Network Computing on Linux 39
MECC wrote in
to send us an evaluation of Linux vs. NT that appears over at
network computing.
The review is a little more evenly considering showing
that the OSs are much closer in performance than a certain
"other" test, and that either can be made to outperform the
other (surprise surprise). Some numbers, some samba benchmarks,
and more. A good looking piece.
Better URL to refer to (Score:1)
Hope this helps make the article flow a bit better.
Re:The Staff Issue (Score:1)
We will evaluate a Linux box for a client inquiries website with Solid Database and Crystal Reports hooked into a P4 database for canned and ad-hoc reporting.
This article is noted for it's lack of hype or hysteria and it's balanced viewpoint.
Staffing for any future Linux installations will not be a problem, since out of the 90+ programmers and admin people here, 23 run Linux at home anyway and are vying for the opportunity to manage the installation(s). There are many younger people out there who could do a credible job, if given the opportunity to do so. They are already plugged into a network of users they can draw on and seem to prefer contact on that level anyway.
I agree that, at present anyway, Linux will not scale to big iron mainframe territory soon, but that is not a drawback. NT is unstable, requires frequent re-boots, and does not scale that well either, but their improvement cycle times are in the 2 year range and Linux is more like 2 months. I prefer to have a true believer working on a fix, rather than a sub-contracted drone in Austin, TX.
Re:The Staff Issue (Score:5)
Linux is PERFECT for Universities. It's free, modifiable and it actually WORKS. I just completed a course in High Speed Computer Networks where we had to modify the Linux kernel TCP portion to implement a Credit/NACK protocol. The professor stated at the beginning of the semester that he choose Linux because the source is available and there is no problems with licensing. Every student that came out of this class, knew networking AND Linux. This is my third class that I was able to use Linux as my OS.
If this is the case in most Universities, then in (at most) four more years, there is going to be a large number of Linux administrators out there
Re:Linux ready for Prime Time? (Score:1)
Re:Linux ready for Prime Time? (Score:2)
Sybase ASE
Informix-SE
Oracle 8i
Solid
InterBase
etc...
What commercial database do you want that isn't available?
Availability of database software really isn't that much of a problem anymore.
Re:QT is better than GTK crap (Score:1)
Re:DB Duh Dude (Score:1)
Cheers
Alastair
"GNU protected package" (Score:2)
Acme Linux
Protected by GNU
Re:Agreed! (Score:1)
Not sure what you mean here. I taught myself to do this, and taught other NT admins as well. Admittedly, I had many years of Netware, mainframe, and before that VMS and Unix experience to draw on. But it's not that hard. Anyone who cares to dig up the documentation can do it. That would include any MCSE's who want to move "beyond the book".
sPh
Re:DB Duh Dude (Score:1)
Paradox? If that's the Borland/Inprise DB to which you refer, I wasn't aware it was available for Linux... heck, it's hardly available for Windows anymore...
Cheers
Alastair
Re:DB Duh Dude (Score:1)
Re:Linux vs. NT (Score:1)
Re:Admin is the key to the web (Score:1)
Micros~1 understood the developers like nobody else. Linux needs to focus on administrators, not so much end users (IMHO) or _even_ developers.
I think it's possible to strongly argue that one of the reasons Win32 is dominant at the moment is precisely _because_ Microsoft has focused on its developers. By giving them powerful tools, "lowering the bar" with regard to quickly creating professional applications (e.g. VB), and generally "looking after" their developers, Microsoft has managed to win the battle for developer mindshare. Indeed, Microsoft don't hesistate to admit that keeping developers on board is a key part of their strategy [news.com].
The key is in administration of networks and web networks.
I agree that simple, accessible (i.e. graphical, as much as I hate to admit it
Looking back it's obvious how Microsoft managed to gain such a substantial foothold in the medium- to low-end server market: they owned the desktop. If Linux is to compete similarly (I'm not necessarily saying it _should_, but let's say it does), then offering compelling alternatives to Win32 applications on the desktop needs to be a priority. Already substantial impressive work has been done, but there is a ways to go yet...
So I think it is possible to make a strong argument that obtaining and nurturing developer mindshare is just as important as obtaining and nurturing administrator mindshare.
Cheers
Alastair
Re:DB Duh Dude (Score:1)
Paradox ended up with Corel, last I heard they've released a '98/'99 version; it was even well received in the DB review recently in C't
Re:The Staff Issue (Score:3)
I'm not saying this is the best scenario or criticizing either. I'm just commenting here. The system does seem to work better than M$'s alternative.
Linux not that hard for NT-admins (Score:5)
A poll conducted by Sunbelt (that I think claims to be the largest online community for NT-users) suggest that this is not the case.
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/0399_ 2000.htm [sunbelt-software.com]
In this poll something like 67% of the NT-admins was already running linux!
And in the next 12 months they were one average planning to add more linux than NT-servers!
And this poll was not
This make it seem unlikely that most NT-admins will have any major problems learning linux.
My own experience is also that this is the case. Most of the NT-admins were I work have already tried linux and if they were put the same amount of work they put into learning NT, into learning linux they would hardly have any problems.
This poll also suggest that
Where to begin in my complements ?? (Score:1)
But here's one original thought: I appreciate how Network Computing has not made this study "conclusive," that the facts are still open for debate. Sure, it's all PR/Pro-speak, but I like it.
I also like how they have solicited feedback for "what it would take to make Linux present in your office."
Re:The Staff Issue (Score:1)
Re:Backup system (Score:1)
Another example of how Linux can integrate with existing Netware/NT services.
