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Linux Software

Open Source Africa 92

Toucan Sam writes, "This could be of some interest to those who see the Linux community as being reserved for the first world exclusively." This doesn't just apply to Africa, but it's good to see that some people are thinking internationally.
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Open Source Africa

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  • Doesn't seem too difficult to me. Or do you mean how Tux ended up being the Linux mascot? In which case I'm not sure anyone really understands why.
  • Not quite. "Linux" is pronounced more like "leeh-nucks", definitely with a long "i", not the often-heard "linnecks" or even "lie-necks". Also, note there's a "u", don't replace it with an "e".

    leeh-nucks? sounds like linnecks to me

  • You know your site has gone mainstream when even ignorant rednecks start to log on.

    For the record Civilization itself is a function of international communication and cross cultural mixing. In other words nobody got civilized by living alone.

    To put that in perspective Europeans still lived in caves when Africans were building the pyramids. It was around the same time that the Chines were inventing Paper and Gunpowder. It's simply stupid arrogance to think that Europe invented everything or that civilization is a creation of any single race. In fact we would all be in the dark ages if people didn't link up.

    You see the specific wealth and power of individual nations is transient at best. There was a time when Babylon was unstoppable. At another point Rome ruled the world. The Mongols also had a turn at bat, as did England. Today it's America, In 200 years it will probably be what is today a 3rd world country.

    My bet is on India. South Africa also has a shot if they can get apartheid out of the mindset.

  • You know your site has gone mainstream when even ignorant rednecks start to log on.

    For the record Civilization itself is a function of international communication and cross cultural mixing. In other words nobody got civilized by living alone.

    To put that in perspective Europeans still lived in caves when Africans were building the pyramids. It was around the same time that the Chines were inventing Paper and Gunpowder. It's simply stupid arrogance to think that Europe invented everything or that civilization is a creation of any single race. In fact we would all be in the dark ages if people didn't link up.

    You see the specific wealth and power of individual nations is transient at best. There was a time when Babylon was unstoppable. At another point Rome ruled the world. The Mongols also had a turn at bat, as did England. Today it's America, In 200 years it will probably be what is today a 3rd world country.

    My bet is on India. South Africa also has a shot if they can get apartheid out of the mindset.
  • I would agree. South Africa is considered by the WTO and most of the world as being a fully industrized (not developing) country (eg., they have nuclear power, nuclear weapons, etc.) I live in South Africa. I have to disagree with this statement. This country is really NOT comparable to 1st world countries, for a few reasons:

    (a) South Africans don't know when they're being ripped off!

    I knew someone who hadn't bought a computer before, but needed two, for her kids to do their school projects and her husband and son to do their CAD applications. (They work for a design firm). Now, she was so adamant about buying a PIII, she didn't even consider the price difference between them and the AMD's, Celerons, etc!!!

    (b) Lack of proper education.

    When I was in high school, they were teaching TURBO PASCAL ON MS DOS 5.0 !!!! Even then it was outdated, but I'm truly shocked to hear that some schools in SA are still teaching it!!!!!!!! They should be teaching real technology: Zope, Python, Perl, Java, Linux, BSD, Cisco, Cyclades, FORTRAN, NT, Solaris, Tru 64 UNIX, OpenVMS, HP/UX, IRIX, Corel Certificate Maker, and C/C++.

    (c)People who don't tolerate anything.

    South Africans just don't accept anything accept the traditional, Afrikaans way of life. (Or Zulu, Xhosa, whatever the case may be). It seems the only ethnic group of the numerous ethnic groups here in SA that is even slightly broad-minded is mine - the English. Not that the other groups aren't nice people, they just don't like deviating from tradition.

    -C.Villopillil
  • And if we are in the 'first world', where are the 'second world' countries?

