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Debian Software Entertainment Games Linux

BlackRhino Linux Now Available for PlayStation 2 233

Posted by michael from the charging-penguins dept.
Mr. Spock writes "BlackRhino Linux has been released for the PlayStation 2. It's developed independently by xRhino, a middleware developer. Check out the details and download instructions on the official website. A Playstation 2 Linux kit is required to use BlackRhino."
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BlackRhino Linux Now Available for PlayStation 2 More

BlackRhino Linux Now Available for PlayStation 2

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  • Slashdotted - Here's the FAQ (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @03:54PM (#5435829)

    What is BlackRhino GNU/Linux?
    BlackRhino is a free Debian-based GNU/Linux software distribution for the Sony PlayStation 2. It contains over 1,200 software packages to aid in using and creating programs for the Sony PlayStation 2 Linux kit. The programs range in functionality from simple games, to text editors, compilers, web servers, windowing systems, database systems, graphics packages, mail servers and a variety of other tools and utilities.

    Why was BlackRhino developed?
    Initially, BlackRhino was created by xRhino in an effort to bring a commercial Debian-based GNU/Linux distribution to the Sony PlayStation 2 for hobbyists and developers alike. As events unfolded, BlackRhino became useful in other ways and it was finally apparent that a public release should be made. For more information, see the project history.

    What are BlackRhino's vital statistics?

    Package Count Breakdown by Section:
    admin: 49
    base: 55
    comm: 9
    deprecated: 94
    devel: 258
    doc: 49
    editors: 31
    games: 8
    graphics: 40
    interpreters: 106
    libs: 169
    mail: 21
    main: 6
    math: 6
    misc: 8
    net: 95
    oldlibs: 7
    otherosfs: 11
    shells: 9
    sound: 57
    tex: 17
    text: 50
    utils: 46
    web: 14
    x11: 73
    Package Count Total: 1,292
    Total Size: 1.2 Gigabytes

    Help! BlackRhino doesn't have a package I need!
    Then you should consider becoming a package maintainer and submitting that package!

    How may I contribute?
    There are plenty of ways! To name a few...

    Become a package maintainer and submit new packages (or maintain existing ones).
    Generate discussion on the BlackRhino listserv.
    Generate discussion on the BlackRhino forums.
    Provide a repository mirror.
    If you have other ideas, please feel free to contact xRhino.

    What is a package maintainer?
    The person who is responsible for maintaining a package. This can entail initial package creation from software source, keeping the package up-to-date with the latest software version, testing the package contents and verifying correct interaction with the BlackRhino system, and releasing an updated package into the official BlackRhino repository. For more information on the Debian packaging system (which BlackRhino uses), have a look at their FAQ.

    How do I submit new packages?
    There is no automated way of submitting packages at this time, so a small submission proposal must be sent to xRhino. Once the proposal is approved, binary and source packages will be accepted and added to the official repository.

    May I provide a repository mirror?
    Absolutely! We're always happy to give BlackRhino higher availability. Contact xRhino and all the arrangements will be made.

  • Games!!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by $$$$$exyGal ( 638164 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @03:56PM (#5435849) Homepage Journal
    The programs range in functionality from simple games ...

    AWESOME!!! Now I can finally play games on my PS2!!!

  • questions about PS2 linux (Score:4, Interesting)

    by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @03:57PM (#5435858) Journal
    First off, where the hell do you get it from?

    And I'm wondering about this:
    "NOTE: Linux Kit (for PlayStation 2) is a tool for Linux enthusiasts and programmers only. It will NOT enhance your PlayStation 2 games. The hard disk drive formatted for Linux cannot be used with HDD-compatible PlayStation 2 games."

    So can you still play games? If you wanted to play a HDD compatible game (if one existed) would you have to switch HDDs?

    And whats the deal with the requirements?
    "REQUIRES A PLAYSTATION 2 SYSTEM, VGA MONITOR [WITH SYNC-ON-GREEN CAPABILITY] AND MEMORY CARD (8MB) (FOR PLAYSTATI0N 2) [DEDICATED TO LINUX KIT USE], ALL SOLD SEPARATELY."

    1st off, why cant I use the TV as a display? And what is an 8 meg memory card needed for if it comes with a 40 gig HDD?

