Design A Standard For the Linux Standards Base 79
The widely reknowned HeUnique points to this LinuxWorld article, writing: "LSB wants to ask the Linux community people -- well, the artists among them -- to create an LSB logo." Rather cool to see a contest one of the rules of which is "All submissions must be created using Linux and native Linux tools. Frankly, most of us don't have a clue about how to check for violations. Just do it. We trust you." You've got until March 1st to submit two copies of your award-worthy artwork. See that LinuxWorld site for the full schmear, though. The LSB has been quiet for a little while, hopefully this contest hints (like the article does) at some action in the near future.
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:2)
Re:Sure it would, why not? (Score:1)
You can make really nice logo's with just black, white (the paper color) and a Pantone color, and they're cheap to produce, since when you go to print, you're only doing 2 colors. Without letting people use such tools as Panton, LSB's going to have to make sure that the only time their logo appears is if it's in a 4 color (CMYK) spot, which costs much more money...
But the biggest thing by far is that of vector graphics. I've hated getting TIFF versions of logo's that some college student produced for a company once, only to go back to the company asking if they've got an EPS version, because the TIFF version is not the right size, and then having to explain that i'll basically have to recreate their logo for them in a vector based program because of that...
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
It's all about the best tool for the job, and LSB is making sure that no one will use the best tools available. Do they want a nice logo? Or do they want a perfectly cheesy attempt at one?
Re:I call this monopoly!!! (Score:1)
Give it up. If they want a logo, they should ask for a logo. Give specifications on what they'ed liek to receive in the end, which they did - an EPS and a TIFF. And then let the designers do it however they'ed like. They're already getting a great deal in that they're getting a free logo. Corporate branding is a very lucrative business, don't forget.
Re:Sure it would, why not? (Score:2)
I didn't say a damned thing about the GIMP. I like the GIMP. I use the GIMP.
For making any sort of logo or image that is going to be printed in a wide arrangement of sizes, you **HAVE** to use a vector format or all you'll end up printing is a blurry smudge.
And I'd LOVE to see you try and print some professional level brochures and what not with the GIMP. No CMYK color-space you say? Oh, well, I guess I'll just have to use my BLOATED software on another platform that actually is geared towards designers.
Hmm.. streaming media company. What company would that be? Would you mind posting a link to some of your work perhaps?
Rami
0o0o0o0o
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:2)
Native Linux Tools (Score:1)
Re:Suggestion (Score:1)
This would have to be an animated gif, of course.
However, given that only Linux tools are permitted, I shall go out on a limb and predict the winning entry will be "LSB" rendered in an obscure font, filtered through a few random kung fu gimp filters executed in a random order and impossible to recreate because the winner was too busy exploring an artistic theme to remember what he was doing.
Of course, the fabulously funded LSB could always solicit professional designs from professional designers but that would cut too deeply into their stock value. Besides, didnt RedHat already give a lucky few of their open source friends some stock!? I mean, how much longer are they going to have to pay to distribute this Linux crap? Wasnt Open Source supposed to be Free (of expenses and labor?)
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Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:2)
Re:Hmmm, I see the spacetime fabric tearing... (Score:1)
LSB Logo (Score:1)
----Begin Quote----
From: "Patrick J. Volkerding"
To: current@plains.NoDak.edu
Subject: Re: LSB Comment?
Feel free to go ahead and act like an authority. My $0.02 on this is that it's yet another effort to cram a lame standard down our throats.
There wouldn't be so many competing standards in Linux anyway if newer distributions like Red Hat, Caldera, Debian, et al had had some respect for the adhoc standards that went before them. As it is, I think the proposed Linux Standard Base is a sham. I doubt any attention will be given to standards that have existed in UNIX for decades; it will just be a discussion over which of the new, made up standards like RPM,
In light of the fact that I already have more important ways to spend my time than getting in an extended flame-war, I've told them I do not intend to participate. I think the resulting standard will not be acceptable in terms of the Slackware philosophy of doing things in a traditional UNIX way regardless of whether I'm involved in the discussion. I think it's obvious that the "standard" will be virtually identical to Debian's structure. Since they have the most developers (anyone can sign up), they'll likely have far more votes than any other organization. I expect them to dominate the whole process.
