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SuSE Businesses Software Linux

Review of SuSE 8.2 309

Posted by michael from the nice-gecko dept.
technoid_ writes "The Register has a glowing review of Suse 8.2. Wow, the Register can actually be nice?"
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Review of SuSE 8.2 More

Review of SuSE 8.2

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  • Pronounciation (Score:4, Interesting)

    by n-baxley ( 103975 ) <nate.baxleys@org> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:40PM (#5853409) Homepage Journal
    A bit OT here, but I have no idea how you pronounce SuSE. Is it like Sussie or like Sousa (without the a)?

    Just curious. Maybe this is a lInix/lEEnix thing.

    • Re:Pronounciation (Score:3, Informative)

      by Laplace ( 143876 )
      Sousa is correct.

    • Re:Pronounciation (Score:2, Informative)

      by greenskyx ( 609089 )
      Suse, rymes with Moose... ? That's what I was always told atleast... let me know if I'm wrong...

    • I could be wrong... (Score:4, Informative)

      by LordYUK ( 552359 ) <jeffwright821@gm a i l .com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:45PM (#5853455)
      but I always thought it was like the girls name "suzy" (soo-zee)

      SuSE... ::shrugs::

      lets see what google says (note, I have no clue who these people in the thread are, so this isnt necessarily fact)

      FROM: Frank Pawlak
      DATE: 01/30/1998 23:22:19
      SUBJECT: RE: [S.u.S.E. Linux] SuSE History

      On Jan 30, 9:32pm, Jonathan Markevich wrote:
      > Subject: Re: [S.u.S.E. Linux] SuSE History
      >
      >
      > On 30-Jan-98 Frank Pawlak wrote:
      >
      > >> Can anyone tell us about the history of the SuSE company? How long has it
      > >> been in busness? What does SuSE mean? And so on.
      >
      > A good question, more importantly, though, how do you pronounce SuSE! I like
      > "Suzie", though someone else around here likes "Sooz". Ess-You-Ess-Eee has
      to
      > go.

      Say like so: Sue-sa with a short a at the end. Like Sue-suh maybe.
      Regards
      Frank

      • Dear Suzy (Score:3, Funny)

        by Letter ( 634816 )
        but I always thought it was like the girls name "suzy" (soo-zee)

        Dear Suzy,

        Congratulations on your new version 8.2! Your pics on the Register are hot. I think I'll install you on my new P4.

        Love,
        Linus

    • I believe it is the later - Sousa (without the A). You could also also call it linux with a lizard , they will understand.

    • Re:Pronounciation (Score:5, Informative)

      by Afreet23 ( 666998 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:46PM (#5853476) Homepage
      This [sourceforge.net] should answer your questions.

      • Re:Pronounciation (Score:5, Funny)

        by Daimaou ( 97573 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:01PM (#5853606)
        Oh, I've been calling "Soooooossss", all slow and exaggerated out like that. I feel like a freaking idiot.

        Thanks for the acronym and pronunciation information.

        However, I don't feel ALL dumb because at least I didn't mispell the word proNUNciation (although I probably mispelled others).

        Okay, now I feel like a pud again for spontaneously turning into a grammar officer.

        Dammit SuSE! Why couldn't you have been easy to pronounce in the first place and saved me all this shame?
    • I'm going to tell RMS that you didn't call it GNU/Linux! You'll be sorry when the jackbooted thugs break into your mom's basement and beat you to within an inch of your life, all the time yelling, "GNU/Linux! GNU/Linux! GNU/Linux!"

      Who's scared of the BSA, governemnt, multinational corporations, the CIA, or terrorists? You should be scared of the FSF!

    • Re:Pronounciation (Score:4, Informative)

      by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:55PM (#5853553) Homepage Journal
      SuSE being a German company, I think it should be "soozeh" (which, IIRC, is how SuSE wants it pronounced).

      BTW, suse used to be an acronym ("System und Software Entwicklung"), but no longer is. (in contrast to many things in the computing world which started out not being acronyms but later got expansions tacked on to them, like BASIC).

    • Re:Pronounciation (Score:5, Informative)

      by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:03PM (#5853619)
      In germany we pronounce it "Suse". Haha.

      Ok, so the first part sounds like "Sue" or "Soo" with a sharp "S" - something like the first sylable in "soup" (like chicken).
      The second part is "suh" or "ze", like the last sylable in "nose" (sphinx) or "hose" (gardening).

