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Linux Software

Indrema Developer's Network Site Comes Up 78

Posted by Hemos from the all-in-your-hand dept.
Sam "Criswell" Hart writes "Just checked out the Indrema Developer's Network website and saw they have a lot of new content. You can now get the IESDK here (which is of course a bunch of things already available like OpenAL and Mesa3D, and includes the Linux kernel 2.4-pre10). You can check out what's "Under The Hood" of the L600 (which is really just information that's been available for a little while now). While it does look very kewl, and I am stoked to try my hand at coding for the thing, I am wondering why the IESDK doesn't include any 2D graphic libraries (such as SDL)... since not all games are 3D ;)"
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Indrema Developer's Network Site Comes Up More

Indrema Developer's Network Site Comes Up

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  • personal tv/dvd screw everything else.... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    IMO their hook on selling this will be the
    personal TV/DVD player. The gaming is cool, but
    until the titles appear, their best bet is the
    TV option. (MP3 too)

    I would like to get a TVIO etc, but all of them
    only have a modem. I want to be able to D/L movies
    and MP3's from my home server into a box and watch
    them on my TV. That is where indrema will kick butt
    the NETWORK.

    Now if only they sell these puppies cheaply
    (at a loss) then I can hack them and make
    a render farm for next to nothing........

  • Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
  • The Dreamcast has a VGA connector you can buy, along with a keyboard and mouse. While the VGA connector is a bit limited on output and I haven't personally played with the mouse, it's not like this sort of thing doesn't already exist for current consoles.
  • As an ex-gamedeveloper and project manager with some experience of recruitment I would just like to add one thing to the otherwise very good answer above:

    It's ESSENTIAL that the people you want to show your work can look at it without too much effort! Don't give them just a floppy or CD with the source and makefiles that only compiles under Linux if you have the right distribution and libraries installed. Make sure to give them a Windows executable with no non-standard external dependencies (or include all needed DLL and stuff).

    Make sure that they can take your little demo for a testride right away without any hassle. Also supply sourcecode and stuff so they can investigate (or have a coder investigating) your code once they've gotten interested.

    Be eager, show them that you really want to work for them. If you don't get any response or a "thanks, but we allready have all the people we need", keep on working on your small demos and projects and send them your new stuff a few months later, showing that you've progressed and that you still are interesting.

  • It's kind of like the MPAA with movies sure you can make a movie that isn't rated but don't expect any theater to run it.

    Is this actually true anywhere? I hear lots of people say this on slashdot but where I live (Philadelphia) there seem to be plenty of theaters that play unrated movies. Sure it doesn't happen often, but then again, how often do you see an unrated movie with a budget large enough to hit movie theaters. Maybe people are just more forgiving around here.


  • What is the Max Res and Colors a TV can do?
    What about a HDTV?
  • Directly from the site [indrema.com]:

    And the number one reason to save your money and buy an Indrema is...Indrema supports independent developers-so we'll get all the perverted games.

    I heartily approve of this. I'm very uncomfortable when corporations decide that they have the right to decide what's good for me and what's not. If Indrema will mean less censorship in games, I say GO INDREMA!

  • I am wondering why the IESDK doesn't include any 2D graphic libraries (such as SDL)... since not all games are 3D ;)

    I would suggest that the reason might be due to the fact that OpenGL is not necessary a 3D API but a graphics library with operations that can operate in either 2D or 3D.

  • ...Epic (what happend to them)?

    Does this [unrealtournament.com] ring any bells for ya?

  • During the days that we were blown away with being able to record TV shows, the _three_ systems (VHS, Betamax and Philips' Video 2000) basically did equally well (umm Video 2000 at least in Europe, don't know about the US). But as soon as people started to rent videos they found they needed a VHS because most movies came out for VHS only. Especially so for porn. And yes, everything had to be verified before it could be put out on Betamax.

    The increased record times probably didn't matter too much... Video 2000 from the start (or at least soon after it had come out) supported 4 hour videotapes that could be used on both sides (for a total of 8 hours).
  • Look at the number 1 reason to "Save your cash and buy an IES." [indrema.com]

    It is:

    "Indrema supports independent developers-so we'll get all the perverted games. "

  • If you had read the information, certification for free games is free.

    .technomancer

  • Yup, if you can get the mpeg 2 encoded files off the box by ethernet it will be more than worth the $299... It will let me get all those degrading video cassettes I have around into a nice stable digital format =)

    Basically if you can do this it gives me one of the components I was going to build custom for a home digital archiving system for audio/video. (And considering the vid card I was looking at was $250 it'll save me some cash too...)

