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Linux Software

Lotus Offers a Peek Into Linux plans 76

Posted by HeUnique from the it-is-coming-to-linux dept.
Sm@rt Resseler has published an article about what Lotus will port to Linux in the near future. Among their products are Domino 5.0.3 with connectivity to Oracle 8.0x and IBM's DB2, Sametime 2.0 (Realtime collaboration software), and Quick Place 2.0 Collaborative Program (scheduled for the first half of 2000). Unfortunately, Lotus is not planning to port either their Notes client or SmartSuite Millenium edition to Linux, which is a sad thing. (/me thinks that a petition could help us to get those client ports.)
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Lotus offers a peak into Linux plans More

Lotus offers a peak into Linux plans

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  • Think about it - Notes is primarily server software. The only thing the client does is display your information for you, and perform archives if you so desire. Everything else is a basic web browser function. I haven't seen it in Notes yet, but Exchange has an option to use a web browser as a client. It's ugly and slow (hey, it's Microsoft!), but it isn't any worse than a comparable Notes client for Unix. If Notes R5 can do this, it makes the whole idea of a groupware client obsolete, even for Windows users.
  • It is very fast has a clean look and has all the needed email functions

    From this statement alone I know that you're not talking about the Notes Client. They may have written a very nice email client, but that is not anywhere near a full Notes Client.

    The original poster said that Lotus had a java implementation of the Notes Client. This is total bunk. Domino developers can achieve many of the same effects in a web page by using the built-in Java classes for Domino. This helps applications that were written for the Notes Client to be more useful to web-only users, but it is not the same as a Notes Client.

    It may be better than having a bloated Notes Client, it may be worse, but there is no "magic bullet" Java implementation of the Notes Client which can run on all Unixes.
  • These companies must be able to justify purchasing or investing in anything. A CIO has to make sure Linux is a good choice for his or her operations. Some of the parameters taken into account would be applicability towards business goals, system stability, ease of use and maintainence, and the ability to port any aspects of a legacy system. (I'm sure there are ALOT more points than this.)

    Anyways yeah building a superior groupware collaboration system from the ground up would be nice but CIOs and others don't see it that way. It would cost their companies alot of money in terms of platform migration, maintainence, training, and any downtime that results from this move. Plus now all their obsolete systems would simply be a waste of money rather than productive investments.

    Uh oh it must be those MIS classes getting to me...

    I hate bloatware as much as the next person but people must wake up to reality!

    Today's English Lesson: Oxymorons

  • This is fairly odd. I was under the impression that there would be a native version of the notes client that would run under linux. Around here at my work, we have some ibm/hp reps, and while perhaps they arn't really in the know more than anyone else, they were saying that it was pretty likely we would see one come out in next year or so. I believe one of them mentioned 5.0, though I don't remember precisely. Anyway, I suppose time will tell...
  • There is a very good reason why Lotus have only committed to releasing the Domino Server on Linux.

    That is because the Clients are still unstable on platforms Iris are familiar with. (An understatement if I have ever heard one)

    As someone who has evaluated Domino R5 from the test builds (Well before the betas came out) I can honestly say the clients have all been very dodgy.

    The server however has had a LOT of time dedicated to it to ensure it is reliable. As the server is supposed to be virtually an ISP in a box it can be run in organisations without end users ever seeing a Notes Client.

    I am sure that as the R5 client matures Lotus will supply it for Linux. Add to that the fact that IBM will supply Netfinity servers with Linux installed and are fully supporting the Linux/Open source initiative. Lotus will have no option but to follow suit.
  • Lotus Notes is groupware and very popular in corporate america. Like my company (a very large fortune 500 that will remain unamed). A few of my coworkers use linux as a desktop machine and go through this huge convoluted work-around to run Notes (something along the line of using wabi to run the 16 bit version of Notes) which makes notes even more sluggish than it mormally is.

    I love linux and I would love to use it as a desktop, but until i can use my corporate mandated groupware package (notes) i will not do the switch.

    maybe you can take this as an example of why it would be desirable for the the linux community to have a port of Lotus Notes.
  • Hardly... the Designer and Administrator client are CLOSELY tied to the main notes client. They ARE separate programs... but it seems to start them as separate threads off the main client.