    I've wondered about the etymology of these terms forever. And I've never found anyone that knows.
    --
  • A year and a half ago I vivsited my daughter, a peace corps volunteer in Ghana West Africa. At the American Club in Accra I ran into another PCV who was trying to introduce computers to Ghana. He was trying to get donations of used i386 mothrboards and cards (to avoid most duty.) He only wanted to run Linux and establish a radio internet network. The hard wired phone lines in Ghana are not reliable outside Accra, if installed, cellphone charges are not cheap. Whe you can live in a country for seven dollars a day for food lodging transportation and clothing learning Linux on discarded hardware is a viable route.
  • One of the great problems that we have had in recent years is capital dependence. Developing countries - or for that matter developing communiteis in the United States - have had to bargain themselves down in order to "attract business"

    Reportedly, for example, state legislators in Maryland and Virginia are being sold on UCITA because they belief their adopting it will attract Silicon Valley-type businesses to their states. More typically, states and localities simply give tax breaks and other preferences.

    Particularly in the so-called Third World, this capital dependency is accute. The recent Asian financial crisis resulted when capital stampeded out of their countries. We often read about how the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is applying doses of "financial medicine" to various countries in order to "restore investor confidence" in them. We rarely read about how investors are disciplined in order to "restore labor confidence" or anything like that.

    In other words, we all dance to capital's tune.

    Software and information technology are central to capital development because re-engineering plays a vital role in the modern economy. Information technology makes all these restructuings and downsizings that we read about feasible. For example, Ivar Jacobson's _The Object Advantage: Business Process Reengineering with Object Technology_ explores this on the micro scale.

    So software - or business software at least - functions as encapsulated capital. Open source software therefore functions as the free transfer of capital.

    This free transfer, in turn, reduces the need of either developing communities or developing countries to bargain themselves down in order to obtian capital. They can generate their own, thank you very much.
  • by fingal ( 49160 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @07:28AM (#1260040) Homepage
    [offtopic]I find it slightly sad that whenever a story concerning non-US localised things that not only do the trolls feel it time to put on their racist bigot heads and start spouting stuff that is racist, offensive and basically fundamentally wrong, but also that people feel it necessary to sink down to their level and get involved with the fight. Leave them to it, thats what I say.[/offtopic]

    Still, on a slightly lighter note, here is some stuff on the other problem that Africa faces beyond software and hardware costs which is connectivity. If you don't have a pipe then your computing options are extremely limited. If you look at The Project for Information Access and Connectivity [piac.org] (especially the Internet Status at Feasibility Study Universities [piac.org] table) you will see that most large universities are still trying to get by on a 64k (or worse) internet connection. Not totally optimal.

    However, there does seem to be quite a strong move to address this problem, namely the Africa One [afbis.com] submarine fibre optic cable project. This is a 30,000 km fibre-optic ring that will encircle the continent "by the year 2000" (I don't know of the current status although it is seems that Lucent [lucent.com] is now involved) with 32 main pipes from the ring into coastal landing points.

    Once this system is in place and local governments (hopefully) see the benefits of extending the pipes in-land then we should see a massive increase in the African Internet population and yes I am pretty sure that Linux will be one of the technologies that makes this possible.

  • I think you missed the point. There are computers in Africa, believe it or not. It's not entirely unpopulated. S. Africa for example. They feel the same pressures over there regarding this issue, I would imagine. Enough to create the need for open source, apparently.

    I would agree. &nbsp South Africa is considered by the WTO and most of the world as being a fully industrized (not developing) country (eg., they have nuclear power, nuclear weapons, etc.), no different than most European countries.&nbsp I would expect that majority of the use of Linux would occur there first and spread via the OAU to major cities in places like Zimbawe, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, and Senegal, Ethiopia,and Kenya. &nbsp For example, TUCOWS (a major Linux distributor), has locations in South Africa, Zimbawe, Ivory Coast, Mozambique, Kenya, and Egypt. &nbsp And if you go to this link [linux.org], you will note that there are *9* South African Linux Users groups listed and here [linux.org] you will see that there are 4 LUGs in Egypt. &nbsp There are Linux references (link and "counter") for Zimbabwe [icon.co.zw], Ethiopia [li.org], Sierra Leone [li.org], Togo [li.org], et. al. &nbsp I also expect that they are also already big users of the *BSDs right now.

    Note that with many of those countries, you have 2 classes - the very wealthy, who have access to everything including the net, and the poor. &nbsp The continent is not what Hollywood or the National Geographic has portrayed it as being. &nbsp Once the colonial puppets are finally booted out and the continent stablizes a bit, you'll have a near 1 billion person potential market there, and a number of large businesses have already considered this fact and are opening up shop there.

