

The Age Interviews Linux Advocate Rick Moen 160
An anonymous reader writes "The Age interviews Rick Moen, a software generalist from the Linux community and an advocate for Open Source software." Rick's been a real catalyst for the Linux community over the years, helping organize the LINC Expo, Windows Refund Day, Linux birthday parties, and more. An entertaining read.
Another campaign (Score:1, Funny)
He is mesmerized by open source.
"Linux Advocate" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"Linux Advocate" (Score:2, Funny)
Re:"Linux Advocate" (Score:1)
I don't understand why a "paper" like The Age would interview a guy like this.. and then for
Same question I asked, actually (Score:4, Interesting)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Same question I asked, actually (Score:1)
I wasn't having a go at you personally.. you seem to have your head screwed on and a pretty capable bloke... but it just seems that
meh.. maybe I'm just grumpy cause I hate this time of the year..
Re:Same question I asked, actually (Score:1)
Re:Same question I asked, actually (Score:1)
You are being too modest. The reason why Linux became so popular was not because of some lawsuit, or the Linux Technical Elite producing superior software. It was openness---everbody was welcome---and grassroots support that gave Linux momentum and made it such a success.
You are one of the grassroots hero's that made it happen. Be proud and don't let these Slashdot elite wannabees tell you otherwise.
Re:"Linux Advocate" (Score:2)
He has a one page article about linux and his involvement in some lame Australian online journal. It's not like someone saw "Linux Advocate" and gave him an 8 page in-depth interview and photo-spread in Time or the WSJ.
Re:"Linux Advocate" (Score:1)
Some lame Australian online journal?
The Age [theage.com.au] is a creditable Melbourne newspaper. Not just an online journal. That's not to say that everything they publish is brilliant. Neither do I think Rick Moen is anything special, although he does post regularly to our local LUG (Linux Users of Victoria [luv.asn.au]) so it's not surprising that a local journalist (who's also a member of the LUG) decided to interview him.
A software generalist? (Score:2, Interesting)
I know I can probably look this up on google, but I figure this is as good a place as any to have this question answered.
Re:A software generalist? (Score:3, Informative)
So basically.... um.... he answers email and posts on message boards. A lot like a customer service rep, only with Linux.
like tech support, but without the paycheck (Score:2)
or people modding me down :) (Score:2)
Re:A software generalist? (Score:1)
A journalist, on the other hand, is someone who takes straightforward, uninnovative phrases and puts them in quotes, followed by an appositive with misleading context clues.
not only is this guy an unemployed Linux hero, but (Score:2, Offtopic)
Oh well; guess I won't get an interview for a while.
The "how to get an article on slashdot" list (Score:2, Offtopic)
1) Mention the words "open source."
2) Mention the words "linux advocate."
3) Mention the word "micro$oft". Note that spelling (but not necessarily capitalization) will count in this, and only this, case.
4) Mention Linus' full name. The first name alone may not get your article accepted.
5) Mention how you only boot to Windows when you NEED to. Usually mentioning it in the context of a video game (like Diablo) helps. Mentioning that you buy games from Loki whenever it's possible will help you big time.
6) Use the word "anime."
7) Do not use the phrase "in soviet russia."
8) Do not use the words "Junis" or "Jon Katz."
9) Drop the name of a lesser known Linux distro.
10) Use the phrase "software generalist" or any other newly invented buzzword.
how's this? (Score:2)
Re:Bad experiences with Rick Moen.. (Score:1)
Bloody hell.. you're a mosaicist...
Re:Bad experiences with Rick Moen.. (Score:1)
er.. masochist even..
hmm.. or maybe not..
Frontpage (Score:2)
[Points and laughs]
Stop I can't breathe!
Re:Bad experiences with Rick Moen.. (Score:2)
Try Dreamweaver [macromedia.com] - you'll never go back.
Re:Bad experiences with Rick Moen.. (Score:2)
I've been in Web design since '96 and I've been using Dreamweaver on and off ever since the first public beta became available in '97 or '98, and my experience is that DW in the hands of an amateur won't produce high-quality pages any more than a copy of Photoshop will instantly turn you into a graphic artist if you don't have some knowledge and training as one.
Don't blame the typewriter when the real culprit is more likely to be the monkey who's pounding the leys.
Re:Bad experiences with Rick Moen.. (Score:1, Flamebait)
...FrontPage writes you!
But seriously -- FrontPage sucks dead donkey dicks. (Can you say, "IIS/MSIE only?") No serious site developer I know uses it. And no-one is going to take seriously anybody who admits to using it. You may now resume playing Tomb Raider with one hand while jerking off over Laura Croft with the other, fucktard.Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:1)
(luv@luv.asn.au) Linux Users of Victoria.