    • Re:questions about PS2 linux (Score:5, Informative)

      by zhar ( 533174 ) <mike.goldtwo@net> on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:02PM (#5435900) Homepage Journal
      You can still play games on your PlayStation 2, and you would have to switch HDDs if you wanted to play a HDD compatable game. None are yet availible however. The VGA moniter with Sync-on-green is need for the install, and you can use a tv as the display, but it's low resolution will not look pretty and you will have to do the install "blind". The 8Meg memory card is needed to contain the boot up info and Playstation configuration. If you already have one, look at it under the sony memory card manager. You should see a file that has Playstation 2 configuration info in it.

    • Re:questions about PS2 linux (Score:5, Informative)

      by cide1 ( 126814 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:03PM (#5435910) Homepage
      Yes you can still play games. If a second harddrive was ever released, you might have to switch, but not neccessarily. Once installed, you can use a TV as the display. The memory card is needed to bootstrap the machine. They arent trying to screw you here, what you see is what you get. I bought it about a year ago, and am pretty happy. However, the first distro was Redhat 5.2 based, which sucked. This should give a big boost to the community, as a modern set of libraries makes it sooooo much easier to port applications.

    • You can actually use a TV as the display... its a simple change in one of the boot scripts.

      Unfortunately, Sony decided that it would confuse consumers too much to allow the PS2 Linux kit to be compatible with games... there are also a number of technical reasons this wasn't done. Sorry, you can only use the PS2 Linux kit to run Linux. The kit is provided mostly so hobbyist game programmers can get some real experience programming games on real game hardware.

      Its also gives some people a kick to run a web server off of their PlayStation 2.

      -- manu
      • But

        WHERE DO I GET IT?

        I'm serious. I went to my local indie game shop who can always procure the rarest and most obscure games on a weeks notice (they carry GP32 and Wonderswan fer cryin out loud), and asked about the PS2 linux kit, and they looked at me like I had a booger in my nose.

        In retrospect, I may well have had a booger in my nose.

        You have a link from a site to order this thing from for a US PS2?
      • Seems like an awful lot of trouble to run Linux. And the Linux Kit costs $199.00!!! You can get a
        whole computer system at WALMART pre-installed with Lindows for about $50.00 more (a playstation 2 alone costs $200.00, and I have to buy a monitor!?). Why would I want to screw with my Playstation 2 to turn it into a Linux system that needs me to port applications -- obviously this is just for a hobbyist with time and money to burn.... a little TOO geeky for me...
      • The HDD is incompatible with games, however your PlayStation(r) 2 can still play games just fine. Just wanted to make sure people don't get the wrong idea. Also, it turns out that it is possible to boot your kit the first time on a TV, you just have to hold the appropriate keys down on your DualShock controller at boot time. Check out the faq [playstation2-linux.com].

        I still recommend a monitor though. TVs aren't the greatest when it comes to reading text.

        -Adam Bertsch
        Sr. Systems Administrator
        Sony Computer Entertainment America
    • My girlfriend ordered my copy from sony's site. Playsation2.com.

      No HDD compatible games on PS2. The HDD won't work with them, says Sony.

      Games work just fine, you put a different DVD in and swap memory cards and play your games.

      You can use the TV but you need a VGA monitor to install it.

      The memory card is needed to load the kernel in to RAM. It's like a BIOS on a PC. You need code that can read the drive in memory and running before you can read the drive.

    • Here's the Offical Site [playstation2-linux.com].

      As for the system requirements, you can use a TV, but you need a sync-on-green monitor to initially install linux (why, i'm not sure, but the website has a list of tested monitors). You can also find instructions for a "blind" install, that will guide you through the various keystrokes of installing and changing the boot configuration file to TV mode. The most obvious advantage to having a sync-on-green monitor is the higher screen resolutions and refresh rates - a TV just doesn't cut it.

      The 8MB memory card stores the linux kernel. Sony's Linux distribution (redhat based) comes on two PS2 DVD's. In order to boot into Linux, you need the PS2 DVD which loads as a game would on the PS2. The DVD has a boot menu on it, which loads the kernel from the memory card into memory. Then it detects the hard drive, network adapter, etc.. and begins the boot process.

      There's a ton of information on sony's site, as well as very informative discussion groups. I've had mine for almost a year now, and have had a ton of fun with it. The requirements have discouraged alot of people from getting one, but to be honest, they are worth the burden. Sony's willingness to open up the PS2 to developers is truly awesome -- there still hasn't been a game written (or ported) that makes use of the PS2's graphics power.

  • So you need the Linux kit to use this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by N0decam ( 630188 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @03:59PM (#5435875) Homepage
    Let me get this straight - I need the linux kit to run this linux distro?