  • So there is a pretty good chance that antarctica could be called whealthiest of all continents! :)
  • These terms date from the cold war era.

    The first world was the United States, the western European nations, and their allies. The second world was the communist USSR, the eastern European nations, and their allies. The third world was the African and Asian nations that were neutral.
  • "[What about America]...populated by the Europeans and Africans?"

    Yeah, and the African-Americans have had a HUGE impact on computer technology in the U.S.

    "...the Portugese, Dutch and British occupations were ages ago." Ages? I guess if you define last decade, in the case of South Africa as being 'ages ago'. The Dutch presence is still strong there and the infrastructure they setup is still in place.

    As for Brazil, the Portugese bloodline is alive and well in that country, even though they are independent. The default language of the country is Portugese for fuck's sake. They are Portugese people that happen to live in Brazil.

    Granted, India hasn't been occupied for a while, but under the right circumstances they are a very productive race. Indians in America tend to do very well for themselves while most live in squalor in their home country. I believe that to be a political problem with India's government as opposed to a problem with the people.

    "How do you think that has any connection to the amount of silicon and fibre-optic in these countries?" Well, in South America, the telecommunications industry is subsidized by the governments. And labor is EXTREMELY cheap over there. I actually have worked with many companies that export to South America (I live in Miami) and they are behind us. The vast majority of South Americans are still using 486 and P5 machines.

    As for China, I never mentioned them. My post was a response to someone else who mentioned the countries in question.
  • Nope. If what I said was false, THEN I would be prejudice.

    Yeah, if the world was not flat, then you would be wrong... Wait, you are!

    "Brazil (populated by the Portugese), South Africa (populated by the Dutch) and India (occupied by the British for decades) are all large consumers of computing technology and are relatively well-integrated into the Internet."

    It seems to me you have missed some of those NG specials (or had you switched to Jerry Springer instead?). See how much influence the British have in the shaping of the technological economy in India and then come back talk to us. And WRT to the Afrikaaner in SA , if they had their way SA would be just one huge plantation/gold mine operated by black slave labor. Quite progressive that, eh?

  • As for Brazil, the Portugese bloodline is alive and well in that country, even though they are independent. The default language of the country is Portugese for fuck's sake. They are Portugese people that happen to live in Brazil.

    Definitely, Talisman, you should go through those National Geographic specials again, because your knowledge of contemporary geography is sorely lacking. The Brazilian are no more Portuguese than the Mexican are Spanish, that is, apart from the language and a very strong cultural influence in their colonial past, both countries owe more, culturally speaking, to the mixture of ethnicities that took place there, than to this purported benign civilizing effort by European powers.

    But despite all you geographical ineptitude, the point that people should be tearing apart in your comment is: wht the hell is your problem with people in Africa making a sound, both from a technological and economical point of view, decision in the shaping of thein computational infrastructure? You think maybe going through all stages that more industrialized and affluent societies went would avail them much? Or do you not think it is a smart move to try to play catch up tackling what's currently leading edge technology?

    Get off your high horse and walk a while in the fields. You may learn somthing.

  • And if we are in the 'first world', where are the 'second world' countries?

    The second world was the former Soviet bloc. The term ~third world~ was used to designate the non-aligned nations movement, started by the likes of Tito (Yugoslavia), Nehru (india) and Nasser (Egypt), which congregated nations that did not side with either the US or the USSR in the cold war era. The term stick, even after the downfall of the Soviet empire, and now designates the "non-industrialized" (another misnomer) developing nations in South America, Africa and Asia.

    Incidentally, what makes you think we're all in the firsat world? Slashdot is a big place, now :-)

  • Imagine the news release:

    Microsoft Jumpstarts Subsaharan Africa

    Seattle, WA (UIP)
    In a startling business move with profound geopolitial ramifications, Microsoft founder, Bill Gates, today announced a moratorium on the enforcement of Microsoft's copyrights within Subsaharan Africa for at least the next 10 years. "The struggling nations of Subsaharan Africa need to leapfrog into the global internet economy and bypass the stages of economic development that have, historically, destroyed indigenous cultures and their ecologies." said Mr. Gates as his wife, former President Bill Clinton, Craig McCaw, Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, South African President Nelson Mandella and Zulu historian Credo Muthwa [animals.co.za] looked on. He continued, "The wanton rape of the environment and tribal societies is perhaps beyond hope elsewhere in the world, but Africa still possesses much of the deepest heritage of mankind. It is not too late to protect it from modernization. Postmodern economies can leapfrog and preempt such destruction."

