Review: Yellow Dog Linux 2.2 209
fabiolrs writes: "imaclinux.net is running a review on Yellow Dog Linux 2.2. They could manage to run it on the iBook. YDG 2.2 is a great distro with KDE 2.2.2, Gnome 1.4, kernel 2.4.18 and Xfree86 4.2.0." Nice to see PPC systems (meaning "Apple," mostly) getting so much attention in the Linux world lately -- Mandrake's 8.2 PPC is also getting close to a release.
i was wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Re:i was wrong (Score:1)
Past YDL releases were good too (Score:3, Interesting)
YDL's RPMs make it easy for anyone who's familiar with Redhat or Mandrake to get YDL running on a PPC. Woohoo!
I've never used PPC (Score:1)
Re:I've never used PPC (Score:1)
almost 10 years ago i was able to conect a new printer on the network and print from any client without installing anything!
Re:I've never used PPC (Score:2)
Old MacDonald had a chip. (Score:2)
Re:I've never used PPC (Score:1)
Re:I've never used PPC (Score:2)
Oh, wait, I forgot. We're still in the post-dotbomb days of "CHOICE IS BAD" and it's time to hail MS for helping keep the geriatric x86 line around.
i wouldn't call it great.. (Score:4, Informative)
bug ridden (take a look at their yup, update program for example, core software for the distro and it doesn't work right), difficult to install and very poor support is more like it. take a look at the ydl mailing list for lots of complaints. in addition the company has a pretty lousy policy of releasing iso images months after it's available in stores (to get people to buy it). i miss linuxppc, that was a good distro. fortunately debian, suse and mandrake are available. [linuxiso.org]
posted anonymously so i don't get my butt sued [slashdot.org].
Re:i wouldn't call it great.. (Score:3, Informative)
I use YDL 2.1 with Natilaus installed and have say it is totally cool. Have not looked back.
Re:i wouldn't call it great.. (Score:2)
Re:i wouldn't call it great.. (Score:2)
Re:i wouldn't call it great.. (Score:2)
p.s. I've used the PPC beta from Mandrake, and it looks to be pretty good. My preference is to run SuSE 7.3, though
KDE 2.2.2? (Score:2, Funny)
at least now we know you are truly bonkers (Score:1)
YDL has issues (Score:1)
Re:YDL has issues (Score:1)
Mandrake is getting 8.2 ppc ready to roll out a little after the x86 8.2 release so that will be a little more cutting edge if you are looking for that. Mandrake is focusing their resources on New World machines so Old World support might not all you hope for.
13 posts, site down (Score:1)
Anyone know of a good faq (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Anyone know of a good faq (Score:3, Informative)
Debian & iBook (Score:4, Interesting)
To my great surprise it went mostly smooth. I downloaded a minimal CD image and got up and running from there. apt-get install really is as cool as they say
My biggest problem was that by default I had kernel 2.2 something and PMU (APM for Mac) crashed and burned. 2.4 fixed that though.
I really can't say that PPC is so mega-cool, but walking around with an Apple laptop (very rare) with Linux installed (almost as rare) is very geeky
O'Reilly article (Score:3, Informative)
iBooks Rare (Score:2)
I really can't say that PPC is so mega-cool, but walking around with an Apple laptop (very rare)
You must not go to the same coffee shops I do. At the ones I hang out, you'd think the 90% marketshare belonged to Apple. I guess wintel users don't find their 1 hour battery life too useful.
And that is one of the (many) mega-cool PPC things--massive battery life. Don't know what kind of power management the Linux distros have, though.
5 Hours, Twice The Speed (Score:2)
Interesting. OS X minimal workload at 600 MHz I get around 5 hours. Using it hard (constant mp3 decoding, drive and cd usage) I get around 3.5 hrs (fav coffee shop just got Airport so will report back on that).
I have 5 mouse buttons on my iBook. They are even named. Mouse button, Control, Option, Command, and Shift.
