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Codingstyle Interviews PS2 Linux Developers 114

Posted by CmdrTaco from the get-your-haxx0r-on dept.
Linux Freak writes "May 22 marks the official release of Sony's PS2 Linux kit in North America and Europe! To give you something to do while waiting for your package to arrive in the mail, Codingstyle has conducted an interview with several people in the PS2 development community, including two people from Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc. (SCEA) and Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, Ltd. (SCEE), as well as official kit and PS2DEV hobbyists."
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Codingstyle Interviews PS2 Linux Developers More

Codingstyle Interviews PS2 Linux Developers

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  • It's Wednesday (Score:5, Funny)

    by rossz ( 67331 ) <ogre.geekbiker@net> on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @06:26PM (#3568757) Journal
    So today, Sony is not evil. Tomorrow they will be evil again.

    • Re:It's Wednesday (Score:3, Insightful)

      by GeorgeH ( 5469 )
      I know this is Slashdot, but can't we just once get a movie/music/video game story where someone doesn't post this? Can't we once get the idea that not everything in life is black and white, that video games can be fun and hacking on the consoles is really geeky even if Sony supports the DMCA or whatever "our" gripe with them is.

      Maybe I'm just naturally wary of people who force issues into "them" and "us" statements... but if that were true what would I be doing here on /.?
      • I think that the reason is that the editors are extremely critical, paranoid, and alarmist when it comes to DMCA and anything related ... and yet, by drooling over anything that comes from these companies, they prove that they really don't care all that much. Many people look at Slashdot to see what the tech community thinks of things -- and what they see by looking at the front page is that we're all talk.


        If /. wasn't so prominent, or if it was only in the comments, I don't think it would matter much. As it is, however, they deserve to be called on it as often as it comes up.

      • Re:It's Wednesday (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "can't we just once get a movie/music/video game story where someone doesn't post this"

        Cant we just once have a post which employs sarcasm, irony or some other form of humour without it needing to be spelled out like this site is only read by humourless, pedantic fucking idiots?

    • Re:It's Wednesday (Score:2, Insightful)

      by gmarceau ( 119282 )
      1. There is no slashdot

        The audience of slashdot is composed of a fairly wide range of opinionated individual. Even thought each reader probably have a mostly consistent point of view, the slashdot pool as a whole as little chances to be.

      2. Sony's hardware and music departments are mostly independent from each other - and often at odd.

        I'm sure Sony Music isn't too happy Sony Hardware is selling consumer grade cd duplicators [sony.com].

  • Interesting (Score:2, Informative)

    by RTFA Man ( 578488 )
    While this interview primarily focused on development using the PS2 Linux kit, the official kit isn't the only way that hobbyists can involve themselves with the PS2.

    Another method involves coding directly for the PS2 itself. This is known as PS2DEV. PS2DEV has become the keyword on the Internet to identify the home brew development community.

    These are people that use open source, GPL & free software to develop programs for their vanilla PS2. PS2DEV is concerned with building the community and tools to make it easier for anyone to get started programming their PS2.

    • Doing raw PS2 development, though, requires a hardware hack to your PS2 to disable the copy protection mechanism (which makes it very likely illegal, as per the DMCA).

      Not that I particularly care if anyone breaks the law in this case, but just be aware of that.

      • Re:Interesting (Score:3, Informative)

        by Slynkie ( 18861 )
        Seems like that's not exactly true, there are legal (NON-hardware) workarounds to do raw PS2 development...

        At least, that's what this FAQ [sourceforge.net] seems to indicate.
        • There are legal software solutions for doing PS2 development, like gcc for PS2, but you can't actually get your code to run on the PS2 without installing a special chip which deactivates the PS2's copy protection system, which itself is almost surely a DMCA violation even if you don't intend to violate copyrights.

          Granted, you CAN achive the same thing on some older PS2 models by using a 'knife method' to trick the DVD tray into opening, but this will probably damage your PS2 even if done over a short term, and doesn't work correctly with newer model PS2s.

          • Re:Interesting (Score:1, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Are you talking about the modchip? Sony did not yet sue any vendor over modchips - you can buy them pretty much at any modchip outlet (chipzone, easybuy2000, whatnot). Do you think they really violate DMCA?

    • Re:Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Knoxvill3 ( 578169 )
      Uhh, this guy got a score of 2: informative for copying what the website says in verbatim?! Bad Moderators, See for yourselves [codingstyle.com], 2nd paragraph on the page. ( Hint: "While this interview primarily focuses on...")