    Craig McCaw also announced, "We are pleased to announce unlimited access to Iridium [iridium.com]/Teledesic [teledesic.com] internet satellites within Subsaharan Africa for the duration of Mr. Gate's moratorium. Our satellite infrastructure is underutilized in the Southern Hemisphere generally, and Subsaharan Africa in particular. This will be a small investment with tremendous global benefits."

    Mr. Gates announced additional endowments from the his private foundation to provide ground stations for McCaw's internet satellites and thin client PC's with access to computer-based training for African school districts. In a move labeled by many pundits as "eccentric" Gates targeted his largest endowment, $1 billion to The Bonobo Protection Fund [gsu.edu]. The Bonobo Protection fund will install an enormous array of cameras and microphones throughout the entire ecological range of the Bonobos in the Congo and Zaire. Real time unedited multimedia feeds of Bonobo social dynamics will become available around the world on the internet. These raw data streams are expected to make their way into academic institutions, but also the entertainment industry. Bids are already coming in from various internet pay per view channels on the theory that natural Bonobo social behavior will serve a viewing public that has come to expect primitive primate behavior on everything from talk shows to political debate. The profits of "Bonobo TV" are expected to pay for policing of the habitat as well as maintaining the array of sensors. The policing will be aided by the video cameras which are expected to provide unprecedented security for the Bonobo habitat against intrusion by careless or hostile humans.

  • ..."in developing countries - there the time is just not as valuable"

    First off, I'd like to thank you for your usage of "developing nation". It's just as bad as calling it a third world country. It is ironic that the banner on the page I'm tying this is for IBM "moving at the speed of e-business", for that is exactly my point. The speed of e-business does not vary based upon your time zone, nationality, or geographic location. To say that tech people in the reigons of Africa, Eastern Europe, or Latin America have more time to spend installing linux is ludicrous. To say that, as I believe AC has said, time is not as valuble in any country besides "developed" nations is also ridiculous. There are 24 hours in each person's day around the world, and each minute is as valuable to one person as the next.

    We cannot write off other nations or give them second rate or our discarded products because we believe they have the time to fiddle with them. If the USA's seemingly infinite tech structure can't deal with 486s and Linux, what makes one think that they will be welcomed in another country? An old computer is not necessarily better than no computer at all. This has been pointed out to be by people at schools who don't want old hardware donations from the company I work at. It's better to buy new equipment to teach people on, and it's worth every penny in support hassles.

    Over 50% of the world's population has never made a phone call. Should we make a direct leap onto the internet for them? I would imagine that a graphical Linux on capable, stripped down for cost hardware would be an excellent en masse computing solution. Linux, a Celeron, 32mb RAM, 3gb HD, small graphics card is all it takes. Shipping 486s all over the place is not the solution.

    Time is what you make of it, not what other people tell you it's worth!
  • You really are an inept twat to arent you. The Afrikaaner is not a racist. Some people are racist but this does not make an entire group racist. The Afrikaaner that I know work together with all racises and cultures probably better than you will ever know or be able to. South Africa is a leader in Africa in technology, and structure. They provide the starting block for some of the latest banking systems in the world.
  • by SEE ( 7681 )
    Go to www.slackware.com and grab ZipSlack. To quote:
    Below is the minimum hardware you need in order to run ZipSlack.


    386SX processor
    8 megabytes of RAM
    100 megabytes of hard disk space on a FAT or FAT32 filesystem

    NOTE: The additional RAM is needed to compensate for the generic kernel included in ZipSlack. There is an addon for ZipSlack which installs an 8 MB swap file in the \LINUX directory. You must have this addon if you want to boot ZipSlack on a system with less than 8 MB of RAM.
    So, now you've got a Linux installation in less than 100 megs, on a 386SX, with 8 megs of RAM.