Link to YDL (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Link to YDL (Score:1)
The Mandrake release is still beta but you can dl it. Maybe that's why.
Also.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Terrasoft makes some nice PPC hardware [terrasoftsolutions.com] in addition to their distro.
Re:Also.. I'm about to get my hands on some (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm thinking at the moment that I'll netboot Debian and install my own clustering libraries and tools, since as far as I can tell, everything included in Black Lab is available elsewhere except their graphical cluster management tools.
Too bad they didn't see fit to GPL them and just make money on their rather expensive BriQ's (We paid $1500/per for G4s) before Black Lab was released.
Does anyone have any experience with these? Any tips?
Re:Also.. (Score:2)
Why aren't more vendors who want to distribute Linux machines using PPC? Motherboard costs?
Of course this then begs the question of why Apple hardware is more expensive, but I'm typing this on my new iMac, so clearly I don't care.
Supported hardware still needs a little work... (Score:2, Informative)
Oh well...there's always other options:
Apokalypse linux
MachTen [tenon.com]
Linux on Powerbook 1400 (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Linux on Powerbook 1400 (Score:1)
No ISO? No go. (Score:3, Informative)
It's their right, but not a very good practice to try and win over new customers who don't want to spend $$$ to test out a new distribution.
Thankfully, I was able to get Debian installed. Now only if I could figure out how to boot it properly from OpenFirmware. The steps in the recent O'reilly article didn't work for me.
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:4, Informative)
The Yellowdog Linux website says the iso will be distributed on the 8th of April. That's four days from now.
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:2)
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:2)
Ha!
Obviously, you didn't notice that you were reading slashdot! You know this because if you scroll to the top, you'll see on the top left of your screen, a picture that says "Slashdot".
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:2)
No.
Thanks for asking.
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:3, Informative)
Branden Robinson (the debian XFree maintainer) has a page about that kind of stuff. [debian.org]
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:1)
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:2)
PS. Loving my iBook, BTW. It is small, fast, and QUIET! Also, it doesn't burn a hole in my lap.
Re:No ISO? No go. (Score:2, Informative)
They usually give themselves a few weeks to sell some CDs so they have SOME capital to continue development. I can hardly fault them for that, and to tell you the truth, I really don't mind because I'm already using the latest versions of a lot of the software that's included with Yellow Dog.
So you have to wait a couple of weeks to `yup update`* your distro, big deal.
* yup, or Yellow Dog Update, is a cross-platform CLI package management tool that Terra Soft maintains (similar to Debian's apt-get, but trimmed down).
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Besides, source code for source code's sake isn't a good reason in my book. It may be in yours, de gustibus non est disputandem though. I prefer functionality and form over politics and open-source advocacy.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Interesting)
So here's something else you can't do with OS X that you can with YDL: copy it to your friends' computers legally.
As to your "why not x86 then?" post below: DUH again! It's a little thing called dual-booting. Yes, I'd like to have an all free software system, but why not *also* have the best proprietary OS available too?
And for many YDL users, I suspect YDL came *after* the purchase of the PPC hardware. It sure did in my case. In fact, OS X isn't going to run on my old mac, but with YDL I get to do all the fun stuff like code in Perl or Ruby and run the web browsers that give me control rather than the web designer, I get the email client I like, I get GnuPG, I get emacs, the list goes on and on. The only time I boot to Mac OS is to print or get pix off my digital camera.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Note: I'm not denying your argument...choice is a good thing...but why mac hardware over pc hardware, given price/performance differences is my question.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
1.) Linux-specific development research
2.) Wireless security & research software
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Likely answers to the original question are:
1. Macintosh users are getting just as tired of Apple's corporate crap as Intel users are of Microsoft's. Despite Apple's warm and fuzzy PR persona, the only difference between it and Microsoft is annual revenue. Steve Jobs would trade places with Bill Gates in a heartbeat.
2. Large and important chunks of OS X are, and forever will be, proprietary, which means that end-users are, and forever will be, dependent on Apple for key OS functionality (or the lack thereof).