      Note that in german you can read pronounciation even if you have never heard the word before. German pupils can usually read - if not very fluently - after 3 months in school!
      I wonder if a semi-unification of writing and speech, like unifying the writing of sylables (something like "nite" instead of "night") would help the iliteracy problem in the US in any way.

      To me personally the difference is very significant since both english and german are my mothertounge. I learned both at the same time along with all the advantages and disadvantages. One being that my spelling in both is not that good, whilst I'm able to pronounce third languages (such as maybe french or japanese) allmost accent free. I account this to the oral 'flexibility' you gain from growing up with a german mother and a texacan father, meaning two somewhat different languages in terms of pronounciation. :-)
    • They have t-shirts for merchandising. One of them say in the front "How do you say superb in Linux?" and in the back the answer for your question: "SuSE.{soo' sah} is {soo' purb}" (not sure how to put that soo in both are with a line over and u is with ^ over, my HTML is not good enough for phonetical writing.
    • Who cares how you pronounce Sussie as long as she goes :)

  • This did not happen (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mohammed Al-Sahaf ( 665285 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:41PM (#5853418)
    Suse 8.2 was not reviewed - in fact it was never released! This entire article is a lie! We have destroyed 2 tanks, fighter planes, 2 helicopters and their shovels - We have driven them back. As for The Register, I have detailed information about the situation...which completely proves that what they allege are illusions . . . They lie every day.
    • Wow, Mohammed Saeed Al Sahaf has his own Slashdot user number.

      This will be funny once or twice. After that I look forward to modding you DOWN, dude.

      What about Natalie Portman? Is she registered?

      • Re:This did not happen (Score:4, Funny)

        by Mohammed Al-Sahaf ( 665285 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @07:13PM (#5857808)
        After that I look forward to modding you DOWN, dude.
        You can try. I will welcome you with bullets and shoes. Some moderators tried already to downvote me; by the grace of Allah they were destroyed. They will try to enter Baghdad, and I think this is where their graveyard will be. Iraq will spread them even more and chop them up.

  • This is a good review (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:41PM (#5853427)
    This review of SuSE is much more informative:
    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3163 [osnews.com]

  • It seems more like... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by duncanatlk ( 643480 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:42PM (#5853433)
    a review of KDE 3.1 to me.

  • Version numbers (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You don't have to read the article to know that RedHat 9.0 is better than SuSE 8.2. Linux 2.5 is the worst. It's way behind the rest of the pack.

  • NVidia and SAMBA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:48PM (#5853490) Homepage Journal
    From the article:

    I opted for the RPM because nVidia warns of dire consequences with SaX2 configuration otherwise.
    Oddly enough, I did just the opposite by using SuSE's "update" feature and it worked flawlessly (even for my TNT2 M64 which is notorious for problems). This is a huge improvement from 7.x, under which I could never get an NVidia card to work right.

    SuSE (and other distros) sadly lack an easy way to share a directory under SAMBA. There are a few utilities to browse windows shares and mount them, but nothing to create a share with a GUI. I can't believe I've been mucking around with samba.conf since 5.X! Having it built into Konqueror would be great, but I dream. Has anyone found GUI tools for SAMBA that work well?

    By the way, SuSE can't use the SMB Python library, so the killer SAMBA Python GUI isn't possible under SuSE. Such a bummer, because there already is a great tool written under Python. I don't remember the name off the top of my head though.

    • Re:NVidia and SAMBA (Score:4, Informative)

      by agentZ ( 210674 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:51PM (#5853518)
      There are several SAMBA GUIs listed on the Samba web site: http://samba.org/samba/GUI/ [samba.org]

    • Re:NVidia and SAMBA (Score:3, Informative)

      by p.rican ( 643452 )
      I've never had a problem setting up samba using CLI but if you're definitely only interested in a GUI setup, try this:
      http://www.webmin.com
      It will also let you perform a lot of other admin type stuff besides SAMBA.
      I had webmin install with no problems on Debian (Woody testing) and Slackware 7.1
    • Xandros' [xandros.com] File Manager makes this very easy. Xandros has the best Samba setup and usage I've ever seen. It just works out of the box. I know we're talking another distribution other than SuSE, but still it's worth a mention.
    • SuSE (and other distros) sadly lack an easy way to share a directory under SAMBA.