    Wake me up when there's a bootable DVD distro that doesn't require any additional hardware.

    Back in my day all we had for input devices were dual shock controllers :P
    • you will be waiting a long while then im sorry to say. you cant boot anythign unless its official sony software or you are using a modchip, but then again that would fall under the "additional hardware" category.
    • Exactly, the internal port of the PS2 is PCMCIA based (IIRC), it has two USB ports and firewire (all standard stuff) . Why then do we need all this custom stuff to run an OS? Answer: more cash for Sony.
      • Yeah. That was a major bummer when I found that out.

        I bought a PS2 network adapter to play THPS4. It has an IDE connector, so i plugged a spare drive on it. The drive does nothing, but whatever.

        So the sony linux kit comes with a network adapter, a 40G hard drive, a keyboard, mouse, and the all important magical sony linux dvd. All for $200. (oh yeah, and the PS2 linux claims to ONLY work on the HD it comes with, for some reason).

        But I already have the network adapter, a HD, keyboard, and mouse. So if I want to run linux, I'm effectively paying $200 for GNU software. I don't quite understand how that works within the GPL. Please explain it to me.

        Anyhow I can't bring myself to spend $200 for a bunch of hardware I don't need, so I won't be running linux on my PS2 anytime soon.
        • But I already have the network adapter, a HD, keyboard, and mouse. So if I want to run linux, I'm effectively paying $200 for GNU software. I don't quite understand how that works within the GPL. Please explain it to me.

          The GPL only claims that the software is free. You can make copies of this software and distribute them (the GPL parts anyway). You can run the software on whatever it'll work on, be it a PS2 or a PS2 emulator if one existed. Now as I understand Sony's Linux distro has some proprietary components such as the runtime environment and system manuals. This is where Sony gets you. They also have a EULA that places some restrictions on the distribution of software you develop. Seems like with BlackRhino you shouldn't be restricted, as the EULA should not apply to the hardware.

          Anyhow I can't bring myself to spend $200 for a bunch of hardware I don't need, so I won't be running linux on my PS2 anytime soon.

          Yeah, everyone I talked to who has Sony's Linux kit said that it was a waste of money. I've toyed around with Dreamcast Linux, though. That is kinda nice and didn't cost as much for the necessary hardware and the software is free as in beer and speech.
        • Exactly, how much is a PS2+kit? got to be more than the cost of building a Mini-ITX system.

          Why Mini-ITX I hear you say? well the hardware in a Mini-ITX system is a bit slow compared with a faster PC and so is a PS2. Ok the PS2 does DVD, but stick a H+ in there and you're sorted.
      • The japanese PS2 uses a pcmcia port and an external hard drive. The American version is a edge connector similar to the ones used in the drive bays on laptops. I wonder if someone will port Knoppix [knoppix.net] over to the PS2 maybe get it running with a mod chip ? :) Knoppix is debian based too.
    • Well, it does sort of help to have the hard drive interface. If you look at an official PS2 network adapter, you'll notice there's already an IDE and power connector on the back of it, ready to attach a hard drive to. The only other things missing are a mounting frame/rails for the hard drive, and the Linux disc itself.

      The real question should be: is there any way to get this to work with the network adapter and a generic hard drive, but WITHOUT Sony's Linux disc?

      • For kicks I plugged a spare HD I had lying around into the network adapter. It does spin up, and the little green light goes on when the network adapter gets activated, but the only thing its doing right now, probably, is contriubuting to the noise and heat coming from the PS2.
    • As in understand it the "Linux kit" includes the hard drive and ethernet card. Even if you could boot it to Linux without a drive and NIC, it would be more or less useless - except for the coolness factor of seeing an X desktop of some form on your TV.

      Considering what you want, me thinks you'll be sleeping for quite some time.

    • "Wake me up when there's a bootable DVD distro that doesn't require any additional hardware. "

      Wake me up when there's a reason to even boot into Linux on the PS2. At least the XBOX has a hard drive and an ethernet port, I suppose something interesting could be done then.
    • What I would like to see is a CD/DVD based PS2 Linux distro that does *NOT* require the PS2 Linux kit nor the HDD. It could be manufactured as an official ps2 "game" a la GameShark or it could be burned by end-users and booted by means of hardware modification (for copied^H^H^H^H^H^H homebrew apps only of course). How this could be done: 1) Linux cd/dvd boots like a normal ps2 game 2) Autodetects sony broadband adaptor / usb ethernet device 3) DHCP to get network up and running, if no DHCP fall back to 192.168.1.210 or something crazy like that 4) NFS mount from another box on your LAN for file space ie /mnt/computer1 5) Basic config files stored on a ramdisk (memcard). /etc/memcard/ for instance 6) Have ssh, basic user account, etc setup on boot. This would allow for a diskless based PS2 linux distro. Some work would have to be done to intelligently map replaced files from the DVD to an NFS mount, maybe a custom filesystem with some intelligence. New kernels could be stored on the memcard, 8megs of space is alot to play with if your only storing a kernel+some config files+a remote file mapping table IMHO. Anyone up for this project?? :)
  • A Playstation 2 Linux kit is required to use BlackRhino

