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SuSE Businesses

SuSE Sales up Significantly 118

Posted by CmdrTaco from the hey-look-at-us dept.
Lost in the Corporate Maze writes "SUSE rides the Linux Cash Cow!. I guess someone asked SUSE to "Show me the money!". What's the breakdown between US and World sales? Where is this revenue coming from? Enquring minds want to know. " We mentioned this before, but its interesting seeing to appear in a major pub. Amusing step in the rivalry between the major distributions. This is getting fun, but its also further proof that Linux is getting bigger.
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SuSE Sales up Significantly More

SuSE Sales up Significantly

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  • That would be the correct term for the behaviour of RedHat. They don't seem to realize yet that they have actually competitors and that they must rally, if they want to survive.
  • Didn't know about SO5 and glibc2.1.

    However, I'm confused on how Enlightentment DR0.15 worked for you. I had to upgrade the libjpeg and some other libs (I think libungif) as well. I was trying 15.5, but maybe you tried an earlier one?

    Yes, WindowMaker came with 6.1, but I couldn't find any dock apps. Now, RH6.0 only came with the most common ones (wmmon, wmtime, wmitime,etc.) but at least they had the most common ones.

    KDE, I don't know (or care) about. I do agree that they shouldn't be non-standard, but I haven't personally had any problems 'cause I don't use it. That was another problem with SuSE 6.1; it installed the base KDE stuff even though I unselected it from installation. Why?

    I agree that RH5.2 had some buggy software (gnome-linuxconf for a big one), but some of the design issues in SuSE were just as bad. How do you set up a PPP connection with DHCP, for example? I can't find any way to do that without writing my own PAP or CHAP script. I certainly could do that, but why? I is automated in netcfg, so why bother?

    Recent GNOME was distributed with 6.1, but when you install it, none of the default $PATH variables have /opt/gnome/bin in them (again, why, when it is so simple in include?) and other non-GNOME applications conflicted. In particular, another demo application called "panel" (When run, it just displayed an X Window which said "Panel test." and had to be killed) was run instead of the GNOME Panel. The paranoid in me says that an oversight that big (putting some demo application in the $PATH and not superceding it with /opt/gnome/bin) is so silly that it must be sabotage! I guess this wouldn't bug anyone who doesn't run GNOME, but then again, KDE problems are only isolated to KDE users....

    Well, I didn't want this to turn into some sort of distro flame war, but I just happen to not have problems with RH6.0, while I had HUGE problems with SuSE6.1. Sounds like you had somewhat the opposite view. Oh, well. I guess we're both happy with what we have now....
  • The only thing I've had to go out and download are Communicator since SuSE doesn't include the one with 128 bit encryption and kernel patches.

    The only problem with SuSE that I've found is that they have their own version of the kernel with extra drivers and stuff. This caused some problem for me when I tried to apply a kernel patch. I've since started installing the "standard" linux kernel sources from their CD so I can apply patches regularly when they are released.
  • For that price I might buy a couple for friends. Even though the manual isn't totally translated properly, it's still cool, and SuSE deserves the money. =)
  • Why, you ask, is SuSE getting all kinds of play? Well, friends, last week I went to CompUSA (yeah, I know...) to look for the new RedHat 6.0 distrib. I have 5.2, so why not stay with what I know as a relative newbie, right?

    What should greet my eyes: RH6.0 is ONLY $79.99. Huh? I didn't pay that much for Windows NT f'cryin' out loud!

    And what's next to that $79 RH6.0 package on the shelf? SuSE 6.1 for $29.95. Next stoopid question?

    I don't know what is the RH strategy here, but they lost a potentially loyal buyer of 5.0 and 5.2. I just didn't want to start all over again with a different distribution. Well, I did, and it was a relatively simple transition. New ppp & TCP issues resolved easily. Lotz of new toys, etc.
    And now I don't even need no steenkin' distribution!! ;-}
  • Here is the license of yast: click me [apfel.de]

    Yes, you cannot redistribute the entire cd set.

    But no, once you remove yast and derived works, you can redistribute it.

    I've been doing admin work for SuSE systems since years and have never used yast. You really don't need it, if you aren't a clueless newbie.
  • I am not trying to tell someone else what they should or should not do. It's just that I will always prefer a free software package over a non-free one. I go approximately along the lines of the DFSG (not GPL free, but a superset of that) to make this decision, and it is a personal ethical decision because I feel that free software does more to advance the field I work in than non-free software.