  • slashdotted (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    apparently the site was running off a ps2 linux box
  • Warning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) in /home/codingstyle/www/pnadodb/adodb-mysql.inc.p hp on line 105 Warning: MySQL Connection Failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/lib/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) in /home/codingstyle/www/pnadodb/adodb-mysql.inc.p hp on line 105 Error connecting to dbcodingstyle Program: /home/codingstyle/www/mainfile2.php - Line N.: 82 Database: codingstyle Error (2002) :

    Tee hee hee. Robust, eh?

  • This kit is all well and nice, but since Sony's copy protection exists for their custom DVDs it is all but impossible to play created games in normal systems. Obviously Sony wants to make money from the kits but what they really want is to make money for their games. Undoubtedly, they must feel that they lose more money from no copy protection than from more developers. Whether or not this is the case (it is probably is true), maybe a method for reading special DVD's for non corporate content should have been thought of. Oh well. Ho Kooshy Fly
    • The point of this kit it to let the normal person access the hardware of the ps2 so that they can write their own game. You don't need to be able to read the dvd-rom/cd drive to do that. Yeah, I agree that it kinda sucks, but they are not selling you a general purpose PC, they are selling a games machine. If you are really hc, then you can write a game using the linux kit and then take it to a publisher, maybe it will get picked up. Maybe you'll be able to get a job, who knows.
      I pirated games for the PS one, I had a chip-mod, but I still bought games when I knew they were good. They don't want a large underground group releasing non-sony licensed games.
      • They don't want a large underground group releasing non-sony licensed games.

        Homebrew developers are, for the most part, what keep the Dreamcast "alive" today. There's an unbelievable ammount of free, homebrewed software for the DC. Take a look [dcemulation.com]. There are emulators, puzzle games, racing games, and even first person shooters (both quake ports and original works) being developed by joe programmer using GCC and some hacked libraries.

        It'd bet that the users who still codes for the DC is the same one that Sony is trying to reach with the Linux kit.
        • I'd bet that the users who still codes for the DC is the same one that Sony is trying to reach with the Linux kit.

          I've been slowly moving along writing a little rpg for the dreamcast for a while now, and at first I was really interested in the ps2 linux. Heck, I was planning on buying a ps2 just for that fact. What killed any interest for me is the inability to actually share your work with others. Of my friends, only one actually likes video games. I somehow doubt she'd fork out the $200 it'd take to allow her to play mine, and unfourtunatly playing single player video rpgs as a group isn't very entertaining. So what's left is the fun of sharing your creation over the internet. For me much of the point of writing games is to get feedback, find out what people like and don't like, and know that people are enjoying your work. With the ps2 linux the audience is so small as to be pointless to me.

          As much as I see why they did it, since allowing someone to boot off a linux cd to a game included on it would have probaly led rather quickly to quite a bit of piracy, untill it is possible to have someone actually 'play' a game I code without buying the linux kit first I'm sticking with the good ol' dreamcast.

  • Here's a mirror (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mr. Spock ( 25061 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @06:40PM (#3568842)
    I've put up a mirror on playstation2-linux.com [playstation2-linux.com]. You may also want to check out the official site which is, of course, http://playstation2-linux.com [playstation2-linux.com]
    • what, may i ask, is the point of putting a mirror of the original on the original? i've been comparing the URLS for about 3 minutes trying to spot a difference, but either i'm blind or i can't see the point
      • Well, one of them is on http://codingstyle.com. The other is on http://playstation2-linux.com. Maybe you need the latest version of diff :)
  • Error accesing to the database
    Program: /home/codingstyle/www/includes/counter.ph p - Line N.: 82
    Database: codingstyle
    Error (2006) : MySQL server has gone away

    I think so... whoops.. /. bad..

  • Homebrew, MAME, etc.. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I believe it's true that the system won't read homebrew optical discs (DVD-R or CD-R!) (jeesh,, Sony only gives an inch at a time, eh?)

    However, the kit includes an HD. So, I'm hoping that nice people can code their creations and put the executable on their web site. PS2 Linux Kit owners can then (deep breath) download the file, transfer to the ps2-linux HD, re-attach the HD to their PS2 (or can they be networked?) and play play play!

    I'm *really* hoping that this will finally give me a way to play my favorite MAME games on a *television* Emulators would be wonderful on this system!

    • IIRC the linux kit comes with an Ethernet adaptor, and in the interview they talked about mounting network shares - there should be no reason why playing over the network shouldn't work. They also say they are expecting some media players..

      All sounds good to me :))
    • ps2 linux kit comes with an ethernet adapter.

