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Linux Software

LinuxExpo Report 120

So we're here, we're intact, and we've got our tickets to see Star Wars tonight. With the important business out of the way, I can finally give my first report from LinuxExpo- brace yourself for my quick summary.

It's a pretty interesting show. As tends to always be the case, I can't really escape the show floor and actually see anybody speak, but there is enough going on here to scream about.

We're sandwiched in the back between the Free Software Foundation and Debian. Its a nice wall of geekdom- the suits seem to be staying near the front where all the big companies with actual budgets and furniture are located.

All the big usual suspects are here (Red Hat, Linux Hardware/VA Systems, Compaq, IBM) plus accross from us is a company called Patmos (they have parallel systems and very comfy looking leather couches scattered throughout their booth). There are several vendors with massive clustering and parallel systems- practical ones for web serving and stuff instead of silly things like predicting the end of the world or weather.

Nobody is giving away really steller stuff (except the ALS boys with their excellent OS Wars T-Shirts).

The most entertaining news is the homeless Turbo Linux models (can someone send a URL with pictures?). They hired models to distribute promotional materials at the show- but they got thrown off the floor for doing it outside of allowed spaces. So they sent the models to the front of the local hotels. All those attractive women without a home- its enough to cause total insanity at a conference with so many geeks.

Less amusing, but still entertaining is the rumor of Legal Action between Linux Care and Red Hat. The former is distributing a parody of the 3com 'Simply Palm' ads with photo of a woman in a bra covering her backside with a Red Hat software box. The slogan reads "Simply Supported". Apparently the Red Hat lawyers sent cease and desist orders to the Linux Care lawyers. I'm waiting for a scan of the picture and the letter- that hopefully will be up soon.

Ah well, thanks for to the LinuxExpo folks for giving us a chunk of real estate to sit on at the floor. More as it happens.

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LinuxExpo Report

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    While I agree that some major events happened in the Linux world in '98, we're not yet half way through '99, so don't discount it yet.

    If anything, we can expect more commercial game support on Linux to go along with lots of industry backing from the big companies. New and cooler hardware to run Linux on (ie. Voodoo3 based 3D cards, dual Celeron systems, etc) for the hacker.

    Mozilla should once again be a hot topic when Netscape finally releases a 5.0 Beta in a couple of months. NetWinder still seems to be a flop, although they garnered a lot of attention at LinuxWorld in San Jose in March.

    Maybe now that Linux has infiltrated the industry and people can actually admit to using it professionally, all of the exciting stuff is gone? I doubt it, though.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    I came to slashdot almost a year ago. I didn't know who Anonymous Coward was. I just thought he was some guy who liked to say mean things about people and and spent his ENTIRE day clicking refresh so he could get first post. Then there was a poll asking if we should ban him! Sure, he was annoying, but he said some nice things some times. Of course, I soon after realized he was not a single super-human.

    I think that AC posting should be kept. It used to be REALLY annoying, but with the new moderation system in place, it's great! Anonymous postings that are stupid I never see and ones that are spectacular I do see. And, as it should be, anonymous postings are given slightly less initial weight.
  • Anonymous moderator here again with a request... !!don't slam all moderators just because one is bad!!


    • Your original post has been re-moderated back up at least a point, not because you complained, but because it was on-topic, didn't insult anyone, etc. (I hadn't even seen this post yet) BTW, I'd have caught it quicker, but y'know, gotta earn a living while I'm here at work.
    • I have e-mailed the URL for your post to Rob, who is dead serious about striking bad moderators from the list.
    • I can't speak for anyone else, but remember, I'm just an "unpaid volunteer." Still, I try to do a good job whenever I'm on the site and have been given points to moderate with.
    Okay, I'll stop now. I've got my clue, life, coke, and a smile.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:44AM (#1885251)
    Bite your tongue, ma'am!

    Not ten stories down you can see news that Linux will have a journalling filesystem and commercial distribution from SGI, the originator of that filesystem. You can also see a statement from Novell announcing the availability of NDS on Linux within the year. We've heard that sophisticated 3d software will be coming to Linux, courtesy (again) SGI, Precision Insight, 3dfx, and Daryll Strauss, and we've seen a new set of distribtution releases based on stable 2.2 kernels with a rapidly maturing GNOME/Enlightenment GUI complement to KDE. SAP announced R3 for Linux. And it's only May; what were you waiting for, MSLinux ?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 1999 @12:44PM (#1885252)
    From the home office in Helsinki, Finland:
    Top 3 Least Popular Linux Expo Giveaway Items

    3. Bumper Sticker: "Mindcraft -- The best benchmark results money can buy."

    2. Novelty playing card decks -- "The Heroes of Free Software Undressed".

    1. Jock straps with "LinuxCare -- we support your software" on the front.

    (Sorry I didn't have time to think of 10) :)

    Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs. Log in as AC when you're being silly.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:52AM (#1885253)
    Key word: rumour of legal action. This is unconfirmed. Don't get so uptight until we see some confirmation. Red Hat has historically been a good company, and I won't believe something like this until there's some evidence.