    The reason I say this is that, in the Administrator, when you register users, you CANNOT use the Designer or Notes client. The three are integrally linked, and if one is busy, they all are.
  • only when there's MS Office on linux I'm afraid. It's not that there's anything wrong with WP-it's very good technology. But it's because of that pesky doc format and the training costs to switch everyone to a new platform
  • I've done some work on Dia (it's a REALLY cool program). Actually I think the coolest thing is it loads in like 1 second on my 166 Pentium compared to about 10 seconds for Visio to come up.
    Anyway, what's missing? network cloud is one, but what else? If you can explain what you need or draw it, it's a fairly simple matter to implement new objects in Dia. I created a whole class of Sybase objects for the diagrams I have to do at work, it was fairly simple.
    So anyway, write 'em up send them to me and I will make them for you.
  • Yeah but they aren't very cooperative...
  • I do not know what all of this Diminoes Stuff is. I really don't understand what this article is talking about. A little help please?
  • I recall a Lotus commercail. At the end the screen said, "An IBM Company". So I think, YES

  • I was excited when it came on my new laptop, because I would get the opportunity to try a Windows word processor other than Word.

    What a surprise. WordPro was the worst experience with a word processor I've had in a long time. Even getting the darned thing to select only the text I wanted was a chore. I was so disgusted after composing a nine page article that I uninstalled the whole thing.

    Don't look for Lotus to bring good apps to Linux. For commercial efforts, stick with WordPerfect. For open source, KOffice [kde.org] looks very promising.

  • Yea, I've noticed many large corporations are doing this same thing: releasing server stuff for Linux, (and getting the resulting media attention) but quietly omiting announcements about client app support. IBM is doing the same thing with it's DB2 stuff, you can get the server for free but all of their enterprise configuration tools are (and are going to stay) windows? It's not just that they don't think that there is interest in using Linux as a client/workstation, there has to be some internal motavation...

  • peak? (Score:1)

    by scrytch ( 9198 )
    A peek perhaps? I mean if you're going to plagarize a headline almost verbatim, you could at least spell it right to. I tried to look for the headline-style pun, but could only draw conclusions about sloppy editing.
  • I'm suprised that they do not want to port the client, given that they have an AIX version of the client (or at least they did - maybe they don't have an R5 version).
    But I will say this: the AIX version was fairly bletcherous.
  • I'll be the first to point out that I typoed the word "too". This is an example of proofreading. Thank you.
  • I'm pessimistic on the idea that Lotus will port the Notes Client or Smartsuite to Linux; especially since they dumped client support for Unixen in Domino R5... And the idea that a petiton might change there minds is (sadly) unlikely - Lotus isn't really good at listening to that kind of input from users...

    Or even from their business partners, like the one I work for; Lotus has a partner forum, which is available to Lotus Certified Business Partner companies. Various requests have been made at times for improvements in certain Notes features (like printing, or report generation); many of the these request meet very little response or support from Lotus.

    As far as the server Linux port goes, and speaking from several years of familiarity with Notes/Domino, I'm not really that interested. Lotus' track record for Unix versions hasn't been great; the AIX and Solaris version have been buggy, slow, or they require a _very_ specific set of OS patches/configuration to run efficiently... By analogy, that would mean that the Linux version may run on the 2.2.7 kernel (for example), but not, say, 2.2.9 . (And don't dare try putting it on a development kernal)




  • I think I agree.

    Lotus Notes (under Windows) is one of the less user and newbie user friendly programs I've ever seen.

    It is depressing to use.

    I wish it would vanish into the bitbucket.

    But yet I have to use it every day.

    *sigh*

    If they fixed their user interface, I'm certain the product would have some merit, but as it is now; no way. What I think is scary, is that this is supposedly the best product of its kind...
  • As far as the server Linux port goes, and speaking from several years of familiarity with Notes/Domino, I'm not
    really that interested. Lotus' track record for Unix versions hasn't been great; the AIX and Solaris version have
    been buggy, slow, or they require a _very_ specific set of OS patches/configuration to run efficiently... By analogy,
    that would mean that the Linux version may run on the 2.2.7 kernel (for example), but not, say, 2.2.9 . (And don't
    dare try putting it on a development kernal)

    Well if that's the case they shouldn't even waste their time with a server port...
  • Posted by 2B||!2B:

    It probably doesn't make any business sense for them to sell a Linux version. As far as I know, there's a Java version of Notes client which will handle any version of Linux/Unix/etc., anyway.