    .technomancer

  • Is there any information out on how to get TV programmming data in to the box for using it as a PTV? Are they going to offer programming data subscribtions like Tivo or will a 3rd party be able to provide data?
    --
  • you'll be finding more than 1 reason to have vibrating controllers in the future.

    May the Force Feedback be with you.

  • Microsoft has the xpertise to push it through? Ha ha. I was talking to someone from Electronic Arts here in Canada a while back and he pointed out that Microsoft has a terrible track record with hardware.

    Oftentimes, Microsoft will announce some hot new hardware. Only occasionally are they able to actually bring a product to market.

    Sure, they've had some big successes (Microsoft Mouse, Microsoft Natural Keyboard), but they have had a lot of failures and broken promises as well.

    Heck, they have a hard enough time getting their core software out, on-time and functioning correctly. And they have experience with operating systems and office suites. They have no experience with video game consoles.

    Until I see the X-Box for sale, I'll just assume it is vapourware thank you very much. I do not care much for the Playstation 2 but at least I can buy one (or at least, steal one...).

  • Where I live (Philadelphia) there seem to be plenty of theaters that play unrated movies.

    Don't move to Fargo, North Dakota. We have one independent screen and about 30 chain screens here (screens, not theatres). The four chain theatres would never, ever play an unrated movie. The independent theatre does, but with only one screen they can't bring us a very large selection of movies.

    As far as video goes, Blockbuster has the largest selection of movies around here. And I don't just mean they have the largest number of available tapes -- I mean they have the largest selection of movies. Seriously. Perhaps that doesn't suprise you, but I've certainly never been anywhere on earth before where Blocbuster's selection would be considered comparatively good.

    Of course, if your target market for a movie or game is bumblefuckville, you have much bigger problems than just distribution.
  • But what if they aren't targetting the major game makers? There are plenty of small shops that have wanted to produce games for the abovementioned systems, but can't, because they can't afford the fees.

    How many millions of dollars do they sell these developer kits for? I find it incredible that the developer kit is the bottleneck to making good games, instead of the expense of the visual artists and 3d artists and sound artists and designers and programmers and project managers and business managers and distribution experts.

    But if you say that the real expense is the developer kit, I'm inclined to believe you. Just tell us how many millions of dollars that devoper kit is, would you?
  • They will probably require games to be cryptographically signed to run, so if you put in a non-certified game it will just spit it out.
  • You just wanted to flaunt the fact that you not only read, but subscribe to, "Trends in Genetics", right?


    My mom is not a Karma whore!

  • 2D? (Score:1)

    by cd_Csc ( 151701 )
    not all games are 3D :)

    Oh really? Where have you been the last 5 years?

  • Why would I care if my console had a fan in it? Because of the noise? My DC makes a racket just spinning the cd, and it doesn't bother me any...
  • I know the author of Crystal Space had that long e-mail exchange with Richard Stallman not to long ago (posted to /.) about porting to PS2, but does he have any plans for porting Crystal Space to Indrema (or DV Linux, or whatever they wanna call it)?

    I deffinitly think that that'd be an easy way to get a decent foundation for game creation on the console; and that's whats gonna decide whether or not this thing lives or dies... Good games.

    Also as a side note. Anyone else think Indrema needs to clean up there site? For example, little things like that indrema vs xbox vs ps2 chart; WHAT DO THE "*"s refer to??? Also that "Top 10 reasons not to buy ps2 and wait for indrema" that has to be the most unprofessional absurd list I've ever seen... Thats why I think Indrema is gonna fail: naievity. I want them to succede, but i just don't think it's gonna happen.

    There is no way to "sneak" into the game console market. Targeting "Power Gamers" is the easiest way to put out a product have very little positive response, have your FEW big name game developers jump ship, then be left with a cool box that does nothing because no large companies want to write for it. Only smaller ones. Apogee, and Epic (what happend to them)? Blizzard and Id?

    Well thats my thought stream... redirect it where you like.

    "I do not go believe comes out therefrom that I will concentrate on always more special zones."
  • I know of plenty of porn sites that take advantage of space travel and solvents. Oh wait you mean those picutures were faked. Oh well sorry.
  • Here's a question: Is the L600 and/or the XBox going to come with a VGA connector?

    It seems to me that all of the great graphics are going to be wasted on a standard TV. Why not let me hook the beast up to my 19 inch Sony Trinitron monitor with its .25mm dot pitch and 85Hz refresh rate?

    Also, I'm assuming there are going to be some fantastic hacks to both "consoles." It would suck to have to use a TV when I'm using my L600 as a PC.

    /bill
  • Now that I think more about it...

