

More On The Compaq iPAQ Linux Handheld 127
alee writes "Here's what everyone's been waiting to see: screenshots of the Compaq iPAQ (PocketPC) running Linux. No, you're not going to see it running a plain-jane shell -- you're going to actually see it running X! This project is a lot more mature than I expected. Here is
Photos of iPAQ being opened, and running X and
Screen captures of the iPAQ running X." Ummmm.... wow.
Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:3)
Wacom LCD Tablets [wacom.com]
I remember seeing a drawing table/screen the size of a drafting table at SIGGRAPH a few years ago. It was in the Alias/Wavefront booth and they were running Alias Sketch on it. Quite cool.
Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:2)
Re:Awesome (Score:1)
Re:Where to get the binaries/kernel from + the FAQ (Score:1)
Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:1)
Life is beautiful, once again.
Mirror... (Score:1)
Beware, Hypermart popup banners ahead.
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Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:1)
Left Handers (Score:2)
Looking at this the first thing I notice is its geared for right-handed people. Can you flip the screen upside-down?
To finish my rant, many of these palmtops are geared for right handed people. How about offering left-handed models (or trade-ins), or being more neutral?
Re:Xscribble? (Score:4)
Possibly better than Palm/Visor: TRGPro (Score:2)
It actually represents one of the "better" of the ways of running Linux on a handheld; TRG describes this... [trgnet.com] The original way of booting Linux on a PalmPilot required that you have a TRG memory board in your PalmPilot.
The more important overreaching point here, to stay on topic with this being an alternative to iPAQ, is that I don't yet see that there is a set of PIM software to make the "Linux-running" palm-held machines useful.
For instance, the iPAQ appears to require that you hook it up to something that pretends to be a "dumb terminal," or that you can control everything using pre-programmed apps that use the onboard buttons. In other words, if an application needs a keyboard, you're left "grasping" for that.
There isn't perfectly suitable Linux software to run on PDAs for the PIM needs of:
Re:On second thought... (Score:2)
looks interesting (Score:1)
kidding. relax.
but in all seriousness, this looks very cool. i wonder how long it will take for vendors to offer linux as an option on their handhelds. with all the industry hype of linux, it may not be as long as you think.
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funniest slash sites:infantililsm.org [infantilism.org]
Re:Cool, but functional? (Score:2)
-russ
Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:2)
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Re:Its being /.-tted. (Score:1)
Re:New WM? (Score:1)
Re:Xscribble? (Score:2)
-russ
Ipaq does have networking (Score:1)
MrNick
iPAQ. Wow, that's an original name. (Score:1)
I think Apple's next machine should be called the Paqintosh.
ChuckleBug
Re:Xscribble? (Score:1)
Re:Xscribble? (Score:3)
-russ
Re:iPAQ and the whole Linux bit... (Score:1)
Correct me if i'm wrong, but why would they even need a deal to use MS Linux (If there was such a thing) as MS Linux would keep the old free-license - unless they wrote something completely new and unrelated but liked the linux name.....
That's my rant for the day.
Re:How about this one?... (Score:1)
I particularly like this picture [handhelds.org] showing how far we've come in calculator technology
Chris
Re:Sounds like you want a Hewlett Packard 200LX (Score:2)
Now, your suggestion for coding on the Palm V is intriguing. What C++ compiler works on the Palm V?
Re:Window management for Linux handhelds (Score:1)
Chris
Re:New WM? (Score:2)
in fact i recall a wm called the tile wm what would tile windows and not let them overlap.
Re:What I'd be interested in knowing... (Score:1)
Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:1)
Well, Mitsubishi has the AMiTY CP and XP [mitsubishi-mobile.com]. They use the WACOM technology for their LCD displays/digitizer tablets. Heck, they use standard Intel mobile Pentium chips, 2.5" notebook harddrives, and run Windows 98, so installing Linux or BSD would probably be fairly easy.
Not using WACOM parts, but still related are the ePlates [hitachi.com] from Hitachi. These are quite interesting; however at about the same size and weight as the AMiTY tablets, and with Windows CE instead of Windows 98, they might not be as much fun. Cheaper though.
There are a number of other tablet computers on the market. They're just a bit more difficult to track down than your standard, boring old notebook. Oh, and a little more expensive.