    Doing a special version of Notes for each would be unlikely to ever be profitable (there would be a GNU equivalent within a month, anyway). You would have to sell a whole lot of copies to justify a special version, which won't ever happen with any of these specialty OS's. The Windows-tweaked version is probably more for psychological reasons than practical reasons; nobody gets excited about a Java version, but a Windows-specific version is easy to justify to management. Who knows... the Java version might be nearly as good as a Linux version, anyway. It's just a matter of a decent Java runtime engine. I've used Java code before that was literally _faster_ than the previous C(++) version once it was run through a proper compiler.
  • Its sad to see people actulay wanting ports of otherwise worthless Apps over to a good OS.

    Brainpower should win out over bloatpower. Lotus office products are by and far the dog doodoo on the bottom of the office apps shoes. Notes is the Mekong Delta (VietName era) of groupware.

    Rather we should petition GOOD CODE BUILDERS to make office apps that are more in working with a good OS, not settle for the same old some old

    (I can say this with some sure mindedness because I use thee products on a dialy basis, as well as other "office apps". It would be sad to see *nix simply port this stuff over like lap dogs in a commercial sense)
  • There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with Notes (I know; I do it), but you need a client to do it. In Notes 4.x, the "designer" is an add-on to the client. In 5, IIRC, it has been decoupled, but you'd still need a port of the designer at least in order to avoid Windows.

    Personally, I wish they'd port the client too, so I could get rid of my Windows partition.
    --

  • A Linux client port of ANYTHING should more or less equate into a port for any/all Unixen. I bet if they solicited Sun, Sun would be more than willing to make a good Unix client worth their while. (ala installshield).
  • Here's a reasonably decent summary of the Notes design philosophy, and how it differs from other, more standard technologies:

    www.notesdesign.com [notesdesign.com]
    --

  • i'm lost ... per websters dictionary, peek (which is what is in the head line) is:

    "peek n : throw a glance at; take a brief look"

    how is this wrong?
    -
  • Posted by Jeff Martin:

    It is strange that they will not be making the Smartsuite for Linux.
    Perhaps if we all ask nicely they might reconsider this stance.
  • until recently Linux was mainly known for its server capabilities - even most Linux supporters/users said that Linux wasn't yet ready for the desktop. Now we have KDE and GNOME and Linux is ready for the desktop, but what I fear is that the Linux community will become too demanding and scare of those companies that would have eventually ported the client. I would rather see lots of customers requesting Linux versions of client software than a petition.

  • WordPro (Score:1)

    by jimbo ( 1370 )
    A shame they are not porting WordPro, it is the best wordprocessor I have ever used. I love the way almost everything from text formatting to style sheet usage/configuration is available in a right click menu popup box. Almost all functionality are very easy to reach with few clicks/keys. Also font, etc selections does not take up so much space as in e.g. Word.

    In contrast is Microsof~1 Word where one have to go through many menu/dialog levels just to reach simple things.
  • ACK! Have you used Notis Lotes, I mean Lotis Notes. The idea of porting that to Java SCARES me! I delt with enough Java apps compiled by the most proper of compilers and the complex ones are slow, very slow.
    Ugh, the very thought of porting Notes to Java sent chills down my back
  • rofl

    So, does Micros~1 contact you for their 'online documentation' efforts *ahem* in their newer softwares?
  • Exactly what I was going to post. We don't WANT Lotus products on Linux if they're going to be anything like the windows versions. You can bet that those IT clowns misguided enough to choose Notes wouldn't have the imagination to try Linux anyway.
    Would Notes be a good thing if it was written right? Only maybe, IMHO. What does it really do that email, news and an address book can't? Hey! Don't we have all those already?
  • Lotus has shown little interest in the Notes client on anything but Windows. The Mac version was saved - I don't know how - but the line coming from Lotus is that users should connect via a web interface.

    I think a petition for a Linux port of the Notes client would fall on deaf ears...

    ...but it wouldn't hurt to try.
  • As far as I know, there's a Java version of Notes client which will handle any version of Linux/Unix/etc., anyway.

    This is total bunk. There has never been a Java version the Notes client, and I have never heard any plans for one either. Personally, I don't think Java could effectively handle bloatware like the Notes client.

    Notes / Domino R5 does have Java classes which supplement the Notes formula language and LotusScript, but the only way for a Unix machine to interract with a Domino application is through a web interface.

  • Not total bunk, just mostly bunk. R5 has built-in support for java applets that have the functionality of Notes views or folders. There's also a java rich text editor. (Almost all of the other features can translate pretty much into HTML and JavaScript.)