    I think Red Hat certainly has a right to ask LinuxCare to stop doing this. I think LinuxCare has a responsibility to then stop. I don't think either side should seek legal action, though.
  • Where can you download iso images of bsd's? (I know for certain I haven't found any for OpenBSD.) I have seen several places with RH images (and even more with debian images), as well as the posting of the actual command(s) used to generate the images for debian. Would you share the url for any of the bsd os's cd images?
  • Posted by NJViking:

    Well linux support all the formats windows does..

    Um.. no it doesn't. There is no Quicktime 3/4/Sorenson support for Linux. Xanim sure as heck doesn't have it, neither does mtv.

    -= NJV =-

    "A better burden can no man bear
    on the way than his mother wit:
    and no worse provision can he carry with him
    than too deep a draught of ale."
    The Havamal [pitt.edu]

  • ...what else matters?

    Oh yeah, that XFS thingy. Wow, wouldn't that be cool on a Beowulf? ;-) (actually, yes, if you built a SAN like the Bulk Data Server on it)

    Whut else... um, Time Digital is now running a series on Linux... Mozilla is actually GOING SOMEWHERE... and people are saying "Hurd" again.
    Intel investing in VA... Compaq supporting Linux on Alpha... Sun supporting Linux on Sparc64... SGI selling boxes with Linux on them... IBM selling boxes with Linux on them... HP selling Linux support... TUCOWS putting up Linux crap (?)...

    What new media formats are there for Windows? I haven't booted into it (except in vmware, to test some client-side SSL stuff in IE4) since 1998 so forgive my asking ;-)...

  • >I'm afraid that they're going to be reduced to
    >same scratching-to-stay-alive heap as Apple.

    Oh yeah, apple has no money, no assets, and no cutomers... nobody is buying their products, they'll be gone tomorrow!

    Compamies of that size just don't disappear, I bet most people though DEC would be around longer, SGI seems to have an identity crisis... Apple is doing pretty darn good...
  • D.) A Copy of RedHat 6.0 (I'd rather not pay $80)

    Problem solved [cheapbytes.com]

  • Hip hip hooray!

    I went right from DOS 5 to Linux.

  • It's only May. Give the year a chance.
  • by Joe Mucchiello ( 1030 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:55AM (#1885262) Homepage
    Red Hat is a trademark that they have to protect. They must raise a stink if someone uses it without their permission or lose the trademark. Since their name is the ONLY thing they own, they have to be serious about it. The law, unfortunately, has not room for witty. And from the sounds of them, these ads do not parody.
  • One word for you "moderators"...Littleton......

    FYI, I'm a moderator (very few points ;) ) and I've only used the privledge once to bounce a -1 comment that I thought was on topic back up again.
    I'm of the opinion that conversations have improved greatly since moderation has started.
    If you're afraid you're going to miss something, do what I do, set your threshhold to -1 and look at everything.

  • From the Moderator Guidelines: Anonymity is important. If you go around telling people that you have moderator access, I'll remove your access. It is essential to the system that moderators don't operate for ego inflation or fame or to promote their ideaology. We must be fair or the system just won't work. Nuff said.
    Sorry... should have said I don't intend to moderate no more... ;)
  • ..has Red Hat lost it's sense of humor? Geez, grow up.
  • ...is there anywhere that posts ISO-9660 format image files of RH, as they do for *BSD distros?
  • I was some time ago, but I almost certain (99% +/-1) that it was linked somewhere from the FreeBSD site - maybe even ftp.freebsd.org

    So, where have you seen the RH images?

  • Why does it seem like 1998 was Linux's banner year and 1999 is the year everyone switched back to Win? In 1998 we got The Gimp, KDE, and Gnome, Enlightenment, Kernel 2.2, the NetWinder, Mozilla, Mnemonic, really groundbreaking ventures. In 1999, what have we gotten to parallel The Gimp? The NetWinder was a flop. Mozilla was a flop. Mnemonic vaporized. We got a few games but those quickly wore off. Meanwhile all these new multimedia formats came out only for Windows.
  • This is like watching a train wreck in slow-motion.
    I noticed
  • Most moderators have only a few moderator points with which to moderate. If you had set your threshold to -1 you would have seen quite a few more of those duplicates that *were* moderated. Have patience.
  • No one would have taken Red Hat seriously until money was thrown at it.

