably sure Linus is a more accomplished English speaker than you are. But more to the point, I question why you even felt compelled to raise the issue.
I'm very sorry that your wife needs to have forking explained to her. Ah, take that how you will.
Re:Being that this is a mainstream article.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why, you should email him and give him a piece of your mind then. For my part, I felt the article his responses were artfully crafted for exactly the target audience he wished to address, and just so you know, that is not the general public. It is people like you and me, technophiles who hang out out the net and help define the future directions of technology, and hence, society. To put it less delicately, he's aiming at people who have a clue.
If your wife needs someone to speak more directly to her level of knowledge, point her at Mad Dog Hall [tectonic.co.za]. Now there is a man who speaks beautifully to the masses and enjoys doing it.
SCO means NOTHING to Linux or Linus (Score:2, Insightful)
The trivial bits of code which SCO probably added themselves during the Caldera era does not currently affect Linux or it's distributions.
If SCO miraculously wins an injunction against distributions with the copyrighted code, it will be easily rectified.
Furthermore, if it is proven that Caldera actually introduced the disputed code, which can be verified by looking at past distributions, they should hav
Visibility (Score:4, Interesting)
SCO court deadline? (Score:2, Interesting)
They HAVE filed a lawsuit, yes?
When will there be an actual legal development, meaning what is the next noteworthy date in the legal proceedings of this case? (Hearing, trial, etc.)
Microsoft and SCO (Score:4, Informative)
A: It's not exactly clear what they licensed.
Microsoft's been quite honest about what they licensed from SCO. Significant portions of Interix (the Unix subsystem for Windows) are direct ports of SCO's IP (the stuff SCO actually owns, not just what they say they own).
They weren't funding SCO's lawsuit, but it was a PR play. Now Microsoft can point to all of SCO's chest-puffery and say that they're compliant with SCO's licenses and that if you pick the Microsoft solution, you're safe from all of that liability.
Qualms with the article (Score:4, Insightful)
More misunderstanding. I know it's preaching to the choir, but Linux is just the kernel, and the GNU project deserves just as much representation as does Linus Torvalds for it's creation of low level tools such as GCC. Linus is hardly the sole creator of the base system, although he did write the kernel as I'm sure you know.
"...the open source version of Unix..."
Linux is not a version of Unix. GNU/Linux is a derivative clone of UNIX. The system was initially chosen by the GNU project to be a clone of UNIX because it was the most portable OS at the time. I don't know how closely the Linux kernel compares to UNIX kernels and such, but GNU/Linux is definitly UNIX-like as a result of initial planning by the Free Software Foundation. Furthermore, if Linux was a version of UNIX (all of which must be licensed) wouldn't this whole interview (at least the SCO parts) be pointless since SCO licenses UNIX? Saying it's a version implys that it uses UNIX code, which is what brought us to all this madness in the first instance. Honestly, do these reports even know what they're saying, or do they just run off scripts?
"He is a technical leader and an outspoken advocate of open source development, which allows software users to develop and modify their own versions of software for free."
Notice how they use the term "for free" rather than something like "freely modify". Just a subtle point which I felt was worthy of pointing out. Also, notice the commonly used over-patronage of Linus. I think the media does this, unconciously, to effectivley set the boundaries of acceptable discourse on the amazing social phenomenon that is the movement commonly refered to as the "Open Source Movement," which sets unprecidented examples for healthy human society and interaction in comparison to the failed systems of the past. One can't even begin to draw parallels simply because of this sort-of systematic patronage of one man, and overlooking of an entire movement.
For our readers who don't know the origins of Linux, can you talk about how it was written given the existence of Unix?
A: The origin was all written by me. For the first six months or so I was the only person working on Linux. It took almost a year before there was a major contribution from people outside. It's all original code since day one.
Linus: "I am at the center...
You get a lot of folks bashing on RMS because he politely asks people to at least acknowledge the work of the Free Software Foundation by calling the system GNU/Linux, but here you have Torvalds claiming entire responisibility of the OS, granted in response to a question about SCO's involvement in the origins of the OS, but nonetheless claiming total responsibility. So how can we conclude that RMS is cocky when we have this kind of total disregard for everyone else involved in the development of the system.
Until we stop using terms like Linux meaning the whole OS and Intellectual Property as being every legal issue under the sun, we simply can't even begin to have a logical discussion about the issues at hand, and will only further confuse those who may casually read about these subjects in the news.