Did it ever occur to you... (Score:1)
IMHO, you shouldn't immediately point to one component of a system like that until you have done some other research. You say Qt is smoother, but smoother than what? GTK with the RH 6.0 theme? Did you test Qt with the same theme(s) (and if you don't think the theme matters, you're living in a fantasy world)? Also, is Qt similar to GTK in terms of features (i mean things like widget communication)? Could the fault lie not in GTK but in the coding of GNOME or even the panel itself? Basically, your post seems to say that because the gnome panel flickers with this theme, and qt apps don't flicker so much, GTK sucks. You are comparing a single application (GNOME panel) that runs only in one configuration (GTK) to a general category that runs in a different configuration (Qt). If you're going to say something is unsatisfactory, it would probably be a little more convincing if you elaborated at least a little instead of providing an example that almost certainly depends on your configuration and is not anywhere near being a fair comparison.
Re:Not Agreed! (Score:2)
You HAVE to be competant to be a Unix admin, but you DON'T have to be very competant to be an NT admin.
Pretty fair review (Score:3)
There testing also seamed more real world, I want to see Gigabit damn it, I use it,
It's a much better solution then 4 100Mbit cards.
Admining is complicated I have not seen any admin. worth two bits, that did not use
command line, NT included, Unless you are admining 5 boxes under a rock in Mongolia.
Admin. issues are admin. issues are admin. issues.
Most of the time people don't really talk about, what it takes to be a real administrator; I spend my
day dealing with software, infrastructure, servers, purchasing, short, mid and long term planning,
If you where truly a "NT admin. dimwit" you will be unable to do the other jobs effectively and
do a miss service to your company in general.
Why do people think that a under trained admin. would benefit a company? I don't really know.
It happens continuously, I fear it, it can bring down a whole department.
As a side note; let me tell you about my last experience hiring someone, I interview 25 people,
most were clue less, all had experience with NT. When I chose; all of the other related Managers
disagreed with my choice the thought he would be expensive, he would be bored, on and on.
The point was he had a Degree in Computer science, they thought that some how that was
unnecessary, that his job (and mine) did not need a four year degree.
They were wrong, and asked in hindsight they have agreed they where wrong. It was if they were
crows with there eyes filled with the shinny microsoft bangle, there ears ringing 'nevermore'
'nevermore will I have to get and pay for truly qualified staff.'
Backup system (Score:2)
The Staff Issue (Score:5)
Network Computing seems to be horribly worried about getting support staff. Two quick points:
Could we find a way to put the "qualified staff" misconception to bed? Or are there are large numbers of NT administrators ready for hire out there who can keep NT networks humming along without constant downtime, and a dire shortage of people who can answer a few questions on a menu and then type "make"?
Admin is the key to the web (Score:2)
Web programming has to focus on administration, see the Enterprise Java Bean spec and its HEAVY focus on web-admin.
Micros~1 understood the developers like nobody else. Linux needs to focus on administrators, not so much end users (IMHO) or _even_ developers. The key is in administration of networks and web networks. Mark my words.
The first one to raise this profession to the level it needs to be at is going to hit jackpot.
regards
marc
DB support... (Score:1)
IBM announce monday morning that they will be shipping linux on their high end DB's. I submited the story, look for it here on Slashdot (as I now can't remember where I read it... I think on silicon valley news. ?) So... Your disappointment in Linux DB support is now (or soon will be) moot.
Fear the penguin!
ctimes2
Agreed! (Score:3)
With UNIX, however (thus Linux), you *have* to be good at what you do, or you simply won't be able to function.
There ends up being a line of minimum education for both NT and Linux, and that line is much lower for NT than for Linux. Think of this as a good (fewer clueless Linux admins than NT admins) or a bad (more expensive/fewer Linux admins than NT admins) thing, however you need to.
Network Computing likes Linux (Score:1)
Database support -- not bad for a 32-bit machine (Score:1)
Informix is supposed to be nice too, and their support staff is enthusiastic. However, I have heard reports from a friend of mine (a DBA at Cornell, where they are rolling out Informix for payroll on AIX) that it is less than 100% robust.
So on my current project, I have learned to like Oracle and apparently the feeling is mutual
Works fine for my employer. Actually, that's a lie -- it works vastly better than the previous NT/Sybase "solution". It was $2000, though, for 5 users.
I guess you get what you pay for when it comes to RDBMSes. Of course, you could fix Postgres if you don't want to pay. You have the source, yes?
If you manage to get Postgres running to your satisfaction you can take advantage of 64-bit platforms that Linux runs on, which pretty much evens the playing field. That's a big if, though.
Regardless, I think people are being overly dramatic about the database situation on Linux.
Re:Agreed! (Score:2)
You HAVE the education and experience to figure things like this out. I hear stories about how the NT admin for such-and-such company can't fix some e-mail problem, or how so-and-so company is desperately wanting to move to roaming profiles but their NT admin can't figure it out.
I've never met a truly competant NT admin, period.
I've met NT kiddies that know how to set up the NT server to share files, do domain logins, *maybe* even set up personal user directories and the like, but beyond that those NT admins might as well be asked to write a 3D modelling app for UNIX. They just don't know where to begin.
A lot of companies just don't know how to judge an NT person's qualifications (or Unix for that matter) so they end up getting stuck with someone that doesn't know as much as they probably should. It's easy to pretend like you know a lot about NT. It's a bit harder to pretend like you know a lot about Unix (except if you're an IRC script kiddie -- then all the other IRC script kiddies think you're God. Of course, the rest of us know better).