      Red Hat 9 comes with an new Samba configuration tool (GTK2 based, like all redhat-*-config" tools). It's very spartan, but it works quite well and setting up a share takes only a few clicks. It'll also create users, set passwords and manage the samba deamon itself. You can probably rebuild the SRPM for SuSE without any trouble.
    • Do you mean like this? [kde.com]

      Behold, he is the Quizat Haderac

  • Updates are much better (Score:5, Informative)

    by jonfelder ( 669529 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:49PM (#5853497)
    I think one of the biggest improvmenets with SuSE 8.2 are the online updates. While they still download rather slowly, they actually work now.

    With 8.1 the online updater always locked up or didn't complete. It only seemed to work if you mirrored the updates locally and then directed online update to run from your lan.
    • Things started to go wrong with the Online Update in 8.0, then got much worse in 8.1. Bad enough for me to switch to Red Hat. Now, Red Hat will have do something really bad for me to bother switching back.

      I really tried to work with SuSE on the updates last year, but they ignored me. I think they lost a lot of customers because of it.

      One of the value added features distros can bring to the table is fast and reliable security updates. If you can't get the updates, you're dead. And this is the one piec

  • available for $3 (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:51PM (#5853515)
    It's available for $3from budgetlinuxcds.com
    • But only the 1 CD evaluation version. Selling a copy of the full product for money is illegal!

    • Re:available for $3 (Score:5, Informative)

      by sangfroid ( 63845 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @02:43PM (#5854838)
      Unfortunately, budgetlinuxcds.com is selling the live evaluation disc, not the full distribution.

      SuSE offers a live-evaluation disc image for free here [suse.com]. It's not a complete install but it'll give you an idea of what SuSE's all about.

      You are allowed to do a full install via ftp (see instructions here [suse.com]). Sure it's not as easy but an FTP install will build some more of that character I'm always hearing about.

      I have to say though, YaST is probably the best thing I've seen so far for a Migrating Windows User. It is powerful, flexible, and intuitive for anyone used to Control Panels. SuSE also automatically does some intelligent things like password protect single-user mode (unlike RedHat). IMHO, it's the best new user distribution. Sure, I use Gentoo on my machine but then I'm captivated by watching packages compile for 72 hours straight. -grin-

  • More reviews (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gmuslera ( 3436 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:54PM (#5853544) Homepage Journal
    In OSNews [osnews.com] there is also a good review of SuSE 8.2 for a desktop user, comparing it with Redhat 9.

    In the other hand, in Linux and Main [linuxandmain.com] they have a mostly negative review.

    But, at least for me, it installed without problems in the systems I tried, and it looks more mature than 8.1, is not just a package versions upgrade.

    • Well,

      I guess the problem he has is the serial mouse on Port one. I wouldn't be surprised if YAST2 thought it was a mouse, but for what reason that thing waited for a response for over 90 minutes is beyond me.

      I had similar problems in old versions of Windows (when I still used windows) during modem installation.
    • > In the other hand, in Linux and Main [linuxandmain.com] they have a mostly negative review.

      This is an article about a specific installation problem. The real Linux and Main SuSE 8.2 Pro Review [linuxandmain.com] ends with "But again, once it's up and running, SuSE 8.2 Professional is great."
  • I don't know how good it is, because they don't let you download ISOs. Simply put, if I (as a user and home user) can't test them, and play, they're never ever going to be bought, and used on my servers at work. Sorry guys, but that's the way it is. You've got to let people try stuff out before they buy. And I don't mean some boot-from-CD-run-in-RAM-thing. If people weren't familiar with MS from using it at home, it'd have a lot less market share in the workplace.

    • Re:No ISOs, no testing, no install. (Score:5, Informative)

      by mao che minh ( 611166 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:13PM (#5853708) Journal
      The FTP install is free:

      Suse FTP install [suse.com]

      It is not as nice as having an ISO available, but I haven't installed *BSD from a CD in ages, and I hear Suse's FTP install is even easier and more reliable.

    • You can check out the live eval [surfnet.nl]. I haven't tested it and it's probably not nearly as useful as knoppix, but I should give an impression of SuSE.

    • Re:No ISOs, no testing, no install. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by barnaclebarnes ( 85340 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:44PM (#5854040) Homepage
      ...and used on my servers at work.