I am one clueless newbie who has been totally stunned by the incredible amount of time Rick has devoted to helping me. He has replied prompty over a period of more than 4 days ro my posts with pages of information and easy to follow instructions each time. I have never received such an incredible amount of help before from a stranger on the other side of the globe. His patience in explaining, what to him is the most basic stuff. was never ending, and he never once made me feel like the cluelless newbie I am. Rick is amazing is all I can say.
Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:3, Interesting)
I've certainly been known to tell people they "don't have to load Red Hat", if they seem to have picked up that impression and are asking my advice. For most people running desktop setups, if they ask, I tend to recommend Libranet, Lycoris Desktop/LX, Linux-Mandrake, or SuSE.
But I'm glad to help people with RH. I think three people at the last SVLUG installfest used my CDs of RH 8.0, and I duplicated a set on the spot for someone else. Currently, I also have ISOs of the post-8.0 "Phoebe" beta. A couple of days ago, I invited [linuxmafia.com] anyone interested to visit and make copies.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:2)
But the sheer irony of your posting gratuitous, anonymous personal attacks concerning my "going far beyond what is necessary or reasonable" is really very funny.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:2)
Guy, whoever you are, you obviously don't know me at all, and it was downright tacky to attack my character behind cover of anonymity, and try to sound self-righteous while doing it. Want to be concerned about "something that isn't right"? Try starting at home.
While I'm addressing the anonymity crowd: An allegedly different (I suppose) AC alleged that anyone who asks me about how to run Visio at work within Linux will get nothing but tirades against usage of Visio anywhere, on grounds of a need to "take a stand against MS". Which, I pointed out, is nothing at all like my view (as should have been obvious from The Age's article).
But anyone who bothers to check Google for my name plus "Visio" will see what I've actually said (very consistently) on that subject, when asked, for about three or four years: That some simple charting applications (dia, kivio) exist, but that anyone who is used to Visio and wants it specifically will probably end up needing to run genuine Visio via vnc or VMware; that I don't yet know of any reasonable substitutes.
And that, of course, is still my view today.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:1)
He's not the only one.
From what I can see about this discussion, here's my interpretation of the incident you're describing:
Someone (possibly even you) called Redhat "Linux 7.1" (or whatever)
Rick told them that Redhat != Linux, and there are other distributions - then (probably) went on to explain what a distribution was.
This person (again, possibly you) didn't like his attitude (because it shows that he/you're wrong), and sets out to assasinate Rick's character whenever possible.
I see something that isn't right and so I speak up
Again, this is solely my interpretation from reading your comments and Rick's, but (to me, at least) your comments make me sympathetic to Rick.
Of course, maybe you are Rick, and this is just a clever ploy to cause me to gain sympathy for you (for your own evil ends!)
'scuse me, I have to go find my tinfoil hat now
Re:Rick Moen is a liability, not an asset (Score:1)
long article, few posts (Score:1, Flamebait)
To save my karma:This guy reminds me of John Gage; excellent "Titans of Tech" biography on TechTV.
In Soviet Russia (Score:1, Flamebait)
Rick, come back to the light! (Score:1, Funny)
I've got to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
But having said that, I must say that I agree with him on a number of major points.
1. Linux is NOT for everyone. In my line of work, many people complain if you move their taskbar, nevermind changing their OS.
2. BUY LINUX. only support for the companies that create your distributions will keep them creating those distributions. (I have bought every version of RedHat since 6 and a couple of copies of SuSE, etc)
3. Linux is not the next wave of the desktop... yet. In the server field, Linux has most things tied up. Stability... Rock Solid. Usability for the uninitiated desktop user... Still sucks, sorry.
Just my 2cents. -jk
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
Just a slight variation on this. I prefer to buy merchandise from the distribution I like. They still get my financial support, and instead of a box of old CDs I don't need any more, I have a mousepad, t-shirts, case plate, stuffed penguin, etc with the Slackware logo. That also has the advantage of giving them free advertising.
In case anyone from slackware reads this: Your store site needs work...and sell some coffee mugs!
Jason
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
If you want all the companies that sell Linux distros to give up and start selling t-shirts and coffee mugs.
You're a fucking idiot.
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
What's wrong with them branching out? It's not as if selling CDs of their own distribution is challenging at all, and for most of us they are pretty much useless since it is already easier in most cases for us to install them over the network.
If all of a distribution's engineers are busy writing their names on teddy bears instead of doing release engineering then I agree that's bad. But there is no reason why they couldn't hire extra people to do that stuff and still make a small profit.