    Steven E. Ehrbar
  • Africa is widely considered the be the poorest continent in the world. The fact that they're beginning to embrace open source indicates not only their need for low-cost modern technology, but also their need for any sort of modern technology. Welcome to the 20th century, Africa. I'm glad you made it before it ends.


    ---
  • I think you missed the point. There are computers in Africa, believe it or not. It's not entirely unpopulated. S. Africa for example. They feel the same pressures over there regarding this issue, I would imagine. Enough to create the need for open source, apparently.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 19, 2000 @06:24AM (#1260061)
    While being a better overview of what Linux is, the article still occasionally misrepresents Linux.
    My point is, though, that taking the cultural differences between the Westen world and the "less devleoped countries" into account, the social culture of the latter suits the Linux uuser profile much more.
    Let me expand: In the recent article in the Boston Globe, which provoked a strong reaction from the /. users, the author states that "even technically competent people don't have the time to figure out how to install Linux".
    This is a true much more for a technically competent person in the Western world than in developing countries - there the time is just not as valuable. Hence in Russia, fo instance, even with the lack of good network connections, Linux is a lot more popular than one expects.
    Thanks

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Poorest if you don't count Antarctica...
  • True, but how many people do you know of living in Antarctica?
  • For those who do not already know, Linux is pronounced with a short i like Li-nucks.

    Not quite. "Linux" is pronounced more like "leeh-nucks", definitely with a long "i", not the often-heard "linnecks" or even "lie-necks". Also, note there's a "u", don't replace it with an "e".

    Linus himself saying it:
    http://www2.cybercities.com/~jr ocho/faqs/english.au [cybercities.com]
  • Actually, if you look at it from a per capita standpoint, Antartica is pretty well off.

    The only people living there are research scientists, and they probably do pretty well financially.
  • At least you're not prejudiced, eh?

    Sheesh.

    FYI, civilisation doesn't begin and end in North America. South America, Africa and Asia may be in less than ideal conditions, but aren't all just primitive jungles either; Brazil, South Africa and India are all large consumers of computing technology and are relatively well-integrated into the Internet.

    So lay off the bigotry, for a change.
  • I'm still trying to get to the article itself - so maybe this is spoken of - but seeing the headline "Open Source Africa" made me think of the philosphical model of open source applied to Africa's societal problems (little things like ongoing genocidal wars).

    In natural resources such as uranium, gold, diamonds, etc. it is actually a tremendously rich continent. So how can the people use the wealth to quit killing each other?
  • The last time we saw a phenomena like this was in the immediate post-colonial era from the 1950s-1970s. Nationalist governments in Egypt, India, China and elsewhere stopped using imported products to spur industrial development at home.

    Bad example. These countries are still 3rd world and stuck in profound poverty.

    However I do remember the results of isolationism and protectionism, when in the 70's the US auto industry, protected from imports by import teriffs became complacent. Without significant competition the big 3, churned out flaming Pinto's and low quality cars that fell apart in 5 years or less.

    I see the MS DOJ case as important because if MS is allowed to compete unfairly it is the same as protectionism. I have encountered many times the attitude amongst the general population that MS's and Intel's virtual monoply is good for the US since it allows the US to dominate the computer industry. Sorry wrong answer. The rest of the world will move on, and innovation will come from somewhere else and the US will play catch up again.

    If anything history clearly shows that advancement, innovation and economic growth springs from an environment that is both free and fair.

    What a minute I am way off topic. Oh well.
  • That there is pride in doing things -RIGHT-, not merely in doing things the same way as some individuals who are perceived successful.

    Linux will be influential in Africa, not because of its logo, its mints, or its rebellious nature. It'll be influential because it's the right tool for the right job. Nothing more and nothing less.

    I think this article has a lot to say, even if on the surface it doesn't. I think it says that Africans are fed up of being spoon-fed other people's ideas of what a solution should be, and are willing to pick up the challange of finding out what's right for them.

    Yes, a lot of readers of Slashdot have probably come to the same conclusion. But a lot won't have. There will always be people who use a tool, or buy a product, purely because of the label. To have an entire continent wake up and realise the label isn't worth a damn thing, and that it's the product you're buying, is absolutely staggering!