Re:Windows CE is better (Score:2)
So you're saying that the GUI takes up less resources on X than an app running on Windows CE?
Say it ain't so!
How about telling comparing X with how much system resources *the GUI* takes up under CE instead of an app running on top of it?
Simon
Re:iPAQ and the whole Linux bit... (Score:1)
Re:Sounds like you want a Hewlett Packard 200LX (Score:1)
Turbo C++ is a nice compiler, but it's 16-bit and no memory protection. It was an earlier, more innocent time. In other words, it was primitive, and it sucked. Just kidding... I learned C++ with Turbo C++.
Re:Color Text Encoding (Score:2)
Obviously haven't progressed much past the larval stage, then :-)
The above is only true for monochrome. Using colour antialiased text,
as the original poster suggested, you can do better than that.
3 vertical pixels is just about readable, although it only
works well for upper case characters, and you really need some context
to give your brain a helping hand. 4 vertical pixels is fine...
Re:Xscribble? (Score:2)
-russ
iPAQ and the whole Linux bit... (Score:1)
Any other sites with pics? (Score:1)
Re:Input devices (Score:1)
The DT104 board holds an AVR 20-pin microcontroller. RS-232 serial interface to
the PC. One standard LCD display (driven in 4-bit mode), up to 8 pushbuttons,
a piezo speaker and an ultrabright LED.
Each button push/release sends an event down the serial line. It's up to the
master to turn that into keys (I have a chord-set defined). The speaker is there
mostly because the micro has a nice timer output to hook it to, the LED
is an attention-getter and also a mini-torch (I'm forever poking into dark places where a little light in hand would be helpful).
Power is 7.2v NiCd pack. LCD is currently 16x2 but I have plans to switch to a
128x64 graphic. As you can see, I'm into minimalist computing. I don't think anyone will be porting X to this.
My intended application is wearable computing---cpu unit lives in backpack, or
on belt, display/chord unit is held in hand, connected via curly phone-style cord.
Full featured palm/laptop request (Score:2)
I want something the size of a psion (preferably with a small keyboard) which can run gcc, has a serial port, uses AA batteries (so I can replace them with a quick visit to a newsagent), has at least a 24hr battery life, has a PCMCIA slot (probably for a 340mb IBM microdrive or an ethernet card) and fits nicely in my pocket.
I've looked at all sorts of devices, but they all fail on some criteria. The tiny librettos don't meet the battery criteria, psions and palms don't have the horsepower, the Aero and the Cassiopeaia (sp?) and similar things don't have PCMCIA (or ethernet/HD).
I'm thinking that a hacked lart [tudelft.nl] might do the trick, but I lack the skills to build it.
Please Santa.....
I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:4)
Re:Input devices (Score:2)
Just send the voice packets to your central server, have it convert it and send it back.
Re:iPaq? (Score:3)
Wouldn't that be iiPaq?
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Re:iPAQ? (Score:2)
Re:iPaq? (Score:1)
Re:New WM? (Score:2)
Bill - aka taniwha
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Mirror located at my site. (Score:1)
Have fun!
Re:Window management for Linux handhelds (Score:1)
But what do I know... I took the blue pill.
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Re:On second thought... (Score:1)
Re:Input devices (Score:1)
Re:Windows CE is better (Score:2)
-russ
Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:1)
So just leave it for the user to find. Some already own a Palm, and some will get it from... uhh... a friend with a Palm. Yeah, that's it.
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Sounds like you want a Hewlett Packard 200LX (Score:2)
I had one of these little guys for the longest time (Actually, it's younger brother, the 100LX). I loved it, sold it when I started using my pilot more though - I didn't have the money to get any more PCMCIA space for it, and it's built in memory was limitied at 1 meg (I belive there are people with 8 meg 200LX's, and the pcmcia card lets you expand that as big as you want!). This little gem had a wonderful keyboard - nice HP keys - and a seperate notepad. It ran DOS; I had a old version of Tubro C++ for it, although I'm sure it could run the DOS versions of gcc just fine.
Unfortunately, HP didn't continue developing this technology, so it's stuck with an 8088 series processor (IIRC) and while snappy, it won't run linux (it did run minix, though!). The Windows CE crap devices took over.. if HP put a clocked down 486 in one of these packages, it would be an incredible piece of hardware.