    Finally the wide based and easy to use system that will unlease the power of linux on the masses!
  • I don't trust any distro that could be KO'd by Mike Tyson in 49 seconds [dailyworld.com].

    Mike Tyson just destroyed Clifford "Black Rhino" Etienne about a week ago, ya see.)

    "I got nothin against Linux....but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of its child processes."

  • So... does it come with GNU/Bird, that little app that cleans up useless files and empties logs?

  • Or... (Score:4, Informative)

    by swasson ( 639367 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:04PM (#5435916) Homepage
    I could go down to Wal-Mart, slap $300 down on the counter, get one of those generic PCs (loved by /.'ers everywhere) and stick linux on that!

    • Since when can you buy Lindows/Non-OS cheapo PCs in the Walmart store? I thought they were only available online?

      Chris
      • I think Walmart was Lindows's first retail outlet. search slashdot for "walmart" and "lindows" and you'll probably find the announcement.
    • of coarse you dont get the thrill of running linux on an alternative archetecture, or as the kit is meant to me used by, progarmming your own software on a REAL console. Its not to be used in the way of a replacement pc. Not to mention at the same time your solution would be Larger, Lacking features (like tv-out) and on the side would play games slower than the ps2 would (if you like playing games) :)
    • $200 dollars for a Lindows PC at Wal-Mart. Not $300.
    • Anytime someone gets Linux to run on something different or someone converts a game system there's always a "what's the point" comment. I think we've covered the reasons for this already, so please go back and check the comments for "X-Box cluster", etc. Of course, it's possible that people know this and they are just trolling.
  • Now I don't want to hear any more complaints about linux not being a viable gamers system. This doesn't count as dual booting because...um....dang.
  • Is there any way of a DIY ps2 Linux Kit, there not worth there price if ya ask me.

  • Nice, but.... (Score:3, Redundant)

    by creative_name ( 459764 ) <pauls AT ou DOT edu> on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:06PM (#5435941)
    This is certainly fun/interesting/cool etc. but I don't really see the point of putting Linux on your PS2 - other than to say you did it. I bought the PS2 to play PS2 games, if I want to run Linux I'll scoot over to my PC.

    Don't get me wrong, 'yay' for doing things for the hell of it, but what's the point of this past that?

    • Re:Nice, but.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:13PM (#5435995) Journal
      >> but what's the point of this past that?

      You're a coder with an interest in running code against PS2 hardware, or anything other than an x86 for that matter.

      It's neat to write some code and get it running on a Sega Genesis, Gameboy, SNES, TG16, or whatever.

      This is the first time you've been officially sanctioned by the merciful corporate gods to be able to do so.

    • Why? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because you get all but one of the developers manuals, and can access all the hardware in basically the same way as games do. Which could be real handy if you want a job in ps2 game development.
    • You can use it to develop PS2 programs, not just play them.

    • Re:Nice, but.... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Slurpee ( 4012 ) on Wednesday March 05, 2003 @12:46AM (#5438727) Homepage Journal
      Don't get me wrong, 'yay' for doing things for the hell of it, but what's the point of this past that?

      Simple. I'm a developer who works with set top boxes and interactive TV. We wanted to do a proof of concept using the PS2 as a STB (Set Top Box). The POC would do things like digital TV, VOD (Video On Demand), and Interactive TV.

      A Sony PS2 Dev kit will cost you $100,000 USD. A Sony Linux Kit will cost you $150. You also can't get a dev kit unless your work has been "OKed" by Sony in Japan. They will OK games work....but will rarely other stuff....certainly without lots of negotiation etc.

      So we bought 5 ps2s and Linux kits. Sure, we missed out on a lot of sampe code, dev help, and all sorts of stuff, Inside of 6 months our dev team had a working POC. Digital TV (off cable/Sat), VOD, games downloads, as well as some sorts of iTV. I'm sure we could have done it in 4 months if we had Sony support...but it would have taken 6 months just to get the OK (in fact, we are still waiting for it). Sony (and others) loved our demos. Talked big time the possibilities. Lots of talk. No action.