When did open source start taking itself so seriously..
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
1> create a product people will like
2> give it away for free
3> if people like it, maybe 1% will be kind enough to pay for it if we're lucky
4> profit??
This sort of thinking is exactly why so many distros can't raise enough money to support themselves. For every person like the parent poster who buys every version to support the distro, there's hundreds of free-loaders who will never buy one even if they use it for years.
The whole point of this model is that software should be free and companies should make their money on additional services. Maybe you're prefer them to make their money on tech support for their product. Then they'd have an incentive to make the program have serious problems to create a demand for support services. The merchandise will only sell well if the software is good enough to create a loyal fan-base, so there is still a strong incentive to create quality software.
As a consumer, I don't need pressed copies of my distro. Why should I buy goods I don't need? I'm better off just making a donation to them and saving them the cost of pressing the discs. If I think of it as a donation though, I'm more inclined to give to the EFF, so if they rely on charity, they'll lose out.
I do still have my official release discs of slackware 2.3 and 3.3 I bought before I got high-speed internet. Back then, the pressed CDs had some value to me, so I'd buy them.
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
If nothing else, Linux creates competition for Microsoft and should force them to lower prices in the long run. Either way, I see it as a win for the user.
Re:I've got to say... (Score:2)
Sucks to you, sucks to Aunt Tillie, but it sure as hack doesn't suck for me. Oh I actually don't use Linux, but FreeBSD, but still, X11 is still X11 on those platforms, and the same goes for KDE. It works a treat here.
It might not be a desktop for newbies (although it is getting there), it sure as hell is a powerful desktop for power users like me. UNIX is ready for the desktop, but probably not yours yet.
Re:I've got to say... (Score:1)
Windows Refund.net (Score:2, Offtopic)
I'm participating, tell your friends.
warez? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Yep (Score:1, Funny)
Moenin' (Score:2)
Rabble (Score:5, Informative)
I've never heard of "The Age", but the article certainly puts forth the qualifications to consider Rick a linux advocate and probably a more experienced/knowledgable member of the linux and open source community than the vast chunk of Slashdot.
It is an article promoting his advocacy and talking about his efforts. It isn't like they reported that he wrote the Linux OS and he was going along with the assumption.
He's done what any reasonably capable linux advocate would have done when asked to interview with an outlet - he _promoted_ linux. Wow! Imagine that.
I don't see that he has said anywhere that he deserves attention beyond anyone else and he's not taking anything away from anyone who contributes to the cause.
Damn people. Be humble.
you be humble (Score:1)
We were joking about the article not the man, who happens to be a
In Soviet Russia (Score:2)
This is my third such post to 0modded comments.
FYI - The Age (Score:3, Informative)
Now in the Murdoch stable (part of news corp_ is still does a reasonable job of annoying politicians of all persuasions and beuaracrats, as well as having excellent cricket reporting. It has a reputation as a bit left-wing (I think it was more from being an agitator in a conservative country) but that has slided a bit with Murdoch ownership.
Re:FYI - The Age (Score:3, Informative)
Re:FYI - The Age - my whopping (Score:1)
Re:Rabble (Score:1)
I think Rick Moen knows a LOT about Linux and everything that goes with it. I think he helps some, but leaves a bad taste with others. I think he could better himself and possibly fill this "Linux Advocate" role if he took some usenet anger management classes. Until he loses his linux-god-complex, he will not have my vote.
Oh, this is *not* fair (Score:1)
Not fair!
Bring your links here... (Score:1)
Here's the first one, and it was my first experience with Rick Moen being a dickhead.
http://www.eblug.org/forums/read.php?f
To summarize this post.. EBLUG had used Frontpage originally to design their website. Rick apparently didn't like this and called them a disgrace, basicly saying they shouldn't have a LUG because of this. I agree that it probably wasn't the brightest idea but they had to put up a page quickly and the guy didn't know HTML so he did it with Frontpage. Rick is GREAT with words, I don't know half of the big words he uses, if I did I would probably write a book. It's really hard to corner him because of this. I personally like this one - "neatly self-parodying. Commendably efficient of you." Keep in mind this was written a few years ago. Before the 2.4 kernel, etc. etc. So yes, I don't give a crap what you guys say Frontpage/Dreamweaver/Whatever beat the HELL out of any Linux-based webpage editor if your building a big site and not great at HTML.