    In particular, I will not purchase a distribution which consists of freely donated software with one program that is not freely donated but instead is licensed in such a way as to discourage free distribution of the composite product. You are free to do as you choose and I support your right to agree to whatever licensing terms you enjoy. You can be Bill Gates' towel boy for 12 months after opening Win2k shrink wrap, for all I care. (see Dilbert archives..)
  • The FSSTD also states that all configuration information will be placed under /etc. I submit that the XF86Config file is a configuration file and does not belong in the off-the-wall place that SuSE sticks it (I don't recall where exactly they stuck it, but at least in 5.3 it wasn't in /etc). I submit that the linkes in /etc/rc.d on a Red Hat system are configuration information. The actual scripts can live in /sbin/rc.init or wherever they want to, but my system knows what stuff to start up at boot time by looking at those links. The FSSTD says that I should be able to restore my entire configuration by restoring /etc. But with SuSE, I have to restore /sbin/rc.d also.

    Not that Red Hat is totally free of such idiocy. For example, print configuration information is stored in little files in /var/spool/lp/ (where is the name of the printer), which also breaks that rule. And name server files are stored in /var/named, which again breaks that rule. SuSE's blatant disregard of the FSSTD is not why I don't use SuSE, it's more a case of personal distaste for the licensing terms on YaST.

    -- Eric
  • The 'yast' config utility is not GNU free or any kind of free. You can't copy it or any portion of its source code without written permission. Granted, the system does work without yast and can be redistributed as such. But requiring the removal of the GUI setup tool for redistribution is discouraging free distribution.

    SuSE makes their money because of the other contributors to GNU, Linux and the many many other apps they sell -- these people encouraged free distribution of their Linux-related works. SuSE does not encourage free distribution of their Linux related work (the distribution). However, SuSE does make contributions to XFree86 (XFree) and Linux (GPL) which we can all benefit from. They are not "bad" but their product is not free in the DFSG sense.

    All that said, I apologize again for calling SuSE leeches, which is clearly not true.

    (puts on dunce cap)
  • I meant to say proprietary SOFTWARE company, and I really should have said 'non-free software company'. My bad. Nothing wrong with turning a profit. But the action of creating a non-free distribution of free software is asymmetrical (they take free software from the community and return it as a non-free conglomeration) which displeases me. It need not displease you and probably will not, espescially if you don't mind shrink wrap agreements.

    I found out today that SuSE did make significant contributions to XFree and the kernel which offset that asymmetry to some extent, but do not really make up for it. It does have the effect of making me look like an idiot for calling them leeches, though..

  • from what I understand (correct me please if I am wrong) is that the cultural context of linux in the US and the rest of the world is quite different. it seems that the *free* and *non-free* concerns are lessor in countries other than our own. I have heard that the concerns in other countries than our own are more based on technical merit of the distro rather than whether they comply with *free* or *non-free* status.

    If this is the case, maybe we should harken back to basic anthropology classes to remember which lense we use to view linux phenomena outside of our own (may I say *narrow* viewpoint)

  • I submit that the XF86Config file is a configuration file and does not belong in the off-the-wall place that SuSE sticks it (I don't recall where exactly they stuck it, but at least in 5.3 it wasn't in /etc).

    What are you talking about? I've had 5.2,5.3,6.0, and 6.1 and I've always found XF86Config in /etc.

    chris
  • 1) I'm a big SuSE fan, have been for 2-3 years.
    B) There will always be downloading for the newest version of something, noteably the kernel.
    II) I have a pet chameleon (not really, but that'd be neat).

    ------------------------------------------
    Reveal your Source, Unleash the Power. (tm)
  • Many thanks to everyone that posted all the download sites for SuSE. I have obviously gone BLIND from the excitement that I didn't see all those sites. Thanks again. :)
  • I haven't used Redhat for more than a year now since switching to SuSE. SuSE offers very good value for money. In the UK official SuSE retails for less than half the price of official Redhat. It comes with more CDs containing much more software than Redhat....saves a lot of time on downloading. Also I quite like using YAST to administer linux boxes....more so since it's non-graphical.
  • I have installed both RedHat 5.2 and Debian 2.1, and, while neither of them was particularly difficult for me, I found the Debian install to be incredibly tedious. It took me over an hour just to go through the package selection process. Granted, I would scream bloody murder if the installer took away the ability to select individual packages, but I much prefer RedHat's heirarchical package selection system. If I have disk space, and I know what I want to do with the system, I can just select a group of packages by what they do, and then go in and remove the stupid little programs that I'll never use.