3. OS X is still a dog, albeit with fewer fleas.
4. More than one of something is a good thing.
5. Freedom from choice isn't really freedom.
6. Assuming that there are indeed things that OS X can do that Linux can't, those things aren't of sufficent value to end-users to justify the incremental cost and loss of control.
7. On a personal note, I got tired of waiting a decade for a new OS from Apple, only to be milked for two hundred bones for a retread that wasn't, and still isn't, ready for prime-time.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
>1. Macintosh users are getting just as tired of >Apple's corporate crap as Intel users are of >Microsoft's. Despite Apple's warm and fuzzy PR >persona, the only difference between it and >Microsoft is annual revenue. Steve Jobs would >trade places with Bill Gates in a heartbeat.
Translation: Politics affect ease of use. Ok...
>2. Large and important chunks of OS X are, and >forever will be, proprietary, which means that >end-users are, and forever will be, dependent on >Apple for key OS functionality (or the lack >thereof).
A partially valid criticism..on the other hand, Linux hardware support isn't nearly as good as windows (in terms of the x86 platform), so why not go to windows if what you want is the ultimate in compatibility?
>3. OS X is still a dog, albeit with fewer fleas.
>
>4. More than one of something is a good thing.
>
>5. Freedom from choice isn't really freedom.
I'm somehow translating seemingly noble philosophical ideals into computer software.
>6. Assuming that there are indeed things that OS >X can do that Linux can't, those things aren't >of sufficent value to end-users to justify the >incremental cost and loss of control.
Such as QuarkXPress, Itunes, Photoshop, Digital camera integration, best user interface, CONSISTENT user interface, higher game availability, etc.
>7. On a personal note, I got tired of waiting a >decade for a new OS from Apple, only to be >milked for two hundred bones for a retread that >wasn't, and still isn't, ready for prime-time.
That seems somewhat churlish of you...I don't really see how it's not ready for primetime either.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Syntax vs. semantics again. You, my friend, are an ass.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
you basically said that you understood running linux if OS X was a dog on whatever hardware one had... he is just illiterate.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
Use Linux?
Look, you may think OS X is the perfect OS and given a free copy the whole world would instantly convert, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to break it to you - that wouldn't happen. There'd be people who would tell you to get lost
I'd do it for personal beliefs (more below). Others don't like Aqua, don't like the Apple way. Whatever.
I, personally, believe the OS should be open. The OS together with the hardware are absolutely key to computing. Everything else revolves around them, which is why I believe they should be open. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no zealot, I don't give a monkeys ass about the applications on top. That can be as closed or as open as you like, suits me fine either way. I don't mind paying for software. But if one organisation controls the OS then you're heading for trouble, I mean look at Microsoft. I don't believe Apple would be any different in their shoes. And worse, Apple control the hardware too!
Once again, don't get me wrong. Apple produce lovely hardware, and lovely software. I'm willing to pay for those things, but only if I know they are open. Macs aren't standard hardware, though they are getting that way, they basically are made up of components that are standardised throughout the world. And OS X is like the Mac itself, sorta open.
But for me, sorta open isn't good enough. I think the OS should be like the web - governed but not chained to a neutral independant standards organisation like the W3C. Nothing like that exists .... yet
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Being both an AMD box and an Apple laptop owner, I like both. I use my AMD athlon as my home computer, and my apple as my laptop. on my home station, I use mandrake, on my laptop, strictly OS X.
OS X is not perfect, but I like it a lot. THe thing I really love is that I can run an X client on it so I can run X apps remotely on my laptop at work. The rest of the crap I do is through a terminal, so OS X is just fine, thank you.
