Linux 2.4.13 327
Lawrence Teo writes: "Looks like Linux 2.4.13 is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."
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Linux 2.4.13
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ext3 (Score:2)
Ext3 is both distributed in the kernel and as a separate package, and I'm a bit lost : what ext3 code should we use for more reliability? Should the previous kernel be patched with the latest ext3? Does the new kernel include it? Does the latest ext3 cleanly applies to Linux 2.4.13?
I'm lost...
Re:ext3 (Score:2, Informative)
the people/alan directory. It must be in your
closest kernel mirror.
Re:ext3 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:ext3 (Score:1, Informative)
It is in the -ac patches, and just got updated,
so you can use that.
The ext3 patch should not be used, and may not apply to the current kernel. Dont use the ext3
patch unless the ext3 page states it is for
your kernel version. (or use the -ac patch which have ext3)
Chances are that ext3 soon goes into the kernel
though.
Re:ext3 (Score:1, Redundant)
Release Often? (Score:1)
There have been quite a few kernel releases in the past week or two as well as some high-profile bugs. Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?
Re:Release Often? (Score:5, Funny)
I think we all need to try to support Linus and Alan without choosing sides. Just grab the latest kernel of your choice and compile away... Try not to mention free beer on the linux kernel mailing list in the next couple weeks. Think free tea or something similar.
Re:Release Often? (Score:3, Funny)
Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.
Re:Release Often? (Score:1)
Actually I think Alan does stop by every now and then. I didn't know he was Welsh though. I'll be sure to make a note of it.
Why Release Often? (Score:2)
Well, Linus is really good about pursuing groundgreaking new technologies and trying to add them to the kernel. He is not so good at attaining rock-solid stability...
Alan Cox is the other way, though. Now that Linus is working on the 2.5 series, we can expect:
1: Fewer bugs
2: Fewer new features.
Predictions (Score:5, Funny)
"Use the mirrors!"
"Make sure you patch, don't waste bandwith!"
"Damn, there goes my uptime"
"Heh, I'm STILL running Kernel 1.2.1!"
"Does anyone NEED to use the latest kernel? What does it add?"
"Use the latest kernel! Testing is vital!"
"2.4.13? I thought Linux was at 7.2?!"
If I've forgot any, post to this thread. Hell, if you're any of the above postings, post to this thread....
Whoops. Forgot an important one. (Score:2, Funny)
Prediction lists (and their addendums)...
Re:Whoops. Forgot an important one. (Score:3, Funny)
Don't forget
Re:Predictions (Score:5, Funny)
"Hey, stop releasing new kernels so fast! I just compiled 2.4.12 yesterday."
"I downloaded it. Now what do I do?"
"When are they going to release 2.5?"
"Is there an RPM available?"
"Is it broken like kernel x.y.z?"
"Kewl."
Et cetera ad nauseum.
Re:Predictions (Score:1)
WTF!! The VM is STILL broken!!
And then of course you have the brand new religious flamewar over which color the fire will be when either the Rik or "Arch Angel" VM crashes your server..... my vote is for MS blue
Re:Predictions (Score:1)
Thimo
Re:Predictions (Score:2, Funny)
Micro$oft Re:Predictions (Score:1)
Hey.. but linux is still way more stable than windows.
Re:Predictions (Score:4, Funny)
Andreas Dilger:
Expected something better than Random Fixes???
Re:Predictions (Score:2)
patch -p1
Re:Predictions [OT] (Score:4, Funny)
chmod +x
/dev/random
Yep. That ought to do it. Hey, why is windows booting?!?
Re:Predictions (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Predictions (Score:3, Funny)
'Does this mean Alan Cox will maintain this series now, and will use the different VM ?!'
or
'When will 2.5.x be started?'
That was quick... (Score:1)
On a related note, does anyone know if any type of development on 2.5.x or (shall I say...) 3.0 is being done? Just seems that right around this time with 2.2 the 2.3 kernels were cranking up. In any event, keep 'em coming!!
Re:That was quick... (Score:2)
ChangeLog (Score:2, Troll)
- page write-out throttling
- Pete Zaitcev: ymfpci sound driver update (make Civ:CTP happy with it)
- Alan Cox: i2o sync-up
- Andrea Arcangeli: revert broken x86 smp_call_function patch
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM
pre6:
- Stephen Rothwell: APM idle time handling fixes, docbook update, cleanup
- Jeff Garzik: network driver updates
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Al Viro: UFS update, binfmt_misc rewrite.