So, for these reasons, count me totally opposed. I mean, if there'd been all these committees and pseudo-standards early in Linux development, I suspect the whole thing would have gone nowhere. I wouldn't have wanted to help. Linux is a great example of successful anarchy, and at least my end of it will stay that way.
BTW, feel free to quote me on this.
Take care,
Pat
----end quote----
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:1)
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:1)
Is there a Linux Illustrator clone? (Score:1)
Photoshop => GIMP
Illustrator => ???
Steven
Re:My Entertainment for the day... (Score:1)
I'm not a graphic designer, but I find it hard to believe that it took millions of dollars to create "FedEx" in purple and gray, with the left side of the E matching up with the right side of the d. Personally, I've seen the logo a hundred times but never even remembered what it looked like just now until I went to their web site (obviously http://www.fedex.com [fedex.com]. This is one of the goals to creating a logo - to have people remember what it looks like (Nike did a great job). Basically if you are right about the money spent I believe it was a waste.
Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:1)
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
Needless to say, if Microsoft ever puts out their own rehash of Linux, it's going to be hard to turn a corner without seeing a "Winux" magazine out there.
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
(It must be noted that "the best way that you can" doesn't always involve commercial software. If you can't afford to purchase Illustrator, then you can't very well use it as one of your options... in some cases free software is the ONLY way for an individual/group to accomlish his/her/their goals.)
Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:2)
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:2)
Hmmm, I see the spacetime fabric tearing... (Score:2)
Ironically, old Cray computers were developed using a lot of Macs.
This kind of circular time travel must stop at once, or I will report it to the timecops!
Seriously, how can you tell on which machine a design was made? There was a time when saying something was "computer designed" gave it an aura of technological sophistication, but that was long before most /.ers were born.
Of course, sometimes it's easy. To tell if a website was designed using microsoft software, look for the telltale '?' symbols that appear where quotation marks should be.
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
And you also could use 3D tools to make something : POV, Blender, Houdini (never seen it, but I heard they made a linux version).
This could be a nice test for all the gfx soft out there in linux land (or is that a peninsula?).
Vector Illustration Tools for Linux? (Score:2)
I assume it is possible to export to an EPS directly from GIMP, but this is hardly any more than a raster inclusion into a "scalable" PS file. I would think (correct me if i'm wrong) that it is no more resizeable than a high-res TIFF.
I hope to enter something myself, but I ususally do my design work in Windows/Macintosh and use my Linux machine for hacking unix (or learning/trying to do so, anyways
So, anyone know of some good vector illustration programs for linux ala Freehand or Illustrator?
BTW, I guess designing the logo on the Mac and then "reproducing" it from scratch on the Linux machine is out of the question?
Alex Diaz
Why not use the best tools for the job? (Score:1)
Although the comparison in this IRC quote isn't exactly along the lines of what's going on here with this nonsensical requirement, I think it sums up the point well enough:
(Quotes from: http://www.2600.org.au/logs/quotes.txt [2600.org.au])
LSB held hostage... (Score:3)
Bah. The *ORIGINAL* selling out happened long [telly.org] before.
Just like the 1980's "Great Unix Unification" effort, when UNIX was going to have 'one interface' and be able to act as 'one market', the common binary on X86 effort was to obtain Unity. With this Unity, developers could be approached and told "write once, to this standard. Run all of these places."
The in-fighting and "use our implementation" ended up with "linux ELF" as the "standard". Ok fine.