    Will either have a keyboard/mouse connection?

    /bill
  • The indrema uses USB ports. Conceivably, you could share any of your PC/mac's USB peripherals.
    ---
    Where can the word be found, where can the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence.
  • Beta died because everything had to be verified before it could be put out on Betamax.

    I hadn't known of this, so I'll take your word for it, but another factor was capacity. VHS quickly came out with increased record times, which Beta couldn't immediately match. I think that, plus the 'open-standard' nature of VHS, were the real decisive factors. No one I know made a purchasing decision on the availability of porn tapes; we were all just blown away with being able to record TV shows for later viewing. Those who have no memory of pre-VCR days can't imagine what a revolution that was.

  • Granted the fact that it will be hard to find developers to develop cool and kick ass games on it, but, it DOES have other features. For the most part, it is a very, very, very, very advanced and high powered set top box. Sure it plays games, but that's just one aspect of the market that the L600 can do. It might not have a chance to do well in the average consumer market, but considering the low price, multi-functional capabilities, all wrapped into the same package, I wouldn't be surprised if you start finding these units in some of the nice hotels.

    I remember when I went on a job interview, and the hotel I was put up in (Marriott Suites) had a set top box that was able to get room service, my hotel account, order movies, all from the set top box. But what if that set top box can do email, and surf the web? And you say it has Digital Audio outputs? I wouldn't be surprised if the next time I book a hotel room they will ask me if I want the room to be Dolby DTSed. Does this mean Regal Cinemas might start putting up hotels?

    The unit comes with a 100Base port... I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do Video on Demand (VOD) or at least use IP Multicast to distribute movies on a timely basis... or better yet, why don't I just download the .vob file from the next release of Napster or Gnutella. Oh wait... I think RIAA and MPAA are knocking on my hotel room...

  • Actually he has a point..If you look at the top seller list of PC games on any given month, you often find that many of the top entries are primarily 2D games (though they may have prerendered 3D CG, it's still a 2D engine/interface).

    Diablo II...Age of Empires and all its related games..The Rollercoast Tycoon (and other Tycoon) series games, etc.

    However, more and more the line between 2D and 3D is being blurred, with 2D games offering extra features when run on 3D-capable hardware (again, example: Diablo II).

  • While I am hopeful for the future of this "little console that could" concept, and like the spec sheet, I am hesitant to actually show excitement.

    They have everything against them: they have to convince game developers to accept a whole new model, they might be targeted for law suits (I mean WHO is going to LIKE linux + DVD in a cheap piece of h/w?), and worst of all they have no brand name recognition with the general gaming public.

    While it may be of limited use to those who can develop on it and otherwise fit it into their tech collections, unless it has a big user base, it won't last... the whole point is to play the same cool games your friends are playing, isn't it?

  • That presents a little problem
  • Until the major companies black list the company and refuse to deal with them. It's kind of like the MPAA with movies sure you can make a movie that isn't rated but don't expect any theater to run it.
  • space exploration, nanities, solvents, HP calculators, cars, the SR71 how have these possibly been taken advantage of via the porn industry?
  • Or perhaps replacements for overboard attempts at 3d? Maybe optimized 3d algorithms and the like?
  • Unless of course you have a lot of small time movie houses and that usually dosn't last too long due to extreme expense that people get from being out of the loop and such.
  • ..I just had to mention it.

    from the you-know-you've-been-reading-too-much-Slashdot dept:

    I just took the new issue of Trends In Genetics out of my mailbox and looked at the cover -- a photo of two goats and the caption "Mammalian intersexes". My head instantly whipped around 90 degrees, presumably a learned aversion response to seeing "sex" and a goat in any kind of proximity.

  • While it does look very kewl, and I am stoked to try my hand at coding for the thing, I am wondering why the IESDK doesn't include any 2D graphic libraries (such as SDL)... since not all games are 3D ;)"


    <SARCASM>

    What do you mean not all games are 3D? Why, who still plays those crappy 2D games like megaman, street fighter, gunstar heroes, rayman, mario 3, etc.. Why do you think there's no market for emulators and ROM's..? Obviously it's because 3D gaming is far superior in every way, and that the extra axis of movement is an infinitely better replacement for "innovative gameplay". Get your facts straight before you post such rubbish to a factual website such as this one!

    </SARCASM>

  • not all games are 3D :)

    Oh really? Where have you been the last 5 years?

    Ok, how about this... Not all of us want 3-D games.
    (Ok... Except for Team Fortress. Yeah, I know I stink at it, but that doesn't mean I don't have fun.)