      Anyway, 4 days ago our project was buried as our company has decided that Cable TV ain't their core buisness.

      Our code is now rotting away in CVS, never to see the light of day. And it was cool stuff. Such is life.

  • Ahh, so that's why... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rograndom ( 112079 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:20PM (#5436066) Homepage
    Here I am surfing around looking for stuff to do with my PS network adapter. I come across the Linux for Playstation 2 site, but none of the other pages on that site will load. Database errors and all that. "Well somebody needs to fix their site." i thought. Well off to Google to find some other sites. What do I see at the top of the search results?

    News: BlackRhino Linux Now Available for PlayStation 2 - Slashdot - 4 minutes ago

    Well, that explains it.

  • Projects? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by c3rb ( 655107 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:22PM (#5436086)
    I'm curious as to what kinds of projects people might use this (or any flavor of linux on a PS2) for. The only practical thing I can think of is some kind of a cheap game development platform, but then who is your target audience? Other PS2/Linux owners? What are people using these platforms for? (not a flame, just curious)
    • That is exactly the intended audience to be honest. im not really sure why this is slashdot material becouse the audience is rather small. its for anyone who currently owns the ps2 linux kit, and would rather run debian than a redhat varient on it. very useless for me, but i doubt many people otherwise.

    • Re:Projects? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You open your source. Sony and commercial vendors pick the bones clean of anything worthwhile you wrote.

      Sony sells a linux kit for $200 and MSFT is still the /. villain. It boggles the mind.
      • Most of that $200 is probably for the hardware that the kit comes with: A keyboard, mouse, 40 GB hard drive. Subtract the cost of those out of the total and the remaining cost is roughly on-par with a typical linux distro in a box.

        The only real problem here is that they don't sell those hardware pieces as a kit without the linux distro.
        • Taken from pricewatch - these are retail prices and sony will most likely pay less than half for it.
          $59.00 40.0GB EIDE 5400 RPM
          $07.10 Fujitsu - Keyboards
          $02.00 Generic - Mice
          $16.00 3COM - NEN-Networking Cards
          -
          $84.00 TOTAL
          A S.u.S.E Linux 8.1 Personal for 35 and Professional for 58 from the vendor around the corner.
          I'd buy a modchip instead of that.
          • You are forgetting that for something like SuSE Linux, there are a lot more customers to absorb the up-front cost of getting the distribution together, making sure all the libraries are in place, recompiling every application for the platform, and so on. For PS2, everything needs to be recompiled. x86 binaries won't work, programs that assume x86 won't compile nicely without tweaking, and so on. And there will be fewer buyers to absorb that cost. If I was in the market for a cheap development platform for PS2, I would not mind paying $116.00 for having someone else go through all that effort. (For an individual package it's easy, but I don't want to do it for thousands of packages.)

            They are also recouping the cost of providing the ability to put a hard drive in place, which typical PS2 users never use. (So you are subsidizing the cost of putting the IDE bus in there in the first place, and the USB port for the keyboard, and so on.)

            • My guess would be that the kind of people that want linux on a PS2 would be the kind of people who together wouldn't mind, and probably enjoy, compiling everything for it.

              Sony was just being plain greedy.
    • I could see it being used as PVR/Media player/whatever, since you could use the network capability to stream files from your server with a couple hundred gig of space, and you have DVD, video out, and the ability to wire it into your 5.1 stereo.
    • Just one possibility for non-programmers:

      The PlayStation 2 has a SPDIF digital optical out that could connect to a very nice home theatre system.

      Use Samba to mount your MP3s from your PC.
      Using XMMS, you could play all of your MP3s over your home stereo system in full digital glory.
      The same goes for most Internet Radio [shoutcast.com] stations.

      -- manu

  • why would you want a PS2 Linux Development Kit. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by single_user_mode ( 414420 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:27PM (#5436126)
    i have seen alot of people buying the PS2 Linux Kit as altenative to a linux based PC, sure you can do it but whats the point?

    the reason to play around with a PS2 Linux Development kit is _not_ as an alternative to a PC running Linux. If you want that, go buy a PC. Also, its not really an appropiate setup for learning about 3D graphics, once again a PC is cheaper and easier with DirectX and OpenGL etc.

    what it is appropiate for;

    1. another 'embedded' platform for hardcore kernel hackers to get intimate with the exotic hardware porting etc. These ppl. may find the black xRhino of interest.