    How so? The only people who care about how much money is being thrown at a company are the suits. So we should be grateful to the suits for throwing money at Red Hat to satisfy the suits?

    We are geeks. We use Linux because it is the best tool for the job. Not because someone threw money at it.

  • by Hrunting ( 2191 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @01:24PM (#1885272) Homepage
    On the one side are the commercial giants, the companies that will save Linux from the depths of obscurity, companies like IBM, Oracle, and even (gasp) Redhat. On the other are the ardent purists, the folks who deem freeware to be always free, who cringe at the thought of people paying for their beloved work and who fight the idea that money should be made off others' efforts.

    If 1998 was the year the Linux took the world by storm, 1999 will be the year that the corporation takes Linux by storm. It's already begun to happen and people are already complaining. The big names are up front. Small upstarts are using hot models and naked pictures to sell product. In the back sit the timeless veterans: Slashdot, Debian, FSF. Who will win?

    If people stop worrying about who is making money off Linux, everyone will win. Companies are working within the established framework to do what they need to do: make money. Linux programmers are still hacking away, developing strong systems and code that works. This code is still free. Does it hurt you to know that Redhat is moving forward with plans of world domination? No, it helps you, because they're putting money into the development of Linux, as are IBM and Oracle. Why? Because those companies will have better systems and products if the platform they're working on is more stable, more open, and more extendable. Companies don't want to commercialize Linux, they want to commercialize products. Companies love Linux because Linux deals with standards vs. Microsoft which deals in proprietary ideas.

    If Redhat sues Linux Care, it's business. If IBM pays more for the front seats, it's business. Linux is a business, not a product. Let the companies make their money. Let the developers develop the foundation. Seeing IBM and Oracle front this Expo is a great sign for Linux's viability in the marketplace. Seeing Redhat flex its corporate muscle is a great sign for Linux's strength in the business world.

    Keep hacking. Keep programming. Enjoy the fruits of your labor and let others build upon your foundation. If the Linux community fights this, I'm afraid that they're going to be reduced to same scratching-to-stay-alive heap as Apple.
  • by AMK ( 3114 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:44AM (#1885273) Homepage
    I find more disturbing the fact that there are Linux exhibitors hiring models and cheesecake ads, both perfect illustrations of sizzle-over-substance marketing. This is particularly ironic for a Linux show; Linux has gotten as far as it has by being a better system, not by slick marketing.
  • As per IBM I spoke to a few of the IBMers who were at the expo. They all seemed pretty clueful and interested in it from more than the money perspective. Sure there are suits here and at any other company who look out for the bottom line but that's their job. We got plenty of techie people who run Linux inside IBM and they like it for the myriad of reasons all of us do.

    - Not speaking for IBM of course
  • by adatta ( 3240 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:51AM (#1885275)
    Lucky enough to be in Raleigh and get a free exhibitor badge from IBM I was there for a couple of hours and saw Rob and crew among other things. Nothing much interesting there, honestly, though it is good to see some varied support there -- including a company based out of my home town, Pittsburgh.

    It was funny when I actually met the guy behind linux.com and themes.org. Just another ordinary person. He seemed just as surprised when I told him I was the guy behind ML.ORG :)

    You can tell this is a low budget expo since things that most other expos give away the vendors were charging for. But if you looked you could still get a free t-shirt (I got one) and buy a nice one (I bought one) and also get a nice stuffed penguin for my wife's collection and several cool bumper stickers..

    And yoyos too..

    To those who aren't around I can't say you are missing much and I don't know if I'd pay $20 for the exhibition badge... maybe... I guess I'm just spoiled by attending PC Expo many years.
  • Bad spelling is the reason why we have spell checkers.

    No, spell-checkers are there to catch typos. If you don't know how to spell words, then you can't decide which, if any, of the spell-checker's suggestions is correct.

  • Aaargh! It's supposed to be free speech, not free beer!
  • Yeah, but when you only have one or two people at a booth (i.e. Trae McCombs being the main guy at the Linux.com booth) there's only so much wandering you can do at an Expo while simultaneously manning a booth. But if you want to visit /them/ you could always stop by and exchange a few sentences (i actually spent a few hours with Trae at LinuxExpo... really cool guy). On the other hand, it's one thing to never look /up/ when talked to.

    You're right that the Slashdot crew didn't seem to be all that mobile, and were pretty absorbed in their laptops: but Hemos was trying to fix the ad server, and I'm sure both he and CmdrTaco/Rob were trying to read the daily emails, and get some posts up, since the Slashdot community doesn't take kindly to a few days sans-(without)news.

  • The actual Palm ads might've easily been considered sexist, but this one is satire. It's making fun of the original, which you could logically conclude to be a good thing if you didn't like the original.