    Personally, I'd be happy with this box if there were a decent Raiden-2 style game.
  • Even if they do manage to produce the hardware, the mass-market won't give a damn about this. Basically the major VG software manufacturers are circling their wagons around one of the big 4 (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and maybe Sega) and are going to get locked down under non-comp deals, if they aren't already.

    But what if they aren't targetting the major game makers? There are plenty of small shops that have wanted to produce games for the abovementioned systems, but can't, because they can't afford the fees.

    Whereas with Indrema, the developer's kit is free. When you release a game, Indrema gets a cut of whatever you sell it for, so if you freeware your game (usually for publicity) they don't even get a cut then.

    I'd call it a TurboGrafx 16, if I couldn't think of a shorter lived and more ill-conceived console.

    NeoGeo?
  • I've got a friend that was in the Air Force and he claimed that when the SR71's were retired you could get a picture of this group of quite lovely nude women draped over it in various positions of um, shall we say, naughtiness. It was supposedly the 'retirement party' or something like that. He didn't know if it was a real picture, but he did say that if it was a fake, someone put some major, major effort into making the models look like they were laying on the wings/over the canopy/leaning on the tail and whatever else they could think of.


    Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
  • That's because software developers finally realized that it's really, REALLY hard to beat a pornography related game while your hands are so busy with um, ...other things.


    Slow moving marsupials and the women that love them
  • YAY! We have OpenAL support!

    Now I am happy!

  • Although ther colour is usually half the res of the brightness Gary
  • This thing is SO much more than just a games console. I mean it has built in capability to be a DVD movie player AND a mp3 jukebox. It has ethernet(which translates to both highspeed access and functionality as an internet appliance), usb ports (keyboard and mouse to think of a few good uses. or maybe an external harddrive for movies, mp3s, games, etc). Its capable of running almost all linux software(with a little modification possibly), and it can play FREE games. In other words this system can be cheap and powerful PC, media device, or almost anything else with extra peripherals and some software. hmmmm wonder if i could use it as a cheap firewall or router... If this is more than vapourware im going to be one very happy(and broke) XXXTaC
  • I dont think you actually have to pay the certification charge... i mean what are they going to do to force you to pay. Now if you sell the software that might be a different story legally but i think the certification for freeware is going to be totally unenforcable, hell since the system does use linux wouldn't they technically have to try to charge linux developers for making their software. In other words i really think that this is not going to be easy for them to enforce. Now maybe they expect people to get certification if they want their software to be considered "official" but im really not sure.
  • "The evolution of the home entertainment system will see the eventual extinction of proprietary 'black boxes'"

    and

    "The GPU and frame buffer memory reside on the IES Slide Bay, a proprietary technology"

    -

    Evolution is by definition gradual. In this case the stages should be from the current "all proprietary" to their "less proprietary" to the future "not proprietary". THAT'S evolution.

    Baby steps.
    ______
  • ...or Virtual Boy, or 32X...or CD-I (shudder) I really don't see how this thing can fly. The biggest question is where are the games? What do they have to compete with? Halo? Shenmue? Gran Turismo 2000? Zelda? I haven't seen anything on any games for this- many games take more than a year to produce...when is this system coming out? Who's paying for the marketing? Sorry to be so cynical but after watching the pattern of the videogame industry for years I can't really see this thing flying. There's nothing about it that jumps out and says 'buy me!', and sorry to break your hearts and all, but the fact that it runs Linux does matter at all to me, although if it is truly easy to develop for, that might be it's one chance. Saturn got killed because no one could write software for it (except for AM divisions), even PS2 is being somewhat hurt buy this, although marketing muscle rammed it through anyways. I just really can't see how this thing has a chance - prove me wrong though, because more viable consoles mean more good games and more competition, and that's good for us gamers!
  • Hack value!! could you imagine the stuff you can do with a modular open-source game console!! Is it be impossible to build a PS,xbox etc emulator for indrema?
    And get your ass sued right off? By Sony and Microsoft of course. Sony let Bleemcast go for now, but do you really think they'd let a Bleemcast2 slip by?
    I'd bet someone will have this thing running apache+php and serving websites in no time
    Who cares? Why reinvent the wheel?
    software library tweaks and upgrades
    This is the antithesis of what makes consoles useful. Standardized hardware and fewer levels of abstraction between the hardware and the game code make for easier programming, less interfaces, less workarounds, less bugs.
    With a little support, Indrema could do to the gaming console what linux is doing to the software industry.
    What, continually playing catch-up? Good point though, while Linux does have its good points as far as cheap, socialist techies and perhaps the server market are concerned, there really isn't anything to draw in the mass consumer market. Maybe there is a market for the Indrema, amongst the OSS-worshipping, technology fetishists on /., but that's only a couple thousand (couple 100,000 at most, if all the trolls buy one too).
  • But what if they aren't targetting the major game makers? There are plenty of small shops that have wanted to produce games for the abovementioned systems, but can't, because they can't afford the fees.
    The bottom line is that the games have to be desireable. The games sell the console, no matter how well intentioned the console maker is in "providing" this platform for said developers to produce their games. If nobody wants said games, nobody will buy the console.

