VA, O'Reilly, and SGI Sponsor Debian in a Box 97
Anonymous Coward writes "According to this News.com article. VA Linux Systems, O'Reilly and Associates, and SGI. Will be co-sponsoring a retail box version of Debian GNU/Linux. In addition VA will be helping to setup toll free technical support for Debian."
Debian has NO competition (Score:1)
For the record, acording to my archive potato has
Over 500 volunteer package maintainers.
about 4050 easilly installable Packages
aproaching 1.6GB (i386) of compressed binaries (not counting source)
YOU get to pick and choose what you apps you want running on your system. You have much more control over your system, if you dont like a particular ftp server or dhcp client fine you have a choice, install your favourite.
As you can understand from other posters, the update feature is pretty unique. The ease of use of updating makes official releases much less important.
With debian its a hassle free incremental upgrade every day.
One thing redhat and mandrake have over debian is a really nice default X-windows layout. But hey im sure debian will catch up.
Debian is not in crisis (historical perspective :) (Score:4)
But I wanted to point out that Debian is a free software project like any other, and that means that all the dirty laundry gets aired on public mailing lists. That may make some people uncomfortable, but it's not a sign of impending doom. In fact, it's remarkably similar to what happens every time Debian takes more than about a week to release a new distribution. (Yes, some people were complaining about the release cycle within a week or two after slink was released. Go figure.)
On a different note, there has been a lot of discussion on the Debian mailing lists about fixing the long release cycle-time, and eventually things will probably change for the better. But with a few hundred vocal, independent-minded developers, there's a fair bit of organizational inertia to overcome.
Debian as a whole is doing quite well, compared to some past crisis points. In answer to someone else's post, I wouldn't judge the suitability of a distribution based on "its future". Use what works now -- and with Debian you can either have the rock-solid stable distribution, an "unstable" distribution that is often as solid as some commercially-released distributions, or you can selectively pull the sources from the unstable archives to update your stable distribution (this is what I use for machines I'm paid to maintain). Debian includes some nice source management tools to help automate downloading and building updated versions of packages from source. Debian isn't for people who have never used Linux (IMO), but for those who have some experience and want a system they can abuse and that will rarely let them down, Debian's the ticket.
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:3)
Once you've installed slink---Do a minimal install just enough to get apt-get working---you can upgrade to potato; look at debian.org to find out how to configure your system to do this. This can be done overnight (or over several nights)---again start small and build from there.
Potato is leading edge stuff! and it keeps you there with minimal or no effort. Sometimes things break a little but I've never had a serious problem and when something breaks you just hop on #debian at OPN and the solution to your troubles is laid out for you.
#debian is great! the best thing about it are the bots: apt and dpkg. These guys know everything and will tell you what you need to know.
What makes debian so great is the enormous set of packages they have. Want to easily install some little known package? Try apt-get install and chances are you'll get it along with all the other packages it requires that you don't already have. The great thing is now that you have installed the package apt-get will keep it up-to-date without you have to worry about it.
The other thing that debian-potato does extremly well is configuration. It remembers how you like things and keeps it that way and if some package has changed drastically it will warn you about it.
OK this is a bit woffley but I just wanted to describe a little bit how fantastic debian is and to encourage you to give it a good try-out.
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Hey the Sega Dreamcast ... (Score:1)
Ok, not 100% spitting image, but darn close !
Re:I dream of Debian... (Score:1)
Really, though...what connection does that logo have to debian? Is there supposed to be a story behind it? To me, it doesn't suggest anything about what it's meant to represent.
As swirls go, it's a nice one though...and if it isn't Debian's logo at all, then I'll have my crow with plenty of salt, thank you.
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
I'm also looking at Stamped for pentium optimizations. Is it worth it? Can I just recompile another distro's kernel with pgcc or something??
Re:How? (Score:1)
Someone should moderate that AC down to "Flamebait".
I run a Debian system, and hey, lookee here: glibc 2.1.2, kernel 2.2.12, and XFree86 3.3.5.
Gosh, you're right, Debian is outdated as hell, and people have no way of tracking the bleeding edge. My roster of installed package versions is just the product of hallucinogenic drugs.