The LSB group will NEVER obtain a workable standard because it is not SEEN to be in the interest of the bigger players in the linux market to allow the smaller players a "software stamp of approval". The "runs on redhat" stamp makes the use of RedHat a "supported option" instead of unsuported in the case of the other 180+ linux distros. And to choose "supported" or "unsupported" is an easy choice.
The LSB will only obtain the reluctant approval of RedHat and their bretheren when some outside force makes them feel their existance is threatened. At the moment, nothing like this exists. And the feeling that "Open source will take over - hence Linux will take over" makes a waiting game a win for RedHat and the other big players.
The LSB (or whatever standard replaces it) should be a standard anyone can Bake-Off their binary application against. And, any of the linux distros of the week should be able to run said application that was Baked-off VS the LSB.
If the "Linux community" (as opposed to the GNU/Linux community) wanted to show they had some balls, they'd:
1) Pubically throw up their hands and say "for 2+ years of effort, we have nothing to show, therefore this process is a failure."
2) Admit that "The goal however is worthwhile"
3) Point to the Linux emulation/compatibility modes of SCO/BSD/Sun and state "These are your bake off targets" under the idea that "If your Linux binaries can run on these machines, they should run anyplace else." Becasue for all the talk about how 'quickly' the 'open source world' can move, movement on the LSB has not happened. Code exists to provide a 'bake off' standard.
At a minimum, a "standard" would allow for more companies to have one less excuse to *NOT* produce programs that run on the "non Microsoft, non Macintosh" platforms. At a maximum, RedHat and others would see such a declaration as a 'threat' and actually MOVE to publish a "sanctioned standard". A standard the SCO/BSD/Sun would be able to get behind. A standard that can GROW the whole market.
Re:Sure it would, why not? (Score:1)
Gimp is not suitable for designing icons and logos. It is not even meant to be.
I do graphics for a streaming media company
uhhhhhhm........No.. I won't... no comment.
And so you have this opinion about Illustrator. Well...
When opensource programmers write a vector illustration program that does what Illustrator does, and does it markedly faster and better then you can maybe call Illustrator bloatware. Til then you're just another OSS sturmtrooper beating your chest with the Tux salute chanting commercial software bad, OSS good. Meanwhile the rest of the world will be getting their design work done with tools that work, even if they cost money. And will probably consider that money well spent if they know anything about the free alternatives.
Lone Smurf is dead on:
The Linux Standards Base people have done something so thoroughly Bush League here, it boggles. IT BOGGLES! 99.999% of the young designers in the world, talented or otherwise, who would have an incentive to donate their work on a graphic identity for LSB so they could put it in their book, just got the door slammed in their face. And who's left now? People who don't or probably can't make graphic design their trade. Sure they'll contribute! But so what? They'll contribute something a first year design student would be embarassed to turn in as a weekly project. I would be gasping in astonishment but really on second thought it is so like OSS zealots to do something stupid and totalitarian like this. I neverlike to make broad sweeping statements, but All graphic marks, logos, icons &etc. associated with Linux suck ASS, and the reason, I'm afraid to say, is that Linux people generally don't know enough to know how far out of their element they are in matters graphical or artisitic and fail to recognize that they need someone different to help.
So what's next in the Long March to Purity of Essence ?
Apache webservers that will stop serving pages created by Dreamweaver or other non-OSS programs?
Hey LSB! why not just put a big stamp on everything you do that goes out in the world to be seen that says "We're unprofessional, that's right! We don't care what is best. We're simply about inbred purity.
We are not an official industry-standards body with standing to be reckoned with, we're just an informal bunch of busybodies who send out nuisance flyers occasionally when we aren't trying to kill each other. Dismiss us! ".
Hey Nick Petreley! Way to tell the commercial software world how welcome they are in the Linux market! Way to go buddy!