- Andreas Dilger:
- David Miller: network/sparc updates
pre5:
- Greg KH: usbnet fix
- Johannes Erdfelt: uhci.c bulk queueing fixes
pre4:
- Al Viro: mnt_list init
- Jeff Garzik: network driver update (license tags, tulip driver)
- David Miller: sparc, net updates
- Ben Collins: firewire update
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
- Tim Hockin: MD cleanups
- Greg KH, Petko Manolov: USB updates
- Leonard Zubkoff: DAC960 driver update
pre3:
- Jens Axboe: clean up duplicate unused request list
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endianness finishing touches
- Hugh Dickins: some further swapoff fixes and cleanups
- prepare-for-Alan: move drivers/i2o into drivers/message/i2o
- Leonard Zubkoff: 2TB disk device fixes
- Paul Schroeder: mwave config enable
- Urban Widmark: fix via-rhine double free..
- Tom Rini: PPC fixes
- NIIBE Yutaka: SuperH update
pre2:
- Alan Cox: more merging
- Ben Fennema: UDF module license
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endian safeness
- Chris Mason: reiserfs O_SYNC/fsync performance improvements
- Jean Tourrilhes: wireless extension update
- Joerg Reuter: AX.25 updates
- David Miller: 64-bit DMA interfaces
pre1:
- Trond Myklebust: deadlock checking in lockd server
- Tim Waugh: fix up parport wrong #define
- Christoph Hellwig: i2c update, ext2 cleanup
- Al Viro: fix partition handling sanity check.
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
- Ben Fennema: UDF update
- Alan Cox: continued merging
- Chris Mason: get
Re:ChangeLog (Score:1)
I discovered something important for the test results I've been reporting. The mp3's that I've been listening to were not all sampled at the same rate. That means some of the comparisons are suspect.
The mp3's were sampled between 88k and 192k. I did not notice the sample rate affecting whether an mp3 skips or not. I.E. an 88k mp3 and a 192k mp3 skip about the same on a kernel/test that sputters. There probably is a difference, but it isn't obvious. So the subjective reports on sound quality are reasonable. In the future, I'll make sure comparisons that include timing are done with comparable mp3's.
Direct link to mirrors (Score:4, Redundant)
next time (Score:2)
It would be really helpful for lazy people like myself who actually use the links people post on here.
Re:next time (Score:2)
this might get +1 funny, but i assure you, it is not a joke.
Security fixes (Score:5, Informative)
-sting3r
Re:Security fixes (Score:2)
MORE ptrace vulnerabilities? I thought these were fixed [redhat.com] in 2.4.9.
Re:Security fixes (Score:3, Funny)
(Score +1; Ballsy)
:-)
Re:Security fixes (Score:2)
Wow, talk about waving the red flag in front of the bull!
You, my friend, must have balls the size of tank bearings. My hat is off to you!
Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:1)
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:1)
Oh my! The last two releases had bugs?! Gasp!
If you expect software to be totally bugfree, expect no software more advanced than hello world, and even then, greatly delayed by rigorous QA...
Seriously though, v2.4.11 was a disaster, and Linus noticed and thus released v2.4.12 as soon as he could, which IHMO was a smart move. Because of this rushed release, a few small details wasn't 100% merged (parport springs to mind), but v2.4.12 is mostly working.
Still, if you don't participate in the in between kernel QA yourself (by using the pre-patches), don't complain. Linux is made by volunteers, who do it in their spare time. Contribute instead of complaining!
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:1)
Remember, in Linux all beta-testing is *public*. If you don't want to beta test, just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize.
Max
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:1, Insightful)
A Linus release is not like a normal commercial software release. If it compiles on Linus' box, he releases it without a formal test process.
Use a RedHat kernel, which goes through a QA and stress process and contains patches which haven't made it into the main branch (often for trival reasons such as coding style or that Linus can't read all of his mail).
Not to recommend RH specifically, just that their QA process seems to be the most robust. SuSE or Debian would probably also be good.
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:2)
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay.... (Score:2)
Joystick still broken (Score:1)
Oh jeeze, stupid slashdot says there's too many junk characters. You're going to have to manually make these changes, then I guess, since it won't take the diff format.
in linux/drivers/char/joystick/analog.c
change
#define GET_TIME(x) do { if (TSC_PRESENT) rdtscl(x); else outb(0, 0x43); x = inb(0x40); x |= inb(0x40) speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k", (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed);
to all of this
port->speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k",
port->speed > 10000 ? (port->loop * 1000) / (port->speed / 1000) : (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed); }
Re:Joystick still broken (Score:1)
No, as Linus has explained time and time again on the list, he does not "sit" on stuff. If a submitted patch hasn't gone into the next two or three pre-patches, it's because he's dropped it, either due to too much e-mail (the most common reason), missing/bad description of what it does (second most common) or bad/unwanted code (not too common.)