While other distros are engaged in version number inflation and letting their marketing departments make ever more product decisions, Debian is releasing nothing before its time. SMP lockups are still being tracked down in the latest stable Linux kernel, for instance (see kernel-traffic). It's good that Debian is taking its time to release.
Want to know how to have an influence on Debian's release schedule? Become a developer and exercise one voice among 500.
Packaging is only as good as the maintainers (Score:1)
Yes, it can fail. It does so when the package maintainers fail. For example, I was just installing Slink on my laptop, and I noticed that XEmacs insisted that some sound processing library was required to install it. Excuse me? A sound processing library required for a text editor?
Also, dselect can be anal about requirments. I decided to install the PCMCIA modules. Dselect says "But wait! You need a kernel image package!" I already have a bleeding kernel! Wouldn't be able to boot the system without one, would I? So, I say no, I don;t want the kernel image package. But, when I go to install... sure enough, it decideds to install the kernel image package despite my having said no. Fortunately, I can just tell it not to configure the kernel, which prevents it from stomping the kernel I so carefully configured.
Yes, I know, apt is much better than dselect, but I'm waiting for apt to have a freindly front end.
Debian has its place amongst the constellation of distributions. I'm not sure that it's the best for the shrink-wrapped market of general novice users. I tend to think that anyone who would really benefit from the stability that Debian gives you would be smart enough to download it themselves, or know how to order from CheapBytes.
Being an all volunteer organization, it's hard for Debian to push out the versions that others, like Red Hat, manage to do. Slink is too long in the tooth. It's still using the 2.0 kernel series. Lots of software out there now require newer libraries. I got so frustrated that I switched from Debian over to Mandrake. Sure, it's a bit less stable, but it takes advatage of hardware that 2.0 kernels simply don't.
I'm sure a lot of people will say "just upgrade to potato." But, what's the point of having a release when to get the best software, you have to raid the unstable tree?
Debian is great for when the newest and the latest isn't really what you need. My laptop is a prety finiky piece of machinery. Red Hat tends to lock hard on it when doing stuff like using the sound card. Debian is rock-solid on it. I suspect, when I finally get a broadband connection and set up a small home server, that I'll be using Debian on that, too. On a server, the latest and greatest takes a back seat to what really works 24/7.
"Da box" has arrived. (Score:1)
Some people don't think a piece of software even exists unless the see "da box" somewhere to verify their suspicions. Because they believe that's where software comes from.
Does the Debian project want to reinforce these beliefs even further?
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
slink is the code name of the current Debian 2.1 release. potato is the code name for the current 'unstable' branch, which will become 2.2 (or whatever the next release is).
It sounds like the kernel has some modifications or something...does that mean I can't just download a new kernel and recompile? Am I locked down to Debian's package system entirely? The kernel is packaged for Debian, but otherwise is stock. You can (easily) build a new kernel from source and install it. Debian uses the 'alien' package to install from RPM's and other package managers, so you're not limited to .deb's.
I'm running a Debian 2.1 (slink) with kernel 2.2.10, glibc2.1, etc. No problem.
Re:Sounds good for everybody (Score:1)
This isn't really being marketed to the average American family. I think it's being marketed much more towards geeks.
Re:gnome-apt! :) (Score:1)
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Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
Slink is the current stable release. Potato is the development release (which should be freezing rsn).
You can use any kernel you want, really. Slink is built around the 2.0 series, but you can upgrade. Potato has 2.2 at the core. There are no changes to the standard kernel -- but the system does come with a very cool package for making a new kernel and injecting it into the dpkg system.
No, you're not locked into Debian's package system -- rpm comes standard(?), too. But trust me: once you've used dpkg/apt you won't want to go back.
Re:Without reboot... (Score:1)
(to both of you)
You all missed the point (Score:1)
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Re:It shouldn't be sold in stores... (Score:1)
The Debian way (Score:4)
Debian is something different from the others. Yes, they may have packages, but Debian takes that idea to the extreme.
So, if you are using another distro, give Debian a try.
Bye! Did I sell it? =)
Competing in different areas (Score:2)
I seriously doubt that most debian people judge the degree of there success as to wether they have as you put it a "commercially sellable product".