OS X has many advantages: power management, better graphics, the modem works, more software, better hardware support.... everything just works.
and, you are right in that it is a package you are buying. some people just like to change things to their liking for philisophical or other reasons.... I personally am not up to that much work. I love linux on x86 hardware, but when I buy a Mac, I buy if for the lovely hardware and the good software and multimedia capabilites. Some people just love to tweak! good for them, i say, because if you have a choice in which OS you cna run on any given hardware, that is good for everyone.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
There are alot of us who would never code for a properiaty windowing system if it wasn't necesarry. Why should we run X on darwin when we already got Linux?
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Solaris is a very powerful, very stable system. People buy SPARC hardware to run Solaris, whether it's a cheapskate Blade box or a high-end enterprise server; while SPARC Linux is nice to have around for hack value, the vast majority of real-world Linux use is on Intel/AMD.
And now I completely undermine my own point.
I grant you that the proposition is a little different with an iBook; they're very elegant little computers with lots of nice features (the newer ones, that is). PowerPC Linux does have much more of a real-world presence than SPARC does right now, so there is a better case for it. Granted I can't afford IBM's obscene prices for a PowerPC box, but old Macs are easy enough to come by, and one never knows when the opportunity to hack a TiVo might pop up. That's why there seems to be a fair amount of pent-up demand for ATX PowerPC motherboards.
But the fact is that Linux on an iBook is a bit pointless, at least from a Mac fan's point of view. Look at it this way: you've just bought a laptop that is configured to run one of the most bulletproof operating systems in the industry, one with over thirty years of history behind it branching in from at least three different directions. MacOS X is every bit as good a system as Linux or Windows NT 5+ (2000 and XP), has more software support than the former, and doesn't abuse its users like the latter.
Granted, it does come down to a matter of taste. But if you've gone through the trouble of buying a Mac as your #1 system and don't have any particularly strong reason for not running a Mac OS (bandwidth-intensive processing using the gigabit ethernet in a G4 box comes to mind), you will at the very least get an awful lot of strange looks from a Mac crowd that is just getting used to the advantages of Unix and Open Source (especially on a portable, where the OS invariably is designed to fit the hardware like a glove no matter the platform).
/Brian
What's the point of Linux on an iMac? (Score:1)
umm... considering the limited hardwares that they need to support, shouldn't it be not too hard to be able to on all the new hardwares?
YDG 2.2 is a great distro with KDE 2.2.2, Gnome 1.4, kernel 2.4.18 and Xfree86 4.2.0.
Shouldn't Gnome, KDE, and other softwares for Linux run fine on OSX? In other words, wouldn't putting effort into Linux application compatibility on OSX be more worthwile?
BTW, I'm also curious as to how Linux apps run on OSX since I'm considering a new computer purchase. Anyone know? Apple's phone number only directs me to tech support for people who already own a mac, which are not for those who are just curious.
"Linux apps" on OS X (Score:2)
I'm also curious as to how Linux apps run on OSX since I'm considering a new computer purchase.
Standard Linux binaries will not run on OS X, because Linux binaries assume x86, X and some WM. However, OS X really is a Unix, so installing X, hacking and a compile should work. /. types are already doing this and OS X binaries are starting to appear.
However, you may find you don't want to run standard Linux apps after your OS X purchase. Very nice commercial apps already exist for OS X, and the shareware community is mature and strong. And some of the best Unix apps have already been ported to use Apple APIs.
Re:What's the point of Linux on an iMac? (Score:2)
They're going a great job of porting a whole bunch of apps across to OS X, and they use apt too!
I use a PowerPC (Score:4, Interesting)
It is nice in the sense that the notebook works well. But it is a major headache to get software to work.
While some folks may say, it is LINUX and therefore it will work, that is a figment of the imagination.
Firstly when using closed software people only say Linux. When I mention PowerPC they say no problem if it is Linux it works. But then I mention it is not Intel and they say "oh, sorry, but it works on Intel".
Secondly when using open source many people do not setup the
The only software that has worked without problem whatsoever are the bigger projects (Apache, Perl, etc) and Java. I am amazed at how well Java moves from Windows, Linux Intel and Linux PowerPC.