    It's a longshot bet for any developer to take, whereas Pokemon, Mario, and sports licenses are sure-thing money in the bank for the big consoles. Keith Courage didn't exactly become a household name, and Bonk was maybe a blip on the cultural radar for TurboGrafx 16. (I actually bought one, so I feel a little bitter about it )

    Whereas with Indrema, the developer's kit is free. When you release a game, Indrema gets a cut of whatever you sell it for, so if you freeware your game (usually for publicity) they don't even get a cut then.
    And realistically, since they can't expect to make any income off the console and compete on price with the big dogs, this will be their entire income stream. Nobody makes anything off the freeware stuff. And do you really think someone is going to buy the console based on the draw of the freeware games? That's like a mass-market consumer buying a boxed Linux distro because they think StarOffice looks useful.
  • Playstation 3 will be based on Linux (the console as well as the development enviroment).

    Linus was there when they announced it few months ago back in Japan. I saw this info on the register and some other places..

    So don't forget to try some Linux programming :)
  • Those were both "little consoles that could" when they first came out.

    I don't know if it'll make it or not, but I think it actually has a decent chance of making it.

    --
    Ben Kosse

  • I forgot we were talking about everything under the sun. My bad.

    --
    Ben Kosse

  • I'm sorry.... they want develpoers to pay ( even freeware ) to get their software certified for a open platform. Seems a little iffy. How can they demand royalties for comercial games? They have an open platform right? or is it.

    What if you don't get your application certified and sell it anyways... what can they really do? Consumers rarley care if the software is certified, as long as it runs. If they don't open the certification they will loose freeware programmers in the long run.

  • Until the major companies black list the company and refuse to deal with them. It's kind of like the MPAA with movies sure you can make a movie that isn't rated but don't expect any theater to run it

    Soon it may not matter want the MPAA thinks.

    A friend of mine just bought a digital cam corder. He already has an iMac with iMovie software. Think about it, the tools to make movies, albeit probably pretty bad movies, but movies never the less, are now affordable to the average consumer.

    He's got two kids. They, and a lot of their friends, are going to grow up with this technology.

    The generation that grew up with computers gave us video games. What are these kids gonna do?

    I have a small home theater set up. DVD, progressive scan TV, DD processor, surround speakers, etc. Cost a few grand all told. Really good home theater set ups are still a bit pricey. Equivalent in price to say a nice boat or a nice in ground pool (complete with patio and deck).

    With the advent of HDTV, which looks great on a larger screen, and falling although not yet reasonable prices, how long will it be until home theaters become fairly commonplace?

    So, we have a generation that will grow up making movies and viewing technology moving into the homes. So what if the local theater won't play it. We'll just watch it in our home theaters.

    Once upon a time computing resources were locked behind glass doors and only a select few had access. Today I've got four computers in my condo. The PC revolution has changed how we work and play. Of the big mainframe makers, only IBM is still around (unless you want to count Unisys).

    We can start the see the glimmerings of a similar shift in entertainment. The MPAA and the RIAA are right to be terrified of PCs and the net. Because it will completely change the way they do business. And many of their member companies may not survive.

    I'm looking forward to it.

    Steve M

  • Or however you spell it.

    From the 'under the hood' bit:

    "The evolution of the home entertainment system will see the eventual extinction of proprietary 'black boxes'"

    and

    "The GPU and frame buffer memory reside on the IES Slide Bay, a proprietary technology"

    One the one page, in adjacent paragraphs. Thank you, and goodnight.
    Dave :)

  • Of course, you could always just write to X, or port SDL if you really want it.. Should be 99% the same...
  • You can do 2D with OpenGL quite well. In fact, a good OpenGL 2D engine can include a lot of nifty effects that are quite difficult/slow to do normally (transparency, lighting) In fact, a lot of Playstation 2D games are really 3D games with a fixed viewpoint. (according to LaMothe.)
  • Usually TV is 512 pixels across and anywhere from 300-600 lines up and down.

    HDTV depends on the spec.