After reading this article I really thought about a lot of things, and came to the conclusion that the term "Open Source" is really pointless and should be avoided. If you think about it, all source is open. Propreitary code is open to the developers who work on it. It's just maintained in a system of checks, balances, non-disclosure agreements, and "need to know" prediciments. What you're really talking about when you discuss "open-source" is exactly how open it is, and who exactly it's open to. That's why I think it's better to use the term free when discussing these matters, as it's a more liberating term without the boundaries that "open" source can have. Sure it's "open", but who exactly is it open to? If something's free, it's just free; Their are no heirarchiel limitations.
Qualms with your post (Score:4, Insightful)
You could still use Linux without GNU tools. Linux is the kernel that is controlling my freaking laptop. It is operating my computer into a usable state. I can replace bash, GCC, and all the rest if I wanted.
Linux is not a version of Unix. GNU/Linux is a derivative clone of UNIX.
Ah, a "GNU/Linux" weenie.
He said "open source version," which is another way of saying it's the open source counterpart, clone, whatever. Version wasn't meant to be so literal.
The system was initially chosen by the GNU project to be a clone of UNIX because it was the most portable OS at the time. I don't know how closely the Linux kernel compares to UNIX kernels and such, but GNU/Linux is definitly UNIX-like as a result of initial planning by the Free Software Foundation. Furthermore, if Linux was a version of UNIX (all of which must be licensed) wouldn't this whole interview (at least the SCO parts) be pointless since SCO licenses UNIX? Saying it's a version implys that it uses UNIX code, which is what brought us to all this madness in the first instance. Honestly, do these reports even know what they're saying, or do they just run off scripts?
You posted an entire insane diatribe over the non-literal use of the word "version." Go see Terminator 3 and relax a bit.
Notice how they use the term "for free" rather than something like "freely modify". Just a subtle point which I felt was worthy of pointing out. Also, notice the commonly used over-patronage of Linus. I think the media does this, unconciously, to effectivley set the boundaries of acceptable discourse on the amazing social phenomenon that is the movement commonly refered to as the "Open Source Movement," which sets unprecidented examples for healthy human society and interaction in comparison to the failed systems of the past. One can't even begin to draw parallels simply because of this sort-of systematic patronage of one man, and overlooking of an entire movement.
Maybe they just liked the idea of free stuff.
You get a lot of folks bashing on RMS because he politely asks people to at least acknowledge the work of the Free Software Foundation by calling the system GNU/Linux, but here you have Torvalds claiming entire responisibility of the OS, granted in response to a question about SCO's involvement in the origins of the OS, but nonetheless claiming total responsibility.
He claimed responsibility...for LINUX! You injected "OS" and went off on another GNU rant. The two letters "OS" were not even uttered. He did not claim total responsibility for "everything."
So how can we conclude that RMS is cocky when we have this kind of total disregard for everyone else involved in the development of the system.
Because RMS didn't have anything to do with the original code of Linux, and it WAS all Linux those first six months. What is your friggin' point? Next.
Until we stop using terms like Linux meaning the whole OS and Intellectual Property as being every legal issue under the sun, we simply can't even begin to have a logical discussion about the issues at hand, and will only further confuse those who may casually read about these subjects in the news.
You are so clearly biased.
Linux is my operating system. I'm not afraid to say it. It is the software that is managing all the of the hardware in my computer, providing drivers, making sure memory is taken care of, managing all of my processes...GNU tools are in there along with a bunch of other things. I could replace all the GNU tools with other software and still use Linux. Linux is operating my system, whether or not G
Re:Qualms with the article (Score:4, Insightful)
You get a lot of folks bashing on RMS because he politely asks people to at least acknowledge the work of the Free Software Foundation by calling the system GNU/Linux, but here you have Torvalds claiming entire responisibility of the OS, granted in response to a question about SCO's involvement in the origins of the OS, but nonetheless claiming total responsibility.
That's funny
Look, as much as I agree with the GNU/Linux terminology in principle, I think it's really clear in context when Linus is talking about Linux and when he's talking about GNU/Linux in this article. Linus may be a bastard with an eye on world domination, but he's not an megalomaniacal bastard with an eye on world domination. (I will not be drawn into the subtleties of this debate here, because my personal opinion is irrelevant, and quite frankly, I have nothing new to bring to either side. And yes, there are people who could read this who don't know the difference; perhaps you should email the article author and ask him to post a revised revision, if you're concerned about it.)