    2. the number one reason, is for up and coming game developers to have a better chance getting a foot in the gaming industry. it is a chance to understand and develop for a modern and relevant console...anyone who wants to take it on, should already have a strong grasp of low level C, assembler, 3D graphics etc. for these ppl, the release of the black xrhino is not really so important, as they are already trying to cut the OS out as much as possible ( or using special OS modules eg. SPS2, which open up the hardware to user space) to get as low and and dirty to the hardware as possible.

    • Re:why would you want a PS2 Linux Development Kit. (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Ohh big whoop
      The Dreamcast has both Linux and NetBSD running on it. It has a huge homegrown development scene with tons of support including a freeware development library called KOS.
      Plus you don't need a Linux kit nor mod chip to develop on it or run your own software and you can't beat it's price of $20 ~ $45.

      Some links:

      www.dcemulation.com
      dcdev.allusion.net

      • and you point is?

        as it realtes to the reason i posted for having this kit...

        1. netbsd and linux have been ported...for years now actually...thats not really cutting edge for kernel hackers who want to flex there skills on newish hardware, right?

        2. dreamcast is dead, get over it, move on...if you want to get a foot in the gaming industry, _relevant_ console development experince is what you need... the PS2 Linux development kit offers that + more.
    • This thread as well as the couple surrounding it make great examples of why one would want to use the PlayStation 2 Linux kit. As stated throughout the comments, the PlayStation 2 Linux kit is not for everybody... perhaps I can shed some light on why a developer in the PS2 industry would want to use one.

      I'm one of the guys that put the BlackRhino Linux distribution together and also, one of the founders of xRhino.

      We started the company for the sole purpose of bringing Linux to the PlayStation 2, this was far before we even knew of Sony's PS2 Linux efforts. How great would it be, we thought, for everybody to have access to this incredibly advanced piece of hardware through Linux. As we now know, Sony was thinking the exact same thing.

      A typical PlayStation 2 developer sits at a standard PC, edits his/her PS2 code, compiles it on the PC and then uploads it to a big honkin' machine called a DTL-10000. These big honkin' machines aren't cheap... infact, you could buy a good used car for the price of one of these boxes. Couple that with you have a team of 15 developers and that is a huge amount of up-front investment for a start-up game company... and thats just for the hardware.

      While developing our PS2 commercial application, we were able to use much cheaper PS2 debug units to write, compile and test our code on. Instead of a big honkin' machine that cost the same as a good used car, we spent 1/10th of that on an equally powerful development machine for each developer.

      Coding on the PS2 Linux kit allows a PS2 developer to test out ideas and use pre-built Linux libraries to speed development along without tying up expensive development hardware.

      So, the PS2 Linux kit lets a developer save time during product creation by using cheaper hardware to accomplish the same code, compile, run, debug cycle.

      It also helps the developer in another way, which was our main point with BlackRhino Linux and our PlayStation 2 product. Our commercial product is called RockSteady and it is a MP3 and Internet Radio player for the PlayStation 2. It would play MP3s off of any Samba share on your network, and it would also stream Internet Radio from the web and play it on your home stereo system.

      While developing the product under BlackRhino Linux, we didn't have to worry about writing a networking stack from scratch, or a MP3 decoder, or a scripting engine, or an XML parser, or anything a typical Linux programmer takes for granted. Since we were running Linux, we could use all the development tools available under the open-source sun.

      Linux has one of the most solid networking stacks out there, libmad was our MP3 decoder, Python our scripting language, libxml2 was our xml parser and SDL was used for graphic display. It wasn't nearly as fast as coding natively, but we were able to put a complete application together using about 1/5th of the resources it would have taken to do it the traditional way... and that is the true power of using Linux to do PS2 development, it saves you precious development resources (time and money).

      I thank those of you that have Linux kits for explaining why somebody would want to use one... again, its not for everyone... but it sure is a great little development box.

      -- manu

      • "...I'm one of the guys that put the BlackRhino Linux distribution together and also, one of the founders of xRhino...Our commercial product is called RockSteady and it is a MP3 and Internet Radio player for the PlayStation 2."

        Hmm...xRhino...Rocksteady...me thinks someone is a big Ninja Turtle fan :)

  • Another thing to consider.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by webroach ( 655190 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:28PM (#5436135)
    ...is that this is NOT about the cool things you can do with linux. It's about a tool for people who are interested in learning how to develop games for console systems.