Re:Bring your links here... (Score:2)
http://www.eblug.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=2&t =2
That URL is invalid. Here, let me help you. I believe you mean this thread: http://www.eblug.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=22& t=2 [eblug.org]
Readers will note that I did not "call the LUG a disgrace", that being Josh's misreading: I gave my opinion that it was a disgrace for a Linux user group to very obviously not use Linux for its primary public presence, especially something Linux is particularly good at, such as Web sites.
Webmaster Jeff Burton had asked, at the top of the thread, "if anyone has any suggestions for the website or if you find an error". So, I pointed out that the Web site seemed to be pervaded with non-standard HTML characters in place of apostrophes and such (likely produced by Microsoft software), and that its HTML was a horrible tangle of tables and Javascript, which they presumably had never looked at and badly needed to. Not knowing exactly how they'd brought this about, I asked rhetorically, "What did you use, Front Page?" I said I was sorry for having to sound a bit pointed on the matter, but had been trying to call their attention to that problem for several months in e-mail, and gotten nowhere.
Note: This was before Mozilla, Konqueror, and Opera were yet in a usable state, and browsing the LUG's site with Netscape Communicator 3.x/4.x for Linux crashed one's browser frequently (probably that tangle of tables and Javascript). In that sense, the LUG's site was actively Linux-hostile.
Jeff confirmed that yes, they used Word and Front Page. So, I suggested some Linux-based alternatives (repeating what I'd already said in e-mail). But Josh had basically already hijacked the conversation at that point, by jumping in with name-calling directed at me.
I posted once more to clarify that I'd not said what Josh claimed I had, and dropped the entire subject. Some weeks later, the LUG revised its site and cleaned up the HTML, and everyone (except, apparently, Josh) was happy.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Bring your links here... (Score:1)
What was he saying in the article about how unfortunate it was that many of the technical discussions on usenet degrade into flamewars?
22. Walk the walk, indeed.
Don't complain about such crap when you end every post with an insult directed at the guy to whom your are replying. '
This is great, a troll getting caught red-handed on Slashdot, the hub of dorkery everywhere! Albeit, a knowledgeable troll, but a troll nonetheless.
Somebody interview me!
For those of you just now joining from SVLUG ... (Score:1)
You know, SVLUG, ditching that blabber mouth, Rick, from your list was the best thing you guys did. I know Rick would like to have everyone believe that he left the list on his own ... but everyone knows, or knows now, that most of the SVLUG had enough of his abusive treatment of just about anyone on-list, and forced him to cease contact with the list. Hurrah for decency! Welcome back new Linux users; Rick is gone, so it's safe to post!
Re:For those of you just now joining from SVLUG .. (Score:2)
SVLUG had enough of his abusive treatment of just about anyone on-list, and forced him to cease contact with the list.
I simply stopped having time for the SVLUG list in mid-2001, the list often suffering high volume and a serious S/N problem, but do lurk and post [svlug.org] there on occasion.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:For those of you just now joining from SVLUG .. (Score:1)
You wish I were an AC, Mister Onymous Coward. There's no need to explain who I am, to you.
That's an extremely odd way of saying, "I got booted from the SVLUG list by all the list's participants."
See, what did I tell you all? Rick would more than love for everyone to believe that he didn't feel the community pressure to part ways with the SVLUG list. Maybe he didn't. But he did feel the proverbial boot in August 2001. His presence on the SVLUG list has been NULL for over a year, yet his activity on other lists on which he posts has been constant, if not increased, since. The "S/N problem" on the SVLUG list ceased shortly after Rick was ousted from the list. Nobody wanted his on-list abuse anymore, and the community prevailed. It's been great without the noise created by Rick, and without his attacks on community individuals. For all SVLUG list subscribers, past and present, who were intimidated by Rick's uncouth behaviour, feel free to post to the SVLUG list, again.
- Avoid the man's inordinately malodorous feet at all costs.
Re:For those of you just now joining from SVLUG .. (Score:2)
His presence on the SVLUG list has been NULL....
It might well continue to be rather light, because I simply don't have time, as I'm busy with other affairs.
Anyhow: One can't notice (1) that you're changing your story between posts -- probably because your Google research was faulty? -- but also (2) that you've been the one posting abuse, noise, and uncouth behaviour. (And, for all I know, all of the AC flamers who've plagued this topic might well be the same pair of bored teenagers in west Texas. I hope for SVLUG's sake that that's so.) I honestly don't know what your problem is, but the irony's been pretty thick.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:For those of you just now joining from SVLUG .. (Score:1)
Excellent. Readers note that "rather light" is being used an extremely loose synonym for "nonexistent" in this context.
That's correct, one can't notice it, because I'm not changing topics whatsoever. The departure of Rick's noise from the SVLUG is welcome at all times, and hopefully not taken for granted by now, since it's been a long period without it. The community knows noise when it sees it, and hopefully rejects it, no matter what the source is.