    480i - 640x480 pixels interlaced
    480p - 640x480 pixels progressive
    720p - 1280x720 pixels progressive
    1080i - 1920x1080 pixels interlaced

    I stole those from
    this site. [ask.com]
  • How do you think they make money? On consoles, all content is required to be licensed. Ex. $7 of every PSX videogame purchase goes directly to Sony.
  • Common man, where's your sense of adventure : )

    I agree these things could happen, as they could happen with any console, but look at indrema's potential!!

    I must admit, that when I heard the prices of this generation of console (~$300), I figured I wouldn't get a machine. But after hearing about indrema, I'm all hyped and ready to get one. why?

    (i) Hack value!! could you imagine the stuff you can do with a modular open-source game console!!
    Is it be impossible to build a PS,xbox etc emulator for indrema?... software library tweaks and upgrades, etc. I'd bet someone will have this thing running apache+php and serving websites in no time : )

    (ii)Linux gaming. If indrema gets *any* support from the gaming industry ( and that depends on the support they get from us, the consumer ) then the effects will be that linux will be more support as a gaming platform. Think of something of a spill-over effect. If you're into linux gaming, you should get an indrema

    (iii)By looking at the hardware specs, the indrema seems like a pretty solid game platform

    Sure, it's not the *safe* platform to invest in, but think of the potential of this system.

    With a little support, Indrema could do to the gaming console what linux is doing to the software industry.

    PS. I am in no way affiliated with Indrema
  • Just learn to program, it doesn't matter on what machine. In fact it's better if you cover many different machines and types of architecture: learning only one thing in detail would be doing yourself a disservice because platforms change all the time, and skills you learn now would be irrelevant by the time you came to look for a job.

    I'd start by writing a couple of different types of game (simple things, Space Invaders, Tetris, etc), on whatever platform you have at hand. Then write some other non-game stuff on some other platform. Keep coding, keep learning new languages and systems, be obsessive, and put together a nice varied showreel of your work.

    The main thing is to have absolute mastery of C and C++, which you can only get by writing a large volume of code, and to be versatile enough to pick up other languages and toolsets whenever required. For example, an ideal showreel would probably include some sort of 3D demo (maybe a spaceship flying around a starfield, using OpenGL or D3D, with some nice lighting or whatever), some sort of other game-related demo (eg. pathfinding AI in a 2d tile map game), and whatever other impressive coding work you can come up with (I'd be a bit nervous about hiring someone who had _only_ ever done game stuff).

    I'd forget about the Indrema, from what I see it's a kind of interesting but pointless idea since it lacks any unique reason for people to buy it (Linux doesn't count for most console users). In terms of both hardware and software it's almost identical to what you already have sitting on your desk, so just crank up gcc and get working on your OpenGL code...

    --
    Shawn Hargreaves (professional PS2 developer)
    http://www.climax.co.uk

  • Actually, you may want to re-read the "Certification" topic again.... what they say is that they won't charge royalties on free/no cost games, but that you must still pay the certification fee.

    I still don't see how they'll be able to force people to pay this, unless their development kit/API's are restrictively licensed. I can see how it could be "optional", to get a "powered by indrema" sticker or something.

    From the indrema site [indrema.com]:

    Explanation of Free vs. Pay Certification

    All software applications and hardware accessories must meet technical certification requirement that ensure the end user is guaranteed a first rate, zero-configuration experience.

    In terms of software applications Indrema offers two separate certification programs: For Profit Certifications and Free-ware Certification

    Both Certification Processes carry a one-time charge for review of each software submission. For Profit Games that will be distributed for profit will also be charged a royalty for each title sold.

    Games that are distributed for free, even if they ask for donations, will not be charged a royalty on a per game sold basis. The only charge that applies is the initial certification request.
  • It's all very nice -- this Indrema stuff -- but call me a skeptic: I'll believe it when I can order it and have it in my grubby hands within 24 hours.

    Until then it's all flash, no substance. Sorta like the ZapStation: an interesting machine, a pretty good price-point (although the ZapStation should be about 200 bucks cheaper), but is it available?

    Not a chance.

    When is the Indrema gonna ship? By Thanksgiving? HA!

    By Christmas?

    I doubt it.

    Show me the goods. Until then? The tease is pretty damn irksome.