    Also, in case you couldn't tell from the previous statement, I'm a fan of trees (real and electronic), and of heirarchical organizations withing my computer. Subdirectories are a good thing. I much prefer RedHat's organization of having all the init stuff in /etc/rc.d/ rather than just in /etc. And having the rc scripts have intelligent names makes things much easier when you're glancing at something and want to be able to pull out info quickly. It also makes things easier on a newbie. For example, it only took me a couple minutes to find where the system init script was. The fact that it had sysinit in its filename made it that much easier.

    As far as package management after the install, I could give a flying rat's a$$. I haven't used RPM since I installed linux (and that was a first time install for me). I have downloaded a few gigs (yes, GB) of sources in .tar.gz since I installed Linux in January, though.
  • It's fascinating to look at the variance in free Unix use across different demographic borders. Some of the real data agree with the commonly held myths, and other data disprove these. One thing that surprised me (although no one else who heard it) was that BSD runs neck-and-neck in Japan with Linux, allegedly accounting for 50% of the free Unix use. It will be interesting to see whether TurboLinux will change that.
  • Nice Box. 450 pg manual. 5cd's. 60days installation support.

    I can never just walk on by.
  • I think it's carried on all Sunsite mirrors. In the UK it's located here [ic.ac.uk]. The UK magazine PC Plus [pcplus.co.uk] has also previously distributed it on it's cover CD. PC Plus has been running a string of linux hands-on articles since the middle of last year mainly based on the SuSE distribution.

  • I asked and received. Glory of glories, I got pleasant, rational answers to my original question.

    It's sincerely appreciated.

  • I don't have a problem with SuSE attempting to competitively position themselves by trying to lower the value of RedHat's IPO. Ehh. It's a dog eat dog world out there.

    What I *do* have a problem with is that they are essentially a proprietary company. They distribute a non-free Linux distribution, and stop just short of entirely refusing to acknowledge GNU and the GPL (not a mention of GNU on the package). More than 90 percent of what they are selling on that CD was contributed for free by the community. But they don't have the decency to contribute their utilities back, such as YAST.

    SuSE is not helping Linux by trying to turn it proprietary. RedHat, on the other hand, isn't perfect either. But RH contributes their improvements and so is a member of the community instead of a leech -- like SuSE.
  • ----------------------------------------
    3. Dissemination
    It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have
    been reproduced without authorisation for payment without the prior
    written consent of SuSE GmbH or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the
    YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or
    in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require
    the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.

    All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a
    whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended
    sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or
    works derived thereof available free of charge together with SuSE
    Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on
    the software are observed.
    ----------------------------------------

    The major difference to GPL that I see is that you can't sell anything derived from YAST. In that sense it is %100 free (as in beer) and free with restrictions (as in speech), as well as having the same 'infection' property which GPL does (including requiring that the source be available). Ummm, are we nitpicking?

    chris
  • In fact, SuSE is one of the major contributors of the Linux kernel and the XFree86 project (also mentioned yesterday in a /. article about SuSE Labs).

    The often-mentioned mixing of free and non-free software is IMHO mainly to ease installation (make it more transparent for every user).

    And, seriously, would you want YaST for any other distro? I'm happy with Debian apt-get (and vim) and will never use something like YaST.

    Sebastian
  • ...to what I said above.

    This licence means you can make as many copies as you want to give away, just not to sell it. That also means a company can buy one copy and make a bunch of copies to install everywhere.

    As far as I can see, you could literally make a distro identical to SuSe except for YAST, sell it for gobs of money (well, you could try :), and then offer YAST 'for free' on an FTP site.

    chris

  • SuSE vs. Debian (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I had SuSE 5.0 (i think) on my computer once.
    These were my first steps with linux but i was frustrated i didn't manage to ./configure Windowmaker. All the Include Files were in different directorys than they were suspected.

    Yast messed up most configuration files...

    In school we had installed a proxy using Linux.
    We had to wait two weeks for a new version of squid we really needed urgently... and it was broken. We had to compile it ourselves.

    Then a friend of mine (the one who showed me linux) gave me Debian and i was really happy:

    Although the WindowMaker was quite old, the sources I downloaded ./configured without any parameters. Two days later the Debian Package was available.

    And the best thing i know is APT.
    I read in freshmeat about a software package which sounded interesting.
    "apt-get install softwaretitle"
    and it was running on my box.
    This was just a great.