      PS2 Linux Kit owners could wget the file and run it. It's not that bad, how often do people with broadband and LANs really use CD-Rs or DVD-Rs anyways?
    • There are ports of MAME and other arcade emulators for the Dreamcast. Dreamcast can also read CD-Rs, and Dreamcast is $150 dollars cheaper than a PS2, and you don't need to pay more money for a hard drive or a Linux kit.

      There are also lots of ways to code for the Dreamcast. (Windows CE, KOS)

      Dreamcast also has VGA output in its own display output, therefore no other device is required to convert from NTSC/PAL to VGA. For more information: dcemulation.com [dcemulation.com]

  • not to be an asshole but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DanThe1Man ( 46872 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @06:57PM (#3568928)
    Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value. I don't want to be flamebait or a troll, but why would someone want linux on a low resulation TV monitor? You could use a regular monitor, but if you have a regular monitor, you probably already have a computer to partion and put linux on.
    • Good question, but its probbably the same reason we see Linux going into toasters and such.

      why do you climb the mountain, because its there. Probbably the same reason people use Linux on a PS2, just to see if they can, and what they can do with it.
      • hehe. what can you do with a mountain? other than blow it up just to see if you can?

        sorry, i am not trying to be difficult. but "because it's there" is not a good marketable skill. "because i wanted to learn more about it/myself/whatever" perhaps.

        imagine a job interview:
        "Why did you break into that website?"
        "Because it was there."
        "Hired... NOT!"
    • What do you mean "except for the hack value"? The hack value here is extreme! However, that's not the only point. What you get with Linux (for Playstation 2) is system manuals for previously secret playstation 2 hardware components, and an interface to write code for them. Sony is releasing a lot of software and documentation that was previously only available to licensed developers. If you have an interest in developing console games/applications, the kit can really jumpstart your knowledge and experience.
    • Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value.

      Simple. Vexed [sf.net].

    • Running terminal from your television looks cool.

    • Re:not to be an asshole but... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by inkfox ( 580440 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @07:19PM (#3569043) Homepage
      Could someone explain the point of this exersise, except for the hack value.
      I make video games for a living. I'm a lead programmer, and I make hiring decisions.

      If you wrote a decent PS2 Linux game on your own, I'd hire you in a heartbeat, even if you had no industry experience.

      How's that?

      • What would be the advantage of writing PS2 Linux game vs. a DirectX or OpenGL PC game
        as far as your hiring decision is concerned?

        Just curious...
        • What would be the advantage of writing PS2 Linux game vs. a DirectX or OpenGL PC game as far as your hiring decision is concerned?
          The benefits would be your having experience with the quirks of the hardware, and experience programming within a limited environment. Most applicants who have only had PC experience assume infinite resources and scads of pre-written libraries. Console code needs to be fairly lean, generally needs to bang on the hardware directly to get the best results, and generally doesn't rely on heaps of pre-written libraries.

          Looking at your code, I can also determine whether you really understand the implications of the code you're writing. It's one thing when code is meant to be general-purpose, relying on the OS to translate everything into the most efficient formats. It's another when I can assume you should have had every opportunity to pick the right data formats and algorithms that work most efficiently on the given hardware.

          On top of all that, the fact that you were interested enough to get a kit such as this one and make a game on your own speaks volumes about your dedication to game programming, and it takes dedicated people to make good games.

        • Hmm...

          1. Very limited memory (32MB)..
          2. Straight-to-the-bones programming - DirectX is a layer (which you're protected from crashing - well, many times).
          3. Non X86 world...
          4. Non MS world compiler tricks and optimizations...

          The list goes on...
      • I often browse the employment ads on Gamasutra, and see jobs requiring x years of PS/2 development experience, wondering how one can ever get experience on such a closed platform.

      • I'm in the same position -- I'm a PS2 coder, and I have a say in hiring decsions.

        While experience is a good thing, frankly, there's a lot of other things I'm looking at as well. You're by no means a shoe in if you lack other basic skills computer science and mathematical skills.

        Looks at this as a tool, kids, but you can impress me other ways much more easily.

      • What's the salary like in the ps2 business? Experiences programmer, novice programmer, etc.
      • Is learning the specifics of the PS2 hardware that worthwhile? If someone wrote a decent game to a platform abstracted API like SDL (and even had it running on multiple platforms), would it be of less value?
        • Is learning the specifics of the PS2 hardware that worthwhile? If someone wrote a decent game to a platform abstracted API like SDL (and even had it running on multiple platforms), would it be of less value?
          That would be valuable, but not as much so. Guys who understand the engine-side stuff are golden, because there aren't enough of them out there. They can easily command six figure salaries just about anywhere.