    I agree, if you just like playing games on your PS2 and working with linux in general, then the PS2 linux kit is a HUGE waste of money.

    HOWEVER: For the people out there who would like to someday make a living actually developing games for the PS2, it's a VERY inexpensive way to come really close to Sony's actual Playstation DevKit (last time I looked, the prices for a DTL-10K from Sony was WAAAYYYY more than the price of the linux kit.)

    Remember, it's just a matter of the right tool for the job. If you're coding for AMD, use an AMD system. If you're coding for the PS2.....
    • how about a beowulf cluster of PS2's running GNU/Got Gritsux 4.0 (Natalie).

  • Real coding experience on real console hardware (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:30PM (#5436154)
    The PS2 Linux kit lets an aspiring developer get to grips with the most popular console in the world. The coding experience gained on this kit is in many cases identical to that which you would gain using the T10k pro dev kit. There's some fascinating hardware in there, including the two Vector Units that give the PS2 its power. These are custom parallel vector processors with dual pipelines and can perform four floating-point multiply-adds plus an integer op per cycle.

    There's nowhere you can get your hands on this kind of vector hardware outside of your local supercomputing facility. There's no compiler for these either, so it's asm all the way - a real challenge.

    The kit is available worldwide, online only:

    US [playstation.com]
    Europe, Africa, Middle East [linuxplay.com]
    Japan [ps2linux.com]
    Australia [playstation.com]
    New Zealand [playstation.com]

    • You would be writing a Linux Game then, not a ps2 game.

      If you write a ps2 game, you get to run in super user mode and touch all the hardware. If you write your game on linux. well you wrote it on linux, not ps2. You would run as a user program, and wouldn't get to touch the hardware. Have you ever deved on a console?

      I have [neo-modus.com] if you count GBA as a console.

      • Well, the GBA is just a slightly different animal (I know, I dev for it as well :). On higher-end consoles, the games sometimes run on some sort of rudimentary OS (eg, I thought the Dreamcast used WinCE?). 'course, that doesn't change the fact that you might directly access the hardware anyway, but there's still an OS layer to simplify certain common operations.

        Incidentally, there's no reason a game written to run on Linux for the PS2 couldn't run in root mode and access all the hardware directly.
        • (eg, I thought the Dreamcast used WinCE?).

          IIRC, the DreamCast was actually OS-less. It had enough firmware to boot from the CD. The development kit that could actually talk to the hardware was only ported to WinCE, and one other platform (netBSD I'm reaching for, but not sure) so essentially you were locked into booting your DreamCast into WinCE or the other platform (again, think it was NetBSD).
          • afaik theres two official commercial devkits for dreamcast, sega's own katana and then the wince, the wince stuff is loadad off form the game cd's..
            wince games tend to be slower(/uglier) though..

            i might be wrong too, since i got my dreamcast just few weeks ago(used, dirt cheap, fun homebrewed stuff available, mp3 players & etc, even one that can be used without external display by using the vmu's little lcd for display).
        • I'm not a unix guru but is super user the same as kernal mode? IE, if a program runs as root, does the code actually run in kernal mode without VM and what not? Some how i doubt it, but may very well be wrong.
      • OK Let me explain something to you about linux. Linux has a directory under the root directory called "/dev". In /dev there are a bunch of files called device files. These device files allow user space programs to read, and even sometimes write to these files. But that's not the best part.. see, these device files are "special" files that are letting the info saved into to them to pass into the kernel (waaay oversimplified), which then passes it on to the hardware. It's simply mind blowing.

        But that's not all! That's just one of MANY methods available to let userspace programs use hardware.

    • Re:Real coding experience on real console hardware (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the T10K pro kit is basically upgraded PS2 hardware and an x86 Linux PC in a big box. The Linux kit just combines the two units into one. There are kernel extensions to allow direct hardware access, and indeed direct hardware access is what the pro dev manuals cover. At the same time the linux aspect allows network and hard disk access, and real debugging support.

      Give me the manuals the professionals use any day over some hacked up, incomplete homebrew GBA nonsense...

  • yeah but.... (Score:2, Funny)

    by ludeyork ( 571198 )
    ...can you run linux on it? Oh wait... nevermind.