    If you don't want to use bleeding-edge, you can choose the Stable tree, for guys who like to play around with the newest things there's a seperate unstable tree. (updates usually appear within 2 days in unstable)

    "apt-get update"
    "apt-get upgrade"

    and your system is up-to-date

    So i just love Debian whereas i didn't like SuSE very much.
  • From your comment you make it sound as if SuSE Linux doesn't use RPMs. They do use RPM files for all of their packages and I rather like the way YaST acts as a front-end to RPM allowing me to easily install updates.
  • Okay I went a bit off the deep end with this. I still don't like SuSE 'cause they distribute a non-free distribution. But I should not have called them a leech and I apologize for that error.

    Even though SuSE doesn't make all of their utilities free, they have (as the above poster pointed out) made significant hardware support contributions to XFree86 and the kernel. I suppose I should have checked that out first before being so harsh, so I'm sorry. (But I'm still not going to pay them for a non-free software package)
  • here [tu-harburg.de] I used rpms from this site
    esp. I installed GNOME (then new) rpms on suse5 from here. Quite useful site to remember. -a
  • I've been running SuSE since 5.1. I bought each distrib (5.1, 5.3) directly through SuSE. I skipped 6.0 and bought 6.1 from Best Buy for $29.95 I believe. Great buy, beats the hell out of purchasing RH 6 for $79.95. ;) Since I saved all of that money, I went and bought WordPerfect 8 for Linux from Best Buy also. (I don't mind spending money for non-MS products.;)

    Now, I'd really be content if I could purchase Civ Call to Power and other Linux games from the rack.
  • I have to disagree with your statement. What do you mena by a non-free Linux distribution? Everything is free except their own value added tools such as YaST and SaX. Those two tools are some of the reasons they are getting bigger. Maybe someday they will put license the code under the GPL, which BTW, its printed on page 407 of the manual.

    As far as they not contributing to the community, you might not be aware that SuSE has developed quite a few of the card specific X servers distributed with XFree.

    You talk about them not contributing code, what about Red Hat, are the Printtool, LinuxConf or the sndconfig licensed under the GPL?

    This my friend is what distinguishes distributions from each other, giving us a choice.

    Frunkster
  • AFAIK, Quincy is an iguana
  • Sure you can resell SuSE if you take out the non-free components, but SuSE without YaST isn't quite SuSE anymore, is it?
    --
  • Oh, that's right.
    Darn it. How about if I say lizards are better than birds? =)

  • This is not meant to start a flame war, but what's the appeal of SuSe over, say, RedHat or Debian?

  • So here's one thing I never got straight . . . is it "Seuss" or "Sousa?"

    (.au file with thick German accent: "Hello, my name ist Marc Torres und I pronounce 'SuSE' as . . .")
  • By the same token, other 'alternative' OSes were big in Europe but bombed in the US: Atari and above all Amiga (let's hope that they don't set a precedent for Linux).

    The Amiga hardly bombed in the US. Everyone who could afford one pretty much went out and bought one. Everyone who couldn't afford one got an ST or stuck with their C64.

    The Ami may never have achieved, in the US, the same phenomenal success it had in Europe, but it was by nobody's measure a bomb. The ST, now that was a bomb -- well, maybe a dud. =)
  • What's the appeal ? Well, having just bought a copy of Suse 6.1 and installed it I can safely say that it's quite a packed distro. I haven't had to download a single thing yet to get it config'ed the way I want it to ( heh, except the newest kernel ). It's only slightly different from redhat actually with some of the rc files in diff places and other config files in diff places. But it's got RPM .. which makes things a bit easier if you ever have problems getting things to compile and dont feel like debugging others' code, which i certainly dont have the time to do.

    So basically it's a complete distro... extremely up to date.
    HTH,
    joliveir @ hartford dot ee dee you
  • It's the one question I have about SuSE. I have yet to find a download site for their distribution. I'd like to try it. Thanks

  • Why SuSe's Linux version... (Score:3)

    by yabHuj ( 10782 ) on Wednesday July 07, 1999 @06:10AM (#1815364) Homepage
    SuSe's Linux always came with smooth, simple yet powerful installation routines - and good documentation (even back in 199(4?)).

    The distributions I tried (well, some years ago) were well suited for beginners, but not for the more advanced user, with "hacker" documentation and optional modules missing there and where (or in ... unusuable places) - ever configured sendmail.cf (nearly) from scratch (NO example file available)?

    SuSe was the first distribution easily available on CD in Germany - and the first company offering professional support since Linux 0.99.x. See, my first linux CD was a SuSe with kernel 1.0.9

    In case someone asks: now I use (and prefer) Debian, but I intend to try OpenBSD soon.