So, most presumably, Vojtech submitted the patch, but didn't resubmit it when Linus didn't react. Or, he submitted it to Alan only. And since Linus doesn't forward patches to Linus unless explicitly asked to if the subsystem has a maintainer, the patch probably got stuck there.
Re:Joystick still broken (Score:1)
Slashdot ate the code, here is a link (Score:2)
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0
Hello Linus? Wake up? How about some reacting on feedback?
Hello CmdrWacko? How about a less intrusive filter?
Wrong Link, use this one: (Score:2)
The Despair of NFS (Score:5, Funny)
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
I'm sure NFS won't mind using SLAB_NOFS, but it's cruel to prohibit it from playing games with PF_MEMALLOC. NFS has reached the point where playing games with PF_MEMALLOC is the sole respite from the drudgery of its mundane life. None of the other protocols will play with it since the Trivial Pursuit incident of 1998, and it's banned from EQ for excessive Britishing.
Sure, we've all been inconvenienced a little now and again when NFS is playing games with PF_MEMALLOC, but it wasn't that bad, and it brought a glimmer of joy into NFS's otherwise bleak existence. Now NFS will be forced to sit alone in its room playing X Bill all alone until it goes mad and starts initializing remote filesystems at random.
Then where will we be?
Trond Myklebust, I hope you're happy with yourself. What did NFS ever do to you? It's just cruel, and we'll all have to deal with the consequences when people start running NFS on 2.4.13. You should be ashamed.
*telekon
I like fast updates (Score:1)
Mee too (Score:5, Funny)
if(new_kernel_arrived) {
version=X.Y.ZZ
if(slow_week) {
version=X.Y.ZZ-preWW
}
print "Looks like Linux X.Y.ZZ is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."
if(CmdrTaco just upgraded to ZZ-1 ||
weekday=tuesday) {
print "This is lame."
} else {
print "Grab. Test. Enjoy"
}
}
Merging parts of VM patch? (Score:1)
The good news is that Linus seems ready to hand 2.4.x over to Alan. From the latest Kernel Traffic [zork.net] Linus was quoted as saying:
It seems that Linus is going to do the same thing that he did with the 2.2.x kernels, make a mess out of them (especially VM), have a few back-to-back releases, then hand the whole thing over to Alan.Re:Merging parts of VM patch? (Score:1)
Re:Merging parts of VM patch? (Score:1)
Linus may well be one of the better coders in the world (I'm certainly no judge of that), but I don't think he has the patience to maintain anything. He's creative, he want's to go somewhere with Linux, some call him a visionary. Someone like that needs to use their creative energies, they need to develop something. The slow drudgery that maintaining (bug fixing) a project requires is not him.
Re:Merging parts of VM patch? (Score:1)
Which releases are production stable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:1)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:2)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:1)
Then use the latest in the stable tree. By definition, this is the one handed over to the stable kernel maintainer (Alan Cox). At the moment it's the 2.2.x series. When Linus decides 2.4.x is "production" ready, he'll hand it over to Alan & open 2.5.x (unless he decides to call it "Linux YQ" or something :)).
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:2)
I think people need to realize that brand new kernels are like software 'release candidates'. In the case of Linux kernels they are made available to everyone for testing therefore they get somewhat widely tested. When [Debian|RedHat|SuSE] determine that a kernel is ready for prime-time they incorporate the kernel into their distribution and/or release it as an upgrade. These kernels should be though of as 'final realeases.'
As always, even with final releases of ANY software, there is no guarantee of 'buglessness.' <g> You really never know how software is going to react in your own environment until you actually test it.
It's really unreasonable for people to expect any kind of guarantee of stability from software that was realeased in the last 24 hours and hasn't been widely tested.
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:2)
Linus used to release new kernels daily. In fact, it was part of the foundation for The Cathedral And The Bazaar [tuxedo.org]. It's a feature, not a bug. 8^)
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:3, Informative)
For a production enviroment, I would get a Red Hat or SUSE (or any other large distributor's) kernel and just use that. They are heavily tested and heavily used kernels.