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:1)
I guess i wasn't clear in that ramble... Sorry, but it's sunday early afternoon and i'm not functioning yet
My Entertainment for the day... (Score:5)
First: Its absolutely idiotic to demand the logo be created in Linux. I mean, I know there are a lot of k3w1 linux kids out there who just love to get down with the gimp, but lets face reality here: if your goal is to have a good, professional logo that reflects well on the companies and community, dont set artificial limitations on the toolset. If you want some half-assed gimp graphic ("Look, your logo's on fire!") then by all means eliminate from consideration anyone who knows what they are doing.
Second: Please, dear god, everyone stop talking about specs.
Having Petreley say "Four colors or less often works quite well" is as annoying to a designer as saying "Try to keep the buffer overflows to a minimum" would be to a programmer. If anyone is planning on using Hexachrome for their logo design (or more than 4 spots), I'd love to know about it so I can be sure to never, ever work on a project with you ("what do you mean my business card will cost $10,000 to print?")
For those of you who can't figure out the issue between eps and TIFF, don't sweat it but please stop suggesting that you can just resample a TIFF to make it fit at any size. You can't. Yes, you can put a TIFF in an eps (hell, you could put the entire encyclopedia brittanica in an eps -- its just a wrapper format, like quicktime), no it won't make it scale any better. We'll just assume that when they ask for an eps that they are really asking for some vector graphic file in an eps format.
For future Consideration:
The kinds of things that might actually get you a good logo are never mentioned, presumably because they don't know the questions to ask (consider someone telling you to write a program for them, telling how many lines the source should be, what compiler to use, and never telling you what its for!).
What is wrong/disliked about the current logo? It does look very MS-office-ish (similar to the intelocking puzzle pieces) but is that the only thing they didn't like? Do they want something that conveys cooperation, cutting edge technology, stability, or what? These are all very different concepts, with different ways of representing them. If you focus on making an identity that highlights cooperation, you're making a trade-off against a feeling of speed and cuttin-edge tech. So which do they prefer? Damned if I know, they just want it at 640x480.
We seem to go through these same messages every time an article on GUI, logos, etc comes up here -- its fine if programmers don't want to know about how that stuff works, but its more than just a "pretty picture". Fedex did not spend millions of dollars redesigning their logo in the 90s because they wanted it to be "prettier". Having a window manager with "more colors" does not enhace the GUI.
Focus on what you are actually trying to do, and what you want to communicate -- not what color it should be (here's a design hint: if it matters what color your logo is, your logo IS BROKEN)
In a typical identity project, this would be an iterative process -- you'd bring one design for "cooperaton", one for "high-tech", etc -- and discuss with the client which they prefer, why, and then go back and incorporate the feedback. This is a one-shot deal, equivelent to programming an application without ever talking to the user, without having a beta test, and just dropping off an executable, never to be seen again. Sounds like a project I'm sure most programmers would LOVE to work on, right?
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Re:LSB held hostage... (Score:2)
Oh my God! COMMERCIAL software! How horrible! Like Red Hat, Ximian Gnome, eSmith... oh, wait, you shouted before you thought and forgot [like so many in the OS community do] that Open-Source != Non Commercial. The opposite of Open Source is closed source or proprietary.
If you're complaining about proprietary software, some of us use Linux because it happens to be the best tool for the job. This is a result of being open source but not all Open Source projects are guaranteed to be so. Some simply don't have enough developers working on them [over a thousand work on the kernel, 25 work on koffice].
I use Microsoft Word for the same reason I use Linux. Its the best tool for the job. StarOffice can't do a word count on a selection - I need that for section and page layout guidelines given by my writing briefs. Corel WPO2K is too slow and not wonderfully stable. Abiword isn't compete. Applixware has an annoying interface and poor Microsoft importing abilitities.