  • I still don't see how they'll be able to force people to pay this, unless their development kit/API's are restrictively licensed. I can see how it could be "optional", to get a "powered by indrema" sticker or something. read through the IDN pages some more, one of the as yet unreleased software components is the closed source authentication software. As I understand it, when you launch a game on the machine it runs some authentication code to see if the game is Indrema certified, if it is then it runs, otherwise you just stay in X or TV or DVD or whatever you're doing before you tried to run the game. Hopefully the certification fee will be very low cost (especially for freeware games) it seems more like a qulaity assurance verification to make sure games run on the Indrema and aren't carrying some horrible virus or showstopper bug more than anything else.
  • DV Linux (Indrema's distro) will have a serious binary-only component which will do content management. It will certainly be non-trivial to circumvent this system - Im sure they understand the nature of the OS community which has a significant component of people who feel information ought to be free (libre&gratis). This community of hardcore first-adopters will not stand for over zealous ip-control, but no corporate entity ($ whores) will develop software for a system, marketed to the afore mentioned group, that hasnt some strong-ish method to control 'their ip' (i dont believe such a thing exists... but not the point of this article/post).

    From the IDN site [slashdot.org], to wit: The IES Digital Rights Management (DRM) system contains proprietary encryption code that protects an IES game, entertainment application, or digital media content from piracy.

    When you say "certification for freeware is going to be totally unenforceable" I think we will find that this is not at all true - if Indrema does The Right Thing(TM) (which I believe they will) you will find that their is lots of Linux Apps that get 'ported' to DV Linux as long as their 'free cert' program is equally gratis/libre as the intent of OS developers.

    If they dont do this - we will all be downloading XDV Linux distros and blowing DV off our beauty little boxes... ala iOpener et al.

    Ok America, enough kidding around: Are you really going to continue to watch your Democracy sold to Corporate taskmasters? NO? Tomorrow do the world a favour and VOTE NADER!
  • the category that games that would have porn as their them on consoles would be in the AO category of rating and as of yet I havn't seen too many.

    Come to think of it I havn't seen any porn related games lately for *any* system at any software shops that I frequent let alone open source ones.
  • When is the Indrema gonna ship? By Thanksgiving? HA!

    By Christmas?

    I doubt it.

    Show me the goods. Until then? The tease is pretty damn irksome.

     If you had bothered to read their website, you would have seen that the target date for the system is 2001. They aren't trying to force the box out for the Christmas season this year.

    Probably because the technical people are telling the marketing wankers what to print, rather than marketing setting the deadlines.
  • I swear i've seen HP calculators with porn on them. It was cindy crawford to be exact.

    Cars: why do you think the back seats of 60's cars were so big? :)

    space and SR71 - i'd be the first to sign up if there were a possibility
  • I would love to get into game programming. It is basically my life long dream job to make video games or computer games. I am still in college, but I think I know enough to make a decent game. Anyways, my question is... would it be a good idea to try and start developing for the Indrema or is there a better way to break into the business? I figure I could at least learn a few things as I go even if I never get to actually complete a real game. Just looking for some suggestions, thanks.
  • Face it, the Indrema is vapourware, and was stillborn a while ago. Just like the X-Box, they're promising everything under the sun (Although in some cases less than the X-Box) but the difference is, Microsoft has the raw cash and expertise to push it through.

    Even if they do manage to produce the hardware, the mass-market won't give a damn about this. Basically the major VG software manufacturers are circling their wagons around one of the big 4 (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and maybe Sega) and are going to get locked down under non-comp deals, if they aren't already. So we have to believe that Indrema, who will have to sell their console at a loss to compete with the big boys and their limitless cash sinks, is still going to be able to convince an independent SW maker to:

    1. pay any applicable licensing,
    2. Take a risk on the little console that could, and
    3. Spend oodles promoting characters/licenses to compete with Mario/Zelda/Sonic, and the various sports licenses that sell the other consoles to the 18+ crowd?
    I don't think so. I'd call it a TurboGrafx 16, if I couldn't think of a shorter lived and more ill-conceived console.
  • [The NES and Playstation] were both "little consoles that could" when they first came out.

    $mode[sarcasm]=1;

    Ah, yes. Nintendo. Never released a video game in it's life before the NES. Donkey Kong, starring Mario... nah... never heard of it. Poor young company with no deep pockets. It's not like they had been around since before the World Wars, making everything from large ships to televisions.

    And then there is Sony. Another tiny little company without any money or experience in marketing consumer electronics. They never invented the modern color television or personal electronics or anything... back in the 80s, they didn't invent the only real mainstream wearable electronic that ever made it (WalkMan/later Discman).

    Yeah. Indrema is comparable to those two.

    $mode[sarcasm]=0;

    --
    Evan

  • So you want to be a game-star... (Score:3)

    by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Monday November 06, 2000 @12:53PM (#645305)
    > Anyways, my question is... would it be a good idea to try and start developing for the Indrema or is there a better way to break into the business?