I believe the rest of your comments would be better directed at the conductor of the interview, who's responsible for the content, rather than the people at Slashdot, 99% of whom already know this.
My hero! (Score:3, Funny)
A: There has been a lot of rumor. It's more of an allegation. It's complete crap."
Don't you just love it when Linus dispells all those rumors???
GO LINUS!!
Re:Their editors... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Their editors... (Score:2)
Just to clarify: The "an" in the title at the Merc is intentional -- the writer is trying to make a cute play on words. In journalist slang, a person who provides information is a "source" and a source of information that is freely accessible is "open". To the news writer, then, Linus Torvalds is an "open source" about Open Source software.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand English. Its grammar and syntax is not that
Dumbfuck! (Score:2, Informative)
Current Transmeta CPUs run an emulated x86 instruction set, so you can run your favourite distro as long as it supports the surrounding hardware...
Re:Dumbfuck! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:The Transmeta Connection (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know about you, but I blame the Dutch Tulip Craze^W^W^WDot Com Bust for the lack of a Unix-optimized version of the Crusoe. The original benefit of the Crusoe's code-morphing technology was supposed to be the fact that it would be able to run nearly any other platform's code natively. Then, the bubble popped, and the Crusoe was delegated to the small market of low-power consumption x86 compatible chips.
IMO the whole thing's a shame. TMTA would have probably been a lot healthier if they would have offered a native VLIW chip in addition to the Crusoe, so that embedded people who didn't care about x86 compatibility could use this damn nice chip to provide real good, low power devices for markets such as set-top boxes, where x86 compatibility is a non-issue.
Re:The Transmeta Connection (Score:2)
There is no doubt that it's a nice chip, but there is no shortage of nice chips out there for embeded uses...
Re:unix history (Score:3, Informative)
> he'll be PISSED.
RMS does not deny that the Linux kernel is entirely the work of Linus and his collaborators.
Re:unix history (Score:4, Informative)
I doubt RMS would dissagree with Linus' statement.
Stallman may be a bore, and he may be self-rightous at times, but he does know what part is Linux and what parts are GNU.
Re:SCO vs. IBM vs. [INSERT YOUR NAME HERE] (Score:4, Insightful)
This is called "discovery phase". It will be years away at this rate, unless IBM's lawyers decide to clusterfuck SCO with various motions. (I'm surprised this hasn't happened already.)
As I've said before. SCO isn't in this to do the right thing. SCO wants money and power.
I suspect what they're really after is some collateral damage. They'll never win against IBM, but they can ruffle enough feathers in the Linux-using corporate world to either boost their pathetic sales or to score some phat licensing deals from witless CTOs. The case doesn't even have to make it to trial: Darl just needs to continue making noise, and some idiots will think he's for real. SCO may not win <dr_evil>one billion dollars</dr_evil>, but they'll make enough and quietly drop the case.
I know paranoid theories are in vogue here, but I don't think it's that loopy. The parade of apparently clueless analysts who have been attesting to SCO's honor and victimhood are worthless for impressing the tech community or from a legal perspective, but very good at setting a precedent for eventual licen$e fee$. . .
Re:Text of the article. (Score:4, Funny)
Well, that's a interesting question.
You see, analogies are like the string that binds together the langu-
Re:Minix: the origin of Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Minix: the origin of Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, considering that the Minix code was included with a book written by Tannenbaum, I think you're a little wide of the mark there. What Linus wasn't allowed to do, or anyone else for that matter, was contribute code back to Tannebaum's OS.
Anyway, it's well-known Linux is a from-scratch implementation, which apparently started as a terminal emulator (and that possibly explains why the console handling code still sucks so much, but there you go). Andy Tannenbaum has had plenty of time to complain about any plagiarism, if Linus indulged in it, and trust me, he would have [oreilly.com].
Re:Minix: the origin of Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Linux back in the very early 90's used the Minix filesystem prior to the ext series. I never did figure out why they created a whole new filesystem from scratch instead of just grabbing the BSD ufs (that just about everyone else used at the time).
BWP
Re:WHITEY (Score:2, Insightful)
Buses Considered Harmful (Score:3, Insightful)
But I don't think it's a problem with Linux. See there's nothing preventing anyone from forking Linux and making a version without Linus' input. It's just that most people support his decisions because it's his project and he's involved.
If he gets hit by a truck, it will certainly shake up core Linux develo