    That being said, Red Hat certainly has the right to decide how its image is used, and if it thinks the humourless masses will take it the wrong way (evidently quite possible), that's their call to make.

    TurboLinux has no such excuse for using spokesmodels, on the other hand, so bad karma in their general direction.

    Steve 'Nephtes' Freeland | Okay, so maybe I'm a tiny itty

  • Presumably, the original poster didn't want to pay any cash for it so here's a better solution [cdrom.com].
  • > If I was running the RedHatshow I would not sue,
    > instead I would seek revenge with a bigger and
    > better trick.

    Redhat isn't suing anyone. They just sent a 'cease and desist' letter. This is a long way from a lawsuit and they only want them to stop using their name and trademark, which could lead others to believe that this ad is actually for RedHat.

    Perfectly reasonable, if you ask me.
  • Again, Redhat has not filed suit, but issued a 'cease and desist' letter to LinuxCare.

    Very much within their rights and very mature.
  • by John Fulmer ( 5840 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:35AM (#1885283)
    Huh? In 1999 we got:

    -Linux 2.2 (this year)
    -New Major versions of every distro.
    -Loki Software and Civ: CTP
    -Mozilla will be mostly done by Fall, Gecko
    already kicks butt.
    -RealAudio G2 player (in beta)
    -Commercial support/investment/reaffermation from
    several large companies, including Dell, IBM,
    Oracle, Compaq.
    -StarOffice 5.x (and released as no-cost software)
    -Gnome 1.0 (this year)
    -EGCS as the standard compiler
    -WINE is going like gangbusters.
    -Linux is being discussed by people in suits as an
    option, whereas it was dismissed almost out of
    hand last year.
    -Many more things I am forgetting plus lots more
    to come

    And one note. Mozilla isn't a flop. The project has a really great CSS1 compliant engine (gecko), and it is on schedule. Plus several other companies besides AOL/Netscape have recently put programmers on it, and the number of 'outside' programmers is coming up.

    Remember, they threw away a LOT of the code and rebuilt the thing from scratch. It may be taking them some time, but when it is finished, it will be a VERY nice and accurate platform for Web based applications, as well as being a complete web browser in itself.

    Life is still good in the land of Linux.
  • I tend to agree. While it may (as a male) appeal to me, it is sexist. I'm not suprised when I see this stuff from the normal mainstream, but I am suprised to see it in a technical / geek commmunity. I find sexism to be nearly a non-issue amongst geeks, and it tends to be met with harshly when it does pop up in the community.

    Shame on you, linux care, for being sexist. Shame on you, redhat, for trying to scare people with legal action rather than acting like a mature adult (corporation).

    I would have nothing but freezing contempt for both groups if they went to court over this, and jeopardized the reputation of the linux on account of sexy models and bad advertising.

  • by Signal 11 ( 7608 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:08AM (#1885285)
    The original post about the linux care v. redhat seems to have disappeared off the main page. Anyway, here were some of the points mentioned before mysql nuked it:

    - Redhat has every right to be upset. If you saw YOUR name on promotional material before having a chance to look / approve it, you'd be upset too.
    - Linuxcare made some very kick-ass looking graphics, which everybody likes.
    - Various threats made about redhat being the next "microsoft" for sending the lawyers in.

  • The following is a list of items I would be grateful for you sending me:

    A.) A box from VA.
    B.) A Parallel system or two.
    C.) Some Slashdot Tee Shirts.
    D.) A Copy of RedHat 6.0 (I'd rather not pay $80)
    E.) One of those Turbo Linux models.
    F.) One of the Patmos Leather Couches (To go along with the Model, of course!)

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • Well, maybe all comments should require a Login, and include an option to Post "As Yourself, or anonymously"

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

  • Funny, it seems to me that we never go more than two weeks between announcements of some sort of Linux support from one multi-billion dollar company or another, Linux marketshare continues to climb at an astonishing rate, and even Ziff-Davis sometimes runs favorable articles about Linux. What more do you want?
  • This kind of thing is part of the price to be paid for linux's success. Redhat wants to be taken seriously by Those With The Big Money, and part of that is protecting their trademark. I'm not saying you have to like it (and I don't), but you do have to expect it.

  • All I want to do is present my ideas to you people.

    In order to effectively present your ideas, you have to be a good communicator. The unwillingness to take the time to spell correctly, or typing out "2" for "to", or "ppl" for people reduces the impact of what you have to say.

    Many simply won't bother to read such mess, especially when there is a glut of information to process. There are too many good ideas, and well presented ideas, to try to gleen nuggets of wisdom from things that are so difficult to read.

    If you don't take your words seriously, no one else will.