      Someone should tell your boss because that is not how informed decisions are made about what software to install.

      /b

    • ISO's are a stupid waste of bandwidth. FTP installs are far more elegant. ISO's just make kiddie users feel elite because they get to download a huge file on their cablemodems or work connections, then burn a CD at 32x speed. They also contribute to distro collecting where some moron has a wallet full of turbolinux, yellow dog linux, and other stuff he'll never, ever install.
      • ISO's are a stupid waste of bandwidth. FTP installs are far more elegant.

        Not for those of us with only one computer. FTP is fine if you have another machine to mirror the tree to, but otherwise your only machine is tied up for god knows how long in an installer. Hmm maybe one of the distros should put in a web browser like you get in a Solaris install...then at least you can stay entertained.

        The benefit to ISOs for people like me (living off a laptop at the moment) is that you just need to download o

    • Thank goodness the folks on the Warez scene were able to help Microsoft with this. Otherwise, Microsoft would have never made it.

    • You can get the CDs / DVD from sources other than SuSE. Burnt discs are being auctioned / sold all the time. I paid $30 (that includes fast shipping) to get my 8.2 Pro discs, and it was money very well spent.

      I run a consulting business, and I have at least one client who is looking to migrate servers and desktops to Linux in 6 - 12 months. SuSE will be my distro of choice when that time comes.

  • SuSE 8.2 freezes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by oever ( 233119 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @12:59PM (#5853589) Homepage
    SuSE is losing more and more credit with me. I bought the SuSE 8.2 Professional upgrade and installed it on a Compaq Presario 1714EA. Result: the machine freezes after about 5 minutes of use! There a few boot options one can try in such a case, e.g. acpi=off. But none of these work.

    Right now I'm communicating with the helpdesk and this is no big pleasure either. After my initial mail, I received the advice to reinstall the system with the safe settings (a boot menu option). I had already done this, since the normal settings wouldn't boot.

    After saying that I'd already installed with safe settings, I was told that reinstalling really would help. So I did this and it (of course) didn't help.

    The next idea the helpdesk had was to ask me to give them a list of the hardware in my computer (this list is also sent to SuSE when doing a support query, but apparently, they lost it). I provided the list and the next day I got an email asking me to check the computers memory and use a special boot option. The memory's ok and the boot option didn't work, so I'm now waiting for their next question.

    However, when SuSE is installed, it runs quite well. But many applications are missing and a lot of hardware is not recognized, e.g. my pcmcia network card.

    The new update checker is convenient but very buggy! It crashes a lot and after updating, the checker's icon still signals you to update.

    So, in conclusion, I can say that I'll continue using SuSE (on the machine on which it does not freeze), at least until the end of the support period.

    If you think SuSE is a nice distro for newbies: forget it. It takes ages until you've got it running smoothly. Once it works, it works, but it's not much different from any other disto. The install's horrible.

    • Re:SuSE 8.2 freezes (Score:4, Informative)

      by ElGuapoGolf ( 600734 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:02PM (#5853614) Homepage
      Try adding disableapic to your boot options.

    • Well, like the other posters have said, it could be a kernel or graphics problem.

      Try booting into runlevel 3 and see if that helps.

      I'll also throw another theory out there.. Do you, by chance, have a VIA IDE chipset? If you do, you probably know they're really, REALLY buggy but you can work around that. Anyhow, if you do have a via chipset, how do you have your system configured (drives-wise)?

    • Which other distros run fine on your hardware?

      Actually I always considered SuSE's installer one of the best. Sorry you're having problems.

    • I'm too lazy to look up which CPU is in the Compaq 1714EA but have you tried recompiling the kernel optimized for your CPU? I had a similar lock-up problem with an ancient K6-300 that went away by simply recompiling the kernel ... ok ... so the compile took a few hours, eh, big deal!
  • michael says: "Wow, the Register can actually be nice?"

    Thank goodness we can rely upon you to pick up the slack, though.

  • sorry for the shameless plug. Linux Screws [linux-screws.com] is about to launch. SuSE 8.2 will be available there for 9.95 plus shipping. this will be the full version, not the live eval, because with all of the distributions they provide, the customer will actually only be paying for a computer screw. The linux distribution would be provided free of charge.
    • They offer installed systems or for this 9.95 they will ship the SuSE CDs? because if this is the CDs I think that is against the license. You can install it from the ftp server, have they consent to have a mirror of the distribution, install it in as many computers you want, but distributing copies of the CDs is just the main limitation of the license.