However, if you want some free advice, don't try to get an all in one unit, get a Palm V and a folding keyboard to write code on whereever, and then pick up a old Sony Vaio 505 for your breifcase and run Linux on it. This combination (although I use a Pro, not a V) has proven to work the best for me.. you get the best of both worlds.
What I'd be interested in knowing... (Score:1)
Re:Awesome (Score:2)
-russ
Re:Can we have class outside? (Score:1)
I don't know if there is a VNC client or wireless modem that would work w/ the iPaq, especially an iPaq running Linux. I don't believe that a wireless modem sleeve has been developed (much less released) yet.
Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:1)
Re:Sounds like you want a Hewlett Packard 200LX (Score:2)
Wasn't aware there wasn't better porting for GCC. Borland Turbo C++ ran just fine on the 'lil guy.
Now, your suggestion for coding on the Palm V is intriguing. What C++ compiler works on the Palm V?
I don't need a compiler to code. :) There's lots of good text editors available. I'm working on a small program to let me design C++ objects on the fly. Then, I can take the code and debug it at a later time.. I did play around with a nifty little program called PocketC for the Palm. Nice, but restricted..
I wonder if GCC might run in the DOS emulator that's available for WinCE machines.. although, that's why I have a vaio, it's a real computer, runs linux 100%, and isn't a lot bigger than those WinCE machines (and it wasn't even that much more expensive, if you shop around for one of the older ones w/o winmodems..)
Re:Full featured palm/laptop request (Score:1)
Any ideas???? Anyone????
Re:Cool! (Score:3)
Note that the TRG card was not solely providing 8MB of RAM, but also supplied some flashable ROM capabilities; I'm not sure which part was critical to letting Linux boot.
If you look at the uClinux web site, [uclinux.org] it really seems quite directed to use in embedded applications, and part of the documentation there suggests that many apps won't even need multitasking, which isn't terribly compatible with this being a "generally" useful platform.
I don't think you'll be running a uClinux PDA any time soon, suffice it to say...
iPaq? (Score:3)
kwsNI
That would be the perfect calculator ... (Score:1)
out and make a new calc on par with the 48G or
even the old 15's.
Now I can just run x48 on this, and back that up
with yorick or scilab.
Re:Window management for Linux handhelds (Score:1)
Re:Input devices (Score:1)
And if you have a sufficiently powerful server time should be minimal
This is a prime example of a network computer and is what I think is the future...all your home appliances could be dumb clients with wireless connections to your server
PDA? Micro "laptop"? (Score:1)
This is what I've been waiting for. Tiny little portable computers that hvae some horsepower. I've read up on the Itsy and such and really liked it and couldn't wait for a real product to come out. It's starting to look like a reality.
And Linux is a HUGE plus.
New WM? (Score:4)
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Re:Full featured palm/laptop request (Score:1)
Awesome (Score:1)
Re:New WM? (Score:1)
WMs such as 9wm, wmx or flwm work very well with restricted screen and memory resources. (I use wmx on full-size systems and I don't miss the fluff of Those Other Programs).
Nonsense (Score:1)
Visor (Score:1)
Voice has been done. (Score:1)
Dragon Systems demonstrates PDA speech recognition technology on Digital Equipment Corporation's StrongARM Processor in the Apple Newton MessagePad 2000.
http://www.dragonsystems
Amazing how you still can't get a unit to replace a Newton 2[01]00 messagepad (just yet) Someone needs to have one done by 2010, whent he messagepad has a date problem.
Its being /.-tted. (Score:1)
Can we have class outside? (Score:2)
Window management for Linux handhelds (Score:1)
The guy who mentioned Palm's UI has got it right: Linux needs a specific window manager tailored to the small screen.
Re:New WM? (Score:3)
Where to get the binaries/kernel from (Score:3)
Re:iPaq? (Score:1)
Re:Windows CE is better (Score:2)
Re:Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:1)
Every day we're standing in a wind tunnel/Facing down the future coming fast - Rush
How about this one?... (Score:5)
Xscribble? (Score:3)
Re:Window management for Linux handhelds (Score:1)
One issue that could be addressed is creating a window manager that is built around vertical screens. I saw that the guy had the thing turned 90 degrees just to run the X WM. Certainly, the device is designed ergonomically to be used vertical.