  • Sexism is NOT a non-issue among geeks. I have indeed
    had to deal with sexism among geeks. Classic example:

    http://x21.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=4558 65763

  • Disclaimer: I'm a female geek who works for

    There was a movement in the marketing dept to use
    BOTH the ad that was done AND one similar to what
    you proposed. I don't know why it wasn't done that
    way. But living in San Francisco as we do, it's a
    logical choice for an ad around here. :)

  • Speaking of keg... The best part of the LinuxExpo, by far, had to be the free beer. MMmmmm beeeerr...
  • Its not like he really left the room. Everytime I passed by their booth at the expo, he and his entorage of geeks couldn't seem to get away from their laptops. I'm sorry, but if you go out of the way to get a spot at the expo, and all you do is sit there on your computer, what good does it do you? I'm not singling out Rob and the slashdot folks, I also saw it from the linux.com folks. I didn't see Alan Cox sitting in a corner kernel hacking at the expo, he was walking about, talking to everyone, and having a good time.
  • They're all over the place...

    Try here [magenta-logic.com]

    (Fastest from UK).

    URLs pop up on usenet from time to time... checkout dejanews for an image near you.
  • I completely agree with the fact that the End Of Innocence is near. If I was running the RedHat show I would not sue, instead I would seek revenge with a bigger and better trick. Perhaps doing what Netscape and Microsoft were rumored to have done, Netscape developers stuck a big dinosaur on Microsofts campus entrance and Microsoft responded by doing the same type thing. This is good old fashion fun, and usually spurs competition. Too bad that with the advent of big investors all of these fun things will cease to happen. Its the way of the corporate people, ruining all the fun to make a little more money. Just my confusing thoughts, Sean
  • You just weren't here to watch them develop....
  • I'm just saying, give credit where credit is due! :)
  • I started this post to mainly point out that the "suit", no matter how great they are, are getting a red carpet treatment while the core of what Linux is and who got it there is being completely overshadowed! Really, I'm not wanting to take the wind off of the sails of the big guns, but it would be nice to recognize those developers who have always been behind Linux. If it weren't for them, Linux would not be the great operating system it is.
    Imagine a comic book or a car convention, where Pepsi had the diggest spot on the floor only because they had tons of money to blow..... And there's Todd McFarlene, sitting in the corner, smashed between the restrooms and the snack bar.
  • by Rahga ( 13479 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @12:06PM (#1885302) Journal
    Sometimes, I wonder why Debian, Slashdot, etc. are even invited to these conventions.
    Linux is still a "hot" name going around. But I wonder how many people at one of the "big name" booths, take IBM for example, even understand what's going on, what Linux is about, or have even used it for more than a 24 hour time period...
    I live down near Austin, Texas, where the only Linux-related convention is that thing ZD is going to put on later this summer. Admission is around $500, explaining Open Source software concepts to the suits.
    Wow. Closed doors and open source. What a combo...
    I enjoy working with Linux, doing my little projects, working on development software, submitting patches whenever I get time. But, lately (esp in the past year), everyone's been jumping on this bandwagon because it's what's "in". I believe most of the commitments made by the suits lately almost as much as you can believe that most men listen to Brittany Spears because of her musical talents.
    It's one thing to actually contribute to the movement. It's another thing to set up a front and milk it for all it's worth.
    Get off the f***ing bandwagon and try pushing it for once.
  • Well it's not true. Unless I passed out during the movie at some crucial point. Yoda is NOT annakin's father. "Luke: turn you to the dark side I will, yes."
  • Sigh. People tend to notice sex and violence. Would you have preferred violence? It's too bad, and a guy in a jock strap would have been a nice touch to add. (Probably would have worked too.)

    If you want to say this had nothing to do with what they were selling, well.. yes. But it had to do with who they were selling it to. They were selling it to people. Dogs would have ignored it.

    In a way it's like the joke about the mule and the two-by-four. First you have to get their attention. (But Red Hat *was* right to object.)
  • Sexism tends to be a non-issue among geeks basically *because* geeks are overwhelmingly male. I.e., there isn't much of anyone around to be sexist toward.

    This is a sort of apology. I'd do better, but I don't know how.
    Unfortunately, intellectuals tend ... I was going to say this as a generalization from personal history, but I'll rephrase it to be accurate.
    I experienced being shunted aside from the social scene, so I got even less practice at acting civilized toward women than other men. This tended to cause rage, which was surpressed because I was ashamed of it. There were times when it slipped past my guards. I hope I apologized sufficiently for those, but of course I'll never know. Some people have had a rougher ride than I did. I'm sorry, but folk are not basically rational animals. Basically they are mammals, and living in large groups with high technology strains their instincts. I'm relatively certain that the individual who circulated that letter would be ashamed of the action, if he could bring himself to look at it. Sanity is sometimes in short supply.
  • Its too bad that Linuxcare can't even come up with an original ad idea. This parody of 3Com's ad has been done long ago by Jason Kottke at www.osil8.com. He has been forced to remove the images from his site. But i believe there are plenty of mirrors, linked from his site.