      I know that is not good, but if someone complains, I just point that you can download/burn/install mandrake, redhat and more distributions CD images, if so

    • Will this be made from the FTP version? Because otherwise you cannot charge anything for SuSE 8.2 because of the licensing of the Yast tools, unless you have permission first from SuSE.

  • Linux Newbie (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Infernon ( 460398 ) <infernon AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:09PM (#5853667)
    I'm a linux newbie. I've been using Windows for years. That being said...
    I went out and picked up SuSE 8.2 last week and installed it under VMWare and I love it (despite the fact that I can't get VMWare tools to install!). I think that KDE 3.1 kicks the living snot out of Windows, period. I would even propose that my mother could use it without a problem.
    As the article said, the installation was flawless and it picked up the virtual NIC automatically. I didn't encounter one problem (except as noted above) and I found that I started running the VM fullscreen despite the low resolution because I just enjoyed working with it.
    I'm not ready to get involved on a command-line level as of yet and probably won't until I finish my MCSE (please don't flame me!), but it's definitely a tight package compared to other Linux installs that I've played with before.
    Sadly, Linux doesn't seem to have much support for games and it's really the only reason that I haven't dumped Windows from my main machine and taken the plunge. I know that everyone talks a good deal about WINE, but I've heard that there are problems with it.
    Oh well, just my two cents...
    • A copy of SuSE - $50
      A second 20 gig Hard Drive - ~$75
      Being able to switch OSes with a simple reboot - Priceless

      There are something money can't buy. For everything else, there is larger storage.

    • You don't really need Windoze for MCSE. Linux has a whole host of Minesweeper-like games and even Solitaire games. You can get up to advanced skill with either/both in linux and never see a Windoze desktop!

  • The SuSE web site listed "improved wireless LAN support" as one of the selling points of 8.2. Can anyone comment on what this means exactly? I've turned up nothing in anything I've read about this version, in any reviews, or even the comments here so far. I've had a hell of a time installing wireless LAN drivers (the wlan drivers) for my Linksys WUSB12 and have never managed to get it to work with either Mandrake or Red Hat. Does SuSE come with the full suite of wlan drivers (including USB) pre-installe

  • OK, so maybe I'll give this "Linux" thing a try (Score:3, Interesting)

    by larsoncc ( 461660 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:38PM (#5853952) Homepage
    Well, while I was in my hippie college days (4 years ago?), I actually tried Linux (SuSE, actually). I thought it was kind of cool, but somewhat difficult to set up. It didn't support anything.

    Now, I know this post might be a Karma burn, but what the hell. I don't post too much on Slashdot anyway. I just thought I'd ask for some opinions here.

    I am a Windows developer in a Windows world. for the most part, I've really liked it (see, told you it was a Karma burn). I haven't found much that I hate about Windows at all. And I'm not the type of guy to invent reasons to hate an operating system (come on guys, life is too short for that!). I don't think I could ever use the term "M$" without slapping myself silly.

    I've used other OSes, but I've never switched. Just hasn't been practical.

    My income is currently tied to Windows. While somewhat "plain", I have enjoyed the Windows interface.

    So, I guess the question here is... Is it time to try Linux again? What's different now? Slashdot seems to trumpet the arrival of even the most minor Linux upgrade.... Is this different?

    Can I install Linux and be productive in less than 5 hours? Can I insert a CD and have the install routine work? Are there any games yet?

    Here's a newbie (and odd!) question for you: Can I develop Windows applications from within Linux now? Or at least run VS or VS.NET?

    Just wondering. Hope it wasn't too terrible a sin to post this...
    • Yes you can develop and compile windows apps under linux. I don't know which free compilers will do it, but I've used Kylix [borland.com] with success. Can anyone else point out GPL or free compilers that do the same?

    • Re:OK, so maybe I'll give this "Linux" thing a try (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ElGuapoGolf ( 600734 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:48PM (#5854089) Homepage

      Well, the install takes about a half hour. Maybe more, maybe less, depends on your hardware. This will install the OS, OpenOffice.org's office suite, multimedia stuff, etc. If you want a DVD player, thanks to our friend the DMCA, you'll have to go grab some rpm's and install them, about 5 minutes of your time.