  • Interesting. I have lived in Germany now for almost six years, and not long after I arrived I heard about Linux for the first time (1994) via Usenet. It wasn't too long after that SuSE started pushing SuSE Linux, which took root pretty fast. Every company I've worked for or with (six of 'em) have used SuSE Linux in some capacity; my current company uses it for all servers, both intra- and Internet, for ourselves and our clients (we do web design, sometimes also setting up the server as well).

    I didn't hear about Red Hat until much later. Odd. Even then I basically heard of it through my interest in MkLinux DR2.

    It's also interesting that Linux took root so fast in Germany. Lots of Debian developers, for example, are German (or at least European). By the same token, other 'alternative' OSes were big in Europe but bombed in the US: Atari and above all Amiga (let's hope that they don't set a precedent for Linux).

    So in many ways it's not a surprise to see that SuSE is doing so well, in contrast to Red Hat or Caldera--they've been bigger longer. But as the article states, SuSE's and Red Hat's growth curves are about the same--just Red Hat is a step behind. I wish 'em both luck...

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • The Amiga hardly bombed in the US.[...]The Ami may never have achieved, in the US, the same phenomenal success it had in Europe, but it was by nobody's measure a bomb.

    Ah, well. I guess you could take that view, but the sad part is that the Amiga is barely hanging on for life. Sad, really--I remember a friend's 500 with surround sound, 3D and so on, while I was clunking with a Mac IIcx (circa 1991). Hardly to be compared... :-/

    Just goes to show that you should never trust Commodore with anything. At least not for very long. :P

  • Simple. Like this:

    zoo -zah

    At least that's the German pronunciation. I'm sure you can get away with calling it "Susie", since that's what the name means in German anyway (Suse is a nickname for "Susanne").

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • The right transcription should look like
    "Zoo-za" ("zoo" like the animal exhibition, "a" like in "bad", but short).

    Greetings from Germany!
  • Page 1 Heading: "Show Me The Money"
    Page 2 Heading: "R-E-S-P-E-C-T"

    Holy moly, can you get any more WORN OUT than that? Someone fax these guys some originality, please. :)

    I propose a new law be passed giving citizens the right to legally smack silly anyone who says, "show me the money."

  • Simple. Pronounce it like this:

    zoo- zah

    At least that's how it's done in German. You can also say "Susie", if you want, since "Suse" is just a German nickname for "Susanne" (that's the literal translation of the name).

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • Okay Debian is "free" but you need to be a programmer just to install the thing.

    I beg to differ. Debian is only marginally more complex to install than, say, Red Hat. It's just wildly more complex to maintain. Part of that comes from the very strong dependancy model the package system is using. Another part of it comes from the fact that the Debian folks seem to have modified the hell out of every piece of software they package, and that the packages themselves are more fragile -- they break reasonably often with even simple apt-get operations.

    [Note that I'm talking about potato here, slink isn't quite so painful, as it is quite stable now.]

    Using Debian, I do miss being able to rpm --rebuild a package, and have that just plain work. Unfortunately dpkg-buildpackage seems to have a terrifyingly high failure rate in potato. (Or am I the only one who can't rebuild apache or pam?)

    I don't debate your point about freeness, though. I like that it takes only a glance to see if a package is non-free with Debian.
  • ftp://ftp.varesearch.com/ pub/mirrors/suse/SuSE-Linux/6.0/ [varesearch.com]
    North American mirror (VA Research, SuSE 6.0)

    ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/6.1/ [suse.com]
    SuSE's FTP server in Germany (SuSE 6.1)

    Otherwise look at http://www.suse.de/e/ftp.html [www.suse.de] for mirrors, etc.

    Enjoy. :-)

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • [I]t's only purpose was to lower the value of Red Hat's IPO, and hurt Red Hat financially.

    So what? Think about it. Most people outside of the Linux world (and outside of Europe) have pretty much only heard of Red Hat. SuSE isn't too well known outside of Europe, where it already has a strong presence. If anything, I think it's pretty clever on their part--steal some thunder from RH. I don't think that they are trying to deliberately harm RH's IPO, just trying to make it known that there are viable (semi-)commercial alternatives.

    In a way, it's pretty ironic (no, not in the Alanis Morrisette sense) to hear people moaning about RH getting slammed by SuSE. It wasn't too long ago that everyone slammed RH for being the "Microsoft of Linux"...