I for one would not upgrade to 2.4 on a serious production server yet unless thier is something 2.2 is missing that you need.
2.4 is viable for production but requires thought (Score:2)
Hash: SHA1
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.
I can't say that I blame you (although your reason of "fast releases" not inspiring confidence is IMHO misguided)
I do use 2.4 in production in several environments, but in order to assure you have a stable kernel you need to do more than just dowload the latest and greatest.
I too have been irritated with some of the overreaching changes in a kernel series that is supposed to be stable (2.0 and 2.2. were very solid, some 2.4 kernels can be used in critical environments, but others cannot), but have found the above mentioned precuations/practices sufficient to avoid getting burned by the unstable releases which have appeared from time to time (eg 2.4.11), and 2.4 does
have a number of features that make it very, very useful in many production situations.
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Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:4, Insightful)
You should probably think of the stable kernels as just that: stable. That doesn't mean they are ready for prime-time. It's more like a "stable branch". You expect this to be the branch from which the distributions will craft The Right Kernel for their platforms.
Should you use such a kernel, then? Yes, but only if a) you're in a non-mission-critical situation or b) you "must have" a certain bug-fix and are willing to put in the Q/A yourself.
Think of the linux kernel as released on kernel.org like Mozilla. This is like a milestone release. Netscape will come out with something based on it which has Java, Flash, some back-ported bug fixes from later nightlies, etc. The corporate user should probably wait and go with a Netscape release, but here I am submitting this comment from a nightly
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:2, Funny)
Aw, hell, even Darwin sounds better than the holy hell that a Linux kernel update can bring. The current yelling in here makes me wonder if the yellers should just blow up their PCs and use an abacus.
But then, they would be back, complaining that they can't use their DVD or joysticks with their abacus, and want the latest abacus kernel...
/./././.
Re:Which releases are production stable? (Score:2)
If Linus shipped the kernel, it's not production.
If Alan did, and it doesn't have an -ac after it, it's production.
Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:1, Offtopic)
dave
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:1)
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:2)
I've read a few of your responses and I must say you've got a pretty negative attitude. Is that really the impression you mean to give us?
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:2)
It's a nice sentiment, but only a small portion of people with Tourette's curse. For most people, it causes them to repeat actions several times, or to touch things near them repeatedly.
I knew a guy in college with Tourette's - he generally never told anyone because they then kept expecting him to launch a blue streak, or simply didn't believe him. He had a heck of a time using a mouse; everytime he was done, he kept grabbing it, and had to make an effort to quit and go back to the keyboard. Kinda like physical stuttering.
--
Evan
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2! (Score:2)
I'm glad, though, because it looks as if, on your first postings to slashdot, you karma has been chopped down to minus a lot.
yours very sincerely,
dave.
ps. I know I'll lose karma for this, I lost it for my first comment, but someone has to inform the lusers what they're doing wrong.
Lemme guess... (Score:1, Funny)
Alan's branch (Score:5, Interesting)
As for stability, the Linus' releases don't seem to be formally tested anyway. Maybe Linus is more conservative in applying patches before the release, but the recent events (2.4.11 and 2.4.12) show that the kernel may not compile in a common configuration and be released notwithstanding.
Linus interview on osnews.com (Score:2, Funny)
Linus:I couldn't care less.
Q.But that's the second time that happens in 2 weeks (2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11). Are you sure there is not a problem with the 2.4 branch?
Linus:See my answer to the previous question.
Notorious 2.4.11 (Score:1)
Re:Notorious 2.4.11 (Score:1)
Other reason for using of this kernel is the fact that it's the first one for me which doesn't lockup completely with NVidias drivers.
What bothers me is not the frequency of releases.. (Score:1)
2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11 to fix a bug that happens in a particular situation that happily nobody uses [alaska.edu]
Then 2.4.12 had a bug that broke the parport module, which unhappilly affects almost everyone who compiles a kernel, and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!
IANAQAE (I am not a QA expert), but that doesn't sound good to me...
Re:What bothers me is not the frequency of release (Score:2)
Actually, there was a patch out the same day, available from all good kernel mirrors.
TWW
Tips for Testing and Those New to Kernels (Score:5, Informative)
If you are new to installing your own kernel, or you want to get started on kernel programming, see http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ [kernelnewbies.org] and join them on IRC in #kernelnewbies on the Open Projects Network.
Also helpful to newbies, or to convince you it's worthwhile to help with testing, is my other article Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel [sunsite.dk].