My conclusion is that even Open Source and closed source are as arrogant about non-intel platforms.
Re:I use a PowerPC (Score:3, Insightful)
That being said, even on debian, other architectures are in a sense second class, since most of the developers use the i386 platform. This means that packages get autobuilt more slowly on powerpc, for example, but on the whole, it's a great powerpc distro.
Re:I use a PowerPC (Score:2)
I split my time between MacOS X and intel Linux, and after trying several PPC Linux distros, I've never had any luck getting one to install. It's great that there's PPC Linux, and apparently it works for some people, but personally,
For me, PPC Linux doesn't really offer any advantages (even assuming I could get it to install!).
Re:It's finite resources, not arrogance (Score:2)
I am not trying to be sarcastic or pedandic. I am just using the argument that you gave me.
I am always willing to build the apps myself. But the problem is that most of the folks simply choose to ignore me. Ok I will admit that there was a really helpful person on the Anjuta mailing list. But that was clearly the exception. What I would like is that people just think a bit more than simply x86.
Debian "Sid" on an ibook... (Score:5, Informative)
Mac Linux distros suck (Score:1)
Well in the Mac side of things Linux only seems to run on the latest and greatest. I have several PPC 601, 603e machines that Linux just will not run on, or at least a decent disto. MkLinux doesnt count. With YellowDog and LinuxPPC I just dont see the point if one needs a G3 or better.
If I had a Ibook, G4 Powerbook, etc... I think OS X would be a lot better than these RedHat ported to PPC *nixes.
you don't need G3 hardware (Score:1)
YDL--not for everybody (Score:2, Informative)
Question time (Score:2)
There were a couple of posts complaining that PPC distros only run on the latest and greatest stuff.
Are there any PPC Linux distros that break this mould.
Inquiring minds and all that stuff...
I got a friend with an old mac that thinks its time to try linux.
_______________________________________________
Re:Question time (Score:2)
SuSE 7.3 PPC runs like a banshee on my Blue and White G3
PowerBook 1400? (Score:1)
I have heard that MkLinux will do so (relying on the serial port for networking, or something), but I'd really prefer something that lets me use external SCSI devices, as I only have the floppy drive Expansion Bay unit.
Older Macs. (Score:2)
I've got YDL 2.1 running on a 7200/120 at home - the first PPC mac with PCI slots. Not a new beast by any means. Hell, the BSDs don't even support PPC machines this old.
And I'm looking at installing it on a 6500 as well, which isn't exactly showroom-fresh.
Hopefully this will stem some of the "just run OS X" tide...
--saint
Re:Look harder (Score:2)
The early macs are supported by the mac68k ports of Net and OpenBSD. The later ones (post-601) are supported by the PPC builds. But the 6100, 7100, 8100, and 7200 are all orphaned, so far as BSD is concerned.
Perhaps you ought to've looked harder.
--saint
linux on a non PPC mac? (Score:1)
Re:linux on a non PPC mac? (Score:2)
Debian would be a good choice. I ran it briefly on a Quadra, and the performance was pretty good for a machine of that era.
So far as I know, they're the only native-English distro for m68k.
(You might want to read this page [roadflares.org] as well -- it's a little summary I wrote for installing another OS on a Mac with limited disk space.)
--saint
My experience: great support (Score:3, Interesting)
I was really impressed with Terra Soft's [terrasoftsolutions.com] support for scanning Slashdot for comments by little whiners like myself and actually giving me a hand. I had mad no effort to understand the problem when I posted my rant but yet this guy went out of his way to help me. I'm certainly not that forgiving to my customers, even though they've paid for my help.
After resolving my install problem, I've been very happy with the distro. I'm planning on using this for the basis for future development at my company.
Kudos to Terra Soft!
YD 2.1 too (Score:2)
No need to run fluky yup again...
In a related story... (Score:2)
Best server distro for PPC? (Score:2)
I read the article. (Score:2)
no offense, I'm not distro maintainer but that just seems like an easy one.