          Someone who mostly works through APIs and who is going to rely on others to do the dirty work is valuable, but may only earn half or two-thirds as much, and definitely has a lot more impressing to do in the interview.

    • Personaly I think they would be great for a internet Cafes. Cheap $200 computers, while you can also play ps2 games. How cool would that be?
    • For me the real value is in seeing how the console hardware works, how to control it and generally "how console games differ from the pc game set". More like a learning experience. The monitor/tv debate does not even enter the picture.

      Some day, I will be able to add to my CV "experience with the PS2 hardware", just because of this linux 2 kit.

  • Interesting interview... (Score:3, Funny)

    by b0r0din ( 304712 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @07:27PM (#3569093)
    "How much do you program on the PS2 kit?"

    Interviewee #1: Umm, not much.
    Interviewee #2: Umm, not much. My dog ate my development notes.
    Interviewee #3: I'd program more, but umm, not much. See I met this real non-plastic girl and we [censored- see alt.furries.erotica]
    Interviewee #4: I program a lot except on the PS2. Can I talk about how uninteresting my job at [insert acronym] is?
    Interviewee #5: I was just explaining how the RISC chip architecture worked when you interrupted me. Oh yes, what was the question? Oh yeah...umm, not much.
    Interviewee #6: I'm too busy trying to get to the next level of GTA3 to actually code on it. Is that what that beta thingy I received in the mail was for?
    Interviewee #7: (aptly named Sporkhead): Cool! My PS2 says 'Hello, World'!
  • ...that they've ported Linux to my IBM PS/2 56. MCA fun, here I come!
    • There was no PS/2 model 56. There was a Model 50 and a Model 60, but no Model 56.

      • check:

        http://www.pc.ibm.com/qtechinfo/GJAN-43VR4V.html ?l ang=en_CA&brand=IBM+PC%7CPS%2F2&family=IBM+PC%7CPS %2F2&doctype=&subtype=All

        http://www-1.ibm.com/cgi-bin/pc/support/supportR 5l ite/pagegen/qtechinfo/en_US/GJAN-43WLKB.html?lang= pt_BR&page=brand&brand=IBM+PC&family=&machineType= &doctype=Product+information&subtype=All&up=unknow nuser1016735209

  • Sony notification email (Score:4, Funny)

    by lucaschan.com ( 457832 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @07:49PM (#3569242) Homepage
    Heh, for those of you that didn't sign up to recieve email notification when the Linux PS2 kit was released, you're definitely missing out.

    Sony mis-configured the mailing list so that when people replied their messages went to everyone else that signed up for notification.

    There is currently some very dodgy porn being sent out to everyone via email, including some poor guy who's trying to buy the Linux kit for his son.

    Definitely made my morning. Thanks Sony. =)

  • The most important bit of information.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Cryptnotic ( 154382 ) on Wednesday May 22, 2002 @09:08PM (#3569574)
    ...on that page actually wasn't part of the article. It was a comment by "mrbrown".

    One of the most surprising features about the kit is how the Linux kernel is loaded into RAM and executed: the kernel ELF file (a common executable format that's also used on the PS2) is stored to the memory card, and the PS2/Linux bootloader loads it into RAM and executes it. However Sony allows you to place _any_ ELF executable on the memory card to be loaded. This means that any native PS2 program, even those written by PS2DEV enthusiasts, can be loaded without a swap trick or modchip. This is how the NetBSD and eCos teams were able to port their respective operating systems to the PS2.

    Because of this, the number of uses for the kit are actually limitless as long as the boot CD doesn't put the PS2 into some "limited" mode. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

  • ...are not running Linux on the PS2? In other words, would it be possible for me to hook up my monitor on the PS2, for those times that the TV is in use for other (non-gaming) purposes? Or just so that I can use the Linux kit and later play some of the games, without the need to move back to the TV.

  • I know that this is Slashdot, and that everyone is supposed to march in lock-step and get excited about a new port to some esoteric (read "forgotten") platform, but why the hell would I want to run Linux on some circa early 90's IBM Model 70 MicroChannel-based 386? I mean, com'on! Next y'all be getting all excited about being able to dust off your PCJr's, with those infra-red chiclet keyboards.

    *Sheesh*

    ...anactofgod...
  • I'm -really- interested in getting this kit and putting a wireless ethernet adaptor on it. Uses would be none too sophisticated - MAME and MP3 playing really.

    All falls apart if I can't connect it to a wireless ethernet router. So...anyone done it?

    Cheers,
    Ian

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