Me, i would judge the success of a volunteer organisation by the work they do not the feasibility of a potential IPO.
Ive never had a problem with the debian packaging system, it has a lot of support. Do you degrudge them for not using the Redhat Package Manager?
Debian fill a very valuable segment of the linux market. They do have more support from "experts", but i seriously doubt they go out of there way to "deliberately sneer and shun newbies"
Whats wrong with aiming a distribution at "experts" anyway. Every man and his dog is making or intends to make a distribution aimed at newbies, thats fine its good to get fresh blood, but theres no reason to "deliberatly sneer and shun" experts!
How many distributions do aim at the experts.. two or three max..
Debian deserves more recognition (Score:2)
Ease of installation isn't 1% of what it takes to have a good distribution - even if it does make good copy for a clueless journo. I think Debian is the right choice for a Linux based server OS in a commercial environment. It is good to see a server vendor realise the truth of this. Red Hat may be the choice for the home user or Grandma, Debian is a professionals(and hackers) choice.
Re:It shouldn't be sold in stores... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds good for everybody (Score:1)
Ah, here we are...
- INFO-MAC Games 3 Internet Game collection, with more than 300 games!
- PowerMac2: All software is PowerMac native! Contains more than 300 applications!
The first one retailed for 2500 yen (about $US22) and the second for 2800 yen (about $US25). They're both complete crap, of course.
Nope, no sell here (Score:1)
I don't like package systems because they are only valid if you never stray, and there are too many programs out there that offer compile options other than what the packages use. And as soon as you install a tarball, it's outside the package system, and unknown to the package system, and the rot sets in.
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Numerous benefits (Score:1)
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
Re:Nope, no sell here (Score:1)
If you just want to change the compile-time options for a packaged version of the software, apt makes it easy to get the source package. You can easily modify the configure options and rebuild the package yourself.
If you want to compile the latest version of stuff and ignore the package for it entirely, set the install prefix to /usr/local/<package> and use GNU stow to manage it. The only problem with this tactic is that dpkg won't recognize it as installed for dependency purposes (which can be particularly annoying for shared libs). The maintainers are supposedly trying to do something about this.
Re:Nope, no sell here (Score:1)
Re:Packaging is only as good as the maintainers (Score:1)
The binary PCMCIA modules require the specific kernel image that they were built with. I'm pretty sure that this is not a debian-specific problem. If you built your own kernel, you'll need to build your own PCMCIA modules, too. Fortunately, debian makes this relatively easy: just get the pcmcia-source package and after you build your kernel run make-kpkg modules (I think...that's from memory so check the docs under /usr/doc/pcmcia-source).
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
a.out would be very dated. libc5 would be dated. Linux 0.x would be very dated, even Linux 1.0 would be very dated. Perhaps we mean different things with the word "dated"?
There are no guarentees if you use stable either!
There are no warranties, true. But with stable you know the system will not break tomorrow, if it didn't break today. With stable, you also know that if you could install it yesterday, you can install it today, too. With unstable, you have no such knowledge.
Too many people rely on Potato for people to throw in untested system breaking stuff; that would lose someone their developer status I think.
No. I know only one or two cases where people were thrown out of the project, and although I can't discuss the details, I can tell you this was not done because they broke the system (if they ever did that). No. If a system throws one out because of a mistake, you'd lose all the creativity: if you can't afford to make errors, you can't afford to do anything excellently.
We have recently seen an incident where a package wiped out an entire system directory (I forget whether it was /etc or /dev). The developer who made the mistake is still with us.
any really experimental stuff is suposed to go in the experimental branch as I recall.
This is true when the code really is critical and experimental. But it is possible to make critical errors without experimenting.
OT: when is Debian 2.2 coming? (Score:1)
Re:Packaging is only as good as the maintainers (Score:1)
There is one. It's the ncurses-based apt-find utility, and I'd bet there's some kind of X equivalent for folks who need that, too.
For potato:
$ apt-get install console-apt
For slink:
% apt-get install apt-find
Although, to be honest, between apt-cache search and apt-get I don't think there's a gaping need for anything much friendlier. It's very easy to search for something you want with apt-cache, and install it with apt-get.