  • Sheesh. Such negativity. I have no intention of ever switching to Windows. For me it wouldn't be switching back either, I've never used it on any of my own machines, and have only used it for work under protest.

    Why don't you check on Freshmeat and see if you still think we haven't gotten anything. There is tons of new stuff coming out all the time, and new versions of existing stuff coming out daily.

    I think it is way to soon to think that Mozilla or the Netwinder are flops. Despite JWZ's disenchantment with Mozilla, I still think that it will end up with us getting a great open sourced browser. Sometimes you just gotta have a little patience.

    As for multimedia formats, if they become anything important they will come to Linux. I am inclined to wonder how many new multimedia formats we need.

  • I went right from DOS 5 to Linux.

    I went from SunOS and MacOS to Linux. I was subjected to MS-DOS some at work, but I never really bought into it at home. I started out with the Apple II (back in the early 1980s), and started working with various *nixes (beginning with 4.2BSD on VAXen) in the mid 80's). By the time MS-DOS became very popular I was already learning UNIX, and in comparison MS-DOS seemed pretty pathetic.

    I still use Solaris 2.x and SunOS 4.1.x pretty heavily (I use Sparcs at work and also have a couple of old SparcStations at home -- but my primary home platform is Linux). I still have a couple of Macs, but they don't get used very much anymore, pretty much only for some occasional PageMaker use. The newest Mac I have is an old 68k based IIfx.

  • Did it crash on its own, or did the same rat-boy who was trying to flood this thread dig up some DoS scipt?
  • by lee ( 17524 )
    Well, if their advertising is geared to males, i will assume their service is and take my buck elsewhere. I will not buy into the excuse that just because most of the market is male the advertising will be geared that way. It would be too easy to do the other too. Or choose an add that had nothing to do with sex.

    This is especially nasty because this advertisig brings gender focus where gender really doesn't matter. Why bring it in at all and chance losing some market share? It gives me the message that women's business is not important to Red Hat or LinuxCare.

  • by lee ( 17524 ) <lee@@@pyrzqxgl...org> on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:56AM (#1885311) Homepage
    I am a female geek trying to decide which distro to go with. If i saw that simply supported ad and thought Red Hat approved, i would not choose Red Hat. I certainly would not use the services of a company that advertised that way. Not unless they had a hunk in a jock strap ads too :-)

    Red Hat has every right to say STOP THAT.

  • You also have to look at who you have to apeal to. 80% male 20% female... That's probably why they used females in the ad.. But I agree they should apeal to both sides of the game... But i'd radther not see linux ppl stooping this low to get a $ or 2. But that's not my choice to make, becuase I don't run them.. Thank god i'm starting a new distro that isn't for the buck... It's for linux advicacy and trying to include some radical ideas. That's my apeal, trying to add revolutional apps into the distro.....
    "Windows 98 Second Edition works and players better than ever." -Microsoft's Home page on Win98SE.
  • Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population, I believe you would be mad also. This isn't parody or fair use people. Its one thing to say Redhat rules/sucks/isn't as good at Debian

    But its an another thing to use it in a sexual derogitory way. I'm sure they meant it in good humor but redhat is most likly afraid people will assume the ad came from redhat and that thier anger over the ad will come back to redhat.
  • Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population, I believe you would be mad also. This isn't parody or fair use people. Its one thing to say Redhat rules/sucks/isn't as good at Debian
    But its an another thing to use it in a sexual derogitory way. I'm sure they meant it in good humor but redhat is most likly afraid people will assume the ad came from redhat and that thier anger over the ad will come back to redhat.
  • Why does it seem like 1998 was Linux's banner year and 1999 is the year everyone switched back to Win? In 1998 we got The Gimp, KDE, and Gnome, Enlightenment, Kernel 2.2, the NetWinder, Mozilla, Mnemonic, really groundbreaking ventures. In 1999, what have we gotten to parallel The Gimp? The NetWinder was a flop. Mozilla was a flop. Mnemonic vaporized. We got a few games but those quickly wore off. Meanwhile all these new multimedia formats came out only for Windows.

    In 1999 we got 2.2 (it came out late Jan IIRC), piles of proper companies supporting us, an enterprise class JFS, Gnome/KDE will become more and more standard, Mozilla proper will be released, Q3/Civ CTP the first commercial games EVER to be released (on linux) in parallel to the Windows versions and /. passed the 100 million hit mark, what more do you want :)

  • ...and Linux version of Quake 3 came out _before_ the windows version (well, the test did anyway, and it runs and looks a helluva lot better on Linux than Win32 on the same box!)