Re:LSB Still Alive? (Score:3)
Good grief, quit complaining. If Linux get unified that would be a *good* thing, both for companies, and users. Not many people give a flying f*ck about tailoring their distro to their exact wants. Most people just want to use something that works well, without fussing with it. For these people, and LSB standard is a good thing. And for those people who couldn't stand a standard, well, Linux is free for a reason. The Debians and Slackwares of the world will always be around to annoy monolithic, all consuming companies like RedHat. Ideally, the LSB would write a strong standard, distros (but not all of them!) would follow it, and the free nature of Linux could be harnessed to keep the standard from becoming crappy.
Re:I call this monopoly!!! (Score:1)
They're switching over to Win2000. First time my account was 'temporarily unaccessible' in months.
Re:My Entertainment for the day... (Score:3)
That said -- yes, hundreds of thousands of dollars of time WAS spent on the logo alone. They went through I believe at least a few thousand different designs and permutations over the course of two years or so before the final was reached.
I understand that you think "creating a logo" means typing the company name in to a program, picking pretty colors and a kewl font, and calling it a day. That's exactly what my first post was about -- it is nothing like that at all, it is a rigorous process with many steps (assuming you want it to be successful).
AC also pointed out the forward-pointing arrow between the "e" and the "x" in FedEx, which is a fantastic design point that you don't appreciate consciously but is not insignificant. many of those kinds of decisions go into a decent logo.
This is one of the goals to creating a logo - to have people remember what it looks like
Not really, the goal is to have it associated in your mind with positive attributes and the company.
Remembering off the top of your head what FedEx's logo looks like is nowehere near as important to them as for you to see their logo and think "FedEx -- fast, forward-moving, modern, large, dependable, reliable, professional, international". You don't have to remember the Nike Swoosh to see it and think "Fast, agile, dynamic, energetic".
Basically if you are right about the money spent I believe it was a waste
You're not alone in this view -- which is a major reason (no I'm not eggagerating) of why Linux won't succeed in the consumer market. It looks unprofessional, it looks like a hobby, a toy, and totally unreliable. The logos are amateur scribblings of penguins that are badly rendered and put through cheap photoshop and gimp filters. For all the hundreds of window managers and desktops, not one of them looks professional and coherent. They all look like gee-whiz 3-d graduate student projects, not like finished products.
Basically if you are right about the money spent I believe it was a waste
Fedex saves several hundred thousand a year just from how much more efficient it is for them to print their paper forms after the redesign.
If you think design is only about Times versus Helvetica, though, I suppose you'd be right...
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Why does GIMP rhyme with limp? (Score:1)
it would be so NOT cool if..... (Score:1)
NewsForge (Score:1)
Linuxworld invites you to design the LSB logo [linuxworld.com]. "The winner will be announced on LinuxWorld.com and will become eligible for an award given at the August LinuxWorld Conference and Expo in San Francisco. Best of all, this logo will appear on every Linux product box that conforms to the LSB standard." Not too much extra info there though :-(
When will they grow up? (Score:5)
Re:I call this monopoly!!! (Score:1)
I call this monopoly!!! (Score:4)
All submissions must be created using Linux and native Linux tools
Just another example of how the Linux industries discriminates and unfairly competes against those who choose not to use its tools.
sub Save your precious mod points, I am joking subDumb (Score:3)
Whoaaa, that's the dumbest thing I've heared for a long time. That's like Ford hiring a contract product designer to work on their new car and requiring that the product designer drive a Ford.
Now, if this were, say, the Gimp, looking for a new logo then there'd be _some_ sense in it. It would be like Ford requiring that their travelling sales staff drive Ford cars.
You know, I'd bet that 90% of all Microsoft Marketing output is done on Macs, since that's what most advertising creative departments use. And I bet Microsoft really doesn't care about that because it's looking for an end product that's of high quality, not high ideology.
LSB Still Alive? (Score:4)
-Karl
Suggestion (Score:1)
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:1)
Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:2)
I'm probably showing my ignorance, but is there a Gimp of the Illustrators/Freehands out there? And if not, why not?