I love my Jornada, but i'm hunting the stores everyday for an Ipaq. Thank goodness for the corporate American Express card!
"Blue Elf has destroyed the food!"
Re:Scary install procedure.. (Score:1)
I wonder if you could innocently return it saying that it crashed and won't come back up. Blame microsoft for having a corruptable OS, and demand your money back. With any luck, they won't check things out and see that have a linux kernel is where the OS should be...
Re:need info (Score:2)
But basically what you have to do is use a Windoze machine to install CELoader and bootldr. Using CELoader, you start bootldr. Then you have to communicate over the serial port (you can convert the USB cradle into a serial interface if you know how to count pins and solder), and download new flash images using xmodem.
Yeah, it's only for hackers right now, but jump in! The water's fine!
-russ
p.s. I'll have mine at LWE. Find me and ask me to show it to you.
"Hands Off X" (Score:2)
Re:I-paq, linux, and x-copilot (Score:3)
Neat hack but... (Score:2)
Imagine connecting the Xserver on your handheld to the Xclient on your PC :) All you'd need is networking support for the PDA.
With a fast network this could really rock, you could offload all the processor intensive stuff onto your PC/whatever and just have the handheld render the graphics.
With the coming of net appliances and such this seems to me like a really great way to run your household.
But unless we do stuff like this, why would we run X on a handheld at all? I mean it might be better than Windows CE, but Palm OS was designed from the ground up for PDA's I can't see taking a huge piece of software like Windows or X to a handheld unless there are some inherent advantages in doing so.
It would really be cool to see this evolve beyond just another "neat hack".
Re:Left Handers (Score:2)
-russ
Re:How about this one?... (Score:2)
--Ben
Re:iPAQ. Wow, that's an original name. (Score:2)
An original name says almost as much about a machine as the color and translucency of the plastic in the case.
Cool interface for graphic arts (Score:4)
Yes, I know this is somewhat offtopic, but I can't help but dream about this.
Cool! (Score:3)
Does anyone know what is going on with Linux on Palm hardware? Last I checked you needed a special 8-meg TRG card. But now that Palms ship with 8-megs of RAM... I'd like to hear from anyone who knows anything!
Re:Scary install procedure.. (Score:2)
Knowing Wince, it'd probably be more useful as a doorstep... hehe...
iPAQ? (Score:2)
Wow, that's pretty cool... (Score:2)
Scary install procedure.. (Score:2)
If this installation fails then your iPAQ could become unusable.
This procedure has been tested on less than a handful of units. This version, however, has a check sum code to validate that an uncorrupted bootlader is being installed, and is less likely than the previous installation process to result in an installation failure.
If you install Linux at this time then you can not return to WinCE.
Work is underway to enable you to save your WinCE image before installing an operating system, but at this time implementation is not complete.
I'll wait at LEAST untill I have the failsafe to back to CE in worst case. Nothing would be worse then having to stare at a 500$ doorstop a few days after buying it..
Re:Color Text Encoding (Score:2)
Re:Input devices (Score:2)
Perhaps, but the good news is that the original developers of Unix figured that typing on a teletype was a PIA too, so most Unix/Linux commands are just a few letters.
Cryptic? Not at all, just PDA-friendly.
Color Text Encoding (Score:2)
On second thought... (Score:2)
...but I'm not about to pay $500 for just that. Okay, if I had an expensive net connection I could run telnet too, or check out that GNOME article from my lean-to...
One thing I love about Transmeta's devices is the x86 compatibility. Okay, I'm biased, but I think there's some value to being able to run DOSEmu or Wine, or for that matter RealPlayer 7...
But also, I just can't see a lot that I'd want to use this for... Maybe I'm just not a PDA kind of person. I guess I could run 'cal', but I despise post-it notes, and I'd want to use that stylus as little as possible.
Okay; end of useful content.
Wow, imagine a beowulf of these things!
Where are the warez for the StrongArm, dude?
Hey, can it play mp3's? ;)
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re:Windows CE is better (Score:2)
Re:Windows CE is better (Score:2)
So what you're still saying is that:
The X Windows GUI consumes less memory than WinCE with an App running on top of it?
TWM is a Window Manager. Get a real app running on top of that and then you can make the comparison between that and CE with a real app running on it (namely: explorer).
Also, presumably you have some hard data to back up your theory?
Simon