    The Linux version will ship the same time sa the winblows version (my local EB better have one waiting for me the day it is released!)
  • I was there yesterday, I registered (did I win) for a DEC Alpha Barebones system that was being given away. In fact, they were giving away one every 15 minutes! I believe it was the Linux Store (it is definitely the people across from Compaq allow us to play the Q3Test LAN they had set up). So there... some cool stuff was being giving away (you just have to win it =)

    Oh yeah, Alpha Processor, right next to Loki Entertainment, was also giving away a FULL Alpha system (just, though, folks).

    Yesterday was the first Linux conference I have ever attended, and I was pleased with its organization, exhibits, and conferences (the APEmille super-computer and the MOSIX cluster conferences were PACKED! You couldn't breath!)...

    Anyhow, just wanted to alert you to some things that the /. boys missed back in their booth. Its just too bad I have to work today =( and I have to go to Tennessee tonight for my brother's birthday tomorrow. Oh well... hopefully, next year I won't have these conflicts.

  • Is Slackware 4 really out now!?!

    Yay! 3.6 was really, really starting to show it's age. And I can't stomach what those other distributions have been doing to /etc.

    Or being hurled headlong into a maze during package selection with Debian.

    The Subgenius must have slack.
  • If you go into your account configuration you will see that you can easily set your account so you see no AC posts. Perhaps that would be a better thing to do instead of forking the discussion (like I just helped you do. yikes!)
  • >Red Hat is a trademark that they have to protect.

    There is a useful distinction between "protect" and "act like children".

    >The law, unfortunately, has not room for witty.

    This is false. Parody is specifically protected in the law. I grant that LinuxCare should have altered the logo in some way in order to qualify as "fair use", but RedHat needn't have jumped on it with all four feet.

    >And from the sounds of them, these ads do not parody.

    This is also false. They are very effective parodies of the PalmPilot ads.

  • >Well if someone created an AD that advertised your product in a manor

    Advertisements are out of place in manors, as any English lord could tell you.

    "Ads in the manor! Damned cheek!"

    >that you felt might get you in problems with certain segments of the population,

    Hint: As you grow more prolix, the weakness of your argument becomes more obvious, not less. LinuxCare's only obligation was to distort RedHat's logo in some way in order to comply with fair use laws. If they did, they're within bounds. If they didn't, they'll know better next time. However, it is not incumbent upon RedHat to bash LinuxCare for displaying a better sense of humor than you yourself possess.

    >I believe you would be mad also.

    You believe quite a bit about someone you do not know. Is that why they call you "Mindstalker"?

  • by The Welcome Rain ( 31576 ) on Thursday May 20, 1999 @11:30AM (#1885331)

    Red Hat suing LinuxCare? God. I know it's been said at many points during Linux's evolution, but for me, this is the end of the innocence.

    Commercial Linux distributions didn't bother me, since nobody violated Linux's GPL in the process. Fractiousness didn't bother me -- where's a programmer who won't argue? Non-open-source tools for Linux bothered me a bit, but I wasn't being forced to buy them and preferred the open-source alternatiuves on their own merits.

    However, the Linux community always had an appealing irreverence. People in general are far too serious nowadays; you can pretend to be serious, but you can't pretend to be witty. The LinuxCare spoof ads are witty. They should have been left alone.

  • While I tend to agree that sexism is a non-issue among geeks, I'm also a male. We aren't necessarily all that aware of this kind of thing. I wonder how many of you female geeks out there would agree with the premise that sexism is a non-issue among geeks?
  • From the Moderator Guidelines [slashdot.org]:

    Anonymity is important. If you go around telling people that you have moderator access, I'll remove your access. It is essential to the system that moderators don't operate for ego inflation or fame or to promote their ideaology. We must be fair or the system just won't work.

    Nuff said.

  • Huh?

    From that link:
    24. Red Hat 6.0 Official Release i386 Version SHIPPING $ 79.00

    I imagine (s)he'd also rather not pay $79.00
    Try this instead: LSL [lsl.com] - you only pay shipping.
    (We received it last week, and it's up and running, although pretty slow on a 233MMX w 32MB RAM).

  • Blink, darn...
    Uh, no not stupid or funny, just blind.


    Just remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. - SP
  • Red Hat is a big (well, in the context of Linux) company now. The developers are just a cog in the wheel. The management people, who are the ones who sick lawyesr and make big announcements, do not listen to the developers for this kind of stuff. Your post was quite the load of useless bits.