Re:LSB Still Alive? (Score:1)
Re:I call this monopoly!!! (Score:2)
Lets see 'native linux tools'
Given most of the tools used on a Linux distro are Unix tools 1st and formost, such a grand statement shows how 'out of touch' the "linux community" is.
Re:LSB Still Alive? (Score:1)
Sure it would, why not? (Score:3)
And why not? I am a graphic designer by trade and hobby, and I would love to submit something into this contest, but I can't because the tools and the operating system that I love and use (MacOS and adobe products) are not "supported".
The LSB is shooting itself in the foot with this one. I think that some of the most talented people out there are in a similar situation as myself and the LSB is going to end up with a subpar selection of logos to choose a winner from because of it.
Linux may be a great server, a wonderful programming environment and an OK desktop, but the one thing that it is not is a graphics workstation.
And until they have a decent, full featured vector illustration program you won't see me or much of my fellow trades(wo)men working on linux.
Rami
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Dog food (Score:2)
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Re:Smart (Score:2)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Except, not really. Nobody even knows what the people behind the scenes use. A lot of people at the MS campus use *NIX. MS really doesn't care as long as they get a good product.
This is much worse when you have Linux advocates making logos using Windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Who cares? Isn't Linux about using the best product for the job? I don't know when Linux became a religion, but last thing I heard, people used it because it was better/freer/cheaper, not because it was anything not Windows.
Linux has very good graphics software and unless people are willing to spring for $2,000 profesional rendering pacages you are not likely to get much better results on other platforms.
>>>>>>>>
Except not really. For anything 3D, Linux is out until Maya gets ported. (Yea right, Blender, don't make me laugh.) Then there is the GIMP==Photoshop arguement. Ha ha, funny. Also, anybody who is in the graphics arts business already has Photoshop, so its not a new investment. Of course, the logo is going to end up being some amaturish spiral, so its not like what tool is used matters anyway.
PS> Yes, that's the whole problem with Linux. Crappy logos. For example...
A) The X logo. Black and what? How '80's of them. Oh wait...
B) The Redhat logo. Two tone? No style whatsoever.
C) The Debian logo. A spiral? How damn creative.
D) The Mandrake logos: Good grief, if I see any more purple cartoon penguins, I'll scream.
E) The freaking penguin: I'm sorry, but compared to the BSD Daemon, Sting (an unofficail BeOS mascot), or even the flying Windows, Tux just look uncool. Needs to lose some weight too.
Re:NewsForge (Score:3)
You dont have have to agree, in which case you can revel in the irony that the gnu poster boy - Linux - is a cesspool of competing commercial insterests which serve no one but individual distributions.
Debian is as close to FreeBSD (in intent, not necessarily quality) as Linux is ever going to get. This LSB is wasted effort.
Fuck em.
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Re:I call this monopoly!!! (Score:2)
>>>>>>>>>>>
Or like using BSD to run Hotmail?
Re:LSB Still Alive? (Score:1)
The Debians and Slackwares of the world will always be around to annoy monolithic, all consuming companies like RedHat.
god forbid that some Linux distros actually become COMPATIBLE and CONSISTANT
I believe Slackware is still boycotting the LSB, with their initial statement that it's just a waste of time, and they would rather spend time on something real like POSIX or UNIX98.
I'm probably going to have to take the side that Patrick Volkerding was right 2 years ago when he said it's a waste of time. The LSB is just not making a dent. Yes, the goal is nobel, but the methods of the LSB seem confused and ineffective.
Re:Limited only by the power of your imagination. (Score:1)
No offense, but what do any of the tools you mention have to do with creating non-amateurish logos for companies/organizations? It doesn't seem like any such tools for Linux exist right now.
Cheers,
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:2)
That's pretty trollish, man.
Do you think that Tux is a "perfectly cheesy attempt" at a logo? It's been pretty damn successful thus far. There are few magazine racks where I don't see Tux splattered everywhere. You simply don't see Microsoft or Windows logos spread out like that.