MacOSX vs. YDL (Score:4, Interesting)
I used YDL when I first got my TiBook. I had to, because I needed 802.11 support and Apple didn't support Orinoco. I switched because I needed Firewire more than I needed Orinoco. My experiences:
YDL: Works as well as any mainstream Linux distribution. Yup works, by some definition of "works". Better still, Ximian's stuff builds from SRPMS, and Ximian now explicitly supports them with binaries. Not hard to get current, buildable kernel source, and FreeSWAN works nicely for IPsec. The (major) negative is that Firewire support blows, and it is pointless to buy hard drives that don't come in Firewire enclosures. When I left YDL, SBP2 drivers didn't work at all. The (minor) negative is that companies don't distribute closed-source binaries for YDL, and they do for X86 Linux.
OSX 10.1: A dream; xterms, xemacs, and Adobe Illustrator on the same screen. Rootless XFree86, transparent anything, beautiful user interface, antialiasing. It's faster than Linux for applications and slower for tools. The one (big) negative is that there is no credible IPsec or VPN support. A minor negative is that you can't keep current with BOTH the dev kernel AND Apple's updates.
I'm on OSX 10.1.3 now and I'm not looking back. However, I can understand why people want PPC Linux, if they already simply use Linux for everything and want good portable environments. It's good to hear that YDL continues to move forward.
why is this okay? (Score:3, Informative)
I have $100 just waiting to be donated to the first PPC Linux team that produces something that works properly on my iBook. Seriously. No one seems to want it.
In Yellow Dog 2.1, I followed their Airport setup instructions to the letter, but it does not work. Their "YUP" update tool does not work. Sound did not work. From the way the article reads, it sounds like 2.2 is more of the same, so why bother?
I'm also following the Mandrake 8.2 PPC beta process with much interest. As far as I can tell, there is ONE GUY - Stewart - working on it. He's doing some great things, but frankly, it's clear that he's overwhelmed. For example, my iBook2 cannot get IPs via DHCP over either the built in ethernet or the wireless inteface. Nobody knows why. Modem works, but only after you tweak the timout values in the dialer to be certain values. How would anyone know that? It should be done by the installer if the installation platform is the iBook!
I wish that these folks would work on getting the CORE stuff working, and working well, before they start including 2000 packages on the CDs. I can download Apache, MySQL, and 18 text editors later - right now, I need a working network connection!
The "gold standard", as far as I'm concerned, is RedHat 7.2 on a Dell Inspiron. Everything worked, and I mean EVERYTHING. No tweaking, no kernel upgrade, no command line garbage. Ethernet, video, mouse, keyboard, everything. So that's what I expect, but no PPC vendor has delivered it yet.
Given the very limited hardware a PPC vendor must support, I just expect it to work. It doesn't.
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
To be fair, it seems weird for the developers to be playing with *modern* Macs, instead of 6 year old Macs, but hey, the new iBook is cool.
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
This is Linux here! You can code on a fast *or* slow Mac, thanks to NFS, X, and vi or emacs, and compile on the fastest platform available.
Essentially the point being you can own 'the fastest' Mac to do your compiling and such, but you don't actually 'need' to test it on the highest end hardware because you really want to target the lowest end hardware, meaning you should be running, writing code, and using lowest 'mean' available hardware, even if you use the highest end for compilation purposes.
Re:I don't get it (Score:1)
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
Re:Get it! (Score:2)
Oh, and when you find a better jukebox program than iTunes let me know, 'kay?
/Brian
Re:Get it! (Score:2, Interesting)
Something is wrong with that picture. Obviously ripping and encoding is going to be CPU intensive - playback should not be. One of the first things I erased from my iBook was iTunes, for exactly this reason.
iTunes is not exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Re:Get it! (Score:2)
/Brian
Re:Yellow Dog 2.2?? (Score:1)
Re:fr to fp? (Score:1, Offtopic)
KISS MY ADIDAS!!! Sho' Nuff!