  • Info on the kit from a user. (Score:5, Informative)

    by chobee ( 555901 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @04:41PM (#5436265)
    The kit is 200.00 usd. What you get. Black usb keyboard, and mouse that say ps2 on it, a 40gb hd, ethernet adapter (ethernet only not ethernet/modem combo). I recently playtested the everquest online game and used the keyboard instead of the game controller to comunicate. I could have used any usb keyboard really. I used the network adaptor that came with the linux kit instead of buying one. So almost all the items you get from the kit can be used in your normal gaming. I'm using the kits ethernet adapter to play SOCOM, atv rage 2, and all of sony's other online stuff. Also the only thing that stops you from using the hd as a hd for your other games is you don't have any utility to partion it and format it. If you friend bought the hd kit and loans you his setup cd your in business. You don't need all 40gb to run linux anyway. So all in all I could have bought the parts seperatly and saved some 50 dollars but wouldn't have been able to play with linux on my ps2. Just cool to play around with. All these add-ons I want for my ps2 plus it runs linux. FYI the additional 8mb memory card is basically the holder for your lilo install. Check out the forums in the /. artical and read all about it. TONS of info there. -Cho

  • hmmm..... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by maniac/dev/null ( 170211 )
    i have the network adapter for ps2, and i noticed it has what looks to be a hard drive connector and power connector. has anyone tried using the regular network adapter to do something like this? i realize i might need to format/install linux on the hard drive before putting it in my ps2, but i'd rather do that than spend some money on a linux kit.
    • You need the Linux kit for the special boot disk that allows you to load a Linux kernel, which must be on a dedicated memory card.

  • *ponder* (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Memory card = teh b00t.

    No memory card = teh sux0r!!!!

    Now, all we need is something like this for 'normal' computers. Insert card to boot machine. If you do not have a card, please attempt to boot the machine, and security will arrive shortly to shoot you repeatedly.

    MmmMmmmm. Physical security.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @05:21PM (#5436565)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Is there some way of booting the PS/2 into Linux without a HD (from DVD or the network)? That way, it might make a decent component of a compute cluster, or one could develop PS2 games in Linux for wide distribution. But a PS2 with the Linux kit just doesn't seem worth it.

  • Usefull... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xchino ( 591175 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @06:50PM (#5437141)
    I had a friend who got the Linux kit for his PS2, instead of buying a walmart PC. I was skeptical of it at first, especially since he knew nothing about Linux or computers in general, and was looking for this to be a cheap first PC (I had a hard time explaining how it wasn't really a PC). I did have to walk him through the install a little, but as soon as he had a desktop he was using it as well as many Windows user's use their desktops. He's since moved on to a real Linux PC as well, as well as moved away from the RedHat based Kondora Linux(that's what the Sony Linux distro is based on) but he still uses Linux on that machine as a desktop.

    The PS2 Linux kit isn't for everybody, but it's not JUST for developers either. If you think you would like it or could use it, then it's probably for you. If you can't think of why anyone would want to Linux on their PS2, then it's probably just not for you.

  • Reasesn to use the PS2 Linux Kit. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Tuesday March 04, 2003 @09:12PM (#5437822) Homepage Journal
    Hi Everyone:

    I've been a PS2 Linux kit owner/user from day 1. Some people think that owning and using this kit is silly unless you're a game developer, but I dismiss those allegations as quite incorrect :).

    I see two excellent uses of the PS2 with Linux installed on it in my home:

    1. The PS2 makes a fantastic media server. With it's digital optical audio out (which can output 48000khz PCM, Dolby Digital, and DTS), and a digital receiver (I have a Denon AVR-1601) and 40GB hard drive, it's a fastastic MP3/Ogg Vorbis audio player (indeed, the build of Ogg Vorbis available through vorbis.com was built by yours truly). Additionally, as it supports NTSC as well as VGA output, it also makes a good video server.
    2. It extends my investment in the PS2 hardware. How many people here own an old console system that is just sitting in a closet somewhere? Game consoles are designed with an approximate 5 years of usefulness as a video game console. There are millions of useless consoles out there in the world, that are relegated to the closet, basement, garage, or dump when a newer, better system comes along.

      When the PS3 comes along, chances are good that, like the PS2, it will be backward compatible. If this is the case, and I buy one, I normally wouldn't have any use for my PS2 anymore. However, with the PS2 Linux kit installed, I can continue to make use of my hardware investment by dedicating the system exclusively to Linux, running network tasks. The system is more than fast enough to act as a mail server, a personal webserver, a file server, or any number of other tasks.

    I initially bought my PS2 for games. But they won't be making PS2 games forever. Linux, OTOH, will be around forever, making the hardware investment more useful for a longer amount of time.

    Yaztromo.

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