Well, Tux was entirely generated in the GIMP, so I guess it's not "nice" in your definition...
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
Try Lost Continent.
Unfortunately, gfx for Linux are going in reverse lately -what with Microsoft's monopolistic absorption of COrel, and the general contraction in tech land. Deneba has silently dropped and expunged any record of their WINE based Canvas7 beta for Linux. Adobe has dropped their beta for Framemaker for Linux which sort of bodes ill for any further ports from them.
We don't like to talk about it much around here, this being Slashdot, but the Linux gfx desktop has flamed out and died.
(3d stuff is still coming along though)
Most of those programs were alpha as hell, but what's left made them look very desirable.
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:2)
I have it and it runs pretty damn well, except for the fact that it refuses to install under SuSE 7.0 for some strange reason...
Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:1)
No kidding, I can't believe that got an "Insightful." Ever seen a Mandrake box in a store? It reeks of amateurism. The only things I've seen in stores that look like they might've been produced by professionals (not that they're great, but passable) are the boxes for Corel's and Red Hat's distributions. Anyone know what software they used? I'd bet money that Corel didn't use Linux tools; as far as Red Hat goes, I have no idea.
Cheers,
Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:1)
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/images/util6.gif and
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/images/util7.gif (both found on their website).
All other redesigns of TuX have been insipid while Mandrakesoft's redesign of the Linux penguin is funny, expressive and provides positive image of Linux.
I don't know about you but I read this as ... (Score:1)
It's the inclusion of the line "Frankly, most of us don't have a clue about how to check for violations. Just do it. We trust you." that has me wondering - it's not really needed and the whole thing would be much more effective without it so why put it there? From their point of view it would be bad press if they had to admit that Linux wasn't up to it (and arguably it can't beat the MacOS tools out there for high end stuff).There was a similar thing going on with Linux Journal and why they didn't use Linux tools to do the layout of the magazine. Doesn't mean Linux can't do the logo - I was considering using Blender which I think is capable of some good stuff [core.org.au] (note the link is on "stuff", not "good" =)).
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Re:LSB Still Alive? (Score:2)
Re:Is there a vector art app for Linux? (Score:2)
Re:Would be so cool if... (Score:2)
Re:Sure it would, why not? (Score:1)
2. Adobe makes sucky products.
3. Mac's processor is designed for
3d, audio, etc... It can do it better than a PC.
4. Sun's Sparc2 workstation is desinged for the same.
5. I use gimp, and it is by FAR a better renderer than photoshop and takes 1/2 the time to render than the bloated adobe products.
I don't give a damn what OS you use to make graphics. They all perform the same. Its X11 that does the REAL work behind the picture. Sun.com. Looks to me like they used Gimp.
native linux tools... (Score:1)
What if I want to draw my logo, then scan it in and manipulate it on the 'puter? That requires, um, Linux paper, Linux pen[cil], Linux scanner, Linux cable...
You can bet your trousers the graphics for games on the Palm platform are not all made on Palm...
-J
Linux Gurus and Art (Score:1)
Re:Dumb (Score:3)
as the story goes:
One of the old Macintosh computers was designed with a significant portion of development done on Cray computers.
Ironically, old Cray computers were developed using a lot of Macs.
IMHO, both the Crays and the Macs Were/are very significant computers in their time. Perhaps their success was due to a paradigm shift. Sometimes the best ideas happen because somebody thinks "outside the box".
Re:No, and that's why vector art is evil. (Score:1)
Try sketch. It's no Freehand(tm), but it's good enough for a lot of things. And never listen to the zealots.
Now go work on your troll-fu. You aren't nearly annoying enough yet to warrant a real flame.
Smart (Score:1)
This sort of thing dose happen and makes perfictly good managment sence.
An employee using a compeating product is both an endorcment of the product and an emberrisment to the employer.