  • Boyz and Girlz:

    SUITS make the world go round. No one would have taken Red Hat seriously until money was thrown at it. Not everyone who uses Linux needs to contribute to the kernel. I'm glad that someone is trying to explain to the suits what open source is all about, because the sooner they learn, the quicker this movement will fly into high gear. We are in a grass roots movement - but it is currently only applicable to those who don't mind getting dirty. The great mass of people don't want to get dirty, they just want their lawn to grow green and fresh. Remember that and get off your technological high-horse. Thats why AOL and MSFT are technologically some of the worst, and monetarily some of the best.

  • To those who aren't around I can't say you are missing much and I don't know if I'd pay $20 for the exhibition badge... maybe... I guess I'm just spoiled by attending PC Expo many years.

    Maybe not, but it'd be fun to see all those companies pushing Open / Free software and hardware in one place.

    Despite claims to the contrary, I think a complete "typical user desktop" can be assembled right now - there are Free / commercial applications now for word processing, graphics, spreadsheets, etc. (When I say "typical", though, I do mean folks who use their computers as I observe *most* get used - as a typewriter, desk calculator, calander, e-mail and Web browser, doodle pad, etc.) ... and the momentum is in the right direction even for those people who do use bigger, more specialized tools under Micosoft OSes, or who are tied for the moment to closed software like MS Word for document compatibility.

    I bet the Expos for Linux will only get better (as in more luxurious, whether that means better for the avg consumer is a question I won't get into here!). It'd be interesting to chart the graphs of attendance, entry price, entry 'prestige', total money generated (tough to pin down), jobs gained, etc. at various Free OS expos now that so much is rolling in this area.

    I wish there was a market for ticket futures to Linux Expos, because I'd buy a few hundred entries ...

  • when i was training at redhat for the rhce, some of the devteam was jokingly trying to convince the other team members that something similar would be neat. at the time, it would have just been a topless woman supporting her chest with two red hats. "choose redhat for your support!"

    oh, how the mighty have gotten their noses pulled.
  • Hey, glad to see what you meant by your post. I agree with you: conferences like this should be legitimized by the amount of money and support they give to the people who actually started the movement and still support it on a daily basis. There should be a "Shrine to Linux" booth or something. :-)
  • But then again the conference IS in North Carolina..... Maybe it's best to keep it hetero-male so that there isn't a rush "Jesse Helms vs. Linux" resolution in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    How's about this. When a conference come over here to Sodom By The Bay, then you'll do one with the hunky guy.

    Gay geeks need soft-core ads too.......

  • Notice that IBM is offering support for Linux and Apache, that they're installing it at customer sites, supporting other players in the Linux space, etc. Their people tend to be very knowledgable, and when they don't know something, there is always somebody in their organization that does.

    Yes, there are some firms that are just jumping on the Linux/OpenSource bandwagon. But to say that all firms that don't have an exclusively Linux focus are just paying Lip Service to the movement is a bit of an overgeneralization. They support the movement in many ways, including making it acceptable for a bigger corporation to play around with Linux. IBM or another large firm using or supporting Linux gives the movement credibility in the eyes of the people with the money. Who's to say whether those people will actually buy their solutions from IBM, or from Debian? Once the movement is legitimized, brand name lessens its grip on the thoughts of the people with the control to help world domination.

    You can't expect a firm that takes in over $10bn a year in revenue to only sell Linux solutions, just as VA Research doesn't only sell Linux solutions (or at least they didn't....are they still offering Dual Boot systems?). Until World Domination (tm) is achieved, we need to make sure that the legitimization of the movement is one of the goals.

    And even if it isn't, as Linux is supposed to be a happy little community that accepts all comers, why are you harping on the fact that some of those comers have a money-making agenda?

    It sounds like your problems are more with those people setting up conferences and then charging exorbitant fees for them rather than with the big companies that are helping the movement along. I agree with you. But you probably wouldn't find much to do at a ZD conference anyway: it's by suits for suits. Head off to the Gathering or something if you want a more geek-friendly conference.


  • Seems to be a very cheap and simple advertising campaign - steal someone elses ad, and make a (not very funny) parody of it.

    Come on, there's got to be a million and one ways of advertising something as exciting as a real alternative to Windows - I can think of a few original ideas myself - and they don't have to include the word 'Microsoft'.
  • They were as refreshing sight. While linux has gotten where it is on it's own merits and not slick advertising, After three days of talks and tutorials I for one wished they were still on the show floor.
  • WHy did this EVEN HAPPEN? Is slashdot not up to standards of watching what is posted?
  • Wait you mean the Jack straps from Linuxcare arn't real? Man... I got riped

APL hackers do it in the quad.