    As a game developer I can give my opinion. (Hopefully the other game developers around here will chip in, like John Carmack, or Corrinne Yu ;-)

    The best way to break into the biz is to make a demo, a small project, or even a small game. With that last option, I'm not intentionally being recursive. I'll give a list of things one could do in the process of making a game, (you'll have to find the one you like doing) and the steps you could do to get your foot in the door.

    Since you specifically said you wanted to be a game programmer, I'll list the programming options first. =P

    i.e.

    A.I. Put together a Quake Bot (since the rest of the game is already written & works. :-)

    Gameplay. Write a mod, ala Counter-Strike, or TeamFortress. Balance it for 4, 8, 12, or even N players. Take a mod for Diablo and modify it.

    Graphics. Write Pacman, an early Ultima clone, or even a 3D Engine.

    Math. Write a 2D physics engine. Now make it 3D.

    Art. Make a good looking low-poly char. Create some textures. Create a UT level.

    Music. Write some tunes, and drop them into a game so people can see how you set the atmosphere.

    The trick is to find something you enjoy doing, and put together a portfolio of your talents. (For me, it was optimizating texture mapping code, which landed me my first "real" job at EA, years ago.)

    So where do Consoles fit into this?

    The answer is: "Can you get all the development tools" ? Obviously you won't be able to get a PS2 SDK, so look at your options: As a student, I know it's hard to afford the full blown MS Visuall C++. Look for a "academic version." If you're running Linux, you have gcc, SDL, and other tools & libs available.

    Hope this was a helpfull start.

    --
    "The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." - Thomas Jefferson

  • Cert Charge? (Score:3)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Monday November 06, 2000 @12:13PM (#645306) Journal
    In terms of software applications Indrema offers two separate certification programs: For Profit Certifications and Free-ware Certification

    Both Certification Processes carry a one-time charge for review of each software submission. For Profit Games that will be distributed for profit will also be charged a royalty for each title sold.

    I hope they are reasonable about the amount charged to GNU games built for the L600. If the charge is anything more than a token $50 or dollars who is going to develop free (gratis) games for a system that has a $ cost for certification? I hope someone from Indrema can clarify this point quickly.

    I may spend some time developing apps for the IES when its available, and release them GNU/Free-Ware cert - but if Indrema asks for much in the way of a "one time charge" they are going to SERIOUSLY hinder OS developer support.

    ON TUESDAY PLEASE USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DISRUPT THE SYSTEM OF CORPORATE IMPERIALISM, AMERICA DO THE WORLD A FAVOUR:

  • 2D (Score:3)

    by g_mcbay ( 201099 ) on Monday November 06, 2000 @12:21PM (#645307)
    A lot of people who program 2D titles are moving to using traditionally 3D APIs like Direct3D and OpenGL for rendering.

    There are many reasons to do this, but the basic idea is that modern 3D hardware generally has features such as hardware assisted alpha blending, rotation, scaling, etc. You can snap a modern 3D API into an orthographic projection and then use textured quads for 2D tiles and sprites. Then you get all of those fancy features hardware accelerated. Often these features, even if available on the card, are not hardware accelerated through the 2D APIs (DirectDraw, DGA, whatever) and you fall back to slow software emulation modes. Perhaps this is why they didn't include a 2D specific API...

    As a matter of fact, DirectX 8 won't even have an updated DirectDraw. Only Direct3D. People writing for DirectX will have to use DX7's DirectDraw through COM interfaces or use Direct3D 8 for their 2D operations (Microsoft provides a library, D3DX, that makes it quite easy to use Direct3D as a 2D rendering system).

    Of course, this doesn't always make sense...If you want your 2D title to run on low end video cards, you don't really want them doing it through Direct3D or OpenGL...But on a standardized platform with fast 3D, which describes Indrema, its not really as much of an issue.

  • THE NEW VHS (Score:3)

    by clinko ( 232501 ) on Monday November 06, 2000 @11:31AM (#645308) Journal
    Ok, i'm sure this has been said before but open sourcing a game system is great. Beta died because everything had to be verified before it could be put out on Betamax. But VHS had no restrictions. Of course that lead to porn. But whenever there's a new technology, porn is the first to take advantage of it: movies, VHS, internet.

    Anyway: "Indrema CEO John Gildred discussed the advantages of IDN and the open source nature of the Indrema Entertainment System today at 11:30 PST"

    I wonder if he talks about porn being a big deal? I doubt it, but i bet you'll be finding more than 1 reason to have vibrating controllers in the future.

    I feel dirty after writing that, but it's true.
  • Go to SourceForge [sourceforge.net] and find an open source game in development (or even beta) that sounds cool to you - and contribute copious code... it will be free so everyone can enjoy it, and you can put it on your resume.

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