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • I'm not sure how the sales pan out demographically, but here are the reasons I suspect individuals are (and should be) big SusSE buyers.
    • excellent manual
    • 5 CD's - no more downloading
    • Supports RPM's
    • Cheap
    • Includes w/ phone support
    • YaST.
  • Without getting into some big debate about which distribution is better, or which company is larger, I think I've found part of the answer to why sales are up: SuSE is cutting big deals with software distributors.

    I went to Fry's a couple of days ago, and when I went looking to see if they had BeOS 4.5 upgrades (they didn't have any Be at all =( ) I was surprised to find SuSE 6.1 on sale for $30. I thought I'd gottten a good deal at $40 a month ago. I'm sure the price has dropped considerably at other places, as well. With its shelf-neighbor Red Hat 6.0 selling for $80 at the same time, it's no wonder that more people are turning to SuSE...
  • YaST is very cool. It lacks some functionality that I would personally like to see, and is a bit klunky at times - but it whips Linuxconf by a lot.

    And yes, the source _IS_ included on the CDROM. You can hack at it to your heart's content, and you can even freely distribute it - AS LONG AS it is NOT FOR PROFIT. You cannot make money off of their setup/install tool.

    It seems to me that they are literally one step ahead of redhat - with the new distro being pretty much based off it and all.

  • It's fascinating to look at the variance in free Unix use across different demographic borders.

    I'd say it's fascinating to look at variance in OS use, period. Look at Macs, for example: they have something like 30%-40% of the market in Switzerland still, but are clinging to their position in Germany and Austria (something like 2%-3% of the markets there). Go figure.

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • (everyone needs to be called a jack ass every now and then)

    I didn't mean that they hate free software, but the thing is, they have a CD full of almost all freely copyable software, but I can't copy the CD legally because SuSE has made it non-free. They also rarely mention GNU/GPL/FSF in their advertising literature, although I was unaware the GNU Manifesto was printed in their manual.

    All that aside, they are not leeches and have done some great work to advance XFree86 development which I should have looked into before disrespecting the company.

    -=Ivan
  • The Linux FSSTD defines that no executable may be placed under /etc. init scripts are obviously executables (in the sense chmod +x) and therefore SuSE placed them in /sbin/init.d.

    IMHO this doesn't make such a great difference. I admin several SysV-ish systems where the scripts are in /etc/init.d (Solaris, Debian Linux), /etc/rc.d/init.d (RedHat Linux), or /sbin/init.d (SuSE Linux). No problems with that.
  • I haven't used SuSE quite a while (using Debian now.) but IIRC you can choose when installing the sources wheter you want the modified or original kernel sources.

    --
  • but I can't copy the CD legally because SuSE has made it non-free

    Oh, you can. You can copy it a thousand times if you want it. AFAIK the only thing you must not do is take YaST and make you own commercial linux distro. But I might be wrong.

    --
  • well, as undesirable as their propietary behavior is, we dont want red hat to be seen as the 'standard' linux as the market emerges, and Suse demonstarting to the public that there are other companies who distrubute lots of linux is good. also, Suse releasing their figures like this could actually help redhat by showing that the whole market for linux is growing quickly.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Does anyone remember how some people were worried about RedHat becoming the hegemonic Linux distributor? Personally, I prefer my tyrants to be American, so I need all of you /.ers to go buy RedHat so that SuSE doesn't take over and force us all to use software with support for the euro mark!

    Seriously, the size of SuSE is good news for everybody. Should RedHat, in contradiction of sanity, start doing those things people were worried about, businesses have another large company to call for a Linux distro & hand-holding. If SuSE is "in their heart of hearts a services" company, I'd expect them to do very well in the (corporate) support aspect of things, which is where the money is. Having big corporations use Windows is why Windows is still around, so it's rather important for Linux World Domination (oddly enough, not a registerd trademark of Linus Torvalds).

    Off-Topic: Microsoft's applications are what's keeping Windows on the desktop. There's no doubt in my mind that companies would prefer a free, reliable, easier-to-remotely-admininster o/s like Linux *if* it ran Microsoft Office. Combine this with WINE, and I see trouble for the model that Microsoft depends on for its revenue. Solution? Stop wasting time and money on Win2000/NT 5 and go ahead and finish WINE. According to my reading of the WINE license, they can fork the project and close-source the remainder of WINE. This is a classic embrace & extend manuever, and has three benefits for MS. First, it allows them to continue to sell at least a chunk of the O/S (i.e. DirectX 6/7, other API implementations); second, it saves them the enourmous R&D costs of developing a real O/S (i.e. Linux, FreeBSD, or Solaris) and immediately gains them all the benefits thereof; third, it maintains the APIs that Office depends on in the face of the Linux threat, and hence protects their hegemony. It's the same calculation they made porting Office to Macintosh, but even easier: Linux has a larger installed base (and/or more publicitly), and you get the added bonuses of selling something in addition to Office *and* "subverting" a competitor.