    It's very rare to get that kind of enlightenment, even in "technically advanced" countries, such as the US, Europe or Japan. Nike can charge up to a thousand times as much as anyone else, and get away with it, because people crave the labels. It wouldn't even matter if the shoes fell apart if you tried to wear them. People would still clamour for them. Most people are sheep.

    But here's an entire continent that's poised to evolve from sheep to genuinely aware, sentient beings. Anthropologists claim humans evolved from apes. Personally, I think the process went in reverse for the brain. But if we're finally going to see self-aware, competent humans, that will be a great day indeed!

  • What we are talking about here is part of the long-term shift away from "western" culture into something new. Frankly, this scares me shitless, because there is no telling which way this shift will go, except that it will be different, and different people will be in charge. I think we are eventually going to see a shift as great as that from the dominance of the Arabic world to the European Renaissance and Europe's eventual domination. Linux being adopted by Africa and China is just a piece of that shift.

    Hold on to your hats everyone, and don't forget where your towel is.
  • > There's only one problem... how do you explain Tux to them?

    How about: "It's a penguin" already.

    StrawberryFrog, Living in Cape Town, Africa, Currently wearing a tshirt with a large Penguin (tux) on it, thinking of the large, noisy and ever-growing colony of Jackass penguins on a beach near here.

    See
    http://www.wcape.school.za/mickle/penguins/jacka ss.htm
    http://www.botany.uwc.ac.za/Envfacts/facts/pengu in.htm

    Wait a minute... noisy Jackass penguins? As seen on slashdot?

  • I agree. However, Pakistan has come up with the money to buy nuclear weapon technology while their people starve and suffer the worst kinds of inhuman treatment imaginable. A great many Africans are starving, and not because of diverted funds. Fortunately they've made the decision to channel their resources into a free OS that will hopefully help to educate the populace as to how to play catch up with the rest of the world on a variety of levels. And to think they did it all without developing weapons of mass destruction. Do you hear me, Pakistan?


    ---
  • There is no reason to justify that software should be a tool restricted to a small part of the humans. Computers are now taking a growing place into how people communicate, solve scientific and technical issues, how art may spread, how society evlolves. Society should not build itself entirely over business and money, and Free Software is part of this idea. The magic coktail made of freedom+lowcost+hitech perfectly fit this role. So Free Software may be a passion for some of us, even make some others earn money, but the most important is that it is designed to be open to everybody, regardless of who he is, preserving freedom and equality, in the limits of its scope, of course.

    So Thanks to RMS and the FSF who designed and formalised how to protect Free Software and let it grow and improve.
  • "...hardware such as those old 386s can be put to use."
    Yeah, right. What recent version of Linux will run on a 386 with maybe 8 Meg of RAM (but probably only 4) *and* fit on that under 528M hard drive that's the biggest thing the mobo's BIOS will take? I've got some old hardware I'd like re-use. Anybody know where I can pick up a copy of "Linux for BoatAnchors"?
  • If South African programmers are that much cheaper then it would make sence for some cash strapped U.S. companies to hire south afircan programmers to do things for them remotly. Dose this happen now?

    It does happen - I know a company in Johannesburg that specialises in remote admin for some U.S. clients. Their prices are very competitive because of the exchange rate and they work in shifts to provide a round-the-clock service.
    But more often what actually happens is that S African programmers get tired of a) being paid $1100 per month or less b) treated like sh*t in the workplace and c) the crime levels in the country and so they emigrate to the U.S., Canada, the U.K. or Australia. Those are skills that this country can ill afford to lose.

  • Wow. You have just demonstrated your utter lack of knowledge.

    There are actually more written Languages in Africa than in Europe. Africa has several alphabets too.

    It is worth noting that Egyptian Hieroglyphics are one of the oldest known written languages.
  • > The US has the richest poor people of any country on the planet.

    No. Just for info, at least Switzerland, Luxemburg, Denmark and Norway have richer people.

    For Norway, this is mainly due to huge natural resources (gas, oil, fishing), _plus_ a very clever management of these resources,

    Switzerland and Luxemburg are wealthy mostly thanks to foreign and illegitimate money poured in their black holes usually called "banks".

    I don't know of any obvious structural explanation for Denmark.