I do think, however, that something other than dselect should be used for installation. dselect is hideously broken by concept, and is baffling and painful to use in execution.
Re:Nope, no sell here (Score:1)
I agree that this is the case. But the problem with this solution is that if you don't use the package system, you have to manually manage which files are installed and where they all are. 'make install' works great, but it is rare that 'make uninstall' works, and even if it does, it won't remind you that you've put in another package the depends on the one that you're trying to uninstall.
What I've done to get around this situation is to repackage everything that I want to use. Debian makes this relatively easy with the debhelper package. So I create a package that has all of the custom compile time options that I want, but also plays with the rest of the packaging system.
This is important to me because I want to be able to easily remove packages later on, and I don't want to have to keep track of where files are, what depends on this package, etc. I use computers to relieve my need to keep track of mundane stuff like this.
But don't let me stop you from managing your system however you like. Maybe not using a package system doesn't give you the type of headaches that I used to get when I managed my system like that.
Good luck!
Re:It shouldn't be sold in stores... (Score:1)
--Corey
"Distro Wars" heating up (Score:1)
Re:"Distro Wars" heating up (Score:1)
Sounds good for everybody (Score:1)
On a side note, I was in a mainstream computer store the other day and saw in the front of the store boxes for Caldera, SuSE, and Redhat displayed really promenantly. It was good not only to see Linux up front but 3 different distros getting shelf space.
Re:How? (Score:2)
I would suspect that VA Linux, O'Reilly and SGI looked at Corel and Storm and thought, 'hey, let's beef it up but keep it as a conduit for further development'. What I mean by this is that by explicitly advocating Debian **as a branded product in its own right** they avoid the interminable 'Linux-is-fragmenting' arguments.
That being said, tho', I take your point about the slow (too-slow) updating process -- it's actually the only reason why I haven't gone off Red Hat yet.
Partners. (Score:3)
Hotnutz.com [hotnutz.com]
Re:How? (Score:2)
Obviously, you've never had what us old folks call a real job. When you're using Linux at work, you can't upgrade the kernel every five minutes. You upgrade only when you have to.
Slink is many things, but the one thing it is the most to my company is stable. Running Debian/GNU Linux 2.1, kernel 2.0.36 on eight production boxes. They have all been up since I built them (1-6 months). Four of them replaced NT Server boxes. No down time. No rpm conflicts (no rpms at all). Just apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade and away they go...
Fact is...for all the hype surrounding the 2.2 kernels, most production boxes are still using 2.0 kernels. Kernel tinkering is fun (and I do have my exploding Potato box at home), but some of us have to actually get some work done.
Re:You gotta love the new logo... (Score:1)
It shouldn't be sold in stores... (Score:3)
(Camera opens on an overworked housewife, looking at a BSOD.) "Not again! If only I had a way to get rid of those stubborn blue screens!"
Announcer: "Here, try the new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM)!"
(screen sparkles and is replaced by big smiley penguin. Housewife no longer works overworked and has new hair-do) Housewife: "Thank you Mr. Tux!"
Announcer: "The Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM) gets rid of blue screens in a flash! It forks! It blits! Look at those fantastic pixels! It surfs the web! You could even host an ISP with it!
(Camera shows Happy Guy sitting at desk with placard: President, SurfTheWeb Co.) "Thank you Mr. Tux!"
Announcer: All this an hundred more handy-dandy functions, including the patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM), can be yours for only four easy payments of $4.95! It's not sold in any stores! But wait, there's more! Order now and you'll also get "The Complete Guide To Debian"
(camera shows Happy Brother and Sister holding Debian book) Happy Kids: "That's super, Mr. Tux!"
(camera shows Tux) "When a complete stranger walks up to you and says 'Gee, your server smells terrific!', you know you're using the right operating system. I'm not only the president Tux-co, I'm also a user. I liked the product so much, I bought the company. The new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM) has my personal guarantee."
(small print: "not a guarantee")
Announcer: "Just call 1-800-4-DEBIAN to order the new Tuxomatic 2200(TM) with patented Gates-Be-Gone(TM)! Operators are standing buy! Have your Visa or MasterCard ready, or send a check or money order to P.O. Box 34146, Blair, NE 10013. Sorry, no C.O.D.s accepted.