    -_Quinn
    Slackware 4.0: because the penguin is never sleeping.
  • Then what's with the mix of capital and small letters? Since nouns are capitalized in german, I always assumed it was some sort of abbreviation.

    bEcoz itz reel kewl d00d. :-)

    Seriously, it's an abbreviation. Stands for "Gesellschaft für Software- und Systementwicklung mbH", which means "Company for Software and Systems Developemt, Inc." or something like that.

    cya

    Ye Olde Webdesigner [surf.to]

  • Re:Why SuSe's Linux version... (Score:3)

    by Eric Green ( 627 ) on Wednesday July 07, 1999 @06:41AM (#1815399) Homepage
    SuSE is now quite a bit better than back then. sendmail.cf in SuSE, for example, is now well documented and easier to hack than Red Hat's configuration (it was VERY easy to add an alias to myself so that everything coming out of my home machine had a return address of "e_l_green@hotmail.com", for example, even though I was logged in as "eric@england.local.net"). I still don't run SuSE on a regular basis, but that's because of their, err, "unique" take on the FSSTD (putting configuration files some place other than under /etc) and because of YaST being non-free software (under the Open Source Definition).
    Regarding OpenBSD -- very nice. Very clean. Very "transparent", meaning that even the install is just a shell script that can be interrupted and examined if you want to see what's going on or do things by hand. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of software for it pre-packaged or in 'ports', and driver support is not great. After fiddling around trying to get apsfilter to run so that I could get decent printouts, I caved and installed FreeBSD.
    FreeBSD looks good so far, but it appears they have "Linux Symdrome" -- i.e., putting "user-friendly" front-ends on the install and config tool that are not "transparent" in nature (everything is acting on a text file, but you have to do some digging around to figure out WHICH text file -- shades of Red Hat's 'printtool'!). Still, it has a ton of 'ports', lots of 'packages', and drivers for all of my hardware (though I had to swap out the ES1371-based sound card I had in my machine for an old AWE-64 Value that was in my Windows box). My only real problem is getting a real office suite working on it. So far I've had no luck getting Applix to work (even though I used 'brandelf' to brand all its binaries as Linux). Next I'll try WordPerfect, which will at least import all of my old Applix documents, but I use Applix Graphics to develop the headers on my web pages and stuff (very easy, lots of clip-art, point'n'click), and that'd be hard to replace.

    -E

  • Can you resell it?

    Actually, you can't. The license of Yast, a core component of SuSE has this clause:

    Distribution of the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SuSE GmbH.

    --
  • Ok, it's a little different from most other distribs.

    There are a number of ways to install. Here's what I do:

    - In the disks directory, download eide01 and dd it or rawrite it to a floppy
    - Insert disk and reboot
    - Select my net card (load modules)
    - start the FTP installation (I use IP 195.176.255.9, directory /mirror/SuSE/suse/i386/6.1/suse. The server is in Switzerland, I believe and is the fastest I have found from my location, YMMV. a list of mirrors are available on www.suse.com)
    - Install only the basic setup (select 'load configuration' and pick the last one)
    - Start install
    - When it's done I can reboot and use it while Yast downloads everything else I want to install (the distribution is 5 CDs)

    Of course, I'd only recommend this one if you have cable, xDSL, etc.

    You can also do it from an existing DOS partition (which I don't usually have) by downloading certain directories and disksets (ala Slack). The SuSE manual describes this in detail, you'll find the .dvi file somewhere in the ftp site, I think in a directory called books.

    Of course you can get the distribution (I'm thinking of buying the official one because I've been using it for a while, I'm quite impressed, and it comes with a ~500 page manual, IIRC. It was also originally based on Slack (which I haven't completely dumped)).

    The coolest thing, IMO is the update. I had a SuSE 6.0 server and wanted to upgrade it to 6.1. Insert either 6.0 or 6.1 eide01 disk, select 'Update system' and it updates everything you have on your system that has changed from FTP, reboot, done.

    I also like their support DB, component DB, massive amount of documentation, and the instant PHP/MySQL functionality (if you wish).

    Have fun!
  • ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/6.1/suse/ has the latest SUSE 6.1 tree.
  • While I agree with you that there is an awful lot of software included in SuSE 6.1 (which I purchased), some points of frustration still set in.