  • About 18 months or so ago, I was involved in a project to help recondition old 386/486/P1 machines to run Linux and ship them out to the developing world. Ultimately, we folded because our main contact had to leave Britain and we couldn't carry on without his local knowledge. It's nice to see that what I always felt was a good idea (Linux for the developing world) has occured to other people too. I'd definitely be up for having another go at a project like this. Anyone know of any projects already running that could do with some help? If not, anyone up for starting one?
  • When I was in high school, they were teaching TURBO PASCAL ON MS DOS 5.0 !!!! Even then it was outdated, but I'm truly shocked to hear that some schools in SA are still teaching it!!!!!!!! They should be teaching real technology: Zope, Python, Perl, Java, Linux, BSD, Cisco, Cyclades, FORTRAN, NT, Solaris, Tru 64 UNIX, OpenVMS, HP/UX, IRIX, Corel Certificate Maker, and C/C++.

    I graduated in 97/98. In my junior year, the only classes that were offered were Basic/Qbasic. When a faction of computer-related students approached the administration about the inadequacies of their 'computer programming curriculum' they saw things our way. They only saw fit to add Pascal and C++. There's still much room for improvement, but it's not much different in a lot of places here in the U.S.

    I knew someone who hadn't bought a computer before, but needed two, for her kids to do their school projects and her husband and son to do their CAD applications. (They work for a design firm). Now, she was so adamant about buying a PIII, she didn't even consider the price difference between them and the AMD's, Celerons, etc!!!

    When you go shopping, you don't expect the comparisons to hop into your lap. Unless you're saying that resellers hide this information to get you to buy the more expensive products. But research is important.
  • They do not need as many drivers for the latest hardware. While people in the USA are throwing away their Pentium 233 boards, in poorer countries there are still many 486's working.

    Moderators, take note:
    1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything

  • I say goddamn!, why did maxis have to go and butcher perky pat?
  • Of course, basic education is still the biggest problem. Pencils and notebooks are more needed than computers in the poorest countries.

    Excactly. The infrastructure we're used to in the west just isn't there. I saw somewhere that 2/3 of the worlds population have never made a phonecall in their life, and that probably applies especially to the poorer countries. So even though Pakistan can produce sophisticated technology, that technology is only available to a very small percentage of Pakistanis. Same with some African countries, even if they can hook up to the internet, it isn't much use to those who don't have access to telephones, or even electricity.

    Gummi

  • You would be surprised by how advanced is the technology in many poor countries. Didn't Pakistan recently test nuclear weapons? Countries are poor because of their history, or because of their political and economic system, not because they don't have advanced technology.

    The problem is making that technology available to the people in those countries. Open Source can make a big contribution to that end, by allowing low-cost technical education.

    Of course, basic education is still the biggest problem. Pencils and notebooks are more needed than computers in the poorest countries.

    Moderators, take note:
    1)Read the moderation guidelines before moderating anything

  • People have been looking for a haven for servers, somewhere where DeCSS code could be worked on at a permanent site, for example. South Africa is already ignoring patents on AIDS medicines for instance and with all this open source in the country; might be willing to stand up to RIAA and MPAA among others.

    Is there anyone in Africa who would like to start a server haven? Is there a way to rent or buy access to a server with good bandwidth in Africa? Is there a country which is especially immune to pressures from copyright laws?
  • This just about settles it. I can't say that the kernel won't split. I can't say that every distro will run every other distro's software; but we are now entering the era where Linux moves out of the early adopter phase, past the major market share phase, and into inevitable market domination. Linux's free nature, it powerful feature set, and plain old nationalism are combining to end the OS market as we have come to know it. Every nation on earth now believes that the high tech cocktail of Internet, software and next generation technology startups is the magic potion to lift them to first world status. Just as they once believed that industrialization would be their salvation in the past. The story of the next few years will be that countries like India, China, etc will push to create a software industry like that which exists in the US. Linux is the software that makes this all possible. Why base your software industry around Microsoft products when you can use Linux and avoid sending money back to the US. The last time we saw a phenomena like this was in the immediate post-colonial era from the 1950s-1970s. Nationalist governments in Egypt, India, China and elsewhere stopped using imported products to spur industrial development at home. The adoption of Linux in African nations and China can be seen as the first wave of a new supply substitution economic policy. This leads to a whole new set of questions. Will the US continue to dominate the software marketplace, or will it go into decline like the US manufacturing sector? Is the US in danger of becoming isolated as the rest of the world adopts Linux and we stay on Microsoft technology, much like the US uses English measurements; while the world goes metric? Finally what are the greater ramifications for the software industry? Will open source movements in databases, web servers, etc lead to the decline of the Enterprise software market?
  • "...hardware such as those old 386s can be put to use." Yeah, right. What recent version of Linux will run on a 386 with maybe 8 Meg of RAM (but probably only 4) *and* fit on that under 528M hard drive that's the biggest thing the mobo's BIOS will take? I've got some old hardware I'd like re-use.