    They've also beefed up the Java-based Administrator program so that you can do more admining from a web browser.
    --

  • SmartSuite for Linux (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Living in Boston I hear a lot of horror stories from current and ex Lotus employees about how introverted Lotus is and how the company isn't structured in a way that rewards change or new ideas. This announcement doesn't mean that they'll never port SmartSuite to Linux, but I'll bet if they ever do port it it'll be too late.

  • LotusNotes client on Linux (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I use the Win95 LotusNotes client on Linux using WINE and UnixODBC at my office and everything is stable (especially with the latest build). As for the speed, I can't really tell what it would be on a fast computer, but on my Pentium 100, it runs at the same speed as when I was running the computer on Windows.

    We use Notes for our internal e-mail, static information database and incidents database.


    "Em".
  • What does it really do that email, news and an address book can't? Hey! Don't we have all those already?

    You'll see a lot of this nonsense anytime Notes or Domino is mentioned. If you don't understand something, don't comment.

    What does Linux do that NT can't? Don't we have filesharing, remote acccess, email and web serving from our pals at Microsoft?

    Notes / Domino is groupware. There's no groupware available for Linux. Let's make sure we send a clear message to Lotus that we don't want their product. Linux is better with more gaps in software. The fewer companies that port to this platform, the purer the OS will be, and the purer we will be.

    POE EOP OPE

    BTW, never let them have your essence.
  • "Would Notes be a good thing if it was written right?"
    It's written fairly well considering the scale of the product. And unlike some other companies, Lotus is commiteed to putting out fixes as quickly as possibly - with maintenance updates and quaterly maintenance releases to ensure that bugs hang around for as little as possible - and all that from a product that runs on multiple platforms.
    "What does it really do that email, news and an address book can't? Hey! Don't we have all those already?"
    Groupware. Which is a little more than email, news and an address book.
    • It allows workflow, so that documents you create can be routed to the correct people for approval.
    • It allows indexing of all those documents, so that you can find the one you wanted by a quick and easy search.
    • It allows security on the documents created, which is very important in a business environment.
    • And probably most importantly, it allows all of these features to be replicated around multiple servers, in a fast and efficient manner.
    I think that Domino using Linux as a server platform is probably a good thing, but it remains to be seen how many companies will take up the option - after all, they can also run Domino on AIX, Solaris, HP-UX, Windows NT (Intel and Alpha), OS/2, OS/390 and OS/400. So we in the Domino world already have a good choice of platforms anyway.
  • Posted by hrearden:

    I dont know if this is feasible, as the Notes client might be needed to view one's designs. But since the Linux community is a bunch of coders, I think you might appeal to IBM this way.

    The Designer is *supposedly* separated from the Notes Client in R5 (I say supposedly because they may share alot of code, I just dont know).
  • The Release 5 user interface is much much better, although it's still Notesey. Unfortunately, most Notes shops upgrade at the speed of molasses, so you might be waiting a while.

    Not that this is really an excuse, but back in the dark ages, the Notes GUI first shipped on OS/2 1.x, so many of it's interface conventions are non-standard because they pre-date virtually every standard (an example is that right double-click = close window). Furthermore, many Notes applications just have uglyness designed in. Notes developers (including Lotus) tend to do things like put Purple text on a yellow background and use the least readable font they can find. But, I guess if they had any design sense, they'd be doing web stuff.
    --
  • So stop moaning! Linux is a great stable server platform (at the very least) - we run Notes servers on NT currently, and they have to be rebooted every couple of weeks... (familiar story on /.) - Iris/Lotus have obviously noticed this and are providing a server platform for NT's nearest "competitor". This is a GOOD thing. In what way could it possibly be bad??? This is what we want isn't it? More commercial interest?

    As far as client support goes... you can access most things thru a web browser, or mail via IMAP, SMTP and LDAP...

    I'm sure as soon as GNU/Linux becomes the dominant desktop OS, there will be ports a plenty!

  • If anybody cares, the Windows version of Notes 4.6 seems to work quite well in the newest version of WINE. It seems to freeze up once in a great while when you try to do something fancy with it, but otherwise it runs perfectly.
  • Yeah, companies are only looking at Linux as a server solution, for now...
    Linux isn't really ready to be deployed onto the desktop of a major corporation.
    In time workstations sporting Linux will become suitable alternatives...

    ------------------------------------------
    Reveal your Source, Unleash the Power. (tm)

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