A fast food ad once ran showing an employee of one fast food place eating at a compleating fast food outlet.
This is much worse when you have Linux advocates making logos using Windows...
Linux has very good graphics software and unless people are willing to spring for $2,000 profesional rendering pacages you are not likely to get much better results on other platforms.
But people won't normally consider using Linux for graphic arts so this limitation is a very good idea.
Limited only by the power of your imagination. (Score:2)
Peck of Penguin Picasso's The Linux Pimp [thelinuxpimp.com]
Re:Sure it would, why not? (Score:1)
I do graphics for a streaming media company, and 90% of the stuff I do, I do in Gimp. It doesn't do quite a few of the things the same way that Photoshop does. However scripting extensions allow you to do a lot of very cool things.
Try it out, and stop moaning. Illustrator's far too overcomplicated for any practical use.
Re:Limited only by the power of your imagination. (Score:1)
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
Re:Why not use the best tools for the job? (Score:2)
This is the key difference between meat-world communism and bit-world communism. The payoff for the cooperative behavior is much higher. This fits in quite nicely to a modified PD-norms explanation (Prisoner's Dillemma).
So that, my friends, is why Linux is winning out over OpenBSD. The good ole communist GPL cooperative contract. Anyway, just some thoughts on this. Regardless, I am a meritocrat. Let the best tools win, there's no need to force bad tools on a person, when what we care about is the product. If the winner doesn't use the GIMP, the GIMP should use the winner's feedback to see what's missing and improve their product. There's nothing worse than shitty software.
I strongly agree... (Score:1)
think -- if some people spend their life learning about laying out type or tinkering with graphics, then they ought to be quite a bit in the field to explore or recognize. Running around like a chicken with its head cut off is the right way to make linux (or anything) fail.
You're not alone in this view -- which is a major reason (no I'm not eggagerating) of why Linux won't succeed in the consumer market. It looks unprofessional, it looks like a hobby, a toy, and totally unreliable. The logos are amateur scribblings of penguins that are badly rendered and put through cheap photoshop and gimp filters. For all the hundreds of window managers and desktops, not one of them looks professional and coherent. They all look like gee-whiz 3-d graduate student projects, not like finished products.
I strongly agree.
Re:When will they grow up? (Score:1)
When it comes right down to it, it IS all about what works best. Whether you like the platform that "it" runs on or not. Don't like windows? If you let that aversion lower the quality of your work you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Maybe someday someone will develop a linux app to reattach noses to faces...
Re:Dumb (Score:1)
I've heard of people buying Ford cars when they they got a job at Ford. It was expected of them. Of course, they kept their other car but it's considerred poor taste to drive to work in it.
Re:My Entertainment for the day... (Score:2)
Forget the stupid linux requirement. There are no linux vector tools (other than part of CorelDraw running under windows emulation...). There is no accurate color matching system in linux. It is NOT possible at this time to design a good logo with Linux, in the whole sense of what a logo needs to be. Name two people in the world making a living designing corporate identities on linux machines.
To get an idea of why linux guys judging logo contests are a bad idea, look at the LDP logo (http://www.linuxdoc.org). Nice graphic, but it is not a logo. If you have to print something like that on a red box, or in two color, or fax it, it will not work. It does not work as a logo either. This is the work of a talented artist to be sure, it is pretty to be sure, but it does not satisfy the requirements of a logo.
Someone also suggested that there are 3d programs that you could use in Linux. You do not make logos in a 3d program. You do not make logos in a raster graphic program like gimp. Tux is a terrible logo for linux. You could also make a good logo out of this idea, but it is awful and unusable as it stands now.
You should really ask NMerriam, or someone of that calibre to help you out. This is not Dilbert's world. Marketing matters. Good and correct graphics are very important. Especially for something that has to go to print. Really.
Robin
Re:LSB Logo (Score:1)
Regards, Tommy - FreeBSD enthusiast
Would be so cool if... (Score:2)