    There are a bunch of "micro" Linuxes out there that are designed to run entirely on a floppy like Trinux [trinux.org], although they recommend at least 12MB RAM... &nbsp There's also the Linux Router Project [linuxrouter.org] and FreeSCO [freesco.org] for using Linux as a router (which is what alot of the old 386s and 486s are used for). &nbsp For a list of full blown distributions, you can go here [dmoz.org]. &nbsp This is pretty cool.

  • Question: one thing about Linux is that it is MUCH easyer to telecommute via Linux then via Windows. If South African programmers are that much cheaper then it would make sence for some cash strapped U.S. companies to hire south afircan programmers to do things for them remotly. Dose this happen now? and do you think it could be much of a selling point for Linux?
  • Yes, it is a good thing that developing countries are considering Linux. Yes, Linux is a very good system for them and us. And yes, we have heard all this before. The article didn't give anyone who's found their way to /. anything new to read or think about.


    News must be scarce on a weekend ;)

  • by mav[LAG] ( 31387 ) on Saturday February 19, 2000 @07:06AM (#1260114)
    This article makes some good points. Certainly very few of us in Africa can afford the kind of hardware and pipes that we see reviewed in U.S. magazines all the time.
    Just to put some things in perspective:

    * South Africa has more telephone lines than the rest of Africa put together yet our national telephone penetration is about 8 per 100 inhabitants.
    * A 64 kilobit permanent connection to the Net here costs roughly $1000 per month.
    * The telephone operator is a government-enforced monopoly which is partly owned by SBC and Telekom Malaysia
    * The exchange rate of the South African Rand to the U.S. $ is about 6:1

    What has all this to do with software? Quite a bit actually. The more costs you can get rid of the better, and Linux has shown itself time and again in this market to be cheaper, less expensive to run and completely free from the local piracy issues we read about on a more or less permanent basis here. This is also an extremely price-sensitive market, almost but not quite as sensitive as India.
    Currently the most IT spend in the country is done by the top 100 companies but that is swinging quickly to the hundreds of thousands of SMEs. When they take the biggest piece of the IT spending pie, then Linux will become an even more popular choice for those businesses.
    Microsoft in South Africa is a pretty slick operation but they've made their cock-ups. I sat in on a seminar for teachers once when the local MS salesperson threatened them all with death unless they paid full price for NT, Office and some other products. There were quite a few Linux converts that day :)
    Check out this site [lpa.org.za] for the local Linux umbrella body which IMHO is doing an excellent job of promoting the OS. As an example, South Africa's equivalent of Comdex attracted about 50 000 visitors last year. The local Linux lads managed to sell in the region of 15 000 RedHat and Suse distros during the show - which means nearly 1 in 3 visitors walked away with Linux on CD.

  • Actually, here's a piece of info for you in the Northern Hemisphere:
    Penguins often get caught by sea currents and wash up in the beaches of Africa, South America, Australia, and Southern Hemisphere islands.

    Yes, penguins can be found in the wild in Africa. But not in North America. Perhaps gringos should consider a new Linux mascot, to be used exclusively in their continent...

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  • I saw a similar article in a swedish newspaper just the other day but it was about India, and how people there wanted to create an adapted linux distribution(better interface, language support) so even the poorest people would get to use a computer. I look forward with great hope, think about the future then maybe whole continents grow upp using free software!!!

How many hardware guys does it take to change a light bulb? "Well the diagnostics say it's fine buddy, so it's a software problem."

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