      Installing a copy of Tribes 2 or UT2003 will take a few minutes. There are other games. Does that answer the gaming question?

      Of course, you'll want to install other stuff, and whatnot. Roughly setting up, timewise, is going to be a little less than setting up with windows. //Rant
      Now, as a developer, who's done both Win and *nix development, you couldn't really find any way to put a nice spin on Windows development. And, by development, I'm not talking about writing some cute little VB database front ends.

      I'm talking about writing backend stuff. Data handling stuff. Servers. Things where windows just doesn't do well. Need to share objects? COM? Who came up with that horrible idea. regsvr32? WTF is up with that? //End Rant

    • Don't Bother (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tony ( 765 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:57PM (#5854204) Journal
      The truth is, if you see no reason to switch to Linux, then you probably shouldn't. If you like your current environment, and don't feel a political, philosophical, or technical imperative to switch, don't.

      There are many reasons to switch to Linux; the protection of our future rights and freedoms is not least (philosophical and political imperatives). Linux is more stable than XP in my experience, but not by that much (technical). MS-Windows still has all the games, though. (Although, I have to say: I would rather play a game on my PS2 than on my computer.)

      Linux installs within about an hour. You should be productive within a couple of hours after that, but you will spend the next 20 years learning. (Of course, you better spend the next 20 years learning no matter what system you choose.)

      If you want to develop MS-Windows programs, for God's sake, man, use MS-Windows! Don't drive yourself crazy trying to do some devilishly-complicated scheme, when the simple solution is, well, simple.

      I believe it is dangerous to support Microsoft in any way. Their history has shown they will destroy any emergent technology simply to retain a lock on "innovation." If you are doing anything remotely interesting, they are likely to either buy you up (good for you), or kill you (bad for you). Either way, you benefit Microsoft more than yourself.

      I also believe you are giving up your rights by using Microsoft products. Their EULA are becoming draconian; at some poing, you will have no rights at all.

      Linux brings back the fun in computing, both at the systems level, and at the development level. I haven't had so much fun with a system since the old Apple ][ days. Of course, I've been using Linux for almost 10 years now, so it's been a long fun jag.

      If these arguments do not appeal to you, then you probably have nothing to gain by moving to Linux. Stick with what you have. Don't kill yourself by attempting a switch.

      However, if you'd like to see what the fun is all about, pull out an old PII computer and install away. Play with it, integrate it with your home network, start exploring the things that interest you. You can have the best of both worlds, you know. It's not an either/or proposition.

      But, no matter what you do, have fun. Keep one eye on the future, but don't let yourself become blind to the present: have extreme amounts of fun.

      After all, that's what life is all about.
      • Wow. Best post ever. :)
        Well said.

      • Re:Don't Bother (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Dunkirk ( 238653 ) <david@NoSPAm.davidkrider.com> on Thursday May 01, 2003 @04:28PM (#5856144) Homepage
        I also believe you are giving up your rights by using Microsoft products. Their EULA are becoming draconian; at some poing, you will have no rights at all.


        Have you read Red Hat's service agreements for the new "Enterprise" line? It'll shock you. They're not much different any more. We just printed ours out yesterday to read the fine print.

        Don't believe me? How about, by agreeing, you give Red Hat the right to walk into your building at take stock of all your software. How's that for "Microsoft-like?"

        We're going to be cancelling our contract. Which, by the way, you MUST do in writing, 60 days before the end, or you WILL be held accountable for another year's worth of your agreement. How's that for "IBM-like?"

        The lines are getting fuzzier these days, fellow geeks. Please vote with your dollars. I'm not against Linux companies making money, but when a company changes your terms IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TERM, then there needs to be some karmic retribution.

  • Don't forget apt! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Thursday May 01, 2003 @01:43PM (#5854018)
    There's an apt repository [linux01.gwdg.de] for SuSE 8.2.

    • I use APT with SuSE and have found it to be excellent (although I can't compare it with other rpm distros that have apt-repositories).

      I haven't used YaST to update since I installed APT4RPM [sourceforge.net], I get newer versions of important packages like Mozilla and KDE, I can update via a cron job and I dist-upgraded from 8.0 to 8.1 solely with APT, I also plan to upgrade from 8.1 to 8.2 this weekend or the next.

      I've experienced very few problems using APT, although I imagine Debian's packaging works better with APT s

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