That is not true my friend... (Score:2)
And.. if you werent informed earlier.
Debian has and had (form the start) packaged mozilla, along with every version of Netscape known to women and men (ok being politically correct)
Infact, it is has the most packages comparied to all other distros
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Never circumvent? -- /usr/local. (Score:1)
Debian doesn't touch anything within /usr/local, with the exception of creating some (empty) directories (when I was on the project, two years ago, there was talk about removing this. If you're wondering, I left due to a lack of time, not because of any friction with anybody.. I had computer science honours to do, and then when I hit full time work, I just didn't have the inclination to try to keep up.) I'd be very surprised if Redhat, Caldera, etc., weren't the same.
If you compile a package and tell it to go into /usr, yes, all bets are off. If you unpack a tarball into /usr instead of /usr/local, again, all bets are off. It's simply a case of making sure you note what you install, and where you install it.
Alternatively, if it's a package that Debian builds with compile options other than the ones you want, you can download the source, modify the compile options, and re-build. Hey presto -- instant version of the package built as you want it. Just don't submit a bug report unless you note the modified compile options, as it makes life harder for the maintainer otherwise.
Re:That is not true my friend... (Score:1)
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:2)
Dated? It was released on March, and frozen on November. So it's less than a year old anyhow. I don't think being a year old qualifies Slink as "very dated".
If you're missing Linux 2.2, you can upgrade your slink to it easily. Just remember to look out for trouble [debian.org]. If you want Gnome, there are unofficial updates [gnome.org] (with this caveat [debian.org]). There are also other unofficial updates listed on the Slink release page [debian.org] and the unofficial apt sources list [internatif.org].
Yes you can. But don't do it unless you can stand total system failure. There are no guarantees if you use unstable. That said, I've never personally experienced a total system breakdown due to a bug in unstable, although I've missed a couple with luck.
Re:This is nice but seems oxymoronic (Score:1)
this is not meant to bash RH, but having ISVs not assume that a given user uses RH is of high value to us (the community at large)
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
Demographics (Score:5)
Anyone's whose used it (including myself) can wax lyrical on it's various fantastic attributes including easy-administration and stability but often it seems to go unheard.
The following reasons seems to be the ones I run across the most:
1) Debian isn't RedHAt
I'm afraid for some people there is no hope. Having released themselves from one monopoly they, with busy hands, form a new prison. I guess the Press helps this big time and with many new users coming onboard we see this trend increase.
Debian isn't useful for everyone, if you're totally happy with your current system there's no reason to change it. But to have a closed mind while using a system based on openess seems awful!
2) Debian is out-of-date
Debian is done by volunteers and stresses stabilty so it does tend to move forward less quickly than other distributions in terms of released versions. This makes it very suitable for servers.
For client machines there are ways to stay up to date either using the unstable branch (like tracking any normal development project) or getting updates from those that release the software.
I do have some sympathy with the argument that it can be harder to stay up to date with Debian than RedHat because often people only package with RPM. Luckily Freshmeat helps and if you hang round on the debian mailing list you find out placed for getting stable updates for example www.debian.org/~branden keeps updates for XFree86.
If you do program some software I hope you'll consider releasing it as a
3) Debian is difficult
It's certainly true that Debian requires some effort in both installing it initially and getting used to the package system. The payoff is in a stable system and one which is easy to upgrade. The package system is complex because the integration of a system isn't straightforward - that said apt and the GTK frontend are going a long way towards streamlining as much as possible. It really does take system to the next level allowing you to upgrade distributions without reformatting or using a CD - there seems to be work on recompiling like with FreeBSD which would be fantastic.
4) Debian is political
Often cited as 'Those Free Software Nuts'. This one I think I have to agree with, because Linux is political in the sense of making individual decisions for freedom of exchange and community. In fact RedHat should also be commended on making a totally 'Free' distribution - proof that commitment to this principle can transcend the commercial barrier. In a way Debian is the easiest way for me to support the concepts of Free Software without making much effort as the Debian developers do it all for me - yeah I'm an armchair Free Software supporter! Aside from that I like being part, just by using, of a community program somewhat like the sharing impetus of the original Internet development.