And finally there is the Kernel HOWTO [linuxdoc.org].
If you'd like to program or debug the kernel, I recommend a couple of books:
Mirror (Score:2, Informative)
http://beresm.stu.rpi.edu/~mike/linux-2.4.13.tar.
Taking bets now: 2.4.X 2.2.Y (Score:1)
bttv? (Score:3, Interesting)
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
@whee. Sounds good.
I just wish that some day I will see a working Linux bttv driver. For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use. (MainActor has been best so far - it only drops a few frames, almost gets perfect video quality, almost keeps A&V in sync and almost saves in format that can be read to Virtualdub in Windows, or any other Win32 editing app).
I need to use Windows programs to do video captures, which technically isn't nice either because the driver really doesn't work perfectly there either - it either works perfectly or not at all, depending on the phase of the moon.
Better multimedia support is always nice. One day, I will be able to use Linux for everything. =)
I've been using vcr (Score:2)
There's a nice symbiosis there, because the Windows bttv driver generally bluescreens on me within the first minute or two of recording. I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't dual booting.
Re:bttv? (Score:2)
I haven't asked a stupid question all day, so now's my chance.
Are the frame drops related to the low-latency stuff? Ie, perhaps the card only has so much buffer space, and linux takes too long to read it?
I admit, it sounds weak, as memory is cheap and I would expect the card to DMA the stuff into main memory... but hey, it IS a possible explanation.
lm_sensors & i2c (Score:2)
It's probably wise to do that every time, but I've been able to get away with "make clean all install" until now.
kernel pre-emption patch (Score:5, Informative)
Even if you don't want to use the patch, you might want to try renicing X negatively to make it feel a bit snappier.
Re:kernel pre-emption patch (Score:2)
Schweeeeee-eeeett (Score:2)
Re:CVS (Score:1)
Re:CVS (Score:1)
How the **** do you apply the patches? I've never had a single problem so far. My typical patch-procedure:
cd linux-2.4.12bzcat
cd
mv linux-2.4.12 linux-2.4.13
Should take care of everything.
Re:CVS (Score:1, Informative)
/usr/src# cp -av linux-2.4.1[23]
/usr/src# cd linux-2.4.13
/usr/src/linux-2.4.13# bzcat
This lets me have a backup of 2.4.12 just in case.
Re:CVS (Score:2)
If you had provided an example of your pains with patching you would have got a much more detailed reply from somebody. Thoughts to ponder...
Re:CVS (Score:4, Informative)
1) make sure your kernel source lies in a directory called 'linux'
EG.
2) Now goto the parent directory (eg
3) Now execute the following commond with the downloded patch (be sure you have write permissions in the linux subdirectory)
$ bzip2 -cd | patch -p0
(that is p zero at the end)
Remeber that patches are incremental, so you have to patch from 2.4.10 to 2.4.11, and then to 2.4.12, and not directly with a single patch to 2.4.10
I have personally patched all the kernel relases (from 2.4.1 till 2.4.12) this way, and it worked every time.
If you stil have problems, do get back to me, and I'll help you
Re:CVS (Score:2)
Here is a hint to use patches
That's an okay hint, but why not try this? I've been doing it since the early 2.2 kernels:
From there, I copy arch/i386/boot/bzImage
I find this is the cleanest and fastest way to patch a kernel. The patch-kernel script will stop if it runs into trouble and you can try to fix it. Be sure to remove any .rej and .orig files before rerunning the patch-kernel script or it will think there's still trouble.
Why not. (Score:2)
Secondly... I dunno what your problem with patches is.. but I've been patching for about 9 years, and had very few problems; and those problems are usually due to some foreign patch I applied previously.
And why do you upgrade your kernel every week? That's rediculous. There is no need for it. There are plenty of stable kernels out there you can use.
Use a patch (Score:2)
try this from the csh and get:
Hey: no match.
(works better with Got a light?)
Re:CVS (Score:2)
Slightly OT, but what would be handy for people like me who can't code worth shit are utilities like mkpatch.pl in the lm_sensors package that make a custom patch for whatever your current kernel source is.
Re:ptrace vulnerability fixed? (Score:2, Redundant)
-sting3r
Re:Linux Rocks (Score:2, Insightful)
FreeBSD? (Score:2, Interesting)
But I still wonder why has FreeBSD had a stable
rw support for NTFS, and the linux kernel is still
lagging...
I mean, can't they copy^H^H^H^Hmodel it after
the BSD code like they have done in some many cases?