I have been bringing to light the truth behind a major complaint from community members about Rick's noise and abuse in on-line lists, and how the SVLUG triumphantly rejected Rick's behaviour. The thread subject has been kept constant, and the subject has remained on point (except for this bit of a diversion to correct an obvious attempt to confuse the readers). If this thread is considered noise to those whom have endeavoured to follow the links, I appreciate all the efforts to maintain interest in this "noise" for this amout of time.
As for the SVLUG list and community, congratulations for maintaining a friendly environment for members of the Linux community, new and established alike, to discuss the topics du jour without fearing abusive dissent from Onymous "flamers." I'm sure you all find it delightful to experience the list in it's present, low-noise, friendly state. Thanks to all of you who rise to the occasion and strive to make such an effort a continual success, in the SVLUG list and elsewhere.
Re:For those of you just now joining from SVLUG .. (Score:2)
Readers note that "rather light" is being used an extremely loose synonym for "nonexistent" in this context.
You seem to have miss the Mailman archive link I posted earlier to disprove your initial post's rather scurrilous factual claim. Whereupon, as mentioned, your story suddenly mutated. The rest of your stuff, by contrast, amounted to basically name-calling:
I appreciate all the efforts to maintain interest in this "noise" for this amount of time.
Which is, to be sure, a perfectly delightful way to characterise spurts of unilateral personal flamage posted from cover of anonymity. The reason I was saying it's probably a couple of bored teenagers in west Texas reflects no intent to malign the perfectly nice folk who live there, but rather difficulty otherwise imagining anywhere -- well -- dull enough to drive anyone to that kind of public misbehaviour. Apologies to any Lubbockites I might have inadvertantly offended.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Last Post! (Score:1)
for he seems to be passing a critical judgment on them, when he may be
simply making a limiting statement about himself.
-- Sidney Harris
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
Re:In soviet russia (Score:1)
People with elephants hurt people! Bring on tougher elephant control laws!
Re:Picked the wrong advocate (Score:4, Insightful)
And I certainly couldn't imagine telling people not to use them. Perhaps you're thinking of someone else entirely?
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Picked the wrong advocate (Score:3, Insightful)
The rest of this seems to be pretty generic attempted mudslinging from behind cover of anonymity, but I was really rather startled by those characterisations, e.g., the bit about moralising at people they need to "take a stand against MS".
As you'll see if you read the article, I have no interest in convincing people to "take a stand against MS". I personally prefer Linux (mostly); when/if other people prefer different software, that's entirely their business.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:Picked the wrong advocate (Score:3, Insightful)
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Linux zealots tend to work for microsoft (Score:2)
Mr. Moen has the right to any opinion he wants and he should be able to express it.
That being said, I feel that Kernigheze such as Mr. Moen have effectively done more to crush linux on the desktop than Bill Gates ever could. Such callous attitudes [linuxmafia.com] towards end users and the "linux does not entitle you to a usable interface, so shut up and quit whining" mantra only further strengthen Microsofts hold on desktop computing and chase away people who want to make linux more usable.
Re:Linux zealots tend to work for microsoft (Score:2)
Such callous attitudes [linuxmafia.com] towards end users and the "linux does not entitle you to a usable interface, so shut up and quit whining" mantra only further strengthen Microsofts hold on desktop computing and chase away people who want to make linux more usable.
That's an odd way to characterise the referenced essay, since that's not what it says. In fact, it actively encourages people who're crafting variant forms of the usual Linux distributions to meet the needs of particular user communities.
It says that computer users merely coming onto Linux mailing lists and newsgroups, and demanding that randomly selected Linux people "must" change their existing Linux distributions to meet the speaker's preferences simply doesn't work, and is likely to mostly get you politely filtered out and ignored. It says that, instead, you might want to look around and see if there's a different packaging of Linux that suits you better. And it makes a few other points about systems perceived as being "simple" usually are anything but that, and tend to just have their complexity better concealed than typical Linux people prefer.
That strikes me as being the simple truth. I doubt people who would otherwise "make Linux more usable" are "scared away" by hearing it -- in the unlikely event of their seeking it out. I suppose people wander across the page occasionally -- but you're really going a bit far out of your way to misread what I wrote.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA (Score:1)
There's an episode where someone is reading "Make left at fork in road..." to which the russian driver replies "IN SOVIET RUSSIA, THE ROAD FORKS YOU!"
but I could be mistaken...
Re:what is this whole SOVIET RUSSIA shit about (Score:1)