Perhaps the demographics of Linux users are changing but I think Debian has a lot to offer.
bit
ps If you're one of those hard-toiling debian users can I say a big thanks every day of happy pr0n surfing is thanks to you
Re:Debian has NO competition (Score:1)
Containing only software following the DFSG.
No Wordperfect (no good Wordprocessor) No Qt (No KDE, no Good DE(for a long time, at least)), No StarOffice (no Good Office Suite), No Xforms (No LyX, no easy frontend for TeX), no Good Documentation (other distros hav the same as Debian, plus more ala SuSE's manual && support database) and No xv (no shareware) and No Acrobat (no binary only freeware)and No good browser (Netscape)
Some of these are packaged, but its not "Official"
Completeness by a strange definition.
/* aproaching 1.6GB (i386) of compressed binaries (not counting source) */
5 CD's, 650Mb x 5 = 3250Mb.
That's SuSE. CD 6 is source code. Although there are "only" 1300 packages, who needs 20+ text editors in one distro ( and SuSE comes close to that)
/*YOU get to pick and choose what you apps you want running on your system. You have much more control over your system, if you dont like a particular ftp server or dhcp client fine you have a choice, install your favourite. */
Um, what distro forces you to install every daemon, server and client? Install your own.
/* With debian its a hassle free incremental upgrade every day. */
Assuming good, cheap netaccess. At least dselect is gone (or is it?)
/* One thing redhat and mandrake have over debian is a really nice default X-windows layout */
Every other distro bar Slackware offers better ease of installation, configuration and use than Debian. It doesn't seem too hard to do so either.
(Debian would be nice if it weren't so political. But then it wouldn't be Debian
George Russell
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
But otherwise, for me it's been pleasant.
I think it's time to include the Standard Disclaimer:
Do_not_run the unstable distro unless you're comfortable trouble-shooting problems.
Also, there are daily updates, if you're a modem user, I suggest you stay away, unless you like waiting for long downloads....
HowTo: from redhat to debian? (Score:1)
Is there such a thing?
Re:like (Score:2)
Not to slight them, I like SGI, but they've gotta find their niche again.
Hotnutz.com [hotnutz.com]
Re:It shouldn't be sold in stores... (Score:2)
Daniel
Re:HowTo: from redhat to debian? (Score:1)
I wrote a little setp-by-step guide to moving from one dist to another in the Linux/m68k FAQ [linux-m68k.org] (it talks about "Watchtower," a glorified set of tar files, but it really applies to any Linux installation, distro or not).
This is very nice to see (Score:2)
Gee, O'Reilly's actually coming out with an Open Source book (I'm assuming none of the options are checked on the Open Publication License) and they're giving profits from the book/CD package back to Debian. It sounds like a very positive change.
Thanks
Bruce
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
Without reboot... (Score:1)
Maybe not the easiest way and a little old but very cool. Could still be helpful.
Re:Sounds good for everybody (Score:1)
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
Excellent, is Debian making a comeback? (Score:1)
This is also a good thing because it represents formidable competition to RH. Don't get me wrong, I like RH, but feel that competition is important in any setting.
Gotta make these guys work for there money. Trust me it only makes their products better.
-- Moondog
Debian, the good stuff (Score:5)
The place I work at, is now running 90% debian, and would soon be running 100% debian. The neat bit about debian is how it's packaging system holds and it's ultra cool package management tool (aka apt). Which was the very reason why we upgraded to potato on all our servers. Debian does a good job of packaging almost anything that you can think about. And not only that, we can create a system that is fully GPLed with debian, without the hassles and.. "code-less-bugs" associated with commerical software.
One other thing I like about debian is it's platform support. Yes, debian runs on the most platforms (Linux version). Not to mention, debian is the first OS that has support for the GNU Hurd (very cool and very 21st century stuff
And guess what, debian has the best maintainers and you can meet and talk with them through their conferencing rooms (over on OPN) and mailing lists. They are extreemly helpful. Bugs are resolved almost instally, if you find a bug, the very next day it would be fixed (if possible) and everyoen doing an update would have it.