    * glibc 2.0
    * enlightenment DR0.14
    * Non-standard rpm names - not only cause problems finding the RPMs I wanted, but also in fulfilling dependancies, so when there were other packages I wanted to install I couldn't.

    The thing is, Linux software moves on very quickly, and I have yet to find SuSE specific RPMs for most things that I use (GNOME, Enlightenment, Window Maker apps, etc.). Yes, I therefore turn to the source RPMS, but then they may be set up with RedHat directory structures in mind (which IMHO is also incorrect; they should be distro independant) and not work properly anyways. If I can't flexibly install new software on the system, then the system doesn't work for me.

    So, after 3 weeks of frustration, I net installed RedHat 6.0, and have been happy ever since. Great install, great apps (ALL up to date) and after about 4 hours of setup (vs. 3 weeks and still never solving any of the issues) I have networking, ppp, printing and X all set up PERFECTLY out-of-the-box (or net, for that matter). AND, it didn't cost me a thin dime.

    SO, please don't flame me, but I have to say that RH is still my favorite.
  • ftp.suse.org



    this is also a FreeBSD mirror :)
  • ...but you need to remove these `unfree' packages first. Some years ago I saw this detailed in a README (iirc it was about burning CDs yourself).

  • Btw, FSSTD stands for FileSystem STanDard. You can find the document on Metalab [unc.edu].
  • Redhat talks about risks of their going public. They don't mention any competitor, but everything else. Also, I've heard (ok,ok, hearsay) that Mr. Young (Redhat) used the words "...our little competitors..." during an event. Redhat felt a little TOO secure and important.
    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/ [tu-chemnitz.de]
  • Let's have a discussion about why chameleons are better than penguins...

    1) chameleons have big tongues
    2) chameleons can't get their feathers ruffled
    3) chameleons are masters of energy conservation, and, just like programmers, most people think they are lazy
    4) chameleons are better engineered to adapt to surroundings
    5) Quincy! (www.foxtrot.com - Jason's pet)
    x) penguins are for bird-brains
  • I agree with that! What we need is one more big distro (mandrake or turbolinux maybe?) to gain a strong foothold in the industry. That way comanies will make sure their products are polished before they go gold (like windows should be).
  • Even you have indicated that there are versions of Debian which are too hard to install compared to other distributions.

    Read a little more closely. I said that Debian is harder to maintain.

    Maybe the newest version is better but up to now it has been hard to install for many of us.

    potato (the "new version," still in unstable development) is no harder to install than slink (Debian 2.1, what you get if you grab a Debian CD). I was griping about the problems with the current development version.

    Grab a copy of slink, and you'll find it's not much more difficult to install than, say, Red Hat. The fact that the installation procedure drops you into dselect is a little intimidating for the first-time user, but is really no more difficult than the package-selector during Red Hat's installtion. (In fact, I find it easier: the Red Hat selector has a very tedious, though colorful, interface that makes it difficult to trim away crud from the default installation.)

    It's a true statement that Debian's installation procedure is "less pretty" than Red Hat's, and that it takes about twice as long because of package silliness, but it's not more difficult.

    Personally, I rather like the BeOS installer: there are almost no options and basically one button to push. It's convenient if not powerful at all.

    And I think we can all agree that any of the above are easier than an NT install!
  • When you're discussing pronunciation, it's significantly more portable to speakers all over the world to use the standard International Phonetic Alphabet [perl.com]. Although there is no perfect transcription of those sigils into ASCII, our own Evan Kirshenbaum makes a valiant and reasonably accepted attempt to do so in the documents from the link above. There's even a picture of the real characters.

    Using that system, the pronunciation I'm most familiar with as spoken by anglophones would be /'su z@/, although folks from Germany of course say something that seems more to the English ear to be /'zu z@/ or even /'zu zE/ instead.

  • Ah, well. I guess you could take that view, but the sad part is that the Amiga is barely hanging on for life.

    By many accounts, it's dead. It certainly isn't breathing, although the heart may beat on.

    I remember a friend's 500 with surround sound, 3D and so on...

    I still have my A500 in service. Mostly I play games with it, as after 10 years I finally have a PC with equivalent capabilities. =)

    I'd probably even use it more often if the Enter key weren't so busted -- something's wrong with the keyboard membrane connector just above the arrows and I have to whack on it a few times before some of the keys work. It's getting increasingly difficult to find a working mouse or joystick, too.

    And maybe at some point I'll get PLIP working to the gateway router...

    Just goes to show that you should never trust Commodore with anything.

    Amen.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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