Speaking about updates, debian uses a very advanced package updating/upgrade/management system. Dependences are always checked (infact, you can install a whole debian system by just typing out one line with apt-get).
Debian is also good as a thin client. We have wroking debina client boxes running on 15 mb of hd space, where else the alterantive (rh took around 30 mb - on minimal install).
If you like, download debian cd now! The download process is done through rsync (Not a full big WAD of 640 mb like other distros), debian uses a very advanced tool to check and recheck every bit of your download, infact you can stop and restart download anytime you like, and create the cd spanning several days (not just in one go). This is one feature that would even give ppl with modems the chance to download debian ISO cd over the net. Get it
Oh! Free virtual-beer in #debian over on OPN
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Amen! (Score:1)
Indeed; how do you think we attain those incredible uptimes (372 days on our heavily loaded Samba/atalk fileserver, 2.0.35, Debian 2.0) ;-)
And apt makes upgrades (apart from kernel/libraries) utterly automatable and brainless.
Fact is...for all the hype surrounding the 2.2 kernels, most production boxes are still using 2.0 kernels.Isn't that a fact; it was a struggle getting Linux (let alone GNU tools) into our firm, and must constantly admonish my co-workers who are rarin' to put 2.2.x kernels on our boxes... Leave the newer stuff to your machines at home and put the best face (a tried and throughly tested 2.0 kernel) on Linux @work :)
~ACRe:That is not true my friend... (Score:1)
If you want userfriendly debian based distrubtion. Give Corel Linux a boot when it comes out of beta. That would be the best alternative I could offer for newbies at this moment in time.
Debian has one of the best tech supports btw
Commerical tech support is given by LinuxCare (from day one?).
Thank you.
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Re:How? (Score:1)
I use both potato and slink for server builds, and find them both to be rock-solid (with potato having occasional one-day-long glitches in the apt-get upgrade path, which is the main reason it's still classed as "unstable").
And obviously you put the kernel .deb you want in (or compile one from source) after the initial build: The installer is designed to function on the widest possible range of machines through conservative choices like that one, and it pays off.
Congratulations to VA, O'Reilly, and SGI on a move that's both timely and community-minded.
way to go Debian (Score:1)
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
Its not the package managers fault; its packages with their dependancies not set correctly. These are usally solved within a day. If you have trouble removing or installing because of this, use dpkg to force things a little such as overwritting a duplicated file.
These problems only happen in the unstable branch and once you've fixed a few, its usally straight forward to deal with them when they occur.
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Debian GNU/Linux (Score:1)
Linus wrote Linux, a clone of the unix kernel. Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution. Oh well.
Debian for Newbies (Score:2)
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
There are no guarantees if you use unstable
There are no guarentees if you use stable either! Potato is nearing stable now anyway so its getting less likely to brake and any really experimental stuff is suposed to go in the experimental branch as I recall. Too many people rely on Potato for people to throw in untested system breaking stuff; that would lose someone their developer status I think.
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Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
We need a new moderation flag (Score:1)
like (Score:2)
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Support is paid support (Score:2)
Re:How? (Score:1)
And as for Slink, it's not horrendously outdated. You can get updated gnome packages, and anyone who cares enough about a 2.2 kernel can build one, and even *gasp* read the webpage they put up on making Slink work with 2.2 and whatever issues may exist.
Debian is a great distro, and they REALLY emphasize stability before ship. Heck, even the pre-release Potato works.
Re:Debian, the good stuff (Score:1)
though I have to admit, my LUG is planning a distro variant to have a easy-to-install distro that automatically sets up various services to integrate with our campus (we are a university LUG) and apt is prob gonna be the back bone of getting security fixes out to the various newbies (yes that server will need ot be locked down, we know)
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
potato w/2.0.32... (Score:1)
avila:~ $ uname -a
Linux avila 2.0.32 #4 Sun Dec 21 08:22:49 EST 1997 i586 unknown
And I am keeping up with potato about 3 times a week.
Debian works like a charm, at least since rex...
Re:Sounds good for everybody (Score:1)
Oh yeah, just as a disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Maximum PC Network, Maximum Linux